"America Builds: A Review of Our Nation's Transit Policies and Programs"

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34 AMERICA BUILDS: A REVIEW OF OUR NATION'S TRANSIT POLICIES AND PROGRAMS56=======================================================================78                                (119-16)910                                HEARING1112                               BEFORE THE1314                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON15                          HIGHWAYS AND TRANSIT1617                                 OF THE1819                              COMMITTEE ON20                   TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE21                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2223                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2425                             FIRST SESSION2627                               __________2829                             APRIL 9, 20253031                               __________3233                       Printed for the use of the34             Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure3536GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT3738     Available online at: https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-39     transportation?path=/browsecommittee/chamber/house/committee/40                             transportation4142                         ______4344             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE45 60-508 PDF          WASHINGTON : 20254647             COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE4849  Sam Graves, Missouri, Chairman50 Rick Larsen, Washington, Ranking51              Member52Eleanor Holmes Norton,               Eric A. ``Rick'' Crawford,53  District of Columbia               Arkansas,54Jerrold Nadler, New York               Vice Chairman55Steve Cohen, Tennessee               Daniel Webster, Florida56John Garamendi, California           Thomas Massie, Kentucky57Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Georgiaott Perry, Pennsylvania58Andre Carson, Indiana                Brian Babin, Texas59Dina Titus, Nevada                   David Rouzer, North Carolina60Jared Huffman, California            Mike Bost, Illinois61Julia Brownley, California           Doug LaMalfa, California62Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Bruce Westerman, Arkansas63Mark DeSaulnier, California          Brian J. Mast, Florida64Salud O. Carbajal, California        Pete Stauber, Minnesota65Greg Stanton, Arizona                Tim Burchett, Tennessee66Sharice Davids, Kansas               Dusty Johnson, South Dakota67Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, Illinois   Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey68Chris Pappas, New Hampshire          Troy E. Nehls, Texas69Seth Moulton, Massachusetts          Tracey Mann, Kansas70Marilyn Strickland, Washington       Burgess Owens, Utah71Patrick Ryan, New York               Eric Burlison, Missouri72Val T. Hoyle, Oregon                 Mike Collins, Georgia73Emilia Strong Sykes, Ohio,           Mike Ezell, Mississippi74  Vice Ranking Member                Kevin Kiley, California75Hillary J. Scholten, Michigan        Vince Fong, California76Valerie P. Foushee, North Carolina   Tony Wied, Wisconsin77Christopher R. Deluzio, Pennsylvania Tom Barrett, Michigan78Robert Garcia, California            Nicholas J. Begich III, Alaska79Nellie Pou, New Jersey               Robert P. Bresnahan, Jr.,80Kristen McDonald Rivet, Michigan     Pennsylvania81Laura Friedman, California           Jeff Hurd, Colorado82Laura Gillen, New York               Jefferson Shreve, Indiana83Shomari Figures, Alabama             Addison P. McDowell, North84                                     Carolina85                                     David J. Taylor, Ohio86                                     Brad Knott, North Carolina87                                     Kimberlyn King-Hinds,88                                       Northern Mariana Islands89                                     Mike Kennedy, Utah90                                     Robert F. Onder, Jr., Missouri91                                     Vacancy9293                  Subcommittee on Highways and Transit9495  David Rouzer, North Carolina,96             Chairman97Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of98     Columbia, Ranking Member99John Garamendi, California           Eric A. ``Rick'' Crawford,100Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Georgiakansas101Jared Huffman, California            Daniel Webster, Florida102Julia Brownley, California           Thomas Massie, Kentucky103Mark DeSaulnier, California          Brian Babin, Texas104Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, Illinois   Mike Bost, Illinois105Chris Pappas, New Hampshire          Doug LaMalfa, California106Marilyn Strickland, Washington       Bruce Westerman, Arkansas107Patrick Ryan, New York               Pete Stauber, Minnesota108Val T. Hoyle, Oregon                 Tim Burchett, Tennessee109Emilia Strong Sykes, Ohio            Dusty Johnson, South Dakota110Jerrold Nadler, New York             Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey111Nellie Pou, New Jersey               Troy E. Nehls, Texas112Kristen McDonald Rivet, Michigan     Burgess Owens, Utah113Laura Friedman, California           Eric Burlison, Missouri114Laura Gillen, New York               Mike Collins, Georgia115Shomari Figures, Alabama,            Kevin Kiley, California116  Vice Ranking Member                Vince Fong, California117Steve Cohen, Tennessee               Tony Wied, Wisconsin118Dina Titus, Nevada                   Tom Barrett, Michigan119Salud O. Carbajal, California        Robert P. Bresnahan, Jr.,120Greg Stanton, Arizona                Pennsylvania, Vice Chairman121Sharice Davids, Kansas               Jeff Hurd, Colorado122Seth Moulton, Massachusetts          Jefferson Shreve, Indiana123Robert Garcia, California            Addison P. McDowell, North124Rick Larsen, Washington (Ex Officio) Carolina125                                     David J. Taylor, Ohio126                                     Brad Knott, North Carolina127                                     Kimberlyn King-Hinds,128                                       Northern Mariana Islands129                                     Mike Kennedy, Utah130                                     Sam Graves, Missouri (Ex Officio)131132                                CONTENTS133134                                                                   Page135136Summary of Subject Matter........................................   vii137138                 STATEMENTS OF MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE139140Hon. David Rouzer, a Representative in Congress from the State of141  North Carolina, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Highways and142  Transit, opening statement.....................................     1143    Prepared statement...........................................     3144Hon. Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress from the State of145  Washington, and Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and146  Infrastructure, opening statement..............................     4147    Prepared statement...........................................     5148Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Delegate in Congress from the149  District of Columbia, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on150  Highways and Transit, opening statement........................     6151    Prepared statement...........................................     7152Hon. Sam Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State of153  Missouri, and Chairman, Committee on Transportation and154  Infrastructure, prepared statement.............................    93155156                               WITNESSES157158Nathaniel Phillip Ford, Sr., Chief Executive Officer,159  Jacksonville Transportation Authority, on behalf of the160  American Public Transportation Association (APTA), oral161  statement......................................................     9162    Prepared statement...........................................    11163Barbara K. Cline, Executive Director, Prairie Hills Transit, on164  behalf of the Community Transportation Association of America165  (CTAA), oral statement.........................................    18166    Prepared statement...........................................    20167Matthew Booterbaugh, Chief Executive Officer, RATP Dev USA, on168  behalf of the North American Transit Alliance (NATA), oral169  statement......................................................    24170    Prepared statement...........................................    26171Baruch Feigenbaum, Senior Managing Director for Transportation172  Policy, Reason Foundation, oral statement......................    29173    Prepared statement...........................................    31174Greg Regan, President, Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO175  (TTD), oral statement..........................................    33176    Prepared statement...........................................    35177178                                APPENDIX179180Questions from Hon. Hillary J. Scholten to Nathaniel Phillip181  Ford, Sr., Chief Executive Officer, Jacksonville Transportation182  Authority, on behalf of the American Public Transportation183  Association (APTA).............................................    95184185                             April 4, 2025186187    SUMMARY OF SUBJECT MATTER188189    TO:      LMembers, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit190    FROM:  LStaff, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit191    RE:      LSubcommittee Hearing on ``America Builds: A192Review of Our Nation's Transit Policies and Programs''193_______________________________________________________________________194195                               I. PURPOSE196197    The Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee198on Transportation and Infrastructure will meet on Wednesday,199April 9, 2025, at 10:00 a.m. ET in 2167 of the Rayburn House200Office Building to receive testimony at a hearing entitled,201``America Builds: A Review of Our Nation's Transit Policies and202Programs.'' The hearing will provide Subcommittee Members with203the opportunity to receive testimony on policies and programs204within the United States Department of Transportation's (DOT's)205Federal Transit Administration (FTA). At the hearing, Members206will receive testimony from witnesses on behalf of the American207Public Transportation Association (APTA), the Community208Transportation Association of America (CTAA), the North209American Transit Alliance (NATA), the Reason Foundation, and210the Transportation Trades Department of the AFL-CIO.211212                             II. BACKGROUND213214    The first Federal transit program was created under the215Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964, and was managed by the216Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD).\1\ In 1968,217the Urban Mass Transportation Administration (UMTA) was created218under DOT.\2\ As the program grew to support Nationwide transit219systems for all communities--including rural areas, seniors,220and people with disabilities--UMTA was renamed FTA in 1991.\3\221FTA aims to improve America's communities by supporting transit222systems across the Nation with funding and technical223assistance. Transit systems include buses, subways, light rail,224commuter rail, trolleys, and ferries.\4\225---------------------------------------------------------------------------226    \1\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, FTA History, (last updated Feb. 25,2272025), available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/brief-history-228mass-transit.229    \2\ Id.230    \3\ Id.231    \4\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, About FTA, available at https://232www.transit.dot.gov/about-fta.233---------------------------------------------------------------------------234    In 1982, Congress enacted the Surface Transportation235Assistance Act (STAA) (P.L. 97-424), which implemented a five-236cent per gallon increase in the gasoline tax, for a total tax237of nine-cents per gallon.\5\ Under STAA, Congress also238established a mass transit account (MTA) in the Highway Trust239Fund (HTF).\6\ The MTA was created to fund public240transportation such as buses, railways, subways, and ferries,241and allows for the use of limited funds for operating expenses242in rural and small urbanized areas.\7\243---------------------------------------------------------------------------244    \5\ Jeff Davis, Highway Trust Fund 101, Eno Center for Transp.,245(updated Aug. 15, 2023), available at https://enotrans.org/article/246highway-trust-fund-101/ [hereinafter Davis].247    \6\ Davis, supra note 5.248    \7\ Robert S. Kirk & William J. Mallett, Cong. Rsch. Serv.249(R47573), Funding and Financing Highway and Public Transportation Under250the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, (May 24, 2023), available251at https://www.everycrsreport.com/files/2023-05-25224_R47573_2fdd993640445d646286ecfe0df6cc5570d409a6.pdf.253---------------------------------------------------------------------------254    Under STAA, lawmakers enacted a political agreement255referred to as the ``Great Compromise'' or the ``80-20 highway-256transit split.'' The compromise traded an increase in the gas257tax for an agreement to deposit one cent (20 percent of the new258tax increase) into the newly created MTA within the HTF. The259remaining four cents (80 percent of the new tax increase) would260be deposited into the highway account (HA). The Great261Compromise agreement only pertained to the gas tax increase in262STAA, not total gas taxes collected. Further, it did not263dictate authorization amounts or spending from either the HA or264the MTA. All subsequent fuel tax increases have maintained the26580-20 highway-transit split on revenue deposited into the HTF.266The entirety of the pre-1982 gasoline and diesel tax rates, as267well as all trucking industry excise taxes, continue to be268deposited into the HA. The MTA's share of HTF revenue is269approximately 12 to 13 percent.\8\270---------------------------------------------------------------------------271    \8\ Davis, supra note 5.272---------------------------------------------------------------------------273274                    III. COVID-19 IMPACT ON TRANSIT275276    In October 2014, transit ridership reached a record high of277nearly 990 million rides.\9\ From that peak until the pandemic,278National ridership levels largely stayed between 700 million279and 900 million, but trended downward, as shown on the chart280below.\10\ Public transportation ridership declined by about281seven percent in the years before COVID-19 due to a combination282of factors including the relatively low cost of driving, the283rise of shared ride and micromobility options, and the284continued decentralization of jobs and housing.\11\285---------------------------------------------------------------------------286    \9\ Fed. Reserve Bank of St. Louis, Public Transit Ridership, (last287accessed May 22, 2024), available at https://fred.stlouisfed.org/288series/TRANSIT [hereinafter Fed. Reserve Bank].289    \10\ Id.290    \11\ William J. Mallett, Cong. Rsch Serv. (IN11913), Public291Transportation Faces Post-Pandemic Challenges, (Apr. 18, 2022),292available at https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11913.293294---------------------------------------------------------------------------295           LFigure 1: Public Transit Ridership 2002-2024.