"Revisiting the 2024 Election with Secretaries of State"

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                      REVISITING THE 2024 ELECTION5                       WITH SECRETARIES OF STATE67=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS1415                                 OF THE1617                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION1819                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2021                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2223                             FIRST SESSION2425                               __________2627                             APRIL 8, 20252829                               __________3031      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration3233[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3435                            www.govinfo.gov36                           www.cha.house.gov3738                                __________3940                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4160-062                     WASHINGTON : 20254243-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4445                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION4647                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman4849LAUREL LEE, Florida, Vice Chair      JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,50BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia                 Ranking Member51H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama52GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          NORMA TORRES, California53STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             JULIE JOHNSON, Texas54MARY MILLER, Illinois55MIKE CAREY, Ohio5657                       Mike Platt, Staff Director58                  Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director5960                                 ------6162                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS6364                       LAUREL LEE, Florida, Chair6566BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama,67GREG MURPHY, North Carolina               Ranking Member68MARY MILLER, Illinois                JULIE JOHNSON, Texas6970                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S7172                              ----------73                                                                   Page7475                           Opening Statements7677Chair Laurel Lee, Representative from the State of Florida.......     178    Prepared statement of Chair Laurel Lee.......................     379Ranking Member Terri A. Sewell, Representative from the State of80  Alabama........................................................     481    Prepared statement of Ranking Member Terri A. Sewell.........     582Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on House Administration Joseph83  Morelle, Representative from the State of New York.............     68485                               Witnesses8687Hon. Wes Allen, Alabama Secretary of State.......................     988    Prepared statement of Wes Allen..............................    1089Hon. Nancy Landry, Louisiana Secretary of State..................    1590    Prepared statement of Nancy Landry...........................    1791Hon. Frank LaRose, Ohio Secretary of State.......................    2092    Prepared statement of Frank LaRose...........................    2293Hon. Phil McGrane, Idaho Secretary of State......................    2694    Prepared statement of Phil McGrane...........................    2895Hon. Stephanie Thomas, Connecticut Secretary of State............    3196    Prepared statement of Stephanie Thomas.......................    329798                       Submissions for the Record99100Overseas and Military Voters Opposition to SAVE Act Letter.......    54101Brennan Center for Justice Alabama Racial Turnout Gap Analysis...    56102Civil Rights Groups Opposition to SAVE Act Letter................    60103Attorney General Opposition to SAVE Act Letter...................    65104Southern Poverty Law Center Opposition to SAVE Act Letter........    70105Brennan Center for Justice Opposition to SAVE Act Letter.........    82106ACLU Opposition to SAVE Act Letter...............................    83107LCV Opposition to SAVE Act Letter................................    85108Vet Voice Foundation Opposition to SAVE Act Letter...............    86109110                           General Allowance111112Declaration for American Democracy Opposition to SAVE Act Letter.    90113Issue One Opposition to SAVE Act Letter..........................    95114Secretaries of State SAVE Act Letter.............................    99115116                      REVISITING THE 2024 ELECTION117                       WITH SECRETARIES OF STATE118119                              ----------120121                             April 8, 2025122123                 Subcommittee on Elections,124                 Committee on House Administration,125                                  House of Representatives,126                                                   Washington, D.C.127    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:05 p.m., in128room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Laurel Lee129[chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.130    Present: Lee, Loudermilk, Murphy, Miller, Sewell, Morelle,131and Johnson.132    Staff present: Mike Platt, Staff Director; Rachel Collins,133General Counsel, Abby Salter, Deputy General Counsel; Josh134Weber, Counsel; Kristen Monterroso, Director of Operations;135Marissa Mullen, Deputy Director of Member Services; Annemarie136Cake, Deputy Clerk and Professional Staff Member; Jamie Fleet,137Minority Staff Director; Kahlil Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff138Director; Sean Wright, Minority Chief Counsel; Sarah Nasta,139Minority Senior Advisor; Nikolas Youngsmith, Minority Elections140Counsel; and Owen Reilly, Minority Professional Staff Member.141142OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LAUREL LEE, CHAIR OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE143        ON ELECTIONS, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA144145    Chair Lee. The Subcommittee on Elections of the Committee146on House Administration will come to order.147    The title of today's hearing is, ``Revisiting the 2024148Election With Secretaries of State.''149    I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the150chair may declare a recess at any time.151    We will do opening statements here today and then recess152for the floor vote. We will quickly reconvene after the vote153and begin with witness testimony.154    Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain155open for 5 legislative days so Members may submit any materials156they wish to be included therein.157    Thank you, Ranking Member Sewell, Members of the Committee,158and our witnesses for participating in today's hearing.159    Recent elections have produced record high turnout, and, in160turn, those elections become the most challenging for elections161officials to administrate and process. Presidential, primary,162general, and special elections occur around the clock, across163States, requiring efficient administration to provide Americans164with free and fair elections.165    As a former Secretary of State, I am glad to welcome our166witnesses today for an important review of our Nation's most167recent Presidential election.168    Voters across America went to the polls in record high169numbers in 2024 to exercise one of their most fundamental170rights. According to our Constitution, the States are171responsible for prescribing the times, places, and manner of172holding elections for Senators and Representatives.173    The role of Congress in elections is to provide oversight174and to support States in those efforts.175    The purpose of our hearing today is to revisit the 2024176election and hear from Secretaries of State who conducted their177States' elections this past November. Specifically, we will be178looking at what went well and what lessons we can learn from179each of the secretaries in administering free and fair180elections and how we can continue to protect and promote voter181confidence.182    I thank all of our witnesses for coming before the183Committee today to share your knowledge and expertise on this184matter.185    During the 2024 election cycle, over 155 million Americans186cast their ballots in races for the White House, the Senate,187the House of Representatives, Governors' mansions, State188legislatures, State supreme courts, and more.189    Even with record high turnout, many States were able to190report their results on election night for the Presidency.191However, some States were significantly delayed in calling192races for the Senate and House of Representatives for days, and193in some cases, weeks.194    Something I was very proud of, as Florida's former chief195election official, was how quickly our State was able to call196elections with confidence in our results. Undoubtedly, States197with laws on the books for pre-processing of mail-in ballots198regularly enforced deadlines for receipt on Election Day and199consistent post election audits of voter rolls are in the best200position to administer their elections without undue delay and201to report results on election night, which helps instill voter202confidence.203    Many States across the country, including most of the204States the secretaries here today represent, have taken205initiative in enhancing their election security laws.206    When Americans feel their vote will count, they are more207inclined to take the time to cast a ballot. Americans must know208that their vote will not be misplaced, damaged, or otherwise209interfered with, but instead, it will be uncounted in a timely210manner. Americans must also know that noncitizens' votes will211not cancel out a legal vote.212    Strengthening our voting laws increases voter confidence213and leads to higher turnout in our elections. This most recent214election was proof of that.215    In Alabama, Louisiana, Idaho, and Ohio, successful election216integrity measures have been implemented. Each of these States217are evidence of how enhancing election integrity and security218can help to manage high voter turnout, voter access, and the219rapid process of ballots to certify results on election night.220    While States are the primary authority on how elections are221conducted, it is our role here in Congress to assist in any way222that we can. One way we will be able to help provide resources223to States is by passing the Safeguard American Voter224Eligibility, or the SAVE Act.225    This bill would bring critical reform to the National Voter226Registration Act that will help prevent noncitizens from being227added to voter rolls. It would also provide States with free228access to the DHS save program and the Social Security death229data base, which will help States remove noncitizens or230deceased persons who should not be on their voter rolls.231    In doing so, the