Stopping Illegal Robocalls and Robotexts: Progress, Challenges, and Next Steps

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34   AI IN THE EVERYDAY: CURRENT APPLICATIONS AND FUTURE FRONTIERS IN5                     COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY67=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND14                                 TECHNOLOGY1516                                 OF THE1718                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE19                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2021                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2223                             FIRST SESSION2425                               __________2627                              JUNE 4, 20252829                               __________3031                           Serial No. 119-233233[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3435     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce3637                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy38                        energycommerce.house.gov3940                                __________4142                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4360-730 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20254445-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4647                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE4849                        BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky50                                 Chairman51ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey52H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia           Ranking Member53GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado54RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina       JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois55EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    DORIS O. MATSUI, California56GARY J. PALMER, Alabama              KATHY CASTOR, Florida57NEAL P. DUNN, Florida                PAUL TONKO, New York58DAN CRENSHAW, Texas                  YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York59JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania, Vice       RAUL RUIZ, California60    Chairman                         SCOTT H. PETERS, California61RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas           DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan62RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               MARC A. VEASEY, Texas63TROY BALDERSON, Ohio                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois64RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California65AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                DARREN SOTO, Florida66DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee         KIM SCHRIER, Washington67MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts68KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas69JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York70JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts71CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana72ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey73RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          KEVIN MULLIN, California74LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio75NICHOLAS A. LANGWORTHY, New York     JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia76THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey77MICHAEL A. RULLI, Ohio78GABE EVANS, Colorado79CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas80JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota81                                 ------8283                           Professional Staff8485                     MEGAN JACKSON, Staff Director86                SOPHIE KHANAHMADI, Deputy Staff Director87               TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Minority Staff Director88             Subcommittee on Communications and Technology8990                     RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina91                                 Chairman92RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia, Vice         DORIS O. MATSUI, California93    Chairman                           Ranking Member94ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                DARREN SOTO, Florida95GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York96EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    RAUL RUIZ, California97NEAL P. DUNN, Florida                SCOTT H. PETERS, California98JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania             DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan99RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois100AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California101KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana102JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey103ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio104RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia105THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey      KATHY CASTOR, Florida106CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas              FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex107JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota            officio)108BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky (ex109    officio)110                             C O N T E N T S111112                              ----------113                                                                   Page114Hon. Richard Hudson, a Representative in Congress from the State115  of North Carolina, opening statement...........................     1116    Prepared statement...........................................     4117Hon. Doris O. Matsui, a Representative in Congress from the State118  of California, opening statement...............................     9119    Prepared statement...........................................    11120Hon. Brett Guthrie, a Representative in Congress from the121  Commonwealth of Kentucky, opening statement....................    13122    Prepared statement...........................................    15123Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the124  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    19125    Prepared statement...........................................    21126127                               Witnesses128129Charles W. ``Chip'' Pickering, Jr., Chief Executive Officer,130  INCOMPAS.......................................................    23131    Prepared statement...........................................    26132    Answers to submitted questions...............................   192133Ronnie Vasishta, Senior Vice President of Telecom, NVIDIA........    38134    Prepared statement...........................................    40135    Additional material submitted for the record.................    44136    Answers to submitted questions...............................   198137Jim Shea, Chief Executive Officer, DeepSig, Inc..................    54138    Prepared statement...........................................    56139    Answers to submitted questions...............................   201140Asad Ramzanali, Director of Artificial Intelligence and141  Technology Policy, Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator, Vanderbilt142  University.....................................................    60143    Prepared statement...........................................    62144    Answers to submitted questions...............................   203145146                           Submitted Material147148Inclusion of the following was approved by unanimous consent.149List of documents submitted for the record.......................   112150Report, ``AI for connectivity: how policy makers can help151  digitalisation,'' by Ian Adkins, et al., Analsys Mason, March152  2025\1\153Letter of May 21, 2025, from Adams County Regional Economic154  Partnership, et al., to Colorado congressional delegation......   114155Letter of June 3, 2025, from Sharon Wilson Geno, President,156  National Multifamily Housing Council, et al., to Mr. Hudson and157  Ms. Matsui.....................................................   116158Letter of June 3, 2025, from Patrick Halley, President and Chief159  Executive Officer, Wireless Infrastructure Association, to Mr.160  Hudson and Ms. Matsui..........................................   118161Statement by Matthew J. Platkin, Attorney General, State of New162  Jersey.........................................................   120163Statement of Krystal Rawls, Director, California State University164  Dominguez Hills Workforce Integration Network, June 4, 2025....   123165Article of May 15, 2025, ``The House Is Close To Passing a166  Moratorium on State Efforts To Regulate AI,'' by Adam Conner,167  Center for American Progress...................................   126168Letter of May 16, 2025, from the National Association of169  Attorneys General, to House Speaker Mike Johnson, et al........   132170171----------172173\1\ The report has been retained in committee files and is included in174the Documents for the Record at https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IF/175IF16/20250604/118333/HHRG-119-IF16-20250604-SD13189497.pdf.176Excerpt, ``Federal Preemption of State Law,'' Bipartisan House177  Task Force on Artificial Intelligence, December 2024...........   139178Letter from Community Innovation Partnership to Members of179  Congress.......................................................   142180Letter of June 4, 2025, from National Digital Inclusion Alliance181  to Mr. Guthrie, et al..........................................   143182Statement, ``Consumer Reports opposes AI state preemption183  language in House budget reconciliation bill''.................   151184Statement ofthe Council of State Governments, May 19, 2025.......   152185Statement, ``EPIC Opposes House Proposal to Ban States from186  Regulating AI''................................................   153187Statement, ``GOP Plan to Prevent AI Regulation Is Unhinged,188  Dangerous,'' Public Citizen....................................   154189Article of October 30, 2019, ``Not all robots take your job, some190  become your co-worker,'' by Aaron Klein, Brookings Institution.   155191Article of May 28, 2025, ``Behind the Curtain: A white-collar192  bloodbath,'' by Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen, Axios.............   160193Article of May 30, 2025, ``Trump Taps Palantir to Compile Data on194  Americans,'' by Sheera Frenkel and Aaron Krolik, New York Times   170195Letter of May 13, 2025, from Tim Storey, Executive Director,196  National Conference of State Legislatures, to Mr. Guthrie and197  Mr. Pallone....................................................   178198Statement, ``Open Markets Lambasts House Committee's Blank Check199  to Silicon Valley Oligarchs''..................................   180200Letter of May 13, 2025, from Encode, et al., to House Speaker201  Mike Johnson, et al............................................   182202Statement of Common Sense Media..................................   185203Article of May 20, 2025, ``Critical Questions for the House204  Hearing Examining a Federal Restriction on State AI Regulation,205  by Liana Keesing and Isabel Sunderland,'' Tech Policy Press....   186206207    AI IN THE EVERYDAY: CURRENT APPLICATIONS ANDFUTURE FRONTIERS IN208                     COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY209210                              ----------211212                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 4, 2025213214                  House of Representatives,215     Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,216                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,217                                                    Washington, DC.218    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:31 a.m., in219the John D. Dingell Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building,220Hon. Richard Hudson (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.221    Members present: Representatives Hudson, Allen, Latta,222Bilirakis, Carter of Georgia, Dunn, Joyce, Fulcher, Pfluger,223Cammack, Obernolte, Houchin, Fry, Kean, Goldman, Fedorchak,224Guthrie (ex officio), Matsui (subcommittee ranking member),225Soto, Clarke, Peters, Dingell, Kelly, Barragan, Menendez,226Landsman, McClellan, Castor, and Pallone (ex officio).227    Staff present: Jessica Donlon, General Counsel; Sydney228Greene, Director of Finance and Logistics; Kate Harper, Chief229Counsel, Communications and Technology; Megan Jackson, Staff230Director; Noah Jackson, Clerk, Communications and Technology;231Sophie Khanahmadi, Deputy Staff Director; Brayden Lacefield,232Special Assistant; John Lin, Senior Counsel, Communications and233Technology; Joel Miller, Chief Counsel; Elaina Murphy,234Professional Staff Member, Communications and Technology; Dylan235Rogers, Professional Staff Member, Communications and236Technology; Jackson Rudden, Staff Assistant; Chris Sarley,237Member Services/Stakeholder Director; Hannah Anton, Minority238Policy Analyst; Parul Desai, Minority Chief Counsel,239Communications and Technology; Tiffany Guarascio, Minority240Staff Director; La'Zale Johnson, Minority Intern; Dan Miller,241Minority Professional Staff Member; Mary Ann Rickles, Minority242Intern; Emma Roehrig, Minority Staff Assistant; Michael243Scurato, Minority FCC Detailee; Johanna Thomas, Minority244Counsel.245    Mr. Hudson. The subcommittee will come to order. The Chair246recognizes himself for an opening statement.247248 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD HUDSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN249           CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA250251    Good morning, and welcome to today's subcommittee hearing252on examining artificial intelligence and how it is being used253in communications, technology industries. AI is top of mind254right now, not just in this country but all over the globe. It255has been used in different industries for many years, but256recent advancements in large language models, machine learning,257and generative AI have pushed this technology into the258spotlight, capturing public attention and forever transforming259how we live and how we work.260    The applications for this new technology are widespread,261and we are continuing to find new ways that AI can be used to262benefit Americans' lives.263    Whether you know it or not, almost everyone uses AI in our264daily lives, like when you use ChatGPT to create a shopping265list, or ask Siri for directions. Or even more specifically,266when you called the ride share to get here this morning, it267uses AI to find the fastest route based on traffic patterns.268Your cell phone provider uses AI to reduce harmful spectrum269interference on your phone, ensuring there is no lapse in270service. The entertainment industry uses AI to predict what271types of content viewers may enjoy and drives decisions on when272that content should be produced. It is being used to develop273content and enhance the editing process. Our military uses AI274to enhance efficiency with encrypted communications and perfect275precision with drones, like we have seen in the war in Ukraine.276    Even the National Football League uses AI to create the277perfect schedule to limit unnecessary travel for players,278create an even playing field for teams, and maximize fan279accessibility for the biggest games.280    As demand for AI grows, we must consider what physical281infrastructure will be required to continue advanced AI282development.283    Storage capacity and energy consumption demands that data284centers are expected to skyrocket by 2030 due to increased AI285use. As data capacity increases, we will need robust fiber286optics and wireless connectivity to ensure powerful new AI287systems can reach their fullest potential and enable every288industry to grow.289    But the United States is not the only country developing290advanced AI. China recently released its DeepSeek AI model,291which showed their advancements. Our adversaries will stop at292nothing to undermine our leadership in technological293advancement and utilize AI to threaten our very way of life. We294must continue to innovate and develop to prevent that from295happening. Competition in AI is a global issue, and it is296imperative that the United States maintains its leadership.297    To do this, our country and Congress must encourage an298environment where AI companies can innovate, compete, and excel299on the global stage. Just like the light regulatory touch that300gave rise to the internet and some of the most successful and301cutting-edge companies on the planet, AI must be given the same302opportunity to ensure American companies set the standard for303the rest of the world.304    This is an exciting time, and an opportunity to talk about305these issues. Navigating these new and evolving technologies306will not be without its challenges, but it is our job to meet307them head on.308    Innovation has provided untold benefits to Americans and to309our economy. Today we will hear from our witnesses about how310artificial intelligence is being used across the communications311and technology industries, as well as what is required for the312United States to maintain its leadership in developing AI313models.314    I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today about315these issues and how Congress can stand ready as a partner.316    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hudson follows:]317    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]318319    Mr. Hudson. I now recognize the ranking member, the320gentlelady from California, for her opening statement.321322OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DORIS O. MATSUI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN323             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA324325    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.326    I am glad we are holding this hearing today, as327connectivity and artificial intelligence go hand in hand.328Already, AI is a part of everyday lives, from the improving GPS329driving directions to extending the battery life of our cell330phones and preventing network outages. As AI evolves, it will331transform how we communicate, improve network resiliency,332defending against cyber attacks, and supercharging connectivity333for consumers and businesses.334    To realize AI full potential and ensure AI benefits us all335and not just a few, we must act with urgency to close the336digital divide by investing in the infrastructure and skilled337workforce that underpins AI's success.338    Unfortunately, the Trump administration would rather pay339lip service to American AI leadership than act. The reality is340that they are undermining this exact goal by derailing our AI341supply chain with tariffs, gutting our AI talent pipeline by342attacking universities and slashing research dollars, and343weakening our AI infrastructure by freezing Federal344broadcasting funding.345    Universal connectivity is the building block for universal346AI access. This includes the fiber networks that provide347reliable, scalable, and high-speed connections for AI348applications to process large amounts of data. To achieve this,349we must act quickly and fully carry out our Federal broadband350programs to connect the tens of millions of Americans who still351lack access to high-speed internet.352    And that is why I am alarmed that the President continues353to sabotage the $42 billion Broadband Equity, Access, and354Deployment, or BEAD, Program.355    BEAD is a once-in-a-generation investment from Congress to356expand affordable broadband. States are at the 1-yard line357ready to reach the end zone and get shovels in the ground. But358for almost 6 months, the Trump administration has put BEAD on359ice, blocking our States from connecting more Americans, all360while threatening to waste even more time with rule changes361that would undo the work our States have already accomplished.362    To make matters worse, President Trump is weakening our AI363workforce through his cancellation of nearly $3 billion in364digital equity grants. Congress established these grants with365bipartisan support to provide communities with digital literacy366skills, training in technology, to reap the full benefits of367online access.368    President Trump's attack on digital equity funds, including369trying to cancel California's $70 million grant, is leaving370behind our most vulnerable communities, including rural371Americans, seniors, Americans with disabilities, and veterans.372    This is unacceptable. To be the global AI leader, America373also must lead on setting commonsense guardrails, responsible374and safe AI. Otherwise, it will harm innovation by damaging375consumer trust and weakening protections for a fair, open, and376competitive playing field for AI technologies flourish.377    I have long championed policies that advance U.S.378leadership in AI and other emerging technologies. This includes379strengthening AI infrastructure from fiber and wireless380connectivity to our semiconductor supply chain. I have also381worked to preserve our States' roles in laboratories of382democracy, to provide as critical insight on AI policies where383innovation and competition thrive alongside commonsense384safeguards.385    Now is the time to learn from our States and work on386bipartisan solutions to advance innovation and empower all387Americans to access the benefits of AI.388    And that is why the 10-year AI State moratorium that my389Republican colleagues jammed through in their reconciliation390bill is so misguided and dangerous. We can't afford a 10-year391hold on our States' ability to identify and protect the392American people from AI-specific harms, not when AI is393developing rapidly and spreading to all parts of our lives, and394especially not without strong Federal AI safe guardrails in395place.396    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how we397can strengthen our AI leadership. And with that, I yield the398balance of my time.399    [The prepared statement of Ms. Matsui follows:]400    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]401402    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.403    I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, the404gentleman from Kentucky, for 5 minutes for his opening405statement.406407 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRETT GUTHRIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN408           CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY409410    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Chairman Hudson, and thank you,411Ranking Member Matsui, for bringing us together for this412important hearing, and thank the witnesses for all of you for413being here and for your participation. I look forward to414hearing about all the ways the artificial intelligence is415currently being used and the promise that AI holds for the416future.417    AI is a top priority for the Energy and Commerce Committee418this year. Committee's jurisdiction covers almost every layer419of the AI tech stack, from