S.Hrg.119-214

1[Senate Hearing 119-214]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-21456               NOMINATION OF MICHAEL SELIG TO BE CHAIR-7                MAN AND COMMISSIONER OF THE COMMODITY8                FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION9=======================================================================1011                                HEARING1213                               BEFORE THE1415                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,16                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY1718                          UNITED STATES SENATE1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             FIRST SESSION2324                               __________2526                           November 19, 20252728                               __________2930                       Printed for the use of the31           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry3233[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3435                  Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/3637                                __________3839                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4061-997 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20254142-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4344           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY4546                    JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas, Chairman47MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota48JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado49JONI ERNST, Iowa                     TINA SMITH, Minnesota50CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois51ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas               CORY BOOKER, New Jersey52TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico53JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia54CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa               PETER WELCH, Vermont55JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania56DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                ADAM SCHIFF, California57JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan5859               Fitzhugh Elder IV, Majority Staff Director60                  Corey Weber, Majority Chief Counsel61                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk62                Lauren Santabar, Minority Staff Director63                 Chu-Yuan Hwang, Minority Chief Counsel6465                           C O N T E N T S6667                              ----------6869                      Wednesday, November 19, 20257071                                                                   Page7273Hearing:7475Nomination of Michael Selig to be Chairman and Commissioner of76  the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.......................     17778                              ----------7980                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS8182Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas......     183Klobuchar, Hon. Amy, U.S. Senator from the State of Minnesota....     48485                                WITNESS8687Selig, Michael, of Florida, to be Chairman and Commissioner of88  the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.......................     589                              ----------9091                                APPENDIX9293Prepared Statements:94    Selig, Michael...............................................    309596Document(s) Submitted for the Record:97Boozman, Hon. John:98    Agricultural Industry Stakeholders in support of Michael99      Selig, letter of support...................................    32100    Crypto Council for Innovation in support of Michael Selig,101      letter of support..........................................    34102103Selig, Michael:104    Committee questionnaire, Office of Government Ethics105      Executive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure106      Report and 5-day letter filed by Michael Selig.............    36107108Question and Answer:109Selig, Michael:110    Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........    70111    Written response to questions from Hon. Mitch McConnell......    71112    Written response to questions from Hon. Cindy Hyde-Smith.....    72113    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....    73114    Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......    73115    Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......    75116    Written response to questions from Hon. Elissa Slotkin.......    77117118  NOMINATION OF MICHAEL SELIG TO BE CHAIRMAN AND COMMISSIONER OF THE119                  COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION120121                              ----------122123                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2025124125                                        U.S. Senate126          Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry127                                                    Washington, DC.128    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:04 p.m., in129Room G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Boozman,130Chairman of the Committee, presiding.131    Present: Senators Boozman [presiding], Hoeven, Hyde-Smith,132Tuberville, Grassley, Fischer, Klobuchar, Bennet, Smith,133Booker, Lujan, Warnock, Fetterman, Schiff, and Slotkin.134135   STATEMENT OF HON. BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF136 ARKANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION,137                          AND FORESTRY138139    Chairman Boozman. It is my privilege to call the hearing to140order. I thank my colleagues for joining us today.141    We will consider the nomination of Mr. Michael Selig to be142Chairman and Commissioner of the Commodity Futures Trading143Commission. Mr. Selig, congratulations on your nomination, and144thank you very much for your willingness to serve and your145family. These are always family affairs. Again, we appreciate146you very much.147    As this Committee knows well, the CFTC is unique in that it148is the only federal financial regulator that oversees the149agriculture and energy risk management markets, the resiliency150of which are critical to our commodity supply chains. Well-151regulated liquid and resilient derivatives markets help our152producers manage risk ranging from interest rate uncertainty,153commodity pricing volatility, and natural disasters. In times154when uncontrollable risk can wipe away years of hard labor,155futures markets are an essential risk management tool in the156toolbox.157    The CFTC has historically taken a pragmatic, principles-158based approach to regulation and is engaged in constructive159dialog with regulated entities and market participants. This160approach, combined with diligent policing of the cash and161derivatives commodity markets, has resulted in trust in the162CFTC and the deepest, most liquid derivatives market in the163world. The CFTC's regulatory regime is time-tested and has164helped the derivatives market serve as a gold standard in terms165of withstanding external shocks, and the CFTC staff have166developed deep expertise of the derivatives market.167    The CFTC has seen the markets it regulates evolve over168time. Emerging markets such as crypto derivatives, and event169contracts have grown in size, and Congress, including this170Committee, is actively working on granting CFTC authority to171regulate the spot digital commodity markets. Turning attention172to the nuances that come with emerging markets while ensuring173focus on agricultural risk management markets is essential, and174it is my expectation that CFTC leadership will strike this175balance.176    I want to repeat that I have said multiple times before177this Committee, the CFTC is the right agency to regulate spot178digital commodity trading. The CFTC and only the CFTC should179regulate the trading of digital commodities. This is because180only the CFTC understands the unique characteristics of181commodities and commodity-based contracts.182    While the CFTC has the right regulatory approach,183expertise, and skillset to handle this new responsibility, it184is up to Congress to grant the agency this new authority to185regulate spot digital commodity trading. Failure by Congress to186do so will leave U.S. consumers vulnerable to bad actors and187will keep the U.S. behind the rest of the world. Though a188regulatory framework for spot digital commodities is yet to be189authorized by Congress, the markets and underlying technology190are fast at work. Absent a comprehensive U.S. regulatory191framework, bad actors will continue to go unchecked, and192legitimate entities will be disincentivized from participating193in U.S. markets. All the while, U.S. consumer participation194will continue to grow, as will the risk faced by consumers.195    The Committee has an opportunity to advance its portion of196the regulatory framework that protects U.S. customers, also197allows U.S. businesses to grow, and recognizes the importance198of innovative blockchain technology and fundamental principles199like the right to self-custody. I want to thank Senator Booker200for his partnership on our bipartisan discussion draft, and I201look forward to working with him and the rest of the Committee202to advance a bipartisan proposal out of this Committee. The203time to act is now, and I look forward to working with each of204you toward advancing the goal.205    As this Committee moves forward with its bipartisan206proposal to grant CFTC authority, I am eager to work with Mr.207Selig and CFTC on ensuring we get this right. It is so, so very208important. I look forward to hearing from Mr. Selig on these209issues. Again, congratulations on your nomination.210    Senator Klobuchar is going to join us in a bit. You will211see that there is just all kinds of stuff going on right now,212and so we are going to have people coming and going, so she213will join us momentarily.214    We will now proceed with our witness introduction.215Following the introduction, the Ranking Member will be around,216and we will recognize her at that time.217    I now recognize Chairman Christopher Giancarlo, who will218introduce our nominee, Mr. Michael Selig.219    Mr. Giancarlo. Thank you, Chairman Boozman, Members of the220Committee. It is an honor to be before you once again, if I may221say. I have had this honor several times in the past, both as a222nominee for Commissioner and as Chairman, and I am joined here223today by a number of other distinguished former Commissioners224and Chairs who have also had the honor of appearing before this225Committee.226    As they know and I know, this Committee often meets in a227much smaller room, a room that really features what I think one228of the most distinctive features of any of the architecture of229the Senate buildings, and that is a simple table. This230Committee, as you know, meet around a table in the same way231that American families, American farmers, American producers232meet around their often kitchen table to discuss issues of233importance to them, and I think it is one of the hallmarks of234this Committee that you do the same.235    I am here today to introduce Michael Selig. He served for236me when I was at the CFTC as a law clerk, and I got to know him237then back in 2015 as someone of just really remarkable clarity,238certainty, evenhandedness. He was a fine colleague right from239the beginning and someone who immediately dove into our work.240Over the next 10 years, he became an outstanding lawyer in the241area of the Commodities Exchange Act, so much so that in 2022,242when I had joined the law firm of Willkie Farr & Gallagher, I243invited Mike to join me there. He came on and quickly244established himself and became a partner in the firm, no easy245task in a large Manhattan law firm to do, and he did it with246the same effortlessness and the same clarity of vision that he247had when he served for me as a law clerk.248    I was delighted