“Victims of Violent Crime”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                        VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME56=======================================================================78                                HEARING910                               BEFORE THE1112                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT1314                                 OF THE1516                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY1718                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             FIRST SESSION2324                               __________2526                       MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 20252728                               __________2930                           Serial No. 119-373132                               __________3334         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary3536[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3738               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov3940                                __________4142                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4361-749                 WASHINGTON : 20254445-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4647                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY4849                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair5051DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking52ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member53TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York54THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California55THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee56CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,57SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia58BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California59LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California60JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington61TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California62BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania63KEVIN KILEY, California              JOE NEGUSE, Colorado64HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia65LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina66WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont67RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois68GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California69BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida70MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York71ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas72DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas73BRANDON GILL, Texas74MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington7576                                 ------7778                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT7980                 JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey, Chair8182BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas, Ranking83ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri           Member84DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida85BRANDON GILL, Texas                  HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,86                                         Georgia8788               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director89                ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director9091                           C O N T E N T S9293                              ----------9495                           September 29, 202596                           OPENING STATEMENTS9798                                                                   Page99The Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of the Subcommittee on100  Oversight from the State of New Jersey.........................     1101The Honorable Deborah K. Ross, a Member of the Committee on the102  Judiciary from the State of North Carolina.....................     5103The Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of the Subcommittee on104  Oversight from the State of New Jersey.........................    16105106                               WITNESSES107108Mia Alderman, Grandmother of Crime Victim109  Oral Testimony.................................................     7110  Prepared Testimony.............................................    10111Stephen Federico, Father of Crime Victim112  Oral Testimony.................................................    12113Justin Campbell, Officer, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department114  Oral Testimony.................................................    13115  Prepared Testimony.............................................    15116Michael Woody, Board of Directors, North Carolina Bail Agents117  Association118  Oral Testimony.................................................    16119  Prepared Testimony.............................................    18120Dena J. King, Former U.S. District Attorney, Western District of121  North Carolina122  Oral Testimony.................................................    25123  Prepared Testimony.............................................    27124Jeff Asher, Co-Founder, AH Datalytics125  Oral Testimony.................................................    29126  Prepared Testimony.............................................    31127128          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING129130All materials submitted by the Subcommittee on Oversight, for the131  record.........................................................    66132133A weekly crime report for Charlotte-Mecklenburg week ending134  August 24, 2025, submitted by the Honorable Alma S. Adams,135  Ranking Member of Committee on Education and Workforce from the136  State of North Carolina, for the record137Materials submitted by the Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of138  the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of New Jersey, for139  the record140    A report entitled, ``New Grassley Report Shows Biden DOJ Sent141        Taxpayer-Funded Grants to Soros-Backed, Soft-on-Crime142        NGOs,'' Jun. 5, 2025, U.S. Senate Committee on the143        Judiciary, Majority Press144    An article, ``Are FBI Crime Statistics Reliable?'' Oct. 9145        2024, City Journal146Materials submitted by the Honorable Deborah K. Ross, a Member of147  the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of North148  Carolina, for the record149    An article entitled, ``Two North Carolina cities rank among150        the safest in the country. Here's why,'' Sept. 15, 2025,151        News Observer152    An article entitled, ``As Mecklenburg weighs budget153        priorities, court leaders barely getting by ask for154        help,'' Feb. 19, 2025, Charlotte Observer155    A memorandum entitled, ``President Trump's Pardons Cheat156        Victims out of an Astounding $1.3 Billion in Restitution157        and Fines, Allowing Fraudsters, Tax Evaders, Drug158        Traffickers to Keep Ill-Gotten Gains,'' Jun. 17, 2025,159        Democratic Members of the Committee on the Judiciary160    An article entitled, ``The S.E.C. Drops Efforts to Recoup161        Funds From Trump Clemency Recipients,'' Sept. 19, 2025,162        The New York Times163    An article entitled, ``Trump Oversees All-Time Low in White164        Collar Crime Enforcement,'' Aug. 10, 2020, Bloomberg Law165        News Archive166    An article entitled, ``Exclusive: Federal drug prosecutions167        fall to lower level in decades as Trump shifts focus to168        deportations,'' Sept. 30, 2025, Reuters169    An article entitled, ``Charlotte light rail killing exposes170        gaps in NC's mental health system,'' Sept. 25, 2025,171        North Carolina Health News172    An article entitled, ``21st Century Red State Murder173        Crisis,'' Feb. 28, 2024, Third Way174    An article entitled, ``The Highest Rates of Gun Homicides Are175        in Rural Counties,'' Sept. 26, 2025, Center for American176        Progress177    An article entitled, ``The Trump Administration's Budget Will178        Undermine ATF's Efforts To Prevent Violent Crime,'' Jul.179        9, 2025, Center for American Progress180    An article entitled, ``What To Do About Crime's Persistent181        Perception Problem?'' Sept. 8, 2025, Jeff Asher, Substack182    An article entitled, ``Trump Defunds Effective Crime-183        Prevention Policies,'' Jul. 22, 2025, The Brennan Center184        Justice185    A report entitled, ``CMPD Quarterly Statistical Report: Mid-186        Year Crime Stats Show Promising Decline Citywide,'' Jul.187        17, 2025, City of Charlotte, North Carolina188Materials submitted by the Honorable Russell Fry, a Member of the189  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of South Carolina,190  for the record191    An article entitled, ``After 21 Years as a Defense Attorney,192        Byron Gipson Isn't Much of a Prosecutor,'' 2025, National193        Police Association194A report entitled, ``The Blue City Murder Problem,'' Nov. 4,195  2022, The Heritage, submitted by the Honorable Ben Cline, a196  Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of197  Virginia, for the record198199                 QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FOR THE RECORD200201Materials submitted by the Honorable Alma S. Adams, a Member of202  Committee on Education and Workforce from the State of North203  Carolina, for the record204  Questions for Jeff Asher, Co-Founder, AH Datalytics205  Questions for Dena J. King, Former U.S. District Attorney,206      Western District of North Carolina207    No responses received at the time of publication208209                        VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME210211                              ----------212213                       Monday, September 29, 2025214215                        House of Representatives216217                       Subcommittee on Oversight218219                       Committee on the Judiciary220221                             Washington, DC222223    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in224Room 1303, 401 West Trade Street, Charlotte, North Carolina,225the Hon. Jefferson Van Drew [Chair of the Subcommittee]226presiding.227    Present: Representatives Van Drew and Schmidt.228    Also present: Representatives Cline, Lee, Fry, Knott,229Harris, Moore, Rouzer, Edwards, Norman, Harrigan, McDowell,230Kiley, Ross, and Adams.231    Mr. Van Drew. The Subcommittee will come to order.232    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a233recess at any time. We welcome everybody to today's hearing.234Thank you for being here.235    A number of our colleagues on this Committee and from the236region have joined us this morning.237    Without objection, Mr. Cline, Ms. Lee, Mr. Fry, Mr. Knott,238Mr. Harris, Mr. Harrigan, Mr. Moore, Mr. Norman, Mr. Edwards,239Mr. Rouzer, Mr. McDowell, Mr. Kiley, Ms. Ross, and Ms. Adams,240will be permitted to participate in today's hearing for the241purpose of questioning the witnesses, and they each will242receive five minutes for that purpose.243    I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Brad244Knott, who will lead us in the pledge of allegiance. I will245then ask afterward that we all remain standing for a moment of246silence.247    Mr. Knott. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United248States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one249Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for250all.251    [Moment of silence.]252    Mr. Van Drew. Good morning, again. I want to welcome253everyone once again to today's hearing. I want this to be a254good and productive hearing. There are a number of us who are255going to be very candid, including some of the witnesses,256perhaps at sometimes blunt. I respect my colleagues on the257other side greatly. However, I fundamentally disagree with a258number of things that happened that have been highlighted by259the stories we're going to hear today. I do wish that more260Members from the other side of the aisle were here. I respect261differences of opinion, but I think you have to be there; you262have to be in the game. You have to participate. I appreciate263both of you for being here very much today. I know we're going264to have a continuing dialog on that.265    Today, we're here in Charlotte, North Carolina, but this266Committee--and I've been honored--has also been to267Philadelphia. We've also been to New York City. We've also268worked each and every day in Washington, DC.269    When we went to Philly, we saw a Progressive DA Larry270Krasner allow more than 400 murders to happen that year. His271office dismissed 70 percent--not 7 percent--70 percent of those272crimes.273    The Committee has been in New York City, and there we saw274DA Alvin Bragg let crime surge while he focused on politicizing275his office and on politics. He even tried to throw a bodega276clerk in jail that was defending himself from violence.277    Every time the Committee visits a new city when we do these278field hearings, which is a good thing to do, the story's the279same. The faces may be different. The accents may be different.280The city may look different. The same story: We're mourning for281innocent lives that have been lost, hearing from families who282have been shattered, have been broken apart, and have been283destroyed. There are no words we can say. We were talking about284it on the bus ride here, a few of us. When something like this285happens to a daughter, a son, a brother, a sister, a mother, or286a father, there are no words. There are no words that I can say287to some of the people on the panel today that ever make it288right. I know that. I never say, ``I know how you feel,''289because I don't know how you feel. I can never know how some of290you feel. I pray to God that I don't know how you feel.291    The latest name we speak of Iryna Zarutska, a young woman292with her whole life ahead of her--one who fled an actual war293zone to chase the American Dream. She wanted to be here so294badly--I think some of you may know--that when she was295murdered, her parents requested that she be actually buried296here in America because she loved America so much. What's297perverse about all this: It wasn't in the battlefields of298Ukraine where she lost her life. It was right here on an299American street in an American city.300    It's unacceptable. We're tired of it. We're sick of it.301It's sickening.302    Ladies and gentlemen, we don't have to accept it. It303doesn't have to be this way. Bad leaders let this happen. Weak304leaders. It's not just crime policy. I'm going to just--the305only time I think today--I am going to digress, but it's an odd306time in American history where we have some really bad307ideology, perverse and bizarre thoughts and ways of going about308things. Whether it was the open borders where we allowed--folks309will say, well, borders are always to some degrees were open,310and we had some illegals in this country. We never had illegals311who were also criminals, drug lords, drug dealers, murderers,312and people who assaulted other individuals on the terror watch313list.314    Whether it's children in our schools, I'm trying to paint315the picture of I don't understand what some of the thought316process is and what we're doing in our country when we say that317our children can work with politicians and administrators and318others to change their gender, to change their name, and to319change their pronouns. In foreign aid, when, around the world,320we're spending your tax dollars for transgender opera or drag321queen shows or bizarre studies around the world of prostitutes.322I'm not making this stuff up. That's the sad part. Men323competing in women's sports. None of that has specifically to324do with what is going on, what is happening here today. It325does. Because we're doing things to ourselves as a Nation. That326makes no sense to me. That makes no sense to most of the327Americans that I meet when I'm in any town, any city, or in my328home district. I just don't get it. It's just not natural.329    I have to ask, why don't, when we come back to what330happened here to these victims, why is it that some of these331leaders don't show more compassion for--they do show more332compassion for criminals but not the victims.333    Somebody came up to me, I was talking with them about this334very issue, regular constituent, and said, ``Why do we abandon335our victims but have heart and empathy for the criminals?'' I336didn't have an answer. What are we doing? I don't know. Why are337judges, elected officials, leftist nonprofits, and activist338groups doing all they can to make our streets more dangerous? I339don't know how else to say it. It's purposeful. It's not340accidental.341    Let's talk about why we're here. A magistrate judge let342this killer walk free, even after his own mother said he was343dangerous and that he was a real problem, and she was344concerned. His own mother. The magistrate judge said, ``Well,345this is the 14th time he committed a crime, but, you know, I346think it will be his last because he signed a handwritten note347that he's going to be good.'' Seriously? Are we serious about348that? You're looking us straight in the face and saying that?349You don't need a degree to know that it's absurd. You don't350need to be an attorney or judge to know that it's wrong. You351don't have to have a high-ranking title to know that it doesn't352make sense. All you need is common sense and empathy and a353heart and a desire to see this Nation to be the best Nation354that it can possibly be.355    He was allowed to walk our streets. Now, a young woman--and356there's other stories; it's not the only story--but this young,357beautiful woman with her entire future in front of her--working358three jobs, living the American Dream, believing in America--359she is gone. This hearing is not going to bring her back. Your360testimony is not going to bring them back. The good people are361here watching is not going to bring them back. There's nothing362we can do except to make sure that her life has meaning. If it363has meaning, it means we stop doing this, that we stop putting364bad people back on the street.365    It's something we can relate to because millions of366Americans around the country use transit every day. Knowing367Charlotte, there's a great group of people who are really368working here to make the transit even better and safer and are369doing wonderful things. We have to allow them to do that. We370need the laws. We need the judges. We need the attorneys. We371need the attorneys general. We need the prosecutors, the DAs to372do the right thing, to do their damn job.373    Iryna didn't even speak to this man. Have you ever seen the374video on it? It's sickening. It's heartbreaking. A young girl375kind of tired from just finishing an eight-hour shift. She376slips into her seat and doesn't bother anybody. I don't want to377say the word--this individual comes behind her and just thrusts378a knife into her and takes the life from her. She didn't379provoke him. She didn't hurt him. She didn't yell at him. She380didn't look at him. She probably didn't even see him. She was381murdered. It could be me, it could be you, and it could be any382Member on this panel. It could be your brother, your sister,383your mother, your father, your