\12\296297    The\\ COVID-19 pandemic had a sharp impact on public298transportation.\13\ Frontline transit workers, who stayed on299the job to ensure other essential workers could access their300workplaces, were among the many tragic deaths attributable to301COVID-19 in America.\14\ Transit agencies Nationwide302experienced declining ridership in the early days of the303pandemic, and ridership on the Nation's transit systems has yet304to recover fully from the disruption of COVID-19, including the305lasting changes to travel, work, and commuting patterns.\15\ By306April 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic and various suggested and307mandated mitigation practices caused monthly ridership to308plummet by more than 78 percent.\16\ Some larger systems saw a309drop in ridership of up to 90 percent.\17\ These dramatic310decreases in ridership and associated fare collections forced311local transit agencies to consider dynamic changes to312operational strategies.\18\ By July 2020, nearly 50 percent of313transit agencies reported service modifications in response to314the loss of riders whose daily travel had lessened.\19\ This315loss of fare-paying riders, paired with decreased local sales316tax collections, created a historic deficiency of incoming317revenue for transit systems.\20\318---------------------------------------------------------------------------319    \12\ Fed. Reserve Bank, supra note 9.320    \13\ Johns Hopkins University of Medicine, Coronavirus Resource321Center, United States Overview, (last updated Mar. 10, 2023), available322at https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/united-states.323    \14\ Dana Rubinstein, MTA Agrees to Give Death Benefits to Scores324of Coronavirus Victims' Families, Politico, (Apr. 14, 2020), available325at https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/04/14/326mta-agrees-to-give-death-benefits-to-scores-of-coronavirus-victims-327families-1275743.328    \15\ American Public Transit Assoc.., Moving Through the Crisis:329Mobility Recovery & Restoration Task Force Rep., (Oct. 2020) available330at https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/APTA-Task-Force-Report-3312020.pdf.332    \16\ Id.333    \17\ Robert Puentes, COVID's Differing Impact on Transit Ridership,334Eno Center for Transp., (Apr. 24, 2020), available at https://335enotrans.org/article/covids-differing-impact-on-transit-ridership/.336    \18\ William J. Mallett, Cong. Rsch Serv. (IN11913), Public337Transportation Faces Post-Pandemic Challenges, (Apr. 18, 2022),338available at https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11913.339    \19\ Moving the Nation Through Crisis: Mobility Recovery &340Restoration Task Force Report, APTA, (Oct. 2020), available at https://341www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/APTA-Task-Force-Report-2020.pdf.342    \20\ Id.343---------------------------------------------------------------------------344    FTA distributed almost $70 billion in emergency345supplemental funding enacted by Congress to systems to cover346short-term budget gaps due to the reduction in farebox returns347and increased costs resulting from COVID-19 requirements.\21\348Of the total, Congress provided $25 billion in the Coronavirus349Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, (P.L. 116-136),350$14 billion in the Coronavirus Response and Relief Supplemental351Appropriations Act (CRRSAA) (P.L.116-260), and $30.5 billion in352the American Rescue Plan (ARPA) (P.L. 117-2).\22\353---------------------------------------------------------------------------354    \21\ Cong. Budget Off., Federal Financial Support for Public355Transp., (Mar. 2022), available at https://www.cbo.gov/publication/35657940.357    \22\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic358Security (CARES) Act, (last updated Feb. 19, 2021), available at359https://www.transit.dot.gov/cares-act; see also Dep't of Transp., FTA,360Coronavirus Response and Relief Supplemental Appropriations Act361(CRRSAA) Transit Infrastructure Grants, (Jan. 8, 2021), available at362https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-programs/legislation/363coronavirus-response-and-relief-supplemental-appropriations; see also364Dep't of Transp., FTA, American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, (last accessed365May, 22, 2024), available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/366american-rescue-plan-act-2021.367---------------------------------------------------------------------------368    Emergency COVID supplemental funding for transit agencies,369enacted by Congress, was greater than three times the amount370recovered from fares and additional operating revenue in 2019,371with much of the provided funding eligible to be expended for372transit agency operating expenses.\23\ Non-emergency Federal373transit funding typically cannot be expended on transit agency374operating expenses in large, urbanized areas. Labor costs,375which include wages, salaries, and pension benefits, made up376more than half of all operating expenses for transit agencies377in 2022.\24\ Allowing emergency funding to be used on operating378expenses kept transit workers on the job and helped maintain379essential mobility services.380---------------------------------------------------------------------------381    \23\ William J. Mallett, Cong. Rsch Serv. (R47900), Federal Support382of Public Transportation Operating Expenses, (Jan. 18, 2024), available383at https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47900.384    \24\ Dep't of Transp., FTA Office of Budget and Policy, Single385Summary of Transit Report: 2022 Edition, (last updated Jan. 3, 2024),386available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/2024-38701/2022-Single-Summary-of-Transit_v1_1.pdf.388---------------------------------------------------------------------------389    As pandemic-era restrictions waned and new work390arrangements and traveling patterns developed, public391transportation agencies were forced to reorient services and392operations to meet new commuter habits.\25\ For example, as393more employees return to in-office work, ridership numbers have394slowly started to increase. The Washington Metropolitan Area395Transit Authority (WMATA) has reported its highest ridership396levels during the morning rush hour since the pandemic with the397Administration's return to work order for Federal398employees.\26\399---------------------------------------------------------------------------400    \25\ Parth Doshi et al., Adapting to the Future: Transformative401Actions for Transit Agencies in a Post-COVID Era, Boston Consulting402Group, (June 2023), available at https://web-assets.bcg.com/3d/00/403ff2c27f34d93a43554175899c967/adapting-to-the-future-transformative-404actions-for-transit-agencies-in-a-post-covid-era.pdf.405    \26\ Adam Tuss, Metro Ridership Nears 5-Year High as Federal406Workers Return to Offices, NBC4 Washington, (Feb. 25, 2025), available407at https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/metro-408ridership-nears-5-year-high-as-federal-workers-return-to-offices/4093852751/.410---------------------------------------------------------------------------411412                  IV. MAJOR FTA POLICIES AND PROGRAMS413414FUNDING415416    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) (P.L.417117-58), enacted in November 2021, reauthorized and expanded418Federal public transportation agency programs. IIJA authorized419$108.2 billion for public transportation, the largest Federal420investment in transit programs in United States history.\27\421This legislation authorized historic increases for both formula422and discretionary funding, as well as provided advanced423appropriations for transit programs.\28\ Of the provided $108.2424billion, $69.9 billion was authorized from the MTA of the425HTF.\29\ IIJA provided a 77 percent increase over FTA annual426funding amounts compared to the previous authorization427period.\30\428---------------------------------------------------------------------------429    \27\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, IIJA, (last updated Nov. 15, 2023),430available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/IIJA.431    \28\ IIJA, Pub. L. No. 117-58, 135 Stat. 429432    \29\ IIJA, Pub. L. No. 117-58, 135 Stat. 429 (numbers tabulated by433Transp. and Infrastructure Comm. Staff).434    \30\ Dep't of Transp., Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act435Authorized Funding, (last accessed June 7, 2024), available at https://436www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2022-01/437DOT_Infrastructure_Investment_and_Jobs_Act_Authorization_Table_%28IIJA%24389.pdf; see also DOT, FTA, FAST Act Estimated Program Totals, (Dec. 1,4392015), available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/440files/docs/FAST_ACT_FTA_Program_Totals.pdf.441---------------------------------------------------------------------------442    Over the five-year span of IIJA, the law authorizes and443appropriates $33.5 billion to Urbanized Area Formula Grants,444$4.6 billion for Rural Area Formula Grants, $23 billion for the445Capital Investment Grant program, $23.1 billion for State of446Good Repair Grants for transit system repair and maintenance,447$5.6 billion for low- or no-emission vehicle grants, and nearly448$4 billion for transit system accessibility and mobility grant449programs.\31\ IIJA also provided approximately $50 million450annually, on average, for the State Safety Oversight Program,451which supports the oversight of safety on rail fixed guideway452transit systems not under the jurisdiction of the Federal453Railroad Administration (FRA).\32\ These funding amounts454constitute a 77 percent increase over the prior FTA455authorization included in the Fixing America's Surface456Transportation (FAST) Act (P.L. 114-94), in addition to the457almost $70 billion provided by Congress in emergency458supplemental funding.\33\459---------------------------------------------------------------------------460    \31\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, IIJA, (last updated Nov. 15, 2023),461available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/IIJA.462    \32\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, Fact Sheet: Public Transportation463Safety Program, (Dec. 9, 2023), available at https://464www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/fact-sheet-public-transportation-465safety-program.466    \33\ Dep't of Transp., Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act467Authorized Funding, (last accessed June 7, 2024), available at https://468www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2022-01/469DOT_Infrastructure_Investment_and_Jobs_Act_Authorization_Table_%28IIJA%24709.pdf; see also DOT, FTA, FAST Act Estimated Program Totals, (Dec. 1,4712015), available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/472files/docs/FAST_ACT_FTA_Program_Totals.pdf.473---------------------------------------------------------------------------474475SAFETY476477    IIJA included provisions to continue and update FTA-478administered programs dedicated to transit rider and transit479worker safety, including updates to improve safety training and480reduce assaults on transit workers, revisions to transit agency481safety plans, the creation of new joint labor-management safety482committees, and the issuance of updated standards for transit483worker protections.\34\ On September 25, 2024, FTA published484General Directive 24-1: Required Actions Regarding Assaults on485Transit Workers, to address transit worker assaults and486mitigation tactics to include in Agency Safety Plans.\35\ On487March 25, 2024, FTA published a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking488related to Rail Transit Roadway Worker Protection, including489new performance standard measures to prevent accidents,490incidents, fatalities, and injuries to transit workers in rail491transit rights-of-way.\36\492---------------------------------------------------------------------------493    \34\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, IIJA, (last updated Nov. 15, 2023),494available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/IIJA.495    \35\ Proposed General Directive 24-1: Required Actions Regarding496Assaults on Transit Workers, 88 Fed. Reg. 88213 (Dec. 20, 2023),497available at https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/12/20/2023-49828002/proposed-general-directive-24-1-required-actions-regarding-499assaults-on-transit-workers.500    \36\ Rail Transit Roadway Worker Protection, 89 Fed. Reg. 20605501(Mar. 25, 2024), available at https://www.federalregister.gov/502documents/2024/03/25/2024-06251/rail-transit-roadway-worker-protection.503---------------------------------------------------------------------------504    IIJA also updated the requirements for FTA's National505Public Transportation Safety Plan and the requirements for506transit agency Public Transportation Agency Safety Plans,507including requirements that FTA update safety management system508processes, expand de-escalation training, and promulgate509measures to address safety risks, including assaults, for510transit workers.\37\ On April 9, 2024, the FTA published a511Final Rule updating the Public Transportation Agency Safety512Plan regulations requiring greater safety-related engagement513between agency workers and management and updated safety data514standards.\38\ Additionally, the Final Rule establishes joint515labor-management Safety Committees, which require an equal516number of frontline employees as management representatives.517Frontline employees must be selected by a labor organization518representing the plurality of employees.\39\ Safety Committees519must approve Agency Safety Plans for the agency to receive520Federal funding under the Urbanized Area Formula grant521program.\40\522---------------------------------------------------------------------------523    \37\ Dep't of Transp., FTA, Public Transportation Agency Safety524Plans, (last accessed Mar. 17, 2025), available at https://525www.transit.dot.gov/PTASP.526    \38\ Id.527    \39\ Public Transp. Agency Safety Plans, 89 Fed. Reg. 25694 (Apr.52811, 2024).529    \40\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5307.530---------------------------------------------------------------------------531532MODERNIZATION AND NEW PROPULSION TECHNOLOGIES533534    FTA has a number of programs aimed at modernizing transit535systems. The Urbanized Area Formula funding program (5307) and536the Rural Area Formula funding program (5311) funds are537apportioned to states and designated recipients for transit538capital and operating assistance.\41\ An ``urban area'' is539defined as a population of 50,000 or more, while a ``rural540area'' is less than 50,000 in population.\42\ The State of Good541Repair Grant Program (5337) provides formula funds to urbanized542areas to help maintain, replace, or rehabilitate projects on543fixed-guideway and motorbus systems. Entities can also develop544Transit Asset Management plans under 5337.\43\ The Rail Vehicle545Replacement grant program also falls under 5337 and is a546competitive program that funds capital projects to replace rail547rolling stock.\44\548---------------------------------------------------------------------------549    \41\ Id.; see also 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5311.550    \42\ Id.551    \43\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5337.552    \44\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5337(f).553---------------------------------------------------------------------------554    The Capital Investment Grants (CIG) program is a555competitive program that funds capital investments for larger556projects, including heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail,557street cars, and bus rapid transit.