“Examining Threats to ICE Operations”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                 ______56                  EXAMINING THREATS TO ICE OPERATIONS78=======================================================================910                                HEARING1112                               BEFORE THE1314                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT1516                                 OF THE1718                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY1920                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION2526                               __________2728                         TUESDAY, MAY 20, 20252930                               __________3132                           Serial No. 119-223334                               __________3536         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary3738  GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT3940               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov4142                        ______4344             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE45 60-504             WASHINGTON : 20254647                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY4849                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair5051DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking52ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member53TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York54THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California55THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee56CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,57SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia58BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California59LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California60JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington61TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California62BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania63KEVIN KILEY, California              JOE NEGUSE, Colorado64HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia65LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina66WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont67RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois68GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California69BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida70MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York71ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas72DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas73BRANDON GILL, Texas74MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington7576                                 ------7778                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT7980                 JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey, Chair8182BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas, Ranking83ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri           Member84DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida85BRANDON GILL, Texas                  HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,86                                         Georgia8788               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director89                  JULIE TAGEN, Minority Staff Director90                            C O N T E N T S9192                              ----------9394                         Tuesday, May 20, 202595                           OPENING STATEMENTS9697                                                                   Page98The Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of the Subcommittee on99  Oversight from the State of New Jersey.........................     1100The Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking Member of the101  Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas..............     4102The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary103  from the State of Ohio.........................................     8104The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on105  the Judiciary from the State of Maryland.......................    10106107                               WITNESSES108109Andrew R. Arthur, Resident Fellow in Law and Policy, Center for110  Immigration Studies111  Oral Testimony.................................................    13112  Prepared Testimony.............................................    16113Charles Marino, CEO, Sentinel Security Systems, Former Senior Law114  Enforcement Advisor, DHS115  Oral Testimony.................................................    79116  Prepared Testimony.............................................    81117Scott Mechkowski, Former New York Field Office Deputy Director,118  U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement119  Oral Testimony.................................................    87120  Prepared Testimony.............................................    89121Jason P. Houser, Former ICE Chief of Staff, DHS Counterterrorism122  Official123  Oral Testimony.................................................    93124  Prepared Testimony.............................................    95125126          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING127128All materials submitted by the Subcommittee on Oversight, for the129  record.........................................................   117130131Materials submitted by the Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member132  of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Maryland,133  for the record134    A letter to the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee135        on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio and the Honorable136        Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on the137        Judiciary from the State of Maryland, May 20, 2025, from138        the Democrat Members of the New Jersey delegation139    An article entitled, ``Elon Musk, enemy of `open borders,'140        launched his career working illegally,'' Oct. 27, 2024,141        The Washington Post142An article entitled, ``President Trump's first 3 children did not143  receive birthright citizenship,'' Nov. 1, 2018, AP News,144  submitted by the Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking Member of145  the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas, for the146  record147148                  EXAMINING THREATS TO ICE OPERATIONS149150                              ----------151152                         Tuesday, May 20, 2025153154                        House of Representatives155156                       Subcommittee on Oversight157158                       Committee on the Judiciary159160                             Washington, DC161162    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., in Room1632141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Jefferson Van164Drew [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.165    Members present: Representatives Van Drew, Moore, Onder,166Schmidt, Gill, Crockett, Moskowitz, and Johnson.167    Also present: Representative Kamlager-Dove.168    Mr. Van Drew. The Oversight Subcommittee of the House169Judiciary Committee will come to order.170    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a171recess at any time.172    We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the examination173of threats to operations being performed by the United States174Immigration and Customs Enforcement, otherwise known as ICE.175    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the State of176Texas, Brandon Gill, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.177    After that, we will remain standing for a moment of178silence.179    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States180of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one181Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for182all.183    Mr. Van Drew. Moment of silence.184    [Moment of silence.]185    Mr. Van Drew. I will now recognize myself for an opening186statement.187    We are here today for one reason, because the American188people are watching their leaders. They are watching their189leaders at every level of government. They are watching those190who choose to protect illegal alien criminals over their own191law-abiding citizens.192    It is not rhetorical. It is not hyperbole. It is not a193Republican talking point. It is just a fact.194    Let me be very clear: This is not about politics, this is195about public safety. This is about law and order. This is about196whether the United States of America still has the will to197enforce its own laws.198    We are coming out of the largest border crisis in American199history. The American people continue to live with the200consequences every single day. During Joe Biden's Presidency201more than eight million aliens crossed the Southwest border202illegally, and that is at a minimum. There are probably many203more. There are a lot of numbers out there, but we know at204least that many.205    Six million of them were released into the country. They206were given legal advice. They were given food. They were given207education. They were given transportation. They were given208shelter and, in some cases, even debit cards. All on the209American taxpayers' dime.210    At least 1.9 million got-aways crossed the border and211escaped law enforcement altogether. We don't even know who they212all are and where they all are living.213    The open Southwest border created a drug crisis, a human214smuggling crisis, and a violent crime crisis. Unfortunately,215none of this was by accident. It happened because the Biden-216Harris Administration chose chaos over control, ideology over217enforcement of the law, and politics over the American people.218    The numbers just don't show a crisis, they show a full-219scale collapse of our sovereignty, our security, and the very220idea that a Nation without borders is still a Nation at all.221    The worst part of it all is that it just didn't happen, it222was designed. On day one of his Presidency, the Biden-Harris223Administration canceled border wall construction. Day one. It224gutted the ``Remain in Mexico'' policy. It abused immigration225patrol authorities to release hundreds, thousands of illegal226aliens into our communities. It virtually stopped enforcing227immigration laws on the interior of the United States, which228resulted in more than a 60 percent increase in ICE arrests229during the first few months of the administration.230    The Biden-Harris Administration turned a blind eye to the231spread of violent gangs like Tren de Aragua and MS-13 across232the country.233    The result: Terrorists on Watch Lists entering our country,234criminals with prior convictions for violent crimes such as235assault, rape, murder being released instead of removed, and an236immigration enforcement system overwhelmed, underfunded, and237pushed well beyond its limits.238    The only bright side of this chaos is that the American239people made their choices overwhelmingly clear by rejecting240these chaotic and terrible policies. They removed President241Biden and Border Czar Harris, and gave Republicans control of242the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.243    Now, President Trump is back in office and finally doing244what should have been done years ago: Restoring order,245rebuilding capacity, and demanding accountability. He inherited246a system that has been pushed past its breaking point.247    ICE has more than 7.6 million aliens on the nondetained248docket, up 135 percent since the day that Biden took office.249    Agents are scrambling to track dangerous individuals who250should have been deported long ago. Right now ICE needs more251detention space than it ever did, but the same voices that252created this chaos are now trying to shut down the very253detention facilities that are needed to fix this.254    That is why this hearing matters.255    From New York to California local politicians are actively256working to undermine Federal immigration enforcement. Perhaps257the most egregious effort is in my home State, the great State258of New Jersey.259    We are going to play a quick video now showing this.260    (Video.)261    Mr. Van Drew. On May 1st, Delaney Hall, a 1,000-bed262detention facility in Newark, New Jersey, was officially263reopened. It houses illegal aliens charged with crimes like264rape, murder, burglary, and weapons offenses. Facilities like265Delaney Hall are desperately needed to help prevent dangerous266criminal aliens from remaining on our streets, on your streets.267    The reopening of Delaney drastically expanded ICE's268detention capacity in the Northeast and enhanced the agency's269ability to manage an increasing number of enforcement and270removal operations of illegal aliens in our country. Despite271the severity of their crimes and illegal status in our country,272those being detained at Delaney Hall are treated with dignity273and are housed in a facility that exceeds the standards of many274of our own U.S. prisons.275    It has clean dorms. It has indoor and outdoor recreation276areas. It has mental services, mental health services, and277medical services. It has phones, webcams, and consular access.278    Yet, from the moment Delaney Hall was reauthorized to279operate as a detention facility it has been under constant,280relentless political assault. Local officials have used281inspections, lawsuits, and bureaucratic hurdles as weapons, not282to make the facility as operational but to completely shut it283down.284    Outside of the facility there have been coordinated285protests led by political figures, including Newark, New286Jersey's own Mayor, who publicly vowed to ``padlock the287building if necessary,'' and declared that immigration288enforcement of criminals is not welcome in his city. This isn't289oversight, it is not oversight, that is obstruction. There is a290big difference.291    It is lawfare designed to undermine Federal authorities and292score political points at the expense of our public safety.293    On May 9th, attention culminated in a shameful display by294the Mayor of Newark, New Jersey, and the Members of Congress295who stormed into the facility without clearance, without296following protocol, and physically disrupted law enforcement297operations. They cursed at staff. They shoved past security.298They assaulted Federal law enforcement offices. For what? To299free whom? Criminals?300    I am going to show you some more pictures.301    The question I have, was it to free Hugo de la Torre-302Tomailla, wanted for prosecution in Peru for the crime of303raping a minor? He is wanted in Peru.304    Was it to free Jorge Luis Sanchez-Luna, a Mexican National,305who is a registered sex offender who sexually assaulted his own306daughter?307    Or was it Lopez Reyes, a Mexican National, who is wanted in308Mexico, they want him back in Mexico, who is a fugitive for the309offense of raping a child, raping a minor?310    There are hundreds of other awful, horrible individuals311like these men currently being arrested in New Jersey. They are312being held at Delaney Hall. They should be. They should be.313    So, let's be honest. Who exactly are the Democrats fighting314for here? This is the part I don't get, because it isn't the315American people. It sure as hell is not the American people.316    Notably, the very next day after the altercation at Delaney317Hall, Mayor Baraka's super PAC--for those of that don't know,318it is a way you raise money, lots and lots of money--released319campaign ads touting his efforts to stand up to this agenda as320part of his run for Governor.321    It is obvious what happened here. This wasn't about the322detainees, it wasn't about law and order, it wasn't about323American people, it wasn't about all those marginalized people324who get hurt because they live in and around all this,325marginalized Americans. It was about politics, pure and simple.326Maybe not so pure.327    Mayor Baraka was Mayor of Newark when Delaney Hall--and I328want everybody to listen to this--Mayor Baraka was Mayor of329Newark when Delaney Hall operated under President Barack Obama.330He was the Mayor. President Obama was the President. This very331facility was operating under that under that administration.332    There were no protests, no walk-outs, no stunts, no333altercation, no attacks, nothing