“Oversight of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                               MEMBER DAY56=======================================================================78                                HEARING910                               before the1112                       COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND13                           GOVERNMENT REFORM1415                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1617                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                             FIRST SESSION20                               __________2122                           DECEMBER 17, 202523                               __________2425                           Serial No. 119-5326                               __________2728Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform2930               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3132    Available on: govinfo.gov, oversight.house.gov or docs.house.gov33                                ______3435                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE363762-382 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 20263839              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM4041                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman4243Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Robert Garcia, California, Ranking44Mike Turner, Ohio                      Minority Member45Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of46Virginia Foxx, North Carolina          Columbia47Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts48Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois49Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California50Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland51Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio52Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico53Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Maxwell Frost, Florida54Pat Fallon, Texas                    Summer Lee, Pennsylvania55Byron Donalds, Florida               Greg Casar, Texas56Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Jasmine Crockett, Texas57William Timmons, South Carolina      Emily Randall, Washington58Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia59Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Yassamin Ansari, Arizona60Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Wesley Bell, Missouri61Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Lateefah Simon, California62Nick Langworthy, New York            Dave Min, California63Eric Burlison, Missouri              Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts64Eli Crane, Arizona                   Rashida Tlaib, Michigan65Brian Jack, Georgia                  James R. Walkinshaw, Virginia66John McGuire, Virginia67Brandon Gill, Texas6869                                 ------7071                       Mark Marin, Staff Director72                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director73                     Ryan Giachetti, Chief Counsel74                   Christian Hoehner, Policy Director75                Duncan Wright, Deputy Director of Policy76         Mallory Cogar, Director of Operations and Chief Clerk7778                      Contact Number: 202-225-50747980                Robert Edmonson, Minority Staff Director81                      Contact Number: 202-225-50518283                                 ------8485                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S8687                              ----------8889                           OPENING STATEMENTS9091                                                                   Page9293Hon. James Comer, U.S. Representative, Chairman..................     19495                               WITNESSES9697Rep. Rashida Tlaib, Member of Congress, (MI-12)98Oral Statement...................................................     199100Rep. David J. Taylor, Member of Congress, (OH-02)101Oral Statement...................................................     3102103Rep. Rich McCormick, Member of Congress, (GA-07)104Oral Statement...................................................     5105106Rep. Bill Foster, Member of Congress, (IL-11)107Oral Statement...................................................     7108109Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S.110  House of Representatives Document Repository at:111  docs.house.gov.112113                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS114115  * Letter, from Covenant Community Care; submitted by Rep.116  Tlaib.117118The document listed above is available at: docs.house.gov.119120                               MEMBER DAY121122                               ----------123124                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2025125126                     U.S. House of Representatives127              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform128129                                                   Washington, D.C.130131    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:03 a.m., in132HVC-210, U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. James Comer133[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.134    Present: Representatives Comer, Gill, Garcia, and Tlaib.135    Also present: Representatives Taylor, McCormick, and136Foster.137    Chairman Comer. All right. The Committee on Oversight and138Government Reform will come to order. I want to welcome139everyone here this morning.140    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any141time.142143           OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JAMES COMER144                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM KENTUCKY145146    Pursuant to Section 3(r) of House Resolution 5, the147Committee convenes this Member Day hearing of the 119th148Congress. A Member Day hearing provides Members an opportunity149to discuss legislation and Member priorities within the150jurisdiction of the Oversight Committee. Today, I look forward151to hearing from Members of the House, my colleagues, on the152proposals they wish to bring before the consideration of this153Committee. We have