SAVE Act would codify many of the measures232included in President Trump's recent executive order to233strengthen election integrity and security.234    Running a successful and uneventful election is no easy235task. I am looking forward to learning from each of you about236how you successfully ran elections in each of your States in2372024, and how Congress can assist in future elections.238    Thank you for being here today. I look forward to our239conversation.240    With that, I yield to Ranking Member Sewell for an opening241statement.242    [The prepared statement of Chair Lee follows:]243244 PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIR OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS245                           LAUREL LEE246247    Recent elections have produced record high turnout, and in248turn, these elections become the most challenging for election249officials to administrate and process. Presidential, primary,250general, and special elections occur around the clock across251States, requiring efficient administration to provide Americans252with free and fair elections.253    As a former Secretary of State, I am glad to welcome our254witnesses today for an important review of our Nation's most255recent Presidential election. Voters across America went to the256polls in record high numbers in 2024 to exercise one of their257most fundamental rights. According to our Constitution, the258States are responsible for prescribing the ``Times, Places and259Manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives.''260The role of Congress in elections is to provide oversight and261to support States in their efforts.262    The purpose of our hearing today is to revisit the 2024263election and hear from the Secretaries of State who conducted264their States' elections this past November. Specifically, we265will be looking at what went well, and what lessons we can266learn from each of the Secretaries in administering free and267fair elections, and how we can continue to protect and promote268voter confidence. I thank all of our witnesses for coming269before the Committee today to share your knowledge and270expertise on this matter.271    During the 2024 election cycle, over one hundred and fifty-272five (155) million Americans cast their ballots in races for273the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives,274governor's mansions, State legislatures, State Supreme Courts,275and more. Even with record high turnout, many States were able276to report their results on election night for the Presidency.277However, some States were significantly delayed in calling278races for the Senate and the House of Representatives for days,279and in some cases, weeks.280    Something I was very proud of as Florida's former Chief281Elections Official was how quickly our State was able to call282elections with the utmost confidence in our results.283Undoubtedly, States with laws on the books for pre-processing284of mail-in ballots, regularly enforced receipt deadlines for285Election Day, and consistent post-election audits of voter286rolls are in the best position to administer their elections287without undue delay and to report results on election night,288which helps instill voter confidence.289    Many States across the country, including most of the290States the Secretaries here today represent, have taken291initiative in enhancing their election security laws. When292Americans feel that their vote will count, they are more293inclined to take the time to cast a ballot. Americans must know294that their vote will not be misplaced, damaged, or otherwise295interfered with, but instead it will be counted in a timely296manner. Americans must also know that a noncitizens vote will297not cancel out their legal vote.298    Strengthening our voting laws increases voter confidence299and leads to higher turnout in our elections. This most recent300election was proof of that. In Alabama, Louisiana, Idaho, and301Ohio, successful election integrity measures have been302implemented. Each of these States are evidence of how enhancing303election integrity and security can help to manage high voter304turnout, voter access, and the rapid process of ballots to305certify results on Election Night. While States are the primary306authority on how elections are conducted, it is our role here307in Congress to assist in any way we can. One way we will be308able to help provide resources to States is by passing the309Safeguard American Voter Eligibility, or the SAVE Act.310    This bill would bring critical reform to the National Voter311Registration Act that would help prevent noncitizens from being312added to voter rolls. It would also provide States with free313access to the DHS SAVE program and the Social Security Death314Database, which will help States to remove noncitizens who may315be on voter rolls. In doing so, the SAVE Act would codify many316of the measures included in President Trump's recent executive317order to strengthen election security and integrity. Running a318successful and uneventful election is no easy task. I am319looking forward to learning from each of you about how you320successfully ran elections in each of your States in 2024, and321how Congress can assist in future elections.322323 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TERRI SEWELL, RANKING MEMBER OF THE324 SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ALABAMA325326    Ms. Sewell. Good afternoon, everyone.327    As a Ranking Member of the Election Subcommittee, and as a328representative of Alabama's civil rights district, there is329nothing more important to me than ensuring that every American330can cast their ballot.331    It was in my hometown of Selma, Alabama, 60 years ago where332John Lewis and hundreds of foot soldiers were bludgeoned on the333Edmund Pettus Bridge for the equal right of all Americans to334vote. However, for the past decade, extremists have fought to335undo the hard-won progress that the foot soldiers sought to336achieve.337    Just last year, lawmakers in 40 States introduced 317 bills338to eradicate new barriers to the ballot box. Since its defeat339in the 2020 election, Donald Trump and his Republican allies340have pushed the big lie of a stolen election. They have even341tried to convince the American people of the lie that342noncitizens are voting in large numbers and are threatening our343elections.344    They are using the lie as an excuse to pass new laws like345the SAVE Act that would make it harder for millions of346Americans to vote.347    Moreover, Donald Trump just signed an executive order that348would not only give him unilateral authority to regulate349Federal elections, but it would open the floodgates for mass350voter purges and give Elon Musk unfettered access to sensitive351voter files.352    The executive order and the SAVE Act also create353unnecessary barriers for election workers by withholding funds354and threatening election administrators with a 5-year prison355sentence if they make a simple mistake while trying to register356new voters.357    Even though the 2024 was fair and secure, it was marred358with threats of violence, like the bomb threats that targeted359polling stations, election offices, and tabulation centers on360election day.361    However, today's hearing should present a great learning362opportunity because States like Connecticut are leading the363charge to expand access to the ballot box. In 2023, Connecticut364passed a State-level Voting Rights Act to expand voter access.365    Sadly, last year, Alabama, my home State, cared more about366enacting laws to criminalize absentee ballot assistance and367purged thousands of eligible voters from the rolls. Alabama is368one of only three States in the Nation that does not allow any369form of early in-person voting.370    But in Connecticut, voters were allowed to exercise their371right to vote 14 days before election day.372    Before election day in Alabama, the courts had to prevent373Alabama from unfairly and unlawfully removing thousands of374eligible voters from the roll because they were wrongfully375flagged as noncitizens in direct violation of the National376Voter Registration Act.377    Voters in Alabama and every other State should not have378fewer options to vote. What they deserve is to learn on379election day that their names were actually on the rolls380rightfully, not wrongfully, and purged unnecessarily.381    As we examine the 2024 election, what we should be382addressing are issues such as chronic underfunding of our383elections, the safety and security of our election workers,384polling stations, and voters, and expanding access to the385ballot box for every eligible American.386    We should be honoring the legacy by passing legislation387like the John Robert Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, the388Freedom to Vote Act, and the Native American Voting Rights Act.389    Trump has no regards for the U.S. Constitution, the rule of390law, or the fundamental principles that all Americans,391regardless of their race, creed, or color, has a right to have392their voice heard at the ballot box.393    The American people's right to vote is sacred, as John394Lewis said, and I will never stop fighting to protect the395cornerstone of our democracy. We, as elected officials, should396be looking for ways to expand access to the ballot box, not to397curb it.398    I want to thank our secretaries for being here today.399    I also want to thank Chair Lee for holding this.400    I look forward to hearing from all of you.401    I would like to welcome my Secretary of State, Wes Allen.402    Thank you.403    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Sewell follows:]404405  PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON406                     ELECTIONS TERRI SEWELL407408    As a Ranking Member of the Election Subcommittee, and as a409representative of Alabama's civil rights district, there is410nothing more important to me than ensuring that every American411can cast their ballot. It was in my hometown of Selma, Alabama,41260 years ago where John Lewis and hundreds of foot soldiers413were bludgeoned on the Edmund Pettus Bridge for the equal right414of all Americans to vote. However, for the past decade,415extremists have fought to undo the hard won progress that the416foot soldiers sought to achieve.417    Just last year, lawmakers in 40 States introduced 317 bills418to eradicate new barriers to the ballot box. Since its defeat419in the 2020 election, Donald Trump and his Republican allies420have pushed the big lie of a stolen election. They have even421tried to convince the American people of the lie that422noncitizens are voting in large numbers and are threatening our423elections. They are using the lie as an excuse to pass new laws424like the SAVE Act that would make it harder for millions of425Americans to vote.426    Moreover, Donald Trump just signed an executive order that427would not only give him unilateral authority to regulate428Federal elections, but it would open the floodgates for mass429voter purges and give Elon Musk unfettered access to sensitive430voter files. The