Assessing the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR)

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                 ENERGY AND WATER DEVELOPMENT5                   APPROPRIATIONS FOR 20266_______________________________________________________________________78                                 HEARINGS910                                 BEFORE A1112                           SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE1314                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS1516                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1718                     ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1920                              FIRST SESSION21                                __________2223             SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND WATER DEVELOPMENT, AND24                              RELATED AGENCIES2526           CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISHMANN, Tennessee, Chairman2728  MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho29  KEN CALVERT, California30  DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington31  GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania32  MICHAEL GUEST, Mississippi33  MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas,34    Vice Chair35  SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida36  CELESTE MALOY, Utah3738  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio,39    Ranking Member40  JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina41  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida42  MIKE LEVIN, California43  FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana44  SUSIE LEE, Nevada4546  NOTE: Under committee rules, Mr. Cole, as chairman of the full47committee, and Ms. DeLauro, as ranking minority member of the full48committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.4950               Laura Cylke, Perry Yates, Richie O'Connell,51                     Raynor Buckley and Sykes Connell52                            Subcommittee Staff5354                                  PART 255                                 __________5657                                                                   Page58  Members' Day................................................        15960[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]6162                                 __________6364          Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations65                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE6667  61-939                    WASHINGTON : 202668------------------------------------------------------------------------------69                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS7071                                ----------72                      TOM COLE, Oklahoma, Chairman7374  HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky,75    Chairman Emeritus76  ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama77  MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho78  JOHN R. CARTER, Texas79  KEN CALVERT, California80  MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida81  STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas82  CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISCHMANN,83    Tennessee84  DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio85  ANDY HARRIS, Maryland86  MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada87  DAVID G. VALADAO, California88  DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington89  JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan90  JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida91  BEN CLINE, Virginia92  GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania93  ASHLEY HINSON, Iowa94  TONY GONZALES, Texas95  JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana96  MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas97  MICHAEL GUEST, Mississippi98  RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana99  ANDREW S. CLYDE, Georgia100  STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma101  SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida102  JAKE ELLZEY, Texas103  JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona104  CHUCK EDWARDS, North Carolina105  MARK ALFORD, Missouri106  NICK LaLOTA, New York107  DALE W. STRONG, Alabama108  CELESTE MALOY, Utah109  RILEY M. MOORE, West Virginia110111  ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut,112    Ranking Member113  STENY H. HOYER, Maryland114  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio115  JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina116  SANFORD D. BISHOP, Jr., Georgia117  BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota118  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida119  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas120  CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine121  MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois122  GRACE MENG, New York123  MARK POCAN, Wisconsin124  PETE AGUILAR, California125  LOIS FRANKEL, Florida126  BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey127  NORMA J. TORRES, California128  ED CASE, Hawaii129  ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York130  JOSH HARDER, California131  LAUREN UNDERWOOD, Illinois132  SUSIE LEE, Nevada133  JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York134  MIKE LEVIN, California135  MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania136  VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas137  FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana138  MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ,139    Washington140  GLENN IVEY, Maryland141142                Susan Ross, Chief Clerk and Staff Director143144                                   (II)145146 ENERGY AND WATER DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR147                                  2026148149                                            Tuesday, April 8, 2025.150151                              MEMBERS' DAY152153    Mr. Fleischmann. The hearing will come to order. Good154morning. I would like to welcome everyone to today's Energy and155Water Member Day hearing.156    Today, our fellow members will have the opportunity to157testify on issues under the jurisdiction of this subcommittee158that are important to them. Each witness will have 5 minutes to159present their testimony. Members