circulated a list of Members who will be154speaking today, and any testimony provided by those Members155will be added to the official record. Each Member will be given1565 minutes to discuss their proposals and field questions as157needed.158    I now recognize Representative Rashida Tlaib from Michigan.159160                STATEMENT OF HON. RASHIDA TLAIB161                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM MICHIGAN162163    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for this164opportunity.165    As you know, the Committee on House Oversight and166Government Reform must do everything in its power to protect167the lives and safety of Federal workers, and conduct168investigations and adopt changes when current agency practices169are failing to keep our workers safe.170    I want to talk about Nicholas John Acker. He was a USPS171Detroit Network Distribution Center worker, Allen Park,172Michigan, and it was a tragic workplace accident. And, again,173we do not know, but we know it is heartbreaking and it is174something that we believe is preventable. His body, Mr. Chair,175trapped in a mail handling machine, and he had been dead for176six to eight hours before he was found. He checked in at 11177a.m., and his body was not discovered until the following day178at 12:30. His death is an unspeakable tragedy for his family,179who his mother tearing up and just demanding, looking me in my180eyes and said, ``Please, please, find out what happened to my181son.'' His fiancee, they had just gotten engaged, Mr. Speaker182[sic], ten days before he was killed.183    What is so heartbreaking and tragic about his death, too,184is the fact that he served in our military, U.S. Air Force, for185nine years. He was not killed serving there. He was killed186being a U.S. postal worker. His death, again, is heartbreaking,187and what we do know from his union is that there were188previously raised concerns about safety measures and procedures189at this facility and had recently filed a grievance about 90190days prior to his death. The grievance stated that the191management was pressuring staff to look for letters while the192handling machine was operating. Over a month after his death,193more questions, again, remain unanswered.194    [Photo]195    Nicholas was someone's son, Mr. Speaker [sic]. Look how196young he was. He was a brother, and he was a fiance. Again, he197was engaged only ten days before he was killed. They were198planning to get married in the spring. Again, Nicholas served199nine years in our U.S. Air Force. He was generous. He was a200thoughtful person. He did not, again, die serving in our201military, but here at home at a sorting facility at a U.S.202Postal Service location in Allen Park. Shortly after his death,203Representative Debbie Dingell and I wrote a letter to the204Postmaster General demanding answers, and thus far, we have not205received any responses. Please Mr. Chair, work with my team and206I. If it is legislation that we need to do to make sure this is207preventable in future, let us do that, but we cannot allow,208again, this to happen.209    Also, in the Committee, we know that we oversee a lot of210important initiatives that impact prescription drugs, and so211another matter, of course, and I know, Mr. Chair, you have been212leading on this effort. I do want to enter into the record, if213I may, a letter from Covenant Community Care. It is a federally214qualified health center.215    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.216    Ms. Tlaib. So, describing, again, their concerns with 340B.217Mr. Chair, right now, Affiliated Pharmacies and Apothecaries,218which presents more than 500 independent pharmacies across the219country, including 150 pharmacies in my district, are literally220demanding that we do something about the Pharmacy Benefit221Managers (PBMs), the actual cost of medication they dispense,222again, driving the costs, many of them having to shut their223doors. And these independent pharmacies, as you know, Mr.224Chair, are anchors in our community. They are trusted by many225of our residents that, again, are experiencing some of the226worst health challenges from cancer and so many other diseases.227Pharmacy deserts are growing, as we know, because of this, and228patients are left without any options. So, again, community229pharmacies are facing unsustainable losses, and we need to do230more about it. We know that PBMs, and I like to name them231because it is important, but CVS Caremark, Express Scripts, and232Optum Rx are reporting record profits because, again, they lack233the transparency and accountability that is necessary.234    I hear about these harmful practices almost monthly from235different independent pharmacies that continue, again, to have236these challenges. Mr. Chair, from one pharmacy in Jordan, the237pharmacist explained to me how he can see a $60,000 to $80,000238loss in a month, and again, it is not sustainable. It is also a239pharmacy that has been part of the community for so long, so,240again, community health centers also being impacted. But one of241the things they continue to tell me is that, as a result, PBMs242are trying to make medical and financial decisions on behalf of243providers and the patients, and that is unchecked power. It244should stay, again, with the person providing the care. So,245Congress and this Committee, we need to act now. It is246something that, again, both, I think, sides of the aisle have247come and understand that, again, action needs to take place.248So, the Pharmacists Fight Back Act, let us get that through249this Committee, and let us work, again, incredibly hard to make250prescription drugs much more affordable and protect our251independent pharmacies.252    With that Mr. Chair, I yield.253    Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back, and thank you254for bringing this to the Committee, the postal issue. My255sincerest condolences to this family after such a horrific256incident. We have been working with the Postal Service. Your257staff and our staff have been communicating. We are trying to258learn more about this and how to ensure that it will never259happen again. I pledge to work with you and our staffs will260continue to work to try to figure