daughter, and your son. When you384think about this issue, think about it that way. Think how you385would feel if it was someone you knew and loved that was in386your family. We can't live like this. We don't want to live387like this, and here's the catch: There's absolutely no reason388for us to live like this.389    When we do this, what has happened in the past in this390incident and many others, it tells Americans one thing,391something they don't want to hear, that their safety and their392values come last. We must be tough on crime. I'm not talking393about minor victimless crime. What I'm talking about is cruel,394harsh assaults, murder, beatings, and the things we know that395are out there. Repetitive crimes over and over again. My396friends and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle like397to talk about gun laws--on legal people, legally owned guns.398I'm not going to talk about that today. This individual had a399problem with illegal guns. We all can agree on that and we400should crack down on those who steal guns or use them illegally401or who are criminals.402    Violent criminals should be behind bars. We've got to keep403them there. We've got to stop the cashless bail. We must put404good law-abiding Americans first. You know what? I'm going to405address something else. Because sometimes, when you say these406things--and again, when I got up here and when I got here, it407comes out of my mouth--you say these things, and somebody will408say to you, ``Well, that's racist'' or ``that's misogynist,''409or ``that's Hitler-ian,'' or that's all the other terms. I410can't even think of all the words that dictatorial--all these411words that are used. It's not.412    Because here's the deal: Whether you're an African413American, whether you're White, whether you're Asian, whether414you're Hispanic, whether you're gay, or whether you're415straight, damn it, you want to be safe when you go out in your416streets.417    Somebody called my office because they were complaining418about trying to crack down on crime in Washington, DC. There419were those that will tell you, ``Oh, there is no crime in420Washington, DC.'' I've had two people on my team in Congress421that have been assaulted. I know a friend of mine who is a422Congressman whose intern was killed. I know that--murdered. I423know that down within eyeshot of where my little apartment is424in D.C., two Jewish--beautiful Jewish young couple that left425the museum--were shot to death. I know that President Trump's426intern had the living daylights beat out of him. Don't tell me427there's not any crime in Washington. I've been supportive.428    You should be able to walk the Nation's Capital day or429night and be safe. This is America. You should be able to do430that. Somebody--you know how people call the office. We all do,431all the time, and you talking about the assault in my office.432They said, ``Well, that person from your office shouldn't have433been out at night.'' (1) It wasn't evening; it was during the434day. (2) You can; It's America and if you want to walk around435at night at the Nation's Capital in the evening, you damn well436should be able to. It's got to change. We must return to common437sense.438    I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. I know439this is not easy. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine.440Your stories are heartrending. You're going to share with us441what was terrible and, most importantly, what is preventable.442By your work, your faith, and your focus in being here, you may443save future lives, and we appreciate that.444    Their testimony is not just what happened to them; it's a445warning and a call to all of us to do the right thing.446    With that, I will yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. Ross.447    Ms. Ross. OK. Thank you very much, Representative Van Drew.448    Thank you to everyone for coming today to discuss these449important issues. I especially want to thank the witnesses who450have come to be with us today.451    Thank you to our law enforcement officers--you are the452selfless men and women in uniform, and you keep us safe every453day.454    I especially want to thank Officer Campbell for being here455and what he's done for great city.456    I also want to express my gratitude to those of our457witnesses who have lost loved ones to crime or who were victims458themselves. Your courage in telling your stories and having459your voices heard is so important, and my heart goes out to460you.461    Before I get started, I also want to express my deepest,462deepest condolences to the family of Iryna Zarutska. What463happened to her is simply unimaginable and unconscionable. I464hope that we will take to heart her family's request not to465remember her by her last moments or politicize her death but,466instead, to remember her as the vibrant and exceptionally kind467American she was. I'm thrilled that we have a picture of her in468that State right in front of us.469    Finally, we're here in North Carolina, and we had a tragedy470yesterday. I want to express my prayers and my absolute471heartbreak to the victims of the Southport mass shooting472yesterday. I know our Governor is there today, and I know our473hearts go out to the victims and their families.474    The Majority brought us here together, and I would say I475went to the Philadelphia hearing. I've been on the Judiciary476Committee since I was in Congress. To be honest and for our477victims, this hearing is too little too late. We should have478been doing more to prevent crime and address the lack of mental479healthcare long before this hearing. Particularly--480    Mr. Federico. Excuse me, this is my daughter. This isn't481Iryna.482    Ms. Ross. Oh, I'm sorry.483    Mr. Federico. This is my daughter.484    Ms. Ross. I am so sorry.485    Mr. Federico. OK? This is Logan Federico.486    Ms. Ross. Thank you so much for bringing that. Thank you.487Thank you, sir. I am so sorry for you.488    Mr. Federico. She was before Iryna.489    Ms. Ross. I am so--490    Mr. Federico. Four months before.491    Ms. Ross. I'm so sorry for your loss, and my heart goes out492to you. My heart goes out to you.493    Mr. Federico. How dare you not to know her.494    Ms. Ross. We should have been doing things to prevent495Logan's death and Iryna's death. I am so sorry.496    To my Republican friends, this is not Democrats' fault.497This is the fault of Congress and our legislature to not do498enough. They want you to believe that tough on crime and saying499``law and order'' is going to solve the problem. They want to500believe that a slogan will make America safe again. If that is501the case, why is the Congress cutting aid to local law502enforcement by a hundred million dollars next year? Why are503they proposing cuts to the Crime Victim's Fund? Why do they504want to slash juvenile justice grants and hate crime grants?505Why are they working to cut Federal support for survivors of506domestic violence, who I hear from every single day by almost507$100 million? In short, why, if they care so much about law508enforcement in North Carolina, are they trying to defund the509police and the FBI behind closed doors in Washington, DC?510    The reality is that these cuts undermine public safety, and511they don't give law enforcement the tools they need to keep us512safe. This isn't about an abstract budget line item. The513programs on the chopping block equip and train local police,514provide support to crime victims, and combat domestic violence.515I've got many of these grants for my constituents in law516enforcement in Wake County.517    Shuttering and merging vital offices within the Department518of Justice is not about fiscal responsibility; it's about519letting our people down. It's about crippling the very520institutions designed to combat the most severe crimes and the521most dangerous criminals.522    A weakened FBI has fewer resources to track and apprehend523criminals. A defunded ATF won't be able to track the flow of524illegal guns used to commit violent crimes.525    When you hear these familiar slogans, like ``Make America526Safe Again,'' I urge you to look not at what my colleagues on527the other side say but what they actually do. Cutting police528resources and defunding Federal agencies are not the policies529of a party committed to public safety. The consequence in this530country is that we are less prepared, and we were less safe. We531deserve better. Our police officers and prosecutors deserve532better. Our communities deserve better. Most of all, the533victims of crime and their families deserve better. If we want534to honor them, we should seek real solutions to prevent these535tragedies and not hide behind empty slogans.536    Since we are in Charlotte, and we were in North Carolina,537and you have a Representative from Charlotte and from North538Carolina, I have a unanimous consent request. I ask unanimous539consent to enter into the record an article written by Simone540Jasper entitled, ``Two North Carolina Cities Rank Among the541Safest in the Country. Here is why.''542    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.543    Ms. Ross. It notes that Charlotte is the ninth safest city544in the country, and Raleigh is the tenth safest city in the545country. While I'm honored to have the Judiciary Committee546here, I think that North Carolina, while we can always do547better, has done better than many of the cities that we have548failed to visit.549    Thank you, and I yield back.550    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now recognize551today's witnesses. We will start with Ms. Alderman, and then552we'll go right down the line. Thank you.553    Thank you all, again, for being here. Ms. Alderman.554555                   STATEMENT OF MIA ALDERMAN556557    Ms. Alderman. Mr. Chai and the Members of the Committee,558thank you for allowing me to speak today. My name is a Mia559Alderman. I am the grandmother of Mary Collins. Mary Collins.560    Mary was sadistically tortured. She was tortured. She was561brutally murdered in Charlotte, North Carolina, in 2020--this562is 2025 and a half. Mary was only 20 years old when her life563was taken in the most horrific way imaginable. She was564bludgeoned in the head. She was stabbed over 130 times. Mary565then bled out in a bathtub. All of Mary's blood went down into566the Charlotte sewer system.567    Mary was then wrapped in plastic and hidden inside a568mattress while myself and my family and then members of the569community tried to get to Mary. I myself was inside the570apartment yelling Mary's name. To no avail. We--I'm sorry. This571is very difficult.572    Mr. Van Drew. Take your time.573    Ms. Alderman. I have this written down, but as I sat here,574I decided that I needed to go a little further.575    Our families have now endured more than five years of576waiting, and still her case has not gone to trial. Five years577is not justice. Five years is torment. Every day of delay578deepens the wound for our family and makes a mockery of579accountability. What makes this even more unbearable is how the580justice system has handled those accused of Mary's murder.581Thank you.582    Two of them were released on bond--as if their crimes were583minor, as if they stole a candy bar or maybe broke in a car or584something. One in particular, her name is America Ray Diehl.585She remains free on bond today, despite repeated violations of586her curfew and ankle monitor conditions. She has faced little587to no consequence. We know she has broken curfew, left her588home, pushed the boundaries of the very system meant to contain589her. She basically thumbs her nose at it, which you can see for590yourself on the photos that she posted on social media. They591have now been taken down, but we have copies. Nothing's been592done.593    How can someone that is accused of such cruelty walk free594while we, Mary's family, serve a life sentence of grief? The595failures did not begin in the courtroom; they began when Mary596was killed. For days, family, friends, and the community597pleaded for help. Pleaded. I was pleading as Mary's--I don't598know the right word--Mary had a disability, an invisible599disability. If you're familiar with invisible disabilities,600that means that you can't really look at her and tell.601``Caregiver'' would be the right word.602    The police department and the detective would not603comprehend what I was saying about Mary and how these people604had her, and they were hurting her, and I needed to get to her.605It was long, and it was torturous to even get him to go through606that apartment door where she lay wrapped in plastic and607concealed inside a mattress. It was eight days since Mary left608home.609    When they brought Mary out, it was finally the night of610April 4th. She left the house on March 28th.611    The next day was Mary's mother's birthday on, April 5th.612That delay cost precious time, and it compounded the horror of613what we later learned had happened inside. I cannot say614everything that happened to Mary because, if I try to say what615happened to Mary, I will no longer be able to sit or stand.616You're going to have to use your imagination on that part.617    Justice delayed is justice denied, and time is stealing our618justice with a backlogged court system for murder trials, and619Mary is not the only victim.620    We're here because Iryna Zarutska was also brutally stabbed621and killed in Charlotte. She now brings us here today. The same622system that failed Mary failed Iryna. Our hearts are broken for623her family and her friends, and we grieve with them. We carry624the heavy knowledge of the continued agony--agony that they now625face. This is not just about two young women; it's about the626justice system in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, that is627failing the very people it's sworn to protect.628    We need accountability. We need reform. We need to ensure629that those accused of heinous crimes are swiftly prosecuted,630that they're not allowed to be released on bond and just live631their life. They get to go home and sleep in their own bed and632party and have Christmas. I wondered, when they released633America, did her mom get to smell her hair? Did she--did they634wrap her in a warm blanket at night? I think about that635sometimes. Mary being in the ground, in the ground, in the636ground dead. She was so decomposed by the time they got her out637of that apartment, that we never saw her again. We couldn't638look at her. I couldn't smell her hair, touch her face, or hold639her. I didn't know what to do. Was I supposed to wrap her in a640blanket for her to be buried? Or her siblings, they wanted her641to be buried in their favorite clothes. It was COVID. Only ten642of us could go to a graveyard. We couldn't have a funeral. Mary643had no funeral. No funeral. None.644    Her murderers have not faced trial. They've been out free645on bond. We had to go to a cemetery where there was a casket646that they told us Mary was inside. Only ten of us could go.647    They shouldn't be allowed to be released on bond conditions648where they violate the conditions of their release again and649again without consequence, which is what America Diehl has650done.651    The other one that was released on bond, James Salerno, has652since been taken back to the Mecklenburg County Jail.653Apparently, he was maybe too much for his mother to handle. I654really don't know. He's back in the jail now, but he was free655for two years.656    America has only spent a year in jail. She's been free for6574\1/2\ years. She continues to violate. We've contacted the658DA's office. We don't know if the judges know that she has659violated. She should not be just free. She never should have660gotten a bond in the first place.661    Mary was my granddaughter. Mary was my granddaughter. I am662sorry?663    Ms. Ross. No, I was just checking with the Chair about664something.665    Ms. Alderman. OK. I'm almost finished. She was a daughter,666sister, family member, and friend. She was vulnerable. She was667also full of life and trust, especially trust that was668betrayed. Her murderers exploited her trust. Our family has669lived in anguish for more than half a decade.670    While those responsible have still not faced a jury, I sit671before you today for Mary and for every family who has lost672someone to violence and then has been failed again and again673and again and again by this system that should deliver justice.674    I ask you to see Mary not as another case number but as a675voice calling out for change. Thank you for listening to me and676for recognizing the urgency of justice that has been denied for677too long.678    [The prepared statement of Ms. Alderman follows:]679    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1749.001680681    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1749.002682683    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. Alderman. Your testimony--I684don't even have the words--was riveting.685    We went over. In order that everybody can hear everybody--686we have a lot of witnesses, and we have a lot of Members today.687We have a five-minute rule. I am going to stick with that from688now on. That's not to be--that's not because of a lack of689concern or that we don't feel for what you're trying to say.690You can't do it in five minutes. I get it. I understand. Just691so that we can get the whole hearing done. We're only here692until I think it's 12:30 p.m.? At 12:30 p.m., they're going to693kick us out. For that reason. It's not me being mean-spirited.694OK. Thank you.695    Next, Mr. Federico.696697                 STATEMENT OF STEPHEN FEDERICO698699    Mr. Federico. First, I want to make sure you all know my700daughter. My daughter was Logan Federico. OK. Logan Federico.701She was in 2022, visiting friends at the University of South702Carolina.703    How many of y'all have kids? I'm just curious. Here is what704I need you to do. When I tell you this story, think about your705kids. Think about your child coming home from a night out with706their friends, laying down, going to sleep, feeling somebody707come in the room and wake them and drag her out of bed, naked,708forced on her knees, with her hands over her head, begging for709her life, begging for her hero, her father, me, that couldn't710be there. She was 5,3" and she weighed 115 pounds. Gone. Dead.711Gone. Why? Because Alexander Devonte Dickey, who was arrested71239 goddamn times--25 felonies--was on the street.713    How about that? How good are we doing for your family? How714good are you doing for your kids?715    He should have been in jail for over 140 years for all the716crimes he committed. You know how much time he spent in prison?717A little over 600 days in 10 years. He's only 30 years old. He718has committed 2.65 crimes a year since he was 15 years old.719Nobody could figure out that he couldn't be rehabilitated.720Well, you have to put him in prison to see if he can be721rehabilitated. Isn't that the idea of prison?722    No, my daughter wanted to be a teacher. She finally figured723it out two weeks before she was executed.724    I haven't heard a damn word from Byron Gipson in South725Carolina. Not one word. Four months, no communication. His726biggest concern was that he was pissed about my interview and727how I made him look on Fox News channel with Trey Gowdy.728    How pathetic is that, that we're letting our 22-year-old729kid--visiting friends--all she ever wanted to do was visit730friends. She literally was