“The Legal Basis for Action Against Venezuelan Drug Traffickers”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                  THE LEGAL BASIS FOR ACTION AGAINST5                     VENEZUELAN DRUG TRAFFICKERS6=======================================================================78                                HEARING910                               BEFORE THE1112                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT1314                                 OF THE1516                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY1718                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             SECOND SESSION2324                               __________2526                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18, 20262728                               __________2930                           Serial No. 119-613132                               __________3334         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary3536[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3738               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov3940                               __________4142                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4363-165                   WASHINGTON : 202644=======================================================================4546                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY4748                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair4950DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking51ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member52TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York53THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California54THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee55CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,56SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia57BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California58LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California59JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington60TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California61BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania62HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          JOE NEGUSE, Colorado63LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               LUCY McBATH, Georgia64WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina65RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          BECCA BALINT, Vermont66GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois67BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California68MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida69ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York70DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas71BRANDON GILL, Texas72MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington73Vacancy7475                                 ------7677                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT7879                 JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey, Chair8081BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas, Ranking82ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri           Member83DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida84BRANDON GILL, Texas                  HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,85                                         Georgia8687               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director88                ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director8990                            C O N T E N T S9192                              ----------9394                       Wednesday, March 18, 202695                           OPENING STATEMENTS9697                                                                   Page9899The Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of the Subcommittee on100  Oversight from the State of New Jersey.........................     1101The Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking Member of the102  Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas..............     3103The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on104  the Judiciary from the State of Maryland.......................     5105106                               WITNESSES107108Mr. Josh Blackman, Professor, South Texas College of Law109  Oral Testimony.................................................     9110  Prepared Testimony.............................................    12111Franklin Camargo, Prager University Foundation112  Oral Testimony.................................................    17113  Prepared Testimony.............................................    19114Gina D'Andrea, General Counsel, America First Policy Institute115  Oral Testimony.................................................    22116  Prepared Testimony.............................................    25117Thomas W. Padden, Former Director, Organized Crime Drug118  Enforcement Task Force119  Oral Testimony.................................................    29120  Prepared Testimony.............................................    31121122          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING123124All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the125  Judiciary are listed below.....................................    51126127Materials submitted by the Honorable Derek Schmidt, a Member of128  the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Kansas, for the129  record130    A copy of the indictment Nicolas Maduro Moros v. United131        States of America, United States District Court, Southern132        District, New York133    A press release entitled, ``Rubio: This Is Our Hemisphere--134        and President Trump Will Not Allow Our Security to be135        Threatened,'' Jan. 4, 2026, The White House136    An article entitled, ``Gregg Jarrett: No, Trump's order to137        snatch Maduro was not illegal or unconstitutional,'' Jan.138        4, 2026, Fox News139    An article entitled, ``How cocaine and corruption led to the140        indictment of Maduro,'' Jan. 4, 2026, AP News141    An article entitled, ``Yes, Trump's Venezuela Moves Are142        Legal,'' Jan. 6, 2026, City Journal143Materials submitted by the Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member144  of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Maryland145    An article entitled, ``Libyan bombing `unconstitutional,'146        Republicans warn Obama,'' Mar. 22, 2011, The Guardian147    An article entitled, ``Trump urges justice department to148        prosecute political opponents,'' Sept. 21, 2025, BBC149    An article entitled, ``The Ex-President Whom Trump Plans to150        Pardon Flooded America With Cocaine,'' Nov. 30, 2025, The151        New York Times152    An article entitled, ``Maduro Is Gone, but Repression in153        Venezuela Has Intensified,'' Jan. 7, 2026, The New York154        Times155Materials submitted by the Honorable Brandon Gill, a Member of156  the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas, for the157  record158    An article entitled, ``The Trump Administration's Actions in159        Venezuela Are Constitutional,'' Jan. 4, 2026, National160        Review161    An article entitled, ``The Long History of Presidential162        Discretion,'' Sept. 18, 2025, American Enterprise163        Institute (AEI)164    An article entitled, ``Maria Corina Machado says Maduro165        capture will go down in history as the day `justice166        defeated tyranny,' '' Jan. 6, 2026, CBS News167    An article entitled, ``Rubio vows to eliminate Hezbollah,168        Iran operations from Venezuela after Maduro capture,''169        Jan. 4, 2026, Fox News170    An Executive Order entitled, ``Designating Cartels and Other171        Organizations as Foreign Terrorist Organizations and172        Specially Designated Global Terrorists,'' Jan. 20, 2025,173        President Trump, The White House174    A press release entitled, ``Designating Cartels and Other175        Organizations as Foreign Terrorist Organizations and176        Specially Designated Global Terrorists,'' Jan. 20, 2025,177        The White House178    A fact sheet entitled, ``Designation of International179        Cartels,'' Feb. 20, 2025, U.S. Department of State180    A press release entitled, ``Treasury Sanctions Venezuelan181        Cartel Headed by Maduro,'' Jul. 25, 2025, U.S. Department182        of the Treasury183    An article entitled, ``Admiral saw alleged drug boat strike184        survivors as legitimate targets, defense official says,''185        Dec. 4, 2025, NBC News186Materials submitted by the Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking187  Member of the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of188  Texas, for the record189    An article entitled, ``Trump's War on Iran Violates190        International Law & U.S. Constitution: War Crimes191        Prosecutor Reed Brody,'' Mar. 2, 2026, Democracy Now!192    An article entitled, ``Maduro is gone, bus his regime is193        intact. What happened behind the scenes?'' Jan. 8, 2026,194        The Guardian195    An article entitled, ``Number of U.S. troops wounded in Iran196        war surpasses 200 across 7 countries,'' Mar. 16, 2026,197        The Washington Post198    An article entitled, ``Appropriators backed a crime-fighting199        unit. DOJ closed it anyway,'' Dec. 18, 2025, Roll Call200201     THE LEGAL BASIS FOR ACTION AGAINST VENEZUELAN DRUG TRAFFICKERS202203                              ----------204205                       Wednesday, March 18, 2026206207                        House of Representatives208209                       Subcommittee on Oversight210211                       Committee on the Judiciary212213                             Washington, DC214215    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:10 p.m., in216Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Jefferson217Van Drew [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.218    Present: Representatives Van Drew, Onder, Schmidt, Gill,219Crockett, Raskin, and Johnson.220    Mr. Van Drew. The Subcommittee will now come to order.221Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess222at any time.223    We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the legal basis224for action against Venezuelan drug traffickers.225    I now recognize the gentleman from Kansas, who will lead us226in the pledge, and then we will have a moment of silence for227all our troops, including the airmen that were killed in Iraq.228    Please rise.229    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States230of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one231Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for232all.233    Mr. Van Drew. Please remain standing for a moment of234silence.235    [Moment of silence.]236    Mr. Van Drew. I will now recognize myself for an opening237statement.238    I want to welcome everyone to the hearing of the239Subcommittee on Oversight. Today we're going to examine the240legal authority and the national security interests that241supported the United States' successful operation to apprehend242the indicted narcoterrorist, Nicolas Maduro.243    For decades, Nicolas Maduro and the senior officials in his244regime worked with some of the world's most violent narcotics245traffickers to flood our United States of America with246dangerous drugs.247    Let's be clear about what this was. Maduro directed a248narcoterrorism enterprise that trafficked thousands of tons of249cocaine into the United States of America.250    This enriched his regime, it empowered criminal cartels,251and it poisoned communities across our country. These are our252children, our families, our brothers, our sisters, and our253aunts and uncles.254    I say that during a lot of these hearings because I want255people to feel it and realize it and understand, this is not256just some vague notion or concept or philosophy. These are real257people whose lives are destroyed forever.258    It wasn't just corruption, and it wasn't just politics. It259was organized crime at the highest level of government.260    In 2020, the Department of Justice unsealed an indictment261charging Maduro with multiple Federal crimes, including drug262trafficking and narcoterrorism.263    For years, Maduro evaded justice. He hid behind a fortified264regime protected by armed loyalists and foreign security265forces.266    On January 3, 2026, that changed. The President authorized267a targeted operation to capture Maduro and bring him to the268United States of America to face true justice.269    The U.S. law enforcement, intelligence agencies, and270military personnel spent months gathering intelligence and271coordinating the operation, code named Absolute Resolve.272    During a very precise nighttime raid in