energy needed to power massive420amounts of computing power, to the fiber optic cable and421wireless connections needed to move the data through422interconnected networks, to the data itself which underpins423innumerable lines of code that together form the modeling424needed to generate outputs for the consumer commercial425application of AI technologies.426    We started this Congress by holding multiple subcommittee427hearings related to AI regulation and used cases spanning all428the industries under this committee's jurisdiction, including429the committee's first full committee hearing on the existential430opportunities and risks of AI technology.431    Today's hearing will focus on AI and the communications and432technology sectors where we are committed to supporting the433development of this transformational technology and to ensuring434that American innovation continues to set the global standard435for advanced networking and connectivity.436    When ChatGPT came roaring into everyday life in 2022, it437provided a clearer, accessible example of the power of AI for438everyday consumer use. While it is a fantastic tool, it is only439one example of how AI can be used, and there are many ways that440AI technologies have been deployed over the last couple of441decades to support other applications.442    For example, some applications use AI technologies to443detect and prevent spam robocalls. So hearing that is going444up--that is why I wasn't here at the very beginning--two floors445above us. A lot of times when we go home, we come back--most446people around here say, ``What are you hearing back home?''447Well, I can tell you robocalls is one of the number-one448priorities--of everything going on in this Congress and this449country, robocalls are one--and spam is used to prevent--I mean450AI technology is used to prevent the spam robocalls.451    And there are other areas to implementing sophisticating452cyber security systems, to prevent secure--to prevent and453secure consumer data.454    Law enforcement officers and other first responders in the455field can utilize real-time language translation to help assist456people facing language barriers. Even today, music artist Randy457Travis is taking full advantage of AI. After suffering a stroke458that reduced his ability to sing and speak, he used AI tools to459recreate his own voice from his own recordings to continue460producing new music.461    I firmly believe that we are beginning to uncover the462possibilities that AI has to offer. America is uniquely463positioned to continue innovating as a global leader in this464sector. But this requires a commitment on our part. It is465vitally important that we hear from industry experts that is466enabled AI technology to develop rapidly and how we can allow467AI to continue to thrive in America while addressing potential468risk along the way.469    At the same time, our adversaries are also developing470cutting-edge AI technologies in an effort to capture global471technological dominance. We cannot allow countries that do not472share our values to lead in technology as important as this. As473I have said before, we do not secure--if we do not secure AI474leadership, China will fill the void.475    Europe is not going to fill the void. They made decisions476in their energy policy and their regulatory policy to eliminate477themselves from this transformational technology that improves478the quality of life of the people that live in our societies,479and we need to do it correctly. And if we cede development of480AI technologies to China, which as a nation, does not share the481same ethical values we do, we will also cede the ability to482shape future development of these technologies in a free and483democratic society.484    As such, it is important that we take a measured approach485and strike the right balance between facilitating innovation486and providing principled guardrails where needed to address487gaps in current law.488    As we have seen with Europe's approach, as I said, on489everything from energy production to data privacy, imposing490heavyhanded regulation of AI stifles innovation and stunts491economic growth.492    If we can get this right--and we have to do this together--493there is no limit to American innovation and artificial494intelligence or the benefits it will unlock for all Americans.495    I really appreciate our witnesses for being here. Mr.496Pickering, welcome back to Energy and Commerce Committee. I am497not sure there is any Member here on our side of the aisle that498served when you were here, but that wasn't that long ago. But499thank you for--maybe Mr. Latta might have served at the same500time you did. But anyway, we really appreciate you being here501and all of you being here, and we look forward to your502testimony. And I yield back.503    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guthrie follows:]504    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]505506    Mr. Hudson. Thank you, Chairman.507    I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, the ranking508member, for 5 minutes for his opening statement.509510OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE511            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY512513    Mr. Pallone. You notice, Chip, that he said only there may514not be a Republican, but definitely is a Democrat: me. But in515any case.516    We have now had numerous hearings this Congress on517artificial intelligence, and we have heard about the benefits518and risks of AI. And while we continue to hold hearings and519debate the need to adopt commonsense guardrails to protect520consumers from bad actors using AI, some States have already521moved forward and adopted these laws providing basic consumer522protections from the negative consequences of some uses of AI.523    But instead of learning from what the States are doing,524House Republicans last month passed a 10-year ban on a State's525ability to enforce their own laws protecting consumers from526AI's harms. And this provision, which was included in the527budget reconciliation, is nothing more than a giant gift to Big528Tech. And I hope--you know, we are working to see if we can get529the Senate parliamentarian to rule this out of order under the530so-called ``bird bath,'' but that is not because of the531Republicans' efforts. It is because of the Democrats' efforts.532    The problem is this provision would block enforcement of533laws on the books right now that are protecting consumers from534real-world harms. Some States have laws requiring companies to535disclose when they are using AI. Others have laws protecting536against the use of deepfakes in elections and protecting537consumers when AI is used in healthcare, education, housing,538and employment.539    Now, Republicans want to ban the enforcement of all these540State laws with absolutely no national bill ready to go to541address these concerns. Instead of enriching Big Tech, we542should be working toward strong Federal legislation to govern543and guide the development of these powerful AI systems which544are rapidly being incorporated into more and more aspects of545our everyday lives.546    The Trump administration also continues to undermine our547progress in building the connectivity infrastructure needed to548power the AI models of today and tomorrow. For no good reason,549the administration continues to stand still in rolling out one550of the key demands of AI: that is fiber. Broadband programs551designed to bring high-capacity fiber to both data centers and552our homes are critical if America wants to continue to lead the553world in AI.554    Any delays in connecting every home and business to555reliable high-speed internet only benefits our foreign556adversaries. America's strength comes from our ability to build557and deploy the most advanced technology here and then share it558with the rest of the world.559    But this can't happen if everyone in America does not have560high-speed internet access. And I therefore urge the Trump561administration to get out of its own way and let the Bipartisan562Infrastructure Law's $42 billion BEAD Program move forward as563intended, letting the States deploy networks that are fast,564reliable, and can meet the technological demands for decades to565come.566    Now, I also have to acknowledge that simply bringing the567internet to American homes will not allow us to lead the world568in AI. To complete the task, Americans need to understand how569to use AI. That is why House Democrats voted to include the570Digital Equity Act as part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure571Law. This Act funds programs that can help seniors, veterans,572the disabled, and others learn the skills needed to fully573participate in our digital economy.574    Yet in the last couple of weeks, President Trump575unilaterally and illegally, in my opinion, decided to stop the576funding to these programs, falsely claiming that they are577racist. I can't stress, teaching grandparents and veterans, the578disabled how to use AI as well as protect themselves from scams579and scheduling doctor appointments and applying for jobs online580has nothing to do with race.581    The Digital Equity Act recognizes the digital divide, and582it is not--it is not a racial divide. I mean, there is an583element of a racial divide, certainly, but it is because there584is so many people who are seniors and veterans and disabled,585regardless of their race or ethnicity, that need to know how to586use it. And it has nothing to do with race. And it is just587unfortunate that the administration is doing this.588    Last thing I wanted to say, Mr. Chairman, is while we still589need guardrails to govern and guide the development of AI,590there is no question that AI has the potential to advance how591our communications networks serve the public. For instance, AI592models can be deployed in our networks to help enhance593resiliency and reliability so that when natural disasters hit594or other life-threatening events occur, Americans can rapidly595assess the damage and quickly get the help they need. And that596is why it is crucial that we fund the deployment of Next597Generation 911 across the country.598    Again, it is a shame that the House Republicans want to use599spectrum auction proceeds to fund this giant tax giveaway for600billionaires and B corporations instead of helping fund Next601Generation 911, which is obviously what I have been pleading602all along. That is what we should be using that 80--$8 billion603in spectrum auction, and not to pay for the--well, you call604it--what do you call it? The Big Beautiful Bill. I call it the605Big Ugly Bill.606    And with that, I yield back the balance of my time. Thank607you, Mr. Chairman.608    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]609   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]610611    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.612    We have now concluded with Member opening statements. The613Chair reminds Members that, pursuant to the committee rules,614all Members' opening statements will be made part of the615record.616    We would like to thank our witnesses for being here today617to testify before the subcommittee. Our witnesses will have 5618minutes to provide an opening statement, which will be followed619by a round of questions by Members.620    The witnesses here before us today are Chip Pickering,621chief executive officer of INCOMPAS, and former member of this622committee, as has been noted. Welcome back.623    Ronnie Vasishta, senior vice president of telecom for624NVIDIA. Thank you for being here.625    Jim Shea, chief executive officer for DeepSig,626Incorporated. Thank you, sir.627    And Asad Ramzanali, director of AI and technology policy,628Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator at Vanderbilt University. I629believe you have been in this room before too. Glad to have you630back. Thank you.631    Mr. Pickering, you are recognized for 5 minutes for an632opening statement.633634    STATEMENTS OF CHARLES W. ``CHIP'' PICKERING, Jr,, CHIEF635   EXECUTIVE OFFICER, INCOMPAS; RONNIE VASISHTA, SENIOR VICE636    PRESIDENT OF TELECOM, NVIDIA; JIM SHEA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE637OFFICER, DEEPSIG, INC.; ASAD RAMZANALI, DIRECTOR OF ARTIFICIAL638     INTELLIGENCE AND TECHNOLOGY POLICY, VANDERBILT POLICY639               ACCELERATOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY640641        STATEMENT OF CHARLES W. ``CHIP'' PICKERING, Jr,642643    Mr. Pickering. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Matsui,644Chairman Guthrie, all the Members on the committee, it is great645to be back to what I consider my home, where I served for 10646years on the Energy and Commerce Committee. I love this647committee. I love and respect deeply the role that it plays in648this institution and in setting the policies, the critical649policies, of this country.650    I am the CEO of INCOMPAS. And to talk a little bit about651who we are and who I represent, we are the founding voice of652competition in network policy. We advocated over 40 years ago653for the breakup of the AT&T monopoly system, bringing the first654competition to the telecommunication networks and then, as we655went into the 1990s and into the current age, competition656across all networks and the internet.657    And today, we have assembled something that is different658than and unique from all other associations in our space. We659now have members that are new energy companies, new SMR nuclear660fusion companies, traditional gas and gas pipeline transmission661and grid companies that are on one side of the data center. And662we have all the stack of data centers from small to regional to663hyper scale. And then we have all of the broadband networks664from fiber to fixed to wireless to satellite LEO systems.665    And then on the other side of the market, we have all of666the leading American technology companies, but we also have the667new entrants, the new startups, the innovators, the668entrepreneurs that are creating the new AI models. So both on669the model side and on the what we now call AI infrastructure on670both sides of the data center.671    And we think that makes us uniquely credible. To be honest,672we try to create a membership that matches your jurisdiction.673You are the only committee in all of Congress that is on both674sides of the data center and has the jurisdiction on all of the675major elements and questions of AI policy.676    And you have a serious obligation and responsibility to get677this right. We are now in a race against China to win the678future of an AI economy, an AI-driven national security and679cybersecurity, and we need a national framework of AI policy on680each of the major questions to win that race.681    So today I would--I want to start a conversation of how do682we do that? And how do we win that race? And there are two683major objectives: one is to maximize competition among all684models because, as you maximize competition, you get the685greatest investment and the greatest innovation. In this race,686unlike what we faced in the World War II and the nuclear race687and in the Cold War, the space race--those were Federal688Government-funded initiatives.689    The AI race is primarily funded by the private sector and690private actors. So what we need to do is give the691predictability and the certainty of a national framework so692that the investments made to win that race will be made without693a patchwork of unpredictability and uncertainty.694    We need to be able to build--this is the time to build the695infrastructure of a new age that will bring back American696manufacturing and bring enormous benefits in every sector of697our economy and for the healthcare, education, and workforce of698our country. And to do that, we need to build as fast as699possible. We need bipartisan permitting reform to clear the700obstacles that delay and cost our companies who are building--701fiber, wireless, satellite companies who are building the data702centers and are building the new energy and the new energy703supply and the transmission and grid that we need to power AI.704    So I fully support the speed to BEAD, and the need to get705the shovels in the ground to build the broadband networks.706    We need to infuse, through spectrum auction authority, new707spectrum into the marketplace. We need to do everything that we708can to close the digital divide. And so, Congressman Joyce, and709working on a bipartisan basis--how do we build fiber networks710across the railroad so that we can close the digital divide711without the railroad industry holding us up, delaying us, and712charging exorbitant prices?713    It is critical that--in most communities, that you have to714still cross the tracks to reach the full community and to close715the digital divide.716    In the Senate, there is a piece of legislation that makes717sure that BEAD is not taxed, so we don't need to tax the718broadband grants and defeat the purpose of the deployments to719every corner of the country.720    Finally, INCOMPAS fully supports the effort of this721committee in creating a national framework to have a pause or722temporary moratorium that would give you the time that you need723to form a national framework around all AI issues. I want to724commend Congressman Obernolte and Congressman Lieu and the725bipartisan workforce that has created a set of recommendations726and one of the most extensive reports in Congress and the727leadership on a bipartisan basis. The moratorium is simply a728means that we don't have 1,000 State actions that could slow,729delay the investments we need on both sides of the data centers730and the full models and the full stack of the AI ecosystem.731    This committee has had a rich history, from 1934, of732bringing telephone service to every American, electricity to733every American, and internet infrastructure, internet age.734Every time, it was this committee in this room that made those735policies. And we need this committee, under present bipartisan736leadership, to find a way to create the national framework so737that we win the race and bring all the benefits and secure our738national security and America's future. And I look forward to739working with everyone to that purpose and to that end.740    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pickering follows:]741   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]742743    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.744    Mr. Pickering. Thank you.745    Mr. Hudson. Mr. Vasishta, you are recognized for 5 minutes746for an opening statement.747748                  STATEMENT OF RONNIE VASISHTA749750    Mr. Vasishta. Thank you very much.751    Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member Matsui, thank you for--and752members of the subcommittee, thank you very much for the753invitation to speak to you today.754    As said, my name is Ronnie Vasishta, and I am senior vice755president of telecom at NVIDIA.756    NVIDIA, as you may know, is an American full stack757accelerated computing company, proud to be helping drive758American technology leadership globally. We have spent over759three decades inventing the technology that powers modern AI.760As you have heard from the Members' opening statements today,761AI is not just another app or algorithm. It is the engine762behind a new industrial revolution. And just like the roads and763electric grids of the past, the countries that build AI764infrastructure will reap the rewards of this next era.765    At this critical point in time, there is also the need to766redefine the telecommunications infrastructure around the world767as well by leveraging AI. The convergence between AI and768telecoms presents an unprecedented opportunity for renewed U.S.769leadership globally.770    But we must act quickly. Over the last few decades, the771telecom industry has evolved through generations of standards772known as 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G. And the industry is now working, as773you may suspect, on 6G, with a target completion date of 2030.774    Now, while 2030 might sound like a long time to go, we are775actually--already the train has left the station, and we are776losing time.777    The early deployments of 6G may start as early as 2028.778What is already clear is that whoever seizes the advantage in779the development and the deployment of AI-native 6G will win the7806G race.781    The United States invented the foundational cellular782wireless technology, but today there are no--there are no783American wireless equipment providers. Now is the time to act784to regain the U.S. leadership in 6G.785    And AI offers a number of advantages for the wireless786industry. First, AI can be applied to network operations to787increase energy efficiency, to enhance security, to improve788network resiliency, and, very importantly, increase spectral789efficiency.790    Second, future networks will additionally support an791entirely new kind of traffic, not just voice, video, and data,792but AI traffic, the control and connectivity autonomous793vehicles, smart glasses, robotics, and many more applications794that we have yet to think of.795    Third, putting wireless processing and AI on the same796infrastructure--that has never been done before--will enable797new economic opportunities for telecos.798    AI networks need to be software-defined. This will enable799the same infrastructure to underpin both the telecommunications800infrastructure and the AI infrastructure. New features and801generations and new standards of wireless--think of this--will802be software updates rather than the requirement to completely803overhaul telecom infrastructure.804    And fourth, AI will enable enhanced cybersecurity for805telecom networks. AI is essential for real-time threat806detection and automated remediation and incident response, as807we have heard.808    AI can process massive data streams, can quickly identify809and neutralize attacks, whether they are occurring on a device810or at the network edge or in the cloud. This convergence of AI811and wireless infrastructure will fundamentally reshape the812global telecommunications landscape.813    NVIDIA is working closely and actively with partners across814industry and academia to provide the tools and platforms and to815drive American innovation for this global ecosystem. Just for816an example, in the last couple of days we have been here with817other members of the AI WIN Project, which was announced in818just March of this year. Booz Allen Hamilton, Cisco, Mitre, the819ORAN Development Company, and T-Mobile were all working820together to enable this U.S. leadership. This project will821deliver American AI-native full stack software defined and822secure wireless platform that will enable that U.S. leadership823in 6G.824    But ensuring U.S. leadership in next-generation wireless825networks requires industry and public sector to work together.826Congress and the U.S. Government can help ensure this827leadership by supporting R&D and continued innovation, by828working with U.S. companies together as we set and place our829requirements into universal global standards, and enabling and830promoting U.S. companies to win at every layer of the AI831infrastructure stack.832    I am confident that together we can maintain U.S.833leadership in AI and regain leadership in wireless834communications through the development and global deployment of835AI-native wireless telecommunications networks.836    Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to you837today, and I look forward to all your questions.838    [The prepared statement of Mr. Vasishta follows:]839   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]840841    Mr. Hudson. Thank you very much.842    Mr. Shea, you are recognized for 5 minutes.843844                     STATEMENT OF JIM SHEA845846    Mr. Shea. Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member Matsui, and847members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to848be with you and testify today.849    I am Jim Shea, CEO of DeepSig, a small business bringing850artificial intelligence software for wireless communications851and sensing to market. Today, I will outline how AI is852transforming 5G, enabling superior spectrum management, and853providing essential capabilities for national defense and854everyday applications.855    DeepSig, Inc., headquartered in Arlington, Virginia, was856founded in 2016 by me and Dr. Tim O'Shea to evolve and bring to857market AI wireless technology that Tim developed at Virginia858Tech. The company's 48 employees are focused on delivering AI859sensing and communications software to meet commercial and860defense needs.861    Working with partners such as Intel, NVIDIA, and Qualcomm,862DeepSig's AI-based OmniPHY software replaces traditional863wireless processing algorithms with AI and 5G systems.864    When you make a call, the signal from your mobile travels865to a base station, often reflecting off of multiple buildings866and obstacles while competing with interfering signals.867Traditional wireless algorithms employ a simplified one-size-868fits-all approach to pull signals out of noise. AI, on the869other hand, can learn the local wireless environment by870monitoring received signals to rapidly develop AI models that871better sort signals from noise and impairments, dramatically872improving spectrum efficiency and reducing dropped calls.873    This breakthrough extends to 5G massive MIMO technology,874flight panel antennas that focus wireless signals at individual875users. Traditional massive MIMO algorithms use a library of876fixed antenna beams, but AI can learn the best beam shapes and877directions for each user to optimize performance and the user878experience.879    Taken together, these and other AI technologies are880referred to as AI, wireless, native wireless. AI-native is seen881as a key enabling capability in 6G as it evolves through the882standardization process.883    U.S. leadership in AI-native, coupled with Open RAN Access,884ORAN, that replaces custom hardware with commodity servers,885will dramatically reduce costs and offer a path to compete with886Huawei and other concerning network vendors.887    AI is enabling rapid sensing of the wireless environment.888Traditional sensing approaches are painfully slow and require889significant analysis by skilled engineers and weeks or months890of effort to develop new code when new signals are encountered.891    DeepSig's OmniSIG AI sensing software has been trained to892detect, classify, and locate nearly all types of signals893ranging from narrow-band handheld radios to wide-band radars,894often up to 1,000 times faster than traditional approaches.895Like other AI systems, OmniSIG can learn new signals in a896matter of hours after being presented with new signal data.897    Exponentially increasing mobile data needs for consumers,898industrial, and defense applications require more wireless899spectrum. Sharing with DoD and other incumbent users is under900study, but only on a limited basis. The CBRS band shares901spectrum with U.S. Navy ship-based radars. However, new902proposed bands have incumbent ground and airborne users that903move far faster than ocean-based ships. With the integration of904AI, rapid detection can inform commercial networks to vacate or905steer wireless beams away from the incumbent user.906    Another important application involves addressing wireless907intrusion and base station spoofing. Persistent and growing908threats concern both network owners and the government due to909their increasing scale and sophistication. By continuous910monitoring of the spectrum, AI can detect fake base stations911such as those discovered last month in Turkey that were912covertly transmitting information about local leader population913back to China.914    Finally, as we have seen in Ukraine, spectrum sensing and915other electronic warfare are capabilities where the U.S. must916regain leadership to protect our forces. Adversaries917continually change their signals and can only be countered by918timely detection. The ability to quickly learn new signals is919paramount to ensure our defense systems can quickly respond to920threats. Small, innovative businesses such as DeepSig deliver921off-the-shelf AI software, accelerating the likes of Anduril,922CACI, Lockheed Martin, and other partners, giving them the923ability to respond to rapidly changing threats.924    Leadership in AI-native and wireless sensing technologies925offers the U.S. a path to reclaim global leadership in mobile926wireless technology. A special thank you to this committee for927your leadership and helping the NTIA Public Wireless Supply928Chain Innovation Fund become a reality. DeepSig has been929honored to receive three grants in partnership with Airspan,930Qualcomm, and Fujitsu, and is rapidly advancing our AI software931into 5G and 6G to take part in the resurgence of U.S. wireless932leadership.933    The convergence of AI wireless represents a transformative934moment. The United States has been the innovative ecosystem,935talent, and industrial partnerships necessary to lead this936transformation. Working together, American industry and937government can ensure that the next generation of wireless938infrastructure and sensing technology is made in America.939    Thank you for providing me the opportunity to testify, and940I would be happy to answer any questions that the committee941members may have. Thank you.942    [The prepared statement of Mr. Shea follows:]943   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]944945    Mr. Hudson. Thank you. Very well said and on time.946    Mr. Ramzanali, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your947opening statement.948949                  STATEMENT OF ASAD RAMZANALI950951    Mr. Ramzanali. Chairmen Guthrie and Hudson, Ranking Members952Pallone and Matsui, members of the subcommittee, thank you for953holding this important hearing and having me back to this room.954    My name is Asad Ramzanali, and I am the director of AI and955tech policy at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator. I previously956worked in the tech industry and in government, including for a957member of this subcommittee. My testimony reflects my own views958and does not represent Vanderbilt or anybody else.959    Today I will speak to three things: First, I will share a960framework for analyzing the whole picture of AI. Then I will961describe how to achieve long-term American leadership in AI.962And finally, I will describe this committee's history in963enacting guardrails to mitigate real harms from powerful964technologies.965    To understand AI, many use the framework of a technological966stack. My written testimony illustrates one version of that967with four layers on how AI is used and developed. It is968applications, models, cloud computing, and chips.969    Let me go through that. Applications, like chat bots, are970what you use. They sit atop models which are large pieces of971software that operate in cloud computing data centers that are972full of chips, often specialized for AI.973    Of interest to this subcommittee, those data centers are974connected to high-capacity fiber. This framework helps975illustrate that each layer has distinct features and can be976analyzed for its distinct policy questions and has known policy977solutions.978    Second. American leadership in AI is critical to our979geopolitical competition with the People's Republic of China.980Many interpret this to mean building larger versions of today's981AI models. However, just building larger data sets for today's982AI models will not yield a lasting national advantage. For983long-term American leadership in AI, we should pursue a984strategy based on our historic technological advantages, like985public investment in R&D, supporting startups, enabling all986Americans to benefit from technology, and mitigating its harms.987    I detail these in my written testimony, but I will focus on988the latter two for now.989    This subcommittee has led the charge to increased broadband990access and adoption. Put simply, America can't truly lead in AI991if not all Americans can benefit from AI. The bipartisan BEAD992and Digital Equity Programs are critical to closing the digital993divide, and they should get back on track.994    Next, this committee should continue its tradition of995encouraging powerful technologies while mitigating real-world996harms through bipartisan legislation. During the second997industrial revolution, at the end of the 19th century, society998faced a different powerful technology. It was that of999railroads. Chairman Hudson, you know that Franklin, Virginia,1000had its beginnings as a rail stop. Ranking Member Matsui, you1001know that Sacramento was the terminus for the Transcontinental1002Railroad. Farmers, however, got the short end of the stick for1003a long time. Railroads charged farmers more for their short-1004haul shipments than they charged large companies to ship across1005the country. So States stepped in and they passed laws to ban1006this kind of price discrimination. These laws didn't stop1007industrialization or slow the technology. They mitigated a1008real-world harm.1009    Based on State laws, Congress later stepped in to enact1010these kinds of protections nationally. Specifically, your1011predecessors on this committee passed bipartisan laws, like the1012Hepburn Act, named for the former chair of this committee, to1013require fair terms for farmers, price transparency for small1014businesses, and an end to vertical integration that harms1015competition. I tell this story to illustrate that State and1016Federal laws can encourage positive aspects of a powerful1017technology while mitigating its harms.1018    Just as they did with railroads, States today are leading1019the charge to mitigate the harms of AI. For railroads, Congress1020passed Federal laws commensurate with State protections. On AI,1021the House passed a 10-year moratorium on State guardrails. This1022is a different path representing a major policy shift in AI and1023from how powerful technologies have been regulated in the past.1024This moratorium would wipe away real guardrails protecting real1025people and strip millions of Americans of rights promised to1026them by their State lawmakers without commensurate Federal1027protections.1028    This doesn't mean Congress shouldn't act on AI. As I said1029earlier, investing in R&D, supporting startups, those are1030necessary. The bipartisan House framework that Mr. Obernolte1031and others have put together has a lot of really good ideas for1032policy.1033    This committee should also reinvigorate bipartisan efforts1034on privacy and to protect kids and work with the administration1035on advancing BEAD and Digital Equity Programs.1036    In closing, thank you for inviting me to be here with you1037today, and I look forward to your questions.1038    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ramzanali follows:]1039   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]10401041    Mr. Hudson. Thank you very much.1042    We will now begin the questioning, and I will recognize1043myself for 5 minutes.1044    Mr. Pickering, while advancement of AI has so much1045potential to improve efficiencies across many industries, it1046can also be used maliciously and cause serious damage. While we1047have seen a few instances of placing measured safeguards on1048certain uses of AI, we must balance any regulation with1049enabling innovation.1050    Can you also give us an example of how Europe has inhibited1051industry from advancing AI due to their overbearing1052regulations?1053    Mr. Pickering. Now, if you look at the European model,1054which has shifted a lot of the AI investment to America and1055given us a comparative competitive advantage, it doesn't1056allow--it is more of a permission-based system versus a risk-1057based system. And I think America should continue its tradition1058of light-touch, risk-based rules and regulations at a national1059level on something of a national priority that needs a national1060framework.1061    And so if you look at how we have done in the internet age,1062setting a national framework that allowed full competition of1063open internet that--whether you are a small business or a large1064business, you can have equal access to the internet--the same1065is going to be true on the AI models. From open-sourced to1066closed and proprietary, if you have a gatekeeper that is going1067to check whether a new entrant that will be punished the most1068from a regulatory framework of a European-type model, the large1069tech companies will be uniquely positioned and the resources to1070manage the complexity of whether it is 50 States or one1071regulatory framework that would be modeled after that--our1072approach, I think, is the best, which is maximizing1073competition, not regulating in a way that slows innovation, the1074investment in the private sector, and letting all models1075compete against each other as quickly as possible.1076    And if we do that, we will be successful. And so thank you1077for the question.1078    Mr. Hudson. That makes a lot of sense.1079    Now, so one of our concerns is having a patchwork of State1080regulations. You mentioned this in your testimony. Are you1081familiar with Colorado and kind of what is going on with their1082State regulations?1083    Mr. Pickering. Yes. And the former member of this1084committee, Congressman Polis, has raised concerns and1085objections about what his State law and legislature has done1086that really could stifle investment in the Colorado economy and1087investment in what the AI economy means.1088    So whether it is Colorado--there have been--and Congressman1089Obernolte brought this up in the reconciliation markup--1,0001090different pieces of legislation across the 50 States1091introduced. If you go back to this committee's history, it did1092The Cable Act in 1992, the wireless spectrum auctions in 1993,1093The Telecommunications Act of 1996, the commercialization of1094the internet, privacy, COPA, copyright privacy, internet tax1095moratorium. So every category of the internet regulatory1096framework, it was done in this committee. It was done by this1097leadership on a bipartisan basis.1098    And that is what we need today if we are going to win the1099race. We cannot afford the delay and the unpredictability of a1100patchwork approach when we need--just like in the Cold War and1101the nuclear race in World War II, we need a national urgency of1102getting a framework in place. And again, I go back to1103Congressmen Obernolte and Lieu and the leadership. There is1104enough bipartisan commitment and consensus on this issue.1105There's a lot of issues to fight over in the country and in1106Congress, but on--AI policy is a place where we can find common1107ground and a sustainable policy that is of national urgency and1108imperative.1109    Mr. Hudson. I agree with you. I think this committee is1110prepared to work in a bipartisan way to address this.1111    What advice would you give us, though, to make sure that1112any regulations we do are reasonable and they don't stifle1113innovation?1114    Mr. Pickering. You know, the market of maximum competition1115has worked in every decade. So if you think through Ronald1116Reagan's breakup of the AT&T system in 1982, and then you had1117long-distance competition that replaced copper analog networks1118with fiber digital networks. Then this committee passed The1119Cable Act, which brought cable and satellite into competition1120with one another. One was digital, one was analog. The1121competition made both of them build out the last mile of1122infrastructure that allowed the internet to be commercialized1123and reach every American. The 1996 act, full competition of all1124networks of everyone competing against each other with1125interconnected, interoperable networks and devices, works.1126    So the only recommendation that I would give to this1127committee is, whatever you do, use maximum competition to1128achieve your objective. And that is the best way to regulate1129the market and to give consumer protection, and also to give1130you the innovation at this table for national security,1131cybersecurity, health, education, workforce solutions.1132    Mr. Hudson. Right. Thank you for that. My time has expired.1133    I will now recognize the ranking member, Representative1134Matsui, for 5 minutes for your questions.1135    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1136    Our State and local governments are on the front lines of1137leveraging the benefits of AI while protecting consumers from1138AI-specific harms and ensuring workforce protections keep pace1139with rapid technological change. As home to 32 of the world's114050 leading AI companies, California is a national leader in1141ensuring that innovation and competition thrive alongside1142commonsense safeguards.1143    Mr. Ramzanali, how would the 10-year AI State moratorium,1144as passed by the House Republicans, impact U.S. AI innovation1145and protections from millions of Americans?1146    Mr. Ramzanali. Thank you for that question, Madam Ranking1147Member. And I think your State of California has done great1148work, as you said, both on encouraging innovation and also1149mitigating its risks.1150    The way I like to think about it at the most simple level1151is responsible innovation shouldn't be afraid of laws that go1152after responsible practices. The kinds of State laws that have1153been passed go after deepfakes. They go after scams. There is a1154lot that require transparency as well. But that is how we know1155when issues pop up.1156    So, to me, there is a great way to do responsible1157innovation while also mitigating harms.1158    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much. I always hear about--I1159hear about moratorium and I hear about competition and1160innovation. They don't go together at all, as far as I am1161concerned. And so those are two sides of it that we have to1162really deal with, and I am sure that this conversation will1163take place on this subcommittee.1164    To lead the world in AI, America needs fast, reliable, and1165futureproof networks to power AI-driven data centers, networks,1166and homes.1167    Mr. Pickering, you mentioned the need to expand fiber1168networks to reach rural and underserved communities at risk1169being left behind in the AI economy. Why is this so critical1170for AI innovation?1171    Mr. Pickering. So the connectivity to every American gives1172the greatest opportunity for every American and to every small1173business, every community. It doesn't matter if it is my home1174State of Mississippi, which is primarily rural, or your1175district, which is urban. Connectivity, in today's world, is1176employment. It is opportunity. It is the greatest way to get1177both the opportunity that America has to offer--the education,1178the workforce, the healthcare--and so being able to have1179universal access to the fastest, highest-capacity networks, it1180is a national commitment that members of this committee and1181Congress made coming out of the pandemic.1182    Ms. Matsui. Absolutely.1183    Mr. Pickering. We kept all Americans connected during the1184pandemic, and from that a commitment to bring broadband to1185every community--1186    Ms. Matsui. To every household in America. Right.1187    Mr. Pickering. And I agree with you. We need to speed BEAD.1188I agree with Chairman Hudson.1189    Ms. Matsui. Right.1190    Mr. Pickering. We need to give clear guidelines, cut the1191red tape, get shovels in the ground, and----1192    Ms. Matsui. There are States waiting right now, ready to1193go.1194    Mr. Pickering. Yes.1195    Ms. Matsui. So I think we need to move forward.1196    I work hard to advance policies that support the1197development and deployment of open radio access networks--or as1198we call it, ORAN--including NTIs helping Wireless Supply Chain1199Innovation Fund under the CHIPS and Science Act. Open RAN1200increases supply chain diversity, which has significant1201economic and national security benefits.1202    Mr. Vasishta--right? And Mr. Shea--how do technologies like1203Open RAN help us leverage AI technologies for next-generation1204connectivity and maintain U.S. technological leadership?1205    Mr. Vasishta. Thanks for the question. Maybe I will take it1206up first.1207    So, as you quite rightly said, Open RAN was enabling1208interoperability in a system that was traditionally propriety1209in a closed system. What Open RAN was able to do, by enabling1210that interoperability, was enable new players to come into the1211industry as well as enable some of the interfaces to be more1212openly developed.1213    What we need to do now is really kind of accelerate Open1214RAN and make Open RAN competitive. One of the challenges also1215around Open RAN was the competitiveness of that compared to the1216proprietary systems. And so that first step that was made with1217Open RAN now, with what is called AI RAN----1218    Ms. Matsui. Right.1219    Mr. Vasishta [continuing]. Which is including AI into those1220open standards as well, and enabling the network to become1221software defined--so you are completely writing new features1222and capabilities in software. You can now open up that1223ecosystem still further as well as create more competition in1224that ecosystem, while at the same time taking advantage of AI1225to improve the spectral efficiency and operational efficiency.1226    Ms. Matsui. OK. Thank you.1227    And I want to ask Mr. Shea to----1228    Mr. Shea. ORAN enabled our business in 5G and 6G. You know,1229when we first started the company, we traveled around to many1230of the vendors and we had great conversations, but they didn't1231want to give us any access to their code. With ORAN, working1232with initially Intel and now NVIDIA, we are able to actually1233build operating 5G base stations. In fact, our headquarters in1234Arlington, Virginia--we have two operating 5G base stations1235that are built based upon ORAN and are enabled with our AI1236technology, something that we couldn't have done previously1237with closed systems.1238    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much. My time has run out. Thank1239you.1240    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.1241    The Chair now recognizes chairman of the full committee,1242Mr. Guthrie, for 5 minutes----1243    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. Thank you. And the ranking member1244and I have been partners in spectrum, and--I am over here on1245this far end--spectrum and other things, and she just asked the1246first question I was going to ask. So we think alike. And