executed while on her knees, begging731for her life. Her name's Logan Federico--not Iryna. You will732not forget her. I promise you. You will be sick and tired of my733face and my voice until this gets fixed. I will fight until my734last breath for my daughter.735    You need to fight for the rest of our children, the rest of736the innocents, and stop protecting the people that keep taking737them from us. Please, you have the power. We put you in the738power to do what you have to do. We're asking you, we're739begging you all to stop this. Thirty-nine crimes in 10 years--74025 felonies. Can anybody here explain to me well how he could741possibly be on the street? Possibly be on the street? How is it742possible?743    I could sit down in a room, and I can explain the whole744process of how it failed; how South Carolina failed Logan, OK;745how lack of communication. What y'all did: You woke up a beast,746and you pissed off the wrong daddy. Because I'm going to put it747out there. I'm not going to be quiet until somebody helps.748    Logan deserves to be heard. Everyone on this panel deserves749to be heard. We will. Trust me. My daughter laid on the floor750for seven hours before somebody in that house recognized that751something was wrong. That career criminal, an hour later, went752on a spending spree with her debit card. When they saw his face753on a video, they didn't have to do a check. He was arrested so754many times, they knew who he was. They knew exactly where to go755get him.756    Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic that I am here today. Thank757you for your time.758    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. Officer Campbell.759760                  STATEMENT OF JUSTIN CAMPBELL761762    Mr. Campbell. Good morning. First, I want to say, for the763record, that I am not here to represent the Charlotte-764Mecklenburg Police Department. I am here to represent myself765and so you can get a clear view of what a violent criminal does766when he's back on the streets.767    On April 29, 2024, the Marshals Service was serving a768warrant for a convicted felon for possession of a firearm769again. While serving that warrant, four members of that--or770three members of that task force and one member of the771Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department were gunned down and772murdered that day, along with five others, including myself773that were injured.774    Now, that day was chaos. Responding to that call, multiple775officers, not only dead but injured, were taking gunfire from776an elevated position by a known convicted felon. During the777process of extracting the officers, I ended up breaking my778foot, which resulted in me being diagnosed with regional779complex pain syndrome. It's a miserable diagnosis, which led to780the amputation of my right foot. I will no longer ever be where781I was prior to that day.782    Now, in my hand, I will gladly submit this for your records783is his entire arrest report. In this report, it starts in 2009,784where he burglarized a residence with a stolen firearm. After785he was taken to jail, he was released where he can break in--786where he committed multiple other offenses prior to him going787to prison. He was released from prison and again continuously788committed violent crimes with firearms.789    Now, I ask you, why is it that we take people who commit790these heinous crimes, and we do not hold them accountable for791their actions? We sit there, and we try to give it a reason as792a mental health issue or some other type of issues that793realistically doesn't take blame.794    Now, the judicial system here in Mecklenburg County, I can795speak firsthand, is trash. I'll say it again over and over796again. I will take the repercussions of what comes next after797me saying that. The magistrate system here has no idea of what798they are doing. This cashless bail system is a joke. I believe799in my heart that, if you commit a crime against another person,800violently, that you should not have a bond--that you should801just sit in jail until your time comes.802    Now, there's a lot more than I can say angrily, but I'm803trying to swallow my emotions because I've seen multiple804committees such as this one, and words are exchanged, but805action never comes to it. I'm going to ask you guys, all of806you, to at some point look at us and look at the future807victims--because there will be more--and say, ``At what point808do we hold them accountable for their actions and stop playing809this political circus game?'' I will yield back the rest of my810time. Give it to someone else.811    [The prepared statement of Mr. Campbell follows:]812    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1749.003813814    Mr. Van Drew. I'm going to thank you very much. I'm going815to take a second just to say, I really do believe--and I do; I816wouldn't be here--that we do want to do something. This makes817me sick to my stomach. I'm angry about it. I haven't lost a818loved one. I can't imagine. The system the way that it's set up819makes it so damn difficult to straighten things out. That's820what each and every one of you are feeling. Because, by the821time you change magistrates and change Superior Court justices822and change prosecutors and change attorneys general--and I can823go on through the list--it doesn't happen in 1 day. I believe,824by the constant relentless pounding that we're going to give--825and we will support you shoulder to shoulder; I'll stand826anywhere--and I know this Committee, at least most of us will--827anywhere shoulder to shoulder with you and make sure you get828the support you need.829    It's not a political show. It's not just to get on830television, or whatever the hell it is. It's because I want it831to stop. Because I mean this. It could be my kid. It could be832my family, my wife, my--anybody, all of us. Everybody who's833here knows that intuitively. It could be any of us.834    It's not only you. You are not alone. We're sick and tired835and disgusted, and we're going to keep pushing on this and keep836speaking out. We think political correctness is bull. It's time837to do the right thing. Thank you.838    Mr. Campbell. Absolutely.839    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. Mr. Woody840841                   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL WOODY842843    Mr. Woody. Good morning. Chair Van Drew, the Members of the844Committee, thank you for holding this critical hearing in845Charlotte. I'm Michael Woody, North Carolina Chair of the846National Association for Bail Agents. I come before you today847not only as an expert on secure bail but as a lifelong North848Carolina resident, a father, a grandfather, a former law849enforcement professional who has witnessed firsthand how the850no-cash bail policies have devastated our communities and our851families. It's a shame that we had to wait until August 22,8522025, just five short weeks ago, that Iryna Zarutska, the 23-853year-old Ukrainian refugee who survived a war zone and fled to854safety in America, was brutally murdered on the light rail855system in Charlotte.856    Her killer was Decarlos Brown. He was a repeat offender857with 14 prior arrests and released, unsecured bail, cashless858bail on his own recognizance, earlier this year at that.859Despite concerns about his mental stability and his chronic860diagnosis of schizophrenia, he was still released with cashless861bail.862    The Department of Justice filed a Federal complaint on863September 9th, charging Brown with causing death on a mass864transportation system. They have elevated his charges to the865Federal level.866    Iryna fled the horrors of war only to lose her life to an867offender who should have been held accountable through secured868bail. This wasn't random violence. It was a preventable tragedy869and enabled by the reckless policies that prioritize offender870convenience over public safety.871    Here in Mecklenburg County, courts have embraced what they872call ``reform'': Unsecured bonds and taxpayer-funded pretrial873release programs. While studies show mixed results on874appearance rate, the fundamental problem remains: Unsecured875release removes the accountability that comes when families and876communities have financial stakes in ensuring compliance.877Meanwhile, stakeholders report ongoing cycles of missed court878appearances and rearrests. When offenders fail to appear in879court, the courts must continue their cases in their absence880and even sentence them in absentia, costing taxpayers enormous881resources while denying victims their right to provide impact882statements, such as you've heard today. Offenders with serious883mental health issues, such as Brown, are released without the884evaluation and treatment that could prevent these tragedies.885    These policies aren't just dangerous; they're expensive.886Mecklenburg County alone has spent $345,000 on local taxpayer887funds for new pretrial staff. They've wasted over $1.6 million888in Federal grants and at least $3.3 million in private889foundation money the county now reports $3.87 million total890they spent to put these offenders back on the street with no891accountability. That's over $5 million to operate a system892parallel to secure bail, which worked effectively and cost893taxpayers nothing and provided more security for families.894    This is the definition of government waste. Multiple895bureaucracies and millions of expenses to avoid using the896system that required no taxpayer investment. Every missed court897date delays justice for victims. Every repeat offense creates898new victims who should have been protected. Unlike States with899mandatory victim notification, North Carolina can leave victims900in the dark unless they go in themselves and sign up for the901North Carolina SAVAN Program, which is a victim notification902program. The victim has to do that themselves. That should be903done automatic by your local prosecutors or your local courts.904    Contrast this with secure bail where family and communities905are cosigners to create layers of accountability and906communication. When someone has financial skin in the game,907they ensure compliance. When release is free, accountability908and safety disappear.909    The evidence is clear: Secure bail enlists families in910ensuring court appearances while protecting community and911families, all without any taxpayer costs.912    Members of the Committee, North Carolina's experience913proves that compassionate policies that ignore accountability914are neither compassionate nor effective. You've heard that from915three prior witnesses today.916    Federal funding should strengthen systems that protect917victims and ensure court appearances, not subsidized failed918experiments to endanger innocent people like Iryna and these919lovely ladies here.920    I urge this Committee to stop rewarding failure with921Federal dollars, support North Carolina's bipartisan Iryna's922Law that targets these dangerous policies, restores923accountability, protects victims, and ensures justice and924fairness. Thank you.925    [The prepared statement of Mr. Woody follows:]926[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]927928    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. Ms. King.929930                   STATEMENT OF DENA J. KING931932    Ms. King. Good morning, Chair Van Drew, and the933distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for934inviting me to participate in today's hearing on ``Victims of935Violent Crime.''936    This testimony provided to you today is through my personal937capacity as a private citizen and native of this community and938based on my professional experience. My name is Dena King, and939I am an attorney. I have always known I wanted to be an940attorney because I wanted to help my community, serve justice,941and uphold the law.942    I spent 19 years, nearly two decades, as a prosecutor,943serving both as a State and a Federal prosecutor. I started my944legal career as a State prosecutor here in Mecklenburg County,945where, in addition to prosecuting crimes, I also worked in our946mental health and drug courts. It was within that role that I947saw firsthand the intersection between mental health and948substance abuse issues within our criminal justice system.949These specialized treatment courts demonstrated exactly what950long-term studies have shown that these courts significantly951reduced recidivism.952    As a Federal prosecutor, I was a member and leader of the953Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, formally referred954to as OCDETF, whereby, through prosecutions, I identified,955disrupted, and dismantled major organized crime, violent, and956drug-trafficking organizations. It was through this initiative957that I was able to prosecute some of our State's most violent958offenders, including members of a gang that were responsible959for committing several murders in North Carolina.960    What I soon learned, after those defendants were convicted961of racketeering murder charges and sentenced to consecutive962life sentences, is that victims of crime, the family members of963those murdered still need resources to help them long after964defendants are imprisoned. We need more support and funding for965survivors and victims.966    What I've learned as an attorney prosecuting cases across967this State, from the mountains to the sea, is that crime occurs968in every community. Crime of any kind is unacceptable. I969implore Congress to work with State and local government and970provide funding to community-based organizations to develop971real solutions to address these problems, solutions that972address the specific needs of each community, as a one-size-973fits-all approach will not work.974    Specifically, here in Mecklenburg County, funding is needed975to assist in increasing our prosecutor staffing levels, which976continue to lag significantly behind similar size977jurisdictions. The Association of Prosecuting Attorneys978suggests that, for a jurisdiction the size of Mecklenburg, we979should have at least 144 State prosecutors. Instead, we have 62980State-allocated positions and 22 additionally funded positions981through Mecklenburg County in the city, bringing that total to98284.983    The high case load of the prosecutors here results in984prosecutor turnover. The District Attorney's Office cannot985continue to do more with less. They cannot make more986prosecutions with less staff. They need more resources, more987funding, and more staff.988    During the last four years in my role as a Federal989prosecutor, it was, in fact, my priority to reduce violent990crime, to remove illegal firearms from our streets, and to keep991the people of the Western District of North Carolina safe.992    However, I recognize that my crime-reduction efforts need993to extend beyond prosecutions. We cannot arrest or prosecute994our way out of violent crime. That's why we need to be995intentional about also incorporating violence prevention996programs and intervention strategies, providing resources to997community organizations and stakeholders to work with law998enforcement and prosecutors in a shared commitment to making999communities safer.1000    The fight against violent crime isn't a fight that any one1001of us in this room can win alone. We must join forces--elected1002officials, law enforcement, prosecutors, community1003organizations, advocates, mental health, and substance abuse1004professionals to support each other's work.1005    Our joint forces are critical to our shared goal, which is1006to prevent tragedies and loss of life, to provide mental health1007and substance abuse resources to those in need, to hold1008offenders accountable, and to provide victims and survivors1009with the security and resources they need to rebuild their1010lives.1011    To be clear, addressing and developing solutions for1012violent crime is a nonpartisan issue because everyone in this1013community deserves the right to live safely. In fact, everyone1014in this community deserves the right to live. Thank you for1015holding this hearing, and I look forward to your questions.1016    [The prepared statement of Ms. King follows:]1017    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]10181019    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. King. Mr. Asher.10201021                    STATEMENT OF JEFF ASHER10221023    Mr. Asher. Chair Van Drew, Ranking Member Ross, and other1024the Members of the House, I am honored for the opportunity to1025talk with you today about our Nation's crime trends and how we1026can potentially drive them lower.1027    My name is Jeff Asher, and I'm a crime data expert. I have1028worked as an analyst over the last 18 years for the Department1029of Defense, Central Intelligence Agency, New Orleans Police1030Department, and your Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office.1031    In my role as the cofounder of AH Datalytics, I have1032created a project called the Real-Time Crime Index, or RTCI,1033which gathers crime data for more than 500 agencies nationwide1034to estimate national crime trends as they occur.1035    I'm here today to discuss the data which shows a sharp1036decline in murder and violent crime in America over the last1037few years. Acknowledging this fact does not deny the1038seriousness of these problems nor does it imply that they are1039solved. Even the lowest U.S. murder rate ever ordered means1040there were still 14,000 or so tragedies, like the awful murders1041that brought you all to North Carolina today.1042    Here is what the data unequivocally tells us about our1043Nation's crime trends. Murder in the United States fell at the1044fastest rate ever record by the FBI in both 2023 and 2024 on1045the heels of by far the largest one-year increase ever recorded1046in 2020.1047    For 2025, the RTCI sample of 562 agencies, covering 1161048million people, showed murders down 20 percent nationally1049through July, setting up the third straight year with a record1050decline.1051    Many cities are seeing historic lows in terms of murder1052this year. Baltimore and Detroit had the fewest murders through1053August since 1965; Philadelphia since 1966; and New Orleans, my1054hometown, since 1970, despite the horrific terrorist attack on1055January 1st there.1056    Chicago and New York City had the fewest shooting victims1057through August this year that either city has recorded in the1058few decades they had been tracking shootings.1059    Los Angeles had the fewest murders through June since 1966,1060and San Francisco had the fewest murders through August since1061at least before 1960.1062    The FBI has been estimating national crime rate since 1960.1063Tallying it all up with this year's decline points to the1064strong likelihood that the FBI will report the lowest murder1065rate it has ever recorded in the United States this year. That1066works out to roughly 8,000 fewer people murdered nationally1067this year than in both 2020 and 2021.1068    It's not just murder that is falling. Overall reported1069violent and property crime are both down double-digit1070percentage points in the RTCI.1071    The United States reported violent crime rate in 2025 will1072likely be the lowest reported by the FBI since 1968, and the1073Nation's reported property crime rate will likely be the lowest1074on record.1075    Violent crime, in general, and murder specifically, rose in1076North Carolina in 2020, like in much of the Nation, peaked in10772021, and have