\45\ CIG funding requires558applicants to complete multiple phases prior to receiving559funding. The CIG program is broken down into three categories:560New Starts, Core Capacity, and Small Starts. The New Starts561account funds projects whose total cost is equal to or greater562than $400 million, while the Small Starts account funds563projects whose total cost is less than $400 million.\46\ The564Core Capacity account is for substantial corridor-based565investments in existing fixed guideway systems that will566increase capacity by at least ten percent.\47\ The New Starts567and Core Capacity accounts are required to complete the project568development phase and engineering phase before receiving a full569funding grant agreement (FFGA).\48\ The Small Starts program570requires applicants to pass through the project development571phase before a grant agreement is reached.\49\572---------------------------------------------------------------------------573    \45\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5309.574    \46\ Id.575    \47\ Id.576    \48\ William J. Mallett, Cong. Rsch Serv. (R44534), Public577Transportation Capital Investment Grant (New Starts) Program:578Background and Issues for Congress, (June 20, 2016), available at579https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R44534.580    \49\ Id.581---------------------------------------------------------------------------582    FTA's Bus and Bus Facilities (5339) has both a formula583(5339)(a) and competitive (5339)(b) grant program to help584replace, rehabilitate, or purchase buses and related equipment585and construct bus facilities.\50\ The Low- or No-Emission grant586program (5339)(c) is an additional competitive program that587provides funding to purchase or lease zero-emission and low-588emission transit buses and related equipment.\51\ Under IIJA, a58925 percent set aside was created for funding to go towards low-590emission buses, rather than zero-emission buses.\52\591---------------------------------------------------------------------------592    \50\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5339.593    \51\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5339(c).594    \52\ Id.; see also IIJA Sec.  30018; see also IIJA Division J.595---------------------------------------------------------------------------596597ACCESSIBILITY598599    FTA also has dedicated programs to address accessibility on600transit systems. The All Stations Accessibility Program (ASAP)601is a competitive program that allows transit agencies to602repair, improve, modify or retrofit stations or facilities to603make it accessible for individuals with disabilities.\53\604Enhanced Mobility for Seniors and Individuals with Disabilities605is a formula program that apportions funds based on each606state's share of population for seniors and individuals with607disabilities to address mobility challenges, such as wheelchair608lifts or contracted paratransit services.\54\609---------------------------------------------------------------------------610    \53\ IIJA Division J.611    \54\ 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5310.612---------------------------------------------------------------------------613614                              V. WITNESSES615616     LMr. Nathaniel P. Ford, Sr., Chief Executive617Officer, Jacksonville Transportation Authority, on behalf of618the American Public Transportation Association (APTA)619     LMs. Barbara K. Cline, Executive Director, Prairie620Hills Transit, on behalf of the Community Transportation621Association of America (CTAA)622     LMr. Matthew Booterbaugh, Chief Executive Officer,623RATP Dev USA, on behalf of the North American Transit Alliance624(NATA)625     LMr. Baruch Feigenbaum, Senior Managing Director,626Transportation Policy, Reason Foundation627     LMr. Greg Regan, President, Transportation Trades628Department, AFL-CIO (TTD)629630 AMERICA BUILDS: A REVIEW OF OUR NATION'S TRANSIT POLICIES AND PROGRAMS631632                              ----------633634                        WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2025635636                  House of Representatives,637              Subcommittee on Highways and Transit,638            Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure,639                                                    Washington, DC.640    The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:11 a.m., in641Room 2167, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. David Rouzer642(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.643    Mr. Rouzer. The Subcommittee on Highways and Transit will644come to order.645    I ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to646declare a recess at any time during today's hearing.647    Without objection, so ordered.648    I also ask unanimous consent that Members not on the649subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at650today's hearing and ask questions.651    Without objection, so ordered.652    As a reminder, if Members wish to insert a document into653the record, please also email it to DocumentsTI@mail.house.gov.654    Now, before I deliver an opening statement, I understand655that we have a big birthday coming up.656    Ms. King-Hinds, I understand you will be 30 years old. Is657that correct?658    Ms. King-Hinds. That's right.659    Mr. Rouzer. Happy birthday.660    [Applause.]661    Mr. Rouzer. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for the662purposes of an opening statement.663664   OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID ROUZER OF NORTH CAROLINA,665         CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHWAYS AND TRANSIT666667    Mr. Rouzer. Today's hearing examines key issues concerning668our Nation's public transportation programs as the subcommittee669works to develop and enact an on-time, multiyear surface670transportation bill.671    The Federal Transit Administration, or FTA, provides672funding and technical assistance to public transportation673systems across the Nation to move people safely, connecting674them to workplaces, airports, doctors' appointments, and more.675From buses and streetcars to ferries and rail systems, transit676systems connect our communities and have the potential to drive677greater economic opportunities, especially in rural areas.678    Ensuring transit services reflect the needs of communities679served while providing such services efficiently and safely is680a goal all lawmakers share. Unfortunately, it is no secret that681pandemic-era restrictions and work-from-home policies made682already declining ridership rates that much worse, resulting in683a historic decline in overall fare revenue collections for684transit systems of all sizes across the Nation.685    In response, Congress provided FTA with nearly $70 billion686in supplemental funding to cover short-term budget gaps, mainly687for operating expenses and labor costs. Shortly after, the688Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, or IIJA as we call it,689was signed into law in November 2021 and provided $108.2690billion for public transportation through fiscal year 2026.691    IIJA alone authorized a 77-percent increase in Federal692funds for FTA compared to the prior FAST Act authorization.693    When you combine both IIJA and the supplemental COVID694funding, nearly 180 billion Federal taxpayer dollars have been695directed to public transportation systems since 2020.696    Despite this significant investment, ridership today hovers697around 79 percent of prepandemic levels. Concerningly, crime698has become more rampant on several transit systems, endangering699passengers and transit workers alike. The traveling public700deserves better and so do the men and women who work around the701clock to transport riders safely to their destinations.702Congress must work to hold recipients of Federal dollars703accountable and ensure public transportation services are704reliable, safe, and maintained to a certain standard.705    Thankfully, the Trump administration has taken Federal706investments in our transit system seriously and is directing707certain legacy systems to reduce crime and fare evasion to708improve security for passengers and workers. I commend709Secretary Duffy for taking a strong look at this and conducting710much-needed oversight of these systems. We look forward to711working with the administration to advance commonsense reforms712to improve the ridership experience.713    Now, with the structural deficits our Nation is running, we714can no longer afford to throw money at issues and hope to see715changes, and this includes public transportation systems. We716have an opportunity in the next surface bill to ensure public717transportation systems have the flexibilities needed to deliver718high-quality services.719    Each community is unique in its ridership needs and its720delivery of services. And while some systems have reduced or721eliminated fares in the hopes of increasing their ridership722rates, others have pursued innovative strategies to increase723efficiency, such as reorienting services and routes, employing724microtransit, or expanding use of contracted services.725    It is always helpful to define what success is, and it begs726the question as to whether ridership is the appropriate measure727to determine the health of the transit system, given the728variation of factors that apply.729    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about730what they feel is working in the transit industry and what731challenges transit systems face that this subcommittee may need732to address as we work to reauthorize our Nation's surface733transportation programs.734    [Mr. Rouzer's prepared statement follows:]735736 Prepared Statement of Hon. David Rouzer, a Representative in Congress737    from the State of North Carolina, and Chairman, Subcommittee on738                          Highways and Transit739    Today's hearing examines key issues concerning our nation's public740transportation programs as the Subcommittee works to develop and enact741an on-time, multi-year surface transportation bill.742    The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) provides funding and743technical assistance to public transportation systems across the nation744to move people safely and connect them to workplaces, airports,745doctors' appointments, and more. From buses and streetcars to ferries746and rail systems, transit systems connect our communities and have the747potential to drive greater economic opportunities, especially in rural748areas.749    Ensuring that transit services reflect the needs of the communities750served, while providing such services efficiently and safely, is a goal751that I believe all lawmakers share. Unfortunately, it is no secret that752pandemic era restrictions and work-from-home policies made already753declining ridership rates that much worse, resulting in a historic754decline in overall fare revenue collections for transit systems of all755sizes across the nation. In response, Congress provided FTA with nearly756$70 billion in supplemental funding to cover short-term budget gaps,757mainly for operating expenses and labor costs. Shortly after, the758Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) was signed into law in759November 2021 and provided $108.2 billion for public transportation760through fiscal year 2026.761    IIJA alone authorized a 77 percent increase in federal funds for762FTA compared to the prior authorization, the FAST Act. When you combine763both IIJA and the supplemental COVID funding, nearly $180 billion764federal taxpayer dollars have been directed to public transportation765systems since 2020.766    Despite this significant investment, ridership today hovers around76779 percent of pre-pandemic levels. Concerningly, crime has become more768rampant on several transit systems, endangering passengers and transit769workers alike. The traveling public deserves better and so do the men770and women who work around the clock to transport riders safely to their771destinations. Congress must work to hold recipients of federal dollars772accountable and ensure that public transportation services are773reliable, safe, and maintained to a certain standard.774    Thankfully, the Trump Administration has taken federal investments775in our transit systems seriously and is directing certain legacy776systems to reduce crime and fare evasion to improve security for777passengers and workers. I commend Secretary Duffy for taking a strong778look at this and conducting much needed oversight of these systems. I779look forward to working with the Trump Administration to advance780commonsense reforms to improve the ridership experience.781    Now with the structural deficits our nation is running, we can no782longer afford to throw money at issues and hope to see change, and this783includes public transportation systems. We have an opportunity in the784next surface bill to ensure that public transportation systems have the785flexibilities they need to deliver high-quality services.786    Each community is unique in its ridership needs and its delivery of787services. And while some systems have reduced or eliminated fares in788hopes of increasing their ridership rates, others have pursued789innovative strategies to increase efficiency, such as reorienting790services and routes, employing microtransit, or expanding use of791contracted services.792    It is always helpful to define what success is, and it begs the793question as to whether ridership is an appropriate measure to determine794the health of a transit system given the variation of factors that795apply.796    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about what they797feel is working in the transit industry, and what challenges transit798systems face that this subcommittee may need to address as we work to799reauthorize our nation's surface transportation programs.800801    Mr. Rouzer. I now recognize the ranking member of the full802committee, Mr. Larsen, for his opening statement.803804 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICK LARSEN OF WASHINGTON, RANKING805     MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE806807    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Thank you, Chair Rouzer.808    And as we know, Ranking Member Norton is in a markup in a809different committee that has its hearing room moved to the810other side of the Capitol, so it is taking a bit to get over811here.812    So I will just step in to get us started and just note that813the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law has made landmark investments814across all ways of traveling that keep people moving and keep815our economy moving. That includes investments in transit.816    Congress provided record transit investments that are817improving safety. They are helping transit agencies purchase818new buses and railcars, and, therefore, creating jobs and819economic opportunity. Transit agencies are taking proactive820steps to support ridership by redesigning bus networks, adding821service on nights and weekends, improving frequency, and822providing better pay and incentives to workers.823    Communities are reaping these benefits with transit824rebounding to 84 percent of pre-COVID ridership levels. In my825own district, a lot of this is happening. All these innovations826that the chair discussed are all happening in my district,827depending on the transit agency, as well. A lot of these828investments have occurred in my district, including $15 million829for Island Transit on Whidbey Island that is exploring the830purchasing of hydrogen fuel cell buses and fueling831infrastructure. There are reinvestments into operation and832maintenance