out what we can do to prevent261this and see if we get any answers as to how it happened. So,262thank you for bringing this to the attention, and, again, this263is a terrible thing, and we will work together to find some264resolution on it. You have my promise to that.265    And secondly, as you know, I am a co-sponsor of the266Pharmacists Fight Back Act with you. This is something that is267a huge priority for me. We have had three good bipartisan268investigative hearings and published a very substantive report269on the abuses of the PBM from this Committee. So, I want to see270legislation and more than self-governing oversight from the271PBMs, who I do not trust, so I pledge to work with you to try272to get the support to get this to not only pass the House, but273pass the Senate and become law. So, I am with you on both274issues and appreciate you coming here.275    Do any other Members wish to speak or ask questions to Ms.276Tlaib?277    [No response.]278    Chairman Comer. All right. Thank you. I now recognize279Representative David Taylor from Ohio.280281               STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID J. TAYLOR282283                    REPRESENTATIVE FROM OHIO284285    Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Chairman Comer and Ranking Member286Garcia, for giving me this opportunity to speak here today, and287thank you for the very hard work this Committee does. I288represent a very rural Appalachian district in Southern Ohio,289and I am here today to talk about two issues that directly290impact many throughout rural America: combating the fentanyl291epidemic and out-of-control Federal regulations.292    As you know, fentanyl is an extremely deadly substance that293affects all our districts. While I applaud the Trump294Administration's diligent work to secure our Southern border,295Congress needs to pass legislation to protect our communities296from illicit fentanyl that has already entered our country.297Thankfully, there are programs, such as the National High298Intensity Drug Trafficking Area Program, or HIDTA, that assist299Federal, state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies300operating critical drug trafficking regions across the United301States. With 33 HIDTA programs spanning across all 50 states,302this program works with communities to dismantle and disrupt303drug trafficking organizations, saving countless lives across304the United States.305    Last year alone, thanks to the hard work of our law306enforcement officers and the training provided, the HIDTA307program seized over 7,000 kilograms of fentanyl. That amount of308fentanyl could potentially kill 3.5 billion people, according309to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). The district I310represent has been ground zero for the fentanyl epidemic, and311this needs to change. With two HIDTA-designated counties in my312district, I was proud to introduce the Fight Fentanyl Act to313reauthorize to provide additional resources to the HIDTA314program. This bill would not only better equip our law315enforcement officers with the tools they need to seize more316illicit drugs, but it will also help keep our country and317communities safe. Additionally, my bill also allows the318Attorney General to allocate additional resources to319investigate and take drug traffickers and dealers to trial to320remove these destructive criminals from our communities.321    I want to thank our law enforcement officers who risk their322lives every day for their work to combat fentanyl, and our323HIDTA officers for the training and the work they do to keep324our communities safe. I also want to thank Congressman Levin325for co-leading the Fight Fentanyl Act with me, and I would love326to work with you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, to provide327our HIDTA program and law enforcement officers with the tools328they need to keep our community safe. I appreciate your329consideration of that issue.330    The other issue I came here to speak about and I hear about331from people across Southern Ohio is the overwhelming amount of332Federal regulations that hurt businesses, farmers, and increase333the cost of living for all of us. In my district, ridiculous334regulations led to the closing of several critical businesses,335including the coal plants, which provided affordable336electricity to an entire region. As a small business owner337myself, I know firsthand the impact that burdensome regulations338can have on an economy. That is exactly why the first bill I339introduced in Congress was the Regulation Decimation Act. This340bill, which codifies an executive order from President Trump,341would simply require agencies to find ten regulations to repeal342for every new one promulgated.343    The harsh reality is that no one even knows how many344Federal regulations there are. The best guess we have to go off345of is the number of pages in the Code of Federal Regulations,346which had roughly 23,000 pages in 1960 but is now up to nearly347200,000, which is approximately a 769-percent increase. This is348largely reflective of Congress slowly giving away all of its349authority to unelected bureaucrats within Federal agencies, and350we saw the impact of this during the Biden Administration with351their de facto electric vehicle mandate and the Waters of the352United States (WOTUS) Rule, which sought to punish nearly every353business and farmer in the country. This needs to change. We354cannot continue allowing such important decisions to be made by355those who can never be held accountable. I applaud President356Trump and his ten-to-one deregulatory agenda, and I am happy357the Supreme Court struck down the Chevron deference, but358Congress needs to act.359    Mr. Chairman, I am happy to collaborate with you on the360best ways to cut regulations and restore responsibility to361Congress to fulfill its constitutionally mandated duties. I362appreciate you letting me share my perspective today, and I am363looking forward to working with you on my bill and this issue.364Thank you guys, and I yield back.365    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Thank you for366your testimony today, and I was proud to sponsor the367reauthorization of the Office of National