been declining ever since. North Carolina was1078one of 44 States in 2024 to report a drop in murder relative to10792023, according to the FBI.1080    Charlotte's trends are closely conforming to both national1081and statewide trends, having seen murder increased from roughly108268 per year on average between 2015-2018 to 117 in 2020.1083Murder's down eight percent statewide per the RTCI and down 251084percent in Charlotte this year, as the city has had the fewest1085murders year to date since 2018.1086    Violent crime in North Carolina is down 15 percent1087statewide and down 21 percent in Charlotte through July, per1088the RTCI. Despite falling in the last few years, statewide1089violent crime and murder remain elevated relative to the mid-10902010 lows. In North Carolina, they're well below where they1091stood in the mid-1990s.1092    Ultimately, the data is very clear about the direction of1093crime in the United States right now. Explaining why crime is1094falling is both quite challenging and essential to ensuring1095future reductions.1096    Any explanation must account for at least six factors in my1097opinion:1098    (1) The declines are occurring nearly everywhere in the1099United States with drops in every category of crime--all seven1100categories that the FBI measures in and all 11 population1101groups they measure in 2024.1102    (2) The declines began in 2023 and have accelerated in the1103two-years, suggesting the main causes--or at least the initial1104causes are rooted in investments begun in the 2021-20221105timeframe.1106    (3) Most medium and large cities have fewer police officers1107today than they had when murder began spiking.1108    (4) We have not fixed the supposed root causes of crime,1109such as poverty and lack of educational opportunities.1110    (5) The Nation has more guns in circulation now than ever1111before.1112    (6) Clearance rates for most crimes remain low by1113historical standards.1114    Acknowledging what is borne out in the data, a drop in1115murder and other reported crimes, presents a golden opportunity1116to better understand why this is happening. The critical task1117now, in my opinion, is to understand what is driving our crime1118trends down so that policymakers at the local, State, and1119national levels can have the tools to better bring about1120falling crime everywhere. Thank you.1121    Mr. Chair, I apologize, but I'm going to have to leave at1122noon to catch a flight back home.1123    [The prepared statement of Mr. Asher follows:]1124    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]11251126    Mr. Van Drew. Understood. Thank you for being here.1127    We are now going to ask you all to rise. We're going to1128swear you in. You're good. You rose to the occasion already.1129    Do you swear or affirm, under penalty of perjury, the1130testimony you have just given and are about to give is true and1131correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief,1132so help you God?1133    OK. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have1134answered--you may sit down--have answered in the affirmative.1135    Please know that your written testimony will be entered1136into the record in its entirety. If you weren't able to say1137everything you wanted to today, you'll have additional1138opportunity. Accordingly, we ask that if you do have written1139testimony, obviously, to please submit it.1140    With that, we're going to begin with the questions from the1141Members of Congress, and I will start with Ms. Cline. Is that1142good for you? I'm sorry. Mr. Cline. You will be second, Ms.1143Ross.1144    Ms. Ross. Yes. Perfect.1145    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Cline, we're going to start with you. Is1146that OK?1147    Mr. Cline. All right. That's great. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I1148appreciate you holding this hearing.1149    I want to thank our witnesses for being here. This is very1150difficult, and you are helping us to craft policies that will1151hopefully help victims because, ultimately, that's what we have1152to keep in the forefront of our minds are the victims.1153    We can get lost in the numbers a lot of times, but what we1154have to do is remember that each crime has a victim and each1155victim has to be remembered and have us stand up for them.1156    To the city of Charlotte, you have a problem. You have a1157problem here. You have a criminal justice system that is1158broken. I'm not just picking on Charlotte because we've been in1159Philadelphia in a field hearing, we've been in New York City.1160Any other large city across this country is going to have a1161similar problem.1162    I'm from the Commonwealth of Virginia, just to the North.1163You could go to Richmond, you could go to Norfolk, you could go1164to Fairfax, you're going to see similar problems. They all have1165a broken justice system.1166    You have to have three parts of your system working1167together for there to be accountability. You have to have law1168enforcement, who do fantastic jobs arresting and charging; you1169have to have prosecutors, who do amazing jobs--I was a line1170prosecutor at the county level right out of law school--who, by1171and large, do amazing jobs trying to prosecute these cases; and1172you have to have judges who are willing to convict and to1173sentence these criminals. Without all three working together1174aggressively, you're going to have a broken criminal justice1175system.1176    Serving as a local prosecutor, like many on this Committee1177right now, we have seen--we've gone in for bond hearings in the1178morning and had these criminals come in. You look at three1179factors. You look at their criminal history, you look at1180whether they're going to be a danger to the community if they1181are given a bond, and you look at whether they're going to1182abscond and flee.1183    If any of those are a possibility, you argue against bond.1184If a judge thinks that any of those are a likelihood, you deny1185bond, and you hold them.1186    We also had 287(g) agreements where, if this offender was1187an illegal immigrant, they were held until their case was1188finished and then ICE could pick them up. We need, as Federal1189officials, to put in place mandatory 287(g) agreements so that1190every jail has to hold on to these illegal aliens until they1191can be picked up by ICE and deported.1192    We've got a broken system because not all of these parts1193are functioning together. In Virginia, we had laws on the books1194that were presumptions against bond. If you came in and you1195were charged with a certain offense, it was presumed you didn't1196get a bond, and it was up to the defense attorney to actually1197argue to overcome that presumption and get you a bond. More1198offenders were kept in jail pending their trial and, after1199conviction, were held for sentencing and then were sentenced1200aggressively.1201    Then we had a legislature that flipped, and we had a1202Democrat legislature and a Democrat Governor get rid of the1203presumptions and reinstate parole. We had the lowest recidivism1204rate in the country in Virginia, and that's gone.1205    Now we have cities, we have counties, like in Fairfax,1206where we have a prosecutor, Soros-backed prosecutor, who is1207actually treating illegal immigrants better than Americans,1208defendants. We have a problem right in our own Commonwealth.1209    Yes, there are solutions that have to happen on the local1210level; yes, there are solutions that have to happen on the1211State level. At the Federal level, I believe about 50 of the1212local prosecutors here in Charlotte are federally funded.1213    Well, let me say this. As a Member of the Appropriations1214Committee, we need to start tying the money for these1215prosecutors to the laws that are on your books and making sure1216that you actually impose some accountability here in Charlotte,1217make sure that you have the policies in place to make sure that1218justice is done, and that these policies are not ignored by the1219judges, ignored by the prosecutors, but are actually taken1220seriously.1221    As an appropriator, I'm going to take that back. I'm going1222to take your stories back to Washington, and I'm going to fight1223for the victims that suffered so tragically as a result of1224these crimes.1225    I want to thank you all for your time, and I yield back.1226    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Cline. Ms. Ross, the1227gentlelady from North Carolina.1228    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chair Van Drew. As a former member of1229the general assembly and also a former transit attorney, I have1230been an advocate for additional resources for safe transit, for1231mental health, for victims, and for law enforcement for1232decades. In fact, the district attorney here, Spencer1233Merriweather, has also been sounding the alarm for years about1234the chronic lack of funding his office has received from our1235State legislature.1236    As we heard from Ms. King, he currently has 84 full-time1237assistant district attorneys in his office, many of them1238locally funded. For a city the size of Charlotte, the standard1239says that he should have at least 144 prosecutors to handle the1240caseload.1241    This chronic underfunding by the State legislature leads to1242incredibly high caseloads for ADAs in his office, which, in1243turn, leads to high turnover and not moving cases quickly1244enough. The State allocation for the Mecklenburg DA's office1245has only increased by a single prosecutor since 2010 despite a124620 percent growth in Charlotte's population since then. Between12472010 and 2020, the legislature only added 31 more prosecutors.1248    We're glad that the State legislature just decided to1249include additional funding for ten more, but clearly1250Mecklenburg County needs more than that. I would also say Wake1251County while I'm here advocating for them.1252    Ms. King, given the lack of resources the State legislature1253has provided to the Mecklenburg DA's office, we're left hoping1254that the Federal Government will help pick up some of the1255slack--Mr. Cline--and yet, the Trump Administration has clawed1256back or sought to cut hundreds of millions in funding for1257Federal law enforcement assistance, substance abuse treatment,1258crisis intervention, domestic violence, crime victim1259assistance, and more.1260    Can you speak about how ripping away these essential1261resources for State and local governments is not just an1262abstract budget item, but has a real-world effect on this1263community?1264    Ms. King. When we talk about resources, less does not1265equate to more. In fact, many of us in our own general lives,1266we say, put your money where your mouth is. Show me where1267you're spending your money, I'll show you what priorities are1268important to you.1269    These offices, whether we're talking about law enforcement,1270whether we're talking about prosecutor offices, or whether1271we're talking about community organizations, they are doing the1272work and will continue to do the work. However, they're already1273strapped with trying to prioritize what initiatives do they put1274up first. Is it training? Is it personnel? Is it equipment?1275    When the funding is either reduced or cut back or1276diminished, that adds additional strains on these organizations1277to truly figure out how to best serve. To be clear, these1278offices have the goal of public safety in mind. However, being1279able to have sufficient resources to do that great work is1280vital to the boots on the ground, which are the local1281communities that are doing that work.1282    Ms. Ross. As a followup to that you have a group of1283concerned Congresspeople here, including many from North1284Carolina. Can you tell us what--because you've been both a1285State prosecutor and a Federal prosecutor, what we in North1286Carolina should be advocating for our communities?1287    Ms. King. More funding. More funding to law enforcement,1288more funding for prosecutor offices.1289    One example that I'll give you is any time a prosecutor's1290office, for example, is strapped with resources, they are1291having to decide whether or not to maybe fill vacant positions.1292We're talking about unfunded positions, filling vacant1293positions.1294    If those vacant positions remain vacant, that's more work1295that has to then be shared among the prosecutors that are in1296the office. That leads to prosecutor turnover, it leads to1297prosecutor burnout.1298    What I would ask Members of Congress to do is to really1299look at providing more resources, more funding, in particular,1300to our law enforcement agencies, to our prosecutor offices, and1301also to our community organizations that provide supplemental1302support for those.1303    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much.1304    Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent request. I ask for1305unanimous consent to enter into the record an article titled,1306``As Mecklenburg Weighs Budget Priorities, Court Leaders Barely1307Getting By Ask For Help,'' dated February 18, 2025.1308    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1309    Ms. Ross. Thank you. I yield back.1310    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. I'm going to claim my time. I just1311have a few thoughts here, so bear with me.1312    Some words were mentioned about the Crime Victims Fund and1313cuts and so forth. Let me just point out that this fund was1314down, actually, during the Biden Administration because they1315failed to collect so many fines against criminals. Good to1316know.1317    Some grant money was pulled from certain NGOs, not-profits,1318and I'm going to tell you why. Because they were spending1319money--it's important to realize here, money matters. Ms. King,1320you're right. Money matters. If you're spending the money on1321the wrong stuff over and over again and continuing bad policies1322over and over again, the money doesn't matter. In fact, maybe1323the money hurts because you're pushing these philosophies and1324these standards and what's happening in our country down1325everybody's throat, and you got the money to do it. That's not1326always a good thing.1327    More money to really enforce the law? Absolutely. I know1328Mr. Cline well, and I know that he will fight for that. We have1329to do the right thing.1330    Some of these we're funding to groups and NGOs that were1331pushing the exact opposite what the Majority of you want and1332the vast Majority of Americans want. Just a few questions here1333that I had.1334    Mr. Federico, I'm sorry. I don't have the words. I'm not1335going to pretend to have the words. A simple answer is what I1336need because I want to make sure that we crystallize this.1337    Should your daughter's murderer have been released so many1338times?1339    Mr. Federico. Absolutely not.1340    Mr. Van Drew. Crystal clear, right?1341    Mr. Federico. Crystal clear. Couldn't be any clearer.1342    Mr. Van Drew. Yes, exactly. If we had more money, she still1343would have been released if we had the same policies. That's1344the point. It's not the money.1345    Mr. Federico. It's bad decisions.1346    Mr. Van Drew. Yes. Mr. Campbell, where are you? There you1347are.1348    The assaults and the murders, what happened to you, what1349happened to your colleagues, what happened to those that are1350trying to keep us safe, and what's happening to much of the1351American public are bad judges, bad magistrates, bad1352prosecutors, bad laws, bad attorneys general, letting people1353out too early, is that the root cause of the problem?1354    Mr. Campbell. Yes.1355    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Campbell. I appreciate it.1356    Mr. Woody, bail, could we, in your estimation, have saved1357lives if we had gotten rid of cashless bail and used secure1358bail, a bail that was secured?1359    Mr. Woody. Absolutely.1360    Mr. Van Drew. Again, crystal clear, right?1361    Mr. Woody. Crystal clear. Secured bail--interacts with the1362families of the defendants.1363    Mr. Van Drew. Nothing really complicated. Thank you.1364    Mr. Asher, you indicated that the crime rates drop, lowest1365levels, nothing has happened to anybody. I say this1366respectfully. I'm not picking on you. I appreciate you being1367here.1368    Man, talk to these people. You want to come to my district;1369I'll introduce you to a whole lot of folks that don't feel that1370way. Walk the streets of some of these cities. D.C.--I told you1371the stories before--I've got an office there, and two--not one,1372but two of my people in my office have been victimized; a1373Member of Congress' intern was murdered. People have been1374killed and beaten and hurt.1375    It depends on how statistics are compiled. Statistics don't1376always tell the story. Quite frankly, statistics always aren't1377accurate. Are we indicting everybody we should? Are we1378convicting everybody we should? Are we releasing more people1379than we should? That all affects those statistics. I just1380wanted to say that to you.1381    There's concern--and I'm a Second Amendment guy, but I1382don't want to get into guns here. We're going after people1383legally who have guns and think that's going to cure the1384problem.1385    How about the bad people who have committed felonies over1386and over that are released again, and some of those felonies1387involve guns? Shouldn't they be incarcerated? That's clear. You1388should agree with that whatever side of the aisle, whether1389you're liberal, conservative, or whatever.1390    It's kind of the same theme. It's the same story. I just1391wanted to touch base on those few issues.1392    Ms. Alderman, with you, do we need more accountability--1393just give me a yes or a no or maybe a few words--in our system?1394Do we need more accountability?1395    Ms. Alderman. We don't have any accountability, so any1396little bit more would be great, thank you, yes.1397    Mr. Van Drew. Do you believe that criminals should be1398released unsecured--with unsecured bond or no bond at all?1399    Ms. Alderman. Of course not. They shouldn't be released1400with bond if they are charged with first-degree murder.1401    Mr. Van Drew. Absolutely. I agree with you. Imagine, we're1402releasing folks with no bond or unsecured bond, even worse. I1403agree with you.1404    Ms. Alderman. Sir, I do not have to imagine. I live here in1405Charlotte.1406    Mr. Van Drew. I know. Thank you. Let me just ask you a1407question because you're a very outspoken lady, and then I will1408be done.1409    You heard Mr. Asher say that everything is pretty good,1410crime rate is down, the record lows, no problems, and everybody1411is happy. Is that your--you live in Charlotte. Is that your1412perception?1413    Ms. Alderman. Absolutely not. I've lived in Charlotte back1414and forth during my life since I was six years old, and I'm 64.1415I have a very good chronological memory of Charlotte and of the1416crime. Just since Mary was murdered five years ago in 2020--and1417she was one of those highest statistics in 2020--the crime,1418it's just--it's outrageous. Every single morning when you wake1419up, someone has been murdered, shot and killed or murdered in1420some other way. Other crimes that involve knives, axes, and1421these types of things.1422    It depends on your perspective. If you want to look at1423figures all day long, then you're going to have--I'm not a1424mathematician or that type of analytical