earlier this year when he stepped down from249the firm, not that he stepped down, but that he went to the SEC250and joined the Crypto Task Force and now serves as an advisor251to Chairman Paul Atkins.252    The Mike Selig that you will be hearing from today is253someone who I think you will find treats people with a fairness254and an evenhandedness that is very welcome in a government255official. He is someone that is hardworking, that is dedicated256to coming up with the right outcomes by first hearing every257point of view and getting to a balanced result. He is someone258who has a great deal of respect for American financial markets,259especially the markets overseen by the CFTC. He recognizes that260one of the underpinnings of our strong American economy is261these robust and strong markets, but also markets that are very262well regulated, and he has a great deal of respect for the role263of regulation.264    Most importantly, he is somebody who is really determined265to serve the producers, the farmers, the ranchers, and the266everyday consumers that depend on these markets to serve their267needs, to hedge their risk in production. He is someone who is268going to follow the example of his predecessors and make sure269he gets around to the states that are represented here to make270sure that producers of those states know that these markets are271serving their needs, and in areas where perhaps they are not,272where he can address those needs when he comes back to273Washington.274    Finally, I will just leave you with this. As someone who275sat in that seat as Chairman of the agency, I think I know what276it takes to be successful, to serve the needs of America's277important constituents, and I know that Mike Selig has all the278characteristics that will allow him to succeed in this279important role.280    With that, I thank you for this opportunity philosophically281to be at your table, even though we are not in your hearing282room today, and I wish you a good hearing. Thank you very much.283    Chairman Boozman. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.284    Senator Klobuchar has joined us, and I appreciate her285flexibility in helping us get this arranged today, and these286are important positions.287    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.288    Chairman Boozman. With that----289290  STATEMENT OF HON. KLOBUCHAR, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF291                           MINNESOTA292293    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Well, a nominee can wait through294my remarks here for a few minutes. I appreciate it.295    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for being here. Thank you,296Chairman Boozman.297    I would also like to welcome your wife, Ariel. I know she298is here. Where? Right there. Very good. Your parents.299    I want to welcome back, of course, the Chairman, who has300appeared many times before this Committee, as well as CFTC301Acting Chairman Pham and former CFTC Commissioners Walt Lukken302and Scott O'Malia, as well as Jill Sommers, so thank you for303being here.304    The role of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, as we305talked about yesterday, could not be more critical, as on-306again, off-again tariffs, rising input costs, and market307fluctuations have created a lot of chaos for farmers and308businesses. They need a well-functioning and reliable309derivatives market to help them manage their risk.310    In addition to traditional commodities markets, the CFTC311has also seen significant growth in new markets, such as those312for event contracts, with trading volumes going from313essentially nonexistent to billions of dollars per month. This314Committee is currently contemplating a discussion draft of315legislation that would, for the first time, give the CFTC316regulatory authority over spot markets in digital assets, as317they also are dramatically increasing in trading volume.318    In addition to these new technologies and new markets, the319CFTC is also confronting broader shifts in market structure,320including the growing influence of non-traditional321intermediaries, the rise of vertically integrated operations,322and moves to increased trading hours. These developments raise323important questions about the scope of the CFTC's oversight and324its ability to respond swiftly and effectively to risks in325complex and fast-moving markets.326    To tackle these challenges head-on, I believe it is in the327public interest that the CFTC not only have a confirmed328Chairman, but also a fully functioning Commission. That would329include, of course, a Democratic appointee, in fact, two330Democratic appointees. The CFTC has operated much of the past331year without a full complement of bipartisan Commissioners and332has been operating for months with only an acting Chairman.333This uncertainty surrounding the leadership at the CFTC has334only created more chaos for people who rely on the CFTC.335    Mr. Selig, as you and I discussed when we met, it is also336essential that the CFTC have the institutional capacity, both337in staffing and resources, to fulfill its mandate in the face338of what are existing challenges that have been there for a339while and also these emerging challenges and opportunities.340When the CFTC has lost about 20 percent of its staff--341obviously, you were not there--but when that has been342happening, it is critical that you ensure that the CFTC is able343to maintain the U.S. derivatives market position as the deepest344and most liquid in the world and that the CFTC can provide345robust protections for consumers, farmers, and businesses346across the country.347    Thank you very much, Mr. Selig. Congratulations on your348nomination, and I look forward to the hearing.349    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. With that,350let's administer the oath. Please stand and raise your right351hand.352    Do you swear or affirm that the statement you are about to353provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the354truth, so help you God?355    Mr. Selig. I do.356    Chairman Boozman. Do you agree that, if confirmed, you will357respond to requests to appear and testify before any duly358constituted Committee of the Senate?359    Mr. Selig. I do.360    Chairman Boozman. Very good. With that, you are recognized361for your statement.362363  STATEMENT OF MICHAEL SELIG, OF FLORIDA, TO BE CHAIRMAN AND364    COMMISSIONER OF THE COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION365366    Mr. Selig. Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member Klobuchar, and367distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the368opportunity to appear before you today as President Trump's369nominee for Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading370Commission. I am grateful to the President for placing his371trust and confidence in me to lead the CFTC during this372historic time. Of course, I want to thank the Members of the373Committee for taking the time to meet with me ahead of this374hearing. If confirmed, I look forward to working with all of375you to pursue the CFTC's important mission in promoting the376integrity, resilience, and vibrancy of America's commodity377derivatives markets.378    It is an honor to have former Commissioners and Chairmen in379the room today. Thank you for your guidance, wisdom, and380mentorship. I am grateful to my best friend and wife, Ariel,381who is here today, for her unwavering support.382    I would like to thank my parents, Robert and Sandy, for383joining me here. My parents impressed upon me the importance of384hard work, and they instilled in me a deep love for the United385States and its values. They inspired me with stories of my386family's earlier generations, who migrated here in the 1800s,387fought for the Union in the Civil War, served in both World388Wars and the Korean War, and pursued the American Dream. My389father was a district attorney and president of his local390school board. He ingrained in me the immense value of public391service.392    Early in my career, I served as a law clerk for CFTC393Commissioner Chris Giancarlo, who just spoke. He emphasized to394me the importance of derivatives markets to all Americans. Our395Nation's farmers, ranchers, energy producers, and commercial396businesses rely on futures and swaps for price discovery and397risk management. Robust markets for derivatives that enable398hedgers to lock in prices help ensure that the cost of399groceries, transportation, electronics, and all kinds of goods400and services do not fluctuate wildly for American consumers401each day. If confirmed, I would welcome the vital402responsibility to oversee the stability and security of these403markets and protect consumers from fraud and manipulation.404    During my years in private practice, I advised a wide range405of market participants, subject to regulation by the CFTC. From406commercial end users, such as agriculture, livestock, and407energy businesses, to financial institutions like futures408commission merchants, swap dealers, and exchanges, to new409entrants, including digital asset firms. I have seen firsthand410how regulators, unaware of the real-world impact of their411actions and zeal for regulation by enforcement, can drive412businesses offshore and smother entrepreneurs in red tape. I413recall helping an agricultural firm that was forced to divert414significant time and resources from its business to defend415itself in an extensive investigation for harmless errors in its416swap data reporting.417    Every day Americans pay the price for these regulatory418failures. If confirmed, I am committed to instituting419commonsense, principles-based regulations that facilitate well-420functioning markets and keep pace with the rapid speed of421innovation.422    I have long believed in the mission of public service. This423year, I was honored to serve as Chief Counsel of the Securities424and Exchange Commission's Crypto Task Force and Senior Advisor425to Chairman Paul Atkins. In this role, I have worked diligently426to modernize the SEC's regulations to reflect new and evolving427technologies. I have participated in the President's Working428Group on Digital Asset Markets and advised on a broad swath of429derivatives policy matters, including coordination with the430CFTC.431    Now, we are at a unique moment in the history of our432financial markets. A wide range of new technologies, products,433and platforms are emerging. Vertical integration is becoming434more prevalent, and we are seeing unprecedented retail435participation in the commodity markets. The digital asset436economy alone has grown from a mere curiosity to a nearly $4437trillion market. It is the American spirit to conquer new438frontiers. All Americans stand to benefit from a government439that embraces technology, productivity, and entrepreneurship.440Together, we can seize this generational opportunity to441modernize and future-proof our approach to financial regulation442and ensure that the great innovations of tomorrow are made in443America.444    If confirmed, I commit to you that the CFTC will have a445steady hand at the wheel. If confirmed, I pledge to work446tirelessly with this Committee to facilitate well-functioning447markets, promote competition and innovation, and ensure that448the CFTC remains a world-class regulator in this golden age of449American financial markets.450    Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to your451questions.452    [The prepared statement of Mr. Selig can be found on pages45330-31 in the appendix.]454    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Selig.455    Before I ask my questions, I would like to put letters of456support from agriculture and other stakeholders for Mr. Selig's457nomination into the record. Without objection, so ordered.458    [The letters can be found on pages 32-35 in the appendix.]459    Chairman Boozman. Mr. Selig, as this Committee deliberates460on granting the CFTC spot digital commodity regulatory461authority, what key considerations should we weigh, and why do462you feel the CFTC is the right regulator for spot