at all.334    Now that President Trump is back and the American people335have rejected the insanity of having an open border, now the336Mayor and his friends in Congress are outraged.337    Give me a break. Let's call this what it is, an338orchestrated campaign to protect illegal alien criminals and to339sabotage Federal law enforcement.340    Let me say that one more time. It is a campaign to protect341not illegals even, but illegal criminals, illegal criminals,342violent criminals, who have also broken the law because they343are here illegally. When Democrats say they are just trying to344help by raiding Federal facilities, remember what this really345means: They want ICE agents gone and out of the way.346    You have to believe they want criminal aliens free on our347streets. They are willing to risk public safety, and sabotage348law enforcement, and lie to the American people.349    You can't stand for law and order while voting to hurt the350police. You can't say you are for border security while351sabotaging every single tool that works.352    Let me be very clear, Delaney Hall is not the problem.353Delaney Hall is part of the solution. The real problem is the354radical Left-wing agenda that sides with criminals over355citizens, activists over agents, and chaos over commonsense.356    To the men and women of ICE, this Committee has your back.357To the Communities of New Jersey and the Northeast, and the358United States of America, we will not let your safety become a359political casualty. To the American people, we hear you. We360hear you loud and clear. You want a country that protects its361citizens. You want a system that upholds the law. You want a362Government that chooses order, not anarchy.363    That is exactly what House Republicans are fighting for. I364promise you, I promise you we will win this fight against Left-365wing chaos.366    I thank you. Just before we start and move forward I want367to address one other thing.368    We are going to have a hearing today. Sometimes it is going369to be contentious. Sometimes it is going to be hot. Sometimes370it will be argumentative. That is part of America.371    Now, you all just listen. Up here. At the same time, let us372respect each other. Let's not speak about our demeanor, our373dress, our physical stature, our hair, whatever in God's name374people think of. This is the Judiciary Committee, and we are375going to run this on both sides of the aisle in an appropriate376way. We are going to run this like ladies and gentlemen that377profoundly disagree on an issue.378    I now recognize the Ranking Member Ms. Crockett.379    Ms. Crockett. Thank you, Mr. Chair.380    I have my prepared remarks, and we are going to them at381some point. There was a lot being said, including the fact that382Delaney Hall was something that opened up under Obama and,383seemingly, the Mayor at the time did not have issues with384Delaney Hall.385    I can tell you that there was a point in time in which386Alcatraz was open as well and there seemingly weren't any387issues.388    The fact is, as the Mayor of any city I want to be clear389that there is a duty. That duty is to make sure that any and390every building that is opened in that city is up to code. So,391just because something may have been up to code in 2008 doesn't392mean that in 2025 that it was up to code. There are those that393should respect the authority of the city in which they are394operating in.395    Somehow during the later hours of last night, we saw that396while the Mayor had been unlawfully charged, those charges397ended up being dropped. The Mayor of the largest city in the398State of New Jersey was charged with criminal trespass.399    Now, we have video footage, and I am not going to play it,400but we have video footage of literally opening the gate, and401then asking him to leave and then he left. Therefore, there is402no criminal trespass.403    The reason that I bring it up is because this entire404situation could have been avoided if people just would know405their jobs and actually do their jobs. Because of the entire406chaos that ensued, it ensued because of the unlawful detainment407and arrest of the Mayor in the first place.408    Let me get to my actual remarks.409    The Republicans have called today's hearing for one410purpose, to help an administration that is already rooted in411lawlessness and corruption execute their dangerous assault on412American democracy. So, in today's hearing you will hear them413admonish their own Congressional colleagues and excuse the414behavior of the out-of-control, corrupt Trump Administration.415    They are going to try to convince you that they are here to416protect law and order, and the rule of law. They won't mention417how the Trump Administration is openly defying many of the 162418court rulings that have paused his illegal Executive Orders.419They won't talk about how the President has called for the420impeachment of judges who rule against him, or how they are421allowing ICE agents to raid churches and elementary schools.422They won't talk about how they are allowing Trump to purge the423Department of Justice of employees who helped investigate the424January 6th insurrectionists. They won't talk about how this425administration is preparing to give $5 million to the family of426Ashli Babbitt, who participated in said insurrection.427    Because they don't actually care about law and order, and428the rule of law, they are here today for one reason: To forfeit429their constitutional oversight responsibilities.430    Since I decided to bring up January 6th, let me run a tape431to remind you all the difference of Congressional oversight432versus criminals.433    [Video shown.]434    Ms. Crockett. It is interesting that one set of behavior435somehow is going to get a family rich overnight, and the other436folks, the other folks who were there in that video, the437Members of Congress, where they are saying arrest them, let me438remind you that those January 6ers have been pardoned. Let me439remind you that another January 6er was just arrested a few440days ago for committing what, another crime.441    So, if we are going to talk about us keeping our streets442safe, let's be real about who is causing crimes, who actually443went through what we call due process because no one denied the444January 6th insurrectionists of their due process. They went to445court. They either pled guilty or were found guilty and they446were sent to prison. Half of them, actually all of them, if447their sentences said so, should still be in prison because we,448as Americans, will be safer.449    We won't get into the fact that another one was already in450trouble because they had already killed somebody.451    I will continue on.452    Right now, our Republican colleagues want to forfeit their453constitutional oversight responsibilities. Let's talk about454what is actually happening.455    In March, we learned that the Trump Administration was456dismantling the Department of Homeland Security's Office of457Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and terminating staff at the458Office of the Citizenship and Immigration Service's Ombudsman.459In the Office of Immigration Detention ombudsman, because they460argue ``these offices have obstructed immigration enforcement''461and ``undermined DHS's mission.''462    The Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties investigates463public complaints about possible violations of civil rights and464civil liberties in DHS activities, including immigration465enforcement and discrimination.466    In the Immigration Detention Ombudsman, primarily, it is467their primary responsibility to conduct oversight on conditions468at immigration detention centers.469    Why would the Trump Administration wanted to dismantle470offices tasked with conducting oversight of immigration471enforcement and detention facilities? The simple answer is472without them there will be no internal oversight offices to473assess the legality of the Trump Administration's policies on474immigration enforcement.475    So, what have the results been?476    Since Trump took office in January, on January 20th, nine477detainees have died in ICE custody. In fact, in Trump's first478month in office more detainees died in ICE custody than at479anytime since Fiscal Year 2020. Congressional Democrats have480engaged in oversight activities of immigration facilities481across the country from Florida, where a 44-year-old Haitian482woman died in ICE custody, to Newark, New Jersey, where three483of our Democratic colleagues visited an immigration detention484facility to ensure the humane treatment of detainees. This485wasn't about going in and breaking nobody out, y'all,486especially when there were cameras rolling everywhere. That is487not what they were there to do.488    Now, in a breathtaking act of Executive obstruction of489Congressional oversight and the unprecedented weaponization of490the Department of Justice, we have an interim U.S. Attorney for491New Jersey who for years has argued in court that Donald Trump492is above the law. She has announced criminal charges against493Congresswoman McIver for ``impeding and interfering with law494enforcement.''495    However, our power as Members of Congress to conduct496oversight is found in the Constitution and Federal law. In497fact, Federal law explicitly prohibits DHS from,498499        Preventing a Member of Congress from entering for the purpose500        of conducting oversight any facility operated by or for the501        Department of Homeland Security used to detain or otherwise502        house aliens, or to make any temporary modification at any such503        facility that in any way alters what is observed by a visiting504        Member of Congress.505506    It is against the law. Full stop. Separately, the court has507consistently held that the speech and debate clause of the508Constitution protects individual members from prosecution for a509legislative act, including ``fact finding, field510investigations, and information gathering.'' The court has511consistently held that the primary purpose of the speech and512debate clause is to ``prevent intimidation by the executive and513before a possibly hostile judiciary.''514    Let's call this for what it is. This administration is515criminalizing legislative oversight. The Republicans on this516Committee are helping them to do so.517    Rep. McIver didn't engage in interference. It was ICE that518engaged in interference while the Members of Congress attempted519to conduct the legitimate oversight of ICE facilities.520    Everyone, whether you are American or not, should be deeply521disturbed and worried about Trump's abuse of power. They are522attacking universities for teaching things they don't like.523They are attacking law firms for representing clients that they524don't like. This hearing and these charges are an attempt at525political intimidation.526    The three Members in Newark were exercising their527constitutional duty to check an out-of-control Executive528Branch. This entire situation happened because of the unjust529arrest of Mayor Baraka. Not only were the Members invited in530and given a tour of the facility, this was after they so-called531had broken the law.532    Now, I don't know about y'all, but where I am from Texas533and I can tell you that I am not used to having law enforcement534see a crime happen right in front of their faces and then say,535never mind, we will just go about our business. In fact, why536don't you go ahead and come on in. Come on in. We are going to537do this tour because, oops, we did make a mistake because538technically by law we are supposed to allow you in.539    Wait a minute, while you are here, do y'all want something540to drink? We have got refreshments for you as well.541    After you conduct this oversight and you actually gave a542clean bill of health because you were never there to disrupt,543you were always there to do your duty, they came out and they544said everything looks good. Then, it wasn't at that moment that545they decided to arrest the Members. It wasn't the next day. In546fact, even as I sit here today no Member has been arrested.547    Now, you tell me how many times you can see the robber go548in the bank, steal the money, and then they say, well, never549mind, we will think about this later?550    That is what you call politicizing. That is what we are551here to talk about is wrong. We have got a few other issues552with ICE right now, so I am going to get to them in a second.553    The DOJ, as I said already, has already dropped the charges554against the Mayor. Look, they are coming after everyone who555uses their constitutional rights and duties to speak truth to556power: The press, the courts, and now the Members of Congress.557    To be perfectly honest, I had my team do the research.558Under no other President, Democrat or Republican, can we find559an incident where they have tried to arrest the Members of560Congress. This is absolutely absurd that they were out there561simply doing their duty. We have never seen ICE act in this562way.563    In fact, it is not less oversight that we need right now,564it is more. In fact, I am going to tell you--actually, I am not565going to tell you. I can show you better than I can tell you.566    Roll the tape.567    [Video shown.]568    Ms. Crockett. You can't tell me that somebody in this569building shouldn't do their jobs, because these people are out570of control. You are talking about arresting the Members of571Congress? These masked agents are running around acting this572way? This is not OK.573    This shouldn't be about politics; we all should be on the574same side, saying we will not stand for this type of activity.575Instead, they want to pretend like it is the Members of576Congress that the thugs, it is the Members of Congress that are577the ones that are stoking this kind of violence.578    Let me tell you what those Members of Congress were doing.579They were trying to make sure that there would not be another580mother that would lose her life in ICE custody, as it was581Mother's Day weekend. They decided that they just wanted to582make sure that people were safe, because that is who we are583supposed to be in this country.584    Honestly, for anybody that considers themselves to be a585Christian they should care about treating people in a humane586way, and they should also care about due process. Everyone in587this country under our Constitution is due process.588    With that, I will yield.589    Mr. Van Drew. The Ranking Member yields back. With that, I590will now recognize the Chair of the Full Committee, the whole591Committee, Chair Jim Jordan.592    Chair Jordan. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.593    Let's be clear. Republicans have been consistent. We have594condemned violence everytime it happened, whether it was last595week in New Jersey, whether it was January 6th, whether it was596the Summer 2020. Every single time we said if there is violence597it is wrong.598    It would have been nice if the other side had done the same599thing.600    In the Summer 2020, holy cow, police being attacked all601over the place. What are they doing? Raising money to bail out602the bad guys while they are talking about defunding the police.603Don't give me this that somehow we are being inconsistent. We604have condemned it every single time.605    Four years and four months ago today, January 20, 2021, Joe606Biden made three decisions that created this mess in our607country that we have had to deal with. He stated we are no608longer going to build the wall. We are no longer going to have609Remain in Mexico. When you get here you will not be detained,610you will be released.611    Guess what, everybody came. Go figure. Eight million people612came into the country. Six million people were released.613    Thank goodness for President Trump and his administration.614Elected on this issue. Elected on this issue. Already his615administration has deported over 135,000 criminal illegal616aliens. CFBP [sic] and Coast Guard have seized 232,000 pounds617of drugs at our Southern border. The FBI has arrested suspected618MS-13 gang members, including high ranking members, in New York619and Virginia.620    That is what enforcing our immigration laws looks like.621That is what the President campaigned on. He has been doing, he622is doing exactly what he said. It all happened without any help623from the other side.624    Rather than seeking to protect the people they represent625they are fighting for criminal illegal aliens to stay in this626country.627    Think about this, too. First, it was sanctuary cities,628local official saying we are not going to help ICE enforce629Federal law. Even when they get a detainer, they let them out630of the jail when they are trying to come apprehend them. People631who have been in there--we had the situation in Denver where632the illegal alien was in for auto theft charges, with auto633theft aggravated assault, and they said we are not going to634release them to ICE.635    ICE sent a detainer saying give us 48 hours heads-up. They636gave them 40 minutes. They had to arrest the guy in the parking637lot and an ICE agent gets injured. They said it is bad for the638migrant, bad for the law enforcement, and dangerous to the639public. That is what Left-wing policies do, sanctuary cities.640    Then, it was sanctuary States, whole States, sanctuary641States saying we are not going to work with Federal law642enforcement. It was judges letting the bad guy out the back643door while the good guys are coming in the front door to arrest644them.645    Now, we find out that even the Members of Congress. That is646what we saw at Delaney Hall a couple weeks ago. It wasn't647Congressional oversight. ICE has an important job to do. God648bless the men and women who serve in ICE. They have got a tough649job. Then we got some here in there. They have got a hard job.650Agitators who obstruct them from doing that part of their job651are part of the problem.652    I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. I want653to thank the Chair for his good work in this Subcommittee, and654on this issue in particular.655    I yield back.656    Mr. Van Drew. The Chair yields back. I was remiss. I want657to thank the witnesses for being here today as well. We658appreciate you and your time.659    With that, I will yield to the Ranking Member of the Full660Committee, Mr. Raskin, for his opening statement.661    Mr. Raskin. Thank you kindly, Chair Van Drew, and for your662opening statement.663    This week's events show how MAGA has turned American664justice completely upside down and inside out. Over the last665week we have been talking about a single rogue DOGE employee666who unilaterally canceled more than $500 million in Department667of Justice grants to local law enforcement and victims' rights668organizations, and those assisting the victims of rape and669sexual assault across the country. That is what Right-wing670policies do.671    I would say to my friend, the Chair of the Full Committee,672we tried to restore that money. Nobody seemed to know how any673of this happened. Our colleagues didn't utter a word against674our amendment and, yet, they all voted against it.675    What else happened?676    Well, a 33-year-old January 6th rioter who assaulted our677police officers at the Capitol, and he smashed the glass pane678through which Ashli Babbitt climbed before she was fatally shot679by a Capitol officer, was arrested again yesterday. This time680they got him for burglarizing neighbors' homes. This was a guy681who was pardoned by President Trump now robbing houses in682Virginia.683    This Zachary Alam was serving an eight-year sentence after684a jury convicted him of seven criminal felonies and three685misdemeanors, when President Trump granted him clemency as part686of the mass pardon of 1,600 insurrectionists and rioters for687the thousands of crimes committed on that day.688    At sentencing, U.S. District Court Judge Friedrich689described the testimony of police who recalled Alam as ``by far690the loudest, most combative, and most violent'' of the January6916th rioters who attacked the police in the part of the Capitol692that these officers were defending.693    Yesterday the Trump Department of Justice agreed to pay694nearly $5 million to the family of Ashli Babbitt, the rioter695who tried to storm the House Speaker's lobby on January 6th696after she broke into the Capitol, and after the aforementioned697Mr. Alam broke that window.698    The Department of Justice originally took the position that699her wrongful death lawsuit brought by her family was wholly700without merit, no basis, and that Babbitt's civil rights had701never been violated by the police. That the police officer702acted reasonably in defense of the Members of Congress and in703defense of Vice President Pence. A Capitol Police investigation704cleared the officer involved, saying,705706        His actions at the height of the riot, potentially saved707        Members and staff from serious injury and possible death from a708        large crowd of rioters who had forced their way into the709        Capitol, into the House Chamber where Members and staff were710        steps away.711712In 2023, then House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said, ``I think the713police officer did his job.''714    Now, although Trump's new Attorney General is set to give715$5 million to the rioter's family, Trump has not proposed to716give a penny to the more than 140 police officers injured,717wounded, hospitalized, disfigured and/or disabled in their718violence, and nothing to their families.719    He has proposed no money payments to the bereaved family of720Officer Brian Sicknick, an Army veteran with two tours abroad,721who died at age 42 here on January 7, 2021, the very next day722after being brutalized by rioters.723    The decision to give millions of dollars to the Babbitt724family and nothing to the families of the police officers who725defended this Capitol, who defended us, exacerbates the insult726of Speaker Johnson's continuing refusal to hang a simple plaque727in honor of the officers who defended the Capitol, and the728Congress, and the Vice President, a plaque mandated by law and729now more than two years overdue on the West front of the730Capitol.731    The Speaker's stubborn refusal to respect the law is craven732submission to the Executive Branch, to Donald Trump, who wants733to pretend that the rampaging mob that he sent to Congress was734made up of patriotic heroes, and that the people he pardoned735were ``hostages,'' and ``political prisoners.''736    A hostage is someone who has been illegally abducted by a737terrorist group like Hamas and held for a financial or738political ransom.739    A political prisoner is someone like Alexei Navalny or740Nelson Mandela who has been imprisoned for ideological reasons,741not for violently assaulting the police or engaging in742seditious conspiracy or destroying Federal property.743    The administration's effort to create big news yesterday744was Trump's Acting U.S. Attorney in New Jersey, a blatantly745partisan prosecutor who has bragged about working to turn New746Jersey Red, well, she announced her intention to indict our747colleague Congresswoman LaMonica McIver on charges of748assaulting, resisting, and obstructing law enforcement based on749the now famous May 9th, incident outside of Delaney Hall, an750ICE detention facility in McIver's district where she was751conducting a scheduled oversight visit with other Members of752Congress, including our 80-year-old colleague Bonnie Watson753Coleman and the Mayor of Newark.754    Well, Delaney Hall is operated by the private prison755company GEO, a major Republican donor that gave a million756dollars to Make America Great Again, Inc., and has faced757numerous lawsuits for its treatment of detainees and unsafe758conditions.759    The Members had a lawful right to be there and to760investigate. Even after ICE initiated a scuffle to arrest the761Mayor of Newark on public property, the House Members were let762in to tour the facility to conduct nonviolent oversight. The763tour went smoothly.764    This indictment is a manifest fraud, clearly designed to765distract America this week from the administration's savage and766unpopular effort to strip 14 million Americans of their767Medicaid and health coverage, and 11 million Americans of Head768Start, Meals on Wheels, and other nutritional assistance769programs like SNAP.770    Representative McIver was, of course, executing one of the771core duties of a Member of Congress, oversight, pursuant to her772precise statutory right to enter and visit an ICE facility. The773Supreme Court has repeatedly held that oversight is a central774element of the legislative process because if we can't research775the facts on the ground, we don't know what laws to pass.776    For the Department of Justice to charge McIver with777assault, is an outrage against the Constitution, which protects778Members of Congress from civil and criminal prosecution for779performance of their core legislative duties. It is also a780scandal in light of the DOJ's constant backing of cop-beating781insurrectionists, including with the shocking policy that these782pardons can even apply to criminal charges wholly unrelated to783the events of January 6th, as well as the DOJ's jaw-dropping784decision to fire more than a dozen senior criminal prosecutors785simply because they had worked on the January 6th case.786    Yet, we have got colleagues who celebrate January 6th787insurrectionists, actually calling for prosecution of Members788of the House for doing their jobs.789    Representative Buddy Carter called our colleagues rioters.790Representative Bishop actually said, ``this was an791insurrection.'' I didn't know that was in his vocabulary792because this wasn't an insurrection. He said, ``it was a793debacle worse than 9/11.''794    No police officers or ICE agents were injured at Delaney795Hall. No one died. No one had a heart attack like Officer796Fanone did. There were no strokes. There were no broken jaws797and no broken necks. Nobody was forced out of police work like798Sergeant Gonell was.799    Yet, we have got Members of Congress who would gladly800jettison the speech and debate clause, which protects all of us801in our work, the First Amendment, and the Article 1 powers of802Congress to score a few cheap political points at the expense803of their own colleagues.804    In Trump World, violent insurrectionists and cop-beating805extremists are heroes. They are martyrs. They are patriots. The806Members of Congress performing oversight functions are807criminals and insurrectionists.808    Veteran criminal prosecutors of January 6th felons are809fired so Donald Trump can continue to pander to his private810militia of pardoned rioters and insurrectionists, and a reserve811army of extremists who have proven themselves willing to stand812back and stand by.813    Let me show you what a real assault on police officers814looks like. If you would roll the tape.815    [Video played.]816    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, if this is an oversight hearing on817ICE, and ICE believes a real assault took place in New Jersey,818where are they? Why are they not present today? The star of the819show is absent. That, my friends, is no oversight.820    I yield back.821    Mr. Van Drew. The Ranking Member of the Full Committee822yields back.823    Without objection, Ms. Dove from California, and Mr. Garcia824from Illinois are permitted to participate in today's hearings825for the purpose of questioning the witnesses if a Member yields826them time for that purpose. That is true for both Republican827and Democrat.828    With that being said, all, without objection, all opening829statements will be included in the record.830    Mr. Van Drew. We will now introduce today's witnesses.831    Mr. Andrew Arthur. Mr. Arthur is a Resident Fellow in--I am832sorry--is a Resident Fellow in Law and Policy at the Center for833Immigration Studies.834    He previously served as an immigration judge for nearly835nine years; as a House staffer, including for this Committee;836and with the Department of Justice.837    Mr. Charles Marino. Mr. Marino is a former Senior Law838Enforcement Advisor at the Department of Homeland Security to839then Secretary Janet Napolitano, and the Founder and CEO of840Sentinel, a security and intelligence advisory firm.841    He is an Adjunct Professor of National Security at the842University of South Carolina.843    Mr. Scott Mechkowski. Mr. Mechkowski is a retired law844enforcement officer who served more than 24 years with what was845then called the Immigration and Naturalization Services--I846don't mean to date you--and U.S. Immigration and Customs847Enforcement.848    When he retired, Mr. Mechkowski was serving as the Deputy849Director of ICE in the city of New York.850    Mr. Jason Houser. Mr. Houser previously served as Chief of851Staff of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement from 2021-8522023. Prior to that he served as a Senior Advisor to the853Commissioner at Customs and Border Protection as an Assistant854Director for Legislative Affairs.855    He is Deputy Chief of Staff at the Department of Homeland856Security.857    We are going to begin by swearing you in today.858    Would you please rise and raise your right hand?859    Mr. Van Drew. Do you solemnly swear or affirm under penalty860of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and861correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief,862so help you God?863    [Witnesses sworn.]864    Mr. Van Drew. Let the record reflect that the witnesses865have answered in the affirmative.866    Please know that your written testimony will be entered867into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you868summarize your testimony in five minutes.869    Mr. Arthur, you may begin.870871                 STATEMENT OF ANDREW R. ARTHUR872873    Mr. Arthur. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Van Drew, Ranking874Member Crockett, Chair Jordan, and Ranking Member Raskin, thank875you for inviting me here today.876    In June, I will mark my 33rd year of immigration practice.877Many of the issues we will discuss today have been constant878during that period, though others are more novel. One constant879is the power of the Legislative Branch to decide which foreign880Nationals should be admitted, which should be removed, and881which should be detained.882    The Executive Branch is duty-bound to faithfully execute883those laws and, until late, consistently did so. It was the884refusal of the last administration to detain migrants whom it885was required to remove, and its granting entry to those886Congress expressly stated were inadmissible that triggered the887largest migration crisis in this country's history. It888facilitated the entry of nearly eight million clearly889inadmissible aliens, most of who remain.890    Consequently, the Center estimates roughly 15.4 million891aliens subject to removal are in the United States today.892    Polls and post-election analysis indicate the 2024 election893was a referendum on those policies, with the American people894demanding removal of those here illegally.895    The best proof of this support is the bipartisan passage of896the Laken Riley Act, the first law passed in this Congress897which constrained border and port releases but, more898importantly, forced the Executive to comply with Congress'899criminal detention mandates.900    The Trump Administration has responded with a three-pronged901program to drive down the unauthorized population:902903    (1)  A massive border security effort, with Mexico's904assistance;905    (2)  high profile operations to apprehend and detain906criminal aliens in the interior, and;907    (3)  encouraging those here illegally to self-deport.908909    Many elected officials at the State, local, and Federal910levels have pushed back against interior enforcement, however.911The Biden Administration argued that strict enforcement impeded912its efforts to advance ``equity for all.'' Many of the913President's opponents appeared to agree.914    They also argued that the means the administration is using915to enforce the laws have created fear and disrupted916communities. It is common for those wanted by the authorities917to be anxious. To the degree these operations focus on918criminals for whom detention and removal is mandated, those919operations make communities, and immigrant communities in920particular, safer.921    Regardless, just last week Arlington County, Virginia, site922of a September 11th terror attack targeting the Pentagon, in923which 184 innocent people were murdered, barred local police924from notifying ICE whenever those local police arrest terrorist925and human traffickers.926    Arlington is far from the only so-called sanctuary927jurisdiction. The numerous