person. I'm telling1425you I don't feel safe.1426    Mr. Van Drew. I know that you aren't. I know that you are.1427The last thing I would say--and, again, respectfully, Mr.1428Asher--I have a rule when people are talking about what people1429are thinking in politics, public policy, and government, to1430come walk the streets, walk the streets with me. You should1431walk the streets with these people and talk about what's going1432on out there.1433    I don't know what your numbers are, but I think a lot of us1434know what's going on.1435    With that, I want to recognize--who do we have here? Ms.1436Adams from North Carolina.1437    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me, first, thank you1438to the Committee for having me be here today. I don't sit on1439this Committee, but I am a resident of Charlotte, and I1440represent this district.1441    Before I begin, though, I would like to just take a moment1442to thank all the witnesses for being here and to say that my1443heart and compassion goes out to each of you on the loss of1444your granddaughter, your daughter, and for your colleagues at1445the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, and thank you for1446your service there.1447    I'd also like to extend my condolences to the family and1448the friends of Iryna Zarutska on this tragic murder. It was1449senseless, and certainly, we're continuing to hold all you in1450your prayers.1451    No one should feel unsafe in their community or in their1452home. Senseless acts of violence have no place in our society,1453and they must be met with a commitment to creating safer1454communities for everyone. All perpetrators of violent crimes1455must be held accountable, and they must pay their debt to1456society to ensure that justice is served and to protect our1457communities.1458    I'm a little disappointed, Mr. Chair, that my colleagues1459here are politicizing the pain under the guise of seeking1460justice when, really, I think there's an eye on this open sea.1461That's the real prize. I'm going to just be honest, that's how1462I am.1463    This is why we're here even though we should be in1464Washington trying to make sure the government stays open. The1465hearing for me is not really about public safety; it's about my1466colleagues trying to paint Democrats as soft on crime--and1467we're not--and engaging in political theater, probably to score1468some headlines.1469    Now, we don't need to try to distract the American people1470to cover up our own failure that we have not had the real1471solutions and while we've refused to equip local government1472with the funding and the resources that they need to keep1473communities safe. We've heard that here. Public safety1474transcends politics.1475    That's why Congress in 2022 passed the Bipartisan Safer1476Communities Act, signed into law by President Biden. It was the1477first major Federal gun safety legislation passed in 30 years.1478I'm hoping that we can continue to do some bipartisan things1479that will really help our communities and the victims that are1480here and their families to solve some of the problems because1481there's still a lot to be done.1482    It was a promising first step. However, President Trump is1483now defunding the programs that that bill created, cutting off1484resources for school safety, for community violence1485intervention and crisis response, for mental health services.1486These are proven community-driven strategies that save lives.1487Gutting them doesn't make us safer; it puts more of us at1488greater risk of violence.1489    Over the past several years, local officials in Charlotte1490have been committed to making the city a safer place, and I1491commend the council and those who have been working to do that.1492This year, the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department's1493midyear public safety statistics show violent crime is down 251494percent, including a 29 percent reduction in homicides.1495    The city council and the Metropolitan Transit Commission1496here in Charlotte have doubled the number of Charlotte area1497transit system security personnel. Since 2022, they have more1498than tripled their security budget from $5.8-$18 million a1499year.1500    Now, I want to say I served 20 years in the North Carolina1501House with the Congresswoman here, and I understand the1502budgetary concerns that they have as well. In the last several1503weeks, responding to the first homicide, the first homicide--1504any homicide is bad, but the first one on the Blue Line in its1505entire 18 years of running, local officials have taken1506additional steps to enhance security in Charlotte's Blue Line.1507    Governor Stein's budget also has called for more funding to1508address law enforcement vacancies and to ensure that we're1509hiring more well-trained police officers to keep our1510communities safe.1511    As we are joining this hearing today, I hope that we will1512take a comprehensive approach to our conversation around public1513safety. That includes talking also about mental health.1514    A report released by the Department of Justice's bureau1515found that nearly two in five people who are incarcerated have1516a history of mental illness. The 7.5 people will lose Medicaid1517coverage under this next decade if this big ugly bill, that's1518called the beautiful bill, it's going to hurt a lot of1519beautiful people if it stays.1520    Medicaid is the single largest payer for mental health in1521the U.S., and we've got to make sure that people's health is1522cared for.1523    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me just say public health is1524public safety. I appreciate the opportunity to be here, and I1525yield back.1526    Mr. Van Drew. Thank the gentlelady. I will now recognize1527Mr. Kiley of the great State of California.1528    Mr. Kiley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses1529for the incredible courage that you've shown in sharing with1530America the heartbreak and horror that you've endured.1531    Please continue to advocate. Yours are the most powerful1532voices in trying to prevent other parents and grandparents from1533experiencing the horror and heartbreak that you have. We will1534never be able to fully eradicate crime from our communities,1535but we can reduce those crimes that result from failed1536politics, from radical ideologies, from insane policies.1537    The reality is that far too many tragedies of the kind that1538we've heard about today are preventable if we just had a little1539more common sense when it comes to public safety.1540    In jurisdictions like this one and far too many places1541across this country, the sense that crime is just a fact of1542life has become far too entrenched; that this is just the way1543it has to be. A sense of political complacency has sunk in, to1544the point that, according to the latest State of Safety survey1545from the organization SafeWise, half of Americans do not feel1546safe in their own communities.1547    This is true--more true nowhere else than in my own State1548of California where, according to the same survey, 64 percent1549of Californians feel a high daily level of concern for their1550safety, which is the highest of any State in the Nation.1551Seventy-two percent of Californians say they are highly1552concerned about violent crime happening to them, also the1553highest of any State in the country.1554    This is not just an abstract issue. These are the vast1555Majority of people saying that they've heard about the sort of1556horrors that we've heard about today, and they fear that it1557could happen to them or to someone they love.1558    This sense of lawlessness is seen in the ordinary1559conditions of life for people as well. In Los Angeles, the1560police chief has advised people, do not wear your jewelry when1561you go outside. People have to walk through homeless1562encampments on their way to work with all manners of drug use1563and other unlawful activity.1564    You walk into a CVS or a basic store, and your shampoo and1565conditioner are under lock and key because theft is so rampant.1566We see that in Washington, DC, as well. You will probably see1567it here in Charlotte.1568    In fact, in my own State of California, we just had an1569incident two weeks ago where, in apparently an act of1570politically motivated violence, an individual fired three shots1571into a local news organization, and he was at large for some1572time, and then we all breathed a sigh of relief when he was1573apprehended.1574    Thankfully, no one was hurt. The shots didn't hit anyone.1575Then, he was immediately released, a man who just fired three1576shots into a news studio. Fortunately, there was a Federal1577nexus, the FBI apprehended him soon after that.1578    This is the core of the problem. It's criminology 101, that1579the best deterrent against crime is the certainty of1580punishment. The way that many of these jurisdictions are set up1581is there's various dimensions to the criminal justice system1582that undermine the certainty of punishment.1583    If you're a criminal committing even a very serious crime,1584you probably think there's not a very good chance you're going1585to get caught because the police departments are understaffed,1586and they've been defunded. Then, even if you do get caught,1587there's a good chance you won't be prosecuted because you have1588these rogue district attorneys who don't prosecute crime.1589    Then, even if you do get prosecuted, there's a pretty good1590chance you'll be let out on pretrial release on bail or even1591maybe on unsupervised release without bail. Even if you are1592convicted, then the punishments are so weak that it really1593won't be much of a punishment at all.1594    The good news is public opinion has turned sharply against1595these sorts of radical policies that have gotten us to this1596point. Even in California last year, Californians passed a1597proposition to make a crime illegal again by restoring1598appropriate consequences that passed with almost 70 percent of1599the vote despite opposition from the Governor and the political1600establishment.1601    We also saw some of these reckless district attorneys in1602our State removed from office. Because of that, we've actually1603seen a modest improvement in crime that is starting to be felt1604in our State.1605    Mr. Chair, this is precisely the time when we can say--and1606we've seen it in Washington, DC, by the way, where we have a1607controlled experiment going on where you can at least turn a1608couple of the levers to increase the certainty of punishment,1609and what do you know, crime goes down.1610    That we need to use that as an example for how we can bring1611public safety to communities across this country, and that1612starts, by the way, first and foremost, with supporting our law1613enforcement. Thank you to all the law enforcement with us here1614today.1615    I yield back.1616    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Kiley.1617    Ms. Ross. Mr. Chair, I have three unanimous consent1618requests.1619    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a memo1620from the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee1621titled, ``President Trump's pardons cheat victims out of an1622astounding $1.3 billion in restitution, fines allowing1623fraudsters, tax evaders, drug traffickers to keep ill-gotten1624gain.''1625    An article entitled, ``SEC Drops Efforts to Recoup Funds1626from the Trump Clemency Recipients,'' dated September 19, 2025,1627from The New York Times.1628    An article titled, ``Trump Oversees All-Time Low in White1629Collar Crime Enforcement,'' dated August 10, 2020, from1630Bloomberg.1631    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1632    Mr. Edwards. Mr. Chair, I object. I fail to see the1633relevance of any of those documents to this hearing and the1634life of Iryna Zarutska.1635    Mr. Van Drew. I do thank the gentleman, but it has been the1636past practice and policy on both sides of the aisle as far as1637entering something into the record, and I understand. When you1638speak--and you're going to have your opportunity--you'll be1639able to voice that objection and why. Thank you.1640    Mr. Edwards. OK.1641    Ms. Ross. Just a point of clarification. All that money1642would go into the Crime Victims Fund. That money would go1643directly to victims of Federal crimes. By not recouping that1644money--1645    Mr. Edwards. Chair, is Ms. Ross recognized?1646    Mr. Van Drew. No. I'm being lenient here. I got this1647problem, I always like to be a nice guy, but there's a point1648where for us to move on--and, again, you'll have your chance to1649speak--you'd have to withdraw that objection or else we'll have1650to vote on it.1651    Mr. Edwards. I'll withdraw it.1652    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman. Thank you. OK. With1653that, I will ask--I will recognize Ms. Lee from the great State1654of Florida.1655    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like a number of my1656colleagues here today, I too am a former prosecutor. I also am1657a former judge. I know that when a judge considers the question1658of pretrial release, there is no more important consideration1659than safety to the community and risk to the innocent people1660who live there.1661    When judges fail to consider a violent criminal history or1662when they're required to look away from a violent criminal1663history, we see absolutely tragic consequences.1664    Our Committee has been traveling the country to try to tell1665the stories of the real people and the real families who have1666been forever and permanently affected by crimes of violence,1667and crimes of violence that could have and should have been1668prevented with good criminal justice policies.1669    These hearings are an effort to show that these tragedies1670are not numbers, they are not statistics, and they are1671certainly not political theater. They are real stories of1672families, sons, daughters, whose lives are lost or permanently1673changed.1674    As a mother, I thank you for being here and for being1675willing to share with us the stories of your families. There is1676nothing that could give better perspective on how vital and1677critical it is for us to stop soft-on-crime policies that lead1678to these kinds of tragic results.1679    Officer Campbell, I'd like to start with you. You mentioned1680that you and your colleagues, the day that you were injured and1681several of them killed, were responding to a call that involved1682a violent recidivist. Is that correct?1683    Mr. Campbell. That would be correct.1684    Ms. Lee. Is that something that was unusual in your1685experience, or is that something that happens to you and your1686colleagues regularly?1687    Mr. Campbell. I would say that was an unusual circumstance.1688    Ms. Lee. Now, in your experience, is there a broader1689challenge related to violent recidivists being out on release1690before trial?1691    Mr. Campbell. Yes.1692    Ms. Lee. What effect does that have on your ability to do1693your job safely?1694    Mr. Campbell. Speaking as a police officer, I would say we1695spend a lot of our time chasing our tail and rearresting the1696same people that we arrested the week prior while the violent1697crime continues.1698    A lot of crime is stopped just by our mere presence. Our1699presence is pulled because, again, we continue to arrest and1700deal with the same people day in and day out.1701    Ms. Lee. Mr. Woody, one thing that you mentioned was the1702concept of an unsecured bond or releasing someone on their own1703recognizance. Tell us, if you would, your perspective on the1704significance of, instead, having a secure bond or detaining1705someone pending trial.1706    Mr. Woody. A secured bail bond, a co-signer is required,1707and indemnitor, per se. That indemnitor is going to be a family1708member, a close friend, a relative, or someone who has1709substantial collateral and something to lose if this defendant1710reoffends, if this defendant absconds, or if this defendant1711goes out and just thumbs his nose, per se, as the word was used1712earlier, to the court.1713    Ms. Lee. Ms. Alderman, you mentioned something in your1714earlier testimony that I think is a really important point for1715everyone here to understand. That is that it's been five years1716and you're--1717    Ms. Alderman. Five and a half.1718    Ms. Lee. --and you're still waiting on a trial for the1719offenders in your granddaughter's case.1720    Ms. Alderman. That, Ms. Lee, is not uncommon in Mecklenburg1721County. We are not the only ones.1722    The murder docket or whatever--I don't know the legal1723terms--but murder trials are between five and seven, sometimes1724more, years behind. That is outrageous. What the district1725attorney's office will tell the victims--they did tell me, and1726they have told others that I've spoken to--time does not--is1727not a friend to your case. Time only hurts your case.1728    When you have a heinous crime, for example--because I'm1729here for Mary--what they did to Mary, they had the evidence,1730they had the people, they had a witness in marry herself,1731because they had wanted to burn Mary's body in that mattress.1732Something that horrific is just put in line, just when they get1733to it.1734    They're just finishing up 2019. Mary was murdered in 2020.1735That personally, to me, makes no sense. Every single person who1736was murdered, there should be a swift prosecution, and they1737should be prosecuted, and it should be taken care of.1738    In addition to that, in my opinion, something as heinous as1739what they did to Mary and others in Mecklenburg County should1740be dealt with more swiftly.1741    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Ms. Alderman. Mr. Chair, I yield back.1742    Mr. Van Drew. I recognize the gentleman from South1743Carolina, Mr. Fry.1744    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to be here. You1745and I have traveled quite extensively into multiple1746jurisdictions to see the results of soft-on-crime policies1747within counties and within cities. Unfortunately, Charlotte is1748no stranger to that, too.1749    To Officer Campbell, thank you for your bravery, thank you1750for your commitment to law enforcement, and thank you for1751speaking up. I had the opportunity yesterday on the way up here1752to talk to several members, officers that serve this area who1753were fearful that if they spoke out or that if I attributed1754things to their name, that they would somehow be penalized for1755that.1756    What they have said and what they've said on the phone with1757me was really in line with what you've said, which is that1758these soft-on-crime policies, letting people out, letting1759people back out, and letting reoffenders back out routinely is1760a problem for what you do every day. That they don't feel the1761support from the city council; they don't feel the support from1762the judges on things that they do.1763    Even your own handbook really ties the hands of law1764enforcement and the things that you're able to do, and I think1765that's certainly a concern.1766    To Mr. Woody, thank you for speaking up about bail. There's1767a 2023 study in California--Mr. Kiley's State--of the Yolo1768County District Attorney's Office where California found that176970 percent of defendants released on no-cash bail went on to1770reoffend--70 percent.1771    The study found that defendants released on no-cash bail1772were