executive order and the SAVE Act also create431unnecessary barriers for election workers by withholding funds432and threatening election administrators with a 5 year prison433sentence if they make a simple mistake while trying to register434new voters.435    Even though the 2024 was fair and secure, it was marred436with threats of violence, like the bomb threats that targeted437polling stations, election offices, and tabulation centers on438election day. However, today's hearing should present a great439learning opportunity because States like Connecticut are440leading the charge to expand access to the ballot box. In 2023,441Connecticut passed a State-level Voting Rights Act to expand442voter access.443    Sadly, last year, Alabama, my home State, cared more about444enacting laws to criminalize absentee ballot assistance and445purged thousands of eligible voters from the rolls. Alabama is446one of only three States in the Nation that does not allow any447form of early in person voting. But in Connecticut, voters were448allowed to exercise their right to vote 14 days before election449day.450    Before election day in Alabama, the courts had to prevent451Alabama from unfairly and unlawfully removing thousands of452eligible voters from the roll because they were wrongfully453flagged as noncitizens in direct violation of the National454Voter Registration Act. Voters in Alabama and every other State455should not have fewer options to vote. What they deserve is to456learn on election day that their names were actually on the457rolls rightfully, not wrongfully, and purged unnecessarily.458    As we examine the 2024 election, what we should be459addressing are issues such as chronic underfunding of our460elections, the safety and security of our election workers,461polling stations, and voters, and expanding access to the462ballot box for every eligible American. We should be honoring463the legacy by passing legislation like the John Robert Lewis464Voting Rights Advancement Act, the Freedom to Vote Act, and the465Native American Voting Rights Act.466    Trump has no regards for the U.S. Constitution, the rule of467law, or the fundamental principles that all Americans,468regardless of their race, creed, or color, has a right to have469their voice heard at the ballot box. The American people's470right to vote is sacred, as John Lewis said, and I will never471stop fighting to protect the cornerstone of our democracy. We,472as elected officials, should be looking for ways to expand473access to the ballot box, not to curb it.474475    Chair Lee. With that, I yield to Ranking Member of the full476Committee, Representative Morelle, for an opening statement.477478OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE479 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM480                            NEW YORK481482    Mr. Morelle. Good afternoon.483    Thank you, Chair Lee, for gathering this Subcommittee.484Thanks for giving me a few moments.485    Certainly, thank you to the various Secretaries of State486for being here today.487    As we gather this afternoon to revisit the 2024 election,488it is important to state up front that the 2024 election was489fair and secure, that Donald Trump was elected President. You490see, unlike many on the other side of the aisle, Democrats can491and will acknowledge that fact. Even when we do not personally492like or agree with the outcome of an election, we honor the493democratic process and accept the results.494    In examining the last election and looking for ways to495improve our country's election administration, we must address496the rampant spread of mis- and disinformation and falsehoods497that continue to be spread about our electoral system. We must498protect election workers who face continued threats and499harassment.500    We must address the rise of artificial intelligence,501generative AI, and continued foreign influence campaigns that502seek to affect and influence our elections.503    We must fully fund our elections. Federal elections are on504the ballot in every State every 2 years, and yet Congress has505continued and consistently failed to sufficiently fund those506election efforts at the State and local level.507    Congress must halt and reverse the administration's harmful508decisions to attack, undermine, and defund critical Federal509agencies and partnerships like the Cybersecurity and510Infrastructure Security Agency, CISA, and the Elections511Infrastructure Information Sharing and Analysis Center, or the512FBI's Foreign Influence Task Force.513    These actions to cripple and undermine these agencies do514not strengthen our elections. In fact, they make us less515secure.516    We need to fix our broken special interest big money517campaign finance system. Last year one donor, billionaire Elon518Musk, spent at least $291 million backing Donald Trump and519other Republican candidates. According to Open Secrets, the top520six donors in the United States gave over $100 million each521during the 2024 election, all supporting the President and522Republican candidates.523    In last week's Wisconsin supreme court election, Elon Musk524and allied groups spent over $20 million.525    We also need fair maps. Look at North Carolina where526Republicans gerrymandered their way into the House majority by527drawing three Democratic Members out of their seats.528    The President's recent executive order on election529integrity is a further assault on our democracy. The order is530unlawful and unnecessary, attempting to impose documentary531proof of citizenship requirements to register to vote by532executive fiat, circumventing the U.S. Congress and our533constitutional authority.534    It undermines the independence of the U.S. Election535Assistance Commission, and injects chaos and uncertainty into536our voting system certification process.537    New York's attorney general and a coalition of 18 other538attorneys general are suing to stop President Trump's539unconstitutional attempt to seize control of our elections.540Voters and party committees have also sued to stop the White541House from doing that.542    Alongside all of this is the so-called SAVE Act, a measure543that my colleagues on the other side claim is necessary to544prevent noncitizens from voting in U.S. elections. It is not.545Noncitizens registering to vote is already a crime. Noncitizens546voting is a crime and leads to immediate deportation. It rarely547happens and, when it does, noncitizens are held accountable, as548they should be. The SAVE Act and the President's order are two549sides of the same coin.550    Now with the economic pain of the President's chaotic551tariffs just being felt, members of the majority are planning552to charge millions of Americans potentially billions of dollars553just to register to vote from 150 million Americans who do not554have passports.555    Last week I testified before the Rules Committee that the556SAVE Act and the executive order would disenfranchise women,557rural voters, military voters, overseas voters, Native American558voters, seniors, students, survivors of domestic abuse, and559survivors of natural disasters. Millions of Americans.560    There is, however, real work Congress can do to improve our561elections. Election officials take on essential, often562thankless tasks in running elections. They face increased563threats and too little and inconsistent funding from Congress.564That could stop.565    As Ranking Member of this Committee and a Member of the566Appropriations Committee, I will continue to push for567additional funding and consistent elections funding.568    We can work to combat mis- and disinformation to meet the569challenges posed by AI and to improve access to the ballot for570every single American. Providing both support and accurate571information will allow election workers to administer secure,572accessible elections, and give Americans the confidence in573elections that they need.574    I was honored to join Ranking Member Sewell in her hometown575of Selma for the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday just last576month. We must honor the legacy and continue moving forward in577the fight for voting rights, not backward.578    I am anxious to hear from each of the secretaries today.579Thank you for your work, for the work your staffs do, and all580the election workers in your respective States to carry out581these important, important elections.582    With that, Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity. I583yield back.584    Chair Lee. Without objection, all other Members' opening585statements will be made part of the hearing record if they are586submitted to the Committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.587    At this time, votes for Members have been called. We will588take a brief recess to go vote and then return as quickly as589possible to the hearing room to hear the opening statements and590testimony from our witnesses.591    At this time, this Committee stands in a temporary recess.592    [Recess.]593    Chair Lee. I will now call this hearing back to order and594reconvene our business.595    Today we have one witness panel, and I will now introduce596our witnesses. First, we have Wes Allen, the Secretary of State597of Alabama. Next, we have Nancy Landry, the Secretary of State598of Louisiana, followed by Frank LaRose, the Secretary of State599of Ohio. Then we have Phil McGrane, the Secretary of State of600Idaho, and Stephanie Thomas, the Secretary of State of601Connecticut.602    Each witness will have 3 minutes to provide an opening603statement. We thank you for your cooperation and your patience604with us in that regard. You have just witnessed what was not an605exercise in efficiency. We are so glad to have you all here and606to have this time with you.607    With that, I now recognize Secretary Allen for the purpose608of giving an opening statement.609610STATEMENTS OF HON. WES ALLEN, ALABAMA SECRETARY OF STATE; HON.611NANCY LANDRY, LOUISIANA SECRETARY OF STATE; HON. FRANK LAROSE,612OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE; HON. PHIL MCGRANE, IDAHO SECRETARY OF613  STATE; AND HON. STEPHANIE THOMAS, CONNECTICUT SECRETARY OF614                             STATE615616                  STATEMENT OF HON. WES ALLEN617618    Mr. Allen. Thank you, Madam Chairman.619    Good afternoon, Members of this Subcommittee. It is my620honor to be invited to represent the great State of Alabama as621its chief election official.622    I bring a unique perspective of today's proceeding, as my623career in elections began more than a decade prior to my624election as Alabama's 54th Secretary of State when I served for625nearly 10 years as probate judge, the chief elections official,626in Pike County, Alabama.627    The foundation of election integrity is voter file628maintenance. Moments after I was sworn in, I signed a letter629notifying the Electronic Registration Information Center, also630known as ERIC, that Alabama would no longer participate in631their program.632    My team and I developed and implemented the Alabama Voter633Integrity Database, better known as AVID, which utilizes State-634to-State