there1247is a lot of cooperation on both sides of the aisle in trying to1248figure out how do we defeat China. All of us want to defeat1249China to make sure that we are the platform that the world uses1250for AI.1251    So, Mr. Vasishta, we have been focused on--almost every1252hearing that we have had has been focused on how do we beat1253China to AI. It is all subcommittee--anything that brings all1254the jurisdictions of the committee together, it is AI. And so1255the big part is energy. A lot of guys will tell me that--guys1256and ladies, I say ``guys'' generically--but men and women will1257tell me that in this industry that we have the brain power, we1258have the capital. We need the energy and we need the regulatory1259structure where we can succeed.1260    And so in terms of energy is producing the energy, but it1261is also being more efficient with energy that we have. If you1262look at the delta between China's production of energy and1263ours, it is scary, and we have to catch up. But we also have to1264get better with the energy that we have.1265    And so would you talk about, as a leading chip manufacturer1266in AI software, how NVIDIA is using advancements in chip1267technology and AI to improve data center efficiency in energy1268consumption?1269    Mr. Vasishta. Yes. Absolutely.1270    Obviously, that is a very important point when it comes to1271the deployment of AI, but it is also a very important point in1272the design of AI.1273    AI, as we see, is generated from a hardware infrastructure1274to do processing, networking, and many other functions. And as1275we move down that technology curve, what we are able to do is1276improve the efficiency and capability of those chips.1277    At the same time, what we have been able to see in the last1278few years, by using accelerated compute as opposed to the1279traditional compute, say, with CPUs only, we are able to1280achieve much higher energy efficiency. Think of it as1281performance per watt. Accelerated compute really has given the1282enablement--led to the enablement of AI. And energy efficiency1283is really--is created by that accelerated compute such that we1284can achieve the functions we want to achieve in the silicon1285technologies that we have.1286    Mr. Guthrie. So my question--so that--thank you. That was1287my question., but also added to that, if you look at the gap1288between what China's producing in energy and we are producing1289in energy, can we make that up in efficiency alone? Or is it1290going to require us producing more energy?1291    Mr. Vasishta. I think there is going to be a requirement1292for more energy. Energy is, you know--just the massive scale of1293deployment to be competitive in AI will require more energy1294even though we are improving energy efficiency of the1295infrastructure itself every generation also.1296    Mr. Guthrie. Well, thank you. Thank you.1297    I had a question for Mr. Shea, but that was a question that1298Ms. Matsui asked. So I may get back if you want to follow up1299because I think you ran out of time.1300    But let me go to Mr. Pickering first. Can you elaborate on1301what kind of growth our networks will require to support1302American innovation in AI, and how soon this infrastructure1303needed--how soon is this infrastructure needed so the United1304States can compete?1305    Mr. Pickering. Mr. Chairman, so if you think about fiber1306capacity to the data center, one of my member companies, their1307CEO recently said in the next 5 years, fiber capacity to the1308data center is projected to multiply 6 times. Now, if any of1309you all were to go to the Northern Virginia data center hub,1310and if you were to realize the abundance of fiber capacity into1311that data center hub is enormous--to comprehend six multiples1312of capacity demand growth is really hard to emphasize how1313important that is.1314    And I see Chairman Latta here as well. The same thing is1315going to happen in our grid, our transmission, our energy1316supply and generation. And we no longer look at a separation1317between the energy market, the data center market, and the1318fiber market. It is converged into one AI infrastructure1319market.1320    And those inputs, going in and meeting at the data center--1321if you look at my home State of Mississippi, which has always1322been last in economic growth, this year they are second in GDP1323growth because of huge investments that have been made possible1324by a fiber route built by Zayo, one of our member companies,1325that went from Atlanta, Georgia, to Dallas. It passes through1326Birmingham; Meridian, Mississippi; Jackson, Mississippi;1327Vicksburg; Monroe. That has become AI alley, with tens of1328billions of dollars of data center investments, Birmingham,1329Meridian, Jackson, Vicksburg. It is causing all of our energy1330production--grids, transmission--to see massive growth and1331upgrades.1332    Mr. Guthrie. Thanks. My time--I know you know the rules1333here. My time expired----1334    Mr. Pickering. You got me excited because the growth in the1335economic development comes with all this new capacity.1336    Mr. Guthrie. It is exciting. We are looking forward to1337working together on that. Thank you.1338    Mr. Hudson. Thank you, Chairman.1339    The Chair now recognizes Representative Soto for 5 minutes1340for your questions.1341    Mr. Soto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1342    We know AI is going to be an increasing part of our daily1343lives, in our homes, in our offices, small businesses, helping1344out with medicine and education, entertainment, and we are1345going to need advanced microchips, a strong internet1346connectivity, growing workforce, and huge amounts of storage in1347energy to make this happen.1348    It was recently announced a $70 million artificial1349intelligence partnership between UF and NVIDIA. We appreciate1350that.1351    At NeoCity in our district in Kissimmee, we are making1352advanced aerospace microchips and AI capacitor microchips. It1353has been named an NSF Engine, and Chris Malachowsky is a UF1354grad and cofounder, so we appreciate that partnership.1355    Mr. Vasishta, we see huge tariffs being levied, especially1356today, 50 percent on steel and aluminum. Ten percent across-1357the-board tariffs still remain in place, as well as higher1358elevated tariffs for places like Canada and Mexico. How does1359this affect manufacturing of advanced microchips?1360    Mr. Vasishta. Firstly, yes, thank you very much for the1361acknowledgement of Chris Malachowsky, who is, as you said, a1362founder of NVIDIA, and very connected to University of Florida.1363    You know, my real specialty is telecommunications and AI,1364so I am going to have to defer on the question of tariffs, if1365you don't mind.1366    Mr. Soto. So you don't use steel or aluminum to help make1367microchips?1368    Mr. Vasishta. I am sure they are used, but I don't get to1369see that on a daily basis.1370    Mr. Soto. I also want to talk about immigrant labor. You1371know that your CEO, Jensen Huang, is an immigrant. We see a lot1372of CEOs are immigrants who come into the country.1373    How important is it for some of these visas and to allow1374some of this highly skilled talent to stay, and what effect1375could deportations and a chilling effect on immigrants who come1376and want to be U.S. citizens and contribute to the economy for1377the future of microchip technology?1378    Mr. Vasishta. Yes. So NVIDIA, we pride ourselves in being a1379global company. We have employees around the world, and also we1380have some amazing talent that has been able to come to the U.S.1381to really exhibit their talent and grow their talent. And I am1382actually a recipient of that, being able to come to the U.S.1383and grow my career, and now at NVIDIA.1384    So having the right availability of talent where you need1385it and when you need it, and the enablement of that talent to1386be trained on the most current technologies and bringing the1387brightest and best, and leveraging that across the globe I1388think is absolutely essential for us in the U.S. to grow.1389    Mr. Soto. So if we allow them pathways to stay, that could1390help the United States. If we let them go back to other1391countries, that actually increases the competition, especially1392if we are talking about nations that don't share our values.1393    We also see the CHIPS Act under attack, $52 billion for1394chips manufacturing. You had mentioned also the importance of1395telecom manufacturing, $1.5 billion to incentivize that.1396    How key is maintaining the CHIPS Act to helping have enough1397resources, both public and private, to develop advanced AI1398microchips?1399    Mr. Vasishta. Yes. As I said in my opening remarks, I think1400the NTIA or public wireless fund that was created is absolutely1401correct. There is a requirement for public and private1402partnership when it comes to research. We have some of the best1403researchers on AI within NVIDIA, and we work constantly with1404research organizations. And we need--they also need funding as1405well to enable them to do their best work.1406    Mr. Soto. Thank you so much. It has been 135 days since1407President Trump has taken office; 135 days of delays to the1408BEAD program, rural broadband, high-speed internet for folks in1409underserved areas; 135 days of nothing happening, even though141050 States have already approved their plans.1411    Mr. Ramzanali, what is the cost to places in rural America,1412like my district in south Osceola and east Orange, and to local1413agriculture and other small businesses in rural America by this1414delay to the rural broadband program?1415    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate the question. The cost is the1416delay, not just of people having access to world-leading tools1417that we believe should be developed in the U.S., but it is also1418the cost of the economic value that all of those people could1419be producing through jobs, through remote learning, through so1420many other things that the internet enables.1421    Mr. Soto. Thanks so much. It is time to get this done. And1422I yield back.1423    Mr. Hudson. I thank the gentleman.1424    I now recognize Representative Allen for 5 minutes to ask1425your questions.1426    Mr. Allen. Thank you, Chairman Hudson, for holding this1427important hearing, and I thank the expert witnesses for joining1428us today.1429    Mr. Vasishta, could you provide a working definition of AI1430and its impact in context of this hearing today?1431    Mr. Vasishta. Yes. Obviously, everybody talks about AI, and1432we heard some examples of some of the uses of AI in your1433opening--in the committee Members' opening remarks. AI is1434really the ability for computers to predict, to think, to1435perceive as a human would do, and hence that is the definition1436of AI.1437    Mr. Allen. Mr. Pickering and Mr. Vasishta and Mr. Shea,1438let's talk about natural disasters. My district experienced a1439significant telecommunications disruption from Hurricane1440Helene. Took weeks in some areas for phone service to return to1441normal.1442    Could artificial intelligence help mitigate these1443disruptions in the future, and, if so, how? Mr. Pickering?1444    Mr. Pickering. The answer is yes. The AI applications,1445whether it is in our fiber, wireless, or any of our networks,1446is able to both manage and optimize redundancy, resiliency, and1447to be able to get systems back up and running and identify1448where issues are much more quickly than in the past.1449    As I mentioned, being from a State that is both tornado-,1450flood-, and hurricane-prone, this is a critical issue.1451    Mr. Allen. Right.1452    Mr. Pickering. And AI, just like in every sector, I think1453will give benefits of getting our communications back up,1454managing our networks more efficiently and effectively. And so1455I think it is a great application that we can all cite as one1456of the reasons AI is a good thing.1457    Mr. Allen. Mr. Vasishta?1458    Mr. Vasishta. Yes, so AI has the capability--and we are1459starting to develop some of that capability even more at1460NVIDIA--to actually have some level of prediction of weather1461outcomes as well.1462    So the first stage is, obviously, when you start to enable1463predictions to happen and be able to proactively react and make1464decisions based upon those weather predictions and likely1465outcomes. A lot of work is happening with NVIDIA around that1466about--with something that we call the Earth-2 model, and we1467are working with researchers around the world to make that1468happen.1469    And then, of course, there is the observe, orientate,1470decide, and act aspect of AI, which AI is able to then make1471those decisions real time autonomously, and then be able to act1472on those decisions autonomously and in an agentic way. This is1473really the year of AI agents that can make those kind of1474actions and decisions autonomously and rapidly, and then, of1475course, make decisions to be able to react afterwards to put1476the right logistics in place for a complex supply chain.1477    Mr. Allen. Mr. Pickering?1478    Mr. Shea. I have to, you know, go with Mr. Vasishta's1479comments that with digital twin technology we can predict what1480coverage we have left over with the resources that are existing1481after a natural disaster.1482    And the AI in particular is good, as I mentioned in my1483talk, about pulling signals out of noise and interference. So1484although you may not get the full capacity, you can at least1485get some capacity to everyone, so first responders and people1486in need will have some coverage no matter where they are in the1487cells' capabilities with what you have available.1488    So, yes, it is a great way to recover from a disaster, know1489where you need to put your resources to go, which cell sites to1490fix first, how to get the maximum capacity up to serve the1491people.1492    Mr. Allen. Right. Yeah, it was critical to our first1493responders and law enforcement and others in dealing with that1494disaster.1495    Mr. Pickering, how can AI be used to enhance efficiency1496within our communication networks?1497    Mr. Pickering. We already know and see in our wireless1498networks the optimization of spectrum, how you can more1499efficiently dynamically share, use spectrum beam and target1500spectrum, mitigate interference.1501    So the maximization and the efficiency that AI brings to1502our wireless networks can also be used in our fiber networks,1503it can be used in data centers, and it can be used in low Earth1504orbit satellite. So every communication system now is going to1505be embedded with AI efficiency.1506    The same thing is true in our energy networks in grid----1507    Mr. Allen. All right.1508    Mr. Pickering [continuing]. And transmission.1509    Mr. Allen. Good, good.1510    Mr. Shea, I have got 20 seconds. How can we use AI to1511secure our communications infrastructure from malicious actors?1512    Mr. Shea. Well, with the infrastructure, you can actually1513locate fake base stations, denial-of-service attacks, and other1514type of capabilities that people, adversaries, might bring1515against you. So at the physical layer, it helps you protect it.1516Then you have your cybersecurity at the back end that can work1517hand-in-hand to protect our networks.1518    Mr. Allen. Good. Thank you, thank you all. I appreciate it.1519    And I yield back, sir.1520    Mr. Hudson. I thank the gentleman.1521    The Chair now recognizes Representative Clarke for 51522minutes to ask her questions.1523    Ms. Clarke. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank1524our panel of witnesses for appearing before us today.1525    Our committee has a long history of working in bipartisan1526manner on issues of connectivity and protecting consumers. More1527recently, we have had robust bipartisan conversations about AI1528regulation, including the opportunities and challenges1529associated with this emerging technology, which is why I am1530disappointed to see my Republican colleagues turn their back on1531our bipartisan work and sell out to Big Tech millionaires who1532have bought their way into our Government.1533    Last month, Democrats sat in this hearing room for over 241534hours relentlessly combatting the bad provisions included in1535the Big Bad Ugly Reconciliation Bill. And in the middle of the1536night, Republicans voted to approve a 10-year moratorium on1537State and local enforcement of their own AI laws and provided1538no Federal safeguards in their place.1539    So let me be clear. I say this is a giveaway to Big Tech at1540the expense of Americans' personal freedom, privacy, and safety1541online. And until my Republican colleagues finally get their1542act together after 3 years in the majority, there will be no1543recourse or guardrails in more than half of the States that1544have responded quickly to their residents' concerns about the1545risks posed by AI.1546    New York City is one of the early movers in this space.1547Since 2023, we have had an effect on AI bias law designed to1548regulate the use of AI in employment decisions. This is just1549one of the hundreds of State and local laws my Republican1550colleagues would sweep away.1551    Mr. Ramzanali, can you please speak to some of the real-1552world harms and unintended consequences of the moratorium,1553especially those related to bias and discrimination?1554    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate the question. And the New York1555City law is a good example because the employment1556discrimination it is going after. Let me tell you the kind of1557harm that we have seen with AI systems, in resume-screening1558software in particular. There was a firm that was using resume-1559screening software for computer science jobs, and it was1560screening out women. Now, the company dealt with that, but that1561is the kind of information that leads to huge problems.1562    The kinds of laws that are out there are not just the New1563York City employment discrimination law, but you also have laws1564that create transparency so that we can know when there is a1565problem.1566    Ms. Clarke. Thank you.1567    Ensuring that we have proper safeguards in place for1568sophisticated AI systems is only one piece of the puzzle. It is1569also critically important that consumers understand the1570abilities and shortcomings of AI systems that are poised to1571become an increasing part of our everyday lives.1572    AI is already disrupting the way we live and work,1573supercharging scammers and refocusing our coal industries. Now1574perhaps more than ever before, digital literacy and AI literacy1575will decide who can participate in our modern economy.1576    That is why I am concerned with President Trump's misguided1577efforts to roll back the Digital Equity Act. This statute was a1578vital investment in making not only internet access available,1579but it also educated users on how to use it. We have seen far1580too often during this administration, we were once again on the1581finish line of getting $2.75 billion of Digital Equity Act1582grants out the door, and then the President determined, by way1583of Truth Social, that this program was woke, racist, and1584unconstitutional, and directed the Department of Commerce to1585stop the congressionally authorized and appropriated funding.1586Apparently, he was triggered by the word ``equity.''1587    The truth is, gutting the Digital Equity program will only1588hurt vulnerable populations like seniors, veterans, low-income1589communities, and communities of color who already suffer from1590the digital divide. It will sacrifice critical AI trainings1591that would have helped seniors understand online scams, upskill1592workers, and help more Americans incorporate AI into their1593everyday lives.1594    Without these programs, we risk building AI bridges to1595nowhere, creating a new digital divide in which certain1596communities can benefit from these new technologies and others1597slip further behind. This not only harms the economic health1598and well-being of our local communities but jeopardizes1599America's AI competitiveness that my colleagues on the other1600side of the aisle say they care about.1601    So I urge my Republican colleagues to join us in calling on1602President Trump to cease his efforts to destroy the Digital1603Equity Act programs.1604    Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record a1605letter from the National Digital Inclusion Alliance describing1606the importance of the Digital Equity Act in making sure all1607consumers can take advantage of AI.1608    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]1609    Ms. Clarke. And with that, I thank you and I yield back.1610    Mrs. Fedorchak [presiding]. The Chair recognizes--excuse1611me.1612    The Chair recognizes Mr. Latta for his 5 minutes of1613questions.1614    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair. And to1615our witnesses, thank you so much for being here.1616    AI is on all of our minds, as many Members have already1617said. So many questions, so little time.1618    Mr. Pickering, in your statement, you made very, you know,1619eye-opening remarks when you said that in 2024 the United1620States invested 12 times more into AI than the Communist1621Chinese, but that lead is not guaranteed.1622    And one of the things I know that we have talked about in1623the past is about permitting, and we got to get it done. And it1624is almost like the top, when we were talking about on the1625communications side and we were talking about on the energy1626side, and it is all coming together.1627    But could you talk briefly about if we don't win this race,1628what is going to happen, especially if we don't get our1629permitting done in this committee and in the House?1630    Mr. Pickering. So as China builds out their infrastructure,1631both energy and fiber networks and data centers, they are not1632going to experience the type of permitting delays that the1633energy, data center, and fiber industry are experiencing.1634    I want to commend you for your leadership in the1635reconciliation on having a national framework on permitting for1636pipelines, that if it is a multi-State pipeline, that there is1637a means by which you can have a time-certain approach of a1638year, with an extension of 6 months.1639    Yesterday I met with Congresswoman Fedorchak about what1640they do in North Dakota and the accountability, the1641transparency, shot clocks, and--you can have an accountable,1642transparent process that protects our natural resources and1643communities, but to act in a timely way.1644    And so our industry, on both sides of the data center,1645wants to work on a permitting route reform that gets us, as1646quickly as possible, to build as fast as possible.1647    Mr. Latta. Let me ask you real quickly if I can just follow1648up because, again, if we are looking at if we don't get this1649done--and as you said, that lead is not guaranteed--how much1650time do we have left?1651    Mr. Pickering. It is time to build. It is time to go and--1652you know, we have horror stories on fiber networks and railroad1653crossings and long processes that take, on the energy side,1654sometimes 10, 15 years, on the fiber side 18 to 2 months, when1655we need to be able to have shot clocks of 30, 60 days of1656getting the permits that we need