of facilities, as well.833    These investments have brought over $58 million for834Community Transit's Swift Orange Line BRT. That service has835been open for just over 1 year, and it has already transported836810,000 riders. Similar investments are happening all over the837country.838    The BIL included investments to broaden the reach of839transit and ensure that transit works better for everyone.840Congress created the All Stations Accessibility Program to make841sure we are living up to the promises of the Americans with842Disabilities Act. Congress has provided support for ferry843service in rural areas and investments in low-emission vessels844of the future.845    The BIL is replacing aging railcars to make transit systems846more reliable for travelers. Congress also prioritized847protecting frontline transit workers and providing them the848skills they need to operate and maintain the next generation of849buses. These investments are, as well, boosting the economy and850creating jobs.851    Transit provides economic security for those who ride852transit systems and those who help build, maintain, and operate853them. The transit industry is a significant job creator,854directly employing 430,000 people and, of course, supporting855millions of private-sector jobs. Seventy-seven percent of856Federal public transportation investments flow to the private857sector, and every $1 billion that we authorize and gets spent858for transit that we provide creates or sustains 50,000 jobs.859    And so today, we will hear a lot of testimony. We will hear860from the Transportation Trades Department of the AFL-CIO whose861members proudly do these jobs every day. I look forward to862learning how Congress can continue to support transit workers863in the reauthorization bill.864    Even businesses that do not have a direct tie to the865transit industry reap these benefits since nearly 9 out of 10866transit trips have a direct impact on local economies.867    Transit is a tangible cost-saver for individual families.868According to one of our witnesses today, the American Public869Transportation Association, the average household spends 16870cents of every dollar on transportation, and 93 percent of this871goes to buying, maintaining, and operating cars--the largest872single-family expenditure after housing.873    By taking transit and living with one less car, the874potential for households is that they can save $13,000 a year875to spend on other things. Providing options to ensure people876can get to where they need to go is even more crucial today as877costs mount for Americans.878    Now, while the BIL made historic strides to improve public879transit systems and service, transit systems require ongoing880investment. The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates a881$152 billion backlog over the next 10 years to bring our882transit systems up to a state of good repair. Disinvestment in883America's infrastructure did not happen overnight, nor will it884be fixed overnight. That is why we need to build on the885progress that we made in the BIL.886    I am committed to developing a bipartisan transportation887bill, and transit will be a key component of that. Whether you888represent a major city, suburban communities, or rural areas,889like I do in my district--all over the place--there are people,890regardless of how they get around, they do rely on transit, and891they are employed in the transit sector.892    So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about893how we can build on the success from the BIL and what we ought894to be thinking about as we build the new surface transportation895bill.896    With that, I yield back.897    [Mr. Larsen of Washington's prepared statement follows:]898899 Prepared Statement of Hon. Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress900    from the State of Washington, and Ranking Member, Committee on901                   Transportation and Infrastructure902    Thank you, Chairman Rouzer and Ranking Member Norton, for holding903this hearing on the role of transit in supporting our economy and904getting people where they need to go.905    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law made landmark investments across906all ways of traveling that keep our economy moving, including transit.907    Congress provided record transit investments that are improving908safety, helping transit agencies purchase new buses and rail cars and,909therefore, creating jobs and economic opportunity.910    Transit agencies are taking proactive steps to support ridership by911redesigning bus networks, adding service on nights and weekends,912improving frequency and providing better pay and incentives to workers.913    Communities are reaping the benefits of these efforts, with transit914rebounding to 84 percent of its pre-COVID ridership levels.915    A lot of these investments have occurred in my district, including916$15 million for Island Transit on Whidbey Island. It is exploring917purchasing hydrogen fuel cell buses and fueling infrastructure. There's918reinvestments into operation maintenance facilities, as well.919    These investments have brought over $58 million for Community920Transit's Swift Orange Line BRT. The service has been open for just921over a year and has already transported 810,000 riders.922    Similar investments are happening all across the country.923    The BIL included investments to broaden the reach of transit and924ensure that transit works better for everyone.925    Congress created the All Stations Accessibility Program to make926sure we are living up to the promises of the Americans with927Disabilities Act.928    Congress provided support for ferry service in rural areas and929investments in the low-emission vessels of the future.930    The BIL is replacing aging railcars to make transit systems more931reliable for travelers.932    Congress also prioritized protecting frontline transit workers and933providing them the skills they need to operate and maintain the next934generation of buses.935    These investments are boosting our economy and creating jobs.936    Transit provides economic security for those who ride transit937systems and those who help build, maintain and operate them. The938transit industry is a significant job creator, directly employing939430,000 people and supporting millions of private-sector jobs.940    Seventy-seven percent of federal public transportation investments941flow to the private sector, and every $1 billion Congress provides942creates or sustains 50,000 jobs.943    Today, we will hear testimony from the Transportation Trades944Department, whose members proudly do these jobs every day. I look945forward to learning how Congress can continue to support transit946workers in the reauthorization bill.947    Even businesses that do not have a direct tie to the transit948industry reap the benefits since nearly nine out of every ten transit949trips have a direct impact on local economies.950    Transit is also a tangible cost saver for individual families.951According to one of our witnesses today, the American Public952Transportation Association, the average household spends 16 cents of953every dollar on transportation, and 93 percent of this goes to buying,954maintaining and operating cars--the largest single-family expenditure955after housing.956    By taking transit and living with one less car, households can save957$13,000 each year to spend on other things. Providing options to ensure958people can get where they need to go is even more crucial today as959costs mount for more Americans.960    While the BIL made historic strides to improve public transit961systems and service, transit systems require ongoing investment.962    The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates a $152 billion963backlog over the next 10 years to bring our transit systems up to a964state of good repair.965    Disinvestment in America's infrastructure did not happen966overnight--nor will it be fixed overnight. That's why we need to build967on the progress made in the BIL.968    I am committed to developing a bipartisan reauthorization bill, and969transit will be a key component of that.970    Whether you represent a major city, a suburban community or a rural971area, like I do, there are people in your district who rely on transit972or are employed in the transit sector.973    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how we can974continue the success we have seen from the BIL and what elements this975Committee should be thinking about as we reauthorize it.976977    Mr. Rouzer. Ms. Norton, you are recognized.978979OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON OF THE DISTRICT980   OF COLUMBIA, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHWAYS AND981                            TRANSIT982983    Ms. Norton. I would like to thank subcommittee Chair Rouzer984for holding this hearing on our Nation's transit systems.985Transit is the backbone of communities of every size, safely986and efficiently connecting people to jobs, healthcare,987education, groceries, amenities, and loved ones.988    The story of our Nation's transit systems in the post-COVID989era is a comeback story. Transit systems are steadily990recovering from pandemic ridership loss. On average, transit991systems have regained 84 percent of riders since the earliest992days of the pandemic, a rebound that is evident across every993mode.994    In some systems, that number is even higher. Here in the995national capital region, Metro recently surpassed 1 million996daily riders, a 5-year high. Metro has led the country in997ridership recovery with 48 consecutive months of ridership998growth.999    You don't have to be a transit rider yourself to celebrate1000these gains. Every dollar Congress invests in transit generates1001$5 in economic returns. Without public transit, DC would lose1002more than $9 billion--that is billion dollars with a ``b''--1003worth of economic activity due to traffic gridlock, delays in1004freight shipments, and lack of access to jobs.1005    Transit is also the safest way to travel. Traveling by1006transit is 10 times safer than driving.1007    In 2021, Congress delivered the largest transit investment1008in the Nation's history through the Infrastructure Investment1009and Jobs Act. That law provided $108 billion to upgrade and1010modernize transit systems.1011    In rural and urban communities alike, that law is helping1012transit agencies expand their service areas; purchase newer,1013greener fleets; and keep operators safe on the job. For1014example, Metro received more than $100 million to transition to1015zero-emission buses, which will reduce pollution, improve air1016quality, and keep the DC region on the move.1017    Whether you are a transit rider or not, transit plays a1018crucial role in our transit system. Contrary to popular belief,1019there are more rural transit agencies than urban transit1020agencies.1021    For many, riding transit is a choice. For others, transit1022may be their only option, including if they are in the 101023percent of the adult population which does not drive because of1024disability, cost, or personal choice. Transit is a lifeline1025that is safe, affordable, and climate friendly.1026    I look forward to working with my colleagues to continue1027this committee's long history of supporting transit in the next1028surface transportation bill.1029    Thank you.1030    [Ms. Norton's prepared statement follows:]10311032    Prepared Statement of Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Delegate in1033      Congress from the District of Columbia, and Ranking Member,1034                  Subcommittee on Highways and Transit1035    I would like to thank Subcommittee Chair Rouzer for holding this1036hearing on our nation's transit systems. Transit is the backbone of1037communities of every size, safely and efficiently connecting people to1038jobs, health care, education, groceries, amenities and loved ones.1039    The story of our nation's transit systems in the post-COVID era is1040a comeback story. Transit systems are steadily recovering from pandemic1041ridership loss.1042    On average, transit systems have regained 84 percent of riders1043since the earliest days of the pandemic, a rebound that is evident1044across every mode. In some systems, that number is even higher.1045    Here in the national capital region, Metro recently surpassed one1046million daily riders--a five-year high. Metro has led the country in1047ridership recovery, with forty-eight consecutive months of ridership1048growth.1049    You don't have to be a transit rider yourself to celebrate these1050gains. Every dollar Congress invests in transit generates five dollars1051in economic returns. Without public transit, the D.C. region would lose1052more than nine billion dollars' worth of economic activity due to1053traffic gridlock, delays in freight shipments and lack of access to1054jobs.1055    Transit is also the safest way to travel. Traveling by transit is105610 times safer than driving.1057    In 2021, Congress delivered the largest transit investment in our1058nation's history through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.1059That law provided $108 billion to upgrade and modernize transit1060systems.1061    In rural and urban communities alike, that law is helping transit1062agencies expand their service areas, purchase newer, greener fleets and1063keep operators safe on the job. For example, Metro received more than1064$100 million to transition to zero-emission buses, which will reduce1065pollution, improve air quality and keep the D.C. region on the move.1066    Whether you are a transit rider or not, transit plays a crucial1067role in our transportation system. Contrary to popular belief, there1068are more rural transit agencies than urban transit agencies.1069    For many, riding transit is a choice. For others, transit may be1070their only option, including if they are in the 10 percent of the adult1071population that does not drive because of disability, cost or personal1072choice. Transit is a lifeline that is safe, affordable and climate1073friendly.1074    I look forward to working with my colleagues to continue this1075Committee's long history of supporting transit in the next surface1076transportation bill.1077    Thank you.10781079    Mr. Rouzer. The gentlelady yields back.1080    I would now like to welcome our witnesses and thank them1081for being here.1082    Mr. Johnson, you have a constituent on the panel. I will1083introduce you to introduce her.1084    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Well, I hate to correct you,1085Mr. Chairman, but I don't have a constituent, I have got a1086friend.1087    Barb Cline, since 1989, has been one of the really great1088transit leaders in South Dakota.1089    And of course, things are different in rural America. You1090all have mentioned that in your opening comments. It is not1091always that easy to just dash off to the doctor's office or to1092the school or the grocery store or to work. And Barb's agency,1093Prairie Hills Transit, which started with 1 van and has grown1094to 60 vehicles that serves a 16,500-square-mile area, it is1095just remarkable.1096    And she has a passion and knowledge, and we are all going1097to learn a lot from her today. My friends, my colleagues,1098buckle up, you are going to get the full Barb Cline today.1099    Mr. Rouzer. I understand, Ms. Cline, your grandson Jackson1100is with you.1101    Ms. Cline. Yes, he is.1102    Mr. Rouzer. Jackson, where are you?1103    Oh, right back there. I see.1104    With that, let me also introduce Mr. Nat Ford, who is1105testifying on behalf of the American Public Transportation1106Association.1107    We have Mr. Matt Booterbaugh--I love that name, by