of the subcommittee will then160have the opportunity to ask questions if they would like to do161so.162    I know everyone has busy schedules today, so I will forego163any extended remarks. I look forward to learning more from our164colleagues on their priorities for the fiscal 2026 energy and165water bill.166    At this time, I would like to recognize my friend, Ms.167Kaptur, for any opening remarks she would like to make. Ms.168Kaptur.169    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Chairman Fleischmann, and thank you170to our colleagues who come before us today. We appreciate very171much the time you have taken to be here and advocate for your172communities. And I look forward to hearing your priorities,173learning more about your part of the country, including Federal174programs of importance to you and your district.175    I yield back.176    Mr. Fleischmann. I would like to thank the ranking member.177    We will now turn to our witnesses. First up, I would like178to welcome Congressman Randy Weber from the State of Texas. Mr.179Weber, you are recognized for 5 minutes, sir.180                              ----------181182                                            Tuesday, April 8, 2025.183184                                WITNESS185186HON. RANDY K. WEBER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF187    TEXAS188    Mr. Weber. Thank you. Are we on? We are on. Okay. Well,189good morning, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Kaptur, and the190Ranking Member DeLauro and Cole, Chairman Cole, who I don't191see, but I am Randy Weber. I have the great honor of192representing Texas 14th District, which is the Gulf Coast of193Texas, starting at the Louisiana line and going down the curve194of Texas.195    Let me tell you, my district is not just a dot on the map,196nor is it just a curve. It is the beating heart of American197energy, trade, and security. Why do I say that? Texas 14 is198home to some of the largest refineries in the Nation. We export199American produced LNG through three major terminals. We operate200the most strategic military port in the country. We move more201military personnel and equipment out of the country than any202other port in the United States. On every day, our seven ports203operate pipelines and ship channels. We keep the American204economy running and keep our military supplied and keep our205military moving, quite frankly.206    But here is the hard truth. If we don't invest in the207deepening and strengthening of these waterways, if we let them208degrade, they silt in, as most of y'all will know. Then what is209the point of all this energy production? Because we can't move210it out. What good is having oil and gas if we can't move it out211safely and efficiently? What good is an American energy212dominance if the infrastructure support is crumbling? We will213fall woefully behind.214    The Sabine-Neches Waterway is the longest waterway in the215Gulf Coast, second only to the Mississippi River. Okay? It is216the most critical waterway, one of the most critical waterway217systems in our country. The impact of the Sabine-Neches218Waterway is undeniable. The waterway moves over, check this219out, 194 million tons of cargo every single year. And it is the220largest crude oil and LNG exporter in the Nation.221    The waterway has not undergone any improvements in over 50,2225-0, years. And improving this waterway by deepening the223channel from 40 feet to 48 feet will allow larger ships to come224up into the channel and get the cargo a lot more quicker and a225lot more efficiently, unleashing the power of American energy226by enabling future growth and increases in shipping volumes,227which helps with trade, by the way.228    The Port of Galveston, one of my other reports, operating229since 1825, believe it or not, it was formed by the Mexican230government before Texas won its independence in 1836, is a231vital commercial hub in my district, handling both cargo, not232only cargo, but energy, but cruise traffic, cruise terminals.233We have a lot of cruises out of Galveston. Each year Galveston234port moves over 4 million tons of cargo and welcomes over 1235million cruise passengers every year.236    To stay competitive and accommodate modern fleets, channel237dredging and harbor improvements are absolutely essential. Not238to mention, we also have what is called Coastal Texas239Protection and Restoration Project, which is necessary for the240Gulf Coast because we have so many hurricanes. We are prone to241so many hurricanes. That project is to reduce the risk for242storm surge for the millions of folks and the energy businesses243who live on the coast and work our very critical industries244that keep the U.S. up and running.245    The Texas Legislature, y'all, understands that investing in246our future--in that infrastructure is investing in our future.247That is why the State of Texas has stepped up with funding for248the Brazos River floodgates, which are critical structures on249the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway that has been in place since the2501940s. 1940s. And they are long overdue for modernization. Now251it is time for the Federal Government to do its part by252allowing the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to accept the funds253that Texas has already committed.254    And finally, we must stay ahead in small modular nuclear255technology. Southeast Texas is ready to lead, but we need256continued support to ensure the U.S. remains at the forefront,257not playing catch up to China or Russia.258    So to recap let me say this. We must fully fund the Sabine-259Neches Waterway Channel Improvement Project. We must deepen the260Galveston ship channel. We must advance the Coastal Texas261Barrier Protection and Restoration Project. And we must upgrade262the Brazos River floodgates. And yes, we must continue to263support nuclear demonstration projects as part of the all of264the above strategy to meet rising global demand.265    So to my esteemed colleagues, thank you for having me here266today. Let's not talk about energy dominance and then fail to267fund the very arteries that make it possible. Let me reiterate.268If we are going to talk about we need to be energy dominant and269the leader in the world, let's not fail to fund the very270arteries that make it possible. Let's back up our principles271with action. Y'all have the capability and the power to do272that. I respectfully ask for your full and fair consideration273of these vital projects.274    And with that, I will yield back or welcome any questions.275    [The information follows:]276    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]277278    Mr. Fleischmann. I thank the gentleman, my friend from279Texas, for an excellent presentation. I have no questions at280this time.281    Ms. Kaptur.282    Ms. Kaptur. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I am going to take the time283because I am interested in this. I never been to Galveston or284your part of Texas, Congressman Weber. But they provided us285with a little map here, and I wish it were larger, but tell us286a little bit more about your district. And obviously, the287energy economy is the leading----288    Mr. Weber. Yes, ma'am.289    Ms. Kaptur Economic activity----290    Mr. Weber. Yes, ma'am.291    Ms. Kaptur [continuing]. Of your district.292    Mr. Weber. And NASA, just for information. Actually, the293Johnson Space Center was in Dr. Brian Babin's district, half a294mile north of mine. Seventy-five hundred people who either work295for NASA and/or its subcontractors live in my district. So not296only is energy very, very, very huge, so is space.297    It is an extremely, what should I say, long district,298Congresswoman Kaptur. I don't know how long yours is, but mine299is 160 miles from the Louisiana border down to the southwest300end. So the gasoline--the oil companies love me because we301traverse that on every weekend.302    Ms. Kaptur. All right. Well, that is a long district. And I303wanted to just shift over a little bit if I could. LNG, I look304at your region, and I think about all the storms that have305occurred in Texas. Has your district been a victim of the306hurricanes and the changing climate at all?307    Mr. Weber. I have been here. I have the gray hair to prove308it. I was 8 years old in 1961 when Hurricane Carla hit the309Texas Gulf Coast and I have been through every single hurricane310since that time. And believe it or not, not only do we have311hurricanes, but we also have Galveston Island for the first312time in my life, I am 71 years old. I have lived in a 20-mile313radius, had 16 degrees on the island last winter. Winter Storm314Uri, if you remember, from February of 2021, we had 18 degrees.315So we have had a lot of weather patterns change and it is a316huge district and we see a lot of weather.317    Ms. Kaptur. And do you see those changing weather patterns318having an impact on access or egress from your ports?319    Mr. Weber. Well, yes, they do, of course, when things are320cold. For example, and I know y'all live up north, I am not321sure about Tennessee, I think that y'all's, you can tell I am322from Texas, y'all, I think y'all's buildings are built to323withstand very cold temperatures. Ours are built more to324withstand high, you know, warm temperatures and hurricanes,325too. But a lot of things happen. Traffic gets snarled, the326roads get icy, pipes break. So when you have really cold327winters, it will affect the people in our district.328    And when you have a hurricane approaching and the news is329saying y'all need to evacuate, unfortunately, and this is true330in just about every district I see on TV, I say people, y'all331need to evacuate, people are quite slow to evacuate, and so the332roads get clogged very easily. So weather definitely affects333us.334    Ms. Kaptur. And what about coastal erosion in your region?335    Mr. Weber. Coastal erosion is something that we deal with.336But USACE, United States Army Corps of Engineers, and the337Galveston Flood Control District, we have an agreement with338what they do is they renourish the beach sands. So when they do339projects and when they do dredge, and, quite frankly, that is a340great question, because when they do dredge out these long 40-341something-mile channels, then they can actually renourish the342beach with that sand that they took from dredging.343    Ms. Kaptur. And some of our coasts, we have had real, real344challenges with coastal erosion----345    Mr. Weber. Yes, ma'am.346    Ms. Kaptur [continuing]. Of a major proportion. So I was347just curious about your region.348    Final question. I am one of the members that cares about349nuclear waste. I know our chairman does, too. And having350thought about nuclear power, do you have suggestions? I think I351read, I believe, that Texas has disallowed storage of nuclear352waste. Have you ever heard anybody in Texas who is interested353in this challenge?354    Mr. Weber. Well, yes, I have. Some of you probably won't355know, but I spent 4 years in the Texas legislature before I got356demoted to Congress. And we actually had waste control357specialties out in Andrews County, far West Texas, which they358wanted that facility. The community wanted it. The chamber of359commerce wanted it. The city fathers wanted it. At some point360in time, they changed their mind. They said they didn't want it361anymore. So there is been that.362    I have actually been there and visited with my own eyes in3632010, I think it was. Very futuristic, huge concrete barriers,364huge rooms, and stuff like that, so they can--come on in, Mr.365Acosta. And so we have had that discussion.366    And Chairman Fleischmann knows this, that we have a nuclear367event every month we are in session, about one a month over at368the Capitol Hill Club, bipartisan, where we have Republicans369and Democrats come talk to members--come talk to businesses. We370have had people from the EPA, we have had people from the371State--retired people from State Department, we have had people372from industries that come. It is nonattributable. We don't let373all this stuff out. There is no sales going on. Nobody is374trying to sell us into a product or something like that.375    We are talking about all the pathways and all the things376that are growing. In other words, we are learning that there is377more and more. For example, how France reproduces their nuclear378waste. We could do the same thing. We had that discussion every379month. I would invite all of you, and I know Chuck knows this.380He is one that really got me involved. He is good at it, too,381by the way.382    Ms. Kaptur. Yes, he is.383    Mr. Weber. But I would invite you all to come because it is384really fascinating when you listen to it. And I forgot to say385this. When I was in the Texas legislature for 4 years, I had a386nuclear project in