digital463commodity trading?464    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for the time465that we spent in your office discussing these matters. I think466it is a critical opportunity for this Committee and for our467country to move forward with digital asset market structure468legislation. It has been a priority of the President and, of469course, is something that is great for this country.470    You know, we have so many entrepreneurs and builders and471developers that have been pushed offshore, and this has been472due to the lack of clarity. We need clear, simple guidelines.473We need consumer protection, and we need to stop with the474regulation by enforcement. I think this is a real opportunity475to develop a framework that can allow for software developers476to thrive, for new exchanges to crop up that are going to477protect investors and have the types of controls that you would478expect in an exchange, and make sure that we have the right479disclosure and requirements that we have typically in our480financial markets. I am excited about the opportunity to work481with your Committee on that.482    Chairman Boozman. Very good. As the Committee deliberates483granting the CFTC spot digital regulatory authority, how should484we think about DeFi in ensuring that activities with respect to485technology are not subject to inappropriate intermediary486registration regimes?487    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As I mentioned, I think488there is this issue of regulation by enforcement, and sometimes489we take a one-size-fits-all approach to all types of financial490products and services, but really, blockchain enables such a491broad swath of new types of products, services, applications,492and so it may not make sense in many cases to apply financial493regulation, for example, to a video game app that runs on a494blockchain.495    I think when we are thinking about DeFi, it is something of496a buzzword, but really we should be looking to on-chain markets497and on-chain applications and thinking about the features of498these applications, as well as where there is an actual499intermediary involved, where we have some operator or500administrator. In many cases that may not be, and so we have to501think about the best approach, and I look forward to working502with your office to figure that out.503    Chairman Boozman. The next question that I am going to ask504is really important and certainly very, very important to this505Committee. Can you describe your experience working with506agricultural stakeholders and how, if confirmed, you will507balance emerging market issues with maintaining focus on508agriculture risk management markets?509    Mr. Selig. Senator, I am very glad to have the support of510about 20 of the large trade groups in the agricultural space,511and agriculture is a very important constituency within this,512you know, of course, the Agriculture Committee, as well as the513CFTC. America's farmers and ranchers really are the backbone of514this country, and they keep Americans fed and nourished every515day, so it is very important that they have proper risk516management tools available to them that are regulated by market517regulators like the CFTC.518    My commitment to the agricultural world is that I will519always be an open door to hear your issues. I am committed to520being the sponsor and overseeing the Agricultural Advisory521Committee. As Chris Giancarlo mentioned in his introduction, I522plan to take a tour across the country and meet with the ag523community in each of your states, as well as many other states.524I think it is really important to be on the ground and really525see where everything is done and understand the businesses. As526being in private practice for many years, I really find it so527valuable to understand everyone's business.528    I also plan to have a dedicated advisor in my office that529will be an agriculture advisor that will advise me on these530issues day to day, and, of course, I hope to restore the531Agriculture Convention that has been historically in Kansas532City and plan to bring it back.533    Chairman Boozman. Very good. Can you describe the534importance of principle-based regulation and how it fosters535innovation?536    Mr. Selig. Senator, yes. Principles-based regulation came537out of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, and it has538really been a great innovation in regulation. It has allowed539for exchanges and market participants to have a lot of540flexibility in how they comply with certain core principles541that are really important to ensure that our markets have542integrity, that they are resilient, that they are vibrant, that543we protect investors from fraud and manipulation. The general544guidelines, for example, protecting against fraud and545manipulation, are there, but the exchanges and market546participants are able to figure out the best way to comply, and547that allows for innovation in the business sector. It allows548for innovation, with the regulators figuring out the best way549to help them get to a compliant state.550    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Klobuchar.551    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.552    I will start with what is on the minds of a lot of our553agriculture producers, farmers, because, as I discussed in my554opening, the CFTC is dealing with markets and financial555instruments that are getting increasingly complex. The core556mission is to ensure that the markets farmers and ranchers use557to manage their risk are safe, reliable, and function as558intended.559    Mr. Selig, how do you envision the CFTC continuing to560preserve these markets as a practical and accessible risk561management tool for farmers and other end users?562    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Ranking Member. I really enjoyed the563time in your office getting to discuss many of these issues.564They are really important to everyday Americans. As we565discussed, overregulation can really trickle down to the566everyday consumer. Many of us are getting ready to head home567for the holidays, and, you know, the price of airfare can568fluctuate based on jet fuel, but luckily, we are able to lock569in those prices as businesses and hedge that risk. It is also570something that affects the grocery store every day, so it is571really important that we have these risk management tools.572    I think it is vitally important that we consider how573overregulation of the real world, of energy, of agriculture, of574livestock, of technology, as we are discussing today, as well,575that has an everyday impact on consumers. My intention is to576modernize the rule set to make sure we are figuring out what577works, what does not work, and cutting back on what does not578work, fixing things that are broken, but not changing things579that are not broken where it is not necessary.580    I do think it is vitally important that we modernize and581that we get rid of the lore, the staff lore, the no-action582letters, all of this kind of unwritten rules of the road, where583it is really hard for everyday Americans to comply. If we put584things in writing, we figure out what works, put it through the585notice and comment process or do it through a staff process,586but make sure that what we are putting out there is something587that people can follow, that they understand, and it is able to588be complied with and not something you need to hire a high-589priced law firm to figure out.590    Senator Klobuchar. Do you think you can do that with your591existing resources when you add the potential crypto portfolio592on some of the new things that are coming your way for593regulation?594    Mr. Selig. Senator, I am looking forward to getting into595the seat, and if confirmed, I am really--I am going to take a596hard look at the resource needs of the agency and hope to do597that assessment and then get back to your office and work to598make sure we have the resources to fulfill our critical599mission.600    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. What specific regulatory tools or601approaches would you use to ensure that innovation in crypto602markets does not come at the expense of basic safeguards to603protect the public?604    Mr. Selig. It is vitally important that we have a cop on605the beat. It is critical that we cannot have another big loss606of customer funds, as we have seen with MF Global, Peregrine,607and most recently FTX. The CFTC has always been a regulator608that is focused on protecting customer funds, making sure that609we have appropriate disclosure where required to do so, and610protecting consumers because, at the end of the day, these are611critical markets, and they affect, as I mentioned, the price of612the groceries, as well as, of course, now as we are embarking613into new digital domains, they could affect things like GPU614costs and digital asset costs.615    I feel that we have massively overregulated the real-world616economy, as I mentioned. This affects agriculture, energy,617crypto, and so much more. If we can figure out what works, what618does not work, that is going to be the key to unlocking really619great markets for every individual and making sure that we do620not constrain our businesses and push them offshore.621    Senator Klobuchar. You represented numerous derivatives and622crypto clients--we talked about this--while in private623practice. Tell me, how are you going to deal with conflicts of624interest, especially when you will be the only person, if625confirmed, on the Commission?626    Mr. Selig. Senator, of course, I think that is a critical627issue. Having come from a law firm where I have been practicing628law for many years, I will always hold myself to the highest629ethical standards. I have, of course, been through a process630with the Nonpartisan Office of Government Ethics, as well as631the ethics staff at the CFTC. I have an ethics agreement that I632have signed and plan to adhere to all the terms of that. You633know, as a lawyer, you know, I am very much one that follows634the guidelines of the contract.635    Senator Klobuchar. Following up on that, because I think it636is going to be very critical for trust and the like, so there637are no Democratic members of the CFTC right now. I know you638cannot appoint them yourself. You have talked about the value639of minority Commissioners in particularly the leadership they640can offer in working together. What is your view on the641importance of preserving the voices of minority Commissioners?642Will you advocate for the nomination and appointment of a full643board, including two Democratic Commissioners at the CFTC?644    Mr. Selig. Senator, I do believe that it is very valuable645to have a diversity of viewpoints. I have always benefited from646that. My parents, sitting behind me, encouraged me to join the647high school debate team years ago, and I was always flipping648back and forth between different issues, and it really does649pressure test your thinking on things and really force you to650get to the right side. Oftentimes, you find out you are wrong.651I do think that is very important, and hope to have a diversity652of views throughout the building.653    Of course, you know, the President is the one that makes654these decisions around nominations, but I will work with655whoever the President chooses to appoint.656    Senator Klobuchar. In addition to the crypto--thank you--657the crypto coming your way, the volatility that we have seen in658the ag markets and the like, there has also been growing659interest in expanding derivatives market trading hours,660potentially even to 24-7 trading. If the Commission begins to661allow extended trading hours, what guardrails do you believe we662need to protect investors and prevent price dislocations,663especially in lower volume markets like agriculture futures?664    Mr. Selig. As I mentioned in my opening statement, there665really is this confluence of new technologies and changes in666our markets that we need to be vigilant about. I hope to work667with all constituents on these issues and figure out what