the1108way--who is testifying on behalf of the North American Transit1109Alliance.1110    Mr. Baruch Feigenbaum, who is representing the Reason1111Foundation.1112    And Mr. Greg Regan, representing the Transportation Trades1113Department of the AFL-CIO.1114    I thank each of you for being here today.1115    Now, briefly, I want to take a moment to explain our1116lighting system. Pretty self-explanatory. There are three1117lights you will find in front of you. One is green, it means1118go. Yellow means time is about to run out. And red means wrap1119it up just as quickly as you possibly can.1120    I ask unanimous consent that the witnesses' full statements1121be included in the record.1122    Without objection, so ordered.1123    I ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing1124remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided1125answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in1126writing.1127    Without objection, so ordered.1128    I also unanimous consent that the record remain open for 151129days for any additional comments and information submitted by1130Members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's1131hearing.1132    Without objection, so ordered.1133    As your written testimony has been made part of the record,1134the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks, as1135mentioned previously, to 5 minutes.1136    With that, Mr. Ford, you are recognized for 5 minutes for1137your testimony.11381139   TESTIMONY OF NATHANIEL PHILLIP FORD, Sr., CHIEF EXECUTIVE1140 OFFICER, JACKSONVILLE TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, ON BEHALF OF1141THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ASSOCIATION (APTA); BARBARA1142K. CLINE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PRAIRIE HILLS TRANSIT, ON BEHALF1143OF THE COMMUNITY TRANSPORTATION ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA (CTAA);1144MATTHEW BOOTERBAUGH, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RATP DEV USA, ON1145 BEHALF OF THE NORTH AMERICAN TRANSIT ALLIANCE (NATA); BARUCH1146FEIGENBAUM, SENIOR MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR TRANSPORTATION POLICY,1147 REASON FOUNDATION; AND GREG REGAN, PRESIDENT, TRANSPORTATION1148                TRADES DEPARTMENT, AFL-CIO (TTD)11491150   TESTIMONY OF NATHANIEL PHILLIP FORD, Sr., CHIEF EXECUTIVE1151 OFFICER, JACKSONVILLE TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, ON BEHALF OF1152     THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ASSOCIATION (APTA)11531154    Mr. Ford. Well, thank you, and good morning, Chairman1155Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton, Ranking Member Larsen and1156Chairman Graves, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for1157the opportunity to testify on behalf of the American Public1158Transportation Association, better known as APTA.1159    My name is Nat Ford, and I have the honor of serving as the1160CEO of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority in1161Jacksonville, Florida. We are a multimodal agency that operates1162public transportation in northeast Florida and has the duties1163and responsibilities of an expressway authority.1164    We have delivered on-time and on-budget transportation and1165infrastructure projects worth hundreds of millions of dollars.1166In addition to our road building responsibilities, we operate1167fixed-route bus service, paratransit service for the disabled1168community, and various mobility on-demand services, as well as1169regional services, the St. Johns River Ferry, and a downtown1170automated people mover.1171    The JTA is a long-time member of the APTA association,1172which represents a $79 billion industry that directly employs1173430,000 people and supports millions of private-sector jobs1174across America.1175    As this committee develops the next surface transportation1176authorization bill, we urge you to recognize that public1177transportation creates growth opportunities for businesses of1178all sizes, and it creates good-paying, family-supporting jobs.1179    Transit not only connects workers to jobs and students to1180school and people to healthcare, it is an economic driver for1181the private sector. Seventy-seven percent of Federal public1182transportation investment flows to the American businesses.1183    Transit capital projects support businesses and communities1184across the Nation. Federal funding impacts over 2,000 suppliers1185in 48 States, including Washington, DC, and it also includes1186smaller urban and rural areas where buses, railcars, and their1187parts are actually manufactured.1188    Every dollar invested in public transportation generates $51189in long-term economic benefits. Our industry not only moves1190people, but it helps to drive the economy forward to success.1191    As the recent nominee to lead the Federal Transit1192Administration, Mr. Marc Molinaro, recently said: ``Transit is1193more than a system of buses, ferries, and rails--it's the1194shared circulatory system of our economy. It connects rural1195towns and big cities, creates opportunity, and drives growth.''1196    We call on Congress to continue to invest in transportation1197and infrastructure to ensure that public transit agencies can1198continue to address the $100 billion state-of-good-repair1199backlog and meet the mobility demands of our people across this1200Nation.1201    Moreover, these investments create family-wage jobs and1202help communities grow their economies.1203    Public transportation is also embracing mobility1204innovation. We are ushering in new modes of transportation that1205will improve public transportation and serve as an agent of1206positive growth and investment in our country.1207    Congress should also be forward-thinking, enabling transit1208agencies to continue to be the leaders in this Nation in1209adopting new technologies for our 21st-century transportation1210system.1211    In the wake of the pandemic, public transportation agencies1212have had to redesign our services. We have had to add mobility-1213on-demand options, and we are creating an ecosystem for our1214riders to reach all mobility needs and options that they1215require.1216    Transit agencies are harnessing new smart technologies to1217better serve our customers and enhance safety, such as using1218artificial intelligence to identify potential hazards for1219pedestrian safety and leveraging data to produce a stronger1220business model.1221    In Jacksonville, we have embarked on a transformative plan1222to expand downtown Jacksonville's public transportation service1223by introducing autonomous vehicles into our system we call the1224Ultimate Urban Circulator program.1225    But more importantly, this program started with a BUILD1226grant back in 2018 and now has been leveraged into a1227multimillion-dollar investment by HOLON, which is a subsidiary1228of the BENTELER Corporation, and it is selecting Jacksonville1229to build the first U.S.-produced, ground-up, autonomous1230vehicles in this Nation.1231    This 500,000-square-foot plant will generate an estimated1232839 jobs with $63 million in labor income and $201 million in1233economic output.1234    With that, thank you for the opportunity to testify before1235you, and I look forward to your questions.1236    [Mr. Ford's prepared statement follows:]12371238  Prepared Statement of Nathaniel Phillip Ford, Sr., Chief Executive1239   Officer, Jacksonville Transportation Authority, on behalf of the1240           American Public Transportation Association (APTA)1241                              Introduction1242    Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton, and Members of the1243Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee on Transportation1244and Infrastructure, on behalf of the American Public Transportation1245Association (APTA) and its more than 1,600 public- and private-sector1246member organizations, thank you for the opportunity to testify for this1247very important hearing.1248    My name is Nat Ford, and I am a former Chair of APTA, an1249international association representing the $79 billion public1250transportation industry that directly employs more than 430,000 people1251and supports millions of private-sector jobs.\1\1252---------------------------------------------------------------------------1253    \1\ APTA represents all modes of public transportation and all1254elements of the industry from public agencies to manufacturers. APTA1255members include public transportation systems; planning, design,1256construction, and finance firms; product and service providers;1257academic institutions; state transit associations; and state1258departments of transportation.1259---------------------------------------------------------------------------1260    I also serve as CEO of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority1261(JTA), a multi-modal agency that operates public transportation in1262Duval County and neighboring counties. We also have the duties and1263responsibilities of an expressway authority, carrying out major1264highway, bridgework and roadways infrastructure projects. With each1265project and service, the JTA is one step closer in achieving its1266mission to enhance Northeast Florida's economy, environment, and1267quality of life through mobility solutions.1268    We began JTA's MobilityWorks program in 2015 which included 271269complete streets, transit enhancement projects and upgrades to the1270ferry at a cost totaling $200 million. It was completed two years ahead1271of schedule. This success led the way for an extension of a local1272option gas tax, which will generate an additional $500 million in1273capital projects, with the creation of more jobs and positive economic1274impact.1275    As a multi-modal agency, mobility innovation is key to ensuring1276reliable and safe services to all our customers. We provide fixed1277route; First Coast Flyer, which is our bus rapid transit (BRT) service;1278paratransit with Connexion and Connexion Plus; mobility on demand1279services, such as Go Tuk-In, Beachside Buggies, and ReadiRide zones;1280and regional services to three neighboring counties. In addition, JTA1281operates transit services in both Clay and Nassau Counties, as well as1282the St. Johns River Ferry. We also operate the Skyway, an automated1283elevated people mover that we are transforming into a shared autonomous1284vehicle network called the Ultimate Urban Circulator.1285    On behalf of APTA, I would like to share with the Subcommittee some1286of the issues that are critical to our industry and discuss some of the1287innovations and unprecedented approaches that public transit agencies1288are advancing every day to deliver better, safer, and more cost-1289effective mobility services for Americans. As always, we offer any1290assistance we can provide as an association to help Congress pass a1291surface transportation authorization bill that invests in American jobs1292and supports support the millions of people who rely on public1293transportation and its significant economic benefits each day.1294    Investment in public transportation helps communities of all sizes1295flourish--connecting workers to jobs, students to school, and people to1296healthcare. Private-sector businesses depend on Federal transit funding1297to create jobs in communities across the country, consistent with Buy1298America laws. In fact, 77 percent of Federal public transit investment1299flows to the private sector, and public transportation manufacturing1300relies on more than 2,000 suppliers in 48 States and Washington, DC.1301    Americans continue to demonstrate the need for public1302transportation. Our industry has seen ridership steadily increase after1303falling to 20 percent of 2019 levels in April 2020. Since then, public1304transit ridership has reached more than 80 percent of 2019 levels, and1305it continues to grow. For instance, in 2023, ridership increased 161306percent. In 2024, ridership increased by more than 490 million trips,1307or 7 percent. A growing number of systems have fully recovered and have1308exceeded 2019 levels. These facts demonstrate the tremendous resiliency1309of this industry.1310    And it is important to recognize the enormous scale of our nation's1311public transit ridership. Transit riders took 7.7 billion trips in13122024--an average of 25 million trips each day. Beyond ridership numbers1313and percentages, it is critically important to recognize why people1314take public transit--it creates opportunities. For millions upon1315millions of Americans, accessible, affordable public transportation1316helps families, students, and workers save money and grow the economy.1317According to a recent APTA study, people can save more than $13,0001318each year by using public transit instead of driving.1319                        Building for the Future1320    APTA is sincerely thankful for the historic investments in public1321transportation in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (P.L. 117-132258) (IIJA). The IIJA provides $108.2 billion for public transit over1323five years (FY 2022 through FY 2026).1324    By using IIJA transit and rail funding as a baseline to build from,1325recognizing increased costs due to inflation, and adopting commonsense1326streamlining reforms, Congress can ensure that the next surface1327transportation authorization bill will help address the state-of-good-1328repair backlog, encourage continued ridership growth, have a greater1329economic impact for communities, and provide a greater value for1330taxpayers.1331    Transit agencies across the country are working toward a state of1332good repair, providing economic opportunities to their communities and1333driving innovation. For example:13341335      The Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District1336added 26 miles to double track its South Shore Line. It eliminates 131337grade crossings, adds 14 new weekday trains, and cuts the travel to1338Chicago by 30 minutes. The project, awarded a construction grant1339agreement in 2021, was completed on time and under budget.13401341      Valley Metro also completed its 2021 Northwest Extension1342Phase II light rail project ahead of schedule and under budget. The1343project connects the West Valley to downtown Phoenix and neighboring1344communities and is already averaging 50,000 riders per month since1345opening in January 2024. Phoenix is now working on redeveloping its new1346terminus--a former mall--into multi-family housing, hotels,1347restaurants, and new retail space. Phoenix will soon complete its South1348Central Extension/Downtown Hub corridor to connect the current light1349rail system in downtown Phoenix with other culturally significant1350neighborhoods.13511352      Skagit Transit, in a small Washington State community, is1353moving its operations facility, currently located in a 100-year1354floodplain, to a new facility with clean energy infrastructure that1355will enable a transition to a zero-emission fleet. In addition, the1356facility will help Skagit Transit, as a partner in county emergency1357preparedness operations, support community resiliency during emergency1358events.13591360      The Metro Gold Line in the Minnesota Twin Cities region1361recently opened on time and under budget, the first of three Twin City1362bus rapid transit (BRT) lines that will open in 2025. The 10-mile bus1363rapid transit line connects people to job centers and other1364destinations in St. Paul, Maplewood, Landfall, Oakdale, and Woodbury1365with frequent, all-day service.13661367    APTA urges Congress to build upon the successful investments of the1368IIJA. To make Federal dollars go further (as described in more detail1369below) APTA recommends that Congress:13701371      Conduct a zero-based review of Capital Investment Grants1372(CIG) program requirements to eliminate any requirements that do not1373meet a two-part test: to build good CIG projects that protect the1374taxpayer interest.13751376      Provide flexibility for public transit agencies to1377acquire land prior to National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) review1378completion, on parity with highway projects.13791380      Help address transit workforce needs by eliminating the1381Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's (FMCSA) Commercial1382Driver's License (CDL) under-the-hood testing for bus operators.13831384      Improve drug testing processes and results by urging the1385Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to certify laboratories1386needed to conduct oral fluid drug testing.1387        Investing in Public Transportation Yields Great Benefits1388Creating Jobs, Growing the Economy, and Providing Opportunities1389    Public transportation represents a $79 billion industry that1390directly employs more than 430,000 people and supports millions of1391private-sector jobs. 77 percent of Federal public transit investment1392flows to the private sector through spending on capital projects,1393contracted and other services, fuel, materials, and supplies.1394    For every $1 billion invested in public transportation, nearly139550,000 jobs are created or sustained across the entire economy,1396including in non-transit industries.