my district, South Texas Nuclear Project387down in Matagorda County. I have been there in 2010 and watched388them change out spent fuel rods with my own eyes. It is389fascinating. They can do it cleanly, they can do it safely.390    Ms. Kaptur. Well, that I got to make it over to the Capitol391Hill Club, Mr. Chairman. You got to help us.392    Mr. Fleischmann. You are always welcome. And many of your393colleagues, Madam Ranking Member, come over. And Mr. Weber is394absolutely right. They are not only very convivial discussions,395very substantive, and help us do our work, and you are always396welcome. I know Mr. Simpson has joined some of those, but Mr.397Weber is there just about every month. In fact, there is one, I398think, tomorrow night.399    Mr. Weber. Yep. And so Bill Foster, he comes quite400regularly and he always reminds us he is the only physicist----401    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes.402    Mr. Weber [continuing]. In the House.403    Mr. Fleischmann. And Mr. Levin from this committee----404    Mr. Weber. Yes, absolutely.405    Mr. Fleischmann [continuing]. From California is a406mainstay. But thank you.407    And at this time I think my distinguished colleague,408chairman of the Interior Subcommittee of Appropriations and409former chair of this subcommittee, Mr. Simpson, would like to410ask a question.411    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Randy, I fully agree with you on412the future of energy and SMRs and advanced design reactors that413we are working on and stuff, not only for this country, but,414frankly, for around the world. This committee is obviously very415aware of that and been funding those projects as we can.416    Let me ask you about dredging, though. You have, I think417every year you have come in and told us how important this is.418What is the status of it now? Is the Army--because in the419committee, we generally fund the Army Corps of Engineer420dredging. We also do some specific projects if people request421an earmark. Are you going to request an earmark for dredging in422that area this year or--excuse me, it is community----423    Mr. Weber. Project funding. Not that I keep up with that.424    Mr. Simpson. Project funding. It is one of those things425that I scratch all that earmark stuff out.426    Mr. Weber. Well, I am, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that427question.428    And here is the thing. Remember I said in my comments, 40429years that channel has not been dredged out and the USACE,430United States Army Corps of Engineers, helps, but there is a431lot of red tape and bureaucratic hoops that they have to jump432through. The Sabine-Neches Navigation District is the district433that controls that. And they had an abnorm tax income. In other434words, they are a taxing entity.435    The people of Jefferson County, we call it Southeast Texas,436their jurisdiction, literally have contributed hundreds of437millions of dollars. They have, and you know this, these438projects, they require a local sponsor. Usually it is 25439percent. Sabine-Neches Navigation District, and we were with440Russ Vought yesterday over in the House, the President's Office441of Management and Budgets at OMB, and the Sabine-Neches442Waterway Navigation District was there with us. They literally443stepped up to the plate and said, we will not contribute 25444percent. We will contribute 40 percent. And we are talking445hundreds of millions of dollars. It is a 1.1- or $2 billion446project. And they have already started the work. They have447already started the engineering.448    And so now what we need is the United States Congress to449step up and say, look, for the number one energy export, not450only energy, but don't forget I said military, too, number one,451energy and military exporting port in the country, we really452need to do this.453    There is a process, and this is more than y'all bargained454for, so forgive me, there is a process where ships, when you455have VLCC, very large crude containers, that are coming into456the, into the Gulf there, the draft they take is they are not457allowed to come up into that channel because it needs to be458dredged to 48 feet. So they sit offshore and they have these459smaller vessels come up one at a time and offload some of the460crude, for example, and then work their way up the channel,461which is extremely busy. And they dock up and they drop their462load, if you will, offload their cargo. Then they got to go463back out the channel, which is 48 miles to the port of464Beaumont, by the way, from the Gulf Coast. They got to go back465to the VLCC, load up again. You see what is happening.466    If the channel was dredged, we could bring more product in467and out a lot quicker. And God forbid that we have a problem468where we need our military to get in high gear very quickly. It469would enable them to do so more efficiently.470    Mr. Simpson. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a very efficient471way to do it the way we are doing it now. And it has got to be472costly to offload out in the Gulf and then----473    Mr. Weber. Well, absolutely. And I will tell you, Mr.474Chairman, one of the things that we did, was it 2 or 3 years475ago, we had to change the visa program because a lot of these476ships bring sailors from other countries. And they can go477ashore, and I think I forget exactly what the figures were,478they had a 20-day visa or whatever it was, and they weren't479in--I mean, the ship might be out there 3 or 4 weeks. And y'all480will never know this unless you come to Galveston. But when you481come across the causeway from Houston across the bay, Galveston482Bay, you can see the Galveston Island. You can see out in the483Gulf. And if it is at night, you can see probably 30 or 40484ships because of their lights----485    Mr. Simpson. Yeah.486    Mr. Weber [continuing]. Lined up, all waiting to get in.487So, you say, well, gosh, 20 days. You would think they would488get in and out. They would if it was, you know, two or three489ships a day. But it is like 30 or 40, I bet, a day, if not490more.491    Mr. Simpson. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I, like Marcy,492I have never been to Galveston, but I just read a book on the493big hurricane that wiped out----494    Mr. Weber. The storm of 1900.495    Mr. Simpson. Yeah, it was 1900.496    Mr. Weber. It was almost, depends on whose figures you use,4976,000 people or 8,000 people, and they raised the entire island498of Galveston 9 feet.499    Mr. Simpson. Yeah.500    Mr. Weber. They brought in some of those dredge boats,501Ranking Member Kaptur was talking about, and they raised that502whole island nine feet.503    Mr. Simpson. Yep. But it was good for Houston because504Houston and Galveston were in competition to be the main port505and stuff.506    Mr. Weber. Well, I am still trying--you have to come up507through the Galveston Bay to get up the channel and into508Houston. I am trying to figure out how I can get some toll arms509there where we can participate in their freight, too.510    Mr. Simpson. Well, thank you.511    Mr. Weber. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.512    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate it.513    Mr. Fleischmann. And again, I thank Mr. Weber for his514testimony today before us, sir.515    At this time, I would like to welcome Congressman Jim Costa516from the State of California. Mr. Costa, you are recognized for5175 minutes, sir.518                              ----------519520                                            Tuesday, April 8, 2025.521522                                WITNESS523524HON. JIM COSTA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF525    CALIFORNIA526    Mr. Costa. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking527Member Kaptur and my neighbor Mr. Simpson, for allowing me to528testify before the subcommittee. We have important work that we529share. I look forward to working with the subcommittee on goals530of deploying technologies for better reservoir management,531advancing western water storage projects, and upgrading our532aging infrastructure that we are challenged with.533    Let me begin with the Water Operations Technical Support534Program that the subcommittee has supported in the past.535Clearly, with, you know, the changes that we have in weather536patterns, atmospheric rivers constitute more and more a source537of water for our regions in the West and certainly in538California. The Operations Technical Support Program and the539Forecast-Informed Reservoir Operations Program cannot be540overstated.541    For an example, in California we get most of our moisture542between end of November and the end of March. The first 3543months of this year were below average. And we measure our544rainfall in California, but elsewhere, in 10-year averages545because sometimes you have an average, you have above average,546you have below average. So the 10-year averages we have noticed547in the last two decades have changed dramatically. And our548reservoirs were built over a period of the last 60 to 80 years549with flood management manuals that reflected what they thought550were the 10-year averages back when these reservoirs were551built. Across the West, 40 to 60 percent of our precipitation552is now brought to us by these extreme atmospheric rivers553events, meaning that an entire water may hinge on two major554storms.555    We saw an example of that here in the last month. We were556way below averages in the middle of February. And then we got557two large atmospheric river events back in late February and558early March. And now in Northern California we are above559average and in the center of the state, where I represent, we560are slightly below average. Nonetheless, the Army Corps of561Engineers needs to incorporate this latest data to try to562determine how they can balance their flood control manual so563that we can try to reserve as much space possible for these564atmospheric rivers when they come.565    The seasonal forecasting observations now become a critical566tool for reservoir operations. These tools empower western567reservoirs to track and to respond to major precipitation568events while retaining water that otherwise might be released.569So this gives us a more reliability factor. I requested this570subcommittee in previous years, and I do once again this year,571to provide $15 million for fiscal year 2026 and $15 million for572the Fire Row program. These two areas are very helpful in573better managing the reservoirs that we have in the West.574    Separately, the WIIN Act storage program related to this575recent winter storms in March helped increase the levels of the576snowpack in the Northern Sierra Mountains. And although climate577change continues to be a challenge, it oftentimes causes578prolonged periods of droughts. The funds are necessary for579increasing water storage across Western reclamation states to580better manage our reservoirs. Such investments are necessary to581capture water during the wet years so we can withstand the dry582years.583    So I urge the committee for the full funding of the $134584million Water Infrastructure Investment for the Nation.585Congressman Kevin McCarthy and I worked on this a few years586back and continue to want to maintain this good investment.587    Also before the subcommittee, report language for the588repair of the Bureau of Reclamation canals. As we know in the589West, water is the lifeblood of the West. And where we say590water flows, food grows. We have two major aqueduct systems,591the Friant-Kern Canal and the Delta Mendota Canal, and the592California Aqueduct that have all been impaired by age and land593subsidence, seriously depleting their ability to move water.594These defects seriously jeopardize the Bureau of Reclamation's595ability to meet its obligations in the San Joaquin Valley to596feed our Nation, where we have one of the largest agricultural597valleys in the entire world.598    So we need to provide additional support to restore the599capability of these canals. We urge the committee to advance600the important projects by supporting report language of up to601$30 million to repair the reclamation canals in fiscal year6022026.603    Protecting the San Joaquin River Restoration Program that604we passed in 2008 to resolve a settlement of a court agreement.605The San Joaquin River Restoration Program aims to restore and606maintain not only fish populations in San Joaquin River, but to607reduce the adverse water supply impacts to the farmers in the608Friant Division. They wholeheartedly support this effort. The609program is not as far along as we'd like and it is very610critical that we continue to provide support. The farmers are611providing their support, as are the water districts, to ensure612that we don't throw the management of the San Joaquin River613into chaos and