officials I spoke to in California928when I was there last month complained about the public safety929implications of that State's sanctuary law, S.D. 54, which930hamstrings State and local officers in assisting ICE.931    By law, States and localities are barred from prohibiting932their cops from communicating with ICE. Yet, that is the933purpose of many of those sanctuary policies.934    Likely the most shortsighted sanctuary States, however,935attempt to bar ICE from detaining immigrants in State and936private facilities in their jurisdictions. The upshot of such937policies is that the agency instead must detain those aliens in938more enforcement-friendly jurisdictions, far away from their939families and their attorneys.940    Respectfully, the heated rhetoric surrounding enforcement941is endangering our immigration officers. Six days ago, two men942were arrested on a criminal complaint alleging they caused a943car chase in downtown Los Angeles that impeded and endangered944ICE officers.945    Just yesterday in my home State of North Carolina a man946appeared in court on charges that he, ``threatened to kill ICE947agents and Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department officers if948immigration enforcement actions did not stop.''949    If this continues, people, ICE officers, members of the950public, those who seek to impede immigration efforts, are going951to get hurt and possibly killed. This behavior shows no sign of952abating.953    The immigration laws mandate certain aliens, criminals in954particular, to be arrested, detained, prosecuted and, usually,955removed. Long as those laws remain on the books it is the duty956of DHS to fully, faithfully and, yes, safely and humanely957enforce those laws. Efforts to challenge such enforcement958should be limited to Congress and the courts, and in peaceful959discourse that must not risk the lives of the officers960themselves and the public as a whole.961    Thank you. I look forward to your questions.962    [The prepared statement of Mr. Arthur follows:]963    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.001964965    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.002966967    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.003968969    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.004970971    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.005972973    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.006974975    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.007976977    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.008978979    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.009980981    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.010982983    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.011984985    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.012986987    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.013988989    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.014990991    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.015992993    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.016994995    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.017996997    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.018998999    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.01910001001    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02010021003    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02110041005    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02210061007    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02310081009    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02410101011    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02510121013    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02610141015    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02710161017    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02810181019    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.02910201021    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03010221023    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03110241025    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03210261027    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03310281029    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03410301031    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03510321033    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03610341035    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03710361037    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03810381039    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.03910401041    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04010421043    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04110441045    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04210461047    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04310481049    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04410501051    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04510521053    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04610541055    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04710561057    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04810581059    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.04910601061    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05010621063    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05110641065    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05210661067    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05310681069    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05410701071    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05510721073    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05610741075    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05710761077    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05810781079    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.05910801081    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06010821083    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06110841085    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06210861087    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06310881089    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Arthur. Mr. Marino, you may1090begin.10911092                  STATEMENT OF CHARLES MARINO10931094    Mr. Marino. Thank you, sir. Chair Jordan, Chair Van Drew,1095Ranking Member Raskin, and Ranking Member Crockett, and the1096Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to1097appear today to testify regarding the numerous current threats1098to ICE operations, as the agency, along with law enforcement1099throughout the entirety of the Federal Government works1100diligently to ensure the homeland security of the United States1101and the safety of the American public.1102    As a former career official with the Department of Homeland1103Security, working under both Republican and Democratic1104leadership to help protect the country by creating and1105implementing homeland security policies and programs, I am1106keenly aware of the ever-present dynamics between politics and1107the creation of National security strategy, especially in the1108areas of border security and immigration enforcement.1109    I continue my work in National security today as the CEO of1110Sentinel, a global risk and intelligence consulting firm, and1111as an Adjunct Professor at the University of South Carolina,1112teaching future generations the impact of politics on the1113development of National security strategy.1114    The current volume of threats against the United States1115remains robust in volume, more diverse in type, and originates1116from more places than at any time in our history.1117    While the threat environment is constantly evolving, what1118must remain consistent as an essential foundation to secure the1119homeland is the indisputable need for border security,1120immigration enforcement, and thorough end-to-end vetting of1121those entering the U.S. to prevent criminal and terrorist1122threats from entering the country.1123    Unfortunately, the border and immigration policies of the1124previous administration have undoubtedly made the country less1125safe by allowing very dangerous criminals and National security1126threats to enter the country, directly undercutting the very1127purpose for creating the Department of Homeland Security,1128subverting the statutory responsibilities of the Border Patrol,1129ICE, and practically every other agency tasked with protecting1130the homeland, and making their jobs exponentially more1131dangerous.1132    In addition to these known and, in some cases, unknown1133physical violent threats to the everyday mission of law1134enforcement and the American people, we are also dealing with1135the impact of politics on a mission that should universally be1136supported: Enforcing the law in the effort to safeguard the1137country.1138    Inept policies and political positions of sanctuary cities,1139for example, which fly in the face of commonsense when it comes1140to protecting law abiding citizens, also creates more dangerous1141conditions for Federal agents enforcing the immigration laws of1142the country, and for all law enforcement for that matter.1143    Political positions of not allowing State and local law1144enforcement to support ICE operations, no cash bail, and the1145release of violent repeat offenders, including those in the1146country illegally who should be prioritized for deportation,1147creates a protective shield for the most dangerous criminals1148from other countries in the U.S. illegally.1149    It also endangers lives when politicians alert their1150communities of ICE operations or when they offered guidance to1151illegal migrants regarding how to evade ICE. It also further1152promotes the community that, in some cases, they may do the1153same.1154    There must be bipartisan agreement when it comes to the1155protection of the country and support for those who enforce the1156rule of law, for no civilized society has survived without it.1157    There must also be universal consensus that despite1158political policy objections, elected officials at all levels1159must be held accountable when crossing the red line of1160obstruction and assault of law enforcement officials. What we1161saw in New Jersey at Delaney Hall detention center was not1162Congressional oversight, it was an ambush, and it was violent1163obstruction. It cannot be tolerated by this body.1164    As I have discussed, there are enough threats against this1165country, against law abiding citizens, and the ability to1166safely conduct ICE operations. There should not be additional1167threats originating from elected leaders against those doing1168their jobs, a job that the American people voted overwhelmingly1169in favor of them doing.1170    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am happy1171to answer any questions.1172    [The prepared statement of Mr. Marino follows:]1173    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06411741175    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06511761177    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06611781179    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06711801181    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06811821183    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.06911841185    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Marino. Mr. Mechkowski, you1186may begin.11871188                 STATEMENT OF SCOTT MECHKOWSKI11891190    Mr. Mechkowski. Chair Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett,1191Chair Jordan, and Ranking Member Raskin, I am honored to appear1192before you today. My name is Scott Mechkowski, and I proudly1193served this Nation for two decades as a law enforcement officer1194and with the United States military.1195    I retired from service from DHS in 2018 as a Deputy Field1196Office Director in New York City. My views are personal, shaped1197by 24 years of frontline duty and 34 years in the U.S. Army.1198Today, I speak not just from experience, but from urgency.1199    ICE detention centers and ERO's mission are not optional.1200They are essential to the rule of law. Without them, our1201immigration system and our communities collapse into chaos. The1202ERO's mission is straightforward, protecting communities by1203arresting, removing individuals who pose a threat to public1204safety, or who violate Federal immigration law.1205    I spent years targeting the most dangerous elements in our1206Nation, MS-13 gang members, drug traffickers, human right1207violators, and foreign fugitives. These were not theoretical1208threats. These were real people with real histories of violence1209and harm. Operations like Operation Matador and All In, were1210successful because they were strategically designed,1211intelligence driven, and supported by strong Federal1212infrastructure and funding, including detention beds.1213    Immigration detention is not punitive. It is a lawful tool1214to ensure compliance with immigration proceedings and final1215orders of removal. Yet, 1.4 million of those ordered removed1216are still roaming free, a population that drives a need for1217more bed space.1218    Over 60 percent of ICE's detained population is held under1219mandatory detention laws. Individuals with criminal records,1220flight risks, and even those that pose threats to National1221security.1222    Detention is about guaranteeing aliens appear in court, and1223that their rights are respected. It is also important to note1224that attorneys, family members, can visit families and provide1225support. That removal orders, once lawful and final, can be1226carried out safely, responsibly.1227    Effective GPS monitoring, known as the ISAP Program, is1228useful to ensure high-risk cases are able to be held in1229detention when detention beds are fully utilized. Now, let's1230talk about Newark. What occurred at Delaney Hall in Newark1231recently was not civil disobedience, it was chaos.1232    I have seen this before in New York. I personally witnessed1233a high-profile arrest spiral into pandemonium when protestors,1234misinformed and misled, physically blocked a medically1235necessary EMS transfer. They endangered the detainee's life,1236the officer's life, the general public's life, and ICE1237personnel.1238    The Newark protest, which led to the arrest of sitting1239Mayor Ras Baraka, echoed that same recklessness. These actions1240just don't disrupt operations, they escalate risk, threaten1241lives, and turn lawful enforcement into a spectacle.1242    Protest is a constitutional right. Interfering with lawful1243enforcement is not. Local noncooperation laws, including1244sanctuary city policies compound this threat.1245    When local authorities refuse to share information or deny1246access, it drives enforcement into uncontrolled environments.1247Homes, streets, workplaces, and that is where the danger really1248multiplies. It also increases cost and delays removal, while1249weakening victim protections, intelligence sharing, and court1250coordination.1251    Considering this, nearly eight million aliens are on the1252nondetained docket today, fewer than 50,000 are in custody.1253When we demonize detention or defund its alternatives, we1254paralyze the system. We hand over the reins to not justice, but1255chaos.1256    To the Members of the Subcommittee, I urge you to look1257beyond the rhetoric. The men and women of ICE are doing a job1258that was mandated by Congress.1259    The Acting Director for ICE, Todd Lyons, has been1260relentless in his efforts atop an agency that was abolished1261from within by the last administration. He is maximizing1262limited resources to enforce law again as Congress intended.1263Thank you.1264    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mechkowski follows.]1265    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07012661267    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07112681269    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07212701271    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07312721273    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Mechkowski. Mr. Houser, you1274may begin.12751276                  STATEMENT OF JASON P. HOUSER12771278    Mr. Houser. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member, the1279Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to1280appear before you today. I am here to speak bluntly about1281something I care deeply about, the safety and integrity of ICE1282officers who serve our country on the front lines of1283immigration enforcement.1284    I had the honor and privilege of serving as ICE Chief of1285Staff during a time of immense pressure and operational demand.1286I have seen firsthand the complexity and danger of the job.1287    The ICE officers perform their duties with courage, and1288they deserve policies that support, not endanger them.1289Unfortunately, that is not what is happening today. The current1290administration has expanded interior enforcements in ways that1291not just are overreaching but are reckless.1292    They are targeting people without criminal records,1293shutting down legal pathways, and revoking protections. The1294result, more arrests of noncriminals. These numbers might look1295good on press releases, but they put officers at greater risk,1296erode public trust in the agency, and make real enforcement1297harder.1298    The ICE operations are the most complex in Federal law1299enforcement and should be respected. A simple arrest in ICE1300does not equate directly to more detained in ICE custody.1301Additionally, it does not equate cleanly to removals and this1302sort of narrative needs to be stopped.1303    The White House is driving directives and policy through1304political theater. This is shortsighted and dangerous. It1305serves backlash that makes it harder for ICE to go after actual1306threats, violent offenders, cartel members, and traffickers,1307and it doesn't stop there.1308    The administration is pulling in officers from other1309agencies from across the Federal law enforcement, CBP, and the1310Department of Homeland Security, creating gaps, and those1311officers are not highly skilled or trained in interior1312immigration enforcement. That weakens our border security and1313turns immigration enforcement into a shell game.1314    Worse still, ICE is now expected to take on and manage in a1315vast expansion of cooperation and oversight of local law1316enforcement carrying out immigration enforcement. This1317expansion creates confusion, legal risk, and potential for real1318harm.1319    It expands the administrative burdens on ICE officers and1320takes them away from their public safety operations. All this1321is stressing our resources and making the system more chaotic.1322    The beds and detention centers are limited when they are1323filled with noncriminals. That space isn't there for dangerous1324offenders. We clog the system with cases that go nowhere1325because many of these individuals can't even be removed. They1326are protected by law, have claims pending, or come from1327countries that won't take them back.1328    It is not enforcement, it is theater. It is a churn that1329misleads the public, burns out the workforce, and accomplishes1330very little. Let me be clear. I support vigorous enforcement1331within ICE. However, strength comes from strategy, not rounding1332up the wrong people for the wrong reasons.1333    When ICE is turned into a blunt political tool, offers1334officers are the ones who suffer. Much like we saw at Delaney1335Hall. They are the face the public sees. They are the ones1336caught on video. When a mother is arrested in front of her1337kids, it is the officer, not the policymaker who carries out1338that weight. This undermines morale within ICE. It damages1339trust and it puts lives in danger.1340    What can we do? Congress has a role, and the Subcommittee1341can help restore balance and safety. We need to codify1342enforcement priorities so officers focus on real threats.1343    We must prohibit untrained law enforcement officers that1344are not trained in immigration enforcement from carrying out1345ICE and ERO's jobs. We must require ICE to adopt modern1346transparency tools, like body-worn cameras, like we saw at use1347at Delaney Hall.1348    We also need to support programs that reduce the need for1349at-large arrests, protecting the officer and the migrants. We1350also must protect ICE officers from threats specifically like1351doxxing with real legal safeguards.1352    We also need to stop pulling agents from vital1353investigations, like human trafficking and drug smuggling, to1354chase landscapers and line cooks that do not have final orders1355of removal and are most likely from countries that they cannot1356be removed to.1357    In short, ICE needs a clear mission, one based on law,1358safety and commonsense, not political showmanship. I am proud1359of the men and women who I served with at ICE, and I would1360serve them again. They deserve better and the American people1361deserve an immigration system that works for everyone. We owe1362that to the taxpayer. Thank you. I look forward to your1363questions.1364    [The prepared statement of Mr. Houser follows.]1365    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07413661367    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07513681369    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0504.07613701371    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Houser. We are now going to1372proceed under the five-minute rule with questions. I will start1373by recognizing the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Moore.1374    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I certainly appreciate all1375the witnesses being here today.1376    During Trump's first hundred days, ICE arrested 67,0001377illegal aliens and removed almost 66,000 from this country. Of1378those, almost 50,000 were criminal illegal aliens, either with1379a criminal record or facing criminal charges.1380    Mr. Arthur, what categories of aliens are generally held in1381ICE detention?1382    Mr. Arthur. Generally, it is criminals, individuals who are1383subject to mandatory detention because of crimes under Sections1384236(c) and 241(a)(2), in addition to individuals who are1385apprehended entering the United States subject to mandatory1386detention under Section 235(b).1387    Mr. Moore. OK. Mr. Mechkowski, this may be something, I1388don't know, you maybe can help me understand, but my1389understanding was, when folks came across the border here, the1390background check we did, didn't really go back to their home1391country.1392    So, how do we eventually identify those? In other words, we1393are looking for crimes they committed in the United States. We1394don't know if from Guatemala, wherever they came from, how is1395it that we eventually figure that out, and why is it that we1396don't know when they are coming?1397    Mr. Mechkowski or Mr. Arthur, either one, Mr. Marino,1398whoever, may have the answer to that.1399    Mr. Marino. Well, the problem has been the lack of thorough1400vetting for any of these illegal migrants that have been1401allowed to come into the United States. Nevermind the countries1402of origin that oftentimes can't be verified. We don't even know1403who these individuals are.1404    We know that trickles down all the way to the unaccompanied1405minors. With the lack of DNA testing that was done away with1406early in the Biden Administration, we now have well over1407350,000 that are missing within the interior of the country.1408    This becomes a guessing game now for authorities who are1409trying to rectify this system under the Trump Administration.1410It is challenging.1411    Then, when you finally do discover the countries of origin,1412sometimes they don't want to accept these illegal migrants1413back.1414    Mr. Moore. One thing I found fairly interesting, is when I1415went to the border, we saw thousands of IDs thrown down South1416of the borders. In other words, folks coming in, they had an ID1417in hand, and they tossed it on the ground before they came1418across.1419    Talking about the 350,000 children that the Biden1420Administration lost, we don't know where they are or what they1421are being trafficked into. I had an individual who came across,1422he was 31 years old, he identified as an unaccompanied minor1423and raped a 14-year-old girl in a restaurant in a restroom. He1424already had a criminal record.1425    It was amazing to me that we didn't know his record when he1426came here. Then, when you go to see the border and you see all1427these thousands of IDs laying across that Southern border, they1428don't want you to know who they are when they are coming here.1429    Mr. Arthur, why are these ICE detention centers, why are1430they so very important?1431    Mr. Arthur. The ICE detention is absolutely crucial for the1432enforcement of the law. The ICE detention serves two purposes.14331434    (1)  Ensuring that individuals will show up for their1435immigration proceedings in the removal.1436    (2)  More importantly, to ensure that individuals who pose1437a danger to the community, aren't allowed to be in the1438community while we go through that process.14391440In fact, any individual who is eligible for bond can ask for1441bond. If they don't have a crime, they can ask for bond from an1442immigration judge.1443    I heard thousands of these cases. If they didn't pose a1444danger to the community and they weren't a flight risk, they1445were eligible for a bond. Otherwise, they would be detained1446because they are not going to show up.1447    Mr. Moore. Mr. Mechkowski, you said you retired in 20181448from ICE. What was it like then compared to what you have heard1449from your colleagues in the last few years? How is the morale,1450what is going on and what are they seeing on the streets?1451    Mr. Mechkowski. Thank you for the question, sir. My1452experience was ICE officers is they are out there every day1453doing a job that Congress mandated. It is codified and there is1454funding for it. There are directives that come directly from1455Congress.1456    The men and women are out there every single day.1457    Mr. Moore. Sir, when you say codified, it is the law.1458    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1459    Mr. Moore. It always amazes me that when we are enforcing1460certain laws, everybody comes up in arms. To me it is just a1461matter of we are trying to enforce the laws on the books. You1462guys, the officers on the street, are trying to do what1463Congress has mandated.1464    What are you seeing with the morale now? Was it better? I1465assume it would have been better in 2018.1466    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir. They felt under the last1467administration, they were totally abandoned, left out to dry.1468It was a field day. They weren't doing their jobs.1469    They were sitting there. Nobody really cared, meaning the1470people there felt like ICE was literally abolished without an1471actual order from Congress abolishing ICE.1472    Mr. Moore. I am running out of time. The same party that1473wanted to defund the police, have basically attacked ICE for1474doing their job.1475    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely, sir.1476    Mr. Moore. Thank you. I yield back.1477    Mr. Van Drew. The gentlemen from Alabama yields back. I1478will recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Johnson.1479    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have got a lot of1480people out here in the audience, and if you came in support, to1481show your support for Representative LaMonica McIver, would you1482stand up, please?1483    OK. That looks like around 60 folks. Thank you all for1484coming. You may be seated. Let the record reflect Mr. Chair,1485the vast number of people who came in support of Representative1486LaMonica McIver.1487    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1488    Mr. Johnson. The Trump Administration has weaponized1489justice using the Department of Injustice to carry forward an1490assault on liberty. Trump has threatened and intimidated a1491number of lawyers and powerful law firms into submission.1492    He has put powerful institutions of higher learning under1493his thumb. He has forced powerful media companies to bow down1494and kiss his ring.1495    Now, he is threatening and trying to intimidate his1496adversaries in elective office. Last month, Trump's Department1497of Injustice arrested a female Judge doing her job at the1498courthouse in Milwaukee. They then arrested the Mayor of Newark1499in the same city that he leads.1500    Now, yesterday, they have filed charges against a Member of1501the House of Representatives. Today we are engaged in a pre-1502planned hearing entitled, ``Examining Threats to ICE1503Operations,'' while producing a highly prejudicial, expertly1504edited video, published to taint the jury pool and shape a1505false narrative on representative McIver's actions.1506    The MAGA Republicans are using this hearing to justify the1507charges against her. In support of the charges, they publish1508more videos that demonize people being held in private for-1509profit ICE detention facilities.1510    What is really happening is that Trump and his MAGA1511enablers are misusing their positions of power to prosecute1512people who refuse to lay down and get run over as they assault1513our liberties. They are trying to intimidate the Members of1514Congress from performing our duties. That is why we are really1515here today.1516    Last night, Trump's personal attorney, who he appointed to1517be interim United States Attorney for New Jersey, blatantly1518abused her authority to target a sitting Congresswoman, who had1519been roughed up by armed mask wearing ICE agents, males.1520    This interim U.S. Attorney targeted my colleague. Just1521because Representative McIver had the audacity to do her job1522rather than taking the Trump Administration's word that1523everything was fine.1524    The Members of Congress have the legal authority to visit1525ICE facilities so that we can perform oversight. It is one of1526the things we are elected to do. This administration has become1527increasingly authoritarian and will not tolerate anyone asking1528questions.1529    That is why Trump, and my Republican colleagues call for1530the impeachment of any judge who rules against this1531administration. It is why the Trump Administration targets1532students who expressed dissent.1533    It is why Trump muzzled the big law firms that previously1534stood up for civil liberties and have now agreed to stay quiet1535and do his bidding. The Trump Administration continues to1536abandon the Constitution, and the Department of Justice1537continues to politicize the pursuit of justice.1538    They have come after judges, mayors, Members of Congress,1539and our neighbors in our communities. Who is next? Is it you?1540    Representative McIver has legal rights. They threaten her,1541and in threatening her, they threaten us. No one is safe once1542you can be targeted just for asking questions and trying to1543ensure that the government is following the law.1544    Now, Mr. Houser, right now our MAGA Republicans are trying1545to pass a massive spending bill that would increase the1546National debt by $3.3 trillion and give ICE a staggering $731547billion to build more private for-profit detention facilities.1548    Can you please explain how this massive cash infusion, and1549especially the $45 billion expansion of immigration detention1550is neither wise, strategic, or safe?1551    Mr. Houser. Sir, it clearly shows the need for oversight as1552they expand detention. You are going to outsize the needs of1553what ICE actually needs operationally.1554    Additionally, it will take deportation officers off the1555streets and now they will be in these facilities. So, actually1556making us less safe.1557    Additionally, the idea that you are going to detain1558100,000-150,000 people and spend $40-$45 billion or $70 billion1559to do it, if you took that same money and just put it to fix1560the broken immigration system now, you could hire thousands of1561individuals that could be adjudicating cases, immigration1562judges, and resettlement services.1563    So, quite frankly, you could give a couple of billion1564dollars to a country to take some of the migrants back1565themselves and they would go. The idea that you are going to1566put this into detention and that will fix a system, is a bit1567absurd.1568    Mr. Johnson. Well, they want the billions to--1569    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman's time has expired.1570    Mr. Johnson. --line the political supporter's pocketbooks.1571    