data sharing agreements, partners with the driver's635license division of the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency, the636national change of address data base, and the Social Security637Administration's national death master index to identify638individuals who should be placed on a path for removal from our639voter file.640    Since taking office, more than half a million ineligible641voters have been removed from Alabama's voter file. Our voter642file, which was a bloated mess on the day I took office, is now643the most accurate record of eligible voters our State has ever644had.645    However, two major hurdles remain. First, the immediate646removal of deceased voters from our voter file should be common647sense. However, obtaining access to the Social Security648Administration's national master death index was absurdly time649consuming and overly burdensome.650    Unnecessary red tape makes it more difficult than it should651be. You, as Members of Congress, can cut through that red tape652and make this important data immediately available to all 50653States.654    Second, my efforts to gain access to noncitizen data held655by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services,656USCIS, were repeatedly denied by the previous administration.657    Fortunately, President Trump's EO directed DHS to cooperate658with States to eliminate noncitizens from our voter file, will659allow batch comparisons of DHS noncitizen data to our State-660level voter files, allowing for the immediate removal of those661who are illegally registered to vote.662    Granting States immediate access to this data is crucial.663Only United States citizens should participate in our664elections.665    Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today. It666has been my honor.667    [The prepared statement of Mr. Allen follows:]668669              PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. WES ALLEN670671[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]672673    Chair Lee. Thank you.674    I now recognize Secretary Landry for the purpose of her675opening statement.676677                   STATEMENT OF NANCY LANDRY678679    Ms. Landry. Good afternoon, Chair Lee, Ranking Member680Sewell, and Members of this Committee. It is an honor to be681with you here today to discuss the successes Louisiana had and682the lessons we learned in the 2024 election.683    As Louisiana's Secretary of State, the most important684function of my job is to reinforce voters' confidence in our685elections. I believe our work did just that and led to a banner686year in our State's election administration.687    Just months after taking office in early 2024, I announced688a legislative package of 11 bills intended to strengthen our689State's election integrity posture. I am proud to say that all69011 bills passed, eight of those with bipartisan support, and691our Governor signed all of them into law.692    Last August, I joined Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry and693our attorney general to announce new steps our State is taking694to ensure that only U.S. citizens can vote in Louisiana695elections. This included a directive from the Governor696requiring the Office of Motor Vehicles to share information on697noncitizens who hold a Louisiana driver's license or ID.698    Additionally, in the weeks leading up to the Presidential699election, I embarked on a tour that took me to 21 of700Louisiana's 64 parishes. I met with civic groups, local701election officials and staff, and conducted countless radio and702TV interviews to reinforce what I call the four Ps of election703security.704    Those are our people. That is my staff and our local705election officials, the only people that ever program our706equipment.707    Our policies. The legislation that we have passed over the708years to ensure election integrity.709    Our procedures. Such as our logic testing and sealing710procedures that we conduct before each and every election.711    The last P is our physical security. Every machine is712stored under lock and key when not in use, and no machine is713ever connected to the internet.714    While Louisiana has employed these for several years, I715felt it was important to meet voters where they are and to716empower our local partners with the knowledge that they need to717speak with authority on our election processes.718    All of that hard work we put in last year resulted in a719record-breaking Presidential election. Among other records, we720saw the fastest reporting of results in any Presidential721election in Louisiana's history. Full, unofficial results were722posted within 3 hours of our polls closing.723    These efforts led to a noticeable increase in voter724confidence in our elections. Over an 8-month period in 2024, a725poll found a nine-point jump in the number of voters who726believed that our elections are safe and secure.727    Louisiana proved that States can make it easy to vote and728hard to cheat and that doing so will instill confidence in our729elections. I believe every State in the Nation can replicate730the strides we have made. In doing so, they can reassure voters731that their elections are safe and secure.732    Thank you again for having me. I look forward to your733questions.734    [The prepared statement of Ms. Landry follows:]735736               PREPARED STATEMENT OF NANCY LANDRY737738[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]739740    Chair Lee. I now recognize Secretary LaRose for the purpose741of giving an opening statement.742743                   STATEMENT OF FRANK LAROSE744745    Mr. LaRose. Well, thank you so much, Chair Lee and Ranking746Member Sewell, all the Members and the staff for inviting us747here today.748    We had a simple bit of wisdom that we used in the military.749That you sweat in training so you do not bleed in battle. It750maybe sounds a little bit dramatic. We summed it up a little751bit simpler when I was in the Boy Scouts with the slogan be752prepared.753    The work of elections administration is all about being754prepared for that next election. It is a massive logistical755undertaking running an election. Sometimes we lose track of756that because for each of us individually it is a very757individualize experience. You show up at your voting location,758check your ballots. You walk out with your ``I voted'' sticker,759and then see the results at the bottom of your screen that760night. But it is a massive undertaking.761    In Ohio, we created what we call the ready for November762task force that started well over a year before the election763with training seminars for each of our county boards of764elections, working through the after-action reports of previous765elections to make sure that those best practice had been put766into place, recruiting and training over 35,000 poll workers767that it takes to run Ohio's elections, our fifth security768directive that built on the four before them to make Ohio a769real leader in cybersecurity.770    Of course, we run an election day operation center. Some771call it our war room where we can quickly work through those772issues that inevitably come up on Election Day and make sure773that none of them can become a showstopper for the voters of774Ohio.775    Ohio has implemented a number of best practices that I776think are worth considering. Prompt reporting of our election777night results. That comes about as a result of pre-processing778those absentee ballots as they arrive and making sure that779those are ready to be the first ones reported. At 8:15, 8:30 on780election night, we are already reporting those early votes and781those absentee votes.782    One of the other things that we have done in Ohio is783standardized our data. Now, to start, we have a bottom-up784system in Ohio with each county being run by two Democrats and785two Republicans, but we needed to create standardized786definitions. We did that through a bipartisan effort called the787DATA Act.788    Simple things like what constitutes a voter registration789date or a ballot cast or a ballot counted. Standardizing all790that data, reporting it publicly has made Ohio among the most791transparent election systems in the country.792    Of course, photo ID, which is widely accepted in Ohio. We793provide that for free, and it includes an indication of your794citizenship status.795    There are things that the Federal Government needs to do.796The President took a good first step with the executive order797on citizenship data, but we need more access to that through798DHS and others, as well as the U.S. Postal Service.799    There is a list of things that we as secretaries proposed800in September 2024. Many of those still require action.801    In 2024, we ran a record-breaking election in Ohio. Voters802went to bed on election night, whether their favorite803candidates won or lost, knowing that it was an honest result.804Ultimately, that is our goal.805    I look forward to the questions you all for us later.806Thanks.807    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaRose follows:]808809               PREPARED STATEMENT OF FRANK LAROSE810811[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]812813    Chair Lee. I now recognize Secretary McGrane for the814purpose of giving an opening statement.815816                   STATEMENT OF PHIL MCGRANE817818    Mr. McGrane. Chair Lee, Ranking Member Sewell, and Members819of the Committee, it really is my privilege to be here before820you today.821    My background in elections goes back to right when I got822out of college. I landed a job as an elections specialist823counting ballots when we were voting on punch cards and824training poll workers. I have had the unique opportunity to825work my way up in a variety of roles along the way.826    I can say I have seen just about everything when it comes827to elections, and I stand proud to represent the State of Idaho828here to really highlight that the 2024 election was one of the829most successful in Idaho's history. We had a record 917,000830Idahoans head out to the polls and vote, which really stands831out.832    I also think, you know, this Committee--I think I came to833your attention based on a local election. You mentioned that in834your opening statement, Chairwoman, regarding judicial review,835right, whenever there is an error. Errors can happen in any836election, but the ability to correct those errors, no matter837how granular.838    We had an election that was determined. It was 47 votes839versus 48 votes, and we put that before a judge to make sure840that we could get the right result for that community. That is841the level of detail that we will use in Idaho to get it right.842    Over the 2024 election, I think one of the biggest things843that stands out, though, is our use of the SAVE data base and844the SAVE tools.845    Governor Little and I signed an executive order last846summer, the Only Citizens Can Vote Act, to ensure that only847American citizens were on our voter rolls headed into the848November election. We did a comparison with all the data and849had a close working relationship with DHS.850    I think one of