uncertainty. So I would urge the committee to614avoid any efforts to eliminate this program which was enacted,615as I said, back in 2008, to complete the final two projects616here on this.617    Because our river systems in California are connected618between the Federal projects and the state water projects, we619have two anadromous fish screens on the Sacramento River. I620request that the committee provide $7.8 million in funding to621finish these projects and to meet the higher quality standards622and to protect our ability to move water between the623Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and the San Joaquin River Basin,624moving water further south to the San Joaquin Valley into Los625Angeles.626    Ninety-five percent of the water diverted from the627Sacramento River will pass through these fish screens. That is628most of the river. These projects help support a more629resilient, reliable water supply for agricultural communities630while enhancing the environment for local wildlife that are631considered threatened.632    Finally, in closing, I want to thank the members of the633subcommittee again for the chance to testify and continue to634work for closer collaboration between the Army Corps of635Engineers, the Bureau of Reclamation, and California State636Water Project. This collaboration has been a history over the637last 30, 40 years. And with all the challenges we are facing,638it is absolutely essential.639    There was a unfortunate release back in late January,640February on two Army Corps projects, like Success and Kaweah.641And we want to avoid those kinds of miscalculations of release642of water when there is no good place for it to go to.643    And so I thank you for hearing my request. I will be644willing to answer any questions you might have. Keep up the645good work of this subcommittee. Thank you.646    [The information follows:]647    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]648649    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Costa, for your testimony,650sir. At this time I have no questions, sir, but I would like to651yield to the distinguished ranking member, Ms. Kaptur, to see652if she has any questions.653    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congressman654Costa, thanks so much for testifying today. I believe you are a655farmer yourself.656    Mr. Costa. Yes, third generation. And very proud of the657fact that my grandparents came to this country, like a lot of658immigrants, with a deep desire to have a better life. And what659they knew from where they came from in the Azore Islands was660dairy. And came to California and got involved in the dairy661business, like a lot of other folks, first as milking cows and662then later having our own dairy. And then that expanded to our663ability to farm a lot of other types of crops that, you know,664the San Joaquin Valley in California, as you know, is the665largest producer of agricultural production: 20 percent of all666the milk in the country comes from California, 80 percent of667the citrus production, 75 percent of the world's supply of668almonds, walnuts, and pistachios come from California. Very669diverse. And $59.2 billion last year at the farm gate.670    So if I didn't have this job, I do have some redeemable671skills. I could get a job working in any dairy.672    Ms. Kaptur. Well, I am put you on the hot spot here. About673three-quarters of a century ago, our favorite uncle and aunt674moved from our hometown just south of San Francisco. They went675out there to work with Dole and Libby and some of the big676processors of fruits and vegetables. And that was terrible for677me as a kid to, you know, to lose them in our own neighborhood.678But anyway, how has agriculture changed in the last century in679your region?680    I know what happened in the area they lived in. All the681apricot trees were cut down for people. Lots of big682superhighways came through and it became much more expensive to683live in California. Their neighbors, actually three families684live there and they would each 8 hours of the day a different685family would go to work and the next one would come home from686work. And housing became very expensive.687    What has happened to agriculture in your part of America in688this period of time?689    Mr. Costa. Well, as a third generation farmer, I thank you690for asking the question. Change is constant. Change is constant691not only in California, but around the country. And I don't692farm the way my father and my uncle did. And they did not farm693the way their father did. And those that are able to stay694involved in agriculture have to address changes to maintain695generations in farming. And in some cases those changes are696very difficult.697    For example, we have been overdrafting our groundwater698supply in California, but other parts of the country have had699that problem as well. Because we get our water from three700sources. We get it from the reservoirs that we have built in701our mountains where the snow is and it melts and it fills up702our reservoirs. We get it from groundwater and we get it from703reusing water. We use all the water tools in our water toolbox.704However, for decades we have been over relying on our705groundwater.706    And I liken that to when I first went to Fresno State as a707younger guy and I had my first checking account. And my father708told me, kid, you can only write those checks as long as you709are making deposits. Well, that is our groundwater. And so we710have to figure out strategies to ensure that we don't overdraft711it. And we have been doing that in California since we passed a712challenging law in 2014 by the state legislature that set up713milestones in 2020, 2030, and 2040 to get our groundwater in714balance. And we are meeting those goals. But it is hard.715    Ms. Kaptur. How far down do you have to drill now compared716to before?717    Mr. Costa. Depends what region you are. In my area we have718a better supply for a combination of reasons. It is about 150719feet. But out on the west side they are drilling down as far as7201,500 feet, 2,000 feet at over a million and a half dollars per721well. And what happens is the clay layers below on the surface722when you remove that water out of there collapse and then it723limits your ability to restore that groundwater in the future724when you have good water years.725    But we are using, we are learning to use, when we have726these atmospheric