\2\ For every $1 invested in public1397transportation, approximately $5 in long-term economic return is1398generated.\3\ Investment in public transportation creates jobs in1399communities of all sizes throughout the country, including in smaller1400urban and rural areas where buses, railcars, and their parts are often1401manufactured.1402---------------------------------------------------------------------------1403    \2\ APTA, Economic Impact of Public Transportation Investment--20191404Update (February 2020). Public transportation can also enhance the1405productivity of industries not directly associated with transit, such1406as the technology industry.1407    \3\ Id.14081409    In addition, the public transportation industry provides investment1410opportunities across the country, ranging from manufacturing to design1411and construction, to operations and maintenance, to data management and1412technological innovation. And public transportation agencies rely on1413their private-sector partners to help deliver innovative transit1414projects efficiently.1415    For instance, a Capital Investment Grant (CIG) project in1416California may include thousands of construction jobs onsite, but its1417rolling stock, parts, or materials may come from manufacturers and1418suppliers in Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, or Pennsylvania.14191420                        Bus and Rail Schematics:14211422    Moreover, after a new transit line is constructed and operational,1423there are ongoing, permanent economic growth and development impacts1424enabled by the transportation improvements and associated economic1425productivity gains.1426Addressing State-of-Good-Repair Needs1427    With a Department of Transportation (DOT) estimated state-of-good-1428repair backlog of more than $101 billion, support from all levels of1429government is sorely needed. The recent American Society of Civil1430Engineers (ASCE) Report Card echoes DOT's findings. ASCE gives public1431transit a grade of ``D'', a slight improvement from the last report1432card in 2021. Moreover, ASCE identifies a $152 billion funding gap for1433public transit over the next 10 years.1434    Today, most agencies operate buses and railcars beyond their useful1435lives. Of the 119,000 transit buses and vans, almost one in six are not1436in a state of good repair.\4\ For rail transit vehicles, the average1437fleet age is 24 years. Agencies are using the investments of the1438current authorization law to bring their rolling stock, guideway1439elements, systems, stations, and facilities to a state of good1440repair.\5\1441---------------------------------------------------------------------------1442    \4\ See, U.S. Department of Transportation, Federal Highway1443Administration and Federal Transit Administration, Status of the1444Nation's Highways, Bridges, and Transit: Conditions & Performance1445Report to Congress, 25th Edition (2024), at page ES-13.1446    \5\ Id.1447---------------------------------------------------------------------------1448Traveling Safely to Your Destination1449    For the public transportation industry, safety is a core value--a1450non-negotiable operating principle and promise to our riders and1451workers. The men and women responsible for managing and operating1452public transportation systems are fully committed to the safety of1453their passengers, employees, systems, and the public. As a result,1454traveling by public transportation is 10 times safer for passengers1455than traveling by car, and modest increases in transit ridership can1456cut traffic fatalities by 50 percent.\6\1457---------------------------------------------------------------------------1458    \6\ See APTA, Public Transit Is Key Strategy in Advancing Vision1459Zero, Eliminating Traffic Fatalities (August 2018).1460---------------------------------------------------------------------------1461    Rider-focused investments to improve service, safety, and1462accessibility are why ridership is increasing across the country. To1463address transit safety concerns, many agencies are adopting a layered1464approach, increasing the number of law enforcement personnel and1465supporting them with ``transit ambassadors'', mental health1466professionals, and public awareness campaigns.1467    In Jacksonville, Federal and local policies supporting DOT's Vision1468Zero initiatives align with investments in public transportation to1469create safer, more accessible communities. JTA is developing a transit-1470centered approach to Vision Zero through its Creating Safe Spaces1471Action Plan (CSSAP), which focuses on pedestrian and bicyclist safety1472around public transit assets. In addition, smart traffic signals,1473connected vehicle technology, and AI-based safety monitoring can reduce1474accidents and enhance transit reliability.1475Driving Innovation1476    Public transit is at the forefront of innovation. From hybrid buses1477to light rail systems, public transportation agencies are leveraging1478new technologies to promote clean energy, electric vehicle deployment,1479and fuel efficiency. Currently, 55 percent of transit buses use1480alternative fuels, with 20 percent of all buses utilizing hybrid-1481electric technology, compared to only three percent of U.S. cars and1482Sport Utility Vehicles. Communities that invest in public transit1483reduce the nation's carbon emissions by 63 million metric tons1484annually. Overall, public transportation saves the U.S. six billion1485gallons of gasoline each year. The public transit industry will1486continue to lead the way in adopting new technologies.1487    In addition, public transit agencies are harnessing new1488technologies to better serve our customers. Well-planned public1489transportation reduces congestion, improves accessibility, and1490encourages private-sector investment in infrastructure. Enhancing1491transportation networks can revitalize downtowns and commercial1492corridors, supporting small businesses and increasing local tax1493revenues. Smart city technologies, such as AI-powered traffic1494management and digital fare integration, can improve transit efficiency1495and user experience.1496    In Jacksonville, we are moving forward with a transformative1497project we call the Ultimate Urban Circulator (U\2\C). U\2\C is a1498comprehensive program to modernize the existing Skyway and expand1499downtown Jacksonville's public transportation service by introducing1500shared autonomous vehicles into the system. The U\2\C will provide1501greater connectivity and mobility by expanding the reach of the Skyway1502to at-grade roadways.1503    We are completing an unfinished story when we convert, modernize,1504and repurpose existing infrastructure with the Skyway Conversion. The1505U\2\C program will deliver an estimated 10-mile autonomous1506transportation network into adjacent neighborhoods in a cost-effective1507method that leverages existing infrastructure with agnostic and1508evolving system upgrades.1509    The first phase of the U\2\C, known as the Bay Street Innovation1510Corridor, was spearheaded by a Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage1511Development (BUILD) grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation,1512awarded in 2018. This same program awarded two other autonomous1513vehicles projects that year in other parts of the United States.1514    Thanks to this Federal investment, investment from the Florida1515Department of Transportation, and local funding, the JTA will deploy1516the first autonomous vehicle network for public transportation in June15172025.1518    The benefits have exceeded our expectations, with the U\2\C1519attracting national and international attention that led to HOLON, a1520subsidiary of the BENTELER Group, to select Jacksonville to establish1521its first U.S. production facility for shared autonomous vehicles. This1522project marks Florida's first automotive vehicle manufacturing1523operation and represents a significant economic opportunity for1524Jacksonville and Northeast Florida. Key sectors benefiting from these1525impacts include manufacturing, real estate, healthcare, and1526professional services.1527    We believe that transportation is the great equalizer. JTA will1528continue to adopt innovative technologies, and shared autonomous1529shuttles will provide agile, nimble, reliant, and safe transportation1530throughout our system.1531Providing Rural Access1532    Today, approximately 6,800 organizations provide public1533transportation, and the majority of agencies serve rural areas.1534According to Federal Transit Administration (FTA) data, 1,253 transit1535agencies operate in rural areas and 941 transit agencies operate in1536urbanized areas (i.e., areas with a population of 50,000 or more). In1537addition, there are approximately 4,580 nonprofit public transportation1538providers operating across the nation.1539    In rural areas, especially for seniors and people with1540disabilities, public transportation is a lifeline. Rural residents with1541disabilities rely heavily on public transit, taking approximately 501542percent more public transit trips than those without disabilities.\7\1543Ridership in rural areas is estimated to be 135 million annual trips.1544Public transit is critical for connecting users to needed services,1545including access to medical care for the almost five million U.S.1546veterans living in rural areas and for providing Medicaid recipients1547with non-emergency medical transportation (NEMT) services to mental1548health, substance abuse, chemotherapy, dialysis, and other critical1549chronic and preventive care appointments.1550---------------------------------------------------------------------------1551    \7\ APTA, Public Transportation's Impact on Rural and Small Towns1552(2017).1553---------------------------------------------------------------------------1554Providing More Mobility Choices1555    Public transit investment also helps communities begin to address1556the demand for more mobility choices. CIG funding provides critical1557investments for new and expanded subways, light rail, commuter rail,1558streetcars, and bus rapid transit (BRT), among others. Over the past 151559years, 28 States have received CIG construction grant agreements or are1560in the current pipeline. Projects include BRT projects in Minnesota,1561Nevada, and Pennsylvania; commuter rail projects in Texas and Indiana;1562and heavy and light rail projects in Arizona, California, New York, and1563Utah. Public transportation projects that are funded through the CIG1564program are an essential component of addressing the mobility demands1565of growing communities.1566    Today, 61 projects across the nation are seeking $35 billion of CIG1567funding in FY 2026 and subsequent years.\8\1568---------------------------------------------------------------------------1569    \8\ APTA's Capital Investment Grant Project Pipeline Dashboard1570(March 25, 2025).1571---------------------------------------------------------------------------15721573                     CIG Projects From 2010	Present15741575APTA Regulatory Reform Proposals1576    APTA is committed to working with Congress to advance critical1577public transportation funding and policy provisions in the next Surface1578Transportation Authorization bill. We are engaging our members to1579develop a comprehensive proposal and have already adopted several1580policies that would help advance projects in a timelier and more cost-1581effective way. For instance, enclosed are several regulatory proposals1582that APTA has adopted and that we will be submitting to the Committee1583for its consideration. We stand ready to help to advance these policies1584in the next authorization bill.1585            Zero-based Review of CIG Program1586    Beginning with enactment of the Transportation Equity Act for the158721st Century (TEA 21) (P.L. 105-178) in 1998, both Congress and FTA1588have repeatedly layered additional requirements on the CIG program,1589resulting in a less than clear process. APTA urges both Congress and1590FTA to adopt CIG reforms to strengthen the CIG program, expedite1591approval, and ensure that beneficial projects across the nation are1592delivered in a timely manner. We urge Congress to undertake a zero-1593based review of all CIG statutory requirements in the next1594authorization bill to eliminate any requirements that do not meet a1595two-part test: to build good CIG projects that protect the taxpayer1596interest.1597    In addition, project sponsors applying for both CIG funding and1598Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act (TIFIA) credit1599assistance are receiving contradictory requirements from FTA and the1600DOT Build America Bureau for processing their applications. APTA1601recommends that the Bureau and FTA produce joint guidance for projects1602seeking credit assistance and CIG funding to streamline the application1603and selection process. Congress should require the Build America Bureau1604and Federal Transit Administration to release joint guidance outlining1605a step-by-step process for applicants seeking both TIFIA loan or loan1606guarantees and Capital Investment Grants funding.1607            Real Property Acquisition1608    Public transit agencies face difficulties purchasing real property1609for operations and maintenance facilities because FTA policies restrict1610the purchase of real property where Federal funds will be, or are1611anticipated to be, used for the purchase or development of that1612property. In most cases, transit agencies cannot acquire such real1613property until NEPA processes are completed.