is668appropriate for each market. It is not necessarily one size669fits all, and so, you know, what works for, for example, crypto670may not work for pork bellies. We really need to look at this671on a product-by-product, market-by-market basis, and I look672forward to those discussions both at the Commission, as well as673with this Committee, if confirmed.674    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. I just continue to675believe if you are given a mandate with--I am out of time676here--with rulemaking and the like, that you most likely are677going to need more resources. I just do not know how you keep678doing what you are doing now, 20 percent down on staff right679now, and then a new mandate that this will all work. No matter680how, you know, good your background is or other Commissioners681that might come before us or when we get the full slate, I682think that is going to continue to be an issue, and I hope that683the White House will respect that.684    Thank you very much, Mr. Selig.685    Chairman Boozman. I actually very much agree with that.686    Senator Hyde-Smith.687    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.688    I sure enjoyed our meeting earlier. I appreciate your689willingness to serve, as I said before, and all the issues that690we talked about is very important to Mississippi, so I am sure691we will have a lot to work on together.692    As products and market participants emerge, the agency must693adapt to rising demands and increasing pressure on its limited694resources. The Commission deserves recognition for how695effectively it has managed these emerging duties so far.696However, the Congress now weighing market structure legislation697that may expand the CFTC's jurisdiction, the challenges ahead698are likely to become even more significant.699    My question is, how do you plan to ensure the CFTC remains700focused on its core mission of protecting hedgers and701supporting transparent, well-functioning futures markets,702especially for our farmers and ranchers, while also703establishing a new regulatory framework and taking an increased704responsibility for a rapidly evolving digital asset market?705What makes the CFTC well suited to take on this responsibility?706    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. I, too, very much enjoyed707our conversation this morning. You know, if the CFTC is not708doing its job at making sure that our markets are working for709our agricultural firms, our farmers, our ranchers, our digital710economy now as well, it is simply not working. We need to make711sure that these are well-functioning markets. It is my712responsibility, if confirmed as Chairman, to get that job done.713I believe that we need to be vigilant in our surveillance714efforts, in our examination efforts of market participants, and715make sure that we are policing fraud and manipulation in these716markets. It is the CFTC's critical responsibility for717overseeing that these markets are well-functioning and718efficient, and I take that very seriously and intend to do that719job.720    As I mentioned in my opening statement, I think some of the721just massive overregulation of participants, and as we722discussed this morning, particularly the FCM community, where723many of America's farmers and ranchers are reliant on these724entities to access the derivatives markets. If it is too725expensive for overregulating them and they do not have access,726they are not going to be able to hedge their risks, and that is727very concerning. That can result in a lot of volatility in the728markets, and that can affect everyday consumers. I am committed729to making sure that these markets are well functioning and that730appropriate risk management tools are available to our Nation's731farmers, ranchers, and everybody else.732    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no733further questions.734    Chairman Boozman. Senator Smith.735    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair.736    Welcome to the Committee, Mr. Selig. Welcome to your family737as well.738    I want to just start by associating myself with the739questions that Senator Hyde-Smith and Senator Klobuchar asked740about the big potential change in the mission of the CFTC with741regard to digital commodities and what that would mean for the742CFTC if it were to take on that additional challenge. You have743described at a high level, but could I just press you a bit744more on this? What do you think it would take? What would be745the first two or three things that you would do? How would you746approach this with a little bit more detail as the CFTC takes747on this, you know, significant new focus potentially, depending748on what happens in Congress?749    Mr. Selig. Thank you for that question, Senator. I think it750is vitally important, as I mentioned, that we have certainty,751clarity, and consumer protection in these markets. They are752being used by everyday Americans, and having real guardrails753around what these markets look like is critical. I really do754applaud the efforts of this Committee, as well as others within755the Congress, for putting together comprehensive, bipartisan756market structure legislation, and I think that is the first757step.758    Once we get market structure legislation in place, I think759it is vitally important that we implement with haste because760these markets are going to keep developing, and we have to keep761in pace with the rapid speed of innovation.762    There are a lot of things that we can do with our existing763authority, and I would very much take on the mission of making764sure that our investors are protected in these markets. The765CFTC has authority to police fraud and manipulation in the766crypto spot markets. It has authority to regulate the futures767markets, and also when there is leverage and financing involved768in these transactions.769    Senator Smith. I am going to move on to my next question,770but I think actually what I am asking is more of a management771question. I understand that you can describe sort of what the772organization is supposed to be doing, but the question of how773you manage this kind of a transition is, I think, what I am774trying to get at, and perhaps other Members of the Committee775are trying to get at.776    I would like to move to another question. In 2018, the777Supreme Court gave states the power to decide whether to778legalize sports betting or not. In my home State of Minnesota,779we have not done that. We have not legalized sports betting. Of780course, Minnesotans can bet on sports online anytime they want781to through the so-called prediction market platforms.782    As I am sure you also know, through the Indian Gaming783Regulatory Act, tribes have the authority to regulate gaming784within their reservations, including sports betting.785    This is my question. It seems to me that there is a bit of786a conflict here because we have got these prediction market787platforms which are offering sports wagers on tribal land with788no tribal oversight. Now sports betting firms will argue that789state and tribal laws do not apply because they are offering790these event contracts, but it seems to me that this could be a791semantics difference without an actual practical difference.792Certainly, people in Minnesota do not know whether they are793doing a sports wager or an event contract wager.794    Here is my question. Putting aside this distinction between795a sports event contract and a sports wager, current CFTC796regulations clearly prohibit event contracts related to gaming797from being offered. If confirmed, can you commit to enforcing798that prohibition? Tell us a bit about how you see this issue.799    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As someone who spent many800years practicing law at law firms, as well as studying the law801in law school, these are complex issues as to interpretation of802what it means to constitute gaming. Of course, I have the803utmost respect for our judges that are working on these issues804in the court system, and I intend to always adhere to the law805and follow what judicial decisions tell me to follow.806    I also believe that these types of issues are ones that we807can work through together. Some of them are congressional808issues as to whether we change statutes in certain areas. Of809course, I was not at the CFTC at the time that this portion of810the Dodd-Frank Act was drafted. I was not working in this811Committee or on the Hill at the time, and so these are just812very challenging interpretive questions that I will look to the813courts on.814    Senator Smith. Well, it seems to me that the CFTC's815prohibition on gaming is pretty unambiguous, and also Congress816has made this clear that when it gave the CFTC authority to817prohibit certain gaming contracts, that it intended to prevent818gambling through these futures contracts. It seems to me that819this is a semantics difference, and we should be able to count820on the CFTC to enforce the law.821    Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.822    Chairman Boozman. Thank you.823    Senator Tuberville.824    Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.825    Mr. Selig, congratulations on your nomination.826    A common complaint that I hear from participants in the827markets is that CFTC has been failing to do the basic blocking828and tackling of its core responsibilities. Obtaining a license829from the CFTC has become significantly more costly and time-830consuming. How do you plan to restore the CFTC's reputation831along these lines?832    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. I really enjoyed our time in833your office yesterday, talking through these and other issues.834    You raise a very important issue at the CFTC. You know,835spending many years in private practice working with clients836that want their applications processed, that want to get837answers on their very important questions, it is vitally838important that the CFTC gives the attention that these market839participants deserve to the market participants.840    As I mentioned in my opening statement, the staff841regulation by enforcement and the rule by unwritten law through842interpretive guidance that is not provided in any sort of843written form, what we call lore in many respects and through844no-action letters really is unacceptable, and so we need the845staff to work together with our applicants, with our846registrants, to get their businesses going.847    If confirmed, my job is to get the agency running like a848business to really make sure that applications come in, they849are processed efficiently and quickly, so people can go on with850their business, and that is going to be a key priority of mine.851I also intend to evaluate the processes in place currently852within the Commission to ensure that they are efficient. If853there are steps that are unnecessary, we will take them out. If854there are things we need to be doing, we will add them into the855process. I want to make sure that people are not waiting six856months for a phone call from the staff.857    Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Will you commit to working858to resolve outstanding issues restricting cross-border trade859flows in over-the-counter markets?860    Mr. Selig. Senator, thank you. That is another important861issue before the Commission. I think it is critical that we862have substituted compliance in place where it makes sense. We863need to deregulate with our allies, make sure that they are864also allowing for our market participants to enter their865markets. We should do the same. I do think it is vitally866important to remove these blockages to over-the-counter867derivatives markets.868    Senator Tuberville. Yes, how would you balance enforcement869actions with providing clear, forward-looking guidance to870innovators seeking to comply?871    Mr. Selig. Senator, I think, as I mentioned earlier, we872have just massively overregulated the real-world economy. We873have pushed a lot of our innovators offshore with regulation by874enforcement, smothered them in red tape, really not