J.Hrg.119

1[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                        CHINA'S WAR ON RELIGION:5                    THE THREAT TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM6                           AND WHY IT MATTERS7                          TO THE UNITED STATES89=======================================================================1011                                HEARING1213                               BEFORE THE1415              CONGRESSIONAL-EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA1617                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                             FIRST SESSION2021                               __________2223                           NOVEMBER 20, 20252425                               __________2627 Printed for the use of the Congressional-Executive Commission on China2829 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3031              Available at www.cecc.gov or www.govinfo.gov3233                                __________3435                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE3662-143 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20263738-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------3940              CONGRESSIONAL-EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA4142                    LEGISLATIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS4344Senate                                     House4546DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska, Chair          CHRIS SMITH, New Jersey, Co-chair47TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa48JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 ELISE STEFANIK, New York49TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            DALE STRONG, Alabama50ANDY KIM, New Jersey                 JEN KIGGANS, Virginia51LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       JAMES P. McGOVERN, Massachusetts52                                     THOMAS SUOZZI, New York53                                     SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM, Virginia5455                     EXECUTIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS5657                            To be appointed5859                      Scott Flipse, Staff Director6061                   Piero Tozzi, Deputy Staff Director6263                                  (ii)6465                            C O N T E N T S6667                              ----------6869                               Statements7071Opening Statement of Hon. Dan Sullivan, a U.S. Senator from72  Alaska; Chair, Congressional-Executive Commission on China.....     173Statement of Hon. Chris Smith, a Representative from New Jersey74  and Co-chair, Congressional-Executive Commission on China......     375Statement of Hon. Jeff Merkley, a Senator from Oregon............     576Statement of Hon. James P. McGovern, a Representative from77  Massachusetts..................................................     578Statement of Sam Brownback, Ambassador at Large for International79  Religious Freedom (2018-2021), Governor of Kansas (2011-2018),80  U.S.81  Senator (1996-2011)............................................     882Statement of Ismail ``Ma Ju'' Juma, Hui Muslim human rights83  advocate.......................................................    1084Statement of Bhuchung K. Tsering, leader, International Campaign85  for Tibet Research and Monitoring Unit.........................    1286Statement of Bob Fu, founder and president, ChinaAid.............    1487Statement of Grace Jin Drexel, daughter of Pastor Ezra Jin.......    158889                                APPENDIX90                          Prepared Statements9192Brownback, Ambassador Sam........................................    3193Juma, Ismail.....................................................    3494Tsering, Bhuchung K..............................................    3695Fu, Bob..........................................................    4196Drexel, Grace Jin................................................    659798Sullivan, Hon. Dan...............................................    6999Smith, Hon. Chris................................................    70100McGovern, Hon. James P...........................................    71101102                       Submissions for the Record103104Questions for the Record from Hon. Dan Sullivan and Hon. Dale105  Strong.........................................................    73106Statement of His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, Tenzin107  Gyatso,108  affirming the continuation of the institution of Dalai Lama,109  July 2, 2025,110  submitted by Bob Fu............................................    79111Statement of His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, Tenzin112  Gyatso, on the issue of his reincarnation, September 24, 2011,113  submitted by Bob Fu............................................    81114Translation of oral statement of Bob Fu (Chinese)................    91115``CCP's Growing Threats to Religious Freedom in Hong Kong,'' by116  Frances Hui, Policy and Advocacy Coordinator, Committee for117  Freedom in Hong Kong Foundation................................    95118Statement of Cynthia Sun and Danielle Wang, Falun Dafa Info119  Center.........................................................   101120``The Situation Facing the Catholic Church in China,'' by Nina121  Shea, Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, and Director of its122  Center for Religious Freedom...................................   109123``The U.S. Response to China's War on Uyghurs,'' by Omer Kanat,124  Executive Director, Uyghur Human Rights Project................   117125126CECC Truth in Testimony Disclosure Form..........................   125127Witness Biographies..............................................   126128129                                 (iii)130131                        CHINA'S WAR ON RELIGION:132                    THE THREAT TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM133                           AND WHY IT MATTERS134                          TO THE UNITED STATES135136                              ----------137138                      THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2025139140                            Congressional-Executive141                                       Commission on China,142                                                    Washington, DC.143    The hearing was held from 9:32 a.m. to 11:13 a.m., in room144106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Washington, DC, Senator145Dan146Sullivan, Chair, Congressional-Executive Commission on China,147presiding.148    Also present: Representative Smith, Co-chair, Senator149Merkley, and Representatives McGovern and Kiggans.150151  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAN SULLIVAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM152   ALASKA; CHAIR, CONGRESSIONAL-EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA153154    Chair Sullivan. The Commission will come to order. Thank155you to our witnesses and to all who are following this hearing156online. I want to thank my fellow commissioners, Senators, and157Congressmen, a bipartisan group, by the way--a very important158part of this Commission's history. Today's message is159straightforward: The Chinese Communist Party, the CCP, is160waging a systematic campaign to bend every faith in China to161Party rule. CCP authorities aim for the complete subordination162of religious belief to state ideology, re-engineering doctrine,163leadership, education, architecture, and even online worship.164The CCP is not content to police behavior. It wants to control165the conscience and intrude on the most powerful and personal166relationship there is--the one individuals have with God.167    The title of this hearing asks, Why does religious freedom168in China matter to the United States? We certainly want to hear169our witnesses answer this question, and we have a very170distinguished panel here. But let me offer one reason why this171hearing matters, by reading part of a sermon by detained Pastor172Wang Yi, who met with President George W. Bush in the Oval173Office in 2006 and was just awarded one of NED's highest174prizes. In one of his last sermons before being detained,175Pastor Yi said, ``The rulers of this country are waging a war176in the Uyghur region, in Tibet, in Shanghai, in Beijing. And177the rulers who are waging this war have chosen for themselves178an enemy that can never be imprisoned, an enemy that can never179be destroyed, an enemy that can never be controlled or180subdued--namely, the soul of human beings.''181    Pastor Wang Yi may now be in prison, but he and millions of182others like him are not subdued. That is why this hearing183matters. Not just for one community or one country or one184faith, but for the defense of human dignity and conscience185everywhere. The CCP wants believers in China to feel isolated186and forgotten. Our responsibility is to show them, and to show187Beijing, that they are neither. There are currently 1,647188documented religious cases in the CECC's Political Prisoner189Database, though that number may be 10 times higher when we190consider all those detained in the Uyghur region. At least a191dozen bishops and priests from my own Catholic Church and192Catholic faith are detained. We have documented imprisonment,193torture, and worse for such simple acts as owning a prayer194book, growing a beard, or gathering for worship.195    My mother was a very devout Catholic. Very early on in the1961980s--it's a long story--but she went to the Soviet Union on a197trip. My courageous mom brought a bunch of Bibles to hand out198to the long-suffering people of Russia. Courageous. My mom's no199longer with me today, but that was one of the stories I told at200her funeral. Courageous Catholic, bringing the faith to201starving Russians who longed for the faith and couldn't get it.202And she brought them small Bibles.203    Freedom of religion is under assault worldwide. Witness204what is happening in Nigeria. But nowhere is the scale of the205threat greater than in China. There are an estimated 500206million in China whose faith traditions face some form of207restriction or control. Think about that number, 500 million.208And the CCP's grip on religion does not end at its borders.209Through transnational repression, it harasses exiled believers,210infiltrates religious communities abroad, and intimidates211diaspora groups to remain silent. Some of our witnesses have212personal experience with intimidation or transnational213repression right here in America. Since Xi Jinping came to214power, he has pushed an aggressive agenda to roll back what215little space for independent religion once existed and to216assert CCP dominance over all aspects of religious life.217    Christian pastors are prosecuted for fraud for accepting218charity, Uyghur Muslims are punished for reading the Qur'an at219home, Tibetan Buddhists are targeted for honoring the Dalai220Lama. Falun Gong practitioners are tortured for peaceful221meditation the Party cannot control. Across China, the Party222has closed churches, imprisoned pastors and priests, and223ordered the removal of Islamic and Tibetan Buddhist symbols224from buildings. We're here today because the right to believe225according to one's own conscience is not a privilege government226may grant or withhold. It is a universal human right, central227to human dignity and human flourishing. We now know that228religious freedom is a critical element in societies that are229stable and prosperous.230    Our own history, from the earliest colonies to the First231Amendment, reflects a simple truth--societies are freer,232fairer, and more stable when people are free to worship, to233practice their faith, and to live, speak, and act according to234their beliefs. The CCP fears the power of faith because it is a235source of values and moral authority it cannot control. That is236why it demands that crosses come down and portraits of Xi237Jinping go up. It is why Catholic priests must preach party238slogans alongside sacred texts. It is why so many religious239leaders and religious believers are jailed. To the CCP, faith240is not just a challenge, it is an existential threat to its241grip on power, and why it must be controlled or destroyed.242These brave witnesses at our hearing today send a message to243China that the U.S. Congress takes note. We are watching. The244soul of these human beings will not be subdued.245    I want to next turn to my co-chairman, Chairman Smith, for246his opening statement. Then I will also ask Senator Merkley and247Representative McGovern to make a statement, if they so choose.248Gentlemen, thank you, and again, to our courageous witnesses,249thank you very much.250    [The prepared statement of Chair Sullivan appears in the251Appendix.]252253 STATEMENT OF HON. CHRIS SMITH, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW254              JERSEY AND CO-CHAIR, CONGRESSIONAL-255                 EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA256257    Co-chair Smith. Mr. Chairman, thank you so very much for258convening this very important hearing, and for the sense of259urgency you and our distinguished witnesses are bringing to the260further deterioration of religious freedom in the People's261Republic of China. I say ``urgent'' because the Chinese262Communist Party, directed by General Secretary Xi Jinping, is263engaged in one of the most extensive crackdowns on the264Protestant Christian house church in 40 years. I also say265urgent because, as I look around the room, I see friends and so266many loved ones who have people who are either languishing in267prison or under house arrest. I look at Bob Fu. I mean, Bob Fu268has been a mentor to me personally, to my Subcommittee on Human269Rights, and to this Commission, for decades, speaking truth to270power eloquently and effectively, giving us so many insights--271and that goes for many of us in the House and Senate as well.272    I remember Frank Wolf and I, just parenthetically, were273once in Beijing meeting with house church leaders. Who were we274talking to on the line? Bob Fu from the embassy, as well as275from the van, getting further insight. So, Bob, thank you so276much. And of course, Ambassador Sam Brownback, who has277literally written the book on how--writing a book right now--on278how to combat this and to make it clear. What an ambassador at279large Sam Brownback has been, and his voice is incredibly280important. All of you have made such a difference. Sam, thank281you.282    I would note again, parenthetically, you mentioned, Mr.283Chairman, about Nigeria. Through a little snafu in scheduling,284I'm chairing a hearing on Nigeria at 11. So I'm going to have285to leave. But Sam testified at our last hearing on that and286made powerful statements about how not just Christians, but287Muslims are being killed, as the President just said,288conferring CPC status on Nigeria. And how very eloquently Sam289did it. This is an existential threat to the Christians, but290it's also the Muslims who are being killed if they don't291comport to Boko Haram and others. So Sam, thank you for that.292And we'll be doing more. We look forward to your voice at293future hearings to defend that.294    At its core, religious freedom is about the right of295conscience--what George Washington called that little spark of296celestial fire which is the inviolable domain of the heart of297every human being. I'm proud to say that--working with Mr.298McGovern as well as Senator Merkley--we've chaired 14 hearings299on religious freedom, or the lack of it, in China. I've worked300with my friends--and you, Chairman, are doing a great job, and301I do thank you--we all do--for that. When we say religious302freedom is a universal human right, it's because it's303guaranteed by a sovereign God who created human beings in his304own image and likeness, and imbued in all of us an inalienable305dignity and worth whether we were born in Washington or Wuhan.306It is thus not a Western construct but a universal one.307    Yet the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party,308leader of the world's largest atheistic state, would force his309own people to think otherwise. He would have the Chinese people310believe that religious freedom is not for them, that religion311itself is not for them, because the Party that he leads is312terrified of religious faith. They fear and they're scared of313any moral or spiritual authority outside the control of the314Party. And they punish worship of anyone but Xi Jinping.315Instead, the Chinese Communist Party wants to take control over316the heart, mind, and spirit of each citizen of China. And one317particularly ludicrous, yet equally insidious, example--in318September, the Cyberspace Administration of China launched a319two-month Clear and Bright Campaign that polices pessimism and320negative emotions, among other thought crimes. I mean, this is321theater of the absurd. It's also totalitarianism, pure and322simple. And totalitarian governments cannot abide freedom of323religion or belief, yet they cannot extinguish it. The church,324the believers, the Uyghurs, the Falun Gong practitioners, the325Tibetan Buddhists, all of them redouble their efforts to move326forward in their faith tradition. And this Commission, and this327Congress, and our country, and so many others do everything we328can to help them.329    When authorities shut down the Zion Church in Beijing, then330one of the city's largest, Pastor Ezra Jin took the church331nationwide by moving online, reaching more people than it ever332could have before. We are proud to have as one of our witnesses333Pastor Jin's daughter, Grace, who worked for the CECC. We thank334her for her tremendous insight and leadership, and her father335is another great hero.336    In Fujian province, authorities confined underground337Catholic Bishop Guo Xijin to his residence. And how did he338respond? He joyfully celebrated the 40th anniversary of his339priestly ordination by serving communion to pilgrims through340the bars of the chained gate outside his home. I mean,341irrepressible--will not give up. We need to stand in solidarity342with him and everyone like him. These are only a few examples.343We will continue on this Commission, I know, to push hard for344religious freedom.345    Again, we are inspired and informed by these tremendous346witnesses, Mr. Chairman, that you have assembled for this347hearing. I look forward to their testimony. I regret that I348will have to leave to chair the other hearing at 11, so I349apologize in advance.350    [The prepared statement of Co-chair Smith appears in the351Appendix.]352    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Chairman Smith.353    Now to my other co-chair, Senator Merkley.354355                STATEMENT OF HON. JEFF MERKLEY,356                   A U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON357358    Senator Merkley. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I'm always359humbled when I'm at these gatherings because our witnesses have360experienced so much in their personal lives, their families,361often their community, in terms of the challenges that they362have faced carrying the torch of religious freedom. I'm363particularly delighted to have a couple of you back who have364Senate connections. Senator Brownback--then became an365ambassador but certainly served here with distinction. Good to366have you back, Ambassador. And Grace, as mentioned by my367colleague, Congressman Smith, worked on this very Commission,368this Congressional-Executive Commission on China. So she is in369that place of carrying both the academic knowledge portfolio370but also the very personal advocacy with her family so affected371by the crackdown on religion in China.372    We have seen such suppression and oppression directed373against Christian congregations and leaders in China. We have374seen oppression against the Muslims and the genocide against375the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. We've seen the attempted erasure of376Tibetan culture and Buddhist religious practice. Under377President Xi's sinicization campaign, the Chinese government is378using pressure and coercion to do all they can to extinguish379religious communities and suppress the human soul. The U.S. has380in our very founding the aspiration for religious freedom, a381spirit we have carried for centuries. Certainly it brings us to382this type of advocacy today, for religious freedom not just383here in the United States but around the world. So welcome. And384like my colleague, we have another hearing on China upstairs at385the Foreign Relations Committee related to Taiwan. I apologize386I'll not be able to be here for the full testimony, but I will387be reading it all, hearing about it from my team, and388partnering with you as we go forward. Thank you.389    [The prepared statement of Senator Merkley appears in the390Appendix.]391    Chair Sullivan. Great. Thank you, Senator Merkley.392    Congressman McGovern.393394              STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES P. McGOVERN,395            A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM MASSACHUSETTS396397    Representative McGovern. Well, thank you. Good morning,398everybody. I want to thank Chair Sullivan and Co-chair Smith399for convening this important hearing. I want to thank Senator400Merkley and Representative Strong for their leadership on these401issues as well. You know, we have different political402philosophies, but we are together in championing human rights403and religious freedom. Religious freedom has been at the core404of the Commission's work since its founding, and it has been405the subject of numerous hearings and well-documented reporting.406I understand that the 2025 annual report is close to407finalization, and I look forward to its publication so that all408members can benefit from its analysis and its recom-409mendations. I commend the dedicated nonpartisan staff of the410Commission for their hard work in getting this 300-plus-page411report researched, written, and released. It's a lot of work,412and it's good work. And it's important work.413    Religious freedom is protected under Article 18 of the414International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which415affirms that every person has the right to freedom of thought,416conscience, and religion. In the United States, it is protected417by the First Amendment to the Constitution. Congress shall make418no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting419the free exercise thereof. We Americans are very proud of this420protection of our rights. As a practicing Catholic, I feel a421deep personal connection to the right to worship and believe422according to one's conscience. Defense of this fundamental423right in both national and international law is essential to424our work as public servants.425    China's constitution also provides that the state cannot426compel citizens to believe in or not to believe in any religion427or discriminate against citizens who believe in or do not428believe in any religion. But, as we will hear today, such429protection is honored in the breach. They don't respect that.430They don't follow it. This is a reminder that even the431strongest constitutional provisions on paper cannot protect432citizens' rights if those in power choose to disregard them for433political ends. You know, in 2022 I was honored to co-chair434this Commission's hearing on how Chinese authorities were435expanding digital tools to surveil and suppress online436religious expression. I am pleased that today's witnesses will437update us on the PRC's policies and tactics for coercive438control of religion and their impact on individuals and439communities.440    I welcome Ambassador Sam Brownback, who headed the State441Department's International Religious Freedom Office and remains442a powerful leader in the field. I look forward to the testimony443of those who will speak to the experiences of Hui Muslims,444Christians, and Tibetans under the PRC's ongoing repression. In445July, several U.N. special rapporteurs and working groups446issued a statement on the Chinese government's interference in447the succession of the Dalai Lama, and the enforced448disappearance of the 11th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima.449This is a U.S. priority, as Senator Marco Rubio and I put into450law in the Tibetan Policy and Support Act.451    We will also hear very personal testimony. Last month,452Chinese authorities launched a multicity crackdown on the453unregistered Zion Church and detained several individuals,454including Pastor Ezra Jin. Many of us condemned this violation.455His daughter, Grace Jin Drexel, joins us today to speak about456her father and call for his release. Grace was recently a staff457member at the CECC, helping raise awareness about prisoners of458conscience persecuted for their faith. Now her own father is459one. We stand with Grace and her family and join in their call.460We must commit our voices loudly and clearly to defend the461rights of those targeted for exercising their right to freedom462of thought, conscience, and belief, but to be effective, our463voices must carry moral credibility. I worry that we are not464living up to what is expected of us. The United States is best465when we lead by example. When we do not, we do a disservice to466those overseas we are trying to help.467    Earlier this week--you may have read this in the news--468congregants of a church in Charlotte, North Carolina scattered469into the woods when masked Federal agents arrived and detained470one of their members. The church has suspended services until471members feel safe to gather again without the threat of Border472Patrol raids. In July, the Bishop of the Diocese of San473Bernardino, California told 1.2 million people in his diocese474to stay home from mass on Sundays to avoid being questioned or475detained by ICE. I spoke with three Catholic bishops yesterday476who, again, reinforced the concern that they have about members477of their church being afraid to go to church. Ayman Soliman,478who fled persecution in Egypt and served as a chaplain at the479Cincinnati Children's Hospital, spent two and a half months in480ICE detention.481    So our message to the Chinese government is that it is482wrong for them to round up members of the Zion Church, to force483worshipers to go underground, and to put clergy in jail. Our484voice would have much more credibility if our own government485were not acting in a similar way. The freedom of thought,486conscience, and religion is universal. This right exists487regardless of one's beliefs or national or citizenship status,488so let us be clear and consistent in this message that we are489sending to the people of China.490    Again I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership. I491yield back my time.492    [The prepared statement of Representative McGovern appears493in the Appendix.]494    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Congressman McGovern.495    Now it is my honor to introduce our distinguished panel.496Let me begin with a very distinguished American, Ambassador Sam497Brownback. It's hard to figure out whether to call him498Ambassador, Governor, Senator. He's held all these positions.499Very, very impressive. He served as the Ambassador at Large for500International Religious Freedom from February 2018 to January5012021, where he was the State Department's chief diplomat on the502issue of protecting the right to religious liberty around the503world. He served as Governor of Kansas from 2011 to 2018.504Ambassador Brownback currently serves as a co-chair of the505International Religious Freedom Summit and chairman of the506National Committee for Religious Freedom.507    Next we have Mr. Ismail Juma. Mr. Juma is a human rights508activist with a background in the study of religious history.509He fled China with his family in 2011 after being detained by510PRC authorities. As the founder of Hope Umbrella International511Foundation, he works to protect freedom seekers, assist new512immigrants, and foster reconciliation between different ethnic513and religious groups.514    Our next distinguished witness is Bhuchung Tsering. Mr.515Tsering was born in Tibet. His family fled to India in 1960 in516the wake of the Chinese Communist invasion. He studied in India517and worked as a journalist before joining the Central Tibetan518Administration and serving in the offices of the Dalai Lama. He519currently leads the Research and Monitoring Unit at the520International Campaign for Tibet, where he has worked since5211995. He was awarded the Truman-Reagan Freedom Medal by the522Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in 2023.523    Our next witness is Mr. Bob Fu. Dr. Fu was a student leader524during the Tiananmen Square demonstrations in 1989. Dr. Fu led525a house church in Beijing until he and his wife were imprisoned526for ``illegal evangelicalism.'' They fled to the United States527as religious refugees, founding ChinaAid in 2002 to shine light528on China's human rights abuses and to promote religious freedom529in China. Dr. Fu currently serves as the Family Research530Council's senior fellow for international religious freedom. He531is the author of ``God's Double Agent.''532    Finally, Grace Jin Drexel. I had the honor of meeting Grace533a couple weeks ago here in the U.S. Senate. She is the daughter534of Pastor Mingri Ezra Jin of Zion Church in China, one of the535country's largest and most influential houses of worship. In536October 2025, Pastor Jin and dozens of other leaders were537detained as part of the largest crackdown against independent538house churches in the last 40 years. Grace has been advocating539for her father ever since. She serves as a national security540research analyst in the U.S. Senate and previously worked for541this Commission on China issues.542    Welcome to all our witnesses. For each we will have a 5-543minute opening statement. If you have a longer statement, a544written statement, we will certainly put that in the record. We545begin with Ambassador Brownback.546547      STATEMENT OF SAM BROWNBACK, AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR548INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM (2018-2021), GOVERNOR OF KANSAS549             (2011-2018), U.S. SENATOR (1996-2011)550551    Ambassador Brownback. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.552I'm honored to be here, and honored to be with you all and to553see several of you I've worked with for many, many years. It's554been important work and maybe no more important than now. I555think that the ground that you've laid on dealing with China,556and now in our conflict with China, this is important for us to557really move forward in our policy.558    What I'm going to suggest today is that we really take a559shift in our strategy toward religious freedom. I think for too560long we've looked at it mostly as a human rights issue, and561often kind of a boutique human rights issue, not really a562central one. To me now and in our conflict with China, this is563a national security issue. It's a national security imperative.564And we need to shift our thinking away from, ``This is a human565rights issue'' to ``This is a national security issue'' and put566it really and squarely in that category. China is at war with567faith. And it's at war with us. We should unequivocally and568clearly be on the side of their opponents. We should stand, and569stand clearly, with them.570    I think it's also quite clear that China fears religious571freedom far more than they fear our aircraft carriers or our572nuclear weapons. They're far more concerned. They spend573billions of dollars annually harassing everybody up and down574the line. I just finished a book that's at the publishers on575China's war on faith. They treat everybody the same. You will576either submit to us or we're going to eliminate you. You577choose, but it's one of the two. And Xi Jinping is God, not578whoever you're believing in. And the stories are very, very579consistent on this. So I look at religious freedom, honestly,580as our greatest weapon in this battle that we're in today. And581China's weakness is their governance. We really need to take582this into our strategy.583    So that's what I'm putting forward here today. My584recommendations are that we make religious freedom in China a585part of our national security objectives toward China, and we586develop a national security strategy for the U.S. and other587nations to support religious freedom inside of China. Use588economic sanctions, like in the Frank Wolf International589Religious Freedom Act, toward China. They've been a CPC country590since we started that designation. They've not paid a cent for591that--not a cent. We should ask President Trump, Vice President592Vance, Secretary of State Rubio, Secretary of Defense Hegseth593to meet with exiled leaders from the various communities that594have been persecuted--the Falun Gong, Christians, Muslims, the595Buddhist community.596    And then specifically in these communities--I would just597say, like Falun Gong, the Chinese Communist Party fears Falun598Gong more than anybody. And I've puzzled at that for the599longest time, why? But it's the most indigenous of all of them.600It's like sowing wheat on the Kansas soil. It just grows.601They've got to 90 million adherents in seven years. Well, that602scares the pants off of the Chinese Communist Party. So we603should really be working with them. The Falun Gong has a604registry of millions of people that have left the Chinese605Communist Party.606    I think we should do the following: Recognize a genocide607against the Falun Gong being done by the Chinese government.608They have sought to wipe them out. Meet with key leaders that609are in exile to support their right to religious freedom in610China, Falun Gong members, and support their effort to break611the great Chinese internet firewall, which many of us have been612about for a long time. Christians, we obviously need to613strongly advocate for the release of people like Pastor Ezra614Jin of the Zion Church, Pastor Wang Yi, who is really the615Martin Luther King, Jr. of China. His statements from jail have616been poetic. They're beautiful. And the 10 Catholic bishops617that Nina Shea identified in an article, that are imprisoned or618held somewhere in China. Ten bishops. And what do we hear about619it? Do people even know they're arrested?620    We should also encourage private sector entities with621significant ties to China to advocate for prisoners of622conscience and human rights lawyers. Groups like the NBA,623Hollywood, major businesses. Tibetan Buddhists, there is a624cultural genocide in Tibet going on today, and we need to call625it out. We should categorically reject China's government's626claim to the right to appoint the next Dalai Lama. Talk about627something that's ridiculous. Send Vice President Vance or628Secretary Rubio to Dharamshala to meet with the Dalai Lama. I629believe we should announce our support for the Dalai Lama's630Middle Way approach.631    For Tibet, genuine autonomy for Tibet within China. Now, I632have significant doubts that this will work, but if China will633not agree to this within a set period of time, say 60 days, we634should announce our recognition of an independent Tibet. If635they're not going to go with this route that he's put forward,636we should announce our support for an independent Tibet. Tibet,637and for that matter Xinjiang, has never been a part of China,638no more than Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan were a part of Russia.639They never were. They never have been. And we should call this640out.641    For the Uyghurs, they've been moved from forced labor,642confinement, incarceration, from concentration camps to forced643labor. Same incarceration, different setting. Transnational644repression. We've got to pass legislation to address645transnational repression and prosecute people that have done646it. We should start addressing Xinjiang as East Turkestan in647our government documents. It's not new frontier for China. It's648East Turkestan. And we should aggressively enforce our laws649against the use of forced labor.650    In summary, it's time to support religious freedom inside651China. We've noted it for a long time. And we've got to get652past it. And Mr. Chairman, I would submit for the record a map653of China that was put in The Washington Examiner that actually654shows what China looks like, map-wise, when you take East655Turkestan, Tibet, and the occupied territories out. I think we656need to start showing this. Sorry I went over my time.657    [The prepared statement of Ambassador Brownback appears in658the Appendix.]659    Chair Sullivan. Without objection. Thank you, Ambassador660Brownback.661    Our next witness we want to hear from is Mr. Ma Ju.662663                   STATEMENT OF ISMAIL JUMA,664                HUI MUSLIM HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE665666    Mr. Ma. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you667today. It is an honor and a solemn responsibility to speak on668behalf of tens of millions in China who cannot speak for669themselves.670    Interpreter. I will now read the prepared English statement671from Mr. Ma Ju today.672    As a member of the more than 10 million Hui Muslims of673China, and as a human rights advocate and survivor of religious674persecution, I appear before you today to present a truth that675has been systematically concealed. China's Muslim communities676are facing the most severe, widespread, and systematically677engineered crisis threatening their physical survival and basic678freedom since 1949. On the CCP's reengineering project, many679have misunderstood the CCP to be merely restricting religion.680This is patently false. The CCP is a political organization681founded on a commitment to eradicate all religion. Its doctrine682views organized faith, moral systems, and independent community683structures as existential threats to totalitarian control.684    When it does not yet possess the capacity to destroy685religion outright, it restricts it. And when it does acquire686the capacity, it moves to eliminate it without hesitation, just687as it has done to NGOs and civic groups. Under the veneer of688what is called a reengineering project, the CCP seeks to689reshape faith into ideological appendages to the Party state690and to stoke fear in Chinese communities in China and beyond.691Across Ningxia, Gansu, Qinghai, Yunnan and other regions,692thousands of mosques have had their domes demolished, minarets693removed, Qur'anic inscriptions erased, and Arabic calligraphy694scraped away. Many mosques have been forcibly converted into695cultural plazas, civilization practice centers, interiors696stripped of religious symbolism, exteriors sanitized.697    This is not merely physical destruction. It is surgical698removal of the Muslim spiritual landscape. Acts that are699entirely normal in Muslim societies are maligned and redefined700as crimes, such as fasting under Ramadan, teaching the Qur'an701privately, wearing a hijab or traditional attire, growing a702religious beard, children learning at mosques, and family703religious gatherings. These practices can result in police704interrogation, fines, detention, or being sent to reeducation705camps. This is a systematic project to redefine faith as706illegal.707    On cultural eradication and the destruction of religious708knowledge, the lifeblood of Hui, Uyghur, Kazakh, and other709Muslim communities, and centuries-old Islamic educational710tradition, have been deliberately dismantled. Imams arbitrarily711have been detained or forced into political indoctrination.712Arabic instructions have been severely restricted. Religious713texts have been censored and rewritten. CCP-approved political714reinterpretations of the Qur'an have been mandated. A people's715deepest moral and cultural inheritance has been uprooted at its716source. Repression in Xinjiang has also not ended; it's just717become more covert. There's a dangerous misconception that718repression in Xinjiang has eased. The truth is the repression719has not stopped. It has evolved.720    What was once mass internment has transformed into721pervasive surveillance and control. Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz,722Hui, as well as Han Chinese who have converted to Islam,723continue to endure forced labor, family separation, mosque724demolitions, digital surveillance, reproductive restrictions,725and stabilization policing systems. Xinjiang today exists in a726reality of systematic totalitarian social engineering. The CCP727also deploys digital tools and influence operations to728intimidate overseas Muslims by monitoring them abroad through729social media, by coordinating bot attacks and character730assassination campaigns, using family members in China as731hostages, and creating an atmosphere of fear in diaspora732communities.733    A classic example, a respected Islamic scholar visiting734Chinese Muslim migrants in Malaysia told them he planned to735meet Mr. Ma Ju in the United States. Their reaction was a736mixture of excitement and dread. Their fear was simple. If737their names appear alongside Mr. Juma in any report, their738relatives in China would face retaliation. The fear is real,739widespread, and rational.740    Why does this matter to the national interests of the741United States? China's war on religion is not a domestic742Chinese issue. It directly impacts American national security,743values, and international standing. It strikes at the744foundation of America's identity. If the world's largest745authoritarian state can eradicate religious freedom without746consequences, it undermines the authority of America's founding747values and global leadership. CCP trans-748national repression violates U.S. sovereignty. Their749intimidation and surveillance of individuals in the U.S. is a750direct assault on U.S. rule of law. It also weakens American751standing within the Muslim world. Beijing is persecuting752Muslims at home while courting Muslim majority countries753abroad, reshaping geopolitical alignments to America's754detriment.755    Digital surveillance and authoritarianism are new and756growing threats. China's export of AI surveillance and757religious profiling systems is transforming autocracies758worldwide. Religious oppression is also fueling radicalization.759Freedom of religion is a proven safeguard against extremism.760Protecting Chinese Muslim religious freedom strengthens global761and U.S. security. By preventing a global shift toward762authoritarianism, if we are to allow the CCP's model to become763a global norm, it will erode the international order and764freedom.765    In conclusion, and apologies for going over time, Mr. Ma Ju766today is speaking for those who cannot. He speaks today to767honor those who have been silenced, to expose an ongoing system768of religious persecution, to defend the universal right to769religious freedom, and to urge the United States and the770international community to act. If we remain silent today,771tomorrow there will be no one left to speak. Thank you for your772time.773    [The prepared statement of Ismail Juma appears in the774Appendix.]775    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Ma.776    Our next witness is Mr. Tsering.777778    STATEMENT OF BHUCHUNG K. TSERING, LEADER, INTERNATIONAL779        CAMPAIGN FOR TIBET RESEARCH AND MONITORING UNIT780781    Mr. Tsering. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank782the CECC for giving me this opportunity to testify about783China's religious policies in Tibet, and how it matters to the784United States.785    Tibetan Buddhism is linked to the security of the Indian786subcontinent through its historical ties and its cultural and787ethnic connections across the Himalayan region. The cultural788influence of Tibetan Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent has789also been a factor in regional stability. The Indian790subcontinent is also a major player in the Indo-Pacific region791and matters to the United States due to its massive economic792importance, strategic security interest, and its role in global793stability and the rules-based order. I would like to submit my794full text for the record and will summarize here.795    Chair Sullivan. Without objection.796    Mr. Tsering. Thank you. Opinion polls have clearly showed797repeatedly here in the United States that the majority of798Americans embrace His Holiness the Dalai Lama not just as a799religious leader, but also as an international statesman.800Americans have also shown that they care deeply about what801happens in Tibet. And successive congresses and administrations802have passed legislative initiatives on Tibet. China has been803blatantly using Tibetan Buddhism as a vehicle to not only804control the Tibetan people, but also to influence the805international community, including citizens of India, Nepal,806Bhutan, as well as here in the United States.807    Over the years, China has been increasing pressure on Nepal808to restrict Tibetan religious activities, leading to a climate809of fear and limited freedom for Tibetans there. Lhasa, the810capital of Tibet, is a sacred place for pilgrimage for all811followers of Tibetan Buddhism. The Chinese government is using812access to Tibet and Lhasa to serve its political agenda.813American citizens who wish to travel to Tibet, including814Tibetan Americans, are being faced with obstruction by the815Chinese government, while at the same time the Chinese allow a816select group of journalists to go to Tibet and ful-817fill China's narrative on Tibet and to serve it for its818propaganda819material.820    China not only restricts Tibetan religious freedom but also821attempts to interfere in the activities of Tibetans and Tibet822supporters abroad. In a report on Chinese transnational823repression of Tibetan diaspora communities, the Tibetan Center824for Human Rights and Democracy says China is attempting to825control the actions of exiled Tibetans. Chinese authorities826weaponize their relatives in Tibet by harming, threatening, or827otherwise manipulating them. The looming threat resulting from828ubiquitous surveillance also forces a constant feeling of829unease that spreads fear and disempowers exiled communities.830    The head of the Central Tibetan Administration, Sikyong831Penpa Tsering himself, said how, when he went to Australia, the832Chinese government tried to obstruct him from having an833interview by Australian TV. The Chinese government was not834successful there. More egregiously, in July this year the835Chinese authorities disappeared Zhang Yadi, a Chinese student836and a follower of Tibetan Buddhism who had been advocating837peacefully in France for Tibet and Tibetan rights. Zhang had838been on a visit to China when she was disappeared in Yunnan.839Reports indicate that she was taken away by state security840officials and is being held incommunicado.841    The Chinese government's policy on Tibetan religion has842moved from total destruction to one of control and annihilation843of Tibetan identity. Over the years, the Chinese government has844promulgated various regulations to bring Tibetan monasteries845under tighter security control. The Buddhist Association of846China is being used as a key instrument in this vehicle. China847failed to place the current Dalai Lama under its control and is848now trying to use the occasion of the next Dalai Lama to impose849its authority on Tibet, now and in the future, by trying to850claim authority--or the right--to the reincarnation of the851Dalai Lama. They have done that in the case of the Panchen852Lama, which they have failed to legitimize even today. The853Chinese government interference with the Dalai Lama has clear854geopolitical implications for many Tibetan Buddhist855institutions here in the United States, and in the Indian856subcontinent, and in Mongolia.857    I would like to end by making some recommendations. I would858like to echo two of the recommendations by Ambassador Brownback859about cultural genocide and about having Vice President Vance860and Secretary Rubio visit Dharamshala to meet His Holiness. The861Trump administration should implement the TPSA, other862legislation, and sanction Chinese authorities who deny Tibetan863religious freedom. They should engage multilaterally with other864countries on Tibetan religious freedom. They should demand the865release of Tibetan political prisoners, including the 11th866Panchen Lama and Zhang Yadi. China should stop transnational867repression. They should stop denying Tibetans their religious868freedom. But more important, they should resolve the Tibetan869issue politically. As Ambassador Brownback said, if they don't870do that, merely making superficial changes will not be a871lasting solution for the Tibetan people. Tibet has served as a872buffer in the past. If this is not resolved, it will continue873to be a national security risk for American policy. Thank you874very much.875    [The prepared statement of Bhuchung K. Tsering appears in876the877Appendix.]878    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Tsering.879    Our next witness is Dr. Fu.880881                      STATEMENT OF BOB FU,882                FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, CHINA AID883884    Mr. Fu. Chairman Sullivan, Co-chair Smith, and Congressman885McGovern, and distinguished panelists and friends, thank you886for this opportunity to testify before you. I speak as a former887prisoner of conscience and founder of ChinaAid, and an American888citizen whose own family was targeted on U.S. soil by the CCP.889China's war on faith has entered a new and dangerous phase. I890totally agree with Ambassador Brownback that we, the U.S.891Government, should shift our treatment of religious freedom to892a national security matter instead of purely a matter of human893rights.894    The CCP is no longer satisfied with just controlling895churches and mosques. It now seeks to control the entire inner896life of its citizens. Its goal is nothing less than to897eliminate all independent faith and replace it with absolute898loyalty to the CCP and Xi Jinping thought. So I want to899highlight four trends. The first, the CCP is now criminalizing900normal Christian life. Pastors are now being sentenced to 10 to90115 years for receiving tithes and offerings. No case902demonstrates this more clearly than the shocking sentence903handed down to Pastor Yang Rongli, who received 15 years, and904her husband, Pastor Wang Xiaoguang, who received nearly 10905years back in June of this year, along with 10 other church906leaders who received various sentences--for simply managing907church donations at Golden Lampstand Church in Shanxi province.908Christians are also arrested for worshiping or praying online.909Christians who attend overseas Bible conferences or mission910training are now being arrested. Earlier this year, a Christian911woman from Beijing, Dong Yumei, was arrested and has still not912been assigned for trial.913    The second trend is the CCP targeting the next generation,914children's access to the Bible. Essentially, they've declared915war on the Bible. Children are totally banned from entering the916church. Youth ministries are shut down. Parents are threatened917for teaching the Bible at home. And 71-year-old sister Wang918Honglan from Inner Mongolia received nearly five years'919imprisonment for handing out free Bibles. A third trend is the920CCP continuing to disappear and imprison most courageous921religious leaders, such as my good friend Ezra Jin and Pastor922Wang Yi. And, of course, other religiously motivated civil923society leaders, including Gao Zhisheng, a human rights lawyer924known as the conscience of China, who has been missing for over925eight years. Dead or alive, nobody knows. And Dr. Wang926Bingzhang, a Christian democracy advocate, is still serving927life imprisonment after being kidnapped from Vietnam. A woman928named Zhang Yadi, a Chinese convert to Tibetan Buddhism, also929vanished upon returning to China after studying in Europe.930    The fourth trend is that the CCP's persecution actually931does not stop at China's border. It already extends its long932arm overseas,933especially on free world soil. In 2020, my own home in Texas934was surrounded by as many as 100 CCP agents and hired thugs,935day and night, surrounding my home, issuing threats against my936family, my ministry, and my children. They said if I stopped937the ministry of ChinaAid they would leave. For three months938they939surrounded my home. And Chinese churches in the U.S. and Canada940have even been pressured to raise the CCP's own flag in their941churches, congregations, pulpits. Videos have already shown a942Chinese church pastor in Los Angeles raising the Chinese943Communist Party flag, singing the red songs--the red,944revolutionary songs of the CCP during the Chinese so-called945national day in Los Angeles. And certainly they won't raise the946American flag to celebrate the Americans' Independence Day.947    I will leave my recommendations for the Q&A time. Thank you948so much.949    [The prepared statement of Bob Fu appears in the Appendix.]950    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Dr. Fu. Very powerful testimony.951And frustrating. I don't know why we allow Chinese communist952thugs to protest and harass American citizens. They should all953be thrown in jail, in my view, or kicked out of the country.954    Our last witness is Grace Jin Drexel. Grace, you have the955floor.956957                 STATEMENT OF GRACE JIN DREXEL,958                  DAUGHTER OF PASTOR EZRA JIN959960    Ms. Drexel. Thank you so much. On October 10th, my father,961Pastor Ezra Jin Mingri, was arrested by the Chinese962authorities, along with 27 other church pastors and leaders of963Zion Church. Seventeen church leaders now remain in prison with964him, and all 18 have been formally arrested this week. This965crackdown has been reported as the largest takedown of an966independent church in China since the Cultural Revolution.967Because of the prominence of the church and the brazenness of968the Chinese repression, this case has become an international969incident and has been profiled extensively in the international970press, attracting a number of statements of public support971across the U.S. Government and beyond--thank you so much--972including from Secretary of State Marco Rubio.973    Many of these church leaders were taken in front of their974young families, who they now leave behind. My father and975several other older leaders struggle with various health976issues, and we are deeply concerned about their treatment in977prison. I urge the Chinese government to release all these Zion978Church members immediately and unconditionally. My father's979church, Zion Church, was founded in 2007 with the mission to be980faithful to God's word and to serve the families and981communities around us. By God's grace and power, within just982one decade, Zion grew rapidly into the largest emerging urban983house church in China, with more than 1,500 members at the984time.985    Since Chairman Xi Jinping came into power he has refocused986the Chinese Communist Party and the state to strengthen987ideological purity and consolidate control of society. In 2016,988Xi rewrote the regulation on religion in China and emphasized989the need to sinicize religion. However, at its core this is not990about making religion more Chinese. Christians in China already991have Chinese Bibles, indigenous hymns, their own church992history, and unique theology grown from years of persecution.993Our churches are not led by foreign missionaries but by Chinese994Christians themselves. Instead, the campaign is truly about995forcing socialist core values into the religion. It's less996sinicization; it is more ``Party-fication'' of religion.997    Beginning in 2018, a wave of persecution and a crackdown on998all religion began under the auspices of this sinicization. In9992018 Zion Church was also targeted because the church1000leadership refused to install facial recognition cameras inside1001the sanctuary. The government harassed hundreds of church1002members, threatened to take away their jobs, their rented1003houses, their children's education, and even their parents'1004retirement accounts. Many of the congregants did, in fact, pay1005the consequences of keeping their faith. On September 9th,1006hundreds of police brutally seized and shuttered the church1007buildings, took hold of church assets, and briefly detained and1008closely surveilled the pastors and leaders. And since 2018, my1009father has been under an exit ban and consequently has been1010forcibly separated from my family in the U.S. for more than1011seven years.1012    However, as powerful as the Chinese Communist Party is, it1013will never be able to take our faith and belief from us. In1014Zion's own church history, we've already seen how the1015government's attempt to coerce the faith, and control the1016faithful, has backfired, laying bare the hollowness of1017authoritarian ideology and the strength of faith, and1018ultimately growing the church. Because the church lost its1019place of worship, it pushed my father's church to develop a1020hybrid online/offline model that went nationwide, launching 1001021new church plants across 40 cities across China, growing the1022church to the largest it has ever been, reaching 10,000 people1023daily.1024    A new wave of religious persecution is brewing across1025China. Earlier this year, multiple Zion Church sites in dozens1026of cities were frequently disrupted during our Sunday services,1027with over 150 pastors and elders and church members being taken1028to the police station. They were harassed, threatened,1029interrogated, and some briefly detained. In May of this year,1030Pastor Gao Quanfu, a dear friend of my father's based in Xi'an,1031was detained on criminal charges of ``using suspicious1032activities to undermine the implementation of law,'' and fraud.1033His son is also here with us in the audience today, seeking to1034speak out about his parents and their church. In June, multiple1035co-workers of Golden Lampstand Church in Linfen were imprisoned1036for ``fraud,'' including Pastor Yang Rongli, who has received a103715-year sentence. Many more churches in China are suffering1038ongoing persecution this year.1039    Chinese independent house churches are seen as a threat not1040because they are evil or dangerous, as authorities so often try1041to paint them. They are a threat because they often care deeply1042for the society and serve the community out of love and not1043control. The church also brings a uniquely connected civil1044society organization in China, bringing people from different1045economic, education, and social strata. Churches often model1046transparency in leadership, including democratically selecting1047church elders, rotation of church board members, and clear and1048independent financial structures. Christians in China do not1049oppose authority. And the church has always sought to enrich1050Chinese society. They merely ask it to be free from the control1051of the Chinese Communist Party, a self-identified atheist1052organization, in the sacred decisions of the church--1053including things like who can attend and be baptized, what kind1054of sermons can be preached, what songs of worship they can1055sing.1056    My father started Zion in order to worship freely in a1057church that put God as the sole head of our church. Like many1058faithful Christians everywhere, my father's church seeks to1059give unto Caesar what is Caesar's but hold on to the position1060that thou shalt have no other gods before me. Since I began1061advocating for my father and the release of other church1062leaders detained around a month ago, my family has also1063experienced transnational repression. A week after we began1064speaking out about my father's detention, my mother received a1065threatening phone call from someone impersonating a U.S.1066Federal agent. I have also been watched and followed in1067Washington, D.C., as I met with friends and mentors who have1068been helping me. I'm sometimes indeed fearful. After all, I1069know that I seek to expose and hold to account the second most1070powerful country in the world.1071    Yet as a Christian, I believe that we are asked to take1072courage and speak truth. And that God, who created heaven and1073Earth, will stand by our side. Similarly, I urge the leaders1074here today to take similar courage, to use the authority with1075which you've been entrusted, and to not forget us. Speak our1076names--Pastor Ezra Jin, Pastor Gao Yinjia, Pastor Wang Lin,1077Pastor Yin Huibin, and all the leaders of Zion Church in China,1078and others as well--Pastor Gao Quanfu of Light of Zion Church1079in Xi'an, Pastor Wang Yi of Early Rain Covenant Church, Elder1080Zhang Chunlei of Guiyang Ren'ai Reformed Church, and many1081others. Do not signal defeat and acceptance of this trampling1082of human rights with your silence.1083    We are praying for the full release of all Zion imprisoned1084church leaders today. And despite not knowing why this is1085happening and experiencing the despair of seeing my father and1086others wrongfully imprisoned, I can draw strength in knowing1087that my God is a good God, and even in these bleakest moments1088might be used for bigger things and our work is not in vain. My1089father wrote in a letter from prison just a week ago that ``God1090has indeed used his power to uphold us. . . . I believe that1091during this time, like silver being refined, we are being1092tested by God, which is painful but full of love. But God will1093not abandon us.'' Thank you so much.1094    [The prepared statement of Grace Jin Drexel appears in the1095Appendix.]1096    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Ms. Drexel, for that very1097powerful testimony.1098    I want to thank all the witnesses for their very powerful1099testimony. I know Chairman Smith has another commitment soon so1100I'm going to turn to him to begin the questioning.1101    Co-chair Smith. I'll be brief. And Grace, thank you. What1102moving testimony on behalf of your dad. And we do have to1103respond.1104    I would ask the panel, I mean, in 2008 right before the1105Olympics in Beijing, not only did Frank Wolf and I go over--and1106I was shocked that all the administration, including Secretary1107of State Condoleezza Rice, were talking about was what venue--1108did they go to track and field, basketball? I said, Human1109rights! So did Frank. Raise human rights. They rounded up1110people all over Beijing so they couldn't talk to the press.1111Human rights. Now, Bush was talking about, what, opening1112ceremonies? Is he going to go? We said, ``You can't. And1113certainly, if you do go, you've got to meet with a1114representative group of great human rights defenders from1115China,'' just like we have in this panel--like you, Grace, and1116Bob, and the others. And so I think we should maybe do a letter1117and ask, before his meeting--certainly well before his meeting1118in April--that our President, current President, meet with you1119and listen. I mean, really allocate enough time to really let1120both the substance and your hearts be conveyed to him.1121    So Mr. Chairman, I ask that we do that in a bipartisan way.1122But it makes a difference. You know, there's a culture of1123indifference and a culture of denial that pervades all of our1124human rights work, including and especially with religious1125freedom. They say, It's not really going on. Well, it is going1126on. And you're bearing witness so powerfully. So I think we1127really need to get the President, because he will be eyeball-1128to-eyeball with Xi Jinping sometime, maybe in April. We're not1129sure when. And I think he needs to see all of you before he1130does that.1131    And second, last night--you know, I do have this big1132hearing, I'm sorry that there was a conflict--on Nigeria. And1133you know, last night I met with a large delegation from1134Nigeria. They're here to say, Nothing to see here. Again, the1135culture of indifference. And maybe not so much indifference,1136but more denial. Their attorney general, Ribadu, who's the1137national security advisor, was there. And I said, after we had1138a long discussion about Nigeria and the killing of moderate1139Muslims and the slaughter of Christians--and they are a Country1140of Particular Concern (CPC), which Sam Brownback pushed so hard1141for and got in the last administration, during Trump's first1142term--but I asked him, ``What are you doing?'' You know,1143there's this currying favor with Xi Jinping. ``Do you raise1144what's going on in Xinjiang and the genocide against the Muslim1145Uyghurs?'' And--crickets--nothing.1146    I said, you know, is it lack of information? Do you not1147know what's going on there? Genocide is, you know, the worst of1148the worst. And it's happening against co-religionists, your1149fellow Muslims. We all speak out for every faith, but you know,1150here you are getting closer to China. And that ought to be1151absolutely preconditioned. So I just raised that at the1152meeting. And I think the President would be moved by meeting1153with all of you, as we are moved listening to your testimony,1154looking you in the eye, and knowing, Grace, we need to speak.1155God hasn't forgotten nor should we, nor should the President of1156the United States--your dad and all the rest. So thank you,1157Chairman, for letting me go first. I do have to run over to the1158other hearing. But thank you so much.1159    Chair Sullivan. Well thank you, Mr. Chairman. And good luck1160at the next hearing. Thank you for your passion.1161    I'm going to begin the questioning. By the way, it's great1162to have Representative Kiggans here. Welcome and we're glad1163you're here. I want to get to Dr. Fu. You said you had1164recommendations. I'd like to--if you can succinctly provide1165those to the Commission right now, I'd like to hear what those1166are.1167    Mr. Fu. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also want to submit my1168written testimony for the record.1169    Chair Sullivan. Without objection.1170    Mr. Fu. A few recommendations. First, I know Congress has1171been discussing the counter-CCP Transnational Repression Act,1172several bills. I really recommend that both the Senate and the1173House take this on. And the second one--Senator Ted Budd has1174already proposed the Combating the Persecution of Religious1175Groups in China Act. So I also really advocate for that.1176    The third one, I think we should apply the Global Magnitsky1177sanctions to officials involved in persecution of the Zion1178Church and Golden Lampstand; you know, the long sentences, the1179arrest of these who are just basically traveling overseas for1180religious conferences, and sanctions against those who1181engineered the enforced disappearance of lawyer Gao Zhisheng1182and Zhang Yadi.1183    The fourth one I think is also very bipartisan, and which I1184really want to raise especially for the Trump administration.1185That is to protect these religiously based Chinese asylum1186seekers fleeing religious persecution, including those who are1187actually already vetted but because of the change in1188administration since President Trump took office, are stuck1189overseas in Thailand, for instance. I'm very, very concerned1190that we have overreacted--really throwing the baby out with the1191bathwater, because there are many who validly claimed to be1192under religious persecution, who were in some cases already1193vetted by the previous administration--some literally about to1194board a flight, but were stopped. I think we should urge the1195administration to seriously consider them and protect them. And1196we can't just use the word ``illegal'' and compromise our1197country's principles by not protecting religious freedom and1198religious refugees who seek asylum in the United States. I1199think I also agree with both the Co-chair and Ambassador1200Brownback that religious freedom must be raised in every high-1201level diplomatic meeting with the PRC.1202    Chair Sullivan. Thank you. Let me--sorry to interrupt,1203because I do want to take the time to get to some of the other1204panelists. You did a good job of laying out the shifts and1205trends that have happened with regard to the CCP to control1206religion over the last 10 years. I want to ask all the other1207witnesses what you have seen, what your views are in that1208regard; the trends and the tactics that the CCP has used to1209control religion, particularly during the Xi Jinping era. And1210if you also want to add, how does PRC intimidation against1211religion, against groups outside of China, impact what's1212happening around the world? And if you have any personal1213experience with this, I would appreciate it.1214    But why don't we begin with you, Ambassador Brownback, on1215the trends that you've seen. And why do we think the Chinese1216Communist Party is clamping down so hard? And I'll ask all of1217the witnesses, except for Dr. Fu. He talked about that in his1218testimony.1219    Ambassador Brownback. Thanks. I think it's a good question1220to ask. They have grown in their fear of people of faith.1221    Chair Sullivan. So it's a weakness we're seeing.1222    Ambassador Brownback. It is a weakness.1223    Chair Sullivan. We always think of it as a strength, but1224you're saying it's actually a weakness of theirs. They're very1225scared of people of faith.1226    Ambassador Brownback. Completely fearful of it. Much more1227fearful of that, as I said, than of our aircraft carriers or1228nuclear weapons. They fear their own people. Why? Well, because1229they are afraid of losing control. They're not acting like a1230confident country at all. And so why are we even ever hesitant1231about backing these people of faith? There can be nothing more1232American than religious freedom. This is at the core of who we1233are. And look at the lineup you have of Muslims and Christians,1234Falun Gong, Buddhists, that they are deathly scared of. And1235that's the way they're acting. And the oppression has1236intensified.1237    And then they've invented these security systems and1238perfected them that truly are mindboggling, the quality of1239them. And then freely dispersing them. In the book ``Where We1240Are Now,'' they've dispersed these systems to 80 different1241authoritarian countries--handed them out like candy to help in1242the oppression. So I just think if they're spending so much1243time and effort doing this, we ought to be backing these1244people.1245    Chair Sullivan. Thank you. I only have a few seconds left1246but I want all the witnesses to answer that question that I1247posed. And then we'll turn to Rep. McGovern. Mr. Ma, do you1248have a view on that question that I just posed?1249    Mr. Ma. I believe that the CCP is showing fear of the1250people. And the trend that we're seeing is trending toward1251nationalism. You can see from the groups that they're1252oppressing, this is part of a larger chess game.1253    Chair Sullivan. Thank you.1254    Mr. Tsering, do you have a view on the question I posed?1255    Mr. Tsering. Yes, very much. Mr. Chairman, I think one1256single issue is that they fear the Dalai Lama and his influence1257in Tibet. They look at Tibetan Buddhism as a challenge to the1258continuation of the Chinese Communist Party, and therefore they1259use the United Front Work Department, a CCP organ, to control1260Tibetans, inside Tibet as well as outside, including American1261citizens, through the use of visa permission, whereby the1262United Front, whose whole mission is to confront the Dalai1263Lama, controls the Tibetan American visa process. Here, I would1264like to submit for the record, please, two statements that the1265Dalai Lama had issued, in 2011 and 2025, regarding his1266reincarnation.1267    Chair Sullivan. Thank you.1268    And Ms. Drexel, do you have a view on this? And again,1269thank you for your very powerful, courageous testimony.1270    Ms. Drexel. Thank you so much. I agree with Ambassador1271Brownback. And just a quick anecdote, when they came to1272imprison my father or detain my father, there were 30 police1273that came into my father's house to imprison a 56-year-old1274pastor, who can't karate chop his way out of anything. And so1275there was no need--there could have been two policepersons, one1276policeperson that could have come. Instead, they had 30 people1277surround the entire house in order to detain him. And that just1278shows how much they fear this faith. And I think part of it is,1279again, because of the resilience of the faithful, that they1280can't take away something that is so intimate and so core to1281oneself.1282    And in terms of signaling, they also want to show the world1283that there's no one there to help you, that your God is not1284there, your church is not there, there's no one there. And1285therefore, you are always under my, and solely my, control. And1286I think that is wrong. And I think this is a universal human1287rights issue and that we need to stand together with those that1288are persecuted for faith.1289    Chair Sullivan. Well, this Commission is here, right?1290That's our point. Let me just make a comment here. I think this1291is really insightful testimony because we all see Xi Jinping is1292a strongman. He's getting stronger. And he's getting control.1293But this is happening because they're actually weak, and1294scared, and afraid. That's really important for all of us to1295remember.1296    Representative McGovern.1297    Representative McGovern. Thank you very much.1298    Let me thank all of you for your incredibly powerful1299testimony. And Grace, on this Commission, we're not going to1300forget about your dad, and we're going to continue to advocate1301for his release. You know, Mr. Chairman, among my most1302treasured possessions are these Tibetan prayer beads that I1303wear. About a year and a half ago I was in India, Bhuchung--you1304were there--and we met with the Dalai Lama. And he blessed1305these and gave them to me. And told me that they will have a1306calming influence, that they will help me deal with my fears1307and anxieties and my worries about the world. And I'm anxious1308to meet with the Dalai Lama again to tell him that they're not1309working.1310    And listening to the testimony here today, I mean, the1311issue of religious freedom is more urgent than ever. I share,1312by the way, Ambassador Brownback's impatience on the Tibetan1313issue. The Middle Way is something that has been talked about1314for decades now. And we've been led to believe that maybe the1315Chinese government might be receptive. Maybe they might be1316willing to negotiate certain things. And they just keep on1317stringing everybody along. So I do think we need to be thinking1318in terms of consequences, you know, of responses that are more1319than just words of condemnation, but that have an impact.1320    I actually like the idea of basically putting deadlines on1321some of this stuff. And if China doesn't comply, then we1322formally recognize Tibet as an independent country. And we have1323to insist also, you know, that the Tibetan people be able to1324decide their religious future. The Tibetan Policy and Support1325Act of 2020, which I authored with then-Senator Rubio, makes it1326United States policy to support the right of Tibetan Buddhists1327to select their own leaders, and rejects China's interference1328in recognizing a successor or reincarnation of the 14th Dalai1329Lama, and any future Dalai Lama.1330    So I just have a couple of questions here. How would you1331assess the U.S. Government's implementation of this provision,1332including under the current administration? In addition, TPSA1333also authorizes sanctions such as those under the Global1334Magnitsky Act against those officials who interfere in the1335reincarnation decisions under Tibetan Buddhism. Has this1336authority been used? And how would you assess its1337effectiveness? And finally, we have discussed the value of1338creating an international norm in support of Tibetan Buddhists'1339right to determine their religious leaders, including the next1340Dalai Lama, including coordination by like-minded governments.1341Is that happening? And can the U.S. Government play a1342leadership role?1343    Mr. Tsering. Thank you, Congressman. I think, on the three1344points, first on what this administration is doing on Tibet.1345When Secretary Rubio, soon after he took over the Secretary of1346State position, he used the occasion of the Tibetan New Year to1347issue a statement reiterating American policy on Tibet--which1348is positive. We want to see action to follow that policy1349statement, which we hope that this administration will take.1350    Second, on the matter of the reincarnation, as you rightly1351say, there is this policy of the U.S. Government to say that it1352only respects the authority of this Dalai Lama and the Tibetan1353Buddhists on reincarnation, not the Chinese government. We want1354the United States to reiterate its policy and follow up on this1355implementation to say that if the Chinese government violates1356Tibetan religious freedom, they will be sanctioned. On the1357issue of sanctions, there is the Reciprocal Access to Tibet1358Act, which you did, and TPSA also has provisions. The Magnitsky1359Act also has provisions.1360    So what the administration--not just this administration,1361the previous administration too--has been saying is that they1362do sanction Chinese officials. But it is not announced publicly1363who they are sanctioning. So we would recommend that the1364government administration here identify these people publicly1365so that the concerned Chinese authorities get the right1366message.1367    In terms of the future of Tibet, which you refer to, I1368believe that the Dalai Lama and the elected leadership of the1369Tibetan people have been earnestly working for a win-win1370solution for both the Chinese and the Tibetans. Therefore the1371path for a peaceful struggle they have led needs international1372support for this to be fulfilled. If there is enough1373international pressure on the Chinese, whether through such1374acts that you describe or any other way of strengthening1375American policy, that can only help if the Chinese government1376responds by sitting down and resolving the issue of Tibet.1377    Representative McGovern. I know. I appreciate that. I guess1378one of my worries--and again, the Dalai Lama is 90. And I hope1379he lives to be 190. But I think the Chinese government is1380calculating that when he passes on, that maybe the interest in1381Tibet will wither, that there won't be as much attention. And I1382think we need to make it clear that that will not be the case.1383And again, I think all of us--I think on the Tibet issue in1384particular, we need to step it up here in Congress. And we need1385to encourage the administration to use the tools that we have1386given them to pressure China even more.1387    And to everybody here, I've known Bob Fu for many years.1388Thank you for your incredible courage and your leadership. We1389are all deeply concerned about not only people that are being1390repressed in China, but Chinese transnational repression1391happening here. And I'm with the Senator here that, again, we1392can't tolerate that. I mean, you're in the United States. You1393should be able to express your views and say what you want. You1394shouldn't have to fear that there are repercussions coming from1395China.1396    Ambassador Brownback, again, thank you, thank you, thank1397you for your consistent leadership on these matters. I look1398forward to your book. I agree with you. This is not just a1399human rights issue. It's a national security issue. And I do1400think China's lack of acceptance of religious freedom is a sign1401of their own weakness. And so I thank you all, and I thank the1402Senator for yielding.1403    Chair Sullivan. Thank you, Congressman McGovern.1404    Representative Kiggans.1405    Representative Kiggans. Thank you very much for holding the1406hearing. It's just a privilege to be here. And I would argue1407with Mr. McGovern that maybe his prayer beads are working,1408because we see so much interest, and just the encouraged faith1409that all of you have and the stories you've shared. So maybe1410they're continuing to work in the background. But thank you for1411sharing your stories. My apologies for being a few minutes1412late.1413    I would love to hear from each of you, just to provide some1414context for myself, but how are the religious leaders in China1415still able to conduct their services, and grow their1416congregations, and practice? What type of support system1417surrounds them? Because I'm sure the fear is real and the1418threats are real. And not just in China, but the congregations1419that they have here, because we know that it is expanding to1420other countries, including our own. I just am curious about1421that support system, how they're still even able to have a1422presence and operate and grow their religions in a place like1423China. If you could maybe each answer.1424    Ms. Drexel. Well, thank you so much. I will quickly just1425talk about Zion's own church network. We are still able to meet1426on Zoom. There are several pastors who just so happened to be1427abroad. Several of them were studying in the U.S., or they were1428at a meeting and conference in South Korea when this takedown1429happened. So they are still able to host our hybrid Zoom1430meetings, or sermons and worship. Unfortunately, there are a1431lot of consequences. It requires a lot of bravery for those who1432still come to services, either in person or online.1433    And again, many people have already suffered consequences.1434But I think that, even during the Cultural Revolution, people1435held on to their faith even if it meant hiding in the kitchen1436and quietly singing to their families and their kids. And even1437during that time they were not able to wipe out Christianity.1438And I don't think that they will be able to wipe out1439Christianity today. But I do think that a lot of people in1440China, the Christians in China, are suffering, and are dealing1441with the consequences of being faithful to their faith.1442    Representative Kiggans. Thank you.1443    Mr. Fu.1444    Mr. Fu. Thank you. Before answering your question, may I1445just also suggest that the Senate, especially, take the vote1446for the ambassador at large--and designate former congressman1447Mark Walker. I think the State Department--the IRF Office, that1448position is still vacant. I mean, if we are really serious on1449religious freedom, we should vote for the ambassadorship first.1450    And in terms of support for the religious communities,1451countering the CCP's war--even against the cross--the CCP1452declared the cross a national security threat. A wooden or1453metal cross is an enemy of the state. Many government-1454sanctioned church pastors were also being arrested or1455decommissioned simply for refusing to take down the cross from1456the rooftop of the church building. Some were sentenced to 121457to 14 years' imprisonment. But the cross--it's not just a1458visible cross. It's really a universal symbol.1459    And when Xi Jinping basically declared a war against1460scripture, access to the Bible, to the children, this year1461alone--with one small organization based in West Texas--we1462printed over 40,000 copies of the children's Bible and got them1463into China, distributed in 20 provinces, to benefit a lot of1464children. I think the CCP's war ultimately will fail and is1465doomed to fail. I really applaud both the international1466community's support, including, of course, today's hearing, and1467the global religious community's continuous solidarity with1468those who are persecuted.1469    Representative Kiggans. Thank you.1470    Mr. Tsering. Thank you. In Tibet, the Chinese authorities1471have changed the policy from the physical destruction of1472Tibetan monastic institutes to control of the Tibetan monastic1473system. Today, monasteries are allowed ritualistic activities,1474but at the same time, they are trying to sinicize Tibetan1475Buddhism. So while they don't allow the monasteries to have the1476Dalai Lama's portrait, all monasteries must have the Chinese1477leader Xi Jinping and others' portraits in them. And they have1478to have political education. But in real Tibetan Buddhist1479study, the Chinese authorities do not allow Tibetan Buddhist1480students to study with their teachers, some of whom, including1481the Dalai Lama, are outside. And any contact is prohibited.1482    Representative Kiggans. Interesting. Thank you.1483Interesting.1484    Mr. Ma. I think we have presented evidence that the CCP is1485systematically trying to destroy all religion, whether that is1486Tibetan Buddhism, Christianity, Islam. And we have covered that1487all these religions are under attack. This religious war that1488the CCP is waging on us, we have taken all these attacks. But1489we have not retaliated. So I would like everyone here to think1490about what we can do in response, rather than just tell our1491stories here. We have suffered enough. And we have suffered1492beyond tolerance. I think now is the time to think about how we1493defend ourselves.1494    Ambassador Brownback. I would agree with that statement,1495and Bob Fu's too about getting the ambassador for religious1496freedom confirmed, Mark Walker. Excellent guy. He will do a1497wonderful job. But you need that point person in the1498administration so that they can really push these things inside1499the administration. Thank you.1500    Representative Kiggans. Can I just ask a quick follow-up1501question to Ambassador Brownback? Since you've had time as1502Ambassador at Large for International Religious Freedom, what1503have you seen work in the past? And what perhaps didn't work as1504well? Do you have any other direction you can provide?1505    Ambassador Brownback. Real consequences. Words just don't1506cut it. You've got to get at the money, or you've got to make1507them scared. And if you don't, it's not going to work. The1508thing about it is, you've got right here, we've got the most1509American thing possible--religious freedom--that they are1510scared to death of. And we back up and say, Well, I guess we1511won't talk about that, because it might offend the Chinese.1512Well, they're at war with us. Whether we want to admit it or1513not, they've already moved that way. And so we're just laying1514out here today clear, consequential things that the United1515States could do, or even start talking about, that'll get their1516attention. You get President Trump and the White House meeting1517with a few people that have been persecuted for their faith1518from China, and telling their stories--particularly if it's1519Falun Gong members or Tibetans--heads will blow up in Beijing.1520They are deathly scared of this.1521    Representative Kiggans. I agree. We certainly win on the1522religious freedom front. And that's a powerful