Caracas, U.S.273Forces extracted Maduro and his wife from a military compound274and transported them to the United States of America. Days275later, the couple was arraigned in Federal court in New York on276these serious charges.277    Now, some critics have tried to find fault with this278operation. They've tried to frame it as an operation as279something that it was not.280    Let me once again be clear. This mission was not an281invasion. This mission was not war. This mission was not regime282change. This mission always was a law enforcement operation to283apprehend indicted fugitives who spent decades orchestrating284criminal activity that harmed our American people.285    The Constitution clearly grants the President broad286authority to conduct such operations. Article II authority, the287President serves as the Commander in Chief and as the Chief288Executive responsible for faithfully executing the laws of the289United States.290    When American law enforcement could not safely breach a291fortified compound controlled by an indicted narcoterrorist,292the President had the authority to deploy military force to293support the arrest operation.294    History supports this type of action. Presidents from both295sides of the aisle have authorized U.S. forces to operate to296confront criminal regimes, protect American interests, and297bring dangerous criminals to justice. That's exactly what298happened.299    In the months leading to Maduro's capture, the United300States also conducted decisive marine operations to disrupt301drug smuggling networks operating near Venezuela. The U.S.302forces carried out targeted strikes on vessels transporting303narcotics through the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific.304    These operations dismantled cartel logistics networks and305cutoff funding streams that supported drug trafficking and306terrorism.307    At the same time, the United States seized sanctioned oil308tankers and imposed a maritime blockade on vessels supporting309Venezuela's shadow, illegal--often illegal--oil trade. Those310actions mattered.311    They weakened the financial lifeline that allowed Maduro's312regime to operate with impunity. Together these efforts313restored deterrence in the region and helped protect the314American homeland from transnational threats and criminals.315    You know what? As an aside, the Venezuelan people are so316subject to this reign of terror, so many of them, the vast317majority of them, don't want to suffer through this, but318they're forced to.319    Quite frankly, in Venezuela they don't have the Second320Amendment, and for them to try to oppose the administration,321they're literally there with rakes, shovels, and baseball bats.322That just doesn't work. These poor people have been terrorized323and destroyed themselves.324    Maduro's arrest weakened the influence of hostile actors325who used his regime as a foothold in the Western Hemisphere.326Who were they? Iranian operatives. Who were they? Hezbollah327operatives, Chinese operatives, transnational criminal328organizations, really bad, evil folks. All of them exploited329Maduro's government to expand their operations around the330world.331    By dismantling this regime's leadership, the United States332took a major step, a major step toward restoring stability and333security in our hemisphere of the world.334    Critics have claimed the President's actions were unlawful,335but both domestic and international law supports them in what336they did.337    The United States acted to enforce U.S. criminal law to338protect American citizens, to dismantle a narcoterrorist339network responsible for enormous, unspeakable, and destructive340harm.341    Ultimately, the operations in and around Venezuela sent a342very, very clear message: Those who traffic drugs enable343terrorism and undermine democracy, and they cannot hide behind344corrupt regimes forever, not in Venezuela and, hope to God,345someday not anywhere.346    The United States will pursue justice wherever those347criminals attempt to hide. Successful operation of Operation348Absolute Resolve proves exactly that.349    We literally will save lives and families because of the350work that was done there. It's really tangible. It's real. It351makes a difference.352    I thank all the witnesses for being here today on both353sides of this issue. We look forward to hearing from you. Once354again, I thank you.355    I am now going to recognize the Ranking Member, Ms.356Crockett, for an opening statement.357    Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.358    Thank you to the witnesses for being here. It seems like we359have a lot of students. Otherwise, you have real young faces in360here. I want to thank each and every one of you for being here361today.362    Unfortunately, this is a conversation I never thought we363should have and so let's get into it.364    The so-called ``President of peace'' has spent all his time365in office dragging the United States into conflict all over the366world. He's threatened our closest allies. He started another367unauthorized regime change war in the Middle East. In this368instance, he invaded a sovereign Nation and kidnapped its369leader.370    Now, I don't want you to get it twisted and believe for any371reason that I think Maduro is a saint. There are processes.372    A lot of Republicans in Congress and on this Committee will373argue that Trump's attacks on Venezuela will be for the good of374the Venezuelan people, as the Chair has laid out.375    Let me be clear, Donald Trump does not care about the376Venezuelan people and let me give you the receipts on how I377know.378    He said that Venezuelans were invading the United States.379He terminated the protected status of more than 350,000380Venezuelans. He deported Venezuelans to El Salvador's terrorist381prison even though many of them had no criminal record.382    This was never about helping the Venezuelan people. Donald383Trump does not care about Venezuelans at all.384    To be clear, there is no legal basis for the U.S.385Government to invade a sovereign country and kidnap its leader.386There is no legal basis for recklessly bombing people who pose387no immediate threat to the United States.388    The exact language that I believe the Chair used was that389this was a precise operation. I don't know if his definition of390``precise'' includes the fact that there were at least 40391civilians killed in this operation in Venezuela, and there was392a total of 83 persons that were killed during this invasion.393    Donald Trump's unlawful military action in Venezuela was394never about stopping illicit drugs from entering the United395States. According to the DEA's National Drug Threat Assessment,396Venezuela has little to no role in smuggling illicit fentanyl397into the United States.398    In fact, DEA has never listed Venezuela as a fentanyl399source or transit country. Coast Guard and military data do not400show any fentanyl coming from Venezuelan-linked maritime401routes.402    It's interesting because the last thing that I remember403hearing about is that the President decided not to consult with404Congress before going into Venezuela, but to consult with oil405corporate executives. I'll just put that out there.406    Donald Trump, he also pardoned former Honduran President407Juan Hernandez who was found guilty in a court of law in these408United States of trafficking more than 400 tons of cocaine into409the United States, which is double the amount of cocaine that410Trump's own State Department estimates was trafficked through411the entire country of Venezuela.412    International drug traffickers love Donald Trump because413they know that even if they are arrested, it's easy enough to414get a pardon from him.415    The data shows that Donald Trump is one of the most prodrug416trafficking Presidents in modern-day history. Since he took417office, prosecutions for drug trafficking have fallen to the418lowest levels in decades, because the agents tasked with going419after drug cartels have either been fired or forced to start420raiding your local Home Depot; or illegally breaking into the421homes of American citizens; or monitoring community schools and422churches so that the government can disappear entire families.423    It was never about protecting Americans. It was never about424bringing democracy to Venezuela. It was never about stopping425illicit drugs from entering the country. Like everything else426this administration does, it was about corruption.427    The President told oil executives about the planned attack428days before it happened. Trump then promised that oil companies429would be fully reimbursed by American taxpayers for any430investments they make in Venezuela.431    Once the President illegally took control over Venezuela's432oil reserves, the first sale went to the company of a man who433donated $6 million to Trump's campaign.434    This is why the President attacked Venezuela. This was435about greed. This was about controlling their oil, so that the436oil executives who donated to his campaign can make even more437money.438    Not only was this illegal and corrupt, it's also extremely439expensive for U.S. taxpayers. The operation to capture Maduro440cost taxpayers at least $3 billion, and it is now costing441taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain the oil442tankers that the U.S. Government has seized.443    As a Texan, let me tell you, this is not helping those in444my State that engage in oil work.445    This erratic and illegal foreign policy is now responsible446for the deaths of 13 U.S. servicemembers and has made the447Republican-caused economic crisis even worse.448    The final point that I'll make is that, especially as we449have young people here, there's a lot that we can learn from450our youth. I remember as a little girl being told things like451``Two wrongs don't make a right.''452    It is very clear that Maduro is a wrong guy, and he may453have even been illegally in power. The idea that you would meet454illegality with further illegality does not necessarily make it455right.456    As someone who is trained in the law, as someone who still457respects the law, as someone who believes that law and order458should matter in this country--I can't speak for others--it is459a shame that we do not have enough people that understand the460Constitution that are serving in the Congress and decide that461they want to stand up and protect Americans as we have a462lawless, 34 count convicted felon that is continuing to engage463in illegal actions that are harming both us here domestically464as well as Americans and others abroad.465    With that, I will yield.466    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. Crockett. I will now recognize467the Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Raskin.468    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, thank you very much. Thanks to the469witnesses for joining us today.470    Since the summer, the administration has launched more than47140 strikes on alleged drug boats in international waters,472mostly in the Caribbean, killing at least 157 people. This is473without any declaration of war.474    I am also moved, like Ms. Crockett, by all the young people475here today.476    I just want to remind you to read your Constitution,477because in Article I, Section 8, Clause 11, it gives Congress478the power to declare war.479    The Founders of our country were so adamant about this.480James Madison wrote a letter from Thomas Jefferson specifically481on the subject, saying the kings were constantly plunging their482countries into wars of conceit and vanity, imperial avarice,483and corruption, and it had to be the representatives of the484people who decide to go to war, and not one guy.485    Today, not Donald Trump, not J.D. Vance, or not Tulsi486Gabbard, it's got to be the representatives of the people. As487with what's taking place in Iran today, there is no declaration488of war.489    As I survey the wreckage of this administration's drug490enforcement policy, I'm reminded of what Talleyrand said about491Napoleon who murdered one of his cousins. He said, ``This is492worse than a crime, it's a mistake.''493    What has taken place with these lethal strikes on drug494boats is both a crime--murder--plain and simple--but it's also495a mistake.496    The administration has not provided any plausible legal497justification under domestic or international law for Trump to498use the military to kill anyone that he unilaterally deems to499be a terrorist.500    If these people were on U.S. soil, they would be arrested501based on probable cause, if it existed. They'd be indicted.502They'd be tried in court. Then, they'd be convicted by a jury503of their peers or they'd be acquitted.504    Donald Trump knows something about the criminal justice505process. He demanded every right in the arsenal of due process506rights we have, and well he should have when he was