the telling things and something that you851can do about this is we talk about the SAVE data base, or the852SAVE program. It is not actually a program or a data base, it853is a patchwork of varying data bases that really was never854intended for election integrity work.855    I think one of the things this Committee can do is invest856in the tools that we need as States to ensure that our voter857rolls are accurate. I think that is something that all parties858should be able to get behind is the accuracy in our voter859rolls.860    Additionally, I think one other thing that this Committee861can take up, and it was already mentioned before, is voter ID.862Thirty-six States already have some standard of voter ID. When863you look at polling, whether it is Pew or any other resource,864it shows heavy bipartisan support.865    Most notably, last November, Nevada, and just 2 weeks ago,866Wisconsin, the voters, when they get to choose, overwhelmingly867choose for identification.868    We have the real ID taking effect. We all see this when we869travel. All of us experience it. This is something that we can870do.871    I really look forward to the conversation today in terms of872our elections and what Congress can do to help support us as873States. Most importantly, I really stand proud of the work that874all of the county clerks, the election workers, poll workers,875did to make sure that 2024 really was a success, both in Idaho876and across our entire country.877    Thank you, Madam Chair.878    [The prepared statement of Mr. McGrane follows:]879880               PREPARED STATEMENT OF PHIL MCGRANE881882[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]883884    Chair Lee. I now recognize Secretary Thomas for the purpose885of giving an opening statement.886887                 STATEMENT OF STEPHANIE THOMAS888889    Ms. Thomas. Good afternoon to all the Members of the890Committee.891    It is a true honor to be here today to reflect on an892incredible year for the great State of Connecticut, home of the893UConn Huskies.894    At a time when election mistrust was in the headlines,895Connecticut expanded our voting access while maintaining896voters' trust. We submitted more than 20 pages of written897testimony, extremely long, I know, but I hope others can learn898from us as we made voting more accessible while maintaining899security.900    Like most States, we faced many challenges in 2024. The901introduction of early voting, skittish election workers, a902potential poll workers shortage, and a proliferation of false903claims about election integrity.904    We have been at this a long time. Connecticut is known as905the Constitution State, because ours is the first written906Constitution in America dating back to 1639.907    We are also known as the land of steady habits due to our908thoughtful approach. We have always used paper ballots, we have909never used equipment connected to the internet. We audit910regularly. We perform robust list maintenance. We require911certification and continuing education for our election912workers, and more.913    Today, I want to focus on several of the elements that914helped our elections run smoothly, even as 40 percent of our915voters switched to early voting for the first time.916    First, we took a very collaborative approach, hosting917monthly meetings beginning in 2023 with members of our election918workforce and our fusion center partners. This enabled us to919create trainings, as we needed to keep everyone in lockstep.920    For example, police did not know what they should do at a921polling location. Election workers created a training for them.922Our election workers were not sure what to do in certain923emergencies. Law enforcement created scenario-planning drills924for them.925    Second, we visited over 100 groups to teach them how early926voting would work, and we recruited over 250 businesses and927organizations to join our CEO program, which stands for928Civically Engaged Organizations.929    Third, because we do not have a county form of government,930each town administers its own elections run by an elected931Republican and Democrat, which helped keep our elections fair932and transparent.933    Last, we have an investigatory agency that any individual934can report any claims of election malfeasance. We have935volunteer attorneys who also are deployed on Election Day If936needed.937    Our team felt great coming out of 2024, but my message to938Congress today is simple: We do not need complicated mandates939for what States are already doing well. I believe we need to940focus on continual funding, education, recruitment, and global941security.942    Thank you so much for listening today. I know we had to943adjust our minutes downward by two. I hope I will receive some944questions.945    Thank you.946    [The prepared statement of Ms. Thomas follows:]947948             PREPARED STATEMENT OF STEPHANIE THOMAS949950[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]951952    Chair Lee. Thank you.953    I will begin our questions today, followed by the Ranking954Member.955    I now recognize myself for the purpose of questioning our956witnesses.957    Secretary Allen, I will start with you and follow up on958your testimony that related to your efforts to have accurate959and contemporary voter rolls.960    Under your leadership, the Alabama Voter Integrity Database961system entered into a memorandum of understanding with my home962State of Florida through 2027. Can you share with us what that963is and why it is so crucial to have States communicate with964each other about voter rolls?965    Mr. Allen. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.966    It is vitally important that States talk to each other. We967have been so very, very proud of these memorandums of968understanding, not only with the State of Florida, but with969Georgia and Tennessee and Mississippi and Louisiana, Arkansas,970Kentucky, and most recently, Texas.971    Those are vitally important to have a bilateral agreement972to where we can get our IT departments to talk to each other to973make sure that we do not have anyone that is double registered974in both States. We are very, very proud of this effort.975    We have exchanged data with a number of States so far, and976we found over 40,000 individuals that were double-registered in977other States as well as Alabama.978    Chair Lee. Tell us what sort of adjudication process occurs979when do you identify somebody who appears to be registered in980more than one location.981    Mr. Allen. We get that information, and we send out to the982counties, to the different boards of registrars where that983person was last registered in Alabama. They send out984correspondence to this person to let them know that there may985be some question about their voter registration, and if they,986indeed, have moved to another State, to call them back or to987correspond with them and to remove themselves from the Alabama988voter file.989    If they do not correspond with us, there is a time period990in conjunction with the NVRA that places them on a pathway to991removal. We do not remove them instantly. We put them on a992pathway in case they do not call the State of Alabama to remove993themselves.994    Chair Lee. Secretary Landry, Louisiana recently enacted995safeguards for mail-in ballot returns via third-party996collection. Can you share with us how these safeguards reduce997fraud and third-party ballot collections?998    Ms. Landry. Certainly.999    We passed some legislation last year that closed loopholes1000regarding ballot harvesting in addition to prohibiting1001individuals from picking up multiple ballots. We also now1002prohibit delivery by any method where one individual is1003delivering multiple ballots.1004    If you are not a family member, you can only deliver one1005ballot, whether it is to the registrar voters office or to a1006post office box.1007    Chair Lee. Have these additional safeguards reduced voting1008via absentee ballot?1009    Ms. Landry. They have not.1010    Chair Lee. In your opinion, did these measures unduly1011burden absentee voters in Louisiana?1012    Ms. Landry. They do not. In fact, we had a lawsuit1013regarding one of our new laws, and the plaintiffs, after the1014most recent election, moved to dismiss the lawsuit. In the1015motion, they mentioned that they were unable to find a single1016plaintiff who was impacted by the legislation in spite of their1017thinking that they would. They could not find anyone.1018    We think they are just common-sense measures, and they1019protect our most vulnerable voters.1020    Chair Lee. Secretary LaRose, Ohio, much like my home State,1021implemented pre-processing for mail-in ballots, which you1022mentioned in your testimony. We attribute rapid processing of1023absentee ballots as a crucial part of calling election results1024in a timely manner.1025    Will you explain to us how early processing of ballots1026increases confidence in elections in Ohio?1027    Mr. LaRose. Yes. Thank you, Chairwoman.1028    As soon as an absentee ballot arrives back at a county1029board of elections, it can be opened by a bipartisan team, a1030Democrat and Republican sitting there, slicing it open,1031checking the name, date of birth, last four of the Social,1032State driver's license, and verifying the signature against the1033signature on file in the data base.1034    At that point, they can flatten it out. Let us not, you1035know, trivialize that. They have to be flattened out to go1036through the machine. Sometimes that takes some time to do. They1037flatten those ballots out, and they are ready to scan so that1038on election night, at 7:30 p.m. precisely, the very first1039ballots counted are those early votes and absentee votes1040because they are all processed and ready to go.1041    Chair Lee. Tell us, if you would, around what time was Ohio1042able to call the race for the Presidency on election night?1043    Mr. LaRose. It was in the 10 p.m. hour, and we were at 901044percent reported by 11 p.m. However, that last 10 percent took1045us until about 3 a.m. because we had a few counties that needed1046some help. Before everybody went home for the night, we had1047every vote counted, every Election Day vote counted and1048reported.1049    Chair Lee. Thank you, Secretary LaRose.1050    I now recognize Ranking Member Sewell for 5 minutes for the1051purpose of questioning our witnesses.1052    Ms. Sewell. Thank you, Madam Chair.1053    I would like to welcome to the Nation's Capital my1054Secretary of State, Wes Allen.1055    Sir, you mentioned in your testimony that the foundation of1056election integrity is voter maintenance. I note that you1057mentioned that you withdrew Alabama from the ERIC organization1058and replaced it with AVID, a Alabama Voter Integrity Database,1059to partner with State agencies to identify individuals who1060purged from the rolls.1061    Last year, you, led an effort to clean the rolls in Alabama1062by directing the Department--the board of registrar to remove1063registered voters that were, quote, ``noncitizen identification1064number,'' end quote, by the Department of Homeland Security.1065    