Drug Control Policy368last Congress, which passed the House in a bipartisan manner.369It went to the Senate, and my junior senator from Kentucky held370it up in the end and it did not become law, even though I think371there was overwhelming support in the Senate. So, that may be372someone you need to talk to about that, and that is where the373HIDTA funding comes through, the Office of National Drug374Control Policy. So, it is a big issue in my district. My law375enforcement officers support that as well, so we will work with376you to try to get that funded, but I think the problem is in377the Senate with that, so.378    So, do any other Members seek recognition?379    [No response.]380    Chairman Comer. Seeing none, thank you Representative381Taylor. I now recognize Representative McCormick from Georgia.382383              STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD MCCORMICK384385                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM GEORGIA386387    Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,388Ranking Member, for having me here today. This is an issue near389and dear to my heart, something I have come to your office for.390    Chairman Comer. Yes.391    Mr. McCormick. And I am happy to come to the Democrats for392the same reason. I think this could be a bipartisan solution.393We know what the problem is. Everybody is now recognizing that394paying $1 trillion of interest payment on basically $38395trillion of debt is unsustainable. As we continue to be396downgraded as a currency, we are going to end up being at about397$2 trillion, especially when we see Medicare and Social398Security, objectively, predictably becoming bankrupt probably399in the next presidency. This is an unfortunate byproduct of not400having the foresight to do something different than we normally401do. My bill is very simple. We know that we have had almost a40252-percent increase in Federal spending just since 2019. We403know that during that period, we have also had about an 86-404percent increase in deficit spending. We cannot continue doing405this. My bill is very succinct, very simple. As a matter of406fact, it has been reviewed by leadership as saying this sounds407too good to be true, that why haven't we done this sooner?408    Typically, in a budget, and I came up with this idea about40930 years ago when I was a logistics officer for my squadron and410realized at the end of my year, when I have ten percent in411reserve for my emergency spending, that all of a sudden I have412to spend a bunch of money. And we see this in the military, but413also through every bureaucracy in America where, if we do not414spend it, we lose it. Somebody else spends it anyways, and they415will actually reduce your budget because you obviously did not416need it. So, we all got in the habit of doing something we know417is wrong, we know is wasteful, and we know is built in by the418American Government to be wrong: we are spending money we do419not need to spend.420    My bill says instead of use it or lose it, which is what we421have now--a stick to do the wrong thing--instead, whatever you422do not spend for that year, 49 percent of that goes back toward423debt and deficit. Not to the Speaker, not to the President, not424to hire headquarters--debt and deficit, a real problem. Forty-425nine percent rolls forward to the next fiscal year. So, instead426of being penalized with a smaller budget, you actually get a427larger budget. And then two percent goes back to reward the428people who are being effective and efficient in that department429with bonuses up to ten percent of their salary as retention. It430is three carrots to do the right thing instead of two sticks to431do the wrong thing.432    I think this should be bipartisan--gentlemen, bipartisan--433that we can actually say this is entirely voluntary and non-434punitive. There is no downside for it. There is no way the435Congressional Budget Office (CBO) can score it wrong. I am a436big critic of the CBO. How could you do anything other than437save money on a voluntary basis? It gives you an option to not438be penalized, but to be rewarded for saving the American439taxpayer money, to save our children money on interest440payments. Why wouldn't we do something so common sense? Why441wouldn't this be bipartisan? Why wouldn't this be a good442solution? Can we not reinvent the way we look at government?443    I hope that everybody in both sides of the House can444actually get it behind this bill. It is called the Incentivize445Savings Act. I think it is going to be great for America. It is446going to be great in the way we approach government. I think it447will be great for approaching debt and deficit and responsible448thinking without having a DOGE stepping in and making the449decision for you. You are in charge of your own self-450determination of your department and what you save money on,451and you get rewarded for doing the right thing. Please, I452encourage you to all sign on to the Incentivize Savings Act. It453is the right thing to do, it is common sense, and I know it454sounds too good to be true, but it is not.455    My second piece of legislation, H.R. 6211, the Medical456Professional Access Act, which just simply allows people during457times of emergency, whether it be something catastrophic, a458hurricane or whatever, when you cross boundaries and state459lines--I am a physician--and you have credentialing issues460between states because that is what we do, but they are not461that much different from each other. And in times of emergency462where there is need, it is, basically, a Good Samaritan law463that says we do not have to go through another credentialing464process, that you are allowed to practice there during that465emergent time. If there is a declaration of emergency by that466Governor or by the President, you are allowed to practice there467without consequences, without review, because we do not have468time. This is just a commonsense approach to solving a very469real problem when you need people to help others in the470healthcare industry during an emergency.471    I highly encourage you also to sign on to H.R. 6211 in472order to help people in times of emergency. And with that,473gentlemen, I yield474    