convicted507on 36 different counts of felony fraud.508    He had the right to counsel. He had the right to present509evidence. He had the right to cross-examine. He had the right510to be indicted and the right to a jury of his peers deciding511the case.512    Even out at sea, our Coast Guard knows how to interdict a513ship and take sailors into custody.514    In America, we arrest and we prosecute people who commit515crimes. We don't blow them out of the water with a Hellfire516missile.517    These boat strikes are also, though, spectacular and costly518mistakes, obviously a made-for-TikTok distraction, covering up519the completely ineffectual drug policies of the administration,520and then, in a self-defeating way, preventing us from focusing521on what really works in fighting drugs.522    Under the Biden Administration, the U.S. saw the largest523drop in opioid and fentanyl overdose deaths in history, from52480,000 in 2023 to 54,000 in 2024. Again, the huge numbers of525people, but still moving things in the right direction.526    In West Virginia, opioid deaths declined by 46 percent; in527Wisconsin by 44 percent. Things were moving in the right528direction.529    President Trump appears to be doing everything in his power530to reverse this progress with his characteristic recklessness531and bravado.532    Just a few months ago, he slashed staffing at the Substance533Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration by 50 percent.534He terminated $1.7 billion in block grants for mental health535services for State health departments. He cut $350 million in536addiction and overdose prevention funding in 2025.537    It's already way underfunded, but he's been slashing away538at the money that's actually there.539    His One Big Ugly Bill cut tens of billions of dollars out540of Medicaid, which provides health coverage to nearly half of541adults in America who have an opioid-use disorder.542    We are not going to be able to treat addiction to opioids543and the crisis we have in overdoses by blowing up boats in the544middle of the ocean. We've got to treat the people who are545suffering from these addictions.546    Mr. Chair, it's not a video game, it's a national public547health and medical emergency, and we're not going to be able to548bomb our way out of a fentanyl crisis.549    More than 5,000 FBI and DEA agents have been reassigned550from combating drug cartels, actually fighting drug cartels, to551immigration enforcement to meet Stephen Miller's immigration552quotas.553    Last year, Attorney General Bondi terminated the Department554of Justice's Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces, a555long-standing strike force created by Ronald Reagan, which556allowed DOJ to coordinate with agencies investigating cartels557and international criminal networks.558    Over the last four decades, these task forces conducted559more than 37,000 investigations of overseas criminal drug and560trafficking enterprises, leading to the conviction of over561321,000 defendants and we're dismantling it.562    Our witness today, Thomas Padden, is the former Acting563Director of the Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task564Force. As a nonpartisan law enforcement professional Mr. Padden565can testify to what was the efficacy and utility of this task566force when it comes to dismantling drug trafficking networks,567and he can explain just how dangerous the elimination of these568tools will be and already has been for our country.569    The Trump Administration claims it launched these deadly570boat strikes because the Maduro regime was bringing cocaine571into the United States and Trump is a tough and determined572fighter of cocaine.573    Check this out. Just last year, President Trump pardoned574Juan Orlando Hernandez, the convicted mega cocaine trafficker575and disgraced former President of the country of Honduras.576    Hernandez turned Honduras into a full blown narco State and577used his Presidency to operate one of the largest and most578violent drug trafficking conspiracies on Earth.579    When asked why Trump would pardon a narcotrafficker580responsible for shipping 400 tons of cocaine--that's more than581800,000 pounds of cocaine, someone will correct my math if I'm582wrong on that--800,000 pounds of cocaine into our country,583President Trump responded that the decade-long criminal584investigation into Hernandez was, quote, ``nothing more than a585Biden set-up'' which is a remarkable claim, given that it was586Trump's own former defense attorney and former DOJ senior587official and now handpicked Federal Judge Emil Bove who built588the case against Hernandez and his family during Trump's first589term.590    Hernandez is a coke smuggler and dealer who was taped591saying: ``We're going to shove the drugs up the noses of the592gringos.''593    He had apparently other connections to the Trump family and594the Trump White House, and he was able to get his pardon.595    If you think that was unusual, check out Trump's pardon of596Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, a website that597facilitated more than 1.5 million narcotics transactions.598    Prosecutors described Ulbricht as the kingpin of a599worldwide digital drug-trafficking enterprise for his role in600operating the crypto-powered online black market which601facilitated the sale not just of cocaine, but heroin and602fentanyl and other deadly drugs.603    Well, this drug kingpin-friendly administration has cut604health-care funding for Americans who are suffering from opioid605use disorder, they've pardoned narcotraffickers, and they've606dismantled the law enforcement apparatus that actually combats607drug trafficking and international crime. Federal drug608prosecutions dropped by 10 percent last year.609    This new ``shoot first, ask questions later'' approach to610the war on drugs has not substantially stopped drugs from611coming into the country in any way. For decades, the Coast612Guard stopped the same boats we're blowing up now.613    We have not stopped any fentanyl from coming into the614United States, the drug primarily responsible for killing615Americans, since Venezuela does not produce or export any616substantial amount of fentanyl. They changed the subject and617started talking about cocaine.618    These strikes fundamentally weaken our ability to bring619cases against drug kingpins or the networks that actually sent620these drugs since we're blowing up the lower-level witnesses621that we need to indict and prosecute higher-level operators.622    Well, it's not just the pardons that make no sense. ICE's623obsession with meeting Miller's deportation targets has led624them to detain individuals who should be standing trial for625their drug offenses.626    In a number of cases, State drug cases have been delayed or627even dismissed altogether where defendants detained by ICE have628failed to appear in court.629    One judge was forced to dismiss a case against a person630working with the Sinaloa drug cartel because he was in ICE631custody instead and was deported.632    If they've committed crimes here, they should be prosecuted633here, and they should be sentenced and fined here.634    The billions of dollars these unlawful and ineffective635executions cost could be used to save American lives. We should636fully restore mental health service funding. We could support637rural hospitals that are on the front line of this addiction638crisis. We could be investigating real drug traffickers and639prosecuting more drug cases.640    The Secretary of War Hegseth needs his clicks, and so we641continue bumbling down this reckless, inexplicable, and642counterproductive path. It's not just a crime. It's a mistake.643    I yield back to you, Mr. Chair.644    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the Ranking Member. Without645objection, all the opening statements will be included in the646record. We will now introduce today's witnesses.647    Professor Josh Blackman. Mr. Blackman is a Professor of Law648and the Centennial Chair of Constitutional Law at the South649Texas College of Law, Houston, Texas.650    His research focuses on constitutional law, the651intersection of law and technology, and the U.S. Supreme Court.652    Mr. Franklin Camargo. Did I pronounce that correctly? Good.653    Mr. Camargo is a political commentator. He fled Venezuela654after the Maduro regime accused him of terrorism, they accused655him of terrorism, for advocating for political liberty and656capitalism. He was granted political asylum by the United657States in 2019.658    I know we can't make the whole world run right, and I know659we can't change all the regimes, but Venezuela was a cruel and660horrible place, and so many people were mistreated and hurt661there.662    Ms. Gina D'Andrea. Ms. D'Andrea is the General Counsel for663the America First Policy Institute. She previously was a Deputy664General Counsel and a litigation attorney for the AFPI.665    Mr. Thomas Padden. Mr. Padden previously served as the666Acting Director of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task667Force from June 2008-March 2025. He served as the Deputy668Director of the task force.669    We're going to begin by swearing you all in. Would you670please rise, and once you've risen, please raise your right671hand.672    Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that673the testimony you are about to give is true and correct674according to the best of your knowledge, information, and675belief, so help you God?676    Thank you. You may sit down.677    Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in678the affirmative.679    Please know that your written testimony will be entered680into the record in its entirety, all of it. Accordingly, we ask681that you summarize your testimony to five minutes.682    Professor Blackman, we are going to start with you. The683floor is yours.684685                  STATEMENT OF JOSHUA BLACKMAN686687    Mr. Blackman. Thank you. Chair Van Drew, Ranking Member688Crockett, and Ranking Member Raskin, thank you for inviting me689to testify.690    My name is Josh Blackman, and I hold the Centennial Chair691of Constitutional Law at the South Texas College of Law,692Houston.693    I'm grateful this hearing was titled at a broad level of694generality: ``The Legal Basis for Action Against Venezuelan695Drug Traffickers.'' This hearing is not about a series of696isolated events, such as boat strikes in the Caribbean or the697arrest of Nicolas Maduro. Rather, over the course of six years,698the first and second Trump Administrations took a series of699escalating actions against Venezuelan drug traffickers,700culminating in Operation Absolute Resolve on January 3, 2026.701    The legal basis for the boat strikes and Maduro's arrest702must be understood in the context of all that came before. In703my brief testimony, I want to offer a bird's-eye view of the704actions taken.705    First, on March 26, 2020, the U.S. Attorney for the706Southern District of New York unsealed a criminal indictment707against Maduro on charges of narcoterrorism.708    Second, on January 20, 2025, President Trump designated709Tren de Aragua (TDA), as a foreign terrorist organization710(FTO).711    Third, the event occurred on March 15, 2025. President712Trump invoked the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 regarding TDA. The713proclamation stated that Maduro ``maintains close ties to714regime-sponsored narcoterrorists,'' including TDA. The715President used this proclamation to remove alleged TDA members.716    However, Judge James Boasberg ordered the plane to turn717around over international waters, and to this day, the Federal718court is still considering whether President Trump properly719invoked the Alien Enemies Act. This statute had been in the720books since John Adams was President.721    Fourth, the event occurred on March 24, 2025. President722Trump imposed emergency tariffs on Venezuelan oil. The723Executive Order found that the Maduro regime ``continues to724pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national725security and foreign policy of the United States.''726    Fifth, on July 17, 2025, the Treasury Department imposed727sanctions on top leaders of TDA. At the time Secretary of State728Marco Rubio announced that ``Maduro, currently indicted by our729Nation, has corrupted Venezuela's institutions to assist the730cartel's criminal narcotrafficking scheme into the United731States.''732    Sixth, according to press reports, by August 2025,733President Trump had directed the Pentagon to use military734forces against TDA. Throughout August there was a major buildup735of Naval force in the Caribbean.736    Seventh, on September 2, 2025, President Trump announced737that, quote, ``U.S. military forces conducted a kinetic strike738against a TDA boat in international waters,'' which was739``operating under the control of Nicolas Maduro.''740    President Trump sent a letter to Congress and said the741strike