to build.1657    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much.1658    Mr. Vasishta, you know, with so many data centers coming1659online that we are seeing across the country, can current1660telecom networks handle the amount of traffic that current and1661also future AI and data centers are going to bring?1662    Mr. Vasishta. Yes, so you are right, there's a lot of data1663centers coming online. A lot of those data centers are actually1664connected through fiber to each other or to the1665telecommunications network. The traffic that comes over the1666telecommunications network, particularly the wireless part of1667the network, is continuously growing, and that is where we1668really see the need for AI, because that traffic is as the AI1669models are trained, and then as the AI models are inferenced1670and get consumed by the consumers and by enterprises, that1671traffic is going to grow considerably.1672    And AI is essential, and that is why the fusion, as I said1673earlier, of radio access network infrastructure on top of also1674the AI infrastructure will really help enable that AI traffic1675to be distributed and consumed.1676    Mr. Latta. Let me follow up with another question to you1677because, again, you know, when we were talking about the race1678to 5G, and now we are in the race to 6G, and I know I had1679asked, you know, different witnesses that were here, where are1680we at--are we winning, are we losing--and, you know, I always1681hear that we are doing well, and all of a sudden we are not1682hearing people saying we are doing that well.1683    I got a question. What if we don't win that race to 6G--1684because also in your testimony you talk about the real threat,1685the detection, to automated remediation, and incident response,1686especially looking at some of these cyber attacks coming in.1687What happens if we don't win that race to 6G?1688    Mr. Vasishta. Yes, so I think it is an imperative, but let1689me answer the question that you have stated. The challenge with1690this--the challenge and benefit, the pro and con of the1691convergence of AI and 6G standards, is that there is really1692only one other country that is thinking about this, and that is1693China.1694    So traditional implementations of radio access network have1695not required AI. There is some AI infusing, but the ability to1696really take advantage of AI, I think, leaves us at a1697significant disadvantage from all different facets, both1698productivity but also security and overall growth.1699    So I think--I hate to answer the question because I hope we1700never get to that point.1701    Mr. Latta. Well, we have a lot of work to do in this1702committee and in this Congress. And, again, I appreciate all1703the witnesses for being with us today.1704    And, Madam Chair, I yield back the balance of my time.1705    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Representative Peters1706for his 5 minutes of questions.1707    Mr. Peters. Thank you, Madam Chair.1708    First of all, I want to say where I think there is1709agreement here. I really do believe that permit reform is very1710important and have been working on that. Would love to see some1711bipartisan action around that.1712    Also, we had a privacy bill here passed with a single1713national standard, I think it was 55 to 2. I don't know where1714that bill is. We should bring that back and we should pass it,1715because I believe that in some things you really have to have a1716Federal standard. I would say this is one where we also have to1717have one Federal standard.1718    We should take the best ideas from New York City, take the1719best ideas from California, Mississippi, whoever is passing1720these bills, and we should put them in one Federal standard1721because it is impractical for us to have not just 50 different1722States regulating it, but now localities, counties. I mean,1723this is nuts. That won't work. I agree.1724    Let me tell you my problem, Mr. Pickering, since you were1725in Congress. I heard all this talk about urgency, but the1726Republicans came up with this notion we should have a 10-year1727moratorium. What timing does that signal to this Congress is OK1728for setting a standard? Doesn't it really basically say you got172910 years?1730    Mr. Pickering. Two precedents to consider. The internet tax1731moratorium was a 3-year moratorium that was extended twice, and1732eventually it was made permanent by President Obama, who signed1733a permanent internet tax moratorium. Now, the result of that,1734as e-commerce emerged, has been at least $5 trillion----1735    Mr. Peters. Yeah.1736    Mr. Pickering [continuing]. In economic development because1737we didn't have, you know, hundreds of tax jurisdictions on e-1738commerce.1739    Mr. Peters. Sure. Yes, yes, yes.1740    Mr. Pickering. The second precedent for the committee to1741consider was the beginning of spectrum auctions. It was in the1742Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, which was President Clinton1743and Gore, and they included it in because the spectrum auctions1744would create revenue.1745    Mr. Peters. Right.1746    Mr. Pickering. And at the same time, they preempted any1747State regulation on the rates and on the entry because that1748would have devalued this new emerging technology.1749    The moratorium and modernization provision in1750reconciliation has the same principles and same concepts. We1751believe an all-of-government modernization of every Government1752service--from Department of Defense, to Energy, to Medicare, to1753Medicaid--will have tremendous savings if they adopt AI uses1754and applications and technology. But if we have 50 different1755States regulating----1756    Mr. Peters. No. Actually----1757    Mr. Pickering [continuing]. It undermines the basis of1758this----1759    Mr. Peters. I am not sure it can be done in reconciliation,1760and I don't disagree with the theory of it. I just think that176110 years--in the face of this talk about urgency, we had Eric1762Schmidt come in here. You could have heard a pin drop when he1763talked about how important this was.1764    Ten years is completely out of line. You know, I think if1765you are talking about a mor--that is a ban. That is not a1766moratorium. A moratorium is 2 years.1767    Mr. Pickering. You know, to me, whether it is 10 years or1768something less than 10 years, as long as this Congress has a1769window of pause to set the Federal framework--you just1770mentioned you are close on privacy. We are very close on1771permitting on the infrastructure.1772    Mr. Peters. We actually have a bill passed on privacy which1773we can't get back here to actually--1774    Mr. Pickering. So the question is, what is the right time1775to give you the opportunity on this committee to create a1776national framework on the major questions?1777    Mr. Peters. OK. My answer is, this term, which has about a1778year and a half left. And that is the appropriate time for a1779moratorium. So I am all for doing all--accomplishing all the1780goals, but if there is really a sense of urgency, let's get it1781done this term, is my answer.1782    Mr. Pickering. I agree.1783    Mr. Peters. I had another question for Mr. Ramzanali. Just1784this concept of normal technology. In your testimony, you1785stated that AI is a normal technology that needs normal1786regulation. I wish I understood what you meant by that.1787    But how can this committee treat AI like normal technology1788when it is so complex, and what maybe is the priority, you1789think, for us to attack first?1790    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate the question. So this framework1791of a normal technology is not meant to say it is not powerful.1792It is powerful. We should apply it across so many different1793domains. It is going to have really important impacts in a lot1794of scientific domains.1795    The idea is to say this is not the kind of problem where we1796don't have policy tools from our history that we can apply. So1797that is the idea, is we can treat it in a way where we can look1798to historical precedent, we can look to the policy toolkit we1799have, and apply that.1800    Mr. Peters. OK. Well, I am looking forward to this. Mr.1801Pickering, I am just playing with you because you are a former1802Member of Congress. It is fun to see witnesses out there.1803    Mr. Pickering. And I want you to know, I agree, the sooner1804the better. We have a national----1805    Mr. Peters. Yes. I think the thing is that I also want to1806indicate that this Democratic reason has to be a national1807standard. This Democratic reason has to be permit reform, but I1808just laugh at the notion that 10 years is the right timing. And1809if we are really--if we really have a sense of urgency about1810it, this term.1811    I yield back.1812    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bilirakis for his18135 minutes of questions.1814    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. I appreciate it very much, Madam1815Chair.1816    Mr. Shea, you briefly mentioned how technology and AI have1817been used to combat threats to the Uyghurs by both China and1818Turkey. As cochair of the International Religious Freedom1819Caucus, I have been a long-time advocate for the Uyghurs, so1820the importance of this really stuck with me.1821    Can you talk more about how AI is being used or can be used1822to prevent human rights abuses, war crimes, and other acts of1823persecution?1824    Mr. Shea. I think the thing you can do with proper1825monitoring, you can make sure that adversaries aren't getting1826into your network, putting up fake base stations, doing other1827types of things that they are then using for surveillance.1828Because, you know, the problem with the fake base station is1829they grab a call, and then suddenly the information going1830across there often can be deciphered.1831    So I think it is important for us to provide the tools,1832both to our partners and our country, to be able to protect1833these networks to make sure that it is not being used, you1834know, for hostile-type intent.1835    Mr. Bilirakis. Very good. Thank you.1836    At the same time as this hearing, of course, you know, the1837E&C is also having the oversight hearing on robocalls. So it is1838fitting to bring this topic up at this particular time, which1839is very important to my constituents.1840    So, again, with regard to robocalls, ever since the TRACE1841Act was passed, I think the average American became familiar1842with how AI capabilities have addressed spam calls. So we made1843some progress. People can now see a likely spam message pop up1844when an unknown number calls, helping prevent fraud, and that1845is great progress--it really is--toward protecting vulnerable1846people from identity theft. But we have to do more.1847    But actually catching these criminals continues to remain1848elusive, and prosecutions are rare, unfortunately.1849    So, Mr. Pickering, how can AI be used, utilized, to1850actually track down online and by-phone criminals that are1851preying on our seniors in particular and finally shut them down1852once and for all? If you could answer that question, I would1853appreciate it.1854    Mr. Pickering. Yes. The great thing about AI is, if you1855give AI a problem, it will create a greater, productive way and1856solution to attack any problem, whether it is fraud, criminal1857conduct, or find a good cure for cancer. It will be faster, it1858will be more productive, and it will be able to bring, you1859know, all the knowledge of any particular case to be able to1860solve it and to meet the objectives, whether it is in criminal1861justice or in national security or in energy or any other1862sector.1863    And so the applications and the growth of our large1864language models and what comes next with the quantifiable1865language models is really going to be an ever-increasing way,1866whether it is robocalls or fraud, to be able to identify,1867authenticate, and recognize--identify bad actors and then give1868tools to pursue them.1869    Mr. Bilirakis. Very good. Thank you.1870    One more question for Mr. Pickering. One of my senior1871staffers just got back from a trip, a delegation trip to1872Israel, including the Gaza Strip. One of the items discussed1873with Israeli leaders was the potential of AI to help identify1874and address the significant rise in anti-Semitism online. And1875with recent events in Colorado, it is clearly not only1876something of importance to Israel but a potential aid to a1877worldwide problem.1878    Mr. Pickering, again, can you explain how AI is currently1879being used by your member companies to identify threats of1880violence and potentially prevent violence against religious1881groups and what potential AI has in the near future to continue1882to address this particular issue?1883    I know you touched on it, but if you could elaborate, I1884would appreciate it.1885    Mr. Pickering. You know, this is a subject I am not as1886familiar or have not been privy to those types of applications.1887But I am confident if----1888    Mr. Bilirakis. In general, yes.1889    Mr. Pickering. In general, if there is an ability to,1890whether it is a prediction of a natural disaster or a1891cybersecurity or a potential crime, I think AI can be a1892resource and a tool for law enforcement, for national security,1893or for Homeland, to be able to better predict or identify, and1894then hopefully prevent disasters or attacks on the U.S.1895    So we have to have--again, this is why--I think a Federal1896framework in each category of the major questions so that we1897could use the full resources of the modernization of Government1898services that include national security, cybersecurity, and1899homeland security.1900    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you.1901    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mrs. Dingell for her 51902minutes of questions.1903    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Madam Chair.1904    Artificial intelligence is transforming nearly every aspect1905of our lives, which we all know, with great potential benefits1906and serious risks. As AI becomes more powerful and more deeply1907embedded in our economy, we have got to take comprehensive1908action to assure this technology strengthens ourselves, our1909health, safety, economy, and national security so we can reap1910its benefits. But we also know that it has got serious1911potential harms. So, I mean, just some examples is AI-driven1912robocalls, deepfakes, and deceptive advertising. And we have to1913be mindful of how much AI would widen existing digital divides.1914    But I want to be positive too. There are real1915opportunities. When paired with next-generation connectivity1916like 5G and 6G, AI can revolutionize healthcare, improve1917customer service, and help power the future of the automotive1918industry, boosting innovation, creating jobs, and improving1919lives across the country.1920    But in the few minutes I have, I want to stay focused on1921robocalls. I think there is a growing threat of robocalls and1922robotexts, many of which are increasingly powered by AI and1923disproportionately target vulnerable populations. In 20241924alone, Americans received over 52 billion robocalls, nearly 2001925calls per adult. Nearly half were scams or unwanted1926telemarketing calls. They are not just annoying, they are1927dangerous for a lot of people.1928    Consumers reported losing a record $12.5 billion to fraud,1929with $2.95 billion lost to impostor scams where bad actors used1930AI and deepfake tools to convincingly mimic trusted voices and1931identities.1932    Additionally, robotexts and phishing emails are tricking1933people into clicking malicious links or sharing sensitive1934financial information, scams pretending to be from Medicare,1935law enforcement, bank accounts, or even family members in1936distress. We used to get the old one, ``I am,'' you know,1937``stranded.`' Now they are mimicking these voices of family1938members. They are using cloned voices to build trust. They are1939getting more and more sophisticated.1940    And as AI voice cloning, spoofing, and deepfake tools1941become more accessible, threats continue to evolve, and1942Congress, the Federal Government, and regulators have to keep1943pace.1944    Mr. Ramzanali, can you speak to how bad actors are using1945artificial intelligence to exploit seniors, people with1946disabilities, other at-risk groups?1947    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate that question. And you are1948right, this is a pernicious problem. It is not just annoying.1949People are getting scammed in dangerous ways.1950    The robocall problem is accelerated by AI in a number of1951ways. Generative AI is being used to generate scripts that can1952be compelling for particular audiences. It is being used to1953build impersonation of specific people that a person might1954know, and it is being used to read that script on a call to try1955to scam somebody out of their money. That is a problem with the1956technology.1957    In my view, regulating a problem like that doesn't hurt1958national security. And so this is the kind of regulation where1959we can reduce real-world harms and not hurt our leadership in1960the world.1961    Mrs. Dingell. I want to build on that. Earlier this year,1962the FCC Chairman emphasized that cracking down on illegal1963robocalls remains a top priority. The Commission has committed1964to expanding the use of Do Not Originate lists and1965strengthening call-blocking tools, both of which are essential1966to protecting consumers. Though I would say to you, I am on the1967Do Not Originate list, and I get 20 calls a day. So I am trying1968to figure out and get that figured out.1969    But we must ensure all providers are fully implementing1970these tools. Last month, the Commission adopted new rules that1971required caller ID authentication on non-IP networks, helping1972ensure uniform robocall mitigation across platforms.1973    Mr. Ramzanali, how can artificial intelligence and machine1974learning be leveraged not only to detect but proactively block1975or trace--trace--illegal robocalls and robotexts? How can AI be1976part of the solution?1977    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate that question. The FCC had a1978proceeding last year to ask that exact question and has some1979answers. But I would say, where you went, where you are on the1980Do Not Call list, I am too. We both get calls all the time.1981That is not acceptable. We can't be at a place where we accept1982that. We wouldn't accept that with bank fraud. We wouldn't1983accept that with our spam emails. So I do think it is worth1984continuing to push the FCC.1985    The other hearing that is happening on robocalls, the1986Consumer Federation of America has a lot of good ideas on what1987else can be done. I urge the committee to consider those.1988    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you.1989    I had questions for you, Mr. Pickering, but I am out of1990time. So I will yield back and submit them for the record.1991    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Obernolte for his19925 minutes of questions.1993    Mr. Obernolte. Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair.1994    Mr. Pickering, we have heard in your opening remarks about1995your support for the moratorium on the enforcement of State1996regulation of AI. And you have heard in the opening statements1997of several Members here and then in some of the subsequent1998questions, answering, some assertions about the moratorium. So1999I wanted to ask you specifically about a few of them.2000    One of the assertions that we have heard is that the2001moratorium should be stripped out under the Byrd Rule because2002it is policy and isn't related to fiscal matters.2003    Now, as you know, the reason the moratorium was included is2004because we are making a $500 million investment in procuring AI2005to make Federal Government more efficient and effective, and it2006is nonsensical to make that enormous investment if all these2007Federal agencies are going to have to navigate this morass of200850 different State regulations.2009    Would you agree with the assertion that has been made that2010this should be stripped out under the Byrd Rule, or would you2011disagree?2012    Mr. Pickering. I would disagree. And, again, going back to2013other precedent, 1993, Bill Clinton and Al Gore started2014spectrum auctions with a Democrat majority, both the House and2015the Senate, on a partisan vote. And it was in budget2016reconciliation, so that you would have all the value created by2017spectrum auctions. You would also create a competitive2018industry, and you would preempt States from regulating wireless2019entry and rates, so that you would get the maximum value.2020    I think that is one of the best parallel precedents to the2021AI moratorium so that we can maximize all of the savings and2022all of the efficiencies across government, if we were to adopt2023AI technologies. We think--you know, just in the Department of2024Defense alone, we have an example of one of our companies,2025Granite, that does telecommunications services, replacing the2026old network and communications with new AI-generated options2027and services. And they believe just in one branch that they can2028save $100 million a year on changing that type of technology2029from obsolete, antiquated to new.2030    And if you do that across the board in every department,2031every agency--you know, last night you were at the AI award2032dinner. The vice admiral that heads or is the Director of the2033U.S. Geospatial-Intelligence Agency has probably created more2034wealth in our country in the private sector with taking the2035geospatial and putting it in all of our devices that we now2036know as Google Maps, or Apple Maps, or precision farming, or2037transportation and distribution.2038    We think that the AI adoption governmentwide will have2039tremendous savings and also help us grow our economy once the2040government products and solutions also go into the commercial2041markets.2042    Mr. Obernolte. Well, thanks. It is helpful to point out2043that this has precedent. It has been done this way before.2044    Mr. Pickering. Yes.2045    Mr. Obernolte. Another assertion that was made by several2046of my colleagues in their opening statements is that the2047moratorium would prevent States from enforcing laws that2048protect consumer safety and prevent deceptive business2049practices. Would you agree with that assertion?2050    Mr. Pickering. I would disagree. The general application of2051law, whether it is civil rights, consumer protection, consumer2052fraud, criminal conduct, the language that is in the2053modernization and moratorium in the reconciliation does not2054disrupt any of the enforcement of those laws.2055    Mr. Obernolte. Right. Yes. There is specific language in2056that bill that says that, as long as something isn't narrowly2057targeted on AI, it can be enforced.2058    Mr. Pickering. That is correct.2059    Mr. Obernolte. All right. Last assertion that has been made2060is that this is a giveaway to Big Tech. Is that something you2061would agree with or disagree with?2062    Mr. Pickering. As an advocate for competitors for 402063years--for the new entrants, the new technology, the upstarts,2064the innovators, the