Shortly after implementing this purge, a group of civil1066rights organizations challenged, sir, your voter purging1067program in court. Do you know, sir, what percentage of voters1068that you purged were actually U.S. citizens and should be1069eligible to vote versus not being eligible?1070    Mr. Allen. Well, we are extremely proud--I am extremely1071proud of my staff who worked to implement this program, and I1072will say that----1073    Ms. Sewell. Sir, it was 93 percent, 93.8 percent of the10743,251 voters that were purged from the rolls were actually U.S.1075citizens and should have been eligible to vote.1076    Federal courts have acknowledged that relying solely on1077data bases like the State Department of Homeland Security,1078State DMV data bases, and the Federal Systematic Alien1079Verification for Entitlement Data base can, quote, ``have a1080very high rate of inaccuracy.''1081    How will you ensure, sir--first of all, is the voter purge1082program still ongoing? How do you ensure that you are actually1083capturing voters that should be ineligible?1084    Mr. Allen. Well, I will say that our staff is working1085extremely hard to make sure the voter file maintenance is top1086of mind each and every day when we come into the office, and we1087will continue to make sure that only United States citizens are1088on Alabama voter files.1089    Ms. Sewell. Yes. You know, that is the law that only1090American citizens can vote.1091    How much did it cost to defend that program in court? Do1092you know? How much money did you spend?1093    Mr. Allen. I do not have that number.1094    Ms. Sewell. All I can say is that Alabama taxpayers should1095not be paying for a program that has shown such a high rate of1096inaccuracy. While I totally understand the importance of making1097sure that every person who is on the voter roll is eligible, I1098think that there are better ways to do that than voter purging.1099    Mr. Allen, Secretary Allen, you also mentioned in your1100written testimony that the State banned ballot harvesting last1101year. The State legislature passed an initiative that will1102criminalize people for assisting others with their absentee1103ballots.1104    For example, if someone pays their family member to1105actually take their ballot, to deliver their ballot, that1106person would be--that assistance would be criminally charged. I1107am not sure if that was the intent, but I can tell you that1108several of my constituents called me in fear of voting absentee1109because they were afraid of it being rejected for simple1110reasons like, you know, not being able to provide the ballot1111themselves but, actually, having a family member deliver it.1112    Can you give us assurances that we, in Alabama, can1113actually, you know, make it easier for voters to access the1114ballot box. I mean, we are one of three States that do not have1115early voting. I think it is really important that we get it1116right.1117    Mr. Allen. Yes, ma'am. The right to vote is sacred, and1118what that bill did was protect absentee voting. Paid political1119activists should not be involved in manipulating the absentee1120process, and that is what it is.1121    Ms. Sewell. I hear what you are saying, but these are1122family members who are trying to help their elderly parents1123actually vote, and they should not be in fear of, you know,1124actually turning in a ballot if they have to borrow money from1125their mother to actually get to the post office, or to get to1126the agency, to the voting registration office.1127    Mr. Allen. There is no need to fear. You know, we mimic1128Federal law. If anybody is disabled, they can have anybody that1129they choose to help them with the application. It does not1130pertain to the ballots themselves. It is already legal in1131Alabama for anyone to return a ballot for anyone else.1132    SB1 specifically talked about the application portion of1133the absentee ballot process, and it did that. It protected the1134absentee process.1135    Ms. Sewell. Well, sir, I think that both of us, given the1136great history, the amazing history that occurred in our State,1137we really owe it to every Alabamian to make sure that not only1138are they eligible to vote, but they have access to the ballot1139box.1140    Mr. Allen. They do.1141    Ms. Sewell. Having said that, Secretary Thomas, I note that1142you all passed a State-level Voting Rights Act in 2023.1143    I know I am about to run out of time. I wanted to ask if1144she could just answer one question with respect to that.1145    Chair Lee. Go right ahead.1146    Ms. Sewell. Sure.1147    Can you talk just a little bit about this initiative and1148how it will make it easier for folks to vote, your new law?1149    Ms. Thomas. Sure.1150    The Connecticut Voting Rights Act passed last session to1151codify some of the elements of the National Voter Rights Act,1152such as preclearance, making sure that materials related to1153voting were provided in languages and communities that were1154majority in certain languages.1155    It also provides a great transparency for members of the1156public. They can access statistics and data about voting in1157their communities via a GIS system. In Connecticut anyway, it1158passed handedly and many----1159    Ms. Sewell. Implemented in the 2024 election?1160    Ms. Thomas. Not the Voting Rights Act. Other than the1161language access. We did implement early voting in 2024.1162    Ms. Sewell. Thank you, Madam Chair, for indulging me.1163    I also would ask unanimous consent to submit several1164articles into the record.1165    Chair Lee. Without objection, so ordered.1166    [The information referred to follows:]11671168[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]11691170    Chair Lee. I now recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr.1171Loudermilk for 5 minutes for the purpose of questioning our1172witnesses.1173    Mr. Loudermilk. Well, thank you, Madam Chair.1174    Thank you all for being here. I appreciate the job, the1175work that you all do. It is so very important for our free1176republic to have integrity in our elections, and that has been1177something that has risen in the interest of the American people1178in the past several years.1179    I have been the longest-serving Member of this Committee,1180and this used to be an obscure Committee when all our1181jurisdiction was security of the Capitol and Federal elections.1182Then in 2020, that became important to a lot of people for1183various reasons. I thank you for being here.1184    Secretary McGrane, I would like to ask you a couple of1185questions. I understand that the Idaho State law requires1186voters to be documented U.S. citizens.1187    Mr. McGrane. Correct.1188    Mr. Loudermilk. Has this requirement unduly denied the vote1189to any lawful citizens?1190    Mr. McGrane. Not that I am aware.1191    Mr. Loudermilk. OK.1192    I also understand that Idaho recently removed a number of1193noncitizens from the voter rolls. How was your office able to1194accurately identify and remove noncitizen voters in a timely1195manner?1196    Mr. McGrane. I appreciate the question.1197    As I mentioned, last summer, we signed the Only Citizens1198Can Vote Act. Working through a process using our Idaho1199transportation department, Idaho State police, and then, most1200notably, Department of Homeland Security, we ran the entire 1.11201million registered voters in Idaho through those systems to1202verify citizenship. I mean, easily determining citizenship for1203the overwhelming majority, but then really dialing it into a1204case-by-case basis to narrow it down to 34 individuals who were1205noncitizens on Idaho's voter rolls. I think using that1206precision and scrutiny really helped.1207    As I identified in my remarks, there are still tools that1208are needed to help really bolster this for all of us.1209    Mr. Loudermilk. Had you done that in the past, or was this1210the first time that you really started drilling down looking1211for noncitizens?1212    Mr. McGrane. This was the first time that we had actually1213had that, and I think this will be continued work, as you see1214from the President's executive order and other efforts.1215    Mr. Loudermilk. OK. I appreciate that.1216    Some of our colleagues continue to maintain that noncitizen1217voting is a non-issue. Is that true? Or do you have a different1218opinion on that?1219    Mr. McGrane. I think every American wants to make sure that1220their vote can count and that their vote counts the same as1221everybody else, and that there is no one who is ineligible1222participating in our elections because, as we know, any time1223that happens, especially that razor thin election like I1224mentioned earlier, it can cancel out somebody else's vote.1225    I do think this is an issue for determining accuracy.1226    Mr. Loudermilk. Also, Idaho recently adopted the Only1227Citizens Can Vote Act, as you have mentioned. Can you share1228with us about how you and the Governor were able to1229successfully collaborate with State law enforcement and verify1230citizens' status, which you have a little bit.1231    Is there anything specific in there that we can learn from1232how you work with law enforcement and other agencies?1233    Mr. McGrane. I think specifically it really does tie in1234both to voter ID, right. Identification that identifies1235citizenship. I think that is an ongoing conversation and1236something that you can continue to do work on.1237    Then the other part really is investing in USCIS. Earlier1238today, I met with USCIS officials to talk about how can we1239bolster these efforts. I think they are eager to do the work.1240One of the things they reiterated to me was they are going to1241remove whatever barriers.1242    You heard from Secretary Allen some of the challenges other1243States had, to remove those barriers but to make sure we have1244the accurate data we need to do this voter verification.1245    Idaho competes with many of the States you guys represent1246for one of the fastest growing States in the Nation. That means1247people are moving. People are coming in. This is an ongoing1248effort to keep our voter rolls up-to-date and accurate.1249    Mr. Loudermilk. What can we do as Congress to assist you1250going forward with this? You know, what would you like to see1251Congress do to make that more efficient and more accurate?1252    Mr. McGrane. I think first and foremost is invest in this1253data base. There needs to be a data base built with this1254purpose in mind. Then also to review some of the policies.1255    I will say there are some really unique incidents we1256identify in Idaho that is a concern to make sure both1257noncitizens are not participating, but also citizens are not1258interfered with.1259    There is the Child Citizenship Act of 2000. There are what1260I would classify as undocumented citizens. These are people who1261have become citizens through their parents' naturalization, but1262it is actually not recorded because we have not built the tools1263in place to do the verification we are doing.1264    I think the efforts of this