weapon. So thank1523you all very much for being here.1524    Chair Sullivan. Well, I'm going to end with just one final1525round of questions here. And so Dr. Fu, that's a very powerful1526story of getting Bibles to China. Again, it reminds me of the1527story of my mom bringing Bibles to the Soviet Union as a daring1528young American. We talk about this issue of fear. Dr. Fu, Ms.1529Drexel, do we have a sense of how many Christians live in1530China? Any ballpark estimate? And then I'm going to ask the1531same thing of Mr. Tsering on Buddhists, and Mr. Ju Ma on1532Muslims.1533    Mr. Fu. Yes. Nobody knows the exact number. But even1534according to the analysis from the sociologists from Purdue1535University, the estimate of the number of Christians in China,1536including those who worship in the government-sanctioned church1537venues, has at least reached 100 million to 130 million.1538    Chair Sullivan. And do we think that number is growing or1539declining, despite the pressure?1540    Mr. Fu. I definitely think it's growing, because--just the1541example of Zion Church. In 10 years from 2007 to 2018, before1542they were formally banned, they grew from 20 to, like, 1,500.1543And then in the past five years, even after Pastor Ezra Jin was1544exiled from Beijing, from his own home, the church grew from15451,500 to over 5,000. The devotion--I sometimes sign up for the1546daily devotion on their app--has reached at minimum 10,0001547every morning--10,000 people. So that's explosive growth.1548    Chair Sullivan. Mr. Tsering, do you have a sense on1549Buddhists?1550    Mr. Tsering. The total number of Tibetans, not just in the1551Tibet Autonomous Region but in the other Tibetan areas which we1552call Tibet and Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu, etc., it's around 71553million. Of that, more than 90 percent would be Tibetan1554Buddhists. But there are also a sizable number of Chinese who1555follow Tibetan Buddhism, and Mongolians.1556    Chair Sullivan. All right. Mr. Ju Ma, do you have a sense1557on----1558    Mr. Ma. According to our and the government's estimate,1559there are 35 to 45 million Muslims. And that includes Hui1560Muslims and Uyghurs, as well as Chinese people who have1561converted to Islam.1562    Chair Sullivan. Great. Let me ask another question. Dr. Fu,1563this issue of intimidation, and people surrounding your house.1564Do we know who these people were? I mean, do you have any1565sense? Were they Americans? Were they Chinese sent to the U.S.?1566And when you called the authorities in Texas, what did they do?1567My view is if they're not Americans, they should be booted out1568of the country, like these ``police stations'' in New York City1569and everything. There's just no way we should tolerate any of1570this thuggish behavior by commies in our own country. So who1571were they? Do you know?1572    Mr. Fu. Some are--I mean, those who surrounded my home, the15733-month nonstop threat, the law enforcement, including the FBI1574agents, they did arrest two.1575    Chair Sullivan. But were they Americans? Do we know who1576they were? Were they deported?1577    Mr. Fu. Both of those arrested are American citizens. One1578from San Francisco, one from----1579    Chair Sullivan. So they're just brainwashed.1580    Mr. Fu. And they came with financial aid or support, or as1581guests of the Chinese Embassy--publicly. So you can tell1582they're associated with the Chinese government.1583    Chair Sullivan. Okay. Ambassador, I have kind of a tough1584question, but I'm going to ask you anyway because you have a1585lot of knowledge in this area. The Vatican had an agreement1586with Beijing in 2018. I don't think it's been made public, but1587it seemed to cede a lot of authority in the Catholic Church to1588the Communist Party, to some criticism, with the last pope. I1589think they have a difficult balance because they want to expand1590the number of Chinese who are practicing Christianity and1591Catholicism. So I think sometimes the balance is, well, maybe1592we'll just accommodate the Chinese Communist Party. But at the1593same time, when you have 9 or 10 bishops who are gone,1594disappeared, certainly the accommodation policy doesn't appear1595to be working very well.1596    I had the opportunity to talk about these issues with1597senior Vatican officials pretty recently. And you know, my1598message was, maybe you need to rebalance here and speak out a1599little bit more. I mean, America is a beacon, of course, for1600religious freedom, but so is the Vatican. I mean, they've been1601around a lot longer than we have--2,000-plus years. So what's1602your sense--you have real good insight on this and you've1603probably dealt with them--on what the Vatican should be doing1604on these topics? Because again, it's not an easy topic. You1605know, if you speak out really strongly you probably would1606expect Xi Jinping to arrest 30 bishops. But the accommodation1607policy, which I believe was the policy of the last pope--we1608have a new American pope whom I'm very impressed with--but it1609didn't seem to work. So do you have a sense of that? And you1610know, it's a little tough to tell the Vatican what to do, but1611we tell a lot of countries our views. I'm wondering what your1612view is on this topic.1613    Ambassador Brownback. We need the Vatican's moral voice.1614    Chair Sullivan. It's a big moral voice. You're right.1615    Ambassador Brownback. On China.1616    Chair Sullivan. And do you think it was--I'm not talking1617about the current pope. He's just getting started. But the last1618pope, it seemed like it was a very muted voice. Would you agree1619with that?1620    Ambassador Brownback. It was. I traveled several times to1621the Vatican to meet with officials about it. Secretary Pompeo1622and I both had a public conference there about the agreement1623and about how this is not working. If you negotiated this1624agreement to get these bishops free, they're not free. And you1625know, who knows their internal decisionmaking, but we really1626need their moral voice on religious freedom for everybody.1627    Chair Sullivan. Yes. For everybody. Not just for1628Christians.1629    Ambassador Brownback. No. I mean, they need to be out there1630speaking up for Uyghur Muslims and on the forced labor1631situation. And they need to be speaking out for Christians. And1632it's my hope that this new pope--actually, I would love to see1633him fly to--this isn't going to happen--but he ought to fly to1634Taiwan and give the John Paul speech of, Be not afraid, that he1635did in Poland. Wow. That would be beautiful, to have that moral1636voice saying Be not afraid.1637    Chair Sullivan. Yes. That was very powerful, when Pope John1638Paul II had that stand. It helped bring down the Soviet Union.1639There's no doubt about it.1640    Ambassador Brownback. It changed Eastern Europe. It changed1641the mentality of the whole place. They said, because there are1642more Catholics there in Poland--even though they hadn't gone to1643mass in decades--it was still in their heart.1644    Chair Sullivan. Great. Good answer. Well, listen, I want to1645thank all of the witnesses. I know it takes a lot of courage.1646Many of you have suffered your own personal tragedies because1647of this issue of religious freedom. And I just want to thank1648all the witnesses here today. It's a great hearing. Very1649informative. I learned a lot. I think it's important that we do1650this, and that people not just in America but around the world1651see this. Because our voice is very important. And as you've1652all mentioned, it's been a part of the founding of this great1653republic, and a core element of who we are as Americans.1654    The hearing record will remain open for an additional week1655for members to revise and extend remarks and to submit1656additional written statements and additional questions for the1657witnesses.1658And we respectfully ask the witnesses to get those additional1659answers back to the Commission within the next three weeks. And1660with that, I want to thank the witnesses again. This hearing is1661adjourned.1662    [Whereupon, at 11:13 a.m., the hearing was concluded.]16631664=======================================================================16651666                            A P P E N D I X16671668=======================================================================16691670                          Prepared Statements16711672                                ------16731674             Prepared Statement of Ambassador Sam Brownback16751676    Mr. Chairman:1677    China is at war with faith. It is a battle for control of their1678people. The CCP annually spends billions of dollars in their own1679country to suppress, contain, control, deceive or eliminate all1680religious entities that do not have the CCP as their leader. Religious1681freedom is seen as an existential threat to the Communist leadership.1682We should strongly back these oppressed people of faith. A cause our1683country was founded on.1684    Ultimately, the battle is over authority. The Kingdom of God versus1685the Kingdom of Man--who will be supreme in the hearts and minds of the1686people. Communism makes no space for the people's pursuit of the Divine1687that in any way could challenge the authority of the government.1688    Thus, the battle is engaged.1689    Our national interest, our global ideological confrontation with1690authoritarianism, and our hearts are with the souls of the religious1691people of all faiths in China who are oppressed, but still resisting1692the Dragon. They are our brothers and sisters of faith. They are also1693our most powerful ally against the CCP. We should embrace their cause.1694They love their nation but despise what over 70 years of Communist1695dictatorship has done to their ancient civilization.1696    It is in our national interest to strongly back the Falun Gong1697practitioners, Christians, and Buddhist and Muslim adherents in China.1698The Chinese people are a very spiritual people. To back their religious1699affiliation is to back them against the foreign ideology of Communism.1700The CCP often rails against ``foreign influences'' in their country but1701blindly forgets that Communism itself is a ``foreign ideology'' from1702industrial era Europe.17031704    I recommend the following actions:17051706    1.  Make religious freedom in China a part of our national security1707objectives toward China. Develop a National Security Strategy for the1708U.S. and other nations to support the religious communities inside1709China.17101711    2.  Use economic sanctions provided in the Frank Wolf International1712Religious Freedom Act against China for ongoing and egregious religious1713freedom violations.17141715    3.  President Trump, Vice President Vance, Secretary of State Rubio1716and/or Secretary of War Hegseth should meet with exiled leaders and1717those from the Falun Gong, Christian, Muslim, and Buddhist communities1718in China who have been persecuted.17191720    Specifically for each religious community, I recommend:17211722Falun Gong17231724    This is the community the CCP fears the most because they are the1725most natural and indigenous to the Chinese people. They went from1726introduction in 1992 to 90 million practitioners in seven years, before1727being banned by the CCP.1728    They have a registry of millions of Chinese who were members of the1729CCP and have now renounced it. Their objective is to bring back the1730Chinese culture that existed before Communism.17311732    We should:17331734    1.  Recognize a genocide against the Falun Gong by the Chinese1735government.17361737    2.  Meet with their key leaders in exile to support their right to1738freedom of religion in China.17391740    3.  Support their work to break the Great Chinese Internet1741Firewall.1742Christians17431744    One of the places where Christianity is growing the fastest.17451746    We should:17471748    1.  Strongly advocate for the release of Christian hostages being1749held by the CCP. People like Pastor Ezra Jin Mingri of the Zion Church,1750Pastor Wang Yi of the Early Rain Covenant Church and the ten Catholic1751Bishops identified in an October 17, 2024 article by Nina Shea.17521753    2.  Encourage private sector entities with significant ties to1754China to advocate for the release of prisoners of conscience and human1755rights lawyers. Groups like the NBA, Hollywood, and major businesses1756with ties to China.17571758Tibetan Buddhists17591760    China continues to aggressively push forward a cultural genocide in1761Tibet, doing everything possible to remove Tibetan language and culture1762from the next generation and to distance the people from their1763reverence for the Dalai Lama.17641765    We should:17661767    1.  Categorically reject the Chinese government's claim to the1768right to appoint the next Dalai Lama.17691770    2.  Send Vice President Vance or Secretary Rubio to Dharamsala,1771India to confer with the Dalai Lama and announce our support for the1772Dalai Lama's Middle Way approach for Tibet. Genuine autonomy for Tibet1773within China. While I have significant doubts this will work, just look1774at Hong Kong. If China will not agree to this within 60 days, we should1775announce our recognition of an independent Tibet.17761777    3.  Tibet, and for that matter, Xinjiang (East Turkestan), are no1778more a part of China than Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan were a part of1779Russia. They are occupied territories and we should see them as such.17801781Uyghur Muslims17821783    Many of the Uyghurs have now been moved from concentration camps to1784forced labor confinement. Same incarceration, different setting. The1785transnational oppression experienced by Uyghurs and Falun Gong, in1786particular, must be confronted in our own country and Europe.17871788    We should:17891790    1.  Pass legislation to address the transnational oppression and do1791high-profile prosecutions of those doing the criminal activities.17921793    2.  Start addressing Xinjiang as East Turkestan in our government1794documents.17951796    3.  Aggressively address the enforcement of our laws against the1797use of forced labor, particularly of the Uyghurs, and ask our allies to1798similarly ban the sale of products made by forced labor in their1799markets.18001801Conclusion18021803    To date, we have failed to recognize and support our most potent1804ally in our struggle against the CCP, the religious people of China.1805The CCP fears them more than our nuclear missiles or aircraft carriers.1806It's time to engage them and their fundamental human dignity and God-1807given human right to do with their own souls what they choose. No fight1808could be more American than to fight for religious freedom.1809[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2143.00118101811                   Prepared Statement of Ismail Juma18121813    Chairman, Co-chairman, and distinguished members of the Commission:1814    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It is an1815honor--and a solemn responsibility--to speak on behalf of the tens of1816millions in China who can no longer speak for themselves. I also wish1817to extend my deep gratitude to all who continue to defend and uphold1818the principle of religious freedom.1819    As a member of the more than ten million Hui Muslims of China, and1820as a humanitarian advocate and survivor of religious persecution, I1821appear before you to present a truth that has been systematically1822concealed: China's Muslim communities are facing the most severe,1823widespread, and systemically engineered crisis threatening their1824physical survival and basic freedoms since 1949.18251826I. The CCP's ``Re-engineering Project'': Not Only Suppression, but1827Erasure18281829    A long-term misunderstanding is that the Chinese Communist Party1830merely ``restricts'' religion. This is false. The CCP is a political1831organization founded on a commitment to eradicate religion. Its1832doctrine views organized faith, moral systems, and independent1833community structures as existential threats to totalitarian control.1834When it does not yet possess the capacity to destroy religion outright,1835it restricts it; when it does acquire that capacity, it moves to1836eliminate it without hesitation--just as it has done to independent1837NGOs, civic groups, and minority cultures.1838    Under the veneer of what it calls a ``re-engineering project'', the1839CCP seeks to reshape all religions into ideological appendages of the1840Party-state.184118421. Erasure of Islamic Architecture and Sacred Space18431844    Across Ningxia, Gansu, Qinghai, Yunnan, and other regions,1845thousands of mosques have had their domes demolished, minarets removed,1846Quranic inscriptions erased, and Arabic calligraphy scraped away.1847    Many mosques have been forcibly converted into ``cultural plazas,''1848``civilization practice centers,'' or political education sites.1849Interiors are stripped of religious symbolism; exteriors made to1850resemble secular government facilities.1851    This is not mere physical destruction--it is the surgical removal1852of the Muslim spiritual landscape.185318542. Normal Religious Life Criminalized as ``Illegal'' or ``Extremist''18551856    Acts that are entirely normal in Muslim societies are redefined as1857crimes:18581859      Fasting during Ramadan1860      Teaching the Qur'an privately1861      Wearing the hijab or traditional attire1862      Growing a religious beard1863      Children entering mosques1864      Family religious gatherings18651866    These practices may result in police interrogation, fines,1867detention, or being sent to ``re-education camps.''1868    This is a systematic project to redefine faith as illegality.186918703. Destruction of Religious Knowledge: Cultural Eradication18711872    The lifeblood of Hui, Uyghur, Kazakh, and other Muslim1873communities--the centuries-old Islamic educational tradition--has been1874deliberately dismantled:18751876      Imams arbitrarily detained or forced into political1877indoctrination1878      Arabic instruction severely restricted1879      Religious texts censored or rewritten1880      CCP-approved political reinterpretations of the Qur'an1881mandated18821883    A people's deepest moral and cultural inheritance is being uprooted1884at its source.188518864. Repression in Xinjiang Has Not Ended--It Has Become More Hidden18871888    There is a dangerous misconception that repression in Xinjiang has1889``eased.'' The truth: It has not stopped. It has evolved.1890    What was once mass internment has transformed into totalized1891surveillance and control:18921893      Forced labor1894      Family separation1895      Mosque demolitions1896      Ubiquitous digital monitoring1897      Birth prevention policies1898      ``Stabilization'' policing systems18991900    Xinjiang today is a laboratory of totalitarian social engineering.19011902II. My Personal Experience: A Survivor of Transnational Repression19031904    Because of my humanitarian work, my efforts to promote ethnic and1905religious reconciliation, and my advocacy for persecuted Muslims, I was1906placed on China's watchlist.1907    After I fled China, the repression followed me across borders:19081909      Surveillance and threats1910      Cyberattacks and coordinated bot harassment1911      Pressure and intimidation directed at my family1912      Abuse of legal systems to wage transnational repression19131914    I possess evidence of:19151916      Hui religious figures imprisoned after secret trials1917simply for sharing or reposting my social media content1918      Minors prosecuted for attempting to contact me1919      Cross-border legal actions initiated immediately after I1920submitted a human rights brief to the United Nations, supported the1921protection of Najiaying Mosque in Yunnan, and helped international1922media expose the destruction of thousands of mosques19231924    My uncle--whom I had not spoken to for more than a decade--was1925coerced into calling me with a message from the authorities: ``Turn1926back before it is too late.''1927    It is now evident that the CCP is exploiting legal loopholes in the1928United States to conduct transnational repression. America's judicial1929system--ironically a symbol of the rule of law--has become one of the1930CCP's most effective weapons to burden dissidents with:19311932      reputational smearing1933      endless malicious lawsuits1934      crushing legal bills19351936    Meanwhile, here on U.S. soil, I have experienced stalking,1937intrusions into my residence, online and email threats, and explicit1938death threats. These are not isolated events--they are part of an1939ongoing campaign.19401941III. Digital Authoritarianism: Extending Control to Overseas Muslims19421943    The CCP deploys digital tools and influence operations to1944intimidate overseas Muslims:19451946      Monitoring Chinese Muslims abroad through social media1947      Coordinated bot attacks and character assassination1948      Using family members in China as hostages1949      Creating an atmosphere of fear in diaspora communities19501951    A telling example: A respected Islamic scholar visiting Chinese1952Muslim migrants in Malaysia told them he planned to meet me in the1953United States. Their reaction was a mixture of excitement and dread.1954Their fear was simple: if their names appeared alongside mine in a1955report, their relatives in China would face retaliation.19561957IV. Religious Tolerance: A Core American Value and a Universal Moral1958      Principle19591960Christianity19611962      ``Love your neighbor as yourself.'' (Matthew 22:39)1963      ``Judge not, that you be not judged.'' (Matthew 7:1)19641965Buddhism19661967      The Metta Sutta: ``May all beings be happy and secure.''19681969Islam19701971      ``There shall be no compulsion in religion.'' (Qur'an19722:256)1973      ``We made you nations and tribes so that you may know one1974another.'' (Qur'an 49:13)1975      The Constitution of Medina established one of the1976earliest multi-faith systems of coexistence.19771978V. Why This Matters to the National Interests of the United States19791980    1.  