entrepreneurs--it is the exact opposite.2065    If you are a small startup, you cannot afford the patchwork2066of 50 States, the complexity of it, to create a model that you2067hope to deploy in 50 States and nationally and globally if you2068have to go through the hoops of every different State's2069regulation. It is the small startup that suffers the most under2070that system versus having one predictable national framework2071that then helps the new start and the competitor enter without2072a regulatory burden and cost that the big companies can afford2073and manage and have the resources in every State and here in2074Washington to manage. It is the small and the new entrant that2075does not.2076    Mr. Obernolte. Right. So this favors entrepreneurs and2077actually is anti-Big Tech because it encourages competition.2078    Mr. Pickering. And, you know, one of our----2079    Mr. Obernolte. I am sorry. I don't want to let you go over2080here. I am----2081    Mr. Pickering. Sure, sure. Well, OK, thank you.2082    Mr. Obernolte. I see we are out of time, but I thank you2083very much for your time.2084    Mr. Pickering. Thank you very much.2085    Mr. Obernolte. I yield back.2086    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Ms. Barragan for her 52087minutes of questions.2088    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, Madam Chair.2089    I would like to focus on AI's role in the real-world, life-2090or-death situations. Nearly 68 million Americans speak a2091language other than English at home. That is 1 in 5 Americans.2092In addition to immigrant communities, millions of tourists2093contribute to our economy, and their safety matters too. For2094all these people, receiving emergency alerts or calling 911 in2095their own language can mean the difference between life and2096death.2097    AI can help bridge those gaps, translating weather alerts2098or 911 calls in real time. But if we are not careful, errors2099and delays in translation could cost lives. States need the2100power to enforce rules, and Congress must ensure these systems2101are safe, effective, and fair.2102    Mr. Ramzanali, in your testimony, you highlighted AI's2103potential for real-time language translation during 911 calls.2104How can AI and Next Generation 911 work together to better2105serve our diverse communities and save lives?2106    Mr. Ramzanali. Thank you for highlighting the community2107that has that need, and let me describe the problem. When2108someone calls into 911--someone who doesn't speak English--2109there are translation services available. It just takes the2110operator time to even know what language is being spoken.2111    That time is critical life-and-death time. That is where2112technology can be helpful. Now, this is not at the, like, let's2113deploy it out to a hundred percent of the 911 operators today,2114but it has promise. I will also point out that the transparency2115requirements that a lot of States have, that is the kind of2116transparency requirements you want going hand-in-hand with2117deploying a technology in this kind of a situation.2118    Ms. Barragan. Well, thank you. That is one of the reasons I2119am disappointed that my Republican colleagues have abandoned a2120plan to fund NextGen 911, money that could have ensured that2121everyone, regardless of language they speak, could get help in2122an emergency. Instead, they gave billionaires yet another tax2123break, putting lives at risk.2124    Mr. Ramzanali, could you describe how AI translation2125technology has already been used to deliver life-saving2126information to millions of Americans who speak a language other2127than English?2128    Mr. Ramzanali. As I described, it is starting to be used in2129911 systems today. Some of the vendors are rolling it out. It2130is not yet at mass scale, but it is something where we are2131seeing that happen and--in fact, I heard from one of the2132government officials who works on NG911 this week that it can2133save up to 6 minutes in the delay between having access to 9112134response in the language that somebody needs and not having2135that for 6 minutes.2136    Ms. Barragan. Wow, that is a lot of time when it comes to2137an emergency and response.2138    I would like to share another example. In 2023, the2139National Weather Service partnered with an AI translation firm2140to train a language model in weather terminology. Thanks to2141that collaboration, forecasters reduced the time to translate2142hurricane forecasts from an hour to less than 10 minutes,2143potentially saving countless lives.2144    When the Trump administration let that contract collapse in2145April of this year, they created a dangerous gap in information2146for millions of Americans. Even when helpful AI systems are in2147place, Republicans find ways to undermine them.2148    Despite impressive advances, I am concerned about letting2149the fast-growing AI industry go unchecked, especially in2150critical areas like emergency communications. If House2151Republicans' reconciliation bill becomes law, States will lose2152the ability to enforce new AI regulations for 10 years.2153    Mr. Ramzanali, what are the risks of underregulating AI2154technology in emergency communications, and how might that2155endanger lives?2156    Mr. Ramzanali. I think you made the point well of when2157these systems aren't tested well, when they are deployed too2158quickly, that can endanger lives.2159    I also want to go back to your point on the weather data.2160The National Weather Service is part of NOAA, which is in the2161Commerce Department. Part of what these AI systems that can do2162weather--part of what they are trained on is data that NOAA2163produces. Think about buoys in the ocean that know when a2164tsunami is coming, because we too are a Pacific country, that2165data is managed by employees of NOAA. So when the science2166agencies hit a cut, that is the kind of work that I get worried2167about.2168    Ms. Barragan. Great. Thank you.2169    With that, I yield back.2170    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Carter for 52171minutes of questions.2172    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank2173each of you for being here.2174    You know, AI is fascinating, but it is also daunting,2175particularly for those of us who don't consider ourselves2176experts in this area. But just about every profession--I am a2177pharmacist, and it is going to impact my profession. It is2178going to impact almost everything that we can think of. But it2179is daunting, and it is--we know that the advantages are2180immeasurable, but then again, we have got to be careful.2181    We know that it is going to help us in detecting cyber2182threats, increasing network reliability and spectrum2183efficiency, or combating robocalls--we all want that. So the2184benefits speak for themselves, but the innovation has got to be2185balanced. It is got to be balanced with responsibility. And I2186am very, very concerned--I think we all are--about that.2187    I am particularly curious about how AI can help us modify2188and improve and deploy broadband, especially in rural areas. I2189have the honor and privilege of representing the entire coast2190of Georgia, but I have a lot of rural south Georgia as well. In2191Georgia we say there's two Georgias: There is Atlanta and2192everywhere else. Well, I represent everywhere else, and there2193is a lot of rural area in south Georgia.2194    Mr. Pickering, how can Federal policy promote equitable2195access to AI-powered tools and services, particularly in rural2196and underserved areas?2197    Mr. Pickering. Well, one thing that this committee has2198spoken earlier this year to address is how the BEAD funds need2199to go out as quickly as possible, the speed to BEAD, and to be2200able to cut the red tape so that the deployment of broadband2201networks to rural parts of the country, like your district, can2202proceed as quickly as possible with as little regulatory red2203tape as possible.2204    AI can help us on the permitting side, both for the local2205mayor, city council, to be able to have the resources through2206AI to solve permitting issues, to make it faster so that you2207can build faster.2208    As many of the panelists have talked about, wireless2209coverage in rural areas can be improved by AI and the spectrum2210management and how our networks operate and interoperate. So2211for rural America, AI on our networks, on our broadband2212deployments--I will give you one last example.2213    We have a company that is building in the Midwest, and they2214are able, through an AI software application, to know when a2215contractor is completing a fiber deployment by the square foot.2216And they can pay them in real time. And so the incentive is to2217build faster, because as soon as they build, they can get paid.2218And so that is just one example.2219    Mr. Carter of Georgia. That is a nice incentive. For2220someone who was in business for 32 years, I can assure you that2221is a nice incentive.2222    Another component of AI that I think is critical for our2223race is from 5G to 6G and the technology there. I believe that2224we are in another arms race with our adversaries, such as2225China, and we need to be first in the world to reach 6G.2226    The Salt Typhoon--all of you remember that--last year, it2227was a Chinese-sponsored infiltration of nine major American2228telecommunications companies' networks and systems.2229    Mr. Shea, what lessons did the industry learn from the Salt2230Typhoon cyber attack? Did we learn anything? I mean----2231    Mr. Shea. I am not really qualified on cybersecurity to2232comment. I just know that, you know, it was a substantial2233penetration, and there certainly is a lot of concern in the2234industry.2235    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Anyone on the panel want to take a2236stab at that?2237    Good. I win. I baffled the--I did it. I have been wanting2238to do that for 11 years, so thank you all.2239    What do you think is the role, Mr. Shea, of AI in improving2240spectral efficiency and resilience in national critical2241infrastructure?2242    Mr. Shea. Well, we think--you know, as I mentioned in my2243testimony, we are trying to share bands with incumbent users2244that are very mobile. And prior attempts were very slow. They2245took maybe minutes to make a spectrum change.2246    I think with AI, you can, in a matter of milliseconds,2247understand what is happening in the spectrum and have the2248people that are using the band that are not the incumbent user2249make accommodation for the user. So I think it is opening a2250whole new world for spectrum sharing.2251    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Great. Again, I want to thank all of2252you for being here, and I want to remind you, for many of us--2253for most of us, I would go as far as to say--this is2254fascinating, but it is also daunting, and it is also, quite2255honestly, scary. So bear with us.2256    Thank you, and I yield back.2257    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Menendez for 52258minutes of questions.2259    Mr. Menendez. Thank you.2260    Madam Chair, I am deeply concerned that we are sitting here2261while our colleagues across the aisle push for deregulation of2262AI at the same time that the Trump administration is2263weaponizing AI to make Americans less safe.2264    Let me explain. People across the country are and should be2265concerned by recent reports that the Trump administration is2266using Palantir's AI technology to consolidate Americans' most2267sensitive data from across Federal agencies into one2268centralized database. This data could include Americans'2269medical history, disability status, bank account numbers,2270immigration status, and even real-time geolocation information.2271    Make no mistake, the Trump administration is taking this2272unprecedented step to create a surveillance apparatus and is2273doing so with zero oversight from congressional Republicans.2274    While I am in favor of making government more efficient, we2275have known for years that synthesizing this much sensitive2276information into one centralized database is ripe for abuse and2277makes us all vulnerable to cyber attacks.2278    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter this article2279from The New York Times about the Trump administration using AI2280to merge government data into the record.2281    Mrs. Fedorchak. Without objection.2282    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]2283    Mr. Menendez. Mr. Ramzanali, you highlight in your2284testimony that AI has been used in troubling ways, specifically2285as it relates to surveillance. In a few words, how could the2286Trump administration's use--how could the Trump administration2287use Palantir's AI technology in a centralized database of2288Americans' most sensitive information to monitor and track our2289constituents?2290    Mr. Ramzanali. Citizens give a lot of government to their2291data, and they have to. That is part of the social contract we2292have. For the services you need to be able to do that.2293    In the 1970s, when the Privacy Act was passed, the fear of2294a combined database that is going on right now, that was the2295exact fear for the reason that the 1974 Privacy Act was2296created, because they didn't think--at that time, Congress2297thought that we should be afraid of a government that knows2298everything about its citizens.2299    Mr. Menendez. And think about how much more, right, data we2300are providing to the Federal Government to make government work2301for our constituents, right? And they should have confidence2302that in doing so, that information that they provide, some of2303the most sensitive information, will not be weaponized or used2304against them. Is that correct?2305    Mr. Ramzanali. That is right. When--we want people to have2306trust that when they are providing information it should be2307truthful. We want people to give the IRS truthful information2308without fear that it will be abused somewhere else.2309    Mr. Menendez. Correct. And as AI tools become more2310advanced, is there a need for high-end consumer protections for2311the Government's collection of sensitive data?2312    Mr. Ramzanali. Absolutely, yes.2313    Mr. Menendez. And can you expand on that?2314    Mr. Ramzanali. There is a lot of--since the 1970s, not only2315has the technology changed, our thinking on privacy has also2316changed. There are new principles, like data minimization2317principles, that the Privacy Act has some of those, but we can2318go much further and not just collection, but we should minimize2319what we retain and what we process and how we link those2320databases.2321    Mr. Menendez. Great. The last piece of major Federal2322privacy legislation was passed in 1998. That is almost 30 years2323ago, before many of the major social media platforms were even2324launched. Even so, my GOP colleagues continue to sit here and2325repeatedly call for Congress to avoid any guardrails on the use2326of AI at both the Federal and State level. In fact, their2327reconciliation package that passed the House just 2 weeks ago2328include a decadelong moratorium on any State law that addresses2329AI.2330    Just yes or no, are commonsense AI guardrails critical for2331protecting Americans' data from being weaponized?2332    Mr. Ramzanali. Yes.2333    Mr. Menendez. And would the Republicans' moratorium of2334State AI legislation wipe away the current guardrails that2335protect Americans from their data being misused and weaponized?2336    Mr. Ramzanali. Yes.2337    Mr. Menendez. So while the Trump administration is using AI2338to collect and exploit Americans' sensitive data, House2339Republicans are rolling back AI regulations and preventing2340States from filling in the existing regulation gap with their2341own policies to--with their own policies to protect our2342constituents. This will leave the American people without any2343protections as the Trump administration uses AI to act2344recklessly with their data, and we will miss a short window to2345pass meaningful legislation at both the State and Federal2346level.2347    The bottom line is that the Trump administration cannot2348continue to misuse sensitive data with impunity. Congress must2349act to implement commonsense guardrails on the Government's use2350of AI technology.2351    Quickly, with respect to the consolidation of Americans'2352information across Federal agencies, it is not something that2353we have seen before, it is unprecedented, and does it make us2354more or less cyber secure as a country?2355    Mr. Ramzanali. Less. It makes us way more vulnerable.2356    Mr. Menendez. And if you were China or Russia or North2357Korea, right, and you knew that the Federal Government was2358consolidating our sensitive data into one database, would that2359not be your prime target to attack and hack?2360    Mr. Ramzanali. I would be shocked if it is not already2361their prime target.2362    Mr. Menendez. I agree. Thank you so much.2363    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Dunn for 5 minutes2364of questions.2365    Mr. Dunn. Thank you, Madam Chair.2366    This committee has vast jurisdiction over technologies, AI2367being no exception. And along with this committee, I also serve2368on Speaker Johnson's AI Task Force led by my friend Mr.2369Obernolte from California.2370    We focused on AI regulations, regulations on AI labeling,2371watermarking standards, harmful risks such as deepfakes, fraud2372prevention, cybersecurity protocols, et cetera. We need America2373to be at the forefront of the technology, not China.2374    President Trump also made important decisions around this,2375including his Executive orders to remove barriers to American2376leadership in AI and advance AI education for American use.2377Congressional action is necessary to support these efforts and2378protect Americans from serious risks but also to support2379innovation.2380    Startups and small businesses are already benefiting from2381AI. And specifically with telecom, prioritizing advancement of2382the American global competitiveness in 5G and 6G growth is2383really on the top of everybody's mind.2384    So I would like to take everything into account on that. A2385current example is finding and acquiring the resources to build2386new data centers.2387    Representative Pickering, I want to pivot for a moment to2388the realities my district faces, which, due to natural2389disasters that affect the Florida panhandle, we rely heavily on2390emergency preparedness and response. And as technology2391advances, emergency alerts and updates to telecommunications2392networks are a welcome advancement, and I support the FirstNet2393emergency telecom network in my district. FirstNet is up for2394reauthorization in 2027, and these emergency networks are2395crucial for us.2396    So given INCOMPAS' proven success in a wide range of2397communication networks and backup infrastructure, how do you2398see AI being used for public safety, and how do we protect2399emergency networks and systems from, you know, people in China?2400    Mr. Pickering. It is a great question. And this is where2401ORAN and AI can really help on the public safety front and in2402predicting a natural disaster and the response to it. One of2403the great problems in any disaster is the communication of2404local public safety with Federal public safety, whether it is2405FEMA or Homeland Security. And by using AI to create better2406interoperability of the networks and the communications, the2407response and the recovery and the prediction of any natural2408disaster, I think, through AI will be improved. And I would2409welcome any other comment from the panel, that this is really2410where we can strengthen FirstNet with AI applications and the2411networks that are coming through the AI movement.2412    Mr. Dunn. Thank you for that.2413    Mr. Shea, you spoke about U.S. leadership in AI, and2414DeepSig's tech, like your AI-native wireless capabilities,2415coupled with Open RAN networks will reduce costs to replace2416custom hardware and allow us to better compete with China and2417whatnot, specifically Huawei. Can you elaborate on your2418company's vision, how you see that entrepreneurship leading to2419the conversations, but also the actions of the companies in2420creating new technologies?2421    Mr. Shea. As I mentioned before, ORAN is just enabling this2422by disaggregating the network into, you know, components that2423can be built with individual commodity-to-base servers. So what2424it is letting companies like DeepSig do is participate with2425other companies to come up with very cost-competitive2426technology. You know, when you buy a server, you have many,2427many options. And so by getting away from custom hardware, you2428can go commodity on the actual hardware components of it.2429    And now, the actual radio units are what is left. And2430through the NTIA program, there has been a great effort to2431reduce the cost and simplify these radio units so they can also2432be part of the cost reduction.2433    So we think this is going to really help drive competition,2434which will ultimately drive down costs.2435    Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much.2436    In the few seconds left to us, Mr. Vasishta, can we utilize2437spectrum bands for wireless advancement? I mean, I think that2438is important. I know we are not in a classified setting, but to2439the extent that you can, will you share your thoughts on how2440our military can diversify spectrum usage to remain, you know,2441innovative and stay hidden?2442    Mr. Vasishta. Yes, this is where, actually, the ability for2443AI to do dynamic spectrum allocation, dynamic spectrum sharing2444with 4G and 5G, and sensing of the spectrum can be really2445beneficial, because many of those applications can be very2446beneficial for military applications as well as, you mentioned2447earlier, public safety.2448    So bringing AI and the spectrum together as well as, of2449course, additional spectrum that can be made available for the24506G domain, I think is one of the real benefits of AI.2451    Mr. Dunn. Well, thank you for mentioning dynamic sharing.2452That is what I wanted to get from you. I appreciate that.2453    I yield back.2454    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Ms. McClellan for 52455minutes.2456    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Madam Chair.2457    This is probably one of the most important hearings that we2458are going to have all year. And I want to put this in a little2459bit of context about why I am so excited about it and to hear2460from you.2461    So I graduated law school in 1997, and rather than2462practicing toxic tort litigation, like I thought I was going2463to, I began working for an incumbent local exchange company2464implementing the Telecom Act and spent 25 years in that2465industry. And I saw the transition from the Princess phone2466plugged into the wall, to this, to telephones in people's2467sunglasses, and how rapidly that transition changed as we got2468farther and farther away from 1997.2469    And at my last legal conference in that job, I heard some2470statistics--this was in 2018. I heard some statistics about AI2471and the ability of AI to create fake news being on pace to2472outpace its ability to detect it.2473    And we talked about--then, we were in the