allowed875them to go do the things they do best, be creative and build876great businesses. I would remove a lot of these barriers that877really are in their way from success.878    I think the most important thing, as I mentioned, is to879remove a lot of these unwritten rules of the road, really880create clear and simple guidelines that you do not need a high-881priced law firm to figure out. I would create--make sure that882our forms are really efficient and able to be, you know, easily883understood and work with, of course, stakeholders to figure out884the best path forward. I would love to work with this Committee885on these issues as well.886    Senator Tuberville. I would like to hear your thoughts on887something I hear a lot from our Bitcoin miners. Bitcoin, as888crypto, is a commodity. If we sell corn, if we sell cotton, we889pay taxes on it when we sell that commodity. When a Bitcoin is890mined from a miner, IRS is standing next door ready to get891their money from this Bitcoin. What are your thoughts on that?892    Mr. Selig. Well, Senator, I think that blockchain enables893all new modes of commerce and really great economic mechanism894design where people can participate in these networks like the895Bitcoin network, earn rewards, and really earn a living by896contributing to these networks. I think they are vitally897important infrastructure. We should have them built in the898United States. We should make sure that we are protecting our899miners and infrastructure in the United States.900    In terms of some of these areas that are really beyond the901scope of the CFTC's remit around tax and other things, I think902it is vitally important that we work together with the Treasury903and with our other agencies within the Administration to make904sure that we are providing the right incentives to these market905participants.906    Senator Tuberville. Yes, it just seems a little unfair to907me that if you are a miner, you have got to pay taxes on it908immediately and not wait till you sell it. You know, we hear909that complaint all the time. I hope it is something we look910into and encourage more mining. Thank you very much.911    Chairman Boozman. Senator Lujan.912    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.913    Mr. Selig, thank you for being here today. Thanks for914taking time to come by and visit in the office as well, sir.915    As we are working to provide the CFTC with new authorities916over digital asset spot markets with tokens like Bitcoin917trading over $50 billion per day, the new authority would be an918enormous new duty. The CFTC is a small agency compared to the919SEC. Mr. Selig, yes or no, do you believe the CFTC would need920more funding and staff to properly oversee digital asset spot921markets?922    Mr. Selig. Senator, thank you for that question. I really923enjoyed taking the time to meet with you yesterday and having924the opportunity to talk through crypto and lots of other925issues.926    I think that once I am in the seat, I will be able to take927a much better look, if confirmed, of course, at the resource928needs of the agency, and so I am very eager to get into the929seat and be able to make that determination.930    Senator Lujan. Would it surprise you that there is maybe931one or two people over there that have any expertise in this932space?933    Mr. Selig. Senator, I believe that there are really great934career staff at the agency, and I am very much looking forward935to working with them. I believe that many of the agency staff936are very well equipped, really understand our commodity937markets, some of the best staff in the government, and so I am938really excited to work with them.939    Senator Lujan. All right. I do not know why it is hard to940say we need more staff, but we need strong staff, and we need941the investment. This is a whole new space that we are building942in the United States of America. I think you would find943bipartisan support, everyone here working on the market944structure bill and all the rest. I think people want to hear945that we want to make an investment as the United States of946America in this space. I am just real surprised that it is so947hard to get that. I am guessing President Trump wants to see a948robust CFTC in this space?949    Mr. Selig. Senator, I cannot speak for the President, but950my view here is that the CFTC has a critical mission to protect951these markets, to safeguard investors, and I will see that that952is carried out. Whether we need more resources or not, once953confirmed, I will make that assessment, but I really think it954would be irresponsible for me to prejudge that issue.955    Senator Lujan. Have you looked at the current composition956of the staff at the CFTC?957    Mr. Selig. Senator, I am familiar with the composition of958the staff, but I will have to be in the seat really to959understand what roles everyone is performing, what roles are960performed by technology. Of course, we can do more with less961with the great innovations of technology today, and so I962really, once confirmed, look forward to making those963assessments.964    Senator Lujan. When confirmed and you identify the need at965the agency, will you come back to Congress and ask for the966resources if needed?967    Mr. Selig. Senator, of course, I will absolutely make that968assessment, and if needed, I will be very happy to have those969discussions.970    Senator Lujan. I will take that as a yes. I appreciate971that. Now, one of the areas I am concerned about, we spoke972about this, was the FTX debacle. The relationship between973Alameda Research FTX presented many conflicts of interest and974ultimately led to massive fraud. What are your views on the975deeply integrated structures of major digital asset companies?976Should exchanges be allowed to be vertically integrated?977    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. One of the great things that978kind of came out of FTX, as much as it was a massive disaster,979is that the CFTC's regulated DCM, the previously LedgerX and980became FTX US, was fully funded. The assets in that DCM, in the981clearinghouse, in the DCO were not lost, which is great. I982mean, it shows that regulation works, and that is why I really983commend this Committee and Congress for moving forward with984bipartisan market structure legislation. I think it is vitally985important that we protect investors and protect customer funds,986and intend to do so, if confirmed as Chairman.987    Senator Lujan. Does vertical integration create risk?988    Mr. Selig. Senator, vertically integrated structures are989one of the novelties that we are seeing in our markets today.990The CFTC's principles-based regime really allows for more991innovation in the way that businesses are structured, but, of992course, we need to comply with the same sorts of principles and993requirements. To the extent, of course, that a vertically994integrated structure raises, for example, conflicts issues,995they might be addressed differently, or there might be996additional requirements in place to protect against those997issues. The bottom line is that we should be always making sure998that the same protections are in place, that investors are just999as safe with a vertically integrated structure as without. If1000confirmed, that is something I very much look forward to1001considering and figuring out the best way forward there.1002    Senator Lujan. Is it fair to say, Mr. Selig, that under1003your watch, you will not allow an FTX to happen again?1004    Mr. Selig. Senator, as I mentioned the other day, you know,1005manipulation and fraud are only, you know, bounded by the1006ingenuity of man, and so it is very hard to always be able to1007prevent that.1008    Senator Lujan. Let me ask the question this way. Under your1009watch, is it fair to say that if you identify a loophole that1010would allow an FTX, fraud, criminals, crooks to exist, that you1011will close them?1012    Mr. Selig. Senator, the CFTC will be a cop on the beat, a1013strong cop on the beat under my leadership, and I intend to1014always adhere to the law and make sure we are enforcing the1015law.1016    Senator Lujan. Last, Mr. Chairman, my time is expired, but1017illicit finance. I asked you, Mr. Selig, if you had a security1018clearance, and you do not have one yet. You will need to get1019one, I am certain, after confirmation. I suggested that you, as1020immediately as you can, get in a SCIF and learn about all the1021bad actors that are out there doing bad things.1022    One of the things that recently happened is the President1023pardoned some guy. I do not know what the company's name is,1024Sleaze? Same thing, CZ, yes, Sleaze. It is publicly noted at1025the SEC and other places that terrorists were using this dude,1026terrorists. Are you okay with that?1027    Mr. Selig. Senator, I am not familiar with all the facts of1028the matter, but of course, I will always uphold the law and1029ensure that we are enforcing the law on these contests.1030    Senator Lujan. Well, it is public facing. I will make sure1031that I submit it into the record. We will get you the articles.1032We will get you the SEC case. You are at the SEC now, correct?1033    Mr. Selig. That is correct.1034    Senator Lujan. You probably have more access to information1035than I do over there. I really encourage you to see this1036because the President says he really does not know this guy,1037and the guy pled guilty to doing all kinds of ugly things. I do1038not think anyone here wants to see any of this stuff. I1039certainly hope that you keep your character when you are in1040this position, as I shared with you in the office, and that you1041are not asked to compromise yourself. You are a person of1042character, Michael, and that is your reputation. I just1043certainly hope you do everything you can to maintain that and1044that you do good in this space. You are knowledgeable. You are1045probably one of the most knowledgeable people going into this1046space in a regulatory role, and it is going to be critically1047important. We cannot get this wrong in the United States of1048America. We cannot allow crooks to get away with things. We1049cannot allow terrorists to get away with stuff either. I1050certainly hope that we can work together in a strong bipartisan1051way and make this happen.1052    I appreciate the work of the Chairman and my colleague here1053to my--my seatmate, I will say, Senator Booker, with what they1054have already put together here. I look forward to seeing more1055of that good work, but just stay strong in this space as well.1056    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1057    Chairman Boozman. We appreciate it, and I agree totally1058regarding funding, making sure that we have adequate funding1059for the agency.1060    Then, too, I think your other questions concerning FTX, all1061of these other things, that is why we need to work hard to get1062a good market structure bill that is good for the industry and1063allows it to grow, keeps it here, but also, most importantly,1064protects the consumer.1065    Then, too, I suggested the same thing regarding security1066clearance, so it is good.1067    Senator Hoeven.1068    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Selig, thanks for1069our visit prior to the meeting, appreciate it, a chance to1070visit with you.1071    Before we talk about the digital asset issue for a minute,1072very important that our farmers and ranchers be able to utilize1073the futures market to hedge the crops they grow and the1074livestock they raise, very important. That is your traditional1075role. I want to hear from you how you are going to make sure1076that we are making that system work as well as possible in an1077open, clear, transparent way for our farmers and ranchers out1078there that need to be able to rely on it.1079    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. I very much enjoyed the1080opportunity to meet with you this morning to discuss this and1081other issues.1082    As I mentioned earlier, it is vitally important that we1083protect our farmers and ranchers, ensure that they have the1084tools they