twice as likely to be rearrested for felonies and three1773times as likely to be rearrested for violent crimes compared to1774those who actually posted bail. That's in line with what you1775said earlier.1776    Mr. Federico, you and I have had the opportunity to speak.1777It's just heart-wrenching to hear and to hear your testimony1778about Logan and what she faced. A lot of my questions today are1779going to be in line with you because I really want to dive into1780this because this is not unique to Charlotte, New York, or1781California. This happened in my home State of South Carolina1782and Columbia. I don't represent Columbia, but I want to dive1783into that.1784    She was a beautiful young lady pursuing a degree in1785education. She wanted to be a teacher. That is the most1786altruistic and good profession that is out there, and her life1787was cut short. Let's dive into that.1788    Mr. Federico, your daughter's killer had 39 prior crimes.1789Is that correct?1790    Mr. Federico. Yes, and 25 of them were felonies.1791    Mr. Fry. Twenty-five were felonies. Did he serve any time1792in prison?1793    Mr. Federico. He served a little over 600 days.1794    Mr. Fry. If you took all 25 felonies and you took all 391795crimes and he had actually served jail for those, what were his1796sentences supposed to be, if you took them all together and you1797added them up?1798    Mr. Federico. Over 140-some-plus years.1799    Mr. Fry. One hundred and forty years, but he served 6001800days.1801    Mr. Federico. Right.1802    Mr. Fry. In 2014, he was charged with first-degree burglary1803and grand larceny, and if he was convicted, he would have faced180420 years. Is that your understanding?1805    Mr. Federico. That is correct.1806    Mr. Fry. Did he serve 20 years for the 2014 felonies?1807    Mr. Federico. No.1808    Mr. Fry. How much time did he serve, do you know?1809    Mr. Federico. I think 411 days, and then he was out.1810    Mr. Fry. In 2023, he was charged again with third-degree1811burglary and unlawful carrying of a pistol. The court's comment1812on the public index of South Carolina says that the sentence1813would have been five years. Is that correct?1814    Mr. Federico. Yes.1815    Mr. Fry. From 2023-2028.1816    Mr. Federico. Would have never met Logan.1817    Mr. Fry. He would never have met Logan.1818    Mr. Federico. Yes.1819    Mr. Fry. He would have still been incarcerated. What1820happened in that sentencing, do you remember?1821    Mr. Federico. He was paroled for compliance.1822    Mr. Fry. He served time served, right?1823    Mr. Federico. Time served.1824    Mr. Fry. The 114 days pending his trial. Time served?1825    Mr. Federico. Yes.1826    Mr. Fry. With a maximum sentence of five years for third-1827degree burglary.1828    Mr. Federico. That's with a felon with a gun.1829    Mr. Fry. Two years on probation, too, right?1830    Mr. Federico. Yes.1831    Mr. Fry. During that probation, while he was out, he1832reoffended again. Isn't that right?1833    Mr. Federico. That's absolutely correct.1834    Mr. Fry. In 2024?1835    Mr. Federico. Yes.1836    Mr. Fry. What was that charge, do you remember?1837    Mr. Federico. I believe burglary.1838    Mr. Fry. It was identity fraud.1839    Mr. Federico. Yes, identity--burglary and identity fraud, I1840believe.1841    Mr. Fry. I know you're not a lawyer or a prosecutor or1842public defender, but to your understanding, is identity fraud a1843misdemeanor or a felony?1844    Mr. Federico. Felony.1845    Mr. Fry. It's a felony.1846    Mr. Federico. Yes.1847    Mr. Fry. That's right. How much time do you think he would1848have served if he had been convicted of that felony?1849    Mr. Federico. Probably 15-25 years.1850    Mr. Fry. That's right. Ten years, actually. Ten years in18512024, he would have never met Logan.1852    Mr. Federico. Yes.1853    Mr. Fry. He served 600 days. Why was Mr. Dickey not in1854jail?1855    Mr. Federico. You know what, couple different reasons.1856There were a couple fingerprint issues. From what I understand,1857Mr. Dickey wasn't in prison because most of his plea deals.1858    Mr. Fry. Plea deals?1859    Mr. Federico. Yes.1860    Mr. Fry. They say fingerprints. Don't you think that the1861judges and the solicitor would have had access to other1862records?1863    Mr. Federico. Well, listen, if the person who found out1864about the fingerprints issue found out about it in 10 minutes,1865they sure as hell could have found out about it.1866    Mr. Fry. Now, if the judge--have you talked to the1867prosecutor, by the way, on the current case?1868    Mr. Federico. Just once in four months.1869    Mr. Fry. Who is his name?1870    Mr. Federico. Byron Gipson.1871    Mr. Fry. You have not talked to him once in four months?1872    Mr. Federico. Once in four months.1873    Mr. Fry. After the tragic murder of your daughter, you have1874not talked to the solicitor? We call them solicitors in South1875Carolina.1876    Mr. Federico. That's correct.1877    Mr. Fry. If the last judge prior to this murder were in1878front of you, what would you say to that judge? Then after1879that--I'll yield after your answer.1880    Mr. Federico. I'm not so sure I would say anything to him.1881I'm not so sure he would be in front of me. Take a look at my1882daughter.1883    I don't have anything to say to him. What could I say? How1884he disappointed me. How he failed Logan. How he failed1885everybody in this community. How many Alexander Dickeys do you1886think are out in South Carolina right now?1887    Mr. Fry. A lot.1888    Mr. Federico. How many in Mecklenburg? Heck, there were1889four murders in Charlotte last week. I mean, come on. This1890isn't working. It's not working for anyone.1891    Mr. Fry. Thank you for your bravery coming here today. I1892know it's not easy for any of the witnesses.1893    With that Mr. Chair, I yield back.1894    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. I recognize Mr. Knott from the1895State of North Carolina.1896    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the witnesses here,1897thank you for your time, thank you for your testimony. Ms.1898King, it's always good to see you again.1899    Mr. Asher, I want to start with you. You talked about the1900decline in the homicide rates over the last time period. What1901time period specifically are you referring to?1902    Mr. Asher. In general, murder rose 30 percent nationally in19032020; had stayed generally at that level between 2020-2022, and1904fell about 10 percent in 2023. Last year, the FBI had it at 14-190515 percent. Then, so far the best estimate is roughly a 201906percent decline this year.1907    Mr. Knott. In terms of the homicides that you're referring1908to, what are the overall numbers per year on average?1909    Mr. Asher. The year 2014 is previously the lowest murder1910rate ever recorded in the U.S. was about 14,500. In 2020, it1911hit about 22,000.1912    Mr. Knott. Are you referring to convictions, charges?1913    Mr. Asher. No. This is just from police reporting. This has1914nothing to do with the prosecution angle.1915    Mr. Knott. The only reason why I'm asking is, you're aware1916that it is a homicide to sell a lethal dose of drugs, correct?1917    Mr. Asher. In this case, it's the difference between a1918homicide and a murder. From the prosecution side, that can be1919homicide. From the way that the FBI is counting it would be a1920nonmurder homicide1921    Mr. Knott. Interesting. Sure. A nonmurder homicide. OK.1922    Mr. Asher. Yes.1923    Mr. Knott. Well, a homicide result--a criminal activity1924results in the death of the victim, correct?1925    Mr. Asher. Yes.1926    Mr. Knott. Isn't it true that since 2000, there have been1927roughly 1.5 million victims who have lost their lives because1928of overdose?1929    Mr. Asher. I don't have that number, but I don't doubt1930that.1931    Mr. Knott. That's not as rosy as crime is going away, crime1932is decreasing, correct? That's a 1.5 million, 1.5 million1933Americans over the last 20 years who were not captured in this1934batch of stats. It's astounding. It's astounding.1935    You're also aware that there was a leader in the Capitol1936Police Department, Mr. Michael Pulliam, who was suspended for1937manipulating crime data to make it appear that his community1938was safer than it actually was. Are you aware of that?1939    Mr. Asher. Are you talking about Washington, DC?1940    Mr. Knott. Yes.1941    Mr. Asher. I'm familiar with the allegation. I believe it's1942under investigation.1943    Mr. Knott. Yes. It is potentially feasible that the1944conclusions that you're deriving taken from police departments1945are not the full picture.1946    Mr. Asher. I believe that it is the full picture. I think1947that--1948    Mr. Knott. I know you do. it's possible. I'm just asking if1949it's possible.1950    Mr. Asher. Crime data is very flawed.1951    Mr. Knott. You just disregarded 1.5 million dead1952Americans--1953    Mr. Asher. Well, I'm not disregarding anything, sir.1954    Mr. Knott. --to try to paint a picture that we are in a1955safer community.1956    Mr. Asher. Even overdoses are falling this year. I think1957that I can appreciate it--1958    Mr. Knott. Well, that's because they've been so elevated.1959They're falling because we have protected the American citizens1960by securing the border.1961    Mr. Asher. One can appreciate a trend that we are seeing1962currently, a downward trend in both overdoses, we're seeing1963downward trend in murder, we're seeing a downward trend in1964violent crime. While also not saying that these trends are1965acceptable, that the problem is solved--1966    Mr. Knott. When you sit here and look and talk to the1967people on the ground in Charlotte, sir, I would submit that1968your conclusions are not tethered to reality.1969    Now, Officer Campbell, I want to talk to you just briefly1970about various initiatives. There's been a lot of discussion1971about partisanship and how the Democratic party is not soft on1972crime. There are some Democrats who are not soft on crime.1973    In terms of defunding the police, a clarion call for the1974Democratic party, does that make us more or less safe?1975    Mr. Campbell. I would say that makes us less safe.1976    Mr. Knott. What about working feverishly against long-term1977incarceration, is that more or less safe?1978    Mr. Campbell. Less safe.1979    Mr. Knott. Mr. Woody, what about cashless bail--again,1980that's a uniquely partisan initiative funded by Democrats1981nationally, locally, and State level--does that make us more or1982less safe?1983    Mr. Woody. Cashless bail makes us less safe.1984    Mr. Knott. Mr. Campbell, in regard to the complete1985disregard of our borders and our immigration laws, does that1986make us more or less safe?1987    Mr. Campbell. Less safe.1988    Mr. Knott. What about decriminalizing all drugs--that's a1989partisan initiative in some parts of the country--more or less1990safe?1991    Mr. Campbell. Less safe.1992    Mr. Knott. What about funding NGOs, tens of billions--we're1993talking about funding, we talk about mental health, we talk1994about victims funding--tens of billions of dollars over the1995last four years that was handed directly to people who were1996here illegally. Does that make us more or less safe?1997    Mr. Campbell. It would be less safe.1998    Mr. Knott. It seems to me that we have an ideology problem,1999not a funding problem.2000    Would you say it's a coincidence that the top ten most2001dangerous cities in the country are led locally by Democrats?2002Is that a coincidence?2003    Mr. Campbell. No.2004    Mr. Knott. Now, Mr. Federico, I want to ask you, there's2005been a lot of discussion about you cannot incarcerate your way2006to public safety. Do you agree with that?2007    Mr. Federico. Well, how can we find out? We don't do it.2008    Mr. Knott. Right.2009    Mr. Federico. There's percentages out there that after2010three years--after three years of release, 68 percent of them2011are rearrested.2012    Mr. Knott. Right.2013    Mr. Federico. We've got to figure it out first. Put them2014there first, then let's do the math.2015    Mr. Knott. Right. If someone has 39 arrests, 25 felonies,2016do you think they've earned the right to be in a jail cell?2017    Mr. Federico. He has probably one of the best resumes of a2018criminal.2019    Mr. Knott. You think he deserves mental health, or does he2020deserve to be in jail?2021    Mr. Federico. I think he deserves to be dead.2022    Mr. Knott. Ms. Alderman, in regard to your tragedy--again,2023thank you for being here--did your--did the criminal who2024affected you--does he deserve mental health, or does he deserve2025to be in jail?2026    Ms. Alderman. The criminal--2027    Mr. Van Drew. Time has expired, but I'll let you finish2028that question.2029    Ms. Alderman. The criminals who killed Mary are not2030mentally ill, so it's not a valid concern of mine.2031    Mr. Knott. Thank you.2032    Ms. Ross. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent request.2033Just one this time.2034    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article2035from Reuters dated September 29, 2025, entitled, ``Exclusive2036Federal Drug Prosecutions Fall to Lowest Level in Decades As2037Trump Shifts Focus to Deportations.''2038    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection. I recognize the gentleman2039from North Carolina, Mr. Harris.2040    Mr. Harris. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all my2041colleagues for coming to be a part of this. I want to thank you2042for holding this hearing here in the city of Charlotte.2043    I moved to Charlotte 20 years ago. Brought my family here2044to become the pastor of First Baptist Church here in downtown2045Charlotte. I can tell you that in 20 years, the Charlotte that2046we have discussed here today, there's a lot of issues that I2047think all of us have recognized. Quite frankly, I'm very2048thankful to have an opportunity for us to converse on how we2049can make it safer for its residents and its visitors.2050    All of us here in this room and across the country have2051seen the video of the tragic murder of Iryna Zarutska. We've2052heard the harrowing stories that all you have shared today.2053Again, I add my heartfelt condolences to you, but my incredible2054admiration for your strength, resolve, and courage to continue2055to tell the stories. You cannot quit telling them. I'm very2056grateful for your willingness to step up.2057    In the case of Iryna Zarutska, Decarlos Brown, Jr., we2058know, had a long criminal history. Despite this, in his last2059encounter with the law prior to murdering Iryna, Magistrate2060Teresa Stokes released him back into the community with only a2061simple--and I quote--``written promise'' to appear for his2062trial.2063    Now, sadly, it's all too common for a criminal to be let2064off easy by a judge only to have him turn around and commit2065even worse crime. You know and I know this is unacceptable.2066    Officer Campbell, I want to turn to you quickly. Have you2067encountered situations where individuals with a history of2068violent crime were released and you saw later reoffended?2069    Mr. Campbell. That would be the Majority of the people I2070arrested.2071    Mr. Harris. The Majority. Thank you, sir.2072    In your view, how do lenient bail policies impact crime in2073Charlotte?2074    Mr. Campbell. It would increase it because they know2075they're not going to be held accountable.2076    Mr. Harris. How do you, as a police officer, feel when2077these criminals are arrested and are shortly released2078immediately back into the public?2079    Mr. Campbell. I feel the Majority of the work that I have2080done was pointless because they'll be out on the streets while2081I'm still writing the report.2082    Mr. Harris. Well, in my view, lenient bail policies are not2083working in the city of Charlotte or cities across this Nation.2084Criminals need to know that when they get arrested, they will2085not be immediately released on just an unsecured bond or2086written promise to appear.2087    In fact, I'm going to share a story that former Union2088County DA John Snyder shared with me years back. A man was2089arrested just over the Charlotte border in Union County that I2090represent. Being a repeat offender in Charlotte, he suddenly2091noticed that the police car was headed in the opposite2092direction of Mecklenburg County Jail.2093    After raising this concern with the police officer, he was2094informed he had been arrested in Union County, not Mecklenburg.2095On hearing this, the man began sobbing because he knew he was2096going to jail that night and would spend the night in jail.2097    Jurisdictions across the State should strive to send a2098similar message wherever you are. Many of those issues need to2099be dealt with by the North Carolina General Assembly, as we've2100heard today. I'm glad to see that they're already doing so with2101the passage of Iryna's Law, and I'm certainly praying and I2102hope all you are urging Governor Stein to find the courage to2103sign it into law.2104    Mr. Woody, turning to you, could you please describe for2105all of us the changes that Iryna's Law would make to North2106Carolina's system for bail?2107    Mr. Woody. In accompanying with the Pretrial Integrity Act,2108an offender who reoffends is automatically held 48 hours or2109until they see a judge in front of a first appearance.2110    In addition to that, it would recuse the people from having2111an unsecured bail. They would be required to post a cash bail,2112secured bail through a bail bondsman or a family member with2113property or assets through an accommodation.2114    Mr. Harris. Well, thank you for sharing that. I believe2115Congress has got to take action as well. We cannot sit by and2116allow these mismanaged cities to put Americans in danger.2117    In fact, I'm going to be introducing two bills in the next2118week, one for accountability and the other for transparency. As2119one of them is going to ensure jurisdictions that get Federal2120grants for public safety do not defund their police or2121implement cashless bail, lest they lose any of those government2122funds, and one to require the Department of Justice to publicly2123identify every jurisdiction in this country that implements2124these cashless bail policies.2125    I look forward to working with my colleagues on the2126Judiciary Committee to deal with these important matters.2127    In just my last few seconds, let me say, Mr. Federico, how2128has Logan's tragic death shaped your view of the criminal2129justice system?2130    Mr. Federico. Very disappointing. When criminals have more2131rights and are respected more than an innocent young woman at2132age 22, it should send a shockwave to everyone, to everyone.2133    Mr. Harris. Absolutely. Well, again, let me just say thank2134you to all of you for sharing your stories. Please keep sharing2135your story.2136    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.2137    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Moore from the2138great State of North Carolina.2139    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the2140Committee for being here today. I am proud to represent2141Charlotte and Congress, part of Charlotte, and while I'm glad2142that the Committee is here, I certainly hate the circumstances2143under which that the Committee has to be here.2144    To our witnesses here, I have no words. Some of you I have2145talked to before, some this is the