was justified as, quote, ``self-defense of the United742States.''743    To date, the military has struck approximately 45 vessels.744    Eighth, in October, Pentagon officials and the head of the745Office of Legal Counsel briefed Members of Congress--maybe even746some of you--about the legal basis of boat strikes.747    The opinion was based on the premise that the President748could determine that the United States is in a formal armed749conflict with narcoterrorist drug cartels. This opinion has not750been made public and I haven't seen it.751    On November 6, 2025, the Senate voted on a war powers752resolution that would have terminated hostilities against753Venezuela. That resolution did not pass.754    Ninth, on December 10, 2025, the United States seized an755oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela.756    Tenth, on December 23, 2025, the Office of Legal Counsel757signed a 22-page opinion, concluding that the ``President may758lawfully order military personnel to assist law enforcement in759removing Maduro from Venezuela.''760    That opinion has been released and I'm happy to discuss it761with you later today.762    Eleventh, on January 3, 2026, the United States executed763the law enforcement operation known as Operation Absolute764Resolve. FBI agents, who were protected by a massive but short-765lasting military operation, arrested Maduro and his wife. They766were returned and extradited to New York City.767    The legal issues here are complex and touch on matters of768domestic and international law. Difficult decisions were made769based on classified information that is not public, as those770legal opinions have not been released.771    My analysis here is necessarily incomplete and speculative.772I don't have all the facts, and you probably have more facts773than I do.774    Finally, it's useful to remember that these issues are not775the sort that courts will resolve. Rather, these matters fall776to the political branches--the Congress and the President.777    I am thankful to be here as Congress performs its important778role under the Constitution for providing oversight of the779executive branch.780    Thank you for your attention.781    [The prepared statement of Mr. Blackman follows:]782    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]783784    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Professor. Mr. Camargo, you may785begin.786787                 STATEMENT OF FRANKLIN CAMARGO788789    Mr. Camargo. Chair Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett,790Ranking Member Raskin, and the Members of the Subcommittee,791thank you for your invitation to share my experience and offer792my thoughts on recent American action against Venezuelan793criminals.794    One of those criminals once accused me of being a795terrorist. Today the real terrorist, Nicolas Maduro, is behind796bars.797    I was born in Venezuela and soon experienced the failures798of socialism. When I spoke out, I was accused of terrorism799under a so-called Law Against Hatred.800    I could have been thrown in jail for as many as 20 years. I801escaped, but my family wasn't so lucky. My cousin was tortured802and spent more than two years in political prison.803    I was blessed to legally immigrate to the United States,804and I was granted asylum. Today I work at PragerU where I805promote American values.806    One value that made the United States the greatest country807on Earth is moral clarity.808    Ronald Reagan was quite clear when he called the Soviet809Union an evil empire. For that same reason, it is important to810be clear today. Maduro was not simply a bad President or a811rogue leader. He's an evil narcoterrorist who committed crimes812against Americans.813    There are some here today who can testify to the legality814of Operation Absolute Resolve. I want to testify to its815necessity.816    Let me first explain why Maduro's capture serves American817interests.818    The Chavez and Maduro regimes turned Venezuela from a long-819time ally of the United States into a drug cartel. Two hundred820fifty tons of cocaine moved through Venezuela each year under821the protection of the regime itself, otherwise known as Cartel822de los Soles, Cartel of the Suns.823    Thirty thousand Americans died from cocaine overdoses every824single year. When a narcoregime floods our neighborhoods with825dangerous drugs, American families pay the price. That is why826the Department of Justice indicted Nicolas Maduro in 2020 for827narcoterrorism.828    Drug trafficking was not Maduro's only crime. The regime829established an official government conspiracy of sending830violent criminals to the United States with a not-so-secret831goal to subvert this country.832    Among them were members of the dangerous gang Tren de833Aragua, who were responsible for armed robberies, sexual834assaults, and the vicious murders of Laken Riley and of Jocelyn835Nungaray.836    Make no mistake. This was not an accident. It was part of a837deliberate regime strategy.838    Just ask Hugo ``El Pollo'' Carvajal, the head of839Venezuela's military intelligence revealed the truth about drug840trafficking. It was not about making money. Drugs were841deliberately used as a weapon of mass destruction against the842United States.843    Carvajal detailed the regime's collusion with Colombian844guerilla, Hezbollah terrorists, and Cuban intelligence. In845other words, one of the architects of the policy itself846revealed the truth: The ultimate goal was to destabilize these847United States of America.848    That is reason enough to indict Nicolas Maduro, to capture849him, and to bring him to justice. Anything less would have850amounted to a dereliction of duty.851    American action in Venezuela, therefore, was not some rogue852act of aggression. It was in defense of the sovereignty and853security of the American people.854    Some suggest Venezuela also has a right to sovereignty, of855self-determination. I agree. A majority of Venezuelans agree.856Are those claiming to advocate for Venezuela talking about857sovereignty of the Venezuelan people or about sovereignty of858the regime?859    Too many describe Maduro as a legitimate President. He860wasn't. Most international observers concluded elections were861stolen in 2013, 2018, and in 2024.862    He was not kidnapped. Maduro was a fugitive, indicted by863the U.S. Department of Justice, who felt the long arm of the864law.865    When we protested in Venezuela, some of us would carry the866American flag, that flag right there, because it has a very867powerful meaning, something innate in each of us, freedom.868    Today I've never seen Venezuelans so optimistic. If the869country of my birth becomes free again it would benefit both870Venezuela and the United States.871    America would be stronger without a narcoterrorist base872just a short flight from Miami. Our economy would be stronger873and more prosperous alongside an ally who no longer does874business with adversaries like China. There is no doubt America875would be safer, stronger, more prosperous with a free876Venezuela.877    The capture of Nicolas Maduro was not only justified. It878was necessary for the security of the American people.879    Thank you and I look forward for your questions.880    [The prepared statement of Mr. Camargo follows:]881    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]882883    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Camargo. Next, Ms. D'Andrea.884885                   STATEMENT OF GINA D'ANDREA886887    Ms. D'Andrea. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Madam Ranking Member,888Mr. Ranking Member, and the distinguished Members of this889Committee.890    My name is Gina D'Andrea. I serve as General Counsel of the891America First Policy Institute, and I'm here today to talk892about the legal basis for the President's authority to take893military action to protect the American people from external894threats.895    As I'll explain, the President's authority in such896situations rests on long-accepted Constitutional grounds and897has, in fact, been exercised by various Presidents dating back898to the Founding Fathers.899    First, a brief recap of what's going on in the Western900Hemisphere.901    Evidence shows that the United States is confronting a902narcoterrorist network that operates within Venezuela.903    Under Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela has served as a hub for904extra-hemispheric actors who are hostile to the United States,905enabling the trafficking of drugs and criminals into our906homeland.907    Maduro was indicted by a Federal grand jury in the Southern908District of New York on charges of narcoterrorism and909conspiracy to import cocaine into the United States.910    Neither the United States, under both the Biden and Trump911Administrations, nor the European Union, has recognized him as912a legitimate head of State.913    In fact, under the prevailing norms of customary914international law, even the United Nations would be hard-915pressed to recognize Maduro's legitimacy.916    He lost the 2024 election. He refused to cede power. No917principle of international recognition, whether grounded in918effective control or democratic legitimacy, can sustain a claim919to lawful governance by a leader who holds office in defiance920of his own electorate.921    He's been named by the Department of State as the official922leader of the Cartel de los Soles and has used this power to923weaponize an illegitimate mafia to traffic narcotics into924American communities on an industrial scale.925    He's also alleged to have worked against U.S. interests926with Iran, including potentially aiding Iranians in entering927the United States under the illegal CHNV parole program that928was in operation during the Biden Administration.929    The evidence is clear. This is not a foreign policy930dispute. It's the protection of the American people and the931enforcement of American criminal law.932    The authority of the President under Article II of the933Constitution is sufficient to support action to address these934threats from America's neighbors.935    As Commander in Chief, the President bears the primary936responsibility and, truthfully, the obligation to protect the937American people and ensure national security.938    This authority to address external threats before they939reach the homeland has bipartisan recognition, dating back to940the Founding Fathers.941    The administration's recent Executive Order designating the942cartel networks as foreign terror organizations recognizes that943these are not ordinary criminals and are instead paramilitary944entities that pose a direct threat to the United States.945    This designation bolsters the President's authority to take946action in defense of the American people.947    Turn to the strikes on the narcotrafficker vessels.948Congress itself has designated the Department of War as the949lead Federal agencies for detecting and monitoring drug950trafficking into the United States.951    The Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act vests Federal952jurisdiction over drug trafficking aboard vessels on the high953seas. These strikes were carried out as a result of evidence954showing such drug trafficking was taking place.955    More to the point, the Commander in Chief has the956constitutional authority to protect the homeland. Striking957vessels that evidence shows serve as instrumentalities of958narcoterrorism is a lawful exercise of that power.959    Turn next to the capture of Maduro. Operation Absolute960Resolve was not an act of war or regime change. It was a961targeted law enforcement operation that used a whole-of-962government approach to execute a Federal arrest warrant.963    It was not the first time the United States has done this.964In 1989, the United States deployed military forces to965apprehend General Noriega, the then-sitting dictator indicted966on Federal drug trafficking charges.967    Federal courts upheld jurisdiction and rejected his head of968State immunity claim.969    Perhaps most relevant is that Maduro, like Noriega, enjoys970no sovereign immunity because the United States does not971recognize him as a legitimate head of State.972    Both operations draw further support from the President's973constitutional authority over foreign affairs. What's more, the974War Powers Resolution of 1973 expressly preserves the975President's independent Article II authority. The976administration complied with its procedural requirements.977    The Office of Legal Counsel has maintained across978administrations of both Democrats and Republicans that the979President may act without prior congressional authorization980when the operation serves important national interests and does981not rise to the level of a constitutional war.982    Congress has even appropriated counter-narcotics funds,983designated the Department of War as the lead counterdrug984agency, and a Federal grand jury returned