rivers in the wintertime to flood our fields727where we have permanent crops, whether they be trees or728vineyards. And we are having good success. We think in the last72918 months we have recharged between about 1.6 million acre feet730of water, which is a lot of water. We have seen certain places731where the water table has risen anywhere from 8 to 10 to 15732feet in the last 2 years. So it is a long-term effort, but we733are focused on it.734    But there is other things. The dairy industry, Costa735Brothers sold out a number of years ago, over 30 years ago, and736there were 16,000 dairies in California. Average size was737milking 250 cows, which is what about we were milking and had a738herd size of about 500 head. Today there is just around 1,000739dairies left in California out of 14,000, but they are much740larger. We are milking 2- to 3,000 cows average in a dairy;7415,000 cow dairies are not unusual. And so the change is, and742the change is hard, is you have had to get bigger in terms of743the scales of economy to stay in the dairy business. We are744still producing about 20 percent of all the milk products in745America with those 1,000-plus dairies, but they are much larger746in size and they take a lot more resources. They are747multimillion-dollar operations these days.748    And those are among the changes. And our cropping patterns749have changed. We used to have about 1.4 million acres of cotton750up into the early 1990s. Now, last year, I think we had 150,000751acres of cotton, but it had been replaced with walnuts,752pistachios, and almonds. Permanent crops.753    So these are among the changes. Our processing, our value754added has changed. Our mechanization has changed. Most of the755agriculture in California, like in other parts of the country756has become highly mechanized because of labor issues, in part.757But also, we are more efficient. And so these are among the758changes. Agriculture is more capital intensive.759    And I will say this very clearly, and I have never been big760fan of tariffs, 44 percent of California's agriculture is761exported. And these issues of tariffs are, you know, very, very762challenging because if they last for any period of time,763foreign markets that we have been able to benefit from, whether764they be in Asia or Europe or elsewhere, they seek other sources765of supply. We saw that happen in the last tariff round when a766lot of our export to China on almonds became replaced with767China seeking those almonds from Australia. So we can't believe768that or risk that we get past this over 4 months, 6 months, a769year, that necessarily we regain these markets.770    I had yesterday a citrus grower tell me that they ship a771lot of their citrus crop to China, that they had two loads that772were canceled here this week of what had been a usual ability773to export their navels and their Valencias. So, you know, when774you have as large of agricultural economy as we have in775California, these changes are real and they economically impact776entire communities. That means people that have businesses,777farmworkers, some of the hardest workers you will ever see in778your life, all the people that are on the food chain that have779value added on that supply, everybody, the ripple effect of the780economy is real.781    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you very much. I only have one final782question, Mr. Chairman, and that is with the recharging of your783water supply because of the atmospheric river, how many crop784cycles will that satisfy, 5 years, 3, 10?785    Mr. Costa. Well, again, it is based on 10-year averages. We786are hoping that we can take advantage of these atmospheric787rivers as they continue to seem to be more of the norm and plan788accordingly, so that we can maintain that water behind our789reservoirs when they do come and can anticipate in terms of how790we manage these reservoirs. And that is why the funding here791for the Water Operations Technical Support is so important as792we manage our water supply more efficiently and effectively.793    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.794    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Ranking Member Kaptur.795    At this time I would like to recognize my friend, that796gentleman from Idaho, Mr. Simpson.797    Mr. Simpson. Hi, Jim.798    Mr. Costa. Hi.799    Mr. Simpson. Thanks for coming today.800    Mr. Costa. Number of our dairies have gone to Idaho.801    Mr. Simpson. I was going to say, a lot of those dairies802that left California have come to Idaho and made us the third803largest dairy state. And we are going to overtake Wisconsin804before very long. We will never overtake California. You got805too much of the market and growing dairies in California.806    But I just was at a plant, Chobani, the largest yogurt807plant in the world, is in my district, and they just did a808groundbreaking to expand that. They are going to go from using8094 million pounds of dairy of milk to 12.7. That means the dairy810cows in the area are going to have to go from about 60,000 that811produced the 4 million to about 171,000.812    Mr. Costa. We have got Betancourt and a lot of folks from813California and they have got some good-sized dairies there as814well.815    Mr. Simpson. Yeah. They are good friends.816    Mr. Costa. Yeah. We have been impacted greatly by that high817path avian flu with our dairy and poultry industry. Has it come818up there significantly in Idaho?819    Mr. Simpson. Yeah. Do you, just out of curiosity, do you in820California manage your groundwater and surface water821conjunctively?822    Mr. Costa. Yes.823    Mr. Simpson. I had two goals. I had a number of goals, but824two of them that I failed on when I was either chairman of this825committee or ranking member under Marcy. One of them, and we826talked about both of them today, one of them was to find a827permanent geological repository for our spent nuclear fuel.828That is Chuck's job now. And the other one that I could never829solve is California water issues. It was probably one of the830biggest challenges we had because we had Republicans wanting831one thing, Democrats wanting another thing. And finally I said,832you guys need to get together.833    How together are Republicans and Democrats on California834water now?835    Mr. Costa. I would describe we are making progress. I used836to chair the state Senate Ag and Water Committee in California837when I was