first time. The tragic2146deaths that you all have discussed, that you are living2147through, Officer Campbell, your injuries, are things that2148should never ever have happened.2149    I do want to push back on some of the arguments that this2150is a money issue. This is not a money issue. This is a policy2151issue. This is a choice that is made often by magistrates, and2152I can give you some examples, one as recent as just a couple2153weeks ago.2154    Two of the district attorneys in two of the neighboring2155counties I represent, Travis Page from Gaston County, Mike2156Miller from Cleveland County, are here. I can tell you a story2157that I think is very telling. This happened just September 3rd,2158so this is very recent.2159    A guy by the name of John Alexander was accused of breaking2160into a Belmont Abbey College dorm room and sexually assaulting2161a student. That happened in Gaston County. However, he was2162initially arrested here in Mecklenburg County. Guess what his2163bond was, Mr. Chair? Here the bond was set at $50,000. He made2164bond. Once the case got transferred over to Gaston County, the2165district attorney and the judge there raised the bond to2166$500,000 so that this person will be incarcerated.2167    That's an example from just a few weeks ago right here2168showing the difference. The fact that you have this pattern2169happening right here, and the two counties that I hear about2170the most--the complaints about are Mecklenburg County and2171Durham County. Those are the two that I hear about most often2172when I talk to law enforcement officials all around the State.2173    That it's just--it all tends to come down to--frankly, here2174in Mecklenburg the criticism has not been with the district2175attorney. It's been more with the magistrates and the judges.2176Just let these criminals come in and go right out the door.2177    Officer Campbell, you just testified there are times when2178you're still doing the paperwork and the criminal is walking2179back out on the street. Is that correct?2180    Mr. Campbell. That would be correct.2181    Mr. Moore. Just curious, is that more often than not, or is2182that just kind of a rare thing?2183    Mr. Campbell. No. It happens quite frequently.2184    Mr. Moore. That should shock everyone. That should drive2185the point home that this is not about money or programs or2186whatever else and some of these feel-good programs that get2187kicked around out there to try to divert people from jail.2188There are people who are dangerous, and they need to be2189incarcerated.2190    I'll tell you the other problem that we have, and that is2191the lawsuit a couple decades ago, I think the ACLU filed,2192wanted to get folks--deinstitutionalize folks with serious2193mental issues. Well, guess what you have now? You have people2194out on the streets and your homeless problem has gone through2195the roof. You can't go anywhere without seeing homeless2196encampments. Even in my small town of Kings Mountain where this2197is happening, it's happening all over the country.2198    It's because of these Leftist policies of trying to get2199people deinstitutionalized who have mental issues. Some people2200need to be in the community. Guess what? There are dangerous2201people who should not have been in the community.2202    I point to the situation with Iryna Zarutska. Not only2203should this guy not have been out on bond from previous things,2204but why didn't somebody involuntarily commit this guy, right?2205This guy--whatever you want to say, this guy should not have2206been on the streets.2207    These policies have to change. Guess what? It's a question2208of what's happened when it comes to judicial officials around2209because you don't hear this as much in some of the other2210counties. You've got a data pool that you can look at.2211    For those who are here in the public, you've got two2212neighboring district attorneys sitting out in the audience2213today. Talk to them after the hearing. Get them to talk to you2214about what the stats look like in their counties.2215    I want these victims' families to know that you were not2216done properly. Your loved ones were not provided justice. That2217has to change.2218    To the family of Iryna Zarutska, I have had the opportunity2219to speak with her uncle--absolutely tragic. Leaving a war-torn2220country, coming here, starting over, only to be murdered by2221some animal who should have been behind bars on this light2222rail. Just unspeakable.2223    I just want these family members to know, I want her family2224members to know--Officer Campbell who now lives with a2225disability because I want you to know--that these stories are2226in vain and that change has to come.2227    I appreciate your courage in being here today. I appreciate2228the message that's being set forth. Mr. Chair, I appreciate2229this Committee going around the country. Because the American2230people are sick and tired of this. It has to change, and it's2231going to change. With that I yield back.2232    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields, and I thank the2233gentleman. I recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr.2234Rouzer.2235    Mr. Rouzer. I thank you, Mr. Chair.2236    I want to thank you for allowing those of us who are not on2237the Judiciary Committee to join you here today. My primary2238Committee assignments are transportation and infrastructure and2239agriculture and science and technology. First, I want to tell2240each of you my heart, boy, my heart really goes out to you. It2241is unbelievable what you have had to endure. I can tell you2242that all of us here have been working very, very hard to make2243sure that justice is achieved. It may take a little bit, but2244we're going to work hard.2245    I also want to acknowledge that my mind and heart are with2246my friends in our community of Southport, which is in my2247district. It strikes me that we have a real issue of a moral--2248of what I'll call a moral and spiritual crisis in this country2249that needs to be addressed as part of the big picture as well.2250    Given my role on the Transportation and Infrastructure2251Committee, where I'm the Chair of Highways and Transit, we're2252in the process of writing a highway bill, for lack of a better2253way to put it, and that's going to include an opportunity to2254make modifications to our transit programs. One of the things2255that I've observed through my research that is really2256interesting to me and quite appalling is fare avoidance. Folks2257get on these light rails, and they're not paying any fare2258whatsoever. That was the case with the murder here in Charlotte2259a few weeks ago.2260    Mr. Campbell, if I can ask you, is that something that you2261personally witnessed a good little bit? Is it lack of resources2262or lack of commitment to police these light rail cars and make2263sure people are paying their fares?2264    Mr. Campbell. Well, the light rail system is controlled by2265CATS, and they employ their own security.2266    Mr. Rouzer. Right.2267    Mr. Campbell. More cops to me would not be the answer. I2268mean CATS can control their own fares. There's never been a2269system that checks to see if they paid their fare or not in the2270first place.2271    Mr. Rouzer. Yes. Well, one of the fundamental principles is2272you get more of whatever you're going to incentivize. If people2273do bad and they're not reprimanded--if there's no consequence--2274they're going to continue to avoid paying any fare. That's2275definitely an issue that we'll look at in the context of our2276highway bill.2277    I know we have some great and fine citizens of this2278community, David Longo, and many other business leaders who are2279working to enhance the community here for the future and are2280working on those specific issues. I appreciate them for their2281commitment and dedication to it.2282    When you have public transportation systems that the2283average person does not want to ride, that makes it very, very2284difficult to keep them financially viable and sound, and of2285course, as you know, really a problem for the community as a2286whole. Because, after all taxpayers are paying for them.2287    Let me ask you, Mr. Woody, switching gears a little bit. I2288am just curious about your thoughts on this. Do you think2289magistrate judges are under political or institutional pressure2290to release offenders with minimal bail even in violent cases?2291    Mr. Woody. Magistrate officials are given a bail schedule.2292Whether they adhere to that bail schedule or not, that can be2293under their own accord.2294    Mr. Rouzer. Let me also--Mr. Campbell, back to you. Based2295on your experience in law enforcement, have you observed a2296correlation between the implementation or more lenient criminal2297justice policies and an increase in violent crime in the2298Charlotte region?2299    Mr. Campbell. Yes.2300    Mr. Rouzer. Unequivocally yes.2301    Mr. Campbell. Yes.2302    Mr. Rouzer. Thank you, Mr. Chair, I yield back.2303    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman.2304    Ms. Ross. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent request. I2305ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article2306written by Rachel Crumpler and Taylor Knopf, titled,2307``Charlotte Light Rail Killing Exposes Gaps in NC's Mental2308Health System,'' published by the NC Health News on September230925, 2025.2310    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2311    I also have a couple of UCs. One is this new Senate2312Judiciary Report, the Grassley report, which shows ``Biden DOJ2313Sent Taxpayer-Funded Grants to Soros-backed, Soft-On-Crime2314NGOs.'' That money, your tax money actually went there.2315    I also have another unanimous consent, from the City2316Journal, ``Are Crime Statistics Reliable?'' The ``Agency's''--2317from that article--``Process is shrouded in mystery, and its2318numbers are often inconsistent and inaccurate.''2319    With that, I will recognize the gentleman from North2320Carolina, Mr. Edwards.2321    Mr. Edwards. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Again, I2322appreciate the opportunity to be waived on to this Committee to2323visit Charlotte and to hear from this fine panel of witnesses.2324    To each of you, thank you for being here. Thank you for2325your courage. I want to apologize to you, first. I find it2326interesting that we've heard, in many situations from the folks2327that have talked today, efforts to distract us from what the2328actual issues are. Efforts to create diversions from the2329horrible stories that we've heard from our witnesses here2330today.2331    We've heard this issue politicized with documents that have2332been entered that have absolutely nothing to do with the2333relevance of your stories. I apologize to you for that.2334Frankly, I'm embarrassed that way too many times this is the2335way Congress operates. I can promise you that, while this2336behavior might be taking place up here with this panel, your2337stories have resonated with every Member that's up here. We2338will remember these when we get back to Washington, DC.2339    I apologize that we're hearing from folks that just say,2340``Give me more money, and I'll fix the problem.'' That's2341typically what we hear with about any problem that I face in2342Washington, DC--``Give me more money, and then I'll fix it.''2343If there's anybody here that believes that simply reaching2344deeper into their pockets will fix this problem, please leave a2345collection over here in front of Ms. Ross before you leave2346today. We've heard that less guns on the streets by law-abiding2347citizens would fix this problem.2348    Ms. Alderman, let me ask you, would less guns on the2349streets by law-abiding citizens, would that have saved Mary's2350life?2351    Ms. Alderman. No, not in Mary's case. Absolutely not.2352    Mr. Edwards. It wouldn't.2353    I ask you, Mr. Woody, while, no, I don't think anybody here2354is an expert on Iryna Zarutska, do you believe that less guns2355on the streets by law-abiding citizens would have saved her2356life?2357    Mr. Woody. Absolutely not.2358    Mr. Edwards. Yet, we're turning our conversations toward2359those types of things. We've heard up here that Charlotte has2360the eighth safest crime rate--an eighth best crime rate in the2361country.2362    Ms. Alderman, do you take solace in knowing that somebody2363wrote an article that Charlotte has the eighth best in the2364country? Does that help you?2365    Ms. Alderman. I don't care.2366    Mr. Edwards. Exactly. That has nothing to do with us saving2367Mary's life.2368    Ms. Alderman. It's completely irrelevant2369    We heard here that--I think it was Ms. Adams that mentioned2370there's been a 25-percent reduction in violent crime. I think2371we heard something similar from Mr. Asher.2372    Mr. Woody--well, I'll ask Mr. Federico. A reduction of 252373percent, does that give you any solace?2374    Mr. Federico. I'd like to see where it was. It certainly2375wasn't in our daughter's case; I can tell that you right now.2376    Mr. Edwards. We heard up here that we should feel2377comfortable that, in 2022, Biden signed the Bipartisan2378Communities Act.2379    Mr. Federico, do you take any solace in that? Does that2380give you any comfort at all?2381    Mr. Federico. No. There's only one thing that would have2382kept my daughter alive, and that would have been keeping a2383career criminal in prison.2384    Mr. Edwards. Exactly. I apologize to you. There's been so2385many distractions to what the conversation really should be up2386here.2387    We've heard a number of times that there's a failure of2388policy. I can buy that in some cases. Definitely, we need to2389eliminate cashless bail. That's a policy that we should go2390after. I would suggest, more than policy and more policy. We2391need transparency, and we need accountability to the people2392that are charged with implementing those policies.2393    Mr. Woody, I'm about to run out of time. I know you're2394probably not an expert on the court system--by the way, thank2395you for your service in law enforcement, most of which I2396understand is in my district. Thank you.2397    Mr. Woody. Thank you.2398    Mr. Edwards. How are magistrates selected in North2399Carolina?2400    Mr. Woody. Magistrates are appointed.2401    Mr. Edwards. They're appointed by?2402    Mr. Woody. The chief superior court judge.2403    Mr. Edwards. Which are selected?2404    Mr. Woody. They're elected. Superior court judges are2405elected.2406    Mr. Edwards. What I hear you saying is that we as citizens,2407communities, can elect folks to implement those policies. It2408may be that we need more policies or more reporting to make2409accountability a bit more transparent.2410    I'm out of time. I can go on with this forever. Thank you2411all. I appreciate you being here.2412    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields. I thank the gentleman.2413    I recognize Mr. Harrigan from North Carolina.2414    Mr. Harrigan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2415    Thank you to our witnesses today. I generally appreciate2416your heartfelt testimony. It is something, as Mr. Edwards has2417said, that will resonate with all of us forever. You have that2418commitment from us.2419    I find it personally disgusting that Members of this2420Committee have suggested that this is political theater for the2421purpose of negotiating an open seat while distracting from the2422fact that violent repeat offenders are continually let free2423from our judicial system. That is the problem that we have.2424That is only the problem that we have, period.2425    We talked a lot about money today. I will actually give DA2426Merriweather some credit. He got together with local business2427leaders and local government officials to decide, OK, hey, what2428is the minimum amount that we actually really need to get the2429job done? Because from his words he said, ``I don't want to2430throw money at this problem because the problem really isn't2431money.'' Out of the ten additional DAs that he needs with five2432additional staff assistants, that's exactly what the State2433legislature has authorized. It's just waiting on Governor2434Stein's signature to be put into law. That's happening.2435    We've got to understand that the lack of ten DAs in a2436system that has 84 DAs already is not problem. It's mutually2437exclusive from the problem of judicial posture with respect to2438judges and magistrates simply allowing violent repeat criminals2439back on our streets, as well as trial delays, which, as we all2440know, over the course of time, we lose witnesses; we lose2441accuracy of testimony. It degrades the system of justice that2442we have. We cannot allow this to continue to stand.2443    What I find absolutely indefensible is politicizing this2444Committee, testimony here today, in front of these victims and2445the families of these victims, saying that this is for2446political purposes.2447    Mr. Asher talked about statistics today. The statistics2448that he entered into his testimony today about declining crime2449are only through June 2025. It does not talk about July,2450August, or September. You know what's happened in July, August,2451and September? The murder rate has skyrocketed in Charlotte. We2452are picking and choosing what type of statistics we want to2453share to forge a narrative that is detached from reality. That2454narrative does not line up to the experience of Officer2455Campbell, Mr. Federico, and Ms. Alderman. Let us not forget2456that.2457    One of my Democratic colleagues said, ``Don't judge us by2458what we say but what we do,'' with respect to money.2459    Let me be very clear, the sole force behind defunding the2460police has been the Democratic Party, period. They have created2461unrest. They have created a desire within our population to not2462step up and serve in law enforcement.2463    I had a long meeting with Johnny Jennings, the former Chief2464of Police and CMPD, and I asked for a meeting. I said, ``What's2465working; what's not working? I want to go through everything so2466that I might be able to help you.'' At the end of what was2467supposed to be a 45-minute meeting that actually lasted 3\1/2\2468hours, he said, ``Mr. Harrigan, I just want to thank you.'' I2469said, ``Why, Chief?'' He said, ``Because not one time in my2470entire career, 30 years, has an elected official asked to talk2471to me about what's working, what's not working, and to let me2472know that they had my back.'' Not one member of the Charlotte2473City Council, not one member of the Mecklenburg County2474Commission, not the mayor, not a single Congressperson had ever2475come before him and asked, ``How can we help?'' as opposed to2476just absolutely running him through the mud when things didn't2477go their way in traditional media.2478    Guys, we have a problem here. We have a very real problem2479that we need to work together to solve. We have to understand2480what is the root of this problem. It is, as Mr. Moore said,2481``it is not money, it is poor policy built on poor principle2482that is leading us down the road to failed outcomes.'' We have2483failed leaders who are leading us down the road to failed2484outcomes. It's their kids that pay the price. That's got to2485stop.2486    I've got a daughter, two daughters, Raegan and McKinley,2487they're six and eight. God forbid, if something like that ever2488happened to them, I could not be a civil