It strikes at the foundation of America's identity1981    2.  CCP transnational repression violates U.S. sovereignty1982    3.  It weakens America's standing with the Muslim world1983    4.  Digital authoritarianism is a growing threat1984    5.  Religious oppression fuels radicalization1985    6.  Preventing a global shift toward authoritarianism19861987Conclusion: Speaking for Those Who Cannot19881989    I speak today:19901991      to honor those who have been silenced1992      to expose an ongoing system of persecution1993      to defend the universal right to religious freedom1994      to urge the international community to act19951996    If we remain silent today, tomorrow there may be no one left to1997speak.1998                                 ______19992000               Prepared Statement of Bhuchung K. Tsering20012002    I would like to thank the Congressional-Executive Commission on2003China for giving me the opportunity to testify on China's policies and2004tactics for coercively controlling Tibetan Buddhism and its relevance2005to the United States.2006    Tibetan Buddhism has a sizable following throughout the world,2007including here in the United States, as well as in the Indian2008subcontinent. Tibetan Buddhism is linked to the security of the Indian2009subcontinent through its historical ties and its cultural and ethnic2010connections across the Himalayan region. The cultural influence of2011Tibetan Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent has also been a factor in2012regional stability. The Indian subcontinent is also a major player in2013the Indo-Pacific region and matters to the United States due to its2014massive economic importance, strategic security interests, and its role2015in global stability and the rules-based order.2016    His Holiness the Dalai Lama is revered by communities in the Indo-2017Pacific region, as well as in the United States, where opinion polls2018have clearly shown that a majority of Americans embrace him as both a2019religious leader and globally respected statesman. Americans have shown2020that they care deeply about what happens in Tibet and successive2021congresses and administrations have reflected that through legislative2022and policy initiatives.2023    The Chinese government's actions in Tibet have created a complex2024security dynamic, with India attempting to stabilize a sensitive2025frontier with Chinese-2026controlled Tibet. For its part, China has been blatantly using Tibetan2027Buddhism as a vehicle to not only control the Tibetan people, but also2028to influence the international community, including the citizens of2029India, Nepal, and Bhutan, as well as the United States.2030    Over the years China has been increasingly putting pressure on2031Nepal to restrict Tibetan religious activities, leading to a climate of2032fear and limited freedom for Tibetans in Nepal. This pressure includes2033having Nepal crack down on protests, surveillance of the community,2034refusal to register refugees, and increased security cooperation with2035Chinese authorities.2036    Lhasa is the most sacred place of pilgrimage for all followers of2037Tibetan Buddhism throughout the world, and Chinese authorities are2038politicizing access to Tibet to further their agenda. China continues2039to impose restrictions on Tibetan Buddhists, including American2040citizens, who wish to travel to Tibet. At the same time, it is2041providing selective access to journalists and other influencers to2042drive its own narrative. China has also used the Confucius Institutes2043in the United States to spread its propaganda on Tibet.2044    China not only restricts the religious freedom of Tibetans in Tibet2045but also attempts to interfere in the activities of Tibetans and Tibet2046supporters abroad. In a report on Chinese Transnational Repression of2047Tibetan Diaspora Communities, the Dharamsala-based Tibetan Centre for2048Human Rights and Democracy (TCHRD) says that in attempting ``to control2049the actions of exiled Tibetans, Chinese authorities weaponise their2050relatives in Tibet by harming, threatening, or otherwise manipulating2051them. The looming threat resulting from ubiquitous surveillance also2052fosters a constant feeling of unease that spreads fear and disempowers2053exiled communities. Knowing that spies are planted among their members2054undermines the trust essential to the survival of diaspora networks.2055Transnational repression poses increasing threats to Tibetan diaspora2056communities and, thereby, to the future of the Tibetan freedom2057movement.''2058    The head of the Central Tibetan Administration, Sikyong Penpa2059Tsering, also said he faced transnational repression from China, which2060tries to stop his visits to different countries, including a direct2061attempt to stop a major Australian TV station from broadcasting a2062discussion program with him. More egregiously, in July this year, the2063Chinese authorities disappeared Zhang Yadi (Tara), a Chinese student2064and a follower of Tibetan Buddhism, who had been advocating peacefully2065in France for Tibet and Tibetan rights. Zhang had been on a visit to2066China when she was disappeared in Yunnan. Reports indicate she was2067taken away by state security officers and is being held incommunicado2068on suspicion of inciting separatism.2069    Therefore, the Chinese Communist Party's attitude towards religion2070in general and on Tibetan Buddhism in particular becomes a national2071security interest for the United States.2072    In this testimony I will highlight China's policy of altering the2073very identity of the Tibetan people as part of President Xi Jinping's2074overall strategy to co-opt and eventually eliminate Tibet's unique2075religious, linguistic, and cultural identity.2076    I am submitting the full text of my testimony for the record and2077will provide an overview at the hearing.2078    The Chinese government's policy on Tibetan religion has moved from2079total destruction of Tibetan religious institutions and systems to one2080of insidious control and erosion. Initially, China launched major2081attacks on the physical structure of Tibetan Buddhism, destroying2082almost all of the monasteries and temples. Subsequently, China altered2083its policy to allow a semblance of Tibetan Buddhist practice, while2084simultaneously using it as a vehicle to exert influence over the2085Tibetan people, as well as followers of Tibetan Buddhism throughout the2086world.2087    Over the years, the Chinese state has promulgated various2088regulations to bring Tibetan monasteries and monastics under tighter2089control by the state. To be clear, while these measures apply to all2090religious communities in the People's Republic of China, in Tibet the2091effect is increasingly intense due to the defining role religion plays2092as the cultural and social foundation of Tibetan society. The2093mechanisms of control inflicted by the Xi Jinping regime are designed2094to contort genuine Tibetan Buddhism and its institutions into another2095tool of autocratic control and eventual replacement of the Tibetan2096people's unique civilization with one defined by the Communist Chinese2097Party.2098    The Buddhist Association of China (BAC), a supposedly non-political2099organization, is becoming a key instrument in the Chinese Communist2100Party's strategy to assimilate and transform Tibetan Buddhism. This2101process is intended to break down Tibetan Buddhism's unique2102characteristics and to change it into a tool of the Chinese state.2103    The most critical area where the BAC contributes to the CCP agenda2104is in the search for and recognition of Tibetan reincarnations. The CCP2105has a strategy to use the opportunity of the ageing of the Dalai Lama2106to use the deeply spiritual process of his reincarnation to promote its2107political agenda in Tibet and the region.2108    Since China has failed to place the current Dalai Lama under its2109control, it plans to ensure the next incarnation will be subservient to2110the Communist Party of China. China's atheist, authoritarian government2111is claiming authority to select the next Dalai Lama. They attempted2112this identical strategy with the reincarnation of the Panchen Lama, the2113second most well-known Tibetan Buddhist leader, by kidnapping him when2114he was six years old (the youngest political prisoner ever). The CCP2115subsequently appointed a patently false substitute in his place. Not2116only do the Chinese government's claims completely disregard centuries-2117old Tibetan religious tradition, they also violate the universal2118principle of religious freedom.2119    The Chinese government's interference in the Dalai Lama2120reincarnation issue has clear geopolitical implications for many2121Tibetan Buddhist institutions in the United States, the Indian2122subcontinent, Mongolia, and other parts of the world. If not challenged2123vigorously by free countries, this decision threatens religious2124freedom, not only of Tibetans, but also of millions of followers of2125Tibetan Buddhism worldwide, including in the United States. If China2126achieves its goal of co-opting and controlling Buddhism in the region2127and globally with impunity, then it will only embolden Beijing to2128further its other expansionist and authoritarian ambitions.2129    The CCP has introduced the following measures, regulations, and2130initiatives to exercise control over the recognition of reincarnations.2131In 2019, the Chinese spokesperson responded to the Dalai Lama's2132assertion about his authority to decide on his reincarnation by stating2133that the process must adhere to Chinese law.21342135      The ``Management Measures for the Reincarnation of Living2136Buddhas in Tibetan Buddhism'' (Order No. 5) passed by the State2137Administration of Religious Affairs on July 18, 2007, that came into2138force on Sept. 1, 2007. It articulates in detail the CCP role in2139selection, installation, and education of reincarnate lamas.21402141      The 2010 ``Tibetan Buddhism Living Buddha Certificates''2142provided by the BAC to reincarnations who have been approved by the2143Chinese government.21442145      The 2016 ``Tibetan Buddhism Living Buddha Inquiry2146System'' launched by the BAC to verify legitimacy of reincarnations. In2147January 2016, the database started with 870 names, while in April the2148same year, it increased to 1,300.21492150      The ``Revised Religious Affairs Regulations'' (Order No.2151686) passed by the State Council on June 14, 2017 that came into force2152on Feb. 1, 2018. It mandates that the religious community shall2153``practice the core socialist values; and preserve the unification of2154the country, ethnic unity, religious harmony and social stability.''21552156      The ``Measures for the Administration of Religious2157Clergy'' (Order No. 15) passed by SARA on Jan. 8, 2021, regulating the2158administration of religious clergy. The measures, which came into force2159on May 1, 2021, standardize state management of clergy to serve the2160ideological and political interests of the state and legally underpin2161the ``Sinification'' of religion policy in China. Article 15 in the2162regulation explicitly reaffirms the state's role in management and2163approval of Tibetan reincarnate lamas.21642165      ``Administrative Measures for Religious Activity Venues''2166(Order No. 19) that came into force on Sept. 1, 2023.21672168    The Chinese authorities realize that Tibetan Buddhism is the core2169of Tibetan identity. Thus, to the CCP, Sinification serves to make2170Tibetan Buddhism conform to the CCP ideology and be an active agent of2171its promotion and implementation.2172    In a formal statement on September 24, 2011, the Dalai Lama2173categorically maintained that only he can make a decision regarding his2174reincarnation and the process by which he intends to handle the issue2175of his succession, and on July 2 this year he reiterated his position.2176I would like to submit these two statements for the record.2177    In the past more than 60 years, the Chinese authorities have2178adapted from a policy of destruction of the Tibetan religious2179institutions and system to one of controlling them to serve its own2180political objectives. For the first several years leading to and after2181the Chinese invasion and occupation of Tibet, there was a policy of2182complete annihilation of Tibetan religion, including its institutions.2183    After the Cultural Revolution, there was a brief period of2184liberalization in the 1980s, leading to a resurgence of Tibetan2185religious expression. In an apparent realization of the failure of its2186policy to eliminate Tibetan Buddhism, the Chinese leadership slowly2187began to change its policy to one of subversion and mounting erosion.2188    Tibetan Buddhists inside and outside Tibet will not accept China's2189plans to control the Dalai Lama's reincarnation. Nor will the2190international community endorse such a blatant assault on not only2191Tibetan religious freedom, but also the fundamental right of any2192religion to choose its own leaders.2193    Tibet is within the parameters of U.S. security interests in the2194Indo-Pacific region. Tibet occupies an Asian fault zone of clashing2195cultures and big power politics. Tibet is where Russia, China, and2196British India played the Great Game in the past. A stable Tibet where2197the human rights and religious freedom of Tibetans is respected would2198contribute greatly to peace and stability in this sensitive region.2199                            recommendations2200    1. The Trump administration must monitor, as per the Tibetan Policy2201and Support Act of 2020, Chinese officials' violation of Tibetan2202religious freedom, including interference in recognizing a successor or2203reincarnation of the 14th Dalai Lama and any future Dalai Lamas and2204consider imposing sanctions with respect to such officials under the2205Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act (22 U.S.C. 2656 note)2206and applying the relevant section of the Immigration and Nationality2207Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(2)(G)) with respect to such officials.22082209    2. The Trump administration should continue to engage2210multilaterally with like-minded countries and international bodies to2211undertake coordinated initiatives and develop a united policy on2212religious freedom of the Tibetan people, including within the European2213Union and at the United Nations.22142215    3. The administration should publicly demand the release of Tibetan2216political prisoners, including those who have been imprisoned for2217upholding their religious rights, including the 11th Panchen Lama,2218Gedhun Choekyi Nyima.22192220    4. China should be asked to stop transnational repression and2221release those who have been detained for peaceful advocacy of Tibetan2222rights, including Zhang Yadi.22232224    5. The State Department should make greater use of the Reciprocal2225Access to Tibet Act by publicly releasing the names of Chinese2226officials sanctioned under the Act in the hopes of gaining greater2227access to monitor the conditions in Tibet, in-2228cluding the practice of Tibetan Buddhism and the situation in Buddhist2229monastic2230establishments.22312232    6. Relevant congressional committees should request access to Tibet2233and ask American diplomats as well as organizations, including2234representatives of multi-2235lateral organizations, to seek access to Tibet as part of the2236implementation of the Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act.22372238    7. Denial of religious freedom for Tibetans is merely a symptom of2239a bigger problem, which is political, and needs to be addressed. The2240United States has a policy of encouraging unconditional negotiations2241between the Tibetan leadership and the Chinese leadership. The Trump2242administration should urge Beijing at senior levels, both privately and2243publicly, to return to substantive dialogue with the Dalai Lama or his2244representatives, without pre-conditions, to negotiate a resolution to2245the Tibet-China conflict, in line with the 2002 Tibetan Policy Act and22462020 Tibetan Policy and Support Act.22472248[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]22492250                Prepared Statement of Hon. Dan Sullivan22512252    Good morning. The Commission will come to order. Thank you to our2253witnesses and to all who are following this hearing online.2254    Today's message is straightforward: the Chinese Communist Party2255(CCP) is waging a systematic campaign to bend every faith in China to2256Party rule. CCP authorities aim for the complete subordination of2257religious belief to state ideology--re-2258engineering doctrine, leadership, education, architecture, and even2259online worship.2260    The CCP is not content to police behavior; it wants to control the2261conscience and intrude on the most powerful and personal relationship2262there is--the one with God. We have documented imprisonment, torture,2263and worse for such simple acts as owning a prayer book, growing a2264beard, or gathering for worship.2265    There are currently 1,647 documented religion prisoner cases in the2266CECC's Political Prisoner Database, although that number may be ten2267times higher when we consider all those detained in the Uyghur region.2268At least a dozen bishops and priests from my own Catholic Church are2269detained.2270    Make no mistake about it, freedom of religion is under assault2271worldwide--witness what is happening in Nigeria. But nowhere is the2272scale of the threat greater than in China. There are an estimated 5002273million people in China whose faith traditions face some form of2274restriction or control.2275    And the CCP's grip on religion does not end at its borders. Through2276transnational repression, it harasses exiled believers, infiltrates2277religious communities, and intimidates diaspora groups to remain2278silent. Some of our witnesses have personal experience with2279intimidation or transnational repression right here in America.2280    Since Xi Jinping came to power, he has pushed an aggressive agenda2281to roll back what little space for independent religion once existed2282and to assert CCP dominance over all aspects of religious life.2283Christian pastors are prosecuted for fraud for accepting charity.2284Uyghur Muslims are punished for reading the Qur'an at home. Tibetan2285Buddhists are targeted for honoring the Dalai Lama; Falun Gong2286practitioners are tortured for peaceful meditation the Party cannot2287control. Across China, the Party has closed churches, imprisoned2288pastors and priests, and ordered the removal of Islamic and Tibetan2289Buddhist symbols from buildings2290    We are here today because the right to believe according to one's2291own conscience is not a privilege government may grant or withhold. It2292is a universal human right, central to human dignity and human2293flourishing. We know now that religious freedom is a critical element2294in societies that are stable and prosperous. Our own history, from the2295earliest colonies to the First Amendment, reflects a simple truth:2296societies are freer, fairer, and more stable when people are free to2297worship, to practice their faith, and to live, speak, and act according2298to their beliefs.2299    The CCP fears the power of faith because it is a source of values2300and moral authority it cannot control. That is why it demands that2301crosses come down and portraits of Xi Jinping go up. It is why a2302Catholic priest must preach Party slogans alongside sacred texts. It is2303why so many religious leaders and religious believers are jailed.2304    To the CCP, faith is not just a challenge, it is an existential2305threat to its grip on power--and why it must be controlled or2306destroyed.2307    The title of this hearing asks why religious freedom in China2308matters to the United States. We certainly want to hear our witnesses2309answer this question. But let me offer one reason why this hearing2310matters by reading part of a statement by detained pastor Wang Yi, who2311met with President George W. Bush in the Oval Office in 2006. The2312National Endowment for Democracy just awarded Wang Yi one of its2313highest prizes.2314    In one of his last statements before being detained, Pastor Yi2315said: ``the rulers of this country are waging a war--in the [Uyghur2316region], in Tibet, in Shanghai, in Beijing--and the rulers who are2317waging this war have chosen for themselves an enemy that can never be2318imprisoned, an enemy that can never be destroyed, an enemy that can2319never be controlled or subdued, namely, the soul of human beings.''2320Pastor Wang Yi may now be in prison--but he, and millions of others2321like him, are not subdued. That is why this hearing matters--not just2322for one community, one country, or one faith, but for the defense of2323human dignity and conscience everywhere. The CCP wants believers in2324China to feel isolated and forgotten. Our responsibility is to show2325them--and to show Beijing--that they are neither.23262327                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Chris Smith23282329    Thank you, Senator Sullivan, and good morning, everyone.2330    I'm very glad the CECC is holding this hearing, and to be working2331with you on this critical, and indeed, urgent, issue that is so close2332to my heart.2333    I say ``urgent'' because, as we speak, the Chinese Communist Party,2334directed by General Secretary Xi Jinping, is engaged in one of the most2335extensive