Committee, though, whether it1265is the SAVE Act or the President's executive order, are aimed1266toward that. If you can continue to invest in those resources1267and these agencies, that will really make a difference.1268    Mr. Loudermilk. OK. Thank you.1269    Secretary Landry, I have one question for you. I have a1270very good friend that used to serve in this Chamber who is now1271the Governor. Is there any relation?1272    Ms. Landry. We are not related. Governor Landry and I are1273from the same area of the State. Landry is a very common Cajun1274name. In Louisiana, it is the second most common Cajun name. It1275is sort of like Smith in south Louisiana.1276    Mr. Loudermilk. Well, I assumed you were not because I1277understood everything that you said while you were here.1278    With that, I yield back.1279    Ms. Landry. I will not tell him you said that.1280    Mr. Loudermilk. Please do.1281    Chair Lee. Thank you.1282    I now recognize Ranking Member Morelle of our full1283Committee for 5 minutes of questioning our witnesses.1284    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Madam Chair.1285    Again, thanks to the secretaries for being here.1286    I want to start, Secretary Thomas, with you. As I1287understand it, you allowed for the first time in-person early1288voting in the State of Connecticut. As you look back on the1289election, what tools and techniques did you use?1290    Particularly, I am sort of interested, too, as it relates1291to misinformation and disinformation, but did you have any1292challenges with information as it related to early voting for1293the first time? Are there any challenges that you think you1294will face moving forward that you have to adjust to?1295    Ms. Thomas. Thank you for the question.1296    Yes, we definitely, I think, like States around the1297country, were struggling to explain how elections worked. There1298is this narrative that they are not safe, et cetera.1299    We did many things. We proactively, as I said, reached out1300to many communities, over 100 grassroots organizations. We also1301held regular media activities for the press, answering commonly1302misunderstood aspects about election administration.1303    With our department of emergency services and public1304protection, we got together and put together a social media1305campaign in all communities to make sure that people understood1306where to go for trusted information.1307    As you say, I still think no matter what safeguards have1308been put in place, there is still this narrative. Most1309Connecticut residents think our elections are great, but1310feeding into the national news media, like, I get emails all1311the time saying disconnect our election machines from the1312internet, although they never have been.1313    I think we have this conflation of fear and mistrust that1314is often not well-placed.1315    Mr. Morelle. Got you. Thank you.1316    Secretary Allen, I noted in your testimony you said we do1317not, in Alabama, we do not accept any ballot received after1318Election Day with the exception of UOCAVA ballots, which must1319be postmarked no later than the date of the election.1320    What is wrong, in your mind, with the idea of taking1321ballots that have been postmarked before the end of in-person1322voting on Election Day?1323    Mr. Allen. Because I believe in Election Day. Election Day1324is Election Day. We set it out in State law. We set it out in1325Federal law. The further we deviate from that I think it can1326lead--it is a very slippery slope.1327    Mr. Morelle. Is it that you do not trust the U.S. Postal1328Service?1329    Mr. Allen. We have had problems with the U.S. Postal1330Service in the past.1331    Mr. Morelle. Really?1332    When you file taxes with the IRS on April 15th, which is1333the filing deadline, if it is postmarked, should you be fined1334or should you in some way pay a penalty for filing your taxes1335late?1336    Mr. Allen. Well, fortunately, I filed my taxes early this1337year.1338    Mr. Morelle. Yes, but April 15th is the deadline. I mean,1339we accept--honestly, I do not mean to be argumentative. I just1340find this sort of a strange argument that voters in America1341could vote on or before Election Day but vote in mail, but if1342it is received after Election Day, you could have--to your1343point, you could have sent it in early. You could send it in 31344days before Election Day.1345    The post office--and you can send it by absentee ballots in1346most States postmarked days before Election Day. If it does not1347get to the post office by Election Day, I do not understand the1348theory that--I do not understand why that is an issue?1349    Mr. Allen. Again, representative, I just believe that we1350have rules for a reason. The further we deviate from that is a1351very, very slippery slope. If we start accepting--I mean, the1352date is the date.1353    Mr. Morelle. The date is the date. If you did it 2 days1354before Election Day, you have done it. You have complied with1355the date. There is no way that you are changing the outcome of1356the election after the end of the election period.1357    I mean, unless you do not--you believe somehow the United1358States Postal Service is doing something to the ballots, I1359think we generally, accept for all kinds of business things,1360tax purposes, I mean, postmarks actually mean something in1361America.1362    Does anybody disagree with me?1363    I hate to belabor the point in my last minute, but1364Secretary Landry, do you subscribe to the same view?1365    Ms. Landry. I think the ballots should be in by Election1366Day and that, you know, manipulation can occur. Once you start1367reporting results, that people can go out and gather more1368ballots and----1369    Mr. Morelle. No, not if it is postmarked. I mean, you could1370not--I mean, I hate to--this is like a physical impossibility.1371You cannot affect the election after Election Day if you1372submitted the ballot prior to the deadline. It is just1373physically impossible, unless you go back in time or something1374like that.1375    Ms. Landry. I think we should have an end date to the1376election, and the end date to the election should be Election1377Day.1378    Mr. Morelle. Do you feel the same way about taxes also? The1379IRS should not accept anything that is postmarked before----1380    Ms. Landry. I do not think the IRS is the same thing1381because they are not waiting to report a result of income tax1382collections. Whereas the whole State is waiting for us to1383report the results of an election, and we need to give them the1384timely results to secure the confidence in our elections.1385    Mr. Morelle. I yield back.1386    Chair Lee. I now recognize the gentleman from North1387Carolina, Dr. Murphy, for 5 minutes for the purpose of1388questioning our witnesses.1389    Dr. Murphy. Thank you, Madam Chairman.1390    Thank you all for coming today.1391    I think everybody in this room wants pre-fair, safe1392elections. I think that is uniform. I think there is very much1393consensus about that. How that happens I think there may be a1394little bit of disagreement.1395    This is why, you know, I think our House passed the SAVE1396Act. That requires States to prove citizenship before1397registering an individual to vote and to remove noncitizens1398from existing voter rolls.1399    You know, the question is why do people fear that? Because1400here in Washington, D.C., they passed a law which had to be1401reversed or passed a rule, or whatever they call it here in the1402county or the city, that would have allowed people from the1403Chinese Embassy to come and vote.1404    In New York, they wanted noncitizens to be able to vote.1405There is precedent in this country that is justified fear for1406being able to say they--am I not coming on? Do I need to speak1407louder? OK. Good.1408    Anyway, long and short, there is, I think, justified fear1409for people saying, Hey, we want noncitizens not to vote in our1410elections.1411    Secretary LaRose, in your testimony you mentioned that Ohio1412requires voters to present a Government-issued photo ID to1413vote, and your State requires driver's licenses and State IDs.1414Can you tell us how this has safeguarded the elections in Ohio?1415    Mr. LaRose. Thank you, sir.1416    By just proving that people are who they say they are when1417they come to vote. By the way, the vast majority of Democrats1418and Republicans support this. Ohio provides a free ID if you do1419not have one. We even have a religious exemption for that very1420small minority that does not allow them to be photographed.1421They may not have a State ID. We cover all the bases.1422    Our State ID has an indication on it that says whether you1423are a citizens or not. Shockingly, I actually had to go to1424court last year and defend that because there was a group1425saying that we should give people a ballot, even if they give1426us an ID that says noncitizen.1427    Dr. Murphy. Amazing.1428    Ballot harvesting requires a lot of attention and for good1429reason--receives a lot of attention and for good reason.1430Fraudulent actions committed by third-parties are a threat.1431    Can you tell me what election security initiatives do you1432find to be the most effective in reducing fraud in these third-1433party collection of mail-in ballots?1434    Mr. LaRose. Well, Ohio recently outlawed the prepopulating1435of these forms by some of these third-party organizations1436because in many cases, they were sending out prepopulated forms1437with inaccurate information on them. Now you have to fill the1438form out yourself.1439    We also have strict rules around the use of so-called drop1440boxes or secure receptacles. Whereas only the voter may return1441their ballot. If you are returning somebody else's ballot,1442which Ohio law allows you to do for a family member or a1443disabled person, in those cases, you just have to come inside1444and present it to the election official.1445    Dr. Murphy. You have to present an ID if you bring in1446somebody else's ballot, a family member?1447    Mr. LaRose. No, but you do have to sign an affidavit that1448says that you have been designated by a disabled Ohioan to1449return their ballot. That has, obviously, the power of law1450behind it.1451    Dr. Murphy. All right. Thank you.1452    Secretary Landry, in your testimony you shared that your1453Governor issued a directive requiring the Office of Motor1454Vehicles to share information on noncitizens who hold Louisiana1455driver's license or ID.1456    How can illegal immigrants take advantage of automatic1457voter registration, particularly when they come in contact with1458the State DMV?1459    Ms. Landry. In Louisiana, illegal immigrants are not1460allowed to get a driver's license. Only those here legally can1461get a driver's license. We previously did not have access to1462that information. Governor Landry, our Governor now, ordered1463the DMV to provide that information to us, and it allows us to1464now audit our voter rolls to see if there are noncitizens on1465the voter rolls.1466    It is not enough. There is still information that we need,1467and