need to manage their risk, make sure these markets1085are fair, orderly, and efficient, make sure there is not fraud1086and manipulation that interferes with the prices of commodities1087in these markets.1088    It is vitally important that we understand that many of1089these markets have been massively overregulated throughout the1090chain. We have seen FCMs introducing brokers and other1091intermediaries highly, highly regulated, such that the costs1092are being passed down to farmers, ranchers. We are seeing less1093FCMs, less introducing brokers able to take on these clients.1094You know, some of the ones with the large volume able to do it,1095they are not banks, and some of the risk management functions1096at the farmers' and ranchers' businesses, they are not willing1097to work with these firms.1098    I think it is vitally important that we take a very hard1099look at where we are regulating and making sure that it is1100absolutely essential. I am in favor of the minimum effective1101dose of regulation, no more, no less. We should not have more1102reporting than is necessary. We should not have more1103prescriptive requirements than needed. I do believe that if we1104get the right regulation in place, these businesses will1105thrive. We will see more risk management. We will see more1106farmers, ranchers, and everyday individuals and commercial end1107users using these tools, these risk management tools to manage1108their business risks, and that is going to be better for all1109Americans.1110    Senator Hoeven. Right, and for the large, sophisticated1111users and that kind of thing, you know, they always manage to1112figure out, you know, how to comply with all the different1113rules, requirements, all that kind of thing. Are you focused on1114making sure that for that family farmer or family rancher that1115they are able to access the futures market in a way that they1116understand, that is transparent, and that works for them?1117    Mr. Selig. Senator, absolutely. I think that is vitally1118important. They need to have clear and simple rules of the road1119that they understand, and they need to have access to the tools1120that they need to manage the risk.1121    Senator Hoeven. In the digital asset space, have you looked1122at both the House legislation and the proposed Senate1123legislation? Does it provide you--in your opinion, does that1124provide the statutory and regulatory--or the ability to build1125the regulatory framework in a way that will make sure that,1126again, there is transparency and that people understand what is1127going on with these digital markets, and that, as Senator Lujan1128said just a minute ago, that, you know, people are adequately1129protected?1130    Mr. Selig. Senator, thank you. One of the areas that we1131discussed earlier today is really the breadth of what is1132happening in these digital asset markets. There is a wide range1133of new types of blockchain networks, applications, and assets.1134The legislation--I think this is a great, great effort to bring1135clarity, certainty, and consumer protection to these wide-1136ranging novel markets.1137    I believe that the legislation--you know, the efforts in1138this Committee, as well as the Clarity Act and the efforts in1139the House, are just absolutely critical. They provide the1140scaffolding, the infrastructure that we need to make sure that1141we have a registration regime, that we have requirements around1142consumer protection, and also provide a lot of authority to the1143CFTC and its sister agency, the SEC, to flexibly regulate.1144There is going to be a lot of work to be done in implementing1145these statutes, so I really am excited for you all to get the1146legislation done, and I think these are both great efforts.1147    Senator Hoeven. Are you prepared to help Members of this1148Committee make sure they understand what is being done in this1149space and accomplished with this legislation, but also what1150additional safety measures may need to be in place to get the1151job done fully and well?1152    Mr. Selig. Senator, yes. I think one of the benefits of1153having spent many years in private practice working with1154digital asset firms and then working as Chief Counsel at the1155Crypto Task Force at the SEC has been that I have seen and met1156with many of these crypto businesses, understand both the good1157and the bad and what we need to do to make sure that we are1158protecting our investors.1159    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.1160    Chairman Boozman. Senator Booker.1161    Senator Booker. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I just want to put1162into the record that the witness appears to be so young that I1163do not think he can drink alcohol should he get confirmed. I am1164a guy in a job at 50 that you are still considered young in the1165Senate, but this guy is----1166    Chairman Boozman. You are saying what I was thinking.1167    Senator Booker [continuing]. putting me to shame. Yes.1168    [Laughter.]1169    Senator Booker. Yes. I----1170    Senator Hoeven. Are you trying to say you are only 50?1171    Senator Booker. You are mean, sir. You are mean.1172    [Laughter.]1173    Senator Booker. Let his cruelty be noted for the record.1174    A lot of the staffers, sir, were whispering back here1175wondering how old----1176    Senator Hoeven. I meant you look a lot younger.1177    Senator Booker. You do do that, sir. You do do that.1178    A lot of my questions have been covered. I am really happy1179to see you here, and I am really encouraged by people on both1180sides of the aisle that seem to have a lot of high hopes for1181your leadership.1182    I want to jump right in. I am just grateful for the1183Chairmen and the Ranking Members, they are the two of their1184partnerships with me over the last few weeks. I am trying to1185put together a discussion draft on spot digital commodity1186market regulations has been really vital and I think really1187important bipartisan work. Senator Klobuchar and Senator1188Boozman have been phenomenal. I am just grateful for your work1189over the last few months with the Administration working on a1190policy related to digital assets, working with this Committee,1191as well as Senate banking.1192    Even with rules of the road, you and I both know it is1193critical that we have regulators that are capable, competent,1194and who will both oversee the market and enforce the rules,1195which we have already talked about at quite some extent. You1196have spent the last seven months at the SEC, which is a much1197larger regulator in terms of staffing scope and scale. You are1198aware of this. The SEC has more than 5,000 full-time employees1199versus the 600 at the CFTC, with about 1,500 FTEs in the SEC's1200enforcement arm compared to just 161 here.1201    You have heard it from multiple Senators on both sides of1202the aisle, with a couple hallelujah amens from the Chairman,1203that there is a real problem right now with capacity in the1204agency that you are up to lead. I am hoping that is something1205you have heard, and I am hoping, as perhaps some of my1206colleagues want, that you are more bold in asking, as we1207hopefully get you more responsibility, that you start fighting1208and standing up for more of the resources necessary to do1209something that is really vital, especially when it comes to1210issues of security and safety that Senator Lujan so eloquently1211spoke to.1212    I remain deeply concerned also by a lot of issues of1213corruption we are witnessing. I have a real problem that a1214President of the United States could issue a coin. That, to me,1215just opens up the door to a whole bunch of ethics problems. We1216are seeing that right now with this White House. It is making1217billions of dollars with foreign nationals investing in that1218coin. I am really concerned about how agencies have lost a lot1219of their independence and are being weaponized to go after1220political enemies, that there is an undermining of regulators1221and other government agencies that serve taxpayers. There is1222politically motivated firings and more.1223    I am not even going to ask this as a question. I am just1224going to say, should you be confirmed, I hope you will1225prioritize this idea that Congress has had over generations now1226that agencies such as yours should be independent agencies1227above politics, really fighting for the best interests of1228Americans, especially at an era where I think corruption is on1229the rise in American Government, and a lot of people are1230worried about trust. I just want to say that, for the record,1231and I hope you can be that kind of leader that maintains that1232kind of independence.1233    I want to get into some of the corruption we are seeing in1234American sports right now. It would be hard to have missed that1235in this past month, the FBI indicted several NBA and MLB1236players that were trying to manipulate outcomes for profit. I1237am a fan. As a college football player myself, the older I get,1238the better I was, I must say, so I could have been in the pros,1239too. The bad actors are caught because regulated sports books1240caught the suspicious activity.1241    Given these recent events, it is all more concerning that1242sports event contracts are being offered without the same1243monitoring. All designated contract markets must comply1244initially and on an ongoing basis with 23 CFTC core principles,1245specifically core principle number three that requires1246contracts must not be readily susceptible to manipulation.1247    You are going to be right there should you be confirmed,1248and I want to make sure that you have strong integrity in your1249monitoring systems in place to ensure athletes, coaches, league1250employees and referees or any close family or friends or such1251individuals are not manipulating America's pastime, America's1252greatest sport, I would say football and more, and that is1253something I wanted you to hear from me since we did not have a1254chance to meet privately.1255    The last thing I want to go over is the greatest state in1256America is--clearly, you agree with me, you could just nod your1257head--is New Jersey. It is historic. Our great Garden State is1258the East Coast home of gaming in the U.S. industry, employs1259approximately 51,800 people, garnering close to $2 billion in1260revenue. America should be thanking New Jersey more for all of1261our great contributions to this public, but one of them is we1262really did the work to legalize sports betting across the1263United States. We were the ones fighting in court across this1264last decade to get that legalization. New Jersey also fought1265for years to bring sports betting into the legal fold, then to1266be sued by those platforms and waste taxpayer dollars fighting1267for the right to police this activity is frustrating for our1268state officials and the 34 attorneys generals.1269    Again, it is very important to me, and I will end with1270this, that the sports contracts have enforcement mechanisms,1271with over half of the country's chief law enforcement officers1272saying these contracts break state laws that we are seeing. I1273am just frustrated that the CFTC has not acted. I will let that1274be my real question to you after my statements.1275    Mr. Selig. Senator, thank you. I do look forward to getting1276the opportunity to meet. I know we were unable to connect1277yesterday. New Jersey, of course, is a great state. My wife,1278sitting behind me, is from the state.1279    Senator Booker. You married up, obviously, if you married a1280Jersey girl, sir.1281    Mr. Selig. That is right. As are actually--my parents,1282actually, are from the area as well.1283    I think it is vitally important that the CFTC look to the1284courts on a lot of these issues. They are, of course, being1285litigated across the country. Really, to the extent that any of1286these event contracts constitute gaming, of course, you know,1287that is a question for the courts. If they are trading in our1288markets, if the products are self-certified and the CFTC is1289allowing them to trade in