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman's time has expired. The1572gentleman yields back. OK. I recognize the gentleman from the1573great State of Texas, Mr. Gill.1574    Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chair. thank you for holding this1575hearing today on what I believe to be one of the most, probably1576the most important issue that our country faces right now,1577which is illegal immigration.1578    Mr. Houser, I have got a few questions for you. You were1579Chief of Staff for ICE, is that correct?1580    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.1581    Mr. Gill. What years were you there?1582    Mr. Houser. The years 2021-2023.1583    Mr. Gill. So, that was during the Biden Administration, is1584that right?1585    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.1586    Mr. Gill. Got it. So, presumably you are well versed in1587border security and immigration enforcement, is that right?1588    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir. I would say that I am very well. I1589also worked at CBP under the Obama Administration, yes, sir.1590    Mr. Gill. Got it. So, you have got a lot of experience1591there. May I ask you a few questions? In an interview with the1592Daily Blast on February 28, 2024, you mentioned, ``you can't1593deter and punish your way to lowering encounters at the1594border.''1595    Do you think you were right or wrong about that?1596    Mr. Houser. A hundred percent, sir. What we have seen--1597    Mr. Gill. A hundred percent what? Right or wrong?1598    Mr. Houser. A hundred percent I was correct.1599    Mr. Gill. You were correct about that?1600    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir. That idea that you have just1601dismantled an immigration system is not--there was a mandate to1602the Trump Administration that--1603    Mr. Gill. Illegal alien border encounters are down 951604percent right now. I think you were wrong about that.1605    You also said, ``the idea that you can turn off the border1606is just not factual.'' Do you think that was right or wrong?1607    Mr. Houser. Sir, the threats that we are still seeing1608across the border are--1609    Mr. Gill. Do you think you were right or wrong about that1610statement?1611    Mr. Houser. What is that sir?1612    Mr. Gill. The question is, were you right or wrong about1613that statement?1614    Mr. Houser. When you turned off--1615    Mr. Gill. That you can just turn off the border?1616    Mr. Houser. --operation systems, sir, yes, you will not see1617encounters.1618    Mr. Gill. Is that your--well, Southwestern border1619encounters are at a 15-year low under President Trump. Another1620thing that you mentioned,16211622        Just shutting off the border to asylum seekers is not going to1623        do that, meaning close the border. What I think it is going to1624        do is make it more erratic and sporadic for the sort of large1625        surges of migrants you would see coming across the border.16261627Do you think that was right or wrong?1628    Mr. Houser. A hundred percent correct. It was correct, sir.1629We are going to see that over the next couple of years.1630    Mr. Gill. Border apprehensions are down now because1631President Trump has secured our border. He stopped the flow of1632illegal aliens coming across our border and coming to our1633border.1634    You think that we have a better or worse border situation1635now than we did under Joe Biden?1636    Mr. Houser. Sir, I believe, the border is secure.1637    Mr. Gill. You believe the border is secure. That is right.1638You were wrong about a lot of other things, about what would1639secure the border. Is that right?1640    Mr. Houser. No, sir. It has only been 100 days.1641    Mr. Gill. You were wrong about what it would take to stop1642the flow of illegal aliens coming into the United States. You1643were wrong that secure enforcement that we are seeing under1644President Trump would stop the flow of illegal aliens.1645    You ought to keep that in mind as you are going to the1646media mouthing off about the President.1647    Mr. Houser. Can I answer that question?1648    Mr. Gill. Let me ask you another question. This is from a1649The New York Times op-ed that you wrote just a month ago.1650    Mr. Houser. Yes sir.1651    Mr. Gill. You mentioned, ``Federal law enforcement under1652President Trump has engaged in dangerous political theater.''1653What about President Trump's law enforcement, do you think is1654dangerous political theater? Do you think that--1655    Mr. Houser. Sir, I think--1656    Mr. Gill. The 235,000 pounds of fentanyl--1657    Mr. Houser. Using the border for political gain by the1658White House is a problem.1659    Mr. Gill. Do you think seizing fentanyl at the border is1660dangerous political theater? Do you know who Gilberto Avila-1661Jara is?1662    Mr. Houser. Sir, that is exactly where ICE should have1663their resources focused. That is exactly what this1664administration--1665    Mr. Gill. We did. He was arrested last month and charged1666with over 20 sex crimes against minors.1667    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.1668    Mr. Gill. These were the kind of people that Joe Biden, and1669under your leadership, were coming into our country.1670    Mr. Houser. Over the next three months doesn't make us more1671safe. Taking HSI agents away from drug interdiction and--1672    Mr. Gill. Taking murderers and rapists off our streets1673makes the American people safer. It is your testimony that1674taking murderers and rapists off our streets does not make us1675more safe? Is that what you are telling me?1676    Mr. Houser. What I am saying, sir, is that what we have1677heard from this administration, is over the next few months,1678there is going to be thousands of law enforcements focused on1679noncriminal migrants--1680    Mr. Gill. We will see. You were wrong about a lot of1681things. I don't put a whole lot of stock into that candidly. I1682don't think the American people do either. Do you support1683amnesty?1684    Mr. Houser. No, sir.1685    Mr. Gill. Do you support amnesty for illegal aliens?1686    Mr. Houser. No, sir.1687    Mr. Gill. In this The New York Times article you wrote,1688``That means that the best solution for public safety is not1689mass deportations, it's giving undocumented immigration support1690from right now.''1691    Mr. Houser. No. I support--I support from right--1692    Mr. Gill. This is my time, not yours. I am speaking. It is1693giving undocumented immigrants who have been in the United1694States for a long time, the opportunity to come forward, pay a1695fine and gain legal status.1696    That sounds a lot like amnesty to me, doesn't it to you?1697    Mr. Houser. The process, sir, under the law, that could1698exercise and allow them for migrants--1699    Mr. Gill. That is amnesty.1700    Mr. Houser. To come out of the shadows and then focus--1701    Mr. Gill. That is what amnesty is. This is a deliberate1702semantic obfuscation. You know it and I know it, and the1703American people know it as well.1704    Mr. Houser. No, it is not.1705    Mr. Gill. Do you think that illegal aliens should be given1706welfare once they get amnesty?1707    Mr. Houser. Sir, that is not my department.1708    Mr. Gill. You have got a lot of opinions on a whole lot of1709different things. You don't have an opinion on that?1710    Mr. Houser. Here is where I have worked for 20 years, sir.1711Yes, sir.1712    Mr. Gill. Finally, let me ask you, do you think that Biden1713was successful at stopping illegal immigration?1714    Mr. Houser. There were failures at the beginning of the1715Biden Administration to deal with the flow of migrants post-1716COVID.1717    Then, there were failures of implementation of policies1718across all the immigration system. That is the same problem we1719are seeing now.1720    The idea that you can enforce your way out of immigration,1721and the challenges that we see across the Western hemisphere is1722not going to work.1723    Mr. Gill. We had an open border under Biden. The border is1724secure now. That is a successful Trump policy and a failure of1725the Biden Administration.1726    I yield my time back. Thank you.1727    Mr. Van Drew. The gentlemen yields back. With that, stay1728tuned. Are you ready? I yield to the gentlelady from the great1729State of Texas, the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee, Ms.1730Crockett.1731    Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Houser,1732thank you so much for your service. I do want to make sure that1733we are clear on your credentials, because you actually have1734them.1735    I have that you were the Assistant Director of Legislative1736Affairs at Homeland Security, correct?1737    Mr. Houser. At one time, yes ma'am. About 15 years ago.1738    Ms. Crockett. You were Deputy Chief of Staff at Homeland as1739well?1740    Mr. Houser. Yes ma'am.1741    Ms. Crockett. You served as a Senior Advisor to the1742Commission as Homeland's Custom and Border Protections?1743    Mr. Houser. Yes, ma'am.1744    Ms. Crockett. As well as you recently served as the Chief1745of Staff for ICE?1746    Mr. Houser. Yes, ma'am.1747    Ms. Crockett. OK. So, you have done a few things.1748    Mr. Houser. I am also a combat veteran. Yes, ma'am.1749    Ms. Crockett. OK. Well, thank you for your service.1750    Mr. Houser. Yes, ma'am.1751    Ms. Crockett. Always--listen, I have a series of issues of1752what is going on, because I will say that the Republicans were1753right, Democrats lost on immigration.1754    When you look at all the polling, when you talk to people,1755they lost on immigration. Frankly, I am concerned that we did1756not have conversations that went beyond just talking about the1757humanity, because there are people that literally don't care1758about humanity, which is why we are able to have this1759administration doing the things that they are doing.1760    Talking about the fact that border crossings are down 951761percent, well, I don't know if I can trust that number or not.1762You know why? First, they have been going out, they have been1763firing all the persons that usually deal with data science and1764facts all over in all agencies.1765    In addition to the fact that even if that is a real number,1766we don't know if they got to that number just because, well,1767this is a lawless administration that is consistently in1768violation of people's constitutional rights. The Constitution1769in and of itself, court orders.1770    We can't really explain exactly why and how, even if that1771is true. At some point in time, you have to say there is a1772balancing test. Either we are going to follow the law fully or1773we are not at all. Frankly, what I have seen out of this1774administration is that they don't want to follow the law.1775    There is something that you said in your opening remarks1776that really stuck with me. There was a line that I wrote down.1777You said line cooks and landscapers.1778    Now, I have talked to those that are in construction. I1779have talked to those that are farmers. I have talked to a lot1780of people that have said that because of the reckless acts of1781so many of these ICE agents, they can't even get their workers1782to show up to work because of what they are doing.1783    Now, you correct me if I am wrong. As somebody that1784practiced criminal law, I never saw that we needed ICE to go1785and arrest somebody, say for murder. Is ICE the only agency1786that has the authority to arrest somebody, say if they go out1787and commit murder?1788    Mr. Houser. No, ma'am. They are not.1789    Ms. Crockett. What about aggravated robbery?1790    Mr. Houser. No, ma'am.1791    Ms. Crockett. What about rape?1792    Mr. Houser. No, ma'am.1793    Ms. Crockett. OK. So, in fact, nine times out of ten, the1794primary arresting agency, when it comes to say, committing a1795crime such as aggravated robbery, rape, and murder, would that1796be ICE? Would that be the primary arrest and investigatory1797agency to do that in the first place?1798    Mr. Houser. No, ma'am.1799    Ms. Crockett. OK. All right, so I just wanted to make sure1800I was on the right page. Because I get a little confused1801sometimes when we are around here.1802    Now, we have talked about a lot of the back and forth1803between the branches and this idea of checks and balances seems1804to escape certain folk in the chamber. I really want to ask you1805just a couple of questions to make sure I am not the one that1806has lost my marbles.1807    Who has the right to conduct oversight, or let me ask you1808this way, does Congress have the power to conduct Federal1809oversight over detention facilities?1810    Mr. Houser. Yes, ma'am. Quite frankly, a bit of confusion1811that I have been hearing today. Oversight by Congress is, of1812course, mandated by law.1813    Additionally, oversight also, not only in the immigration1814space, protects the migrants, but also protects law enforcement1815through public safety and making sure they have the resources1816they need.1817    In my position, over 15 years at the department, I oversaw1818hundreds of visits by Congressional Members, advocacy groups,1819immigration groups, and law enforcement groups. In no way did I1820ever see this sort of situation that we saw in Delaney Hall1821where there was a powder keg driven by the political theater1822being driven by the White House.1823    Ms. Crockett. That is exactly right. That is actually why I1824wanted to make sure I talked about the fact that you had1825credentials and you have actually been in this space.1826    That was not normal. The idea that they would somehow say1827that it is their colleagues that were the ones that were1828driving it, which is why I made sure that I showed video1829footage of Representative McIver very calmly telling them why1830she was there.1831    Frankly, it is sad that we do have to go through this kind1832of political theater. Because listening, we all know what it1833is. That is why they hired everybody from Fox News, because all1834they are trying to do is put on for a show.1835    This is not the Apprentice show. This is supposed to be1836about the American people. I want us to start to refocus our1837attention on the American people and stop demonizing every1838doggone person that ends up in custody of ICE, because they are1839not necessarily demons just because ICE decided to round them1840up.1841    So, thank you for your testimony.1842    Mr. Houser. Can I answer that question?1843    Mr. Van Drew. No. The gentlelady yields back. The Committee1844will be in order. I understand your enthusiasm, but we have1845rules in the way we run the Committee for both sides of the1846aisle.1847    With that being said, I will recognize the gentleman from1848the great State of Ohio, the Chair of the whole Judiciary1849Committee, Congressman Jordan.1850    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Mechkowski, who are1851all these people in ICE detention facilities that Democrats1852want on the street?1853    Who are these folks? Are they all just apple-pie asylum-1854seeking folks? Or who else might be in there?1855    Mr. Mechkowski. Sir, thank you for the question. First and1856foremost, they are immigration law violators. They violated the1857basic laws, the immigration laws that are codified by Congress.1858I will say it again.1859    Chair Jordan. So, they broke the law.1860    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1861    Chair Jordan. That is one.1862    Mr. Mechkowski. That is number, first and foremost. They1863are not a United States citizen.1864    Chair Jordan. Any of them violent? In addition to breaking1865the law, are any of them violent people inside these detention1866centers?1867    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely, sir.1868    Chair Jordan. Any of them gang members?1869    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely, sir.1870    Chair Jordan. Any of those members of MS-13?1871    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely, sir.1872    Chair Jordan. Any of those Tren de Aragua gang members?1873    Mr. Mechkowski. Again, sir, yes.1874    Chair Jordan. So, they are not just all warm and fuzzy1875folks that the Democrats want out on the street, right?1876    They are bad guys. Some of them are bad guys, really bad1877guys. Some of them are just asylum seekers, but some of them1878really bad guys. Is that fair to say?1879    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir. It