fourth Industrial2474Revolution, and we talked about how with each Industrial2475Revolution, just as it brought extraordinary advancements, they2476brought extraordinary challenges. I don't know if we are on the2477way to the fifth Industrial Revolution with the transition from24785G to 6G and how fast AI is evolving, but I think we are2479woefully behind getting ahead of the challenges.2480    Yesterday I was speaking to a group, and they asked me,2481specifically about AI, What is Congress not talking about that2482it should? And, What are industry leaders not talking about2483that they should? And lo and behold, there is an article in2484Axios on May 28th called ``AI jobs danger: Sleepwalking into a2485white-collar bloodbath,'' where Dario Amodei said that AI could2486wipe out half of all entry-level white-collar jobs and spike2487unemployment to 10 to 20 percent in the next 1 to 5 years.2488    Madam Chair, I would ask unanimous consent to introduce2489this article into the record so I can get straight to my2490questions about it.2491    Mrs. Fedorchak. Without objection.2492    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]2493    Ms. McClellan. I am actually shocked we haven't heard any2494questions yet about workforce. But for all of the witnesses,2495how can industry and Congress work together to manage this2496workforce transition that is coming?2497    It came in every Industrial Revolution. But the difference2498is here it is going to happen so fast that I don't know if we2499are going to have time to retrain workers, I don't know if2500there will be jobs to retrain them to, and I don't know if we2501can adjust school curriculum fast enough to teach today's2502students what they need when they graduate to succeed in this2503new world.2504    So what should we be thinking about to address that issue?2505    Mr. Pickering. One recommendation that I would have is in2506the BEAD Program, there is both deployment and nondeployment.2507Louisiana, which--Republican State, on the forefront, they are2508using about 60 percent of their funding to deploy and connect2509every Louisianian and about 40 percent in workforce training.2510    So if you think about AI--basically, what our AI networks2511that will take the AI applications and content over the2512broadband networks that we are building and the infrastructure2513that we are building, but you have to complement it with2514workforce.2515    So Mignon Clyburn and I work together with INCOMPAS and the2516AI competition center, and one of our key pillars is AI2517workforce. And everybody at this table--NVIDIA is extremely2518engaged in AI workforce training. Microsoft, Google, Amazon.2519The companies that are building the AI models realize that if2520we don't start from K through 12, community college and2521university, and adult retraining and workforce, this huge2522transformation and the benefits could be jeopardized for the2523good that it could do. But we need to train now and use some of2524the BEAD money in flexibility for both deployment and training.2525    Mr. Vasishta. Maybe I will just quickly follow on from2526that.2527    AI gives tremendous opportunity for distribution training,2528the ability to provide individual students one-on-one tutoring2529rather than sitting in a classroom and listening to one2530teacher, trained at the same pace, for instance.2531    But that also requires communications network as well. And2532the ability to provide that connectivity to every person where2533they need it and every student when they need it, I think,2534enables us to train quickly. As mentioned before by Mr.2535Pickering, NVIDIA is very much engaged with many IS leads,2536meaning independent software vendors, developing those types of2537applications such that they can be delivered over the network.2538    And then, of course, as I said earlier, the ability to2539provide a very competitive U.S. telecommunications2540infrastructure provider will also bring many jobs into the U.S.2541    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Madam Chair. I hope the other two2542will send me their responses for the record. And I yield back.2543    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Joyce for 52544minutes.2545    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member, for holding2546today's hearing. Thank you to the witnesses who have agreed to2547come here and testify.2548    My district in Pennsylvania, and throughout the2549Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, is on its way to becoming one of2550the epicenters of data centers throughout America. The energy2551resources that sit beneath the feet of my constituents is what2552makes these centers viable. While AI has the potential to2553continue to be developed, without the significant energy2554capabilities and the technology will ultimately become2555ineffective. This demand for massive energy capabilities2556fundamentally goes hand-in-hand with the need for fiber2557deployment.2558    Fiber provides the backhaul that is needed for data2559centers. But without the right permitting laws in place, we2560will be incapable of speedy deployment. If we continue to2561inhibit the growth and the deployment of fiber with obstacle2562after obstacle, then we are at risk of losing the AI race to2563China. You have all stated that and acknowledged that here this2564morning.2565    This is particularly true when it comes to deploying fiber2566under, across, and around railroad tracks. The continual2567delays, unreasonable permitting, the back-and-forth between2568providers and rail are causing massive problems for my2569constituents whose homes reside near these tracks and rely on2570providers to deploy to their homes.2571    Mr. Vasishta, how are you developing and innovating your2572technology to address the growing demands of AI? Do you concur2573that fiber is the necessary backbone of this system? And what2574type of technology do you see becoming critical in the future2575to network security as the demand for AI continues to develop?2576    Mr. Vasishta. So, yes. We do agree that the backhauling of2577data centers is very important, and fiber plays a critical role2578in enabling that to happen.2579    If you think about the compute density of--the density of2580compute required for AI, it can be at the chip level, it can be2581at the data center level, it can be at the campus level, or2582multiple data centers. And the connectivity of all those points2583within a data center or--data center relies often upon fiber2584networks.2585    One of the things that we are continuously doing is2586innovating in that ability to provide low power but also2587optical connections and fiber connections to enable that to2588happen.2589    Mr. Joyce. Mr. Pickering, INCOMPAS has been a great2590supporter of my legislation that is focused on streamlining the2591railroad permitting process. The intersection of fiber2592deployment and railroad tracks is just one of the many2593obstacles that providers, such as your members, face.2594    I am the grandson of Pennsylvania railroad workers. I know2595how important the rail was for connecting East to West2596throughout America. I know that Polish and Irish and German2597immigrants built that connectivities. And I feel the rail2598industry is no longer responsive to understanding the2599connections to occur via rail, but they need to connect with2600the ability for fiber to go between, under, and around those2601rail crossings.2602    How are these permitting relays delaying and giving that2603advantage to China when rail is not cooperative in United2604States?2605    Mr. Pickering. Thank you. And thank you for your leadership2606on this issue.2607    Whether it is our companies who are building long-route2608fiber routes or fiber to the home and fiber to the community,2609when they get to the railroad track, there is a regulatory gap.2610It is one of the few places that, from a permitting right-of-2611way perspective, there is no regulatory oversight.2612    So the FCC does not have oversight of rail crossings, and2613the Federal Rail Administration has no regulatory oversight.2614And as a result, there is no incentive for the rail industry to2615work with another network industry, the broadband fiber2616industry, to give them fair access, timely access, and an2617actual cost to cross their railroad.2618    And as a result, we have story after story of up to 182619months of delays of being able to build. And if you are a fiber2620company with capital that is just waiting and losing your money2621and your time to build to the other side of the tracks to close2622the digital divide, then you are not going to build there. Or2623you are going to avoid or--just cost all the community the lost2624time and opportunity for a broadband connection.2625    The other thing: Sometimes we hear exorbitant fees of up to2626$40,000 of crossing, making deployments uneconomic to be able2627to build and deploy. So this is a major problem. And your2628legislation is a very important progress that I hope that we2629can make in this Congress and in permitting reform ahead.2630    Mr. Joyce. The connectivity that rail allowed America to2631achieve a century ago needs to continue today with the2632deployment of fiber. And the ability of rail to cooperate with2633this development, unfortunately, now needs to be legislated. I2634look forward to doing that.2635    I thank all of the witnesses for being present today. And I2636yield back the balance of my time. Thank you.2637    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Ms. Castor for 52638minutes.2639    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to2640the witnesses for being here. I am excited about the potential2641for AI, all of the advancements and efficiencies in2642communications networks and in our lives. And thank you for2643pressing this committee on our responsibility to adopt a2644national framework.2645    The problem is that my GOP colleagues have abdicated that2646responsibility. And what they did in sneaking in this 10-year2647AI immunity moratorium takes us off track, takes us away from2648the debate we should be having on that actual framework, and2649instead, we are going to have to fight over this big gift to2650Big Tech contained in the billionaire tax giveaway. It is2651really unfortunate.2652    And let me say to all of the State and local leaders out2653there, I really do appreciate everything that you have done2654while Congress has been absent, while Congress has abdicated2655its responsibility in this area. And I want to make sure that2656we know this is a bipartisan issue across the country. The2657National Association of Attorneys General, 40 of them have2658written to us that the impact of such a broad moratorium would2659be sweeping and wholly destructive of reasonable State efforts2660to prevent known harms associated with AI. They had previously2661recommended that the Congress act on a framework, especially2662addressing high-risk areas. But rather than follow the2663recommendation, instead this immunity for Big Tech and AI,2664again, takes us off track.2665    So let me try to get us on track on some of these2666provisions. Yes or no for all of you. If Congress were to act2667in a framework, would you agree that we should address AI2668having highly sexualized conversation with minors, even2669encouraging minors to harm themselves? Is that an area that we2670should address? Yes or no.2671    Mr. Pickering. Yes. Child safety, yes.2672    Ms. Castor. Yes.2673    Mr. Pickering. At the Federal level.2674    Mr. Vasishta. Sorry. What was the question again?2675    Ms. Castor. Sure. When Congress is going to adopt a2676framework, is this a topic that we should address?2677    Mr. Vasishta. I think that is important topic. Yes.2678    Mr. Shea. I would agree, for minors particularly. Yes.2679    Mr. Ramzanali. Definitely.2680    Ms. Castor. Yes.2681    How about--you know, a number of cities have banned AI-2682driven rent-setting software used by large landlords after2683evidence that they were using algorithms colluding to push2684rents up and reduce housing availability. Is this a topic for a2685national framework? Yes or no?2686    Mr. Pickering. And let me just----2687    Ms. Castor. Can you do yes or no? I have limited time. Or2688you can pass.2689    Mr. Pickering. Well, existing civil rights laws, I think,2690cover that.2691    Mr. Vasishta. I think I have to pass if that is an option.2692    Mr. Shea. Likewise. I am not much into regulation. Thank2693you.2694    Mr. Ramzanali. Yes.2695    Ms. Castor. OK. How about some of the--let's see. There was2696another good example here. How about just plain transparency so2697that a consumer understands when they are--that AI is on their2698phone or guiding their decisions? Yes or no.2699    Mr. Pickering. As long as it is in a Federal framework,2700yes. Fifty different State transparency requirements, no.2701    Mr. Vasishta. I think transparency is always important.2702    Mr. Shea. I agree with that. People should understand what2703they are being--working with.2704    Mr. Ramzanali. Yes.2705    Ms. Castor. So I wonder also--at the end of the last2706Congress in December, they issued a Bipartisan House Task Force2707Report on Artificial Intelligence. Have you all read this?2708    Yes, Mr. Pickering?2709    Mr. Vasishta. No.2710    Ms. Castor. No.2711    Mr. Shea. I haven't either. Sorry.2712    Ms. Castor. You haven't.2713    It is just very interesting. I am going to ask Madam Chair2714that we put in the record the key findings relating to2715preemption. That bipartisan work group that some of the members2716of the committee here sat on, they said Federal preemption of2717State law on AI issues is complex. It has--Federal preemption2718has benefits and drawbacks. It can allow State action subject2719to floor or ceiling.2720    But the ultimate recommendation is that the Congress2721continue to study this. Nowhere in here does it say that we2722should sneak in a 10-year immunity moratorium for all AI2723regulation.2724    Mr. Ramzanali, is the Congress being consistent here?2725    Mr. Ramzanali. I think you had it right. Senator Blackburn2726recently had a very great, reasonable view on this, which was2727Congress shouldn't have a moratorium but it should consider2728preemption when reasonable protections are being put in place2729in a similar area. And that applies because her State of2730Tennessee has the Eldest Act.2731    Ms. Castor. Right.2732    Mr. Ramzanali. She has the Federal bill, but that makes2733sense to preempt when--that debate should happen when it is2734time.2735    Ms. Castor. Thank you very much. I yield back.2736    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mrs. Houchin for 52737minutes.2738    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks to the2739witnesses for your testimony today.2740    Artificial intelligence is no longer a far-off concept. It2741is already changing how we live, work, and communicate, but its2742success still depends on the basics: fast, reliable broadband2743infrastructure, access to spectrum, cybersecurity, and reliable2744energy.2745    For rural communities, like in southern Indiana, like mine,2746and across the country, those fundamentals are not always2747guaranteed. That is why I am fighting to close the digital2748divide and make sure that those small communities aren't left2749behind. Today I want to highlight just a few key priorities.2750    First, we need commonsense permitting reform to cut red2751tape and get broadband and wireless projects off the ground2752faster.2753    Second, we should be harnessing the power of AI to speed up2754deployment and strengthen our cybersecurity. It is especially2755important for small providers who don't have the massive teams2756or unlimited resources to keep up with compliance and ongoing2757threats.2758    We should also be prioritizing the deployment of clean,2759reliable energy like SMRs, small modular nuclear reactors, to2760power AI and data centers. I hope we can focus on how2761Washington can be a partner, not a barrier, in driving2762innovation and expanding the reach of responsible AI across2763sectors in communities.2764    Mr. Pickering, you have emphasized that universal broadband2765access is a prerequisite to universal AI access. What specific2766barriers are your members running into most often, and where2767can Congress help?2768    Mr. Pickering. Well, you had mentioned earlier in your2769comments, commonsense permitting reform would be at the top of2770our list.2771    Creating AI connectors in corridors--for example, you may2772be building a long-fiber route from an urban area to a rural2773area like in Indiana, and it may not be economic to have the2774long-route fiber that connects data center hubs. So making that2775eligible for BEAD as well as permitting reform--because once2776you get the data center hubs, what will happen next is a second2777wave, which will be advanced manufacturing, that I believe will2778be coming to rural and remote parts of the country that would2779never be considered in the old world with old technology as a2780manufacturing hub.2781    But in AI and with advanced manufacturing, as long as you2782have energy and if you have data centers and if you have fiber,2783then you will see the economic growth come to the middle parts2784of the country, not just the coastal.2785    And so I would encourage permitting reform and BEAD2786flexibility.2787    Mrs. Houchin. Yes. I have been a chief proponent for BEAD2788flexibility, removing some of the more costly aspects of BEAD2789that are not resulting in deployment of those funds to2790broadband, as well as technology neutrality.2791    Is there a role for AI itself in helping to accelerate2792permitting? Could Federal support for AI-based project review2793tools actually make the deployment process faster and more2794predictable?2795    Mr. Pickering. The great thing about AI, it is going to be2796the greatest technological advancement in human productivity in2797the history of the world. And when you apply it to--whether it2798is rushing new cancer treatments through FDA approval, the2799iterative ability to speed cancer treatment can also be applied2800to everyday practical things like, how do we permit faster, how2801do we plan better? And the AI applications in every part of2802American life can make us more productive and faster in every2803area.2804    Mrs. Houchin. And what is your take on proposals that2805classify AI-supporting infrastructure like data centers or2806high-capacity fiber? What do you--if we work to classify those2807as strategic infrastructure eligible for a fast track in2808permitting, is that necessary?2809    Mr. Pickering. Yes. We are in a critical race against2810China. And whatever we can do, especially on the multi-State2811energy deployments and fiber deployments, we need some type of2812national framework that consolidates reviews, accelerates2813reviews, and approves in a time-certain manner.2814    Mrs. Houchin. And to all the witnesses, if Congress could2815just pass one reform this year, whether it is related to2816permitting, interagency coordination, targeted incentives, what2817would have the greatest impact on unlocking AI's potential2818across the U.S. economy?2819    Mr. Pickering, I will start with you.2820    Mr. Pickering. Just remember, infrastructure, whether it2821was the internet infrastructure of the previous age, once we2822built fiber long-haul satellites that were digital, cable that2823was digital, and then we had all of the infrastructure in2824place, on the wireless and wired side, you could then do2825something like this.2826    The same thing is going to be true in AI applications. If2827you build the infrastructure that is now both energy and fiber2828and other broadband networks of all technologies, add the data2829center, it will unleash unlimited new research, new2830manufacturing, precision agriculture, and all of the different2831uses that we think will grow the economy.2832    Mrs. Houchin. Since my time has expired, agree? Disagree?2833    Mr. Vasishta. Agree.2834    Mr. Shea. Agree also.2835    Mr. Ramzanali. I would prioritize other things.2836    Mrs. Houchin. OK. Thank you. I yield back.2837    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Landsman for 52838minutes.2839    Mr. Landsman. Thank you, Madam Chair.2840    I want to talk about the satellite versus fiber broadband,2841you know, which seems to be at the heart of this conversation2842in terms of where we go long-term and whether or not we have2843the capacity. I want to pick up where you just left off, which2844is your different priorities. I would love to hear those as it2845relates to what we should be doing.2846    But the question I have, fair or not, is whether or not2847broadband and fiber, which we know matters more--it is more2848reliable, it is what is going to power all of this--versus2849satellite--that satellite has the advantage because of folks2850like Elon Musk, right? Because he has got Starlink, and this is2851what he is pushing. He has obviously got enormous influence.2852Maybe that has changed over the last 48 hours. I don't know.2853    Do you worry about this--that satellite will somehow, you2854know, get the best of us? You all? In terms of resources? Do2855you see that? Is this sort of a--just a Starlink thing? Where2856is the power coming from on the broadband fiber side?2857    Mr. Pickering, I would--and that is not a setup. I am just2858curious.2859    Mr. Pickering. So INCOMPAS has members that are fiber,2860wireless, fixed wireless, and LEO satellite, Amazon's Kuiper2861that just launched and is competing for broadband grants across2862the country and competing against Starlink. We think2863competition in LEOs and fiber and wireless and everything will2864make it better.2865    And we think that States having the flexibility to choose2866whatever technology is best for them--Colorado may need2867satellite, and other places could densify their fiber and their2868fixed wireless, and that might be a better combination. But we2869think the States should decide--look. The great thing is we2870have new deployments of new networks that I think are so much2871better on all fronts. Fiber is always going to be the2872foundational network that everything comes back to, wireless,2873fixed, and satellite.2874    Mr. Landsman. Fiber doesn't have at the moment--and I am2875not trying to be funny or--fiber doesn't have a, you know, the2876world's richest man saying, you know, ``Invest in fiber or2877broadband.'' And I agree. I mean, obviously every State is2878different. But we have to provide the regulatory and investment2879framework. And I am worried, as we all should be, that, you2880know, one guy and the thing that he owns, Starlink, is going to2881have more influence than what we know to be true, which is2882that, yes, every State is different, but for the most part,2883fiber and the broadband is the most reliable.2884    Can you just share what you were going to say? It was a2885good question in terms of where should we go and what we should2886be investing in. I just want to----2887    Mr. Ramzanali. It is a good question. I think you are right2888that--I would actually say the work has already been done. This2889subcommittee--this committee--this Congress passed the2890Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that had specific