crackdowns on a Protestant Christian house church in 402336years. I also say urgent because, as I look around this room, I see2337friends of many faiths with loved ones languishing in Chinese prisons.2338Their plight is pressing and we must act and pray with urgency.2339    At its core, religious freedom is about the right of conscience--2340what George Washington called ``that little spark of celestial fire2341which is the inviolable domain in the heart of every human being.'' I2342am proud to say that this is the fourteenth hearing I have chaired or2343co-chaired dedicated to religious freedom in China.2344    We say that religious freedom is a universal right because it is2345guaranteed by a sovereign God who created human beings in his own image2346and likeness and imbued them with inalienable dignity and worth,2347whether they were born in Washington or Wuhan. It is thus not a2348``Western'' construct but a universal one.2349    Yet the General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, leader of2350the world's largest atheistic state, would force his own people to2351think otherwise. He would have the Chinese people believe that2352religious freedom is not for them, that religion itself is not for2353them, because he, and the party he leads, are terrified of religious2354faith. They fear any moral or spiritual authority outside the control2355of the Party; and they punish worship of anyone but Xi Jinping.2356    Instead, the Chinese Communist Party wants total control over2357heart, mind, and spirit of each citizen of China. In one particularly2358ludicrous yet equally insidious example, in September, the Cyberspace2359Administration of China launched a two-month ``Clear and Bright''2360campaign that polices pessimism and ``negative emotions,'' among other2361thought crimes. This is totalitarianism, pure and simple, and2362totalitarian governments cannot abide freedom of religion or belief.2363And yet, neither can they extinguish it.2364    In Tibet, as Communist authorities seek to stamp out any mention or2365memory of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, blanketing religious sites with2366surveillance and security forces in the lead-up to his 90th birthday, a2367young singer performed a song celebrating the spiritual leader, and2368Tibetans inside and outside Tibet shared and re-shared it on social2369media.2370    When authorities shut down Zion Church in Beijing, then one of the2371city' s largest, Pastor Ezra Jin took the church nationwide by moving2372online, reaching more people than it ever could have before. (We are2373also proud to have as one of our witnesses Pastor Jin's daughter,2374Grace, who used to work for the CECC.)2375    In Fujian province, authorities confined underground Catholic2376bishop Guo Xijin to his residence, so he joyfully celebrated the 40th2377anniversary of his priestly ordination by serving communion to pilgrims2378through the bars of the chained gate outside his home.2379    After removing domes and minarets from thousands of mosques in2380China to excise foreign elements, authorities likely believed they2381could dismantle two of the remaining mosques targeted for demolition2382with impunity, yet whole communities of Hui Muslims in Yunnan province2383took to the streets in protest.2384    And these are only a few examples out of the many we at the2385Commission have documented, to say nothing of the countless acts of2386quiet faith and steadfast devotion known only to individual believers2387and their God. I encourage you to read the statements we will be2388posting on the webpage for this hearing, which will feature expert2389testimony and inspiring personal narratives from Uyghurs, Catholics,2390Falun Gong practitioners, and others.2391    Today, we will hear directly from brave men and women whose2392families and faith communities have suffered in China for their dogged2393belief that they, too, are entitled to freedom of religion, and that an2394illegitimate and atheistic regime cannot bind the conscience of its2395citizens.2396    In many cases, authorities have pursued beyond China's borders2397these believers in an authority above the CCP, attempting to silence2398their advocacy. Thus we are especially grateful for their voices here2399today. Among those voices is that of Grace Jin Drexel, the daughter of2400Pastor Ezra Jin and a former CECC researcher. I heard Grace address the2401CPAC Christian persecution summit, and I was deeply moved by her2402advocacy for her father. I know we are all eager to hear how we can2403support Pastor Ezra and all those detained in the crackdown on the Zion2404Church network.2405    But we are not only here to lament or to cry out for the ``least of2406these'' who suffer persecution and injustice, or to call out evil2407rulers and bad actors. We speak up2408for Falun Gong practitioners, for Uyghur Muslims, for Tibetan2409Buddhists, and for2410underground Catholics because it is right, but also because robust2411religious freedom diplomacy is critical for U.S. national security, as2412Ambassador Brownback and I wrote in our recent op-ed for the Washington2413Times, ``Why China's War on Religion Matters to the U.S.'' And2414Ambassador, I know this is the topic of the book you have coming out2415soon, and I really look forward to reading it.2416    Studies show that religious freedom is strongly correlated with2417flourishing societies and nations--it is a security stabilizer, making2418countries and regions safer. It is associated with economic growth and2419trustworthy institutions, ensuring fairer markets for American and2420international business. This unalienable freedom is fundamental to2421peace and prosperity for China and for the United States and deserves2422our strong and unwavering support. I look forward to hearing from our2423witnesses.2424    Thank you.2425                                 ______24262427              Prepared Statement of Hon. James P. McGovern24282429    Good morning. I want to thank Chair Sullivan and Co-chair Smith for2430convening this important hearing. I want to thank Senator Merkley and2431Representative Strong for their leadership on these issues as well. We2432have different political philosophies but we are together in2433championing human rights and religious freedom.2434    Religious freedom has been at the core of the Commission's work2435since its founding. It has been the subject of numerous hearings and2436well-documented reporting. I understand the 2025 Annual Report is close2437to finalization. I look forward to its publication so that all Members2438can benefit from its analysis and recommendations. I commend the2439dedicated, non-partisan staff of the Commission for their hard work in2440getting this 300+ page report researched, written and released. It is a2441lot of work. And it is good work. And it's important work.2442    Religious freedom is protected under Article 18 of the2443International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which affirms2444that every person has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and2445religion. In the United States, it is protected by the First Amendment2446to the Constitution: Congress shall make no law respecting an2447establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. We2448Americans are very proud of this protection of our rights. As a2449practicing Catholic, I feel a deep personal connection to the right to2450worship and belief according to one's conscience. Defense of this2451fundamental right, in both national and international law, is essential2452to our work as public servants.2453    China's constitution also provides that the state cannot ``compel2454citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion'' or2455``discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in,2456any religion.'' But as we will hear today, such protection is honored2457in the breach. They don't respect it, they don't follow it. This is a2458reminder that even the strongest constitutional provisions on paper2459cannot protect citizens' rights if those in power choose to disregard2460them for political ends.2461    In 2022 I was honored to co-chair this Commission's hearing on how2462Chinese authorities were expanding digital tools to surveil and2463suppress online religious expression. I'm pleased that today's2464witnesses will update us on the PRC's policies and tactics for coercive2465control of religion and their impact on individuals and communities. I2466welcome Ambassador Sam Brownback, who headed the State Department's2467International Religious Freedom office and remains a powerful leader in2468the field.2469    I look forward to the testimony of those who will speak to the2470experiences of Hui Muslims, Christians, and Tibetans under the PRC's2471ongoing repression. In July, several UN special rapporteurs and working2472groups issued a statement on the Chinese government's interference in2473the succession of the Dalai Lama and the enforced disappearance of the247411th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima. This is a U.S. priority, as2475Senator Marco Rubio and I put into law in the Tibetan Policy and2476Support Act.2477    We will also hear very personal testimony. Last month, Chinese2478authorities launched a multi-city crackdown on the unregistered house2479Zion Church and detained several individuals including Pastor Ezra Jin.2480Many of us condemned this violation.2481    His daughter, Grace Jin Drexel, joins us today to speak about her2482father and call for his release. Grace was recently a staff member of2483the CECC, helping raise awareness about prisoners of conscience2484persecuted for their faith. Now her own father is one. We stand with2485Grace and her family and join in their call.2486    We must commit our voices, loudly and clearly, to defend the rights2487of those targeted for exercising their right to freedom of thought,2488conscience, and belief. But to be effective, our voice must carry moral2489credibility. I worry that we are not living up to what is expected of2490us. The United States is at its best when we lead by example. When we2491do not, we do a disservice to those overseas we are trying to help.2492    Earlier this week--you may have read this in the news--congregants2493of a church in Charlotte, North Carolina, scattered into the woods when2494masked federal agents arrived and detained one of their members. The2495church has suspended services until members feel safe to gather again2496without the threat of Border Patrol raids.2497    In July, the Bishop of the Diocese of San Bernardino, California,2498told the 1.2 million people in his diocese to stay home from Mass on2499Sundays to avoid being questioned or detained by ICE. I spoke with2500three Catholic bishops yesterday who reiterated the concern that they2501have about members of their church being afraid to go to church. Imam2502Ayman Soliman, who fled persecution in Egypt and served as chaplain at2503the Cincinnati Children's Hospital, spent two and half months in ICE2504detention.2505    Our message to the Chinese government is that it is wrong for them2506to round up members of the Zion Church, to force worshipers to go2507underground, and to put clergy in jail. Our voice would have much more2508credibility if our own government were not acting in a similar way.2509    The freedom of thought, conscience, and religion is universal. This2510right exists regardless of one's beliefs, or national or citizenship2511status. Let us be clear and consistent in this message that we are2512sending to the people of China.2513    Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership. I yield back2514my time.25152516                       Submissions for the Record25172518                              ----------25192520        Question for Ambassador Brownback from Hon. Dale Strong25212522    Question. People of faith are experiencing a rise in discrimination2523and persecution across the world. Christians in Nigeria and across2524Europe. Jews in the United States. Hindus in Bangladesh--and sadly, I2525could keep going. 1. How does China's stance on religious freedom2526specifically impact global trends or policies? 2. Given that religious2527freedom is a founding principle of the United States, what specific2528actions can we take to counter China's global influence?2529    Answer. China's stance on religious freedom as a Country of2530Particular Concern and still the second largest economy is highly2531damaging to the global human rights movement. They are the greatest2532enabler of human rights abuses in the world. They support rogue regimes2533and have three genocides going on in their own country right now. Other2534nations see this and determine they too can violate religious freedom2535fundamental rights with impunity. We must stand up to China and they2536must feel actual consequences for their abuses.2537    We can counter China by deploying religious freedom as a tool of2538our national security interest. As I said in my testimony, the CCP2539fears religious freedom in their own country more than they fear our2540aircraft carriers or nuclear weapons. The CCP spends billions annually2541to suppress people of every faith. They fear people of faith. We should2542stand boldly and publicly with the Chinese Christians, Tibetan2543Buddhists, Uyghur Muslims, and Falun Gong practitioners. They are our2544strongest allies against the Chinese regime that seeks global2545dominance.25462547                                 ______25482549                    Question for Ismail Juma (Ma Ju)2550                         from Hon. Dan Sullivan25512552    Question. Mr. Ma, in your testimony, you referred to repercussions2553you have faced for your actions and that others have faced merely for2554contacting you. We know from reports that you have been subjected to2555lawfare here in the United States, where a Chinese state-owned2556enterprise filed a lawsuit against you in a New York state court. Could2557you tell us about that case? In your opinion, is the PRC seeking to2558weaponize the American legal system against you to silence your2559activism? Have you experienced other types of transnational repression2560or harassment since you started speaking out about human rights and2561religious freedom in China?25622563    Answer. Thank you very much for your thoughtful questions and your2564contin-2565ued attention to my case. I appreciate the opportunity to provide a2566more detailed2567response.25682569Background of the Case and Real Motivations25702571    As I mentioned, this lawsuit is not just a simple legal dispute.2572Before the lawsuit was filed, I had received explicit warnings from2573individuals connected to the plaintiffs that if I did not stop my2574advocacy and exposure of certain truths, there would be consequences.2575This lawsuit is essentially a follow-through on those threats. The true2576purpose is not to resolve any genuine financial claim, but to entangle2577me in a legal battle that drains my time, resources, and energy. It is2578a form of ``lawfare'' intended to intimidate and silence me, preventing2579me from assisting others, submitting reports to international bodies2580like the UN, and revealing further truths about human rights abuses.25812582The Impact on Others and Broader Context25832584    In fact, some individuals who collaborated with me to submit2585reports to the UN have already faced sentencing in China. Others who2586tried to provide me with information or evidence have also been2587persecuted. This demonstrates a broader pattern of transnational2588repression.2589Legislative and Sanction Recommendations25902591    Therefore, I would like to suggest that the U.S. consider2592legislative measures to address this issue. Specifically, the U.S.2593should implement a background and motive review for lawsuits2594originating from authoritarian states. Such a review would examine the2595political motives and the potential for these lawsuits to be tools of2596intimidation rather than genuine legal claims. Without such safeguards,2597authoritarian regimes can exploit the legal system to pursue political2598ends on U.S. soil.2599    Additionally, it is crucial not only to impose sanctions on high-2600level officials, but also on mid- and lower-level participants who2601carry out these acts of repression--such as judges, legal officials,2602and local enforcers involved in these transnational cases. By holding2603all levels of perpetrators accountable, we send a strong message that2604the international community will not tolerate such abuses.26052606Conclusion26072608    In summary, my case is a clear example of how authoritarian regimes2609attempt to leverage foreign legal systems to silence dissent and hinder2610human rights advocacy. I hope that through your support, we can2611consider legislative actions to scrutinize the motives of such lawsuits2612and ensure that all those complicit in these abuses face appropriate2613consequences.2614    Thank you once again for your attention and support. I am grateful2615for your commitment to defending human rights and freedom of speech.26162617                                 ______26182619                    Question for Ismail Juma (Ma Ju)2620                         from Hon. Dale Strong26212622    Question. People of faith are experiencing a rise in discrimination2623and persecution across the world. Christians in Nigeria and across2624Europe. Jews in the United States. Hindus in Bangladesh--and sadly, I2625could keep going. 1. How does China's stance on religious freedom2626specifically impact global trends or policies? 2. Given that religious2627freedom is a founding principle of the United States, what specific2628actions can we take to counter China's global influence?26292630    Answer. Thank you for your thoughtful questions and for your2631commitment to addressing these critical issues. In addition to the2632details about my own case, I'd like to provide a broader perspective on2633how China's approach to religious freedom is influencing global trends2634and what concrete steps the United States can take in2635response.2636    In essence, China is not merely suppressing religious freedom at2637home but is also exporting a model where the state fully controls2638religion and can tighten restrictions under the guise of security. This2639model is being subtly promoted worldwide in several ways. For example,2640China is working to redefine human rights and religious freedom in2641global discourse by prioritizing ``development-first'' and ``non-2642interference'' narratives in international forums. They normalize the2643idea that states can reshape religious practices under anti-terrorism2644or stability pretexts. They export the ``Xinjiang governance toolkit,''2645meaning surveillance tech and big-data policing methods are sold to2646other countries, providing a template for controlling religious groups.2647There's also a silencing effect in the Muslim world, where Muslim-2648majority nations that rely on Chinese investment often remain silent or2649supportive regarding Xinjiang, thus weakening collective condemnation2650of religious persecution. Finally, by pushing for stronger digital2651censorship of religious content, China encourages other states to adopt2652similar restrictive measures, making them appear more globally2653acceptable.2654    Given that religious freedom is a core American value, there are2655concrete steps the United States can take. At the government and policy2656level, it's important to use existing legal tools effectively,2657enforcing laws like the IRFA and the Global Magnitsky Act, and updating2658sanctions on officials and entities involved in religious repression.2659Integrate religious freedom criteria into trade and tech controls by2660scrutinizing companies that export surveillance tech for religious2661profiling and imposing stricter export controls. In multilateral2662arenas, introduce alternative texts that affirm religious freedom and2663coordinate with allies to counter China's repressive models. Also,2664provide clearer refugee pathways for those fleeing religious2665persecution and work with transit countries to prevent forced returns.2666    At the civil society and professional community level, it's crucial2667to preserve evidence and memory, collaborate to document religious2668repression, shape academic and media narratives to counter China's2669official story, and establish ethical guardrails in the tech sector to2670avoid contributing to religious persecution.2671    Within Muslim and minority faith communities, integrate the Chinese2672case into global Muslim discussions using accurate information, and2673make ``religious freedom plus China'' a local political issue by2674engaging with local representatives. Provide anonymous platforms for2675those inside China to share their stories safely and avoid flattening2676all Chinese people into a single enemy, so that the narrative remains2677focused on the government's policies rather than creating unnecessary2678division.2679    In conclusion, hope comes from the evidence and memory we preserve2680today, the individuals within China who still hold on to their2681humanity, and those abroad who refuse to remain silent. By using legal2682tools, media resources, academic efforts, and interfaith solidarity, we2683ensure that China's model does not become the new global norm but2684rather remains a cautionary tale.2685    Thank you once again for your dedication to these principles and2686for considering these comprehensive steps. I am grateful for your2687support in defending human rights and religious freedom.2688                                 ______26892690               Questions for Bob Fu from Hon. Dale Strong26912692    Question. People of faith are experiencing a rise in discrimination2693and persecution across the world. Christians in Nigeria and across2694Europe. Jews in the United States. Hindus in Bangladesh--and sadly, I2695could keep going. 