Chairman Comer. Thank you, again, for coming by the office475and explaining that. That sounds like common sense to me, and476we appreciate it and look forward to working with you in the477next year. Does any other Member seek recognition?478    [No response.]479    Chairman Comer. All right. We will suspend momentarily as480we move to the second panel.481    [Pause.]482    Chairman Comer. All right. We will now move to Panel Two.483Mr. Mfume may be en route. When he gets here, we will let him484participate, but I now recognize Representative Bill Foster485from Illinois.486487                 STATEMENT OF HON. BILL FOSTER488                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS489490    Mr. Foster. Thank you, Chairman Comer, Ranking Member491Garcia, and Members of the Committee. I am here today to492request your support for H.R. 6571, the Responsible and Ethical493AI Labeling Act--the REAL Act--which will require government494agencies and officers to include a disclaimer on public-facing495communications that are created or generated with artificial496intelligence. I am happy to introduce the commonsense497bipartisan bill with the support of your Chairman of Government498Operations Subcommittee, Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas. I499want to start by thanking Congressman Sessions for his500partnership on this important bill to strengthen trust and501accountability in government communications.502    In short, the REAL Act would require Federal agencies and503officers, from junior level staff to the very top, to clearly504label any official content distributed through official505channels that has been generated or manipulated using506generative artificial intelligence. Specifically, it would507require Federal agencies and officers to label AI-generated508images, audio, videos, and any AI generated texts that is not509reviewed by a human prior to publication. The Office of510Management and Budget would be tasked with developing uniform511rules for labeling AI content across the agencies to ensure512that labels are clear, prominently displayed, written in plain513language, easily understandable to the public. Each label would514clearly inform the reader that content was manipulated with AI515and include a brief description of how the content was changed516and which tools were used.517    This bill includes certain exemptions that are meant to518protect the internal use of low-impact AI tools by Federal519agencies and to protect personal communications of Federal520officers that are unrelated to their official responsibilities.521First, agencies will not be required to label AI content that522is circulated internally and not intended for public release.523Second, content that is created for classified purposes will524not require labeling. However, agencies will be required to525label classified content for any unclassified release of that526content. Third, the bill exempts basic graphics and visual527elements, such as text overlay or formatting, and minor visual528adjustments, such as brightness or cropping, if those529adjustments do not materially alter the meaning or context of530the underlying content. Fourth, the use of certain text531drafting tools is exempt as long as the content is reviewed for532accuracy and by human agency staff prior to publication. This533exemption is meant to preserve internal use of AI by agencies534while ensuring a robust review of AI content and requiring535labeling for automated messaging systems, like chatbots.536    Importantly, this bill does not apply to any of the bill's537requirements for public-facing content that is not related to538official duties of a Federal officer, as long as it is539published using a personal, non-government social media account540or other unofficial medium. This bill includes clear guidelines541to correct communications that fail to include the appropriate542disclaimer. If an agency determines or is found to have issued543a communication in violation of this act, that agency will be544required to retract the communication and publish a corrected545version of the communication on their website and, to the546extent possible, to the same audience that received the initial547communication. This bill also includes appropriate penalties548for noncompliance by agencies and contractors, including the549adoption of remediation plans or potential oversight by the550GAO.551    In an age of disinformation, Americans should be able to552trust that information coming from official government sources553is legitimate and based on reality. With rapid proliferation of554AI-generated content, there must be clear guidelines to ensure555that our Federal agencies are not using AI in a way that could556purposefully or inadvertently mislead the American public. This557legislation is about ensuring transparency and trust in Federal558communications. The REAL Act does not prohibit the use of AI or559the distribution of AI content. It simply requires official560channels to clearly indicate whether the content being shared561has been created or altered using AI.562    Well, thank you for holding this Member Day hearing, and I563thank, again, Congressman Sessions for co-leading this effort.564I encourage all Members of this Committee to support and565advance the REAL Act to ensure that AI tools are responsibly566used in government communications. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I567yield back.568    Chairman Comer. Thank you. Huge issue, and we certainly569look forward to working with you in the future on this issue.570    Any other Members seek recognition?571    [No response.]572    Chairman Comer. All right. Well, thank you very much.573    Mr. Foster. Thank you.574    Chairman Comer. That concludes our Member Day. In closing,575I want to thank the Members for their testimony. Would you like576to add anything?577    Mr. Garcia. No, I am good.578    Chairman Comer. With that, and without objection, all579Members have five legislative days within which to submit580additional testimony.581    If there is no further business, without objection, the582Committee stands adjourned.583    [Whereupon, at 9:28 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]584585                                 [all]