getting access to the SAVE data base will allow us to find1468even more people who may be on our rolls who are not citizens.1469    Dr. Murphy. You know, I have worked in some other countries1470during election periods, just playing doctor, like I do1471sometimes, and I think it is a good look for this country, that1472we want voters to be citizens, and we want our elections to1473have integrity.1474    Secretary McGrane, your office has been sued for removing1475college student identification cards from the approval list of1476voter IDs for voter registration. How did that happen? What1477happened there?1478    Mr. McGrane. We--Idaho, 2 years ago, updated its voter ID1479requirements to register to vote, and I think to the core how1480did it happen, I am not sure. Like was mentioned earlier----1481    Dr. Murphy. Did it affect turnout?1482    Mr. McGrane. It did not affect turnout. Actually, in this1483last election, overwhelmingly, so 98.1 percent of Idaho voters1484showed an Idaho driver's license or ID card when they voted. It1485does not affect--students as well use driver's licenses.1486    Dr. Murphy. Yes, they drive.1487    Mr. McGrane. Yes.1488    Dr. Murphy. Thank you.1489    Chair Lee. I now recognize the gentlewoman from Texas, Ms.1490Johnson, for 5 minutes for the purpose of questioning our1491witnesses.1492    Ms. Johnson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the1493opportunity to participate in this hearing. You know, Texas is1494the hardest State in the union to vote, and some would say we1495have been assaulting the right to vote in our State for quite1496some time. I have seen firsthand how troublesome it is to make1497voting difficult.1498    I want to address the previous question on student ID. You1499go through the university process, right, Ms. Thomas, when you1500go to admit to a university, you have to submit birth1501certificates, you have to submit all things about who you are1502to get that student ID. Why in the world would we not want1503students--the whole point of ID is here is a picture, here is1504who you are. Are you who you say you are to go vote? What in1505the hell is wrong with using a student ID to vote?1506    Ms. Thomas. Nothing.1507    Ms. Johnson. I agree with you. Absolutely nothing. Most of1508our State universities paid for by the taxpayers to make sure1509that they know who their students are. When they issue a1510student ID, the problem without using student ID is a lot of1511young people, for what reasons are beyond me, they do not get a1512driver's license.1513    I mean, I remember my son, my oldest son, when he turned151416, he decided he did not need a driver's license because I1515could drive him. I thought, Well, that is a huge problem. I am1516not your chauffeur, sir. I can get you a bus pass, or you can1517decide to get your driver's license. He miraculously decided to1518get a driver's license.1519    I am constantly amazed at how many young people do not get1520a driver's license right now. I do not understand why in the1521world we would not want to use student IDs. That is an argument1522of why I think what makes this whole voter integrity discussion1523somewhat disingenuous because, yes, we want to make sure1524American citizens vote. Absolutely. There is no disagreement1525amongst party lines that we want citizens to vote. The1526disagreement comes in how easy are we going to make it for1527those citizens to vote.1528    What it seems like right now with the SAVE Act and the1529legislation that comes through, we are more interested in1530making it harder for people to vote in the name of rooting out153132 people who may have improperly voted, as opposed to making1532it possible for 20 million people to vote.1533    You know, my question is, you know, when we have--the other1534problem is we have a lot of people born in rural Texas. We have1535a lot of people born in places where they do not necessarily1536have access to their documents. They do not have this, but they1537are citizens. What are we doing to make it easier for these1538people to vote? What about people with disabilities? You know,1539how are we making it possible for people to go in person and1540vote? Ms. Thomas, does Connecticut have online voter1541registration?1542    Ms. Thomas. We certainly do, and that is how 33 percent of1543our voters register.1544    Ms. Johnson. That makes it easier for people who are1545seniors, people who may be homebound for whatever reason. Maybe1546you are part of the sandwich generation where you are caring1547for young kids, you are working, you are caring for senior1548families to be able to participate in our democracy.1549    It seems to me that States like Texas that do not allow1550online voter registration, which is insane to me, are more1551concerned about people who may not vote Republican to keep them1552from voting because it disproportionately affects young people1553who trend more progressive on average, and it1554disproportionately affects poor people, and it1555disproportionately affects people of color to not be able to1556exercise their constitutional right to vote.1557    What is very frustrating to me in this building with this1558whole election integrity discussion is it seems that people on1559the other side of this aisle are not committed to ensuring that1560people have the right to vote in this country. We were making1561it so hard. You want to say something.1562    Ms. Thomas. I was just going to say, it also helps election1563workers. I would love for this Congress to actually spend its1564time fighting for American citizens. We know for a fact that1565there are more women who have changed their last name, more1566young people, more people living in nursing homes, more people1567serving in our military overseas than there are noncitizens1568voting. When are we going to prioritize American citizens1569instead of making them jump through hoops.1570    Ms. Johnson. I completely agree. We should be doing1571everything we can to make sure every American citizen can cast1572their constitutional right to vote.1573    Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the1574record four letters in opposition to the SAVE Act. The first1575one is the Brennan Center for Justice; the second from the1576American Civil Liberties Union; the third from that voice; and1577the fourth from the legal conservation voters, all in1578opposition to the SAVE Act and the barriers and burdens it will1579place on millions of Americans' ability to register to vote and1580participate in our democracy. With that, I yield back.1581    [The letters referred to follows:]15821583[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]15841585    Chair Lee. Without objection, so ordered. I now recognize1586the gentlewoman from Illinois, Mrs. Miller, for the purpose of1587questioning our witnesses for 5 minutes.1588    Mrs. Miller. OK. Thank you, Chairwoman. Thank you to the1589witnesses for being here. I do want to address my colleague,1590Ms. Johnson.1591    You just insulted the young, the poor, the rural, and1592people of color by insinuating that they do not have enough1593wherewithal to go get a photo ID or a driver's license.1594Ridiculous. Voting is a privilege. Being an American citizen is1595a privilege. We want to make sure that American citizens are--1596that their votes are not being canceled out by people that are1597not U.S. citizens.1598    Ms. Johnson. I would like to respond anyway----1599    Mrs. Miller. Anyway, I have a question for Secretary1600Landry.1601    Chair Lee. Order. Direct remarks to the witnesses. Carry1602on.1603    Mrs. Miller. I have a question for Secretary Landry. In16042024, Louisiana enacted House bill 476 which requires that an1605absentee ballot delivered by a third party be accompanied by a1606signed statement of the voter prepared by the Secretary of1607State, which attests the voter authorized the postal service or1608commercial carrier to deliver the ballot.1609    Secretary Landry, why is signature verification so crucial1610to ballot integrity?1611    Ms. Landry. We believe that the custody of your ballot is1612very important; the chain of custody and keeping track of that.1613When you hand your ballot to somebody, you need to know who has1614your ballot and what they have done with it. If they are unable1615to deliver it themselves having--or they need assistance, we1616ask them to put their name and signature on there as well so1617that we know who has delivered the ballot, and we know that1618they have permission to do that.1619    Mrs. Miller. What kind of consequences are there if someone1620does not get the voters' authorization, or they turn in1621something that is fraudulent?1622    Ms. Landry. There is no consequence for the voter actually.1623The vote is still counted. If someone is--there is a1624prohibition on witnessing more than one or delivering more than1625one. The prohibition--the penalty is on that person who did not1626put their name or who delivered more than one. We still count1627the vote, I think, in those situations where the ballot is1628delivered. If it is missing a witness signature, it is not1629counted.1630    Mrs. Miller. In the last election, were you able to1631identify anybody that turned in some kind of fraudulent1632whatever attestation----1633    Ms. Landry. In the last election, though, we had a lot of1634complaints in election before that of people who were1635harvesting ballots and going into apartment complexes and1636offering to assist vulnerable voters, and family members had1637contacted our office and asked that we investigate because they1638felt like there was some manipulation going on with assisting1639with the ballots. That is what prompted that legislation.1640    Mrs. Miller. Well, I think until we have severe1641consequences for people that are engaged in activities, you1642know, like what you just described, I do not think we are going1643to have free and fair elections. I would like to see.1644    Ms. Landry. Right. Just to clarify, if they are missing any1645signatures, the ballot is not counted. If it is just something1646untoward or against the law that the ballot harvester is doing,1647that person is punished, and the vote is still counted.1648    Mrs. Miller. Right. Thank you so much, and I yield back.1649    Chair Lee. I would like to thank our witnesses for1650appearing before the Committee today and for the work that you1651do for your communities and voters across America.1652    Members of the Committee may have some additional questions1653for you, and we ask that you please respond to those questions,1654if any, in writing.1655    Without objection, each Member will have 5 legislative days1656to insert additional material into the record or to revise and1657extend their remarks.1658    If there is no further business, I thank the Members for1659their participation. Without objection, the Committee stand1660adjourned.1661    [Whereupon, at 4:24 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]16621663                       GENERAL ALLOWANCE16641665[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]16661667                                 [all]