is fair to say.1880    Chair Jordan. Yes, because you worked in these facilities.1881Is that right?1882    Mr. Mechkowski. I have worked in them, sir, yes.1883    Chair Jordan. You know them better than anyone in this1884hearing room. Is that fair to say?1885    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1886    Chair Jordan. OK. Before they go to detention, they have to1887get apprehended somewhere. They have to get arrested or taken1888into custody by ICE, is that right?1889    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1890    Chair Jordan. You have got to get them somewhere. Maybe it1891is on the border, maybe it is somewhere else. You have to get1892them before you take them to the ICE detention facility.1893    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1894    Chair Jordan. OK. Now, did you ever think that you would1895see Democrat mayors in all kinds of urban areas around this1896country, tell, and Democrat city councils pass resolutions,1897say, don't work with ICE when they come to apprehend gang1898members, bad guys, MS-13 violent offenders?1899    Did you ever think you would see that?1900    Mr. Mechkowski. Not here in the United States, sir.1901    Chair Jordan. That is exactly what is happening around the1902country, isn't it?1903    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir. In my--I am sorry, in my home1904State of New Jersey, that is a fact.1905    Chair Jordan. Yes. It has happened everywhere. New Jersey,1906Denver, Boston, you name it, it has happened.1907    Did you ever think you would see Governors and State1908legislatures do the same thing and say, you know what, our1909whole darn State is going to be a sanctuary State? Don't work1910with ICE when they are coming to enforce the law.1911    Did you ever think you would see that?1912    Mr. Mechkowski. No, sir.1913    Chair Jordan. Did you ever think you would see judges, in1914their chambers, tell the bad guy, hey, talk to his lawyer, hey,1915slip out the back door because the ICE agents are coming in the1916front door to enforce Federal law?1917    Did you ever think you would see that?1918    Mr. Mechkowski. No, sir.1919    Chair Jordan. Did you ever think you would see what1920happened last week or two weeks ago, I should say, in New1921Jersey? Did you ever think you would see Members of Congress1922engage in that kind of behavior?1923    Mr. Mechkowski. Sir, after what I witnessed in 2018, yes,1924in New York City, I didn't put it past anybody. I find that1925behavior to be absurd.1926    Chair Jordan. Well, in other words, Mr. Mechkowski, it has1927gotten so bad, nothing surprises you now with what the Left is1928going to do.1929    Mr. Mechkowski. Nothing, sir.1930    Chair Jordan. I know. That is where the American people1931are. That is why they appreciate what the Trump Administration1932is doing. Why is it better to arrest people at the jails or at1933the courthouse, Mr. Mechkowski, then it is out on the street?1934Why is that better?1935    Mr. Mechkowski. I believe, my colleague touched on it, but1936it is much safer for the alien, the person involved. It is also1937safer for the general public, most importantly, the officers.1938The rule of thumb is safety first.1939    Chair Jordan. It is safer for everyone, right?1940    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.1941    Chair Jordan. It is safer for everyone. Safer for the1942migrants, safer for law enforcement, and safer for the general1943public. You don't want to happen what has happened already1944because of the crazy Left-winged policies that some of these1945cities and States, and now judge, have.1946    When you could be, you send two, it is cheaper for the1947taxpayers. Instead of sending six guys to arrest them on the1948street, you can send two guys to get him at the courthouse or1949at the jail.1950    That side says, no, we are for the sanctuary policies. We1951are for making it tougher on law enforcement. We are for1952endangering the community. We are for making it tougher on the1953migrant and going out and arresting him on the street.1954    Really, one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Would1955you agree, Mr. Mechkowski?1956    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir. To your point, we talk about1957sanctuary cities, and my colleague was mentioning like,1958deportation officers needing to be on the street.1959    Imagine if they would just honor detainers. They rolled1960over into custody and I could send people over there to pick1961them up in the facility, not taking the officers away from an1962enforcement action.1963    OK, so deportation officers are very vital.1964    Chair Jordan. Yes.1965    Mr. Mechkowski. The peaceful transfer from one facility to1966the other is just commonsense, sir.1967    Chair Jordan. No. We call that, in economics, we call that1968opportunity cost, right? Because it is safer for the officer,1969safer for the public, and safer for the migrant.1970    It also, when you have to send six of them out on the1971street, there is the opportunity lost that you now have four1972extra agents there when they could be out doing other good work1973and protecting the public. That is how dumb, there is no other1974word for it, how dumb this whole sanctuary policy is.1975    Thank you for your work.1976    Mr. Van Drew. The Chair from Ohio yields back. I recognize1977the gentleman, the Ranking Member from the great State of1978Maryland, Mr. Raskin.1979    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Chair Van Drew. Even ICE and the1980Department of Homeland Security recognize that, ``Any Member of1981Congress has the right to show up for an inspection at one of1982our facilities in their oversight capability.''1983    Mr. Houser, is that the general policy that you know?1984    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.1985    Mr. Raskin. OK. ICE has also, along with lots of other1986parts of the administration, has been repudiated by the Federal1987judiciary, including the Supreme Court. There are now more than1988160 preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders1989that have been entered by Federal judges, Republican1990appointees, Democratic appointees, against a reign of1991lawlessness, in complete disregard for the Constitution.1992    President Trump has had to be instructed to bring back a1993man who the Department of Justice admitted had been deported1994due to an administrative error. He was sent to a torturous1995prison in El Salvador due to what they confessed was1996administrative error.1997    Do you agree that ICE has been violating the law repeatedly1998over the last few months?1999    Mr. Houser. Sir, I would say the administration and the2000White House have been directing lawless action.2001    Mr. Raskin. The U.S. Supreme Court even had to issue an2002emergency order at 1 a.m. in the morning on April 19th, to stop2003an unlawful attempt by the administration to conduct a mass2004deportation of Venezuelans without any due process whatsoever.2005    They told them to turn the vans and the buses around. There2006had been no hearings, no opportunity to be represented, no2007opportunity to hear even the charges against them, no court2008orders.2009    Just this last Friday, the Supreme Court upheld this ban on2010deportations, reaffirming once again that every immigrant in2011the country is entitled to due process. The two most beautiful2012words in the English language.2013    It is due process that separates our rights and freedoms2014from arbitrary power by the State. If you have a single2015libertarian bone in your body, you will understand what due2016process is all about.2017    Now, why is Congressional oversight important, Mr. Houser,2018if the courts are there as a backstop against lawlessness by an2019Executive Branch?2020    Mr. Houser. Sir, Congress' role, especially in immigration2021enforcement, is extremely critical for just the simple fact2022that we have tens of thousands of human beings in custody.2023Their care and the carrying out of our public safety, and our2024law enforcement operations, need critical oversight and2025accountability.2026    Mr. Raskin. So, when you were Chief of Staff at ICE, how2027many Congressional delegations would you say happened at ICE2028facilities?2029    Mr. Houser. Hundreds, sir. As we have all talked about, we2030saw large demands and migratory flow to the border. We were2031dealing with bipartisan visits continuously week after week.2032    Mr. Raskin. These were Democrats and Republicans together2033coming to visit?2034    Mr. Houser. Yes.2035    Mr. Raskin. So, there is nothing strange about the Members2036of Congress doing it. Both parties have done it right?2037    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.2038    Mr. Raskin. Did anything like what just occurred at Delaney2039Hall, where the Members of Congress were pushed and manhandled2040and threatened with arrest and there was a melee, did anything2041like that ever happen in your experience?2042    Mr. Houser. No, sir. What I saw there was sort of this2043distilling of what I consider the direction of enforcement,2044immigration enforcement, and the political theater of this.2045    That was the outcome that some people in the White House2046wanted. They are putting that pressure both on the nonmigrants,2047that are noncriminal, that don't have final order removals, and2048also on the ICE officers.2049    Mr. Raskin. Well, you mentioned the phrase political2050theater several times, and that is interesting to me. I2051remember at the end of the Biden Administration, when there was2052a struggle to get the two parties together and there was2053agreement, a bipartisan agreement on legislation at the border.2054    You had the most conservative Republicans in the Senate2055hailing it, and saying it is a huge breakthrough. You had2056liberal Democrats getting behind it and everybody was saying,2057well, it is not perfect, but we will do this.2058    It was sailing through the Senate, it is coming over to the2059House, and then President Trump, former President Trump at that2060point, announced he was totally opposed to it. He didn't want2061border legislation. He wanted a border crisis to run against.2062In other words, he wanted political theater. I wonder, was that2063your perception of that same episode?2064    Mr. Houser. Absolutely, sir. When you watch the videos of2065what happened at Delaney Hall, ICE officers are trained from2066the beginning of when they enter the agency, on assessing2067threat and risk. Clearly, they sort of apply that threat and2068risk to what they carry out in operations.2069    I believe everybody on this planet would agree that they2070allowed the Congresswoman to then enter the facility and take2071the tour. The idea that there was outside political pressure2072influence directed at ICE agents, and it created this powder2073keg of what happened there is pretty clear and logical to me.2074    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My time is up.2075    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the Ranking Member. I am going to2076yield five minutes to myself.2077    I like to keep things simple sometimes. I am from Jersey,2078too. Sometimes simple truths really kind of display more2079complex truths as well.2080    There are a few simple truths. Let me, I am going to ask2081all of you, and I am going to ask for a really quick like yes2082or no answer.2083    I believe, open borders, sanctuary cities, and sanctuary2084States, where you are releasing individuals back into the2085community, including dangerous criminals who have been guilty2086and have committed crimes like rape on minors, murder,2087disfigurement, dealing and selling drugs just to name a few,2088gun, violating gun laws, and all of that, I think that is2089really bad.2090    I don't think we should let that happen. Let's really get2091down to what this is all about. The last administration, we let2092people that come across the border and come into the United2093States of America.2094    Would you agree with me that this is bad, Mr. Arthur,2095quickly, yes or no?2096    Mr. Arthur. Yes, I do, sir.2097    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Marino, yes or no?2098    Mr. Marino. Yes.2099    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Mechkowski, yes or no?2100    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely sir, yes.2101    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Houser, yes or no?2102    Mr. Houser. Yes, sir.2103    Mr. Van Drew. OK. So, that is something we have already2104done better on. We are straightening that out now. We are not2105allowing those individuals to come into the United States of2106America.2107    Do you believe, as I do, that as the Members of Congress,2108and you can State this, don't be afraid to say it, that we have2109an added level of responsibility the way that we comport2110ourselves?2111    Whether we are Republicans, whether we are Democrats,2112whatever we are, that we should behave in a certain fashion. We2113write laws. So, you would believe that we would follow the rule2114and believe in the rule of law itself.2115    I believe we do have oversight. It is a process. You behave2116a certain way. It doesn't mean that you agree with everybody.2117It doesn't mean you don't investigate. That you as a Member of2118Congress, as a Congressman or a Congresswoman, behave in an2119appropriate fashion lawfully, not in a combative assault type2120of way.2121    Would you believe that this is true, Mr. Arthur, yes or no?2122    Mr. Arthur. Yes. I attempted to comport myself that way2123when I was an oversight counsel.2124    Mr. Van Drew. I am sure you did. Mr. Marino, yes or no?2125    Mr. Marino. Absolutely, yes.2126    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Mechkowski, yes or no?2127    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.2128    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Houser, yes or no?2129    Mr. Houser. Absolutely, sir. It is what the military2130taught.2131    Mr. Van Drew. So, we saw the video. You saw the video. I2132don't have to say any words. Look at the video. Even who came2133here with a certain focus in your mind and were told to believe2134something, look at the video and see what it shows. That is all2135I will say.2136    Third, do you think there is a financial effect on all of2137us in America, while we debate the great issues of the day, how2138much should we spend?2139    Where should we spend it, what should we do with the fiscal2140resources that we have, with the dollars that we bring in2141through taxation?2142    Do you believe it is inappropriate to fund illegals,2143including illegal criminals, which we have. I could ask you2144that question.2145    In fact, I will ask you a question very quickly. In the2146past administration, did we at times fund illegal aliens? I am2147sorry, illegal criminal aliens?2148    Mr. Arthur. Absolutely.2149    Mr. Van Drew. Did we fund illegal criminal aliens?2150    Mr. Marino. Yes, sir.2151    Mr. Van Drew. Did we fund illegal criminal aliens in the2152last administration?2153    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.2154    Mr. Van Drew. Did we, Mr. Houser, fund illegal--2155    Mr. Houser. What does fund mean, sir, like?2156    Mr. Van Drew. Give them stuff. Give them housing, clothing,2157transportation, education, and in some cases debit cards. Did2158we do that?2159    Mr. Houser. We have provided resources for migrants for 602160years.2161    Mr. Van Drew. Right. We funded them.2162    Mr. Houser. Sixty years, sir.2163    Mr. Van Drew. We funded them. Not illegal bad people we2164didn't. No, I disagree. That is wrong. Would you believe that2165costs people, we don't even have to go into it.2166    Of course, it costs the taxpayer. Of course, when resources2167are sparse and we will all argue about Medicaid and SNAP and2168all these things. How about we don't give money to people who2169are really bad people doing bad things, send them back to their2170country of origin. Maybe that is a good idea.2171    I did want to address the Ranking Member, not the Ranking2172Member of the Subcommittee. Mr. Raskin, he always loves to talk2173about the Senate bill. So, I always have to talk about it as2174well.2175    It was a bad bill. I didn't know, I knew it was a bad bill2176the minute we saw it in judiciary. It had nothing to do with2177Donald Trump. It codified illegal