the very indictment985this operation enforced.986    The Members of this Committee, the Framers designed a987Constitution to balance energy in the Executive with988accountability through Congress. These operations honor that989design. The capture of Maduro executed a Federal warrant990against a man no free Nation recognizes as legitimate.991    Here are some brief facts.992    Maduro is a narcoterrorist who helped lead the so-called993Cartel of the Suns. He advanced largescale drug trafficking. He994armed an illegitimate militia, solicited arms for a terrorist995organization, and presided over unfree and unfair elections.996    This administration's actions were targeted, limited, and997constitutionally grounded in over two centuries of executive998practice.999    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.1000    [The prepared statement of Ms. D'Andrea follows:]1001    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]10021003    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. D'Andrea. Mr. Padden, you may1004begin.10051006                   STATEMENT OF THOMAS PADDEN10071008    Mr. Padden. Chair Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett,1009Ranking Member Raskin, and the Members of the Committee, thank1010you for the opportunity to speak with you here today.1011    Last September, I retired after 47 years of combined1012military and Federal civilian service when the administration1013eliminated the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force's1014component of the Department of Justice.1015    I served as the Deputy Director and Acting Director of1016OCDETF, as it's known, for the last 17 years of my career. I1017served under ten Attorneys General, five Presidents, and nine1018administrations.1019    Over the past five decades, each administration, both1020Republican and Democrat, made improvements to our ability to1021focus and coordinate our efforts and resources against drug1022trafficking threats.1023    The counterdrug mission is nonpartisan, and administrations1024from both parties were dedicated to increasing the depth and1025breadth of our Nation's capabilities.1026    Unfortunately, that is not the case today, and Americans1027are less safe than we were 15 months ago.1028    This administration eliminated organizations and1029capabilities integral to the counterdrug mission, and it1030reduced or diverted mission focused staffing and resources in1031this critically important space.1032    It replaced lawful investigations with military targeting1033of suspected drug traffickers and pardoned at least one1034convicted drug trafficker, who is also a corrupt foreign1035leader.1036    I served for 12 years as a commissioned Marine Corps1037officer before joining the Department of Justice. At DOJ, I1038conducted task force investigations and prosecutions of Mexican1039and South American drug trafficking networks.1040    After leading the Criminal Division's Narcotic and1041Dangerous Drug Section, I became the Deputy Director of OCDETF.1042    Established in 1982, OCDETF was the largest and most1043successful anticrime task force in the Nation, and it was the1044centerpiece of the Attorney General's strategy to reduce the1045supply of illicit and dangerous drugs.1046    Our mission was to dismantle and disrupt transnational1047criminal networks through fulsome enterprise investigations.1048    The OCDETF received bipartisan support for over four1049decades. Before it was eliminated at the end of last year,1050OCDETF had national reach with thousands of prosecutor-led,1051case-specific, multiagency task forces operating across the1052Nation in every Federal judicial district.1053    In its 43-year history, OCDETF task forces dismantled or1054significantly disrupted over 21,000 criminal organizations,1055seized $13.4 billion in cash and property and over 870,0001056weapons. OCDETF prosecutions convicted over 321,000 defendants.1057    It was OCDETF task forces that conducted the investigations1058and brought the drug trafficking indictments of two corrupt1059foreign politicians.1060    Through our work, former President Juan Orlando Hernandez1061of Honduras was convicted at trial, only to be later pardoned1062by President Trump.1063    Through our work, former President Nicolas Maduro of1064Venezuela was indicted on drug charges in New York.1065    Despite these successes, the administration dismantled1066OCDETF last year.1067    OCDETF's Fusion Center was a unique operational1068intelligence center that brought together case information and1069intelligence from a wide range of agencies to help the task1070forces in the field better illuminate criminal networks so they1071could better coordinate their efforts to dismantle them.1072    With more than 670 million records, the Fusion Center's1073holdings represented the Nation's largest repository of Federal1074law enforcement investigative reporting and financial data.1075With the elimination of OCDETF, the future of this capability1076is in jeopardy.1077    I served in the White House during the first Trump1078Administration. In that role, I was the senior advisor to the1079Drug Czar on drug interdiction matters, and I drafted1080congressionally mandated plans and strategies.1081    The current administration's approach to maritime drug1082smuggling is ineffective. Sinking boats and killing the crews1083and sending the evidence to the bottom of the sea is not an1084effective attack on drug cartels.1085    Interdictions that seize physical evidence and arrest1086mariners allow law enforcement to expand their investigations1087and identify additional coconspirators. Electronic devices can1088be searched, and mariners can be interrogated, and that1089additional information can be exploited.1090    A reason claimed for taking these actions was to stem the1091flow of fentanyl to the U.S. However, there's no evidence that1092they result in fentanyl seizures.1093    Fentanyl arrives in the U.S. predominantly across the U.S.-1094Mexico border. South American maritime drug shipments are1095dominantly cocaine, and those boats departing from the North1096coast of Venezuela are primarily headed to markets in North1097Africa and Europe. Sinking those boats has no effect on the1098U.S. drug supply.1099    Military strikes are not an effective first solution to1100drug enforcement. Most importantly, preemptively killing1101mariners, even those suspected of smuggling drugs, is a1102violation of U.S. and international law.1103    Despite the rhetoric that the elimination of drug cartels1104is a national priority, administration actions indicate that1105the opposite is true.1106    The administration can change direction and reestablish the1107capabilities, staffing, and structure necessary to be effective1108in dismantling these cartels. Until it does, Americans will be1109less safe.1110    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.1111    [The prepared statement of Mr. Padden follows:]1112    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]11131114    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Padden.1115    We'll now proceed with questions, and the five-minute rule1116will be in effect. I guess we are going to start with the1117gentleman from Georgia.1118    That's you. You're from Georgia, right?1119    Mr. Johnson. I think I know who I am, Mr. Chair.1120    Mr. Van Drew. I always like to bring levity, Hank. You1121looked surprised. I don't know if they warned you.1122    Mr. Johnson. Well, I thought you were going to go first.1123Your side gets to go.1124    Mr. Van Drew. No, I'm tricky, man. You never know what I'm1125going to do.1126    Mr. Johnson. I'm always ready, though.1127    Mr. Van Drew. I know you are.1128    Mr. Johnson. Tell me, Mr. Camargo, on what facts do you1129conclude that President Maduro was a drug dealer?1130    Mr. Camargo. Federal indictments, the testimony--1131    Mr. Johnson. Well, an indictment is not proof. That's just1132an allegation.1133    Mr. Camargo. Sure, but--1134    Mr. Johnson. What other facts do you have?1135    Mr. Camargo. We have the reports from the DEA. We also have1136testimoneys from people--1137    Mr. Johnson. What reports are from the DEA?1138    Mr. Camargo. The DEA reported that the Cartel de los Soles,1139Cartel of the Suns, was operating in Venezuela and--1140    Mr. Johnson. How do you connect that to Nicolas Maduro?1141    Mr. Camargo. It's an actual totalitarian regime where he1142controls every single thing in the country.1143    Mr. Johnson. What you're doing is, you're coming in here1144spouting off conclusions that you've heard which fit a nice1145little narrative that you are here--1146    Mr. Camargo. No You know who Hugo ``El Pollo'' Carvajal is?1147    Mr. Johnson. I'm going to move on, Mr. Camargo.1148    Mr. Camargo. Sure, of course.1149    Mr. Johnson. Ms. D'Andrea, what organization that is the1150America First Policy Institute?1151    Ms. D'Andrea. That's correct, sir.1152    Mr. Johnson. Isn't that the organization founded by the1153notorious racist Stephen Miller? Yes or no?1154    Ms. D'Andrea. No.1155    Mr. Johnson. That's not the one founded--1156    Ms. D'Andrea. No, it's actually--1157    Mr. Johnson. Oh, so you're not connected to Stephen Miller?1158    Ms. D'Andrea. We are not officially connected to Stephen1159Miller.1160    Mr. Johnson. OK. Well, I'm glad to know that.1161    Ms. D'Andrea. OK.1162    Mr. Johnson. I'm glad to know that. I was hoping that you1163were not the same organization.1164    Let me ask you, Professor Blackman, now, the United States1165used its awesome military power to go into Venezuela and1166extract President Maduro and then lodged him in a jail up in1167New York to await trial, correct?1168    Mr. Blackman. Uh-huh.1169    Mr. Johnson. Now, you do agree, Professor Blackman, that1170the United States is bound to the treaties that it signs with1171other Nations and which are ratified by Congress, correct?1172    Mr. Blackman. Yes.1173    Mr. Johnson. The U.N. Charter is a treaty that was ratified1174by Congress in 1945. Is that correct?1175    Mr. Blackman. Yes.1176    Mr. Johnson. The U.N. Charter provides that States must,1177quote, ``refrain in their international relations from the . .1178. use of force against the territorial integrity or political1179independence of any State.''1180    Mr. Blackman. Uh-huh.1181    Mr. Johnson. Professor Blackman, do you contend that the1182capture and kidnapping of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro1183was not a violation of international law?1184    Mr. Blackman. All right. There's two points. Thank you for1185the question.1186    The first is, the Executive Branch has long contended that1187a treaty unto itself cannot violate the President's inherent1188constitutional powers.1189    Mr. Johnson. Oh, OK. The President has the ability to1190contravene any treaties that have been ratified by the U.S.1191Congress. Is that your opinion?1192    Mr. Blackman. Well, what the Executive Branch said is that1193they will not--1194    Mr. Johnson. I'm talking about your opinion.1195    Mr. Blackman. I think it's actually the case that Congress1196can--1197    Mr. Johnson. That the President can unilaterally disavow1198and disobey treaties that have been ratified between this1199Nation and other Nations and have been ratified by Congress. Is1200that your statement?1201    Mr. Blackman. Right. Under the Supremacy Clause of the1202Constitution treaties are the law of the land, but the1203President has powers unto himself. The President will always1204assert broad powers unto himself. The Congress--1205    Mr. Johnson. You're not answering my question.1206    Mr. Blackman. No, the answer is yes. I think--1207    Mr. Johnson. You think the President--you think the1208Executive has the power to annul treaties that this Nation is1209bound to by ratification by Congress?1210    Mr. Blackman. Where a treaty intrudes on the President's1211power, and especially where there's no enforcing legislation1212binding the President--1213    Mr. Johnson. You're talking about creating the same kind of1214place where Venezuela is, where Maduro did whatever he wanted1215to do.1216    That's the kind of place that you escaped from, Mr.1217Camargo, and it's ironic that you would be here--1218    Mr. Camargo. Can I speak?1219    Mr. Johnson. Well, hold on. It's ironic that you would be1220here to protest what happened in that country when the same1221thing is happening in this country. We have constitutional1222scholars, like Professor Blackman, who are aiding and abetting1223the slide toward authoritarianism.1224    Let me ask this last question of Mr. Padden.1225    Mr. Padden, Juan Orlando Hernandez, convicted of1226trafficking in 800,000 pounds of cocaine into the United1227States, he was not extracted by the military. He was turned1228over by the Honduran Government to the U.S. for trial and1229prosecution.1230    Then less than a year into his 40-plus-year sentence he was1231pardoned