the markets, of course, it is vital1290that the CFTC ensure that those contracts are not being1291manipulated, that they are not readily susceptible to1292manipulation. It is core principle. Of course, if confirmed,1293that would be something that I would enforce.1294    Senator Booker. Well, you know, judges might hand down a1295decision in agreement with Jersey and 34 state attorneys1296general, and I am hoping that you will then follow those courts1297order companies listing event contracts related to sports1298events to stop operating in states in which the judges find1299them to be contravening state gambling law. I am hoping we can1300have a chance that you and I can discuss it. This is, you can1301see, is a Committee that has a lot of bipartisan agreement, and1302this is a space I hope you and I can have a dialog on. It is1303such an important industry to my state. Thank you very much,1304sir.1305    Chairman Boozman. Thank you.1306    Senator Slotkin.1307    Senator Slotkin. Thank you, Chairman.1308    Thank you for our meeting yesterday. Over here. I am at the1309bottom of the dais. Thank you for our meeting yesterday. I1310appreciated your time. The issues I asked you about in my1311office are going to be the same issues I ask you here.1312    You have a background representing and working with the1313crypto industry, a trillion-dollar industry. My issue is just1314oversight and making sure that I can turn back to Michiganders1315and say, if you are going to make the decision to invest in1316crypto, you are safe. You are not going to be scammed. You are1317not going to be defrauded out of that money.1318    The CFTC, since the 1930s, was set up as a five-1319Commissioner body, you know, two Democrats, two Republicans,1320and then whoever is in power gets the chairmanship. We are all1321working on a market structure bill. I voted on a version of1322that bill in the House, but that is when we had five1323Commissioners who created this push and pull, this greater1324sense of oversight. If confirmed, you will be the only one on1325this body.1326    Can you help me understand--I know you said yesterday and1327today you want to hear from different views. That is good.1328Debate team, heard the whole thing. Do you support two1329Democrats, two Republicans being with you on this Commission?1330    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As you know, and as I1331mentioned yesterday, of course, I do very much appreciate1332having different viewpoints, hearing from----1333    Senator Slotkin. I got that.1334    Mr. Selig [continuing]. everyone at the table, of course.1335As I mentioned as well yesterday and earlier today, it is the1336President's decision to nominate candidates to be----1337    Senator Slotkin. What would your advice to him be? I mean,1338you are going to be the guy hanging out there by yourself,1339right? This Administration has kind of systematically1340dismantled independent commissions, the FTC, the Consumer1341Product Safety Commission, the National Labor Relations Board.1342They have been dismantled. Here we have a new industry, crypto,1343you know, very, very kind of up and coming. I am supportive of1344figuring out good regulation. Would your advice to him be like,1345hey, man, give me some balance here so I have the ability to1346say this is an independent body? What is your advice to the1347President on this issue?1348    Mr. Selig. Well, Senator, I would certainly respect the1349President's decision on these issues. My role and my job, if1350confirmed as Chairman, is to fulfill the agency's mission, and1351I believe that mission is best fulfilled when we have a1352diversity of viewpoints coming from wherever we can find those1353viewpoints.1354    Senator Slotkin. I get that and I--good. I am just saying1355for those of us who want to get to yes on a market structure1356bill, who want to be proactive, having some sense that there is1357some oversight, that it is not just going to be you vulnerable1358to the pressure of the President as the only one there, is1359something that I think many of us will be watching, certainly1360me.1361    On sports events contracts, Senator Booker can talk all1362about New Jersey he wants. We are the number two. Michigan is1363the number two online casino and sports betting state, $741364million annually. The tribes and our licensed sports prediction1365markets are the ones who control that. My understanding is that1366the CFTC regulations are clear on this issue, that sports1367contracts should not be allowed because they are equivalent to1368betting, right, to gambling. In your opinion, should sports1369event contracts be listed through the CFTC?1370    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As I mentioned, this is a1371really complicated issue. It is an interpretive question that1372is working its way through the courts, and so I will respect1373the decisions of those courts. I also am very interested to1374work with this Committee to the extent that there are views1375that we need to change anything in the statute. This is1376ultimately a question for the courts. As a Chairman of an1377agency, I will always look to the views of the courts and to1378Congress. As the Supreme Court has said in the Loper Bright1379decision, you know, the deference of the agency is limited. We1380have to look to the courts.1381    Senator Slotkin. Okay. I appreciate that. You had said1382yesterday you had not met with the tribes. I encourage you to1383meet with the people who are in this business and just have--1384again, if you appreciate alternative views, it should not be1385hard to meet with these folks.1386    President Trump announced that he is launching his own1387Truth Predict that would basically support event contracts and1388that they be traded. If the President asks you for a carveout1389or an exception so that Truth Predict can be listed, how will1390you respond?1391    Mr. Selig. Senator, I always uphold the law and stick to1392the law. I mean, to the extent that the President were to, in1393compliance with this ethics rule, submit an application, he1394would go through the same process as everyone else.1395    Senator Slotkin. That is true. I would hope that you would1396be very careful about exceptions and the perception of graft1397because he has invented this thing, and you would be the only1398guy in the hotseat that he would have to get an exemption from,1399so we will hold you to that.1400    Thank you, Chairman, and I yield back.1401    Chairman Boozman. Senator Schiff.1402    Senator Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1403    In California and across the country, prediction market1404platforms like Kalshi have been offering so-called event1405futures contracts on sporting events. I know you have been1406asked a great deal about this. I just want to drill down1407further. Right now, I can go on Kalshi and predict who will win1408tomorrow night's Thursday night football game between the Bills1409and the Texans. If I spend $1 predicting who the next coach1410will be of the New York Giants, I can make $6, sounds a lot1411like gambling to me. These prediction markets are trying, I1412think, to have it both ways, simultaneously marketing1413themselves as financial products and marketing themselves as1414sports betting. There is no economic utility to these1415contracts. There is no price discovery being facilitated. They1416are offering gaming products with no regulation, and I think1417that is in violation of state law and tribal sovereignty.1418    The Commodity Exchange Act prohibits any event contracts1419from being listed, traded, or cleared if, first, the contract1420involves one of five enumerated activities, one of them being1421gaming; and second, the contract is deemed contrary to the1422public interest. The regulations implementing the CEA deem all1423five of these enumerated activities as contrary to the public1424interest. That is terrorism, assassination, war gaming, or1425unlawful activity under federal and state law.1426    We have seen a proliferation of sports betting contracts,1427sports event contracts being offered this year, even though the1428vast majority of states say that offering these contracts1429violates state and tribal laws. Meanwhile, the CFTC has failed1430to issue any guidance on whether sport event contracts violate1431existing regulations.1432    I understand that you will defer to the courts. I would1433hope that you would defer to the courts and abide by court1434decisions. What is your view on whether these are gaming in1435violation or these are some kind of different contractual1436obligation that has some kind of economic merit, intrinsic1437economic merit?1438    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As you know, as a good1439lawyer, the answer is always it depends, and these--that is why1440these are questions for the courts. They are really complicated1441issues of interpretation.1442    Senator Schiff. Well, let me make a simple one. Let's talk1443about the Bills game tomorrow night. I go on my phone, on one1444of these platforms, and I place a bet on who wins the game.1445Gaming? Sports gaming?1446    Mr. Selig. Senator, it would be irresponsible for me to1447prejudge that issue. I will look to the courts----1448    Senator Schiff. Well, let me ask it this way. If I were to1449go into a casino and make a bet or a facility that legally1450offers sports gaming and bet on the Bills game, should it1451matter whether I am doing it in a licensed facility? Is it a1452different animal if I do it on my phone through an app? Does it1453change the nature of a gaming bet, what technology I use to1454make it happen?1455    Mr. Selig. Senator, I again would look to the courts on1456these questions of facts and interpretation of the law. It is a1457complex issue. I will follow what the courts say. To the extent1458there need to be changes because the law was drafted in a way1459that is hard to comprehend, I am here to help with that effort.1460    Senator Schiff. Well, I mean, let me just ask--maybe even1461break it down more simply. If you and I bet on who wins the1462Bills game tomorrow, would you consider that gambling?1463    Mr. Selig. Senator, on this issue, I would look to the1464courts, so I would look to what the courts say about that1465issue. I think it is still working its way through, so once we1466have an outcome that we can rely on and that we can interpret1467within the agency, I would look to that.1468    Senator Schiff. Well, if betting on who wins or loses a1469football game is not sports gaming, what do you think sports1470gaming is? Can you give me an example that, okay, this is1471clearly gambling, sports gambling? There may be some gray areas1472and maybe some complex questions, as you say, but, okay, this1473is certainly sports betting. What would you say?1474    Mr. Selig. Many lengthy legal opinions have been written on1475one word in a statute, and I would really want the benefit of1476understanding what the judges think about the issue. This could1477be one that works its way all the way up to the top, and so I1478will look to the courts on the issue.1479    Senator Schiff. Should I take it from your answer that you1480are a tabula rasa on this? You are not coming into this1481position with any preset ideas as to whether a future events1482contract that predicts who wins a football game, you are not1483coming into this with any preconceived idea whether that is1484gaming or not?1485    Mr. Selig. I think it would be irresponsible for me to1486prejudge that issue, and so I will come into the issue at the1487Commission, if confirmed, with a blank slate and look to the1488courts.1489    Senator Schiff. I would join with Senator Slotkin in urging1490you to meet with those deeply impacted by this issue, which1491includes the tribes as well.1492    Thank you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.1493    Chairman Boozman. Senator Warnock.1494    Senator Warnock. Thank you, Chair Boozman.1495    Congratulations, Mr. Selig, on your nomination. Welcome to1496you and your family.1497    I have to say that I think you enter this