aliens. It allowed up to 1.82178million to come into the country before anything was done.2179    It did nothing about catch and release. It did nothing2180about the wall. It didn't rebuild the wall. It did nothing2181with, in the past we had Title 42, and it didn't do anything2182about the Remain in Mexico policy.2183    Now, really quickly, would you agree that some of those2184policies in the past administration were good and that we2185really didn't need a whole lot more legislation that we could2186have done it through the President at the time, under the Biden2187Administration, yes or no?2188    Mr. Arthur. Absolutely.2189    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Marino, yes or no?2190    Mr. Marino. Yes, sir.2191    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Mechkowski, yes or no?2192    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.2193    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Houser?2194    Mr. Houser. Sir, can you just give me the question one more2195time?2196    Mr. Van Drew. All the things that I just mentioned, all the2197things that could be done to protect our borders, we had the2198tremendous, the biggest disaster in border crossing in our2199American history, couldn't we have prevented that purely by2200Presidential action, not by a faulty bad Senate Bill?2201    I think you are going to see a good bill come out of this2202Congress.2203    Mr. Houser. Sir, I would only State that this is only the2204first a hundred days. You are going to see border surges.2205    Mr. Van Drew. I didn't ask that question.2206    Mr. Houser. Sir, we don't need the Alien and Sedition Act,2207carrying immigration--2208    Mr. Van Drew. Nobody is talking about that.2209    Mr. Houser. You have Title 8.2210    Mr. Van Drew. Do you believe that we could have done better2211in the Biden Administration through Presidential action than we2212did?2213    Mr. Houser. Sir, clearly--2214    Mr. Van Drew. Yes or no?2215    Mr. Houser. At the beginning sir.2216    Mr. Van Drew. Yes or no?2217    Mr. Houser. There were mistakes.2218    Mr. Van Drew. Yes or no? Yes. We screwed up. We did a bad2219job in the Biden Administration. Even you have got to kind of2220admit that.2221    Now, we are trying to straighten out the mess. With that, I2222will yield back.2223    I yield to the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Moskowitz. You2224may even have a joke or two for us.2225    Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Not a joke, just a2226quick clarification. The bill that he is talking about that was2227terrible, was a Republican bill. So, it is fine. It happens. I2228just want a quick clarification of it.2229    Mr. Van Drew. If it is bad, it is bad. I don't care what2230party.2231    Mr. Moskowitz. No, no. I just wanted to remind people that2232it was a conservative, very conservative Republican Senator who2233had drafted that bill.2234    With that, I want to yield as much time as she may consume2235to the Ranking Member, Jasmine Crockett.2236    Ms. Crockett. All right. Mr. Houser, it is back to us. I2237like games every once in a while. I have some questions.2238    The questions are going to be, is it political theater or2239progress? You ready? The first question is going to be doing an2240Executive Order revoking birthright citizenship, political2241theater or progress?2242    Mr. Houser. Political theater. It doesn't help the mission2243of ICE.2244    Ms. Crockett. OK. How about revoking student visas?2245    Mr. Houser. It takes up the time of ICE officers. It is2246political theater, and it takes away from the National security2247and public safety mission.2248    Ms. Crockett. How about bashing car windows of people with2249no criminal record?2250    Mr. Houser. That is driven from quotas of arrests being2251driven by the White House. That is politicization of ICE2252immigration enforcement, so it is political theater.2253    Ms. Crockett. How about deporting people who are even2254citizens? That is not even deportation, but you know what I am2255saying.2256    Mr. Houser. It is political theater. I believe that this2257White House is getting the outcome reaction that they wanted2258and they desire.2259    Ms. Crockett. How about arresting political opponents?2260    Mr. Houser. That would be political theater.2261    Ms. Crockett. Yes. So, here is the deal. I know that you2262have been cutoff a number of times as you have tried to give2263answers to various questions. Thank you so much for explaining2264that even this Committee hearing is actually a bunch of2265political theater because there is a lot of things that we2266should be talking about.2267    We could be talking about the fact that we are currently in2268reconciliation. While everyone else has been told to do things2269such as make sure that you take food out of people's mouths,2270make sure that you get rid of people's healthcare, make sure2271that you are harming our Federal workers even more by making2272sure that the resources that they need to be able to do their2273job just kind of disappear.2274    At the same time, I think the way that Mr. Moskowitz2275figured it would be approximately $44,000 as it relates to a2276bonus for each ICE agent. Is that correct?2277    Mr. Moskowitz. It is incorrect. It was $42,000.2278    Ms. Crockett. OK. My bad. The reality is that we do have2279real problems. I don't know how we are going to get to real2280solutions if we continue to just make everything about politics2281as it was properly outlined by the gentleman from Florida that2282was a Republican bill.2283    I will be perfectly honest with you; I wasn't really a big2284fan of the bill myself on my side. So, I know that there was a2285lot of conservative stuff in that bill that was going to be2286harmful.2287    With that, I am going to yield back to the gentleman from2288Florida.2289    Mr. Moskowitz. Yes. I am going to yield time to the Ranking2290Member in a second.2291    Mr. Marino, on that topic of bonuses, just really quick, do2292you support ICE agents getting $42,000 worth of bonuses? There2293is $800 billion for bonuses. OK.2294    Did I say billion? I am sorry, million. I apologize, $8002295million in there for bonuses. Do you support that?2296    Mr. Marino. Yes. What kind of bonuses are we talking about?2297Are we talking about retention bonuses? Or are we talking about2298hiring bonuses?2299    Mr. Moskowitz. This is a great--Mr. Marino, great question.2300They didn't say at all in the backup. There was no2301documentation at all about what the bonuses were for or what it2302would be.2303    It was just $800 million for bonuses. It sounded like a lot2304of money for Federal employees for bonuses. Not that we don't2305want to treat our Federal employees great. Of course we do. I2306had suggested $500 million for bonuses. They said no. The $5002307million sounds a little better, right?2308    Mr. Marino. Well look, I--2309    Mr. Moskowitz. Or zero? Are you at zero for bonuses, maybe?2310    Mr. Marino. I never received a $42,000 bonus.2311    Mr. Moskowitz. Good. Perfect. We agree.2312    Mr. Marino. Not while I was working for the Federal2313Government.2314    Mr. Moskowitz. I would like to know--2315    Mr. Marino. However, times are different. Recruiting is2316tougher and retention is a challenge. If that is something that2317it is needed for, I would support it.2318    Mr. Moskowitz. No problem. So, do you support those bonuses2319for NOAA, FEMA, the Pentagon, all the departments, or just ICE?2320    Mr. Marino. I would support strategic use of retention2321bonuses where they were needed.2322    Mr. Moskowitz. OK. I would like to yield the remainder of2323my time to Mr. Raskin.2324    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Moskowitz. Mr. Houser introduced2325the important idea of political theater. You have introduced2326the idea of bureaucratic bloat. Our Ranking Member on the2327Subcommittee has talked about the assault on the living2328standards of millions and millions of people in the country and2329their healthcare.2330    I just want to add one final piece of this, which is that2331Donald Trump and his family have been making more than a2332billion dollars a month since they got into office on the2333crypto scam. Now, he is collecting a $400 million airplane from2334the dictator of Qatar.2335    There is an absolute rip-off of the taxpayers taking place2336in a prostitution of the Presidency. That completes the picture2337for what is taking place in our country today.2338    I yield back to the gentleman. Thank you.2339    Mr. Moskowitz. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2340    Mr. Van Drew. The gentlemen from Florida yields. I2341recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Dr. Onder.2342    Mr. Onder. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all our2343witnesses for being here. Mr. Houser, thank you for your2344service to our country as a combat veteran.2345    No thank you to the Biden Administration for precipitating2346the worst border crisis in American history. I would say that2347Joe Biden and his administration were incompetent, but I think2348it was intentional. It was intentional that he flooded at least2349eight million illegal aliens into our country. What is the2350Democrat solution?2351    The Democrat solution seems to be, unless you have been2352convicted of a violent crime, you can stay. Not only can you2353stay, but we will pass amnesty bills to support you.2354    We will block enforcement of immigration laws and endanger2355ICE officers with sanctuary city policies. We will give you2356welfare. We will give you healthcare. We will give you free2357education.2358    If you want to come here as a birthright tourist, your kids2359will be citizens, and that will help you to stay into the2360country permanently. We will give you free stays at luxury2361hotels. Oh yes, Biden and his administration have really done a2362great job.2363    Donald Trump has lowered illegal border crossings by 952364percent. Somehow that doesn't count. There are going to be2365surges later on don't you know.2366    Well, this all gets away from the purpose of this hearing,2367which is the fact that activist protests, including those by2368the Members of Congress, obstruct immigration enforcement and2369undermined public safety.2370    In April and May alone, there were more than 142371demonstrations planned across 12 States targeting ICE detention2372centers and related facilities. These types of demonstrations2373physically impede ICE detention center operations on purpose2374and inhibit the successful processing of detained illegal2375aliens.2376    I do care whether illegal aliens have committed violent2377crimes, of course. Every illegal immigrant, as you have pointed2378out, Mr. Mechkowski, has broken the law and needs to leave.2379    To me, due process is, you prove that they are not here2380legally, they get the hell out of our country.2381    Mr. Raskin. Would the gentlemen yield for a friendly2382question?2383    Mr. Onder. No, I do not. It is my time. You have spoken2384about four times so far in this hearing.2385    For example, on May 4, 2025, activists protested a an ICE2386field office as a detention bus left, with law enforcement2387agents forced to surround the bus, to prevent interference,2388diverting staff from other duties and delaying detainee2389transfers. The protests directly impeded law enforcement and2390Federal law, and put ICE officers at risk.2391    Mr. Mechkowski, do law enforcement officers and ICE2392officers, do they receive training on how to deal with crowds2393and riots?2394    Mr. Mechkowski. Sir, yes, sir. They do.2395    Mr. Onder. I am sorry. The time clock is, I don't know how2396much, I have some time left, but the time clock went black. Oh,2397there we go. OK.2398    How are ICE officials trained to react when a gate would be2399broken and stormed by a group of raucous protestors?2400    Mr. Mechkowski. Sir, from what I saw in the video, Ithey2401handled themselves the way they could, the best they could in2402that situation. What I saw was a lot of belly bumping from2403lawmakers putting their hands on the officers. Whether you2404agree or not agree, it is unlawful. It shouldn't happen.2405    Mr. Onder. There is assault and there is battery. When you2406touch another person without their consent, that is battery.2407Battery of a law enforcement officer, is that a violation of2408the law?2409    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.2410    Mr. Onder. Even if you are a Member of Congress?2411    Mr. Mechkowski. Yes, sir.2412    Mr. Onder. We as Members of Congress are not above the law.2413    Mr. Mechkowski. Absolutely, sir. They were trying to2414protect maybe the facility. There was a lot of commotion there.2415    Their No. 1 concern at that moment is making sure nobody2416enters a secure environment that could pose risk to a detainee2417or a Congress person or anybody else in that situation, sir.2418    Mr. Onder. Right, right. Why do DHS and ICE officers, why2419do they wear body cams?2420    Mr. Houser. Sir, can I answer that question?2421    Mr. Onder. Sure.2422    Mr. Houser. As Chief of Staff at ICE, I implemented the2423first policy for body-worn cameras. They created a pilot within2424Homeland Security Investigations to carry that out.2425    That in the last year has been rescinded by the current2426administration.2427    Mr. Onder. OK.2428    Mr. Houser. So, they are not funding, and they are not2429moving forward with the body-worn camera program under the2430Trump Administration. I was glad to see, quite frankly, in the2431criminal complaint against the Congresswoman that some of the2432officers still had their cameras on.2433    Mr. Onder. Yes.2434    Mr. Houser. So, hopefully this Congress--2435    Mr. Onder. We have footage--2436    Mr. Houser. Commit too fully--2437    Mr. Onder. We have footage of officers being assaulted.2438    Mr. Arthur. Mr. Onder, if I could respond to that question?2439    Mr. Onder. Yes.2440    Mr. Arthur. It is a twofold purpose. First, it protects the2441officer from any allegations that they engaged in violations of2442civil rights laws. Second, it also reminds the officer of the2443fact that somebody is always watching.2444    Mr. Onder. Mr. Arthur, why do ICE officers occasionally2445wear masks?2446    Mr. Arthur. ICE officers occasionally wear a mask because2447unfortunately, in this heated environment, they get doxxed,2448they get attacked, and they get threatened at their homes.2449    People disclose where they live, disclose their phone2450numbers, and where their children go to school.2451    Mr. Onder. Well, thank you so much. Thank you all for your2452testimony. I yield back.2453    Mr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields back. That concludes2454today's hearing. We thank our witnesses.2455    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, I do have a UC request. Is that OK?2456    Mr. Van Drew. Absolutely.2457    Mr. Raskin. Two articles: First, this is a letter from2458members of the New Jersey delegation to the Committee2459condemning efforts by the administration to politicize lawful2460Congressional oversight. By the way, that is some of the New2461Jersey delegation.2462    Second, this one is from the Washington Post, ``Elon Musk,2463Enemy of Open Borders, Launched His Career as an Illegal.''2464    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.2465    Ms. Crockett. I have got a UC as well. This is from the2466Associated Press, ''President Trump's First Three Children Did2467Not Receive Birthright Citizenship.'' This is an article that2468came out of the fact that Donald Trump, Jr., as well as Eric2469and Ivanka were born to a woman who was not a U.S. citizen at2470the time.2471    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection. This concludes today's2472hearing. We thank our witnesses for appearing before the2473Subcommittee and spending their time with us.2474    Without objection, all Members will have five legislative2475days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses2476or additional materials for the record.2477    Without objection, this hearing is adjourned.2478    [Whereupon, at 4:27 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]24792480    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the2481Subcommittee on Oversight can be found at: https://2482docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=118277.