citizen. Mr. Federico,2489I thank you for your restraint today. God bless you. I yield2490back.2491    Mr. Federico. Thank you.2492    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields. I recognize Mr. Schmidt2493from the great State of Kansas.2494    Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank all our2495witnesses, but particularly the family members who are the2496victims themselves in the case of Officer Campbell.2497    I have not met any of you personally prior to today, but I2498feel like I know you. I've spent 12 years as attorney general2499in our State. I've spent a lot of time with families who have2500lost everything. I always made a point to sit down with2501families before we make charging decisions or plea decisions or2502management decisions on a case, because I thought that it was2503important to understand as we were acting on behalf of the2504State of Kansas within the boundaries of the law and the2505evidence that was in front of us.2506    I want to thank you for stepping forward and expressing my2507unbelievable sorrow with you, even though we have not met2508before today.2509    I don't know how it is here in North Carolina. I'm learning2510how it is in Washington, DC, when we debate criminal justice2511policy. I'll tell you how it was in Kansas for a lot of years2512when I served in public policy roles.2513    Our legislature would say all the right things, including2514me, when I was serving there. Then, it would come crunch time,2515and it was time to make numbers fit, and it was budget time. We2516always ended up in a public safety context in a conversation2517about dead space in our prisons and the cost-managing inmates2518or offenders on the back end. Then we had very smart people--2519and I say this genuinely--Mr. Asher and I have not met before.2520I've heard his presentation to a lot of smart folks who sit and2521crunch numbers who tell us how to back into public safety2522decisions. Then, we would make those decisions, and I would2523often vote against them because it ended up with the decision2524being that you had decided how many people you were willing to2525pay to correct. You were deciding who went to the top of the2526list to be correct. Everybody else wound up on early release.2527They wound up on work release. Perhaps they wound up with a2528cashless bail option. We didn't have that in Kansas. We2529repelled that.2530    I always thought that was backward. I always thought you2531ought to sit down with individuals who had lost a loved one or2532who were themselves victims of crime, you ought to make policy2533decisions based on what you thought justice was in an2534individual case. Then you ought to make resource decisions2535based on what your policy decisions were on what justice2536demanded. I thought that was correct, even as a fiscally2537conservative guy, because I think public safety is a core2538function of State and local government and the Federal2539Government within our boundaries.2540    I guess I would just ask--I am going to start with Ms. King2541because she's worked the system as a prosecutor. Do you share2542that general philosophy that we ought to decide who we need off2543the streets first, and then figure out what it costs as opposed2544to deciding how much we're willing to spend, and then figure2545out who we can get off the streets with the resources2546available?2547    Ms. King. The criminal justice system is--depending on who2548commits the crime. Who commits the crime is who the resources,2549whether that's investigation or prosecutorial, that's how those2550resources are allocated, working cases against the individuals2551that commit the crime.2552    Mr. Schmidt. Officer Campbell, how about you? You've seen2553both sides of the system now.2554    Mr. Campbell. I don't know. Because I don't know where you2555want me to begin.2556    Mr. Schmidt. Wherever you think is appropriate.2557    Mr. Campbell. We sit here and reallocate funds, time, and2558equipment to arresting one person. Go through the system,2559they're already back out. They commit another crime before they2560have their court case. Now, you have two court cases. It just2561keeps piling up. That would be my experience in this whole2562thing.2563    Mr. Schmidt. Mr. Woody, you deal with a particular slice of2564the offender population at a particular moment in time. Any2565thoughts on that general approach?2566    Mr. Woody. The general approach would be that there has to2567be some sort of accountability for the offender. We start with2568the accountability of the date of arrest, and the2569accountability follows him throughout the duration of the2570charge, so the snowball effect doesn't begin.2571    Cashless bail has no accountability for the offender.2572They're released 1-3 days with no consequences versus secured2573bail. If they go through a secured bail process, they have2574family, someone for collateral, someone with skin in the game2575to verify the takeover to the court system.2576    Mr. Schmidt. Mr. Federico.2577    Mr. Federico. The safety of the community has to come2578first. If that is putting somebody in prison right away and not2579letting them go until it's ready as far as their hearing--you2580have to think of the community first. Nobody thought of the2581community first--39 arrests, 25 felonies. Come on. Seriously.2582Who can possibly explain that to me? No.2583    It has to be--you put them in there; we'll worry about it2584later. We'll figure it out. Simple as that.2585    Mr. Schmidt. Amen, sir. I believe I'm out of time. I would2586ask Ms. Alderman, but I'll leave it to the Chair on that.2587    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman, both of you actually.2588I mean, getting my place here.2589    Yes, Mr. McDowell. I recognize Mr. McDowell, the gentleman2590from North Carolina.2591    Mr. McDowell. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2592    Thank you to each of the witnesses for being here today. I2593want to first address something that one of my colleagues said2594to begin this hearing, which was that apparently all the folks2595on the Republican side are here to talk about catchy slogans,2596and that's what we care about. I take offense to that and it's2597wrong. It needs to be called out because, nine months ago, I2598was sworn in to serve as a Member of Congress. The only reason2599that I ran for Congress was because my little brother is one of2600those statistics that Mr. Asher failed to mention. He was2601killed by fentanyl poisoning. This is not a statistic for me.2602This is not a catchy slogan. What this is, is a way for me to2603get up and do something about it. I wouldn't be in Congress2604were it not for failed policies of Democrat politicians that2605left our border wide open. I take offense to what my colleagues2606said at the beginning of this meeting that all we care about is2607catchy slogans. Because it's wrong.2608    I know firsthand, Mr. Federico, what it's like to see that2609picture, a picture of a lost loved one that drives you and that2610motivates you. In my office, I keep a picture of my brother2611that I have to see every single day before I go to vote, so I2612remember why I'm here. Every day, when I see him, I will see2613Logan. Because that's why I'm here. I am here to do something2614about it. We're all here to do something about it because we2615cannot let these beautiful people that are murdered by2616dangerous criminals, who have been in and out of custody but2617never actually put in a box where they belong. We can't do2618nothing.2619    There's been a lot of conversation today about funding and2620mental health. My wife is a therapist. As good as she is, I2621don't think an hour a week with my wife would have saved Iryna.2622Because I don't think that would have saved Decarlos Brown's2623mental health. No. He's an animal. He's a criminal, and that is2624obvious from the horrific video that we saw. He belongs in a2625jail cell. It is a failure--I won't even call them leaders2626because they're not leaders. Because leaders would have made2627sure that he was in prison. They're elected officials that2628didn't do their job, and they need to be called out for it.2629    I hate that Mr. Asher is not here to talk about the rosy2630statistics that he offered us today, but I don't think that2631those rosy statistics really do anything for victims' families.2632    Mr. Federico, I have a question for you. Did the statistics2633that Mr. Asher shared with us today, do they do anything to2634ease your pain?2635    Mr. Federico. I think they're crap.2636    Mr. McDowell. I concur. Unfortunately, for the narrative2637that my friends on the other side of the aisle are trying to2638paint, I'm going to yield the rest of my time to Representative2639Knott to continue his questioning.2640    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Representative McDowell. It's2641alarming that we've been told it's a funding issue; it's a2642mental health issue: ``You can't incarcerate your way or law2643enforcement your way out of crime.'' Stats tell you, Charlotte,2644that you're safe, so sit down and be quiet.2645    It's outrageous. It's outrageous. Their statistician said2646disregard 1.5 million dead Americans. The law enforcement data2647that he utilized is inherently flawed. Sit down and be quiet2648because you're safe.2649    Again, I find it outrageous. We do not have a spending2650problem; we have an ideological problem. When we start to look2651at behavior as some sort of collective trend or some sort of2652disparate impact if we actually police, rather than what one2653person does--does he or she deserve to be charged and2654prosecuted--we're going to be way off course. That's it.2655    Justice is blind. If you commit a crime, you deserve to be2656prosecuted. I hate to say this, but I've been very convicted up2657here; if any of us on this row right here had something stolen2658from us, if we were slapped, punched, shoved to the ground, do2659you think that we would be crying at mental health? I find it2660laughable. I find it laughable.2661    I'm astounded that we look at the brutal murder of Iryna--2662how anybody could conclude this is a mental health crisis is2663astounding.2664    I am short on crime--I mean on time. Ms. King, let me just2665ask you, one tool that I think is underutilized is the task2666force officer model. Can you briefly summarize how we can2667implement that around the country to force multiply for good?2668    Ms. King. Absolutely. The task force model, which was best2669utilized through the Organized Crime Drug Task Force, combines2670resources at both the Federal and the State level, law2671enforcement, and even prosecutors. The benefit of that is2672because, oftentimes, local law enforcement, they know the2673drivers of violent crime on the street. They're in the2674community every day. They know those repeat offenders.2675    However, the Federal law enforcement oftentimes does, in2676fact, have more resources--whether that be money to throw at2677investigations and or manpower.2678    Mr. Knott. Right.2679    Ms. King. Combining those tools really does make a bigger2680and better impact. They're able to make bigger and better2681cases. They're able to focus their attention on specific2682problems, such as violence crime.2683    In my experience as a prosecutor, the most violent people I2684was ever able to prosecute were, in fact, the result of a task2685force model.2686    Mr. Knott. Right.2687    Ms. King. I would echo that--I know the OCEDETF program has2688been dismantled. I would echo that bringing back programs such2689as that are, in fact, tremendously instrumental in our2690communities.2691    Mr. Knott. Thank you.2692    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields. The gentleman yields.2693    Last but not least, we have the gentleman from South2694Carolina, Mr. Norman.2695    Mr. Norman. I have sat here for, what, 2\1/2\ hours and2696heard Members that serve in Congress quote statistics. Quote2697statistics. Crimes statistics down in Charlotte? How does that2698help the victims that are up here?2699    What if, Ms. King, it was your daughter or your2700granddaughter?2701    Or, Congresswoman Ross and Adams, you used your time to2702quote how crime is down, what about calling your mayor out,2703Mayor Lyles who failed to report the stabbing.2704    Bring that picture up here.2705    [Photo shown.]2706    Mr. Norman. It happened on August 22nd. Where is your voice2707for that? Where is your voice for the children who were, as my2708colleague mentioned, were let across the border to two on 202709million people by your President, who opened the door--we2710finally had a President that stopped it--and you criticize2711Trump and quote statistics. Are you kidding me? It's a2712disconnect.2713    What about the 14,000 murders last year? What about that2714statistic? What about the--Mr. Federico, what did you say 392715violations and 25 felonies? He is out.2716    This is an insult. You can fill this entire room with2717victims across Charlotte, not from South Carolina, but you can2718fill--you can take just a county and fill everybody here. Y'all2719using your voice as Members of Congress?2720    No, it's more than about money. What about cutting the pay2721of those judges who cut these criminals loose? What about them?2722Yes, y'all put the handcuffs on the police, and you've put the2723handcuffs on the police instead of on the victims? It blows my2724mind as I sit here and hear this.2725    Let me give you a visual. Mr. Federico, I see your2726daughter. What about this?2727    Ms. Adams. Mr. Chair.2728    Mr. Norman. What about this?2729    Ms. Adams. The family member is here.2730    Mr. Norman. Mr. Chair, it's my time. It's not her time.2731    Ms. Adams. Well, have some respect for this family.2732    Mr. Van Drew. It is the gentleman's time, and it is his2733right as a Member of Congress to testify.2734    Mr. Norman. No, I'm serious. What about this? Where was2735her--well, how about that statistic? Did it help her? Tell me,2736did it help her? No, it did not. It's a miscarriage of justice.2737    For the Members to sit up here and use their time, it's2738amazing that, in America, what happens here? What happened to2739this young lady, what happened to your daughter, and your2740granddaughter--2741    Ms. Alderman. Mary.2742    Mr. Norman. Mary. That's what happens in Third World2743countries. What happened to Charlie Kirk--that's what happens2744in Third World countries.2745    You have Members of your party who are, many of which,2746identified with the assassin. All I'm saying is this is not2747time for politics. This is not time for any race. It's not time2748of any party. It's about time of justice.2749    Like Mr. Federico said, until we stop--putting people in2750prison, no amount of money, no amount of heartbreak and try to2751decide is its mental illness, whatever it is, I don't care what2752it is; they murdered, right here. It's sick. That's what we've2753got to correct. That's what many of up here will stop or at2754least stop.2755    Ms. King, we had a perfect example of a statistic I doubt2756you ever would hear of. It's the former law enforcement from my2757home State that came up here for a bowling alley. His wife got2758assaulted. He jumped up and stopped it like the people failed2759to do with this lady. He shot at him--I mean, the criminal. He2760had the license tag and all. Guess what the police said? ``We2761can't prosecute. We don't have enough evidence.'' He said,2762``I've got the license number.'' That statistic never showed2763up. The Charlotte Police, for whatever reason, wouldn't report2764it.2765    The bottom line is, until we start getting a lot harder and2766start--these do-good policies have to go away. We have got to2767start--the crime needs to be prosecuted. Judges that don't do2768it, they ought to be replaced. Call for cutting their salary. I2769yield back.2770    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields back. I know we have2771some unanimous consents on both sides of the aisle.2772    Mr. Fry, I believe you--2773    Mr. Fry. Yes, Mr. Chair, I have got two UCs. One is an2774article in the National Police Association written by Doug2775Wyllie, ``After 21 Years as Defense Attorney, Byron Gipson2776Isn't Much of a Prosecutor.''2777    I also have the--do you want to do them all collectively?2778    Mr. Van Drew. Yes.2779    Mr. Fry. I also have the SLED report from Alexander Dickey,2780who was the murderer of Logan Federico.2781    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2782    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2783    Mr. Van Drew. Ms. Ross, I believe you have some, Ranking2784Member.2785    Ms. Ross. Yes, I have a few. Thank you. I ask unanimous2786consent to enter into the record a report written by Kylie2787Murdock and Jim Kessler, ``21st Century Red State Murder2788Crisis,'' published by Third Way February 27--2789    Unanimous consent, a report written by Chandler Hall, ``The2790Highest Rates of Gun Homicides Are in Rural Counties,''2791published by the Center for American Progress.2792    An article written by Nick Wilson, titled, ``Trump2793Administration's Budget Will Undermine ATF's Effort to Prevent2794Violent Crime.''2795    An article written by our witness, Mr. Asher, who had to2796leave, ``What To Do About Crime's Persistent--``2797    Then, unanimous consent to enter into the record an article2798written by Michael Waldman, ``Trump Defunds Effective Crime-2799Prevention--''2800    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2801    Ms. Ross. Oh. Ms. Adams has one.2802    Mr. Van Drew. I'm sorry.2803    Ms. Adams. Mr. Chair, I would like enter into the record2804and ask unanimous consent to submit the CMPD report, weekly2805crime report of Charlotte-Mecklenburg, from August 24, 2025,2806showing a 30-percent decline in homicides compared to the same2807period last year.2808    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2809    Ms. Adams. I want to apologize to Iryna's family for that2810photo. They don't want that to continue to be used to2811politicize. That's exactly what--2812    Mr. Van Drew. Ms. Adams, your time has expired. Your time2813has expired.2814    Mr. Cline. I've got a unanimous consent request.2815    Mr. Van Drew. Yes.2816    Mr. Cline. I move to admit Heritage Podcast, ``The Blue2817City Murder Problem.'' The Left's claim that America has a Red2818State murder problem is misleading and deflects from2819Progressive soft-on-crime policies that have wreaked havoc.2820    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2821    I want to thank you all for being here. I do want you to2822know one thing: Politics is not what it should be sometimes. I2823believe that the Majority of folks up here really did hear you2824for real. We'll do the very best that we can.2825    This concludes today's hearing, and we thank our witnesses2826for appearing before the Subcommittee today.2827    Without objection, all Members will have five legislative2828days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses2829or additional materials for the record, as so desired.2830    The hearing is adjourned.2831    [Whereupon, at 12:42 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]28322833    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the2834Subcommittee on Oversight can be found at: https://2835docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=118642.28362837                                 [all]