\9\ Expanded flexibility1614for early real property acquisition for public transportation projects1615is needed to reduce delays and associated costs of projects and to1616create certainty in property rights with a view toward future use.1617---------------------------------------------------------------------------1618    \9\ On July 11, 2022, FTA sent a Dear Colleague letter to remind1619project sponsors that the purchase of real property outside of existing1620transit corridors cannot proceed until the NEPA process is completed or1621until FTA has either determined that the project is exempt as a1622Categorical Exclusion (CE) (i.e., corridor preservation or there will1623be no substantial changes); issued a decision that there is ``Finding1624of No Significant Impact''; or issued a combined or separate final1625Environmental Impact Statement and or Record of Decision, ultimately1626clearing the project.1627---------------------------------------------------------------------------1628    We urge Congress to add flexibility to FTA's policy on land1629acquisition prior to NEPA by amending 49 U.S.C. Sec.  5323(q) (Corridor1630Preservation) to replace the term ``right-of-way'' with ``real property1631interests''. This proposal would bring FTA's authority into parity with1632the Federal Highway Administration's property acquisition authority,1633thereby expanding the opportunity for broader property acquisition1634prior to the completion of environmental reviews.1635            Eliminate ``Under-the-Hood'' CDL Requirements1636    The public transit industry continues to experience a severe1637shortage of drivers and is struggling to maintain its workforce. APTA1638has identified the FMCSA's CDL under-the-hood testing requirement as a1639significant impediment to hiring bus operators, contributing to the1640nationwide shortage of drivers. This shortage leads to reduced transit1641service, missed trips, and higher costs for public transit agencies.1642    Congress should eliminate the FMSCA CDL under-the-hood testing1643requirement for applicants seeking to operate vehicles in public1644transportation to alleviate the bus operator shortage; reduce costs and1645increase efficiency; and advance opportunity.1646            Certify Labs for Drug Testing1647    Under current drug testing protocols, public transit agencies must1648drug test employees using urine tests. In May 2023, DOT added oral1649fluid drug testing to the existing urine testing procedures. However,1650oral fluid testing cannot be implemented until HHS certifies two1651laboratories to conduct the drug testing. To date, HHS has not1652certified these laboratories. Oral fluid drug testing provides several1653key benefits, including a less invasive collection process, reduced1654risk of tampering, and a better measure of impairment given the shorter1655latency period for detection.1656    APTA encourages Congress to urge HHS to certify laboratories needed1657to conduct oral fluid drug testing.1658                               Conclusion1659    On behalf of APTA, thank you for including us in this important1660hearing. In each of your States, public transportation provides very1661real benefits to your constituents, their communities, and the national1662transportation network. To maintain our position as a global leader,1663our country needs more job creation, a stronger economy, a cleaner1664environment, and more opportunity--and significant, sustained1665investments in public transportation will lead the way.16661667    Mr. Rouzer. I don't think I have ever had a witness that1668was perfectly timed.1669    Ms. Cline.1670    Mr. Ford. Well, transportation, we are supposed to be on1671schedule, sir.1672    [Laughter.]1673    Mr. Rouzer. Great answer.16741675  TESTIMONY OF BARBARA K. CLINE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PRAIRIE1676   HILLS TRANSIT, ON BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY TRANSPORTATION1677                 ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA (CTAA)16781679    Ms. Cline. Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Holmes Norton,1680and members of the House T&I Committee's Highways and Transit1681Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before1682you today as you review the Nation's transit programs and1683policies in advance of reauthorizing the Infrastructure1684Investment and Jobs Act.1685    I am here today both in my role as the executive director1686of Prairie Hills Transit, located in Spearfish, South Dakota,1687and as a board member of the Community Transportation1688Association of America.1689    Prairie Hills Transit serves a 16,500-square-mile area in1690South Dakota. Our operations started with a single van 36 years1691ago. Today, we operate 60 vehicles with a staff of 60.1692    In 2024, we carried 132,000 passengers, representing a1693nearly 5-percent increase from our prepandemic ridership.1694    Prairie Hills Transit has been a member of CTAA since we1695provided that first trip in 1989. CTAA is a national nonprofit1696association providing training, resources, and advocacy for the1697Nation's smaller transit network of more than 1,200 rural,1698small urban, Tribal, nonemergency medical, and specialized1699transit agencies.1700    In addition to providing general public transit in our1701service area to jobs, school, supermarket, and much more,1702Prairie Hills Transit serves assisted living, nursing home, and1703medical facilities. Twelve years ago, the major healthcare1704provider in our region contracted with us for discharge trips,1705returns to home out of the area, and trips between medical1706facilities.1707    In addition to healthcare, veterans are a focus of Prairie1708Hills Transit. We operate a service for veterans living in 511709highly rural counties across South Dakota, Wyoming, and1710Nebraska. Within our service area, Hot Springs, Rapid City, and1711Sturgis all have veteran hospitals and clinics that generate a1712significant demand for our transit service.1713    Last year, we built South Dakota's first propane fueling1714station. We now operate five propane buses and are seeing a $141715savings per vehicle per day, which allows us to serve more1716people more effectively.1717    As a CTAA board member, I am here representing smaller1718transit. Despite smaller teams and budgets, these transit1719systems are highly innovative, deploying the latest1720technologies that improve their efficiencies.1721    Across the United States, rural transit ridership has1722recovered 108 percent of prepandemic numbers, according to the1723most recent data from the National Transit Database. Rural1724transit ridership has increased by nearly 25 percent since17252007, while the share of America's populations living in those1726same areas declined by 3 percent.1727    Smaller transit systems generally rely on Federal1728investment to serve their communities. Continued and adequate1729support of the transit formula programs is essential. Within1730Federal transit discretionary or competitive programs, we need1731set-asides that guarantee levels of participation for smaller1732transit agencies and allow systems like mine to only compete1733with other rural agencies.1734    Coming up with local match is an increasing challenge for1735rural and small city public transit systems. The vast majority1736of Federal transit programs require 20 percent local match.1737Rural and small city transit systems require to match at 501738percent.1739    The solution is standardizing the match rate for rural and1740small urban operating funds at 20 percent. This would not1741increase the Federal spending on this level.1742    A critical way that this committee can assist smaller1743transit is right-sizing the regulatory burden. Like my1744operation back home, CTAA's members typically have small1745administrative staffs that perform a variety of job functions.1746My written testimony provides a number of regulatory relief1747strategies.1748    Smaller transit systems are highly effective and efficient1749providers that coordinate a variety of funding sources and1750contracts into vital mobility.1751    Thank you for allowing us to tell that story today. I look1752forward to questions you might have.1753    [Ms. Cline's prepared statement follows:]17541755  Prepared Statement of Barbara K. Cline, Executive Director, Prairie1756Hills Transit, on behalf of the Community Transportation Association of1757                             America (CTAA)1758    Subcommittee Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Holmes Norton, and1759members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee's1760Highways and Transit Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to appear1761before you today as you review the nation's transit programs and1762policies in advance of reauthorizing the Infrastructure Investment and1763Jobs Act (IIJA). I appear before you today both in my role as the1764Executive Director of Prairie Hills Transit, located in Spearfish,1765S.D., and as a Board Member of the Community Transportation Association1766of America (CTAA).1767    Prairie Hills Transit serves a 16,500 square-mile service area and1768grew from an operation that started with a single van to one today1769comprised of 60 vehicles and 60 employees across western South Dakota.1770Our service area goes from the North Dakota border in the north down to1771the Nebraska in the south. In 2024, we carried 132,000 passengers,1772which represents a nearly 5 percent increase from our pre-pandemic1773ridership.1774    In addition to providing rural public transit in our service area,1775for more than 30 years PHT has been the primary transportation provider1776contracted across our service area to serve assisted living, nursing1777home and medical facilities. Twelve years ago the major healthcare1778provider in our region contracted with PHT for discharge trips from the1779hospital, returns to homes out of the area and for trips between1780medical facilities. At the time they purchased our first bus because we1781didn't have money to purchase one. Through the years the single bus was1782replaced by two ADA vans and then recently with four ADA vans--all1783purchased by Monument Health. Through the quality of our work and our1784focus on customer care, both the largest surgery hospital and another1785large rehabilitation hospital in the urbanized area of Rapid City have1786entered into service contracts with us. (This has precipitated the need1787to build a transit facility in Rapid City housing 4 storage bays,1788office area, and a service/wash bay.) Because of the delays in grant1789awards the building has cost significantly more. Due to the volume of1790requests we have already added another three ADA vans to the four1791purchased by Monument Health.1792    PHT operates a service for veterans who live in highly rural1793counties (Highly rural is any county with a population of seven (7) or1794less people per square mile). We serve six counties in South Dakota and1795have formal agreements with another six counties in Wyoming and with1796Open Plains Transit in Western Nebraska to serve another 39 counties.1797Within our service area, Hot Springs, Rapid City and Sturgis all have1798veteran hospitals and clinics which generate a significant number of1799trips provided by PHT without a subsidy of any type.1800    Last year, we built South Dakota's first propane fueling station.1801We now operate five propane buses and thanks to an excellent1802partnership with our propane provider, we are seeing a $14 savings per1803vehicle per day, which allows us to serve more people more efficiently.1804We've also found the heaters put out much more heat on cold days than1805our gas buses.1806    PHT has been a member of the Community Transportation Association1807of America (CTAA) since we provided our first trips in 1989. CTAA is a1808national nonprofit association of more than 1,200 organizations and1809individuals who believe that mobility is a basic human right. Mobility1810directly impacts the quality of life of people in communities across1811the nation by providing access to work and education, to life-1812sustaining health care and human services programs, to shopping and1813visiting with family and friends. CTAA members are in the business of1814moving people efficiently and cost-effectively.1815                    America's Other Transit Network1816    For many Americans, the image that comes to mind when they think of1817public transportation is that of a crowded urban subway serving one of1818the country's largest cities. Barb Cline is testifying today on behalf1819of the Community Transportation Association of America (CTAA) which1820represents our nation's other transit network. The agency Ms. Cline1821directs--Prairie Hills Transit, headquartered in Spearfish, S.D., is a1822fine example of this other transit network.1823    Transit systems serving the nation's small cities and towns; rural1824and tribal communities; older adults; people with disabilities,1825veterans, non-emergency medical trips comprise this other network that1826often serves in relative obscurity. They use traditional buses, shuttle1827buses, vans, minivans and sedans to take their passengers to work,1828school, medical appointments, shopping, human services and so much1829more. This network has evolved a right-sized scale and approach to the1830communities and passengers they serve, and have deployed technological1831innovations to enhance performance and efficiency; everything from1832autonomous vehicle implementations to microtransit applications and on-1833demand mobility.1834    Here are some key data points that highlight this other network's1835effectiveness:1836      According to the most recent set (2023) of National1837Transit Database (NTD) data, rural transit ridership across the US had1838reached 108 percent of pre-pandemic levels (the comparisons are Sept.18392019 vs. Sept. 2023).18401841      Five of the top ten transit agencies in the country, when1842ranked in terms of ridership per capita, come from small cities. Ames,1843Iowa's CyRide, for example, serving a population of 66,000 (20201844Census), provides 68 trips per capita which ranks third, nationally.18451846      In 2023, 13 rural transit systems reported ridership1847above 1 million, serving areas with less than 50,000 population.1848Notably, the Roaring Fork Transportation Authority in Colorado provided18494.5 million trips in 2023.18501851      America's rural population is declining, but rural1852transit ridership increased 15.6 percent from 2007 to 2019. Rural1853veterans represent 25 percent of the veterans enrolled in the VA health1854care system. In 2023, rural households spend 75 percent more of their1855total household income on gasoline than urban households.18561857      The performance-based Small Transit Intensive Cities1858(STIC) program has seen a 9 percent increase in small city transit1859system participation in the past five years, spotlighting increased1860efficiency and effectiveness of these systems in their communities.18611862    Thanks to increased federal, state and local investment, America's1863other public transportation network is dynamically rising to meet the1864growing and changing needs of its communities and passengers.1865    CTAA recently completed a survey of its 1,200 member organizations1866and individuals, which provides a useful snapshot of this other public1867transportation network. Here are the highlights:1868      The average CTAA member transit system has 61 employees1869(mostly drivers); operates 27 vehicles (mostly small buses and1870minivans); and serves its community with a combination of on-demand1871(majority) and fixed-route operations.18721873      CTAA members report that their top trip destinations are1874(in order): healthcare, employment, social services, retail, and1875education.18761877      Smaller transit fleets and facilities, according to CTAA1878members, are aging. Fifty-seven percent report that half of their1879current fleet of vehicles is past its useful life standard. Further, 441880percent say their facility(ies) are past due or within two years of1881needed a major update.18821883      The nature of rural transit service makes zero-emission1884vehicle technologies very difficult to deploy. For example, battery1885ranges of 90-100 miles do not work in rural America where one-way trips1886lengths can regularly exceed these ranges and where charging1887infrastructure is scarce. CTAA members have