in the legislature and having both agriculture and838water made it a very important committee under its839jurisdiction. And the things that I always tell people with840California water is that it is the three Cs: it is complex, it841is complicated, and it is controversial.842    It is complex because we have the inner operations between843very large Federal water projects and very large state water844projects and we have got local water projects. And they all845were built at different times, financed differently, they have846different rules of operation, but yet we share, you know, a847general supply of water and we have to work together. And that848has gotten better.849    So the complexity of trying to work together in Sacramento850and here in Washington is always part of the challenge getting851Democrats and Republicans to work together. But I think in852recent years, one of the things that we have learned, and it853gets back to the controversy, is that getting engaged in854endless litigation, endless litigation, doesn't bring one more855drop of water. And so what we have tried to do in recent years856in a bipartisan fashion is tried to look at interim and long-857term plans to create the one thing that water users in858California and in the West all seek, which is greater water859reliability. Water reliability based on 10-year averages,860realizing that some years are good, some years are not, and861trying to determine what our average.862    I mean, California has been blessed. We have got the Sierra863Nevada, we have got that as a major source of supply, and we864have access to the Colorado River. But you know, the Colorado865River is beset with the upper basin and lower basin states as866well that were in endless litigation up until the 1960s and867they had the law of the river and they finally resolved it. But868they resolved it based upon evidence that is no longer real and869that is that the river on 10-year averages would yield 17870million acre feet of water. Lake Mead outside of Las Vegas has871not been filled since 2000, and it was almost a dead pool 2872years ago before you had these large atmospheric rivers that873ended up providing more supply.874    And what we have come to the realization between the upper875basin states and the lower basin states, and some people have876rights to the river water that have never been able to exercise877it, like Utah, because they are not connected to the river. And878there are some Native Americans that have rights to the river879that they've never been able to access. But what we have come880to the realization in the last two decades with better881understanding of water supply and measurements is that the882yield of the river, of the Colorado, is about 10- to 12 million883acre feet. So this great agreement in the 1960s was reached by884everybody allocating 17 million acre feet on 10-year averages.885Well, if your allocation is really more like 10- to 11 million886acre feet on 10-year, then guess what. They are starting to887realize, well, how are we going to reallocate that smaller888supply of water?889    And so the three Cs are applicable. You know, it is890complicated, it is complex, and it is always controversial. But891I think because we have been basically able to develop a plan892and, you know, it was interesting, I thought within the first893couple weeks of the Trump administration, Governor Newsom894specifically flew to Washington and had an hour meeting with895the President. And over, I am told, three-quarters of the896meeting was on water and what the state is trying to do to work897together with the Federal Government.898    The President signed an executive order that by April 20,899which is coming up, that the Secretary of Interior and the900Secretary of Commerce would report to the President on water901supply. And so we want to work with the administration and we902obviously know that it is in California and Western states'903long-term interest to try to find solutions to a reliable water904supply. And that is what this is all about.905    Mr. Simpson. It is always easy to allocate water, the more906you have got of it. And when you are assuming that they looked907at that and it was 5 years before they would had really wet908years, and they were told at the time when they made this909agreement and they said that there was 17\1/2\ million acre910feet of water that went down the Colorado every year, they were911told, you are only looking at the wet years, you are not912looking at the dry years.913    Mr. Costa. Right.914    Mr. Simpson. But it is always easier to allocate it. And915you are right, that is the problem. I don't think we will ever916see Lake Mead and Lake Powell filled again.917    Mr. Costa. Yeah. I just flew over it yesterday and you can918see where the high mark was and where the lower is, and I agree919with you.920    Mr. Simpson. Yeah. Anyway, thank you. I appreciate it.921    And now that I am no longer chairman or ranking member of922this committee, I pass this on to someone who has the ability923and the intelligence to solve this nuclear waste issue and the924California water issue. And you and Laura can do a great job on925this, I am sure.926    Mr. Fleischmann. Gleefully.927    Mr. Costa. Let's work on all of it together.928    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes. Gleefully, Mr. Chairman. And I thank929you for your questions.930    And Mr. Costa, I thank you for your presentation and we are931solicitous of your thoughts, and I really appreciate the update932on California water and agriculture. Thank you, sir.933    Mr. Costa. Well, appreciate all of your good work. And when934we work together, we get things done. Thank you.935    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes, sir. With that, the hearing is936adjourned.937    [Whereupon, at 10:50 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]938    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]939940                           W I T N E S S E S941942                              ----------943                                                                   Page944945Costa, Hon. Jim..................................................    14946    Prepared statement...........................................    17947Weber, Hon. Randy K..............................................     1948    Prepared statement...........................................     4949950                                  [all]