instructions on2891how to implement the law. The work was done to think about what2892that means for different technologies and the NTIA.2893    This administration has paused that. They want to revisit--2894they get the authority to put their policy priorities on top of2895it. But that work was done. That is how we got to a fiber2896preference.2897    The way I think about this historically is rural2898electrification. We got electricity to all of America. We would2899have never put up with a second-class technology for2900electricity going to rural Americans.2901    Mr. Landsman. That is a really good way to frame it. I do2902think speeding this up--I mean, we have to get this stuff out2903much more quickly. And so hopefully that bipartisan commitment2904is there and that will get to a good place because it goes2905beyond BEAD and everything else, but we have got to get things2906out much more quickly.2907    That is all. Thank you so much. I yield back.2908    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Goldman for 52909minutes.2910    Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the panel2911very much for being here today.2912    Mr. Vasishta, how is NVIDIA ensuring that AI use and2913telecom infrastructure is resistant to foreign interference,2914especially from adversarial state actors like China?2915    Mr. Vasishta. So NVIDIA, we build the infrastructure that2916enables the AI to be leveraged by our ecosystem of partners,2917whether it be original equipment manufacturers or telecom2918operators or people developing software.2919    So as the vulnerabilities of the layers of the applications2920and the software on top of that, a lot of our partners are2921building that in. What we have done, though, is we have built2922in the infrastructure underneath that to enable much of that--2923those software vulnerabilities to enable to be exposed.2924    And I will give you an example of what that means. Often,2925cybersecurity can be enabled and created by anomaly detection.2926There is a normal pattern of use and data, and then there's2927anomalies. And to be able to detect those anomalies fast and at2928line rate, meaning as they happen, can happen within that2929infrastructure that we build. We have some silicon capability2930that allows that to happen and the connectivity to allow that2931to happen, right at the edge of the network. So it doesn't have2932the opportunity to infiltrate into the cloud.2933    So that is just part of and just an example of some of the2934things that we are doing in working with our ecosystem.2935    Mr. Goldman. Thank you very much.2936    Mr. Pickering, Fort Worth in my district has a growing film2937industry, with over 550 million in economic impact since 2015.2938How can INCOMPAS's work on AI-driven network improvements, like2939better 5G and fiber connectivity, help support Fort Worth film2940studios with real-time virtual production and data-heavy post-2941production?2942    Mr. Pickering. Just like every sector of the economy, it is2943enabled by the network. It is enabled by the infrastructure.2944And if you have a creative movie production, the ability to use2945AI and then the networks will allow better quality, better2946performance, better distribution, and better and higher value.2947There is going to be great challenges as we look at the2948property rights and the intellectual property in this sector.2949But as far as the infrastructure that then enables every sector2950to grow, I am excited about the future for each sector.2951    Mr. Goldman. Great. Thank you very much.2952    And Mr. Shea, is DeepSig currently seeing any risk of IP2953theft or cyber infiltration targeting U.S. defense AI2954contractors? And what countermeasures are you developing?2955    Mr. Shea. No, we are very concerned with that. We are not2956aware of any exfiltrations have happened of our data, but we2957spend a lot of effort protecting our information, you know,2958having cyber threat detection in our network. But it is a major2959concern because we know AI technology is right at the forefront2960of where the world is going, both on the commercial and defense2961side. So it is a high priority for us.2962    Mr. Goldman. All right. Thank you very much.2963    Madam Chair, that is all I have. I yield back.2964    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Mr. Fry for 5 minutes.2965    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Madam Chair. You are doing a great job2966today, so appreciate that.2967    Mr. Pickering, I was perplexed a little bit. You were2968talking with Mrs. Houchin earlier about barriers that slow down2969AI-related infrastructure buildout. And two things that you2970mentioned were permitting reform and BEAD flexibility. And I2971think y'all talked about the BEAD flexibility a little bit. But2972specifically, when it comes to permitting reform, what do you2973envision that looking like from a specific policy standpoint?2974Like, what specifics----2975    Mr. Pickering. So I will give you an example of two2976successful permitting reforms that have happened in recent2977history. One was for the small sale deployments that went with29785G. We created a Federal framework with shot clocks and time2979certainty, and that if the jurisdiction did not approve within2980the time certain, it would be deemed granted.2981    And so the times of certainty and predictability is2982critical. ``One touch, make ready,'' which means that if one2983fiber deploys on a pole, that they do all the deployments at2984one time, one touch, instead of doing six different, you know,2985service trucks for each different company. And that accelerates2986the deployment of a long pole.2987    So there's some commonsense things, but everything is about2988one touch, did once, one review, time certainty, those types of2989principles on permitting reform. And if you can have national2990projects for grids, pipelines, transmission, fiber routes that2991are multi-State so that you can coordinate a whole-of-2992government approach to deploy the infrastructure that we need2993for the AI race against China.2994    Mr. Fry. At least when it comes to the permitting2995perspective of six different points, one different trigger--or2996one trigger, would that also--in your mind, if a permit was2997previously issued, say, a few years ago, would that also be2998almost grandfathered in, that you could use that existing2999permit for----3000    Mr. Pickering. I will give you an example. If you have3001multiple agencies--a lot of times, they will all require their3002own environmental review when you should just have one3003environmental review that would then be adequate for all the3004different agencies. And if you have a review that is a year ago3005or 2 years ago and then you have a new part of a construction,3006that previous review should be considered as adequate for the3007current project if it is not substantially different.3008    And so those types of commonsense reforms that I think can3009protect and preserve our resources and our communities and at3010the same time speed the deployment that everybody needs today.3011    Mr. Fry. Thank you. Thank you for that.3012    Mr. Vasishta, NVIDIA is on the frontlines of both AI and3013the telecom infrastructure. What role do you see for AI-native3014wireless networks in the transition to 6G, and how can Congress3015support companies leading that effort in that transition?3016    Mr. Vasishta. Thanks for the question.3017    As I said in my opening remarks, AI-native wireless is3018really what 6G is going to be about. And what I said earlier is3019that there is a requirement, really, for help between public/3020private partnership to make that a reality. We need a lot of3021research to come straight to production. So with this AI WIN3022Project that NVIDIA is part of with other companies, we are3023already embarking upon taking research from, say, Mitre to3024production with, say, T-Mobile as fast as possible and getting3025guidance from that.3026    A lot of that relies upon research that is coming out of3027the universities, and so the accelerant and the enablement of3028AI-native wireless research. There is only one other company--I3029said earlier China, but I really meant one other company that3030is kind of working on this AI-native approach, and that is3031Huawei, on the world stage. And so, once we are able to3032accelerate this within the U.S., we will then be able to take3033these same developed platforms out globally and once again be3034able to create a global platform for telecommunications within3035those standards committees.3036    Mr. Fry. Thank you for that.3037    You have emphasized software-defined networks as a game3038changer. How do these networks enhance both performance and3039cybersecurity compared to our traditional infrastructure?3040    Mr. Vasishta. Yes, so traditional infrastructure has more3041of a closed propriety system. Now, you might think that is a3042positive, but the benefit of having software defined is3043continuous integration, continuous deployment so you are able3044to add features very quickly, you are able to implement new3045capabilities much faster than if you had to do that in3046hardware.3047    AI-native approaches, like integrated sensing and3048communication, which can be--can be threat detection, you can3049really sense the airwaves for threats--that can be a software-3050defined feature that can be integrated by defense but also in3051commercial reason--commercial aspects.3052    Mr. Fry. Thank you for that. I see my time has expired.3053Madam Chair, I yield back.3054    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes Ms. Kelly for 53055minutes.3056    Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much.3057    I am very excited to see the emergence of artificial3058intelligence. However, like many emerging technologies, it3059needs to be implemented with care, weighing the risks posed to3060American consumers, like my constituents back home in Illinois.3061    As I discussed on a very long markup not too long ago, I3062joined many of my Democratic colleagues in concern about the3063reconciliation package including a 10-year moratorium on State3064and local enforcement of AI laws. Such a moratorium without3065Federal safeguards in place leaves Americans unprotected from3066data-driven discrimination in critical areas, such as housing,3067employment, credit, education, healthcare, and insurance.3068    It is crucial that we stop bowing to Big Tech and start3069doing our jobs to protect American consumers by addressing the3070potential for discriminatory outcomes, especially as AI3071technologies advance at an unprecedented pace, both3072domestically and internationally, which brings me to my next3073point. It is critical that the U.S. is positioned to win the3074race for global AI leadership, which I believe all of us want3075that.3076    Mr. Ramzanali, how will the BEAD Program's investment in3077futureproof internet infrastructure, like fiber, allow America3078to remain a world leader in AI innovation?3079    Mr. Ramzanali. I appreciate that question and your hard3080work in this area.3081    As I said in my opening, America can't lead in AI if all3082Americans don't have access to AI. The way that happens,3083especially as we think about where the technology might go that3084requires higher-capacity throughput, is through futureproof3085networks like fiber.3086    Ms. Kelly. Does anyone have anything else to add? No?3087    In your testimony, you state that AI's power and usefulness3088will be fundamentally limited if all Americans are not able to3089access that use AI. Recognizing this, how does the President's3090unilateral decision to stop funding programs providing digital3091skills, including AI training, to such groups as seniors,3092veterans, and the disabled jeopardize America's ability to3093innovate in AI ahead of places like China or the Middle East?3094    Mr. Ramzanali. The way to think about the Digital Equity3095Act programs--maybe I will give a couple of examples that were3096in the letter to the record that was submitted earlier. There3097is a program in rural Kentucky that was hoping for a digital3098equity grant that helps seniors with digital skills, including3099how to use the internet for job applications. They were3100helping--they were going to help the seniors also use AI in a3101way. And so that is one example.3102    Another example is in Hurricane Helene, the areas that3103experienced that disaster, they were doing device access. Those3104are the kinds of people that need our help in a time like that.3105To me, those kinds of programs deserve our support.3106    Ms. Kelly. Thank you. And I yield back.3107    Mrs. Fedorchak. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Kean3108for 5 minutes.3109    Mr. Kean. Thank you, Chairwoman. And thank you to our3110witnesses for being here today.3111    Mr. Shea, I recently heard from a constituent who lives in3112Warren County, a rural part of my district in New Jersey. Her3113small town is tucked between two steep ridges that flank either3114side of the Delaware River. Because of the unique geographic3115features of this area, she and her neighbors frequently have3116unreliable cell service and even difficulty reaching emergency3117services.3118    In your testimony, you discussed the cases of integrating3119AI technology into consumer wireless communications. What about3120for an application like--what about for an application like3121this? What integration of AI technology can help overcome the3122challenges posed by difficult geography, like this one, to keep3123people connected and able to reach first responders when3124needed?3125    Mr. Shea. Well, actually, the NTIA--first NOFO award we3126received was about how to come up with better ways of measuring3127the local environment to assure high-quality service. So I3128think with AI, what is called ``digital twin technology,'' we3129are getting a much better understanding of how signals3130propagate and where we can put in small cells to fill in these3131gaps.3132    So AI, I think, is going to be revolutionary for these type3133of applications where people have poor service. And I think we3134are going to be seeing the fruits of that technology within the3135next couple of years.3136    Mr. Kean. Thank you.3137    Mr. Pickering, in your testimony, you discuss how3138deployment of technologies, like fiber networks, is a necessary3139input to the management of AI applications. Given that3140responsibility for these regulations is shared among several3141different stakeholders, including the State and local level,3142how can Congress best facilitate smart, forward-looking3143policies that will enable us to compete in AI?3144    Mr. Pickering. I think there is a way in the permitting3145reforms that this committee will put forth that will respect3146the local jurisdictions and the counties and the States and how3147they have responsibilities on permitting. What we have tried to3148do as an industry is to create a blueprint of best practices3149and then find voluntary incentives and community engagement.3150But on national deployments, multi-State, I do think that there3151is a rural and across Federal lands and Federal properties that3152this committee can really speed and accelerate the time to3153deploy.3154    I have been talking earlier, we are in a race with China.3155We need to build as fast as possible. They are not having3156permitting delays like we have, if they have permitting at all.3157    And so we need to find a way to speed at every level and3158give the resources and the technology and the tools and the3159incentives for the best practices with time certainty,3160transparency, and the best technology tools to permit as fast3161as possible.3162    Mr. Kean. Thank you.3163    Mr. Vasishta, I agree with you as to the critical3164importance to making sure the United States is a leader in the3165future of wireless communications on the global stage. What3166steps do we need to take to make sure that American innovators3167are leading on AI within international standard-setting bodies?3168    Mr. Vasishta. So let me take that as a telecommunications3169question.3170    Firstly, as we start to look at the definition of the 6G3171standards, which has already started to happen, America needs3172to have a very strong voice in the 6G standards, both3173corporately as well as from the NTIA. And I think that is3174starting to happen. But we need to really double down on that3175to make sure that as we define those standards, those standards3176are defined in a way that is meaningful to our advancement as3177well as AI RAN, as we call it, which is the infusion of AI and3178the radio access network. And as I said before, that is3179probably something that many others are not really thinking3180about. But it gives us, within the U.S., the opportunity to3181take that leadership position because we have that AI3182leadership position.3183    The other thing, of course, is to make sure that we have3184most of, if not all, the developers in the world developing AI3185on America infrastructure. That is very important. Many3186developers around the world don't reside within the U.S., but3187we need to make sure they have access to that American3188infrastructure because that is what improves the capability and3189the performance of our AI.3190    Mr. Kean. Thank you. I yield back.3191    Mrs. Fedorchak. The Chair recognizes myself for 5 minutes.3192    So AI has been described as not only a powerful tool but an3193incredible weapon. And I don't feel like the public necessarily3194understands that or sees it exactly that way. But given that3195China today produces 10,000 terawatt hours of power a year and3196the U.S. produces 4,000 terawatt hours of power a year, we are3197already quite behind.3198    So given this, I am wondering, you know, do you share this3199concern, Mr. Pickering, about maybe China being in a better3200position? If so, what do we need to do about that? And then3201also, to comfort me and my colleagues, what barriers is China3202facing in their deployment of AI?3203    Mr. Pickering. So far, you know, our country--as you look3204at what is powering the data centers that are running the large3205language models' intensive energy demand, I think new solutions3206that would bring behind-the-meter or dedicated energy to the3207data center is a critical reform that is needed to meet the3208demand needs today that would not overtax the existing grid and3209the residential customer. So that is one solution.3210    Too, as we have talked about the permitting reforms--and3211this committee in reconciliation has something that addresses3212multi-State pipeline construction and being able to have a3213consolidated review and a time-certain review on that.3214    As we look at traditional energy meeting current demand,3215how can we also look at future options and solutions? And SMR3216technology, the small modular nuclear reactors, fusion3217technology, those types of things that can give us clean3218energy, reliable, abundant energy, and a very small footprint3219that is much safer and much more sustainable--getting those3220technologies as quickly as possible into the market. So X-3221energy is one of our member companies that has a big agreement3222with AWS and Dominion utility in Northern Virginia. It came out3223of one of our DOE labs. It is an amazing advancement in nuclear3224technologies, very similar to what we do in our nuclear fleets.3225    And so those types of new solutions long term. But in the3226short term, building as fast as we can, and all-of-the-above3227strategy, and giving data centers the ability to have behind-3228the-meter solutions or dedicated solutions for the demand3229today.3230    And no, China does not have barriers or impediments that we3231do.3232    Mrs. Fedorchak. Shoot. I was hoping there were a few, at3233least.3234    I have questions for a few other of you, but I do want to3235invite you all--my office--I am very concerned about having the3236power to meet the demand of the moment for AI, and so my office3237is leading an AI energy working group, and I would invite all3238of you to participate in it. I know, Mr. Pickering, you are,3239and hopefully others are as well. But we are very much working3240on this framework of solutions to meet the energy needs.3241    Mr. Shea, you haven't gotten a question for a bit. I wanted3242to ask you, from your vantage point as a smaller innovator,3243what are the specific barriers to deploying AI-driven wireless3244infrastructure, especially in rural underserved areas, and what3245kind of changes could Congress bring about to help that to3246address those barriers?3247    Mr. Shea. I think for Congress to continue the push at ORAN3248is probably the most help that can be provided because we are3249finding the ORAN vendors we work with more forward looking on3250AI. They are looking for ways to leapfrog technology, which is3251what we need to compete with China. So I think the openness of3252that type of standard is what is key to make this all happen3253quickly.3254    Mrs. Fedorchak. Excellent.3255    And, Mr. Ram-za-me--how do you say your name?3256    Mr. Ramzanali. ``Ram-za-nall-ee.''3257    Mrs. Fedorchak. Ramzanali. You stated with Mr. Menendez3258that the moratorium--or Mr. Menendez stated that the moratorium3259on new State regulations that we included in the One Big3260Beautiful Bill erodes the current frameworks passed by States,3261and you agreed with that statement. So help me understand how3262that is so when the moratorium is on new regulations and3263doesn't do anything to the existing regulations that States3264have already enacted.3265    Mr. Ramzanali. So there's questions about how it applies to3266privacy laws that are being--privacy bills that are being3267considered and privacy laws that exist, because some of them3268use definitions for automated systems that could be caught up3269in the way that the bill is written. That is one way that it3270could directly go at the privacy concerns.3271    Mrs. Fedorchak. But you agree that the moratorium is on3272States developing new regulations, not the existing ones.3273    Mr. Ramzanali. I would have to read it more closely, but I3274believe there has been some debate about how that would be3275applied. And that is the kind of thing that would take a while3276for courts to work out too.3277    Mrs. Fedorchak. OK.3278    Let's see. Seeing there are no further Members wishing to3279be recognized, I would like to thank our witnesses for being3280here today. I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the3281documents included on the staff hearing documents list. Without3282objection, that will be the order.3283    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]3284    Mrs. Fedorchak. I remind Members they have 10 business days3285to submit questions for the record, and I ask the witnesses to3286respond to the questions promptly. Members should submit their3287questions by the close of business on Wednesday, July 18th.3288    Without objection, the subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you3289all.3290    [Whereupon, at 1:23 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]3291    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]3292   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]32933294                                 [all]