by the same President that Ms. D'Andrea is here to1232defend, I guess, even though he is not even adhering to his own1233America First policy.1234    This panel, with your exception, Mr. Padden, is a sham, and1235this hearing is a sham.1236    With that, I yield back.1237    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman from Georgia. With1238that, we will recognize the gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Schmidt.1239    Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1240    Mr. Padden, I'd like to pick that up.1241    Did I understand your testimony correctly that the1242organization you worked for, which is now disbanded or defunded1243or no longer happening, did you say in your opening testimony1244that you were responsible for obtaining the indictment of Mr.1245Maduro?1246    Mr. Padden. I said that OCDETF task forces did the work1247that led to the indictment of Mr. Maduro. That was an OCDETF1248task force and the prosecutors, agents, analysts, and so forth1249were doing OCDEFT work.1250    Mr. Schmidt. That was in 2020 it was unsealed?1251    Mr. Padden. Yes, sir.1252    Mr. Schmidt. Was it obtained before that, do you know?1253    Mr. Padden. The indictment was obtained before it was1254unsealed?1255    Mr. Schmidt. I presume.1256    Mr. Padden. I presume it was, yes, sir.1257    Mr. Schmidt. Yes. Do you know, after the true bill was1258returned and the indictment was unsealed, was there an arrest1259warrant issued for Mr. Maduro?1260    Mr. Padden. I personally don't know it, but I would assume1261it.1262    Mr. Schmidt. Do you know what steps were taken by your1263organization, or any of these task forces, to actually execute1264that arrest warrant during the five-years between when it was1265unsealed and when you left the organization?1266    Mr. Padden. I don't.1267    Mr. Schmidt. Very well.1268    Professor Blackman, let me ask you then a question on that,1269because that's puzzled me.1270    If we had a valid arrest warrant that, as far as I know,1271was properly issued by a Federal grand jury, a judge ordered1272Federal agents to take Mr. Maduro into custody, is there an1273obligation on the part of the Federal Government to at least1274make some reasonable attempt to execute that order?1275    Mr. Blackman. Yes. The legal precedent actually involves1276Manuel Noriega. Back in 1989, the United States seized Noriega1277from Panama. He was holed up in a diplomatic building.1278    At the time, William Barr, the future Attorney General,1279wrote an opinion saying that when you need to execute a valid1280warrant to arrest someone for an indictment, you can use1281military force. In other words, that the force is there to1282protect.1283    Imagine we just sent FBI agents in a boat to Caracas and1284said, ``OK, walk into the country and arrest Maduro.'' They'd1285be killed in five seconds.1286    The purpose of this military force is to protect the FBI1287agents who were effecting a lawful arrest.1288    Mr. Schmidt. Well, isn't it right, Professor, that the1289President has a constitutional obligation to take care that the1290law be faithfully executed?1291    Mr. Blackman. Absolutely.1292    Mr. Schmidt. Doesn't the law authorize the arrest warrant1293to direct agents to go take Mr. Maduro into custody?1294    Mr. Blackman. Absolutely. Maduro was indicted in March12952020. There was no action taken over the past six years to get1296him until Trump started ramping up the force when the second1297administration began.1298    Mr. Schmidt. You posited the absurdity of Federal civilian1299law enforcement officers showing up in a boat and saying,1300``We're here to get Mr. Maduro.''1301    Even before that there are processes, there are procedures,1302there are extradition processes. I actually don't know if we1303had, during this time, an extradition treaty in effect with1304Venezuela.1305    Is it reasonable to think that those processes where we go1306to a foreign government and say, ``Please hand us the1307individual indicted,'' are going to operate when the individual1308indicted is the head of the foreign government?1309    Mr. Blackman. No, especially in this case where the United1310States disputes the election. Everyone agrees he's not the1311legitimate President of Venezuela.1312    You're asking someone who's not really the head of State to1313surrender himself. It's not going to happen.1314    Mr. Schmidt. The President made a judgment, which you've1315described here, though not attributing it in this case, that1316the use of military force was necessary in aid of execution of1317the lawful warrant that he had a duty to execute. Is that1318correct?1319    Mr. Blackman. Yes.1320    Mr. Schmidt. What's the alternative?1321    If that is, in fact, correct--I don't think anybody here is1322second guessing the President's judgment or his military1323advisers' judgment that it wasn't going to work to say ``pretty1324please'' and it wasn't going to work to send some FBI agents in1325a boat.1326    Therefore, we needed to have a safety bubble provided by1327the United States military for the law enforcement agents to do1328what they have been lawfully ordered to do, which is take this1329defendant into custody. What's the alternative?1330    Mr. Blackman. The alternative is to do nothing and just let1331it--1332    Mr. Schmidt. That's what we did for five years, isn't it?1333    Mr. Blackman. Exactly.1334    Mr. Schmidt. Yes, that's right. Nobody's talked about it1335here, and maybe it's not applicable, because it only applies as1336a matter of law when there are no other legal authorities, and1337here there are plenty of legal authorities the President acted1338pursuant to. Let's assume even in that case the interesting1339arguments on the other side are wrong. I remember learning of1340something called the doctrine of necessity, that sometimes it1341is necessary to do what must be done to carry out the commands1342of the law. Is that correct?1343    Mr. Blackman. Yes.1344    Mr. Schmidt. If there was no other alternative here and the1345President of the United States was under a lawful order to go1346take this man into custody, what else was he supposed to do?1347    Mr. Blackman. He had to take some action and he had the1348authority to do what he did.1349    Mr. Schmidt. If he hadn't, wouldn't he be subject to1350criticism by folks that don't like him that he had failed his1351constitutional obligations?1352    Mr. Blackman. He probably would have been, yes.1353    Mr. Schmidt. Chair, I yield back.1354    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman from Kansas. With that,1355I will recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, the1356Ranking Member.1357    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, thank you very much.1358    Ms. D'Andrea, I'm moved by some of your political1359statements. One of the things you said at the end of last year1360was, if any political figure or party can direct Federal law1361enforcement against its critics, we no longer live under the1362rule of law. Do you remember when you wrote that?1363    Ms. D'Andrea. Yes, sir.1364    Mr. Raskin. Do you reject Donald Trump's very public orders1365to the Department of Justice and the FBI to investigate and1366prosecute James Comey, Letitia James, Adam Schiff, and a bunch1367of other colleagues, including Jason Crow?1368    Ms. D'Andrea. I would say if there's reason and there's1369evidence to investigate those people, then he's absolutely1370right to call for it. If not, then he doesn't need to call for1371that.1372    Mr. Raskin. You said if any political figure can direct1373Federal law enforcement against its critics, we no longer live1374under the rule of law.1375    Ms. D'Andrea. There's a difference between someone being1376critical and someone doing something that violates the rule of1377law.1378    Mr. Raskin. OK. All of it--the reason why all the grand1379juries refused to render indictments and the reason why a1380number of prosecutors resigned or were forced out of their1381positions were because of the obvious point that Donald Trump1382is attacking them because he perceives them to be political1383critics or adversaries of his. It would seem to me, just to1384apply your rule to the facts of the situation, Donald Trump is1385absolutely taking us outside of the rule of law.1386    I don't mean to embarrass you in any way, but I liked your1387statement of principle, and I'm just willing--I'm wondering1388whether you're willing to interpret it in a completely obvious1389and objective way.1390    Ms. D'Andrea. I would say that my interpretation is1391objective, and that without having all the facts about each of1392these individuals and each of the allegations allegedly against1393them, I can't speak generally to the President's statement. I1394stick by my original statement--1395    Mr. Raskin. OK. If any President, whether it was Maduro or1396Trump or Oscar Orlando Hernandez, says, I want you to go and1397investigate and prosecute these 20 political enemies of mine,1398your position would basically be agnostic, well, let's wait and1399see what happens in the investigation? Is that right? Doesn't1400that defeat the whole point of your statement?1401    Ms. D'Andrea. Respectfully, that's not right. That's not1402what I mean. That's not what I intended to say.1403    Mr. Raskin. All right. Well, let me ask about another one.1404I wish we had all day, because you said some interesting1405things, which I agree with at the level of generality which you1406stated them. For example, you said that Maduro had refused to1407cede power, it was in the 2024 election, and you said that it's1408impossible to sustain the claim that lawful governance by a1409leader who holds office in defiance of his own electorate.1410    Well, that really made me think about what happened in14112020. When Donald Trump claimed that he won the election, but1412the Congress found that he had not won the election, 60 Federal1413and State courts rejected every claim of electoral fraud and1414corruption, but not only did he claim that he won it, he1415continues to claim that he won it, so I hope you repudiate1416that.1417    Ms. D'Andrea. Thank you for the question. I would say that1418he was--he ceded power. He gave in. President Biden was sworn1419in and was the President of the United States, so he did not1420illegally hold on to power in the manner that President Maduro,1421a legitimate dictator, did.1422    Mr. Raskin. Oh, I see. In other words, because the coup1423didn't work and the violent insurrection didn't succeed in1424overturning the election, then you think it was all right what1425he did.1426    Ms. D'Andrea. Respectfully, that's not what I said.1427    Mr. Raskin. That's what I said, though. In other words, you1428seem to be saying that because his attempt to destroy Joe1429Biden's electoral college majority, which he won by more than1430seven million votes, 306 to 232 in the electoral college,1431because his efforts to overturn that on the floor of Congress1432and with a violent insurrection, then he complied with what you1433were stating as a basic rule of law principle.1434    Ms. D'Andrea. Respectfully, sir, there's a difference1435between asking whether fraud occurred and refusing to cede1436power once it's been made clear to you that it hasn't.1437    Mr. Raskin. Well, what's inciting a violent insurrection1438against your own government?1439    Ms. D'Andrea. I'm not sure I understand what you mean,1440what--1441    Mr. Raskin. Well, you're saying there's one thing about1442asking a question, for example, going to 60 different Federal1443and State courts to try to get a ruling, but once you've lost1444all those, you think it's legitimate within the rule of law and1445democracy to incite a violent insurrection as Donald Trump was1446impeached for?1447    Ms. D'Andrea. Sir, I appreciate the question. I don't have1448a clear answer to you about that. I think the evidence--1449    Mr. Raskin. OK. Well, we can discuss it later. I thank you1450for your statement of principles, which are often quite lucid,1451but I wish that you would apply them evenhandedly across the1452board. It might be tough from the job that you're in right now.1453    I yield back to you, Mr. Chair.1454    Mr. Schmidt. Mr. Chair?1455    Mr. Van Drew. Yes.1456    Mr. Schmidt. Would you entertain a unanimous consent1457request?1458    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1459    Mr. Schmidt. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to insert1460in the record the indictment in the United States of America v.1461Nicolas Maduro Moros, formerly sealed, the superseding1462indictment. I would ask to insert in the record a document1463titled, ``Rubio: This Is Our Hemisphere and--President Trump1464Will Not Allow Our Security to be Threatened.'' I would ask to1465insert a news report titled, ``How cocaine and corruption led1466to the indictment of Maduro.'' I would ask to insert another1467news report titled, ``No, Trump's order to snatch Maduro was1468not illegal nor unconstitutional.'' I would ask to insert in1469the record another opinion piece titled, ``Yes, Trump's1470Venezuela Moves Are Legal.''1471    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1472    Mr. Schmidt. Thank you.1473    Mr. Van Drew. I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Dr.1474Onder.1475    Mr. Onder. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1476    Since his first day returning to office, President Trump1477made it clear that stopping narcoterrorism would be a top1478priority, issuing an Executive Order designating drug cartels1479as foreign terrorist organizations, which elevated the fight1480against these networks to a national security issue. The1481commitment culminated in Operation Absolute Resolve in the1482arrest of Nicolas Maduro.1483    Under Maduro's regime, Venezuela had become a hub for1484narcoterrorism, funneling over 200 metric tons of cocaine1485annually through the Cartel of the Suns. This cartel, deeply1486intertwined with the Venezuelan Government, has directly1487contributed to the deaths of over 30,000 Americans annually1488from cocaine overdoses. Maduro's regime also actively1489collaborated with foreign adversaries, including Iran and1490Hezbollah, in ways that threaten the stability and security of1491the United States.1492    President Trump acted within his constitutional authority,1493which is supported by historical precedent. From the capture of1494Manuel Noriega to targeted strikes on drug smuggling vessels,1495the President has had both the responsibility and the authority1496to act against legitimate threats to American safety. The1497operation was not only compliant with domestic law but also1498consistent with international norms as the legitimate1499Venezuelan Government supported Maduro's capture.1500    Mr. Blackman, can you elaborate on the distinction between1501a law enforcement operation and an act of war, particularly in1502the context of Operation Absolute Resolve?1503    Mr. Blackman. Sure. The real precedent here comes from the1504Obama administration. If you recall, in 2011 or so, there was a1505massive bombing campaign against Libya that went on for a very1506long time and there was an effort to try to stop President1507Obama, and the Obama Administration said this does not rise to1508the level of war. These are just hostilities. There are no1509boots on the ground. There's no risk of American servicemembers1510being injured. The Trump Administration basically relied on the1511Obama precedent.1512    This is an operation that lasted a few hours. There were no1513boots on the ground. There was some harm to American1514servicemembers, which is tragic, but this was not an obvious1515war. Because there's no war, they said, for example, there was1516no obligation to comply with the War Powers Resolution, which1517is a limited hostility to support a law enforcement operation1518to enforce indicting. Mr. Schmidt had asked me that a few1519minutes ago.1520    Mr. Onder. What would you say to critics who argue that the1521operation violated international law, particularly the U.N.'s1522charter on prohibition of use of force?1523    Mr. Blackman. I appreciate my exchange with Mr. Johnson on1524this one a few minutes ago. It's true that almost 60 years ago1525the United States ratified the U.N. Treaty, but the way I've1526always understood that is when the Congress ratifies a treaty,1527they don't quietly give away the President's powers. That's not1528something that's done quietly.1529    Mr. Onder. Article II powers.1530    Mr. Blackman. Yes, they're Article II powers. Congress1531doesn't cede its sovereignty to foreign nations very often, at1532least with that express language. When the President interprets1533Article II, Section 4, of the U.N. Treaty, they say, well,1534would we assume Congress give away this power? No. He retains1535this power. I don't think that the Article II of the U.N.1536Treaty is an obstacle to the President using his constitutional1537authority.1538    Mr. Onder. Thank you.1539    Ms. D'Andrea, how did the designation of the Cartel of the1540Suns as a foreign terrorist organization expand the President's1541authority to act against Maduro?1542    Ms. D'Andrea. Thank you, sir. It broadens his ability to1543take action. It basically says that the State Department makes1544this designation, and he is now allowed to take whatever action1545is necessary to combat these cartels.1546    Mr. Onder. Can you explain how Maduro's regime fostered1547U.S. adversaries like Hezbollah and Iran and the threat that1548posed to American safety?1549    Ms. D'Andrea. Absolutely. In addition to the drug1550trafficking that we've been discussing here today, there's1551evidence that they have been working very closely with the1552Iranian regime. You mentioned Hezbollah as well. A lot of this1553happened in the immigration context, where we had Iranians1554coming into Venezuela, being given Venezuelan passports, and1555then being admitted into the United States under the Biden CHNV1556parole program.1557    Mr. Onder. Despicable. One of my colleagues harassed you1558about Trump inciting a coup or an insurrection. President Trump1559gave a speech in which he said March peacefully and1560patriotically and support Members of Congress, and support1561Members of Congress who are adjudicating the fairness of this1562election. No matter how many times you say ``coup'' or how many1563times you say ``insurrection,'' it doesn't make it so.1564    Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.1565    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman from Missouri. I1566recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Crockett.1567    Ms. Crockett. OK. I don't know where to begin, so I'm going1568to start with Tupac. We're going to start with the fact that1569Tupac famously said, for those of you that didn't necessarily1570listen to rap, ``that we've got money for war, but we can't1571feed the poor.'' The reason that I bring this up is for two1572reasons.1573    (1) To get Maduro, the estimated cost is $3 billion. I can1574guarantee you that a lot of Americans would say, yes, there's a1575valid warrant, and things like that, but for the cost of $31576billion, let's put our money somewhere else.1577    (2) Professor, you talked about the fact that if there1578wasn't a loss of life as it relates to our servicemembers or if1579this was just kind of quick boots on the ground for a second,1580then it wasn't war. Just answer this question for me. Would you1581consider what is taking place currently in the Middle East a1582war? Because we continue to have our sons and daughters1583returned in caskets to the United States. That's a yes or no.1584    Mr. Blackman. No. The analysis for Iran is different.1585    Ms. Crockett. Oh, OK. OK. You agree with me, then? Yes?1586    Mr. Blackman. I didn't say that.1587    Ms. Crockett. OK. It's a different analysis. I'm just going1588to go with you agreeing with me, because this is clearly a war1589and it's unconstitutional. That is the bottom line.1590    Frankly, as it relates to Venezuela, I think that we still1591will have some time to determine exactly how bad it is. Because1592imagine for two seconds that you had fishermen and sailors that1593were coming from the United States, and Venezuela all of a1594sudden started bombing our people saying, oh, no, no, no,1595you're bringing guns. Because let me be clear, America does1596their fair share of nonsense in other countries. We tend to1597supply everybody with the guns. We flood this world with guns1598everywhere, right?1599    Let's say they said, ``you know what, we don't want all1600those guns going to the gangsters in our communities, so we're1601just going to start blowing people up.'' Frankly, legally, that1602may work for them. You know why? We have a Constitution and not1603everybody does.1604    It is offensive to sit here and engage in this1605conversation, as someone who practiced criminal law, and, my1606God, everyone that I had, no matter what they were accused of,1607even if they were accused of capital murder, they were given an1608opportunity to actually show up in court and face their1609accusations, not be killed.1610    The justification, I don't understand why we are trying to1611make it partisan. It should not be partisan to just go and blow1612up these boats.1613    Are you saying, Professor, that you believe that blowing up1614these boats because somebody believes--you know what? Let me do1615it this way. Let's say they are drug traffickers. Do you1616believe that it is constitutional for the United States to blow1617up people that are accused of being drug traffickers?1618    Mr. Blackman. It's not exactly a yes or no question. If I1619could just--1620    Ms. Crockett. All right. Then, I'm going to stop you there,1621because I only got so much time. Professor, I was really loving1622on you because you came from South Texas, which is down in1623Houston, not too far from the University of Houston where I got1624my law degree, but it is very clear it is unconstitutional for1625us in the United States.1626    Let me give y'all another issue that--I don't understand if1627you all see it the way that I do. There is this little thing1628called the Epstein files. There's a lot of people that have1629been found liable, charged, all kinds of stuff, from Prince1630Andrew and Peter Mandelson, from Norwegian officials, the1631former prime minister and the former Ambassador, all these1632different people, right?1633    Some would argue, especially since there was international1634trafficking that was taking place, some would argue that our1635President, whose name is found over and over and over and over1636in these files, may have engaged in, say, child trafficking,1637sex trafficking. They may come to that conclusion.1638    Now, with that being the understanding, if there are other1639countries that because they believe in actually holding people1640accountable, OK so they say, you know what? There was some1641girls from England or wherever, because there were people from1642different countries and they say we're going to just come and1643we're going to drop in on America, we're going to bomb America,1644we're going to kill civilians in America, because you know1645what? We have a warrant for his arrest, whether it's for the1646child sex trafficking in the Epstein files, because America1647doesn't want to do their job, or whether we're talking about1648violating international law, whether we're talking about going1649and just randomly killing people. I can tell you that every1650single one of you that is sticking up for him right now would1651be screaming from the rooftops. The analysis has to be the1652same.1653    I am so offended that I am still paying my doggone student1654loans for law school, and it seems like none of it matters1655nowadays, because seemingly what we do is twist the law to1656justify. The analysis is the same. It you would be outraged if1657they came and bombed our country to go after him to arrest him,1658if you're listening--I don't know if people are doing this, but1659if they decided to do that because of the Epstein files or1660because of violating international law, you would be against1661it. We should be against it right now.1662    Thank you. I'll yield.1663    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentlelady. That was a lot.1664    Ms. Crockett. Got to bring up Epstein.1665    Mr. Van Drew. I'm going to bring this well, I believe I'm1666going to bring it back, then I do have some questions for you.1667    First, history has provided us with lessons that this was1668legal action. We've learned that President Barack Obama, a1669Democrat, took similar action, and it was found that it was1670appropriate. People might have disagreed with the action, but1671that it was legal.1672    There's no question that drug supplies are down now, that1673drug use is down, but I would think again, just trying to get1674the commonsense maybe it's a good thing to try to stop it when1675we can at the source.1676    What we do typically is we let it come in, people get very1677sick, they die, we spend billions of dollars trying to make1678them whole again. A whole lot of times it doesn't work, and it1679fails, and we have a permanent destruction of a whole class of1680people in our country, and it's wrong. If you can stop these--1681you know what Americans would think? Jeez, if you can stop them1682at the borders before they come in, that would be a good thing.1683    It's also clear that he was indicted years ago, Nicolas1684Maduro, and we did nothing for 5 years. Why was that? Nobody1685can give me a good answer for that. It is also clear, I know1686the gentleman from Georgia brought up and he asked you, Mr.1687Camargo, how did we think that there was any connection between1688this illegal president in Venezuela, who usurped