1. How does China's stance on religious freedom2696specifically impact global trends or policies? 2. Given that religious2697freedom is a founding principle of the United States, what specific2698actions can we take to counter China's global influence?26992700    Answer. Thank you, Congressman Strong, for that important question.2701You are right that religious persecution is rising worldwide. But China2702is not just another country on that list--the Chinese Communist Party2703is the driving force shaping global trends of repression today.2704    First, China has built the world's most sophisticated system of2705digital control over religion--using facial recognition, big-data2706policing, and AI profiling to monitor churches, mosques, temples, and2707even private prayer groups. This model is now exported through Chinese2708technology companies to parts of Africa, Central Asia, and the Middle2709East. As a result, the CCP's assumption that religion is a ``security2710threat'' is spreading globally.2711    Second, China's policy of criminalizing normal religious practice--2712Sunday school, tithing, Bible studies, children's education--is now2713influencing governments that rely on Beijing for loans or political2714cover. The CCP's language of ``subversion,'' ``illegal religious2715activity,'' and ``national security risk'' is being adopted in other2716authoritarian states to justify their own repression.2717    Third, China is conducting transnational repression far beyond its2718borders. In my written testimony I documented cases where Chinese2719police, state security, and online agents have intimidated pastors,2720human rights defenders, and families, all living legally in the United2721States. This emboldens other regimes to reach across borders to silence2722people of faith.2723    Because religious freedom is a founding principle of the United2724States, we have both a moral duty and a strategic interest to respond.2725    First, the U.S. should lead a global coalition of democracies to2726track and counter the export of China's religious-control model--2727similar to the Clean Network Initiative but focused specifically on2728religious freedom.2729    Second, we should make religious freedom a core component of trade,2730technology, and security agreements--especially where Chinese2731surveillance tools are being used to target believers.2732    Third, we need robust use of Global Magnitsky sanctions, not only2733against Beijing but also against provincial security officials, police2734chiefs, prosecutors, and prison administrators responsible for2735persecuting Christians, Uyghurs, Tibetans, and2736others.2737    Fourth, we must protect diaspora communities here in the United2738States--by prosecuting CCP operatives who intimidate religious exiles,2739shutting down illegal ``police service stations,'' and expanding2740support for asylum seekers fleeing religious persecution.2741    Finally, we should invest in independent civil society and secure2742access to uncensored religious materials--because every time a Bible2743reaches a home in China, it pushes back against authoritarian control.2744    In short, China's repression is not contained within its borders--2745it is becoming a blueprint for authoritarian regimes worldwide. But the2746United States, by leading with clarity and resolve, can help ensure2747that the fundamental right to believe is protected for all people,2748everywhere.27492750    Question. The Chinese Communist Party forces its ideology into all2751areas of religious life, turning places of worship into tools for2752indoctrination and limiting personal faith. How does the overhaul of2753religious institutions in China specifically2754manipulate and threaten people of faith in China? Can you share some2755examples, please?27562757    Answer. Thank you Congressman Strong for your question. China today2758represents the most comprehensive attempt by any modern government to2759rewrite, control, and ultimately replace religion with loyalty to the2760Communist Party. The CCP's overhaul of religious institutions is not2761simply regulation--it is a full-scale ideological campaign to transform2762faith communities into instruments of state control.2763    First, the CCP has forced its political ideology directly into the2764heart of worship. Churches, temples, and mosques are required to2765display Xi Jinping's portraits, national flags, and ``Core Socialist2766Values'' above or beside their sacred texts. Bibles and hymnals are2767rewritten to reflect Party doctrine. In one well-known example, the CCP2768altered the Gospel story of the woman caught in adultery, replacing2769Jesus's words of mercy with a claim that Jesus stoned the woman to2770death--because mercy was deemed politically ``incorrect.'' This is not2771theological debate; it is manipulation designed to erode the2772foundations of belief.2773    Second, religious institutions are being replaced by Party-run2774structures. Thousands of churches have been shut down or forcibly2775merged into approved ``patriotic associations,'' where sermons must be2776submitted in advance, pastors are required to undergo political2777training, and children under 18 are forbidden to attend any religious2778activity. The goal is to cut off the transmission of faith to the next2779generation.2780    Third, the CCP uses advanced surveillance to intimidate and control2781believers. In many regions, entrance to churches requires facial2782recognition scans; police sit in on worship services; and digital2783monitoring systems flag pastors as ``pre-crime threats'' if they gather2784people in homes or conduct discipleship training. This makes normal2785religious life impossible and places believers under constant fear.2786    Fourth, when independent churches resist, the CCP criminalizes2787them. In my testimony, I detailed cases such as Early Rain Covenant2788Church, Zion Church, and the recent Golden Lampstand Church verdict in2789Shanxi. In each case, normal activities like tithing, Bible teaching,2790and helping the poor were redefined as ``fraud,'' ``illegal business,''2791or ``endangering national security.'' Pastors and elder boards have2792been sentenced to years in prison for simply living out their faith.2793Pastor Yang Rongli received a 15-year sentence back in June this year2794for her leadership in Golden Lampstand Church, under the pretext of2795``fraud,'' while her husband, pastor Wang Xiaoguang, was sentenced to2796nearly 10 years along with the other 10 church leaders under the exact2797same fabricated charge of fraud.2798    So what does all this mean for people of faith in China?2799    It means their sacred spaces are turned into political classrooms,2800their scriptures are rewritten, their children are barred from belief,2801their pastors are treated as criminals, and their faith is monitored by2802the state at every moment.2803    In short, the CCP's overhaul of religious institutions is designed2804not just to control religion, but to replace it--so that allegiance to2805the Party comes before allegiance to God.2806                                 ______28072808          Questions for Bhuchung Tsering from Hon. Dale Strong28092810    Question. People of faith are experiencing a rise in discrimination2811and persecution across the world. Christians in Nigeria and across2812Europe. Jews in the United States. Hindus in Bangladesh--and sadly, I2813could keep going. 1. How does China's stance on religious freedom2814specifically impact global trends or policies? 2. Given that religious2815freedom is a founding principle of the United States, what specific2816actions can we take to counter China's global influence?28172818    Answer.28192820    1. China's violation of religious freedom and its attempt to make2821religion subservient to the Chinese Communist Party impacts religious2822leaders and the followers of religious traditions throughout the world.2823China is trying to gain international legitimacy through devious means2824and exerting direct and indirect pressure on international religious2825institutions to support its agenda. For example, it has impacted the2826policies of the Vatican towards Tibetan Buddhism and H.H. the Dalai2827Lama, fearing that this might anger the Chinese Government.28282829    2. In general the United States can be proactive and forceful in2830standing up for religious freedom of the people under the rule of the2831People's Republic of China, at the United Nations and other2832international fora, including in the Ministerial to Advance Religious2833Freedom. In particular, for Tibetan Buddhism, the United States should2834strongly reiterate the spirit of the Tibetan Policy and Support Act of28352020 by asserting its position of supporting the authority of this 14th2836Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Buddhists on matters concerning the2837reincarnation system. Where2838Chinese officials are seen to be interfering in this process, the2839concerned individuals should be sanctioned under TPSA.28402841    Question. The Chinese Communist Party forces its ideology into all2842areas of religious life, turning places of worship into tools for2843indoctrination and limiting personal faith. How does the overhaul of2844religious institutions in China specifically2845manipulate and threaten people of faith in China? Can you share some2846examples, please?28472848    Answer. In terms of Tibetan Buddhism, China is now attempting to2849construct a new framework for the Buddhist institutions under which all2850spiritual and temporal decision making concerning monastic activities2851is in the hands of the Chinese Communist Party and not with the2852spiritual masters as was the tradition. The2853Buddhist monasteries and nunneries in Tibet are governed by a CCP-2854appointed2855``Democratic Management Committee'' that puts CCP objectives above any2856spiritual tradition in the activities of the institutions. For example,2857the Tibetan monastic education curriculum, traditionally set by learned2858spiritual masters, is formulated by the atheist Chinese government and2859political indoctrination has been made part of the mandated study for2860the monks and nuns.2861    Above all, the atheist Chinese government is claiming authority to2862control the reincarnation system of Tibetan Buddhism, a deeply2863spiritual process, in order to use it for its political objectives.2864They have already tried it with the appointment of their own Panchen2865Lama and want to do so with the next Dalai Lama.2866    The teacher-student relationship of traditional Tibetan Buddhism2867that has kept the faith alive for centuries has now been broken, with2868students not being allowed to follow masters of their choosing.2869Similarly, freedom to go on pilgrimages to sacred sites in Tibet are2870severely restricted through restrictive permit systems for Tibetans and2871denial of passports for those desiring to go to the holiest Buddhist2872site in Bodh Gaya, India, where Buddha achieved enlightenment.28732874                                 ______28752876          Question for Grace Jin Drexel from Hon. Dale Strong28772878    Question. People of faith are experiencing a rise in discrimination2879and persecution across the world. Christians in Nigeria and across2880Europe. Jews in the United States. Hindus in Bangladesh--and sadly, I2881could keep going. 1. How does China's stance on religious freedom2882specifically impact global trends or policies? 2. Given that religious2883freedom is a founding principle of the United States, what specific2884actions can we take to counter China's global influence?28852886    Answer. The tragic rise of religious persecution around the world2887often occurs because governments are unable or unwilling to stop it--2888too often turning a blind eye to prejudice or even subtly encouraging2889the repression. But China is unique in the scale and extent to which2890the government itself is actively driving the persecution and building2891an ecosystem of techno-authoritarian tools that would help other2892governments do the same. They are also softening global norms that2893would protect religious groups from these abuses. No government today2894has so directly and so brutally repressed so many. The United States2895has far more power than any other country to hold China to account and2896to turn back the rising tide of repressive governments' tools and2897momentum in targeting faith. It must be more aggressive in stopping its2898own companies from supporting China's techno-authoritarian ecosystem,2899and in standing up for the faithful in China to show that China, and2900other powers, cannot repress faith with impunity. Members of the U.S.2901Government, across all levels and including at multilateral meetings,2902should also continue to mention those detained or persecuted for their2903faith in every meeting with their Chinese counterparts.29042905                 Statement Affirming the Continuation29062907                    of the Institution of Dalai Lama29082909                              july 2, 202529102911                 (Translated from the original Tibetan)29122913    On 24 September 2011, at a meeting of the heads of Tibetan2914spiritual traditions, I made a statement to fellow Tibetans in and2915outside Tibet, followers of Tibetan Buddhism, and those who have a2916connection with Tibet and Tibetans, regarding whether the institution2917of the Dalai Lama should continue. I stated, ``As far back as 1969, I2918made clear that concerned people should decide whether the Dalai Lama's2919reincarnations should continue in the future.''2920    I also said, ``When I am about ninety I will consult the high Lamas2921of the Tibetan Buddhist traditions, the Tibetan public, and other2922concerned people who follow2923Tibetan Buddhism, to re-evaluate whether or not the institution of the2924Dalai Lama should continue.''2925    Although I have had no public discussions on this issue, over the2926last 14 years leaders of Tibet's spiritual traditions, members of the2927Tibetan Parliament in Exile, participants in a Special General Body2928Meeting, members of the Central Tibetan Administration, NGOs, Buddhists2929from the Himalayan region, Mongolia, Buddhist republics of the Russian2930Federation, and Buddhists in Asia including mainland China, have2931written to me with reasons, earnestly requesting that the institution2932of the Dalai Lama continue. In particular, I have received messages2933through various channels from Tibetans in Tibet making the same appeal.2934In accordance with all these requests, I am affirming that the2935institution of the Dalai Lama will continue.2936    The process by which a future Dalai Lama is to be recognized has2937been clearly established in the 24 September 2011 statement which2938states that responsibility for doing so will rest exclusively with2939members of the Gaden Phodrang Trust, the Office of His Holiness the2940Dalai Lama. They should consult the various heads of the2941Tibetan Buddhist traditions and the reliable oath-bound Dharma2942Protectors who are linked inseparably to the lineage of the Dalai2943Lamas. They should accordingly carry out the procedures of search and2944recognition in accordance with past tradition.2945    I hereby reiterate that the Gaden Phodrang Trust has sole authority2946to recognize the future reincarnation; no one else has any such2947authority to interfere in this2948matter.29492950Dalai Lama29512952Dharamshala295321 May 202529542955[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]29562957                          Witness Biographies29582959    Ambassador Sam Brownback, Ambassador at Large for International2960Religious Freedom (2018-2021), Governor of Kansas (2011-2018), U.S.2961Senator (1996-2011)29622963    Sam Brownback served as Ambassador at Large for International2964Religious Freedom from February 2018 to January 2021. He served as2965Governor of Kansas from 2011 to 2018. Prior to that he represented his2966state in the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives. While a2967member of the Senate, he worked actively on the issue of religious2968freedom in multiple countries and was a key sponsor of the2969International Religious Freedom Act of 1998. Prior to his public2970service, Ambassador Brownback practiced law and taught agricultural law2971at Kansas State University. He earned a B.S. from Kansas State2972University and a J.D. from the University of Kansas. Ambassador2973Brownback currently serves as co-chair of the International Religious2974Freedom Summit and chairman of the National Committee for Religious2975Freedom.29762977    Ismail ``Ma Ju'' Juma, Hui Muslim Human Rights Advocate29782979    Ismail Ju Ma is a dedicated human rights activist and community2980organizer with a background in the study of religious history. He has2981been actively involved in defending the rights of persecuted2982communities, supporting refugees, and promoting interfaith dialog. As2983the founder of Hope Umbrella International Foundation (HUIF), he works2984to protect freedom seekers, assist new immigrants, and foster2985reconciliation between ethnic and religious groups.29862987    Bhuchung K. Tsering, Leader, International Campaign for Tibet2988Research and Monitoring Unit29892990    Bhuchung K. Tsering was born in Tibet. His family fled to India in29911960 in the wake of the Chinese Communist invasion. He studied in India2992and received his B.A. in English literature from the University of2993Delhi in 1982. Thereafter, he worked as a journalist with Indian2994Express in New Delhi, before joining the Central Tibetan Administration2995(CTA) in Dharamsala, India, in January 1984. He worked as the editor of2996Tibetan Bulletin, the official CTA journal and served in the Office of2997H.H. the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala as well as at the Office of Tibet in2998Switzerland. He joined the International Campaign for Tibet in2999Washington, DC in 1995 and currently leads the Research and Monitoring3000Unit. He was a member of the task force set up by the Central Tibetan3001Administration to work on issues relating to the dialog process with3002Chinese leadership.3003    He was also a member of the team led by the envoys of H.H. the3004Dalai Lama in the discussions that they had with the Chinese leadership3005between 2002 and 2010. He has contributed articles on Tibet and related3006issues to Indian, Nepalese, Tibetan, Swiss, and American journals. He3007has also testified before Congress on behalf of the International3008Campaign for Tibet and spoken at universities and think tanks. He was3009awarded the Truman-Reagan Freedom Medal by the Victims of Communism3010Memorial Foundation in 2023.30113012    Bob Fu, Founder and President, ChinaAid30133014    Bob (Xiqiu) Fu is one of the leading voices in the world for3015persecuted faith communities in China. Fu was born and raised in3016mainland China and was a student leader during the Tiananmen Square3017demonstrations in 1989. Fu graduated from the People's (Renmin)3018University in Beijing and from 1993 to 1996 taught English to Communist3019Party officials. Fu was also a house church leader in Beijing until he3020and his wife, Heidi, were imprisoned for two months for ``illegal3021evangelism.'' Bob and Heidi fled to the United States as religious3022refugees in 1997 and founded ChinaAid in 2002 to bring international3023attention to China's gross human rights violations and to promote3024religious freedom and the rule of law in China. As president of3025ChinaAid, Fu has testified before the congressional Tom Lantos Human3026Rights Commission, the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the U.S.3027Commission on International Religious Freedom, the Congressional-3028Executive Commission on China, the United Nations Commission on Human3029Rights, the Foreign Press Association, the European Commission, and3030European Union Parliament. Fu regularly briefs the State Department and3031Members of Congress on the status of religious freedom and the rule of3032law in China. In 2008, Fu was invited to brief President George W. Bush3033on religious freedom and human rights in China. Fu has a Ph.D. from St.3034John's College at the University of Durham and a master's degree from3035Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. He was awarded an3036honorary doctoral degree from Midwest University, where he served as a3037distinguished professor on religion and public policy. A member of the3038Council on Foreign Relations, Fu currently serves as the Family3039Research Council's Senior Fellow for International Religious Freedom.3040He is the winner of the 2020 Wilberforce Award from the Colson Center3041and the Editor-In-Chief of the Chinese Law and Religion Monitor. Fu is3042the author of ``God's Double Agent and The Politics of Inclusive3043Pluralism.''30443045    Grace Jin Drexel, daughter of Pastor Mingri ``Ezra'' Jin30463047    Grace Jin Drexel is the daughter of Pastor Ezra Jin Mingri of Zion3048Church in China. Zion Church is one of the largest and most influential3049house churches in China. In October 2025, Pastor Jin and 22 others were3050arrested and are currently detained in Beihai, Guangxi as part of the3051largest crackdown against independent house churches in China in the3052last 40 years. Grace has been advocating for her father ever since. She3053currently serves as a National Security Research Analyst at the U.S.3054Senate and previously worked as a Research Associate at the3055Congressional-Executive Commission on China, where she focused on3056religious freedom and freedom of expression. She has an MA in3057Transnational Justice and Human Rights from Hebrew University in3058Jerusalem and a BA from UCLA.30593060                                 [all]