nomination1498process under a great deal of pressure. Congress has created a1499five-person bipartisan Commission to run the agency of those1500five seats. There is currently just one Republican Commissioner1501left who, by default, is the acting Chair running the agency.1502You are the President's second nominee, following opposition1503from some of the President's richest friends to the previous1504nominee.1505    I want to follow up a little bit on my colleague Senator1506Slotkin's question and ask you, yes or no. Do you do you1507believe having an incomplete CFTC, including zero minority1508Commissioners, hampers the effectiveness of the CFTC?1509    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As I mentioned earlier, I do1510believe it is important to have a diversity of viewpoints. The1511CFTC has a vital mission that I intend to, if confirmed----1512    Senator Warnock. Is that a yes?1513    Mr. Selig. Senator, the CFTC is able to function with a1514single Chairman, as it has been with an acting Chairman. I do1515believe, as I mentioned, that it is very important to have a1516diversity of viewpoints.1517    Senator Warnock. You think that this is a good situation1518that we have a CFTC with one Chairman, even as we negotiate1519crypto market structure legislation, which could grant the CFTC1520new authorities to oversee a $4 trillion market?1521    Mr. Selig. Senator, I believe that it is important that the1522CFTC carry out its mission. The way that it is designed, of1523course, is that it can function with one Chairman, if1524necessary, so that it can carry out its mission. I would take1525that job very seriously, if confirmed.1526    Senator Warnock. Here is why this is so important. We are1527currently negotiating this legislation. Many of us who are1528engaged in these negotiations have called for a provision that1529Commissioners from both parties be appointed for the CFTC to1530implement any crypto legislation through new rules or1531regulations. When I speak to leaders in the crypto industry,1532they tell me that it is critical to them that crypto laws and1533regulations have bipartisan support. This is what we are1534hearing from the industry.1535    Do you agree that having bipartisan support behind new1536cryptocurrency regulations would help ensure stability and1537durability of these policies beyond this Administration and be1538better for both the industry and the investors long term, so1539that you are not suffering from whiplash, depending on whether1540it is a Democratic Administration or Republican Administration?1541Is that a fair assessment?1542    Mr. Selig. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, I really1543commend the efforts of this Committee to develop bipartisan1544crypto market structure legislation. I think both voices in the1545room are critical to getting this right, and, if confirmed as1546Chairman and assuming this legislation were to pass and be1547signed by the President, the notice and comment rulemaking1548process is a great way to get a diversity of viewpoints through1549comments.1550    Senator Warnock. We are not getting any minority input from1551the agency on how it would implement such a complex piece of1552legislation, and that is making this whole process harder and1553harder.1554    I am going to turn to another subject matter. Basic1555consumer and investor protections are the pillars of a sound1556financial system. Regulatory clarity is needed for consumers1557who trade in digital commodities. Last week, Chair Boozman and1558Senator Booker released a bipartisan discussion draft to1559regulate digital assets. This discussion draft is an important1560starting point, but key sections remain under negotiation,1561including what new consumer protections are necessary to1562protect consumers from bad actors. Investor protection is1563critical, and the crypto markets are heavily focused on retail1564investors. What new authorities does the CFTC need from1565Congress to ensure consumers are treated fairly in your view?1566    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. As I mentioned earlier, the1567CFTC has existing authority to police fraud and manipulation in1568these markets, but bipartisan legislation really can take that1569to a further level by ensuring that we have market regulation1570for these markets, so things like registration, examinations of1571these platforms, making sure that consumer funds are safe and1572secure, segregation of funds, things of this nature that we1573have and expect in our markets today.1574    Of course, coming from the SEC, currently working well with1575the SEC on the disclosure requirements to the extent that there1576are securities that are being offered in connection with a1577digital asset, making sure there is disclosure there, all these1578things can work really well together to making sure that we1579have a robust and resilient regime around crypto.1580    Senator Warnock. One last question. The CFTC is the only1581financial regulator that is funded entirely by appropriations.1582In the Boozman-Booker discussion draft, they authorize an1583additional $150 million to the CFTC to hire new staff, improve1584their technology, and prepare the agency to implement a massive1585new regulatory structure. Do you support the authorization of1586$150 million to the CFTC to implement a crypto regime as1587designated by the Boozman-Booker discussion draft?1588    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. If confirmed, I really want1589to get in the seat and understand the needs of the agency, so1590it would be premature for me to take a view on the exact amount1591and what I support but----1592    Senator Warnock. Do you support any new funding for the1593CFTC?1594    Mr. Selig. It would be premature for me to take a view on1595new funding. I really want to understand the needs of the1596agency. I think, you know, anyone coming into a seat with, you1597know, many staff, many systems in place, I need to understand1598the processes and who is there, and then I can make a decision1599on that.1600    Senator Warnock. Well, I think it is an important question,1601and, you know, we have got to have adequate resources in order1602to protect consumers. I look forward to continued discussion on1603this issue. Thank you.1604    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Warnock.1605    In regard to that, I think the Committee as a whole is with1606you 100 percent regarding having adequate funding. We have been1607talking to the Administration about that, how important it is,1608and I will commit to you that, as we go down that path, we will1609have a hearing if we need to, and, you know, we are going to1610make sure that we do have adequate funding.1611    The other thing, too, was also recognizing the importance1612of having Democrats and Republicans on the Commission. Again,1613talking to the Administration, working with Senator Klobuchar,1614Senator Booker, the next step is getting Senator Schumer to1615actually nominate somebody. We want to go through the process1616where, you know, it is not Republicans picking who you want,1617but you yourselves, you know, Senator Schumer will nominate1618somebody, so we are also working with him to get the process--1619--1620    Senator Warnock. I am heartened by your commitment to a1621bipartisan Commission.1622    Chairman Boozman. Yes.1623    Senator Warnock. Thank you so much.1624    Chairman Boozman. Yes. If the roles were reversed, you1625know, I would be saying the same thing. Thank you.1626    Senator Warnock. Thank you.1627    Chairman Boozman. Senator Klobuchar, have you got any1628other----1629    Senator Klobuchar. Yes. I just want to follow up on just a1630few things. Should you be confirmed, Mr. Selig, will you commit1631to working with Congress to ensure that the whistleblower1632program is funded in a consistent and predictable manner?1633    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I will commit to that.1634I think the whistleblower program is a very important program.1635It helps align incentives when people are afraid to come1636forward because of retaliation risk, and so I do think it is a1637very important program.1638    Senator Klobuchar. Having worked at the SEC, would you1639commit to--or I guess my better question would--how would you1640approach coordinating with the SEC and Treasury on overlapping1641issues to avoid regulatory gaps? I mean, obviously, this has1642been a boiling up issue in the Capitol for quite a while, but1643talk about your view on it.1644    Mr. Selig. Thank you, Senator. This is a really important1645issue. I think it is critical that the SEC and the CFTC, and1646other regulators as well all work well together. There are so1647many products and services, and platforms that have fallen1648through the cracks because it is just too hard to comply when1649you are dealing with multiple regulators, and they do not work1650well together. We have discussed today many of these1651interpretive questions. Many of that is for the courts, but1652sometimes the agencies have to make decisions together as to1653what sits where, and I am committed to working well with my1654current boss, Chairman Atkins at the SEC, as well as others1655within the Administration to make sure that we get things right1656for Americans.1657    Senator Klobuchar. Given that the CFTC was structured by1658Congress as an independent commission, does it have, in your1659view, an independent obligation to determine the legality and1660the appropriateness of its actions and the regulations that it1661adopts?1662    Mr. Selig. Senator, I think that is an important question.1663You know, to the extent that the CFTC has deference authority1664on certain issues where it has been granted that from Congress,1665then the CFTC will go ahead under my leadership and interpret1666where it is expressly told to do so. Of course, we will always1667follow the law, and where it does not have deference authority,1668of course, we look to the courts.1669    Senator Klobuchar. I mentioned event contracts in my1670opening, and I know that some of my other colleagues have asked1671about this. Once again, we are back to the resource issue, but1672do you think the CFTC has the resources to oversee this vast1673new market that presents different characteristics from the1674traditional derivative markets?1675    Mr. Selig. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, this is a1676critical aspect of the jurisdiction of the agency to the extent1677it is added through the legislation, and the CFTC needs to take1678that seriously. It has an important mission of making sure that1679there is investor protection and that these markets are sound1680and safe, so I take that mission very seriously. If confirmed,1681we will take a very close look at our resources and make sure1682that we have everything we need to fulfill our mission.1683    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you very much.1684    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar, very much.1685    Again, thank you, Mr. Selig, for appearing before the1686Committee. To our Committee Members, thank you for your1687participation. As always, we appreciate the staffs on both1688sides working so hard to make these things happen. The record1689closes at 6 p.m. tonight.1690    Today's hearing is now adjourned.1691    [Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]16921693=======================================================================16941695                            A P P E N D I X16961697                           November 19, 202516981699=======================================================================17001701[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]17021703=======================================================================17041705                         QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS17061707                           November 19, 202517081709=======================================================================17101711[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]17121713                                [all]