authority, who1689got power by violence, and there was no connection with him in1690drug cartels? Yes, there was. Everybody agrees with that. Most1691Democrats agree with that. Republicans agree with it.1692    Frankly, I love the gentleman from Georgia, I do, he's a1693nice man, but I don't know where that came from, because that1694connection is absolutely there.1695    I guess the last thing that I would say is that we've got1696to get down to, is it legal? Yes, it is. Is it going to help us1697stop people from getting sick in our country? It is. Come on,1698let's talk in real language. I say this all the time, I always1699like to kid around, I'm a dentist, I'm not an attorney. OK? It1700gets down to basic stuff, man. Take care of our people. We're1701killing them. These drugs are killing them. The amount of1702cocaine that was pushed into this country, to our babies, we've1703got to stop it any way that we can legally, and it was legal.1704    I've got some quick questions.1705    Mr. Camargo, in your testimony, you stated very clearly1706that Nicolas Maduro was not simply a bad person, by the way, an1707illegal president, a bastard to be honest with you, an awful,1708awful man, he's an evil narcoterrorist. I've got a yes or no1709question for you. Was the Venezuelan Government under Maduro1710functioning as a criminal enterprise tied to drug trafficking1711networks, yes or no?1712    Mr. Camargo. Yes, 100 percent.1713    Mr. Van Drew. OK. Mr. Camargo, you also testified that 200-1714250 metric tons of cocaine moved through Venezuela every single1715year under the protection of these regime officials. Yes or no?1716    Mr. Camargo. Yes.1717    Mr. Van Drew. Yes or no, does that make the Maduro regime1718one of the largest state-enabled drug trafficking operations in1719the entire Western Hemisphere, yes or no?1720    Mr. Camargo. Yes.1721    Mr. Van Drew. OK. Mr. Camargo, you also pointed out that1722Caracas is about 1,400 miles away from Miami, correct?1723    Mr. Camargo. Yes.1724    Mr. Van Drew. To this question, yes or no. If a1725narcoterrorist regime operates that close to the United States1726of America, does it pose a direct national security threat to1727the United States of America and to the American people?1728    Mr. Camargo. Yes.1729    Mr. Van Drew. Yes or no? Professor Josh Blackman, I'm1730sorry, I'm getting too familiar here.1731    Mr. Blackman. I'm from Staten Island; we're close.1732    Mr. Van Drew. You're good. There we go. That's a good1733thing.1734    Let me ask a simple question. Is the Western Hemisphere1735safer when a narcoterrorist regime hides the cartels and hostel1736foreign powers are removed from power? Are we safer?1737    Mr. Blackman. I think so.1738    Mr. Van Drew. Yes, I definitely think so.1739    Mr. Padden, I've got the harder questions for you. Yes or1740no, was Nicolas Maduro indicted by a Federal grand jury in the1741United States of America for narcoterrorism before this1742operation occurred?1743    Mr. Padden. He was indicted on other drug charges and1744weapons charges before the operation. There's been a1745superseding indictment, I believe, since then.1746    Mr. Van Drew. OK. He was indicted then as well, correct?1747    Mr. Padden. Correct.1748    Mr. Van Drew. By the way, that's the difference in the1749Ranking Member, I respect her, but she brought up the fact that1750it would be just like coming into our country. We keep1751forgetting he was indicted by our country. The sealed1752indictment was opened up.1753    Mr. Padden, you argue that these actions made America less1754safe, what we've done. I'm going to ask you a hard question.1755I'm going to ask you to answer it. If the United States had1756done nothing, as we were doing nothing, and allowed an indicted1757narcoterrorist running a drug network just 1,400 miles from1758Florida, moving the kind of drugs in that he was, if he1759remained in power, would that have made America safer if he1760remained in power? Yes or no?1761    Mr. Padden. It's too soon to tell whether it would or not,1762sir.1763    Mr. Van Drew. Would that make--just allowing him in power--1764you're saying that this could make it safer in America?1765    Mr. Padden. I'm not sure we'd be less safe than we1766currently are if he were still in power.1767    Mr. Van Drew. Respectfully, this is where I totally and1768fundamentally disagree with you. I thank you for your answers,1769though.1770    My time is up as well. I will recognize the gentleman, OK.1771Let me just, before I do that, let me see who is up. Yes. OK.1772Yes. Without objection.1773    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1774    I just have three articles to submit for the record:1775``Libyan bombing `unconstitutional,' Republicans warn Obama,''1776this is from March 22, 2011. ``Trump pushes Justice Department1777to prosecute his political opponents,'' that's September 21,17782025. ``The Ex-President Whom Trump Pardoned Flooded America1779With Cocaine,'' that's about Juan Orlando Hernandez from1780Honduras.1781    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection. I recognize the gentleman1782from Texas, Mr. Gill.1783    Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for holding1784today's hearing. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you to the1785witnesses for taking the time to come out here.1786    I, for one, am certainly thankful that we have a President1787who is willing and capable of identifying a clear, direct, and1788narrow strategic interest for the United States and pursuing it1789aggressively, appropriately and, at times, when necessary, with1790overwhelming force.1791    As we know, this was an illegitimate dictatorship in the1792Western Hemisphere in our own backyard that was destabilizing1793our region, operating as a hub for some of the most violent and1794ruthless and dangerous criminal cartels in the entire world, as1795well as for other of America's foreign adversaries that were1796creating migratory pressure that America has a clear and1797obvious strategic interest in tamping down. I'm glad that we1798have a President who is looking out for us.1799    Thank you again to the witnesses for being here. The1800Government Accountability Office has recognized Venezuela as a1801major drug transit country and asserts Venezuela was1802responsible for about 10-13 percent of global cocaine movement.1803Further, Venezuela hosts multiple transnational gangs,1804including the foreign terrorist organization designated Tren de1805Aragua, and especially designated global terrorist organization1806Cartel de los Soles.1807    The drug cartels trafficking of fentanyl and other1808narcotics kill tens of thousands of Americans annually and is,1809therefore, rightfully considered by the White House as an armed1810conflict.1811    Mr. Blackman, I want to start with you. How many drug1812smuggling vessels would you estimate passed freely over water1813to the United States before President Trump assumed office?1814    Mr. Blackman. I have no idea. I'm guessing it's a very1815large number.1816    Mr. Gill. Very large number. Thousands, as far as we know,1817as far as we know. How did you--could you just walk me through1818how the Maduro regime would aid drug trafficking to the United1819States?1820    Mr. Blackman. Well, the allegation is that the Maduro1821regime basically operated as almost as a coordinate of all1822these various entities, including Tren de Aragua, and this is1823basically the predicate of the President's position to impose1824the boat strikes, and it is closely linked to the position to1825arrest Maduro.1826    Mr. Gill. Yep. As we know, President Biden's open border1827policies allowed millions of people into our country that were1828totally unvetted from all over the globe to come into our1829United States and petition for dubious claims for asylum,1830claims that were dubious at best. Recognizing that kind of1831opportunity, I think Maduro opened his prisons and expelled1832thousands of criminals from Venezuela, knowing many of them1833would make their way to the United States, set up criminal1834enterprises here rather than there.1835    Biden's Venezuela temporary protected status designation1836granted quasilegal status for all Venezuelans, including1837criminals who make it to the United States. Between March and1838September 2021 alone, U.S. Border Patrol encountered nearly183947,000 Venezuelans, rising to more than 187,000 in Fiscal Year18402022.1841    About a million Venezuelans are estimated to be in the1842United States as of 2026, this year. To put that into1843perspective, there were about 28 million people living in1844Venezuela in 2024. That means that a significant portion of1845their population lives in the United States.1846    Ms. D'Andrea, thank you again for being here. Were there1847any foreign State sponsors of terrorism active in Venezuela?1848    Ms. D'Andrea. I believe the evidence shows that there was,1849yes.1850    Mr. Gill. What geopolitical adversaries were they1851associated with?1852    Ms. D'Andrea. There were Iranians and Hezbollah, I believe.1853    Mr. Gill. Right. That's right. Do you think that these1854terrorist groups use Venezuelan trafficker contacts to smuggle1855themselves or other terrorists into the United States?1856    Ms. D'Andrea. Absolutely.1857    Mr. Gill. Absolutely. That made the United States less1858safe, you would say, wouldn't it?1859    Ms. D'Andrea. Absolutely.1860    Mr. Gill. I agree, the American people agree as well. Most1861of them are pretty satisfied that we have a President, again,1862who is pursuing our interests in our region and doing so1863aggressively and legally.1864    With that said, Mr. Chair, I've got a variety of unanimous1865consent requests.1866    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1867    Mr. Gill. First, an article from the National Review by1868John Yoo, ``The Trump Administration's Actions in Venezuela Are1869Constitutional.''1870    An article from AEI also by John Yoo, ``The Long History of1871Presidential Discretion.''1872    An article from CBS News, ``Maria Corina Machado says1873Maduro capture will go down in history as the day `justice1874defeated tyranny.' ''1875    An article from FOX News, ``Rubio vows to eliminate1876Hezbollah, Iran operations from Venezuela after Maduro1877capture.''1878    A document from The White House designating cartels and1879other organizations as foreign terrorist organizations and1880specifically designated global terrorists.1881    Another document from The White House, ``Designation of1882international cartels,'' a fact sheet.1883    A document from the Department of the Treasury, ``Treasury1884Sanctions Venezuelan Cartel Headed by Maduro.''1885    Another article, quote, ``Admiral saw alleged drug boat1886strike survivors as legitimate targets, defense official1887says.''1888    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1889    Mr. Gill. That's it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1890    Mr. Van Drew. I thank the gentleman.1891    Mr. Raskin. Sorry. I've got one more too, if that's all1892right.1893    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1894    Mr. Raskin. Thank you kindly, Mr. Chair. This is from The1895New York Times, January 7, 2026, headline, ``Maduro Is Gone,1896but Repression in Venezuela Has Intensified.'' The sprawling1897political, security, and intelligence apparatus that propped up1898Maduro's strongman rule is still in place, and day-to-day life1899is getting worse.1900    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1901    Ms. Crockett. I have got a UC.1902    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1903    Ms. Crockett. This one is from March 2, 2026, ``Trump's War1904on Iran Violates International Law and U.S. Constitution: War1905Crimes Prosecutor Reed Brody.''1906    I have another one. It's from January 2026. It says,1907``Maduro is gone, but his regime is intact.''1908    I have another one. This one is from March 16, 2026,1909``Number of U.S. troops wounded in Iran war surpasses 2001910across seven countries.''1911    One more, this one is from December 18, 2025. It says1912``Appropriators backed a crime-fighting unit. DOJ closed it1913anyway.''1914    Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.1915    That concludes today's hearing. I want to thank our1916witnesses, all of them, for appearing before the Subcommittee1917today. We do appreciate your time.1918    Without objection, all members will have five legislative1919days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses1920or additional materials for the record.1921    Without objection, this hearing is adjourned.1922    [Whereupon, at 3:47 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]19231924    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the1925Subcommittee on Oversight can be found at: https://1926docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=119073.19271928                          [all]