been successfully deploying1888low-emission technologies like hybrids, CNG and propane-fueled1889vehicles.1890      What the Other Public Transportation Network Needs in IIJA1891                            Reauthorization1892    Smaller transit systems, generally, rely on federal investment to1893serve their communities. Continued and adequate support of the formula1894programs (Sections 5307, 5310 and 5311) is essential to their ability1895to serve their communities and passengers.1896    Within federal transit discretionary or competitive programs,1897smaller transit agencies need set-asides that guarantee levels of1898participation for smaller transit agencies. Also, these set-asides1899ensure that smaller transit providers are competing with their peers1900(and not major metropolitan areas) for these important discretionary1901funding opportunities. CTAA has seen that set-asides in competitive1902programs increase smaller system participation and assure that these1903funds are more fairly distributed, nationally.1904    Local match is an increasing challenge for rural and small-urban1905public transit systems. As opposed to the vast majority of the federal1906transit program--where a 20 percent local match is typical--operating1907expenses for both rural and small city transit systems match at 501908percent. Coming up with this match is a burden for the leadership of1909smaller systems, particularly in states that choose not to invest1910heavily in transit. One of CTAA members' top priorities in IIJA1911reauthorization is standardizing the match rate for rural and small1912urban operating funding at the same 20 percent where the rest of their1913federal funding matches. It is an ideal way to allow these agencies to1914extend their services at no additional federal cost. The American1915Association of Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) supports1916this important priority.1917                   Right-sizing the Regulatory Burden1918    A critical way that the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee1919can assist smaller transit systems through IIJA reauthorization is,1920broadly, right-sizing the regulatory burden. CTAA's members, typically,1921have quite small administrative staffs. Many rural transit general1922managers, for example, will drive a vehicle when short staffed. It is1923standard among smaller transit systems that administrative staff1924members perform a variety of job functions. At the same time, much of1925the regulatory and data collection efforts promulgated by both Congress1926and the Federal Transit Administration are designed for the nation's1927largest transit operators that have the requisite sized administrative1928staffs to manage these requirements. Scalabilty is often discussed, but1929rarely implemented.1930    CTAA would like the Committee to consider the following regulatory1931relief solutions:1932      FTA's current regulatory regime and its review and1933oversight requirements, including, but not limited to triennial reviews1934and other routine compliance reviews of its grantees, should only be1935applied to those transit agencies directly receiving more than $1001936million in federal financial assistance, or that directly receive more1937than $10 million of FTA funding for any one specific project (not1938including routine awards of formula-based federal transit funds1939directly to the transit agency).19401941      For all other direct recipients of FTA funds, other than1942those who receive transit funding from their state or tribal1943government, their signed attestations on FTA's annual certifications1944and assurances shall serve as evidence of compliance, except when1945indicated otherwise through an FTA-developed, objective process to1946identify grantees at highest risk of non-compliance with applicable1947federal statutory requirements.19481949      Transit agencies receiving federal transit assistance1950through their state government already are expected to comply with1951applicable state-level regulatory requirements, which henceforth shall1952be deemed to be compatible with comparable federal requirements.1953Oversight of states' transit grantees' compliance with these statutory1954and regulatory requirements shall be the responsibility of the state,1955not the federal government, except that FTA may use its state1956management review process to document and assure that states' rules and1957processes are not in conflict with federal requirements.19581959      In cooperation with the states, FTA should review its1960National Transit Database reporting processes as they pertain to1961grantees of state-managed transit grant programs and other1962subrecipients of federal transit assistance, all with the goal of1963implementing a more effective and appropriate means of ``rural'' and1964``reduced'' reporting in time for the 2027 NTD reporting year, if not1965sooner.19661967      FTA should review its agency-specific regulations in1968Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations, identifying how to1969streamline these regulations' burdens on its direct grantees that1970receive less than $100 million in federal financial assistance,1971reporting its findings and progress no later than September 30, 2027,1972and issuing relevant notices of proposed rulemaking no later than1973December 31, 2027.19741975      Every FTA administrative procedure and requirement must1976identify its statutory basis, or else must allow for voluntary1977compliance.19781979      FTA should immediately end the practice of using ``FAQs''1980on its website for issuing regulatory requirements or policy1981directives.19821983      FTA should immediately begin a review of its program1984circulars, and should remove any circulars, or portions of circulars,1985that imply regulatory or other requirements that cannot be linked1986directly to applicable statutes or regulations. Issuance of new1987circulars must include a full 90-day comment period.19881989      When it comes to facility projects, CTAA recommends1990strongly that current FTA NEPA guidelines be made consistent with FHWA1991rules to allow for property acquisition prior to conducting NEPA1992required reviews.1993                    Making it Easier to Buy Vehicles1994    The cost and availability of transit vehicles of all sizes1995continues to be a challenge to CTAA members. The once-robust American1996transit vehicle marketplace is in crisis. CTAA, in consultation with1997its operating, state Department of Transportation, and business partner1998members, recommends the following strategies for IIJA reauthorization.1999      Local Government Purchasing schedules should be allowed.2000The use of these arrangements is encouraged by law (The Common Grant2001Rule), but FTA has proscribed their use by striking reference to them2002in the latest version of its ``Third Party Contracting Guidelines''.2003These schedules allow procurement cooperatives greater flexibility to2004assist small rural transit agencies, non-profits and tribes that do not2005have procurement staff and are unable to join joint procurements in2006buying vehicles from a federally compliant procurement schedule. Local2007Governments who are FTA recipients are end users of the products such2008as rolling stock and bus shelters and have an intimate knowledge of the2009necessary specifications and service requirements which large state2010procurement divisions by nature cannot have.20112012      CTAA and its members fully support Buy America. We2013recommend changing its implementation to allow for one-time Buy America2014vehicle certifications performed by FTA or another entity. Once a2015vehicle is certified to meet Buy America, any transit agency or state2016DOT should be able to purchase that vehicle without needing to do2017another--redundant, costly and inefficient--Buy America certification.20182019      CTAA and its members believe that the best decisions2020about the types of buses deployed in communities are made at the local2021level by agency directors, their Boards and local officials. Dedicated2022bus capital funds are vital to CTAA's members, but these important2023investments must be flexible to allow systems to buy the right rolling2024stock for their operations and not force them into technologies that2025don't work for them.20262027      As CTAA members' vehicles reach the end of their useful2028lives, and there is no remaining federal financial interest in that2029asset, CTAA proposes that the transit agency retain 100 percent of any2030proceeds arising from its sale or disposition, regardless of amount.2031               Common-Sense Solutions to Labor Shortages2032    Even prior to the pandemic, many CTAA member agencies were2033experiencing chronic labor shortages that often impacted their ability2034to fully serve their communities and passengers. The challenges2035attracting and retaining front-line workforce remains a challenge for2036many CTAA members. We recommend the following:2037      CTAA and its members support an exemption to the2038Commercial Driver's License (CDL) to allow State Driver Licensing2039Agencies to waive the ``under the hood'' portion of the pre-trip2040vehicle inspection skills test requirement (currently required under 492041CFR 383.113(a)(1)(i) for public transit. This small change will make a2042big difference in the time and way in which transit agencies on-board2043new drivers.20442045      Many CTAA members use volunteer drivers to serve their2046communities. CTAA recommends increasing the federal reimbursement rate2047for volunteer drivers to match the rate set by the IRS for business2048mileage (70 cents per mile). CTAA has endorsed and actively supported2049Rep. Stauber's Volunteer Driver Tax Appreciation Act of 2024, which2050accomplishes this important change.2051 Helping Smaller Transit Operators Serve the Communities in Emergencies2052    Last year, several CTAA members heroically served their communities2053in Western North Carolina and East Tennessee in the aftermath Hurricane2054Helene. They transported National Guard members and other aid workers,2055they continued to serve their most critical dialysis trips and they2056helped transport needed supplies throughout the region. CTAA would like2057the subcommittee to consider appropriate investment to FTA's Emergency2058Relief Program (Section 5324) to help offset the extraordinary costs of2059smaller transit agencies providing these critical services to their2060community and for lost operating costs, in addition to capital, to be2061eligible for these critical funds.2062                             In Conclusion2063    The nation's other transit network is a highly effective and2064efficient collection of smaller providers that coordinate a variety of2065funding sources and contracts into vital mobility that is focused on2066the needs of their communities and passengers. No two operators are2067alike, because no two service areas are the same.2068    But what is consistent among all of these systems is a commitment2069to serve. CTAA's members have always understood the value of their2070services because they are an active and engaged part of the communities2071that they serve. Thank you for allowing us to tell that story today.20722073    Mr. Rouzer. Thank you, Ms. Cline.2074    Mr. Booterbaugh.20752076TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW BOOTERBAUGH, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RATP2077   DEV USA, ON BEHALF OF THE NORTH AMERICAN TRANSIT ALLIANCE2078                             (NATA)20792080    Mr. Booterbaugh. Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton,2081and members of the Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, on2082behalf of the North American Transit Alliance, NATA, I thank2083you for the opportunity to testify on ``America Builds: A2084Review of Our Nation's Transit Policies and Programs.''2085    My name is Matt Booterbaugh. I am CEO of RATP Dev USA. I am2086also a board member of NATA. NATA represents the six largest2087private transit contractors in the U.S., including RATP Dev,2088Transdev, Keolis, MV Transportation, WeDriveU, and Beacon2089Mobility.2090    Collectively, our members employ over 71,000 people and2091serve more than 700 million riders annually. We operate a2092variety of transit services, including bus, rail, paratransit,2093and microtransit.2094    NATA's mission is to advocate for the role of private2095contractors in providing safe, dependable, and cost-effective2096public transit.2097    More than half of U.S. transit agencies contract out2098services, and our members provide expertise that helps improve2099efficiency, safety, and innovation in transit systems2100nationwide.2101    Private contractors bring unique value to public transit,2102such as leveraging scale for better operations and maintenance2103support, operator training, and technology focuses;2104implementing innovations like alternative-fuel vehicles and2105microtransit; offering competitive bidding that maximizes2106taxpayer value.2107    Since the COVID-19 pandemic, transit ridership has2108recovered to about 77 percent with significant growth in2109evening and weekend services.2110    As Congress works on reauthorizing the public2111transportation program, we urge continued investment in public2112transit which remains essential for many people and helps2113reduce traffic congestion.2114    While the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act increased2115funding for capital expenses, operating expenses are still2116primarily funded by farebox revenue and State and local2117subsidies.2118    NATA members can help close the gap by delivering cost-2119effective services. From micromobility and innovative operator2120recruiting, to maintenance supply chain enhancements, our2121members are pioneering innovative solutions to meet customer2122demand.2123    I would like to highlight just a few examples.2124    RAPT Dev in Durham, North Carolina, restored service to2125prepandemic levels and beyond, well ahead of schedule and2126achieved record ridership in process by refining focus on2127operator recruitment and evolved focus on safety culture.2128    Transdev in Nassau County, New York, improved service2129through new fare systems and launched a new microtransit2130offering called NICE MINI that offsets more expensive big bus2131service while meeting the community's evolving transit needs.2132    Keolis, partnered with Massachusetts Bay Transportation2133Authority, introduced popular $10 weekend fares for those2134riding the Metro, boosting ridership during the weekend as a2135new generation of riders use public transit not just to commute2136to work on typical workdays, but to also spend time enriching2137their lives in the city of Boston on the weekends.2138    And MV Transportation and LADOT in Los Angeles also2139developed a microtransit service with a 97-percent rider2140satisfaction rate at a lower cost than other options.2141    NATA's recommendations are as follows.2142    Transit agencies should annually consider whether2143contracting out services could improve service and reduce2144costs. Before cutting needed services, agencies should2145evaluate, through a formal RFP process, if contracting out can2146maintain service levels at a lower price point.2147    Congress and FTA should consider contracting practices when2148awarding discretionary grants, assessing systems funded under2149the Capital Investment Grant program, the idea being that those2150agencies with an eye on running the most cost-effective and2151efficient services should be given priority on grant awards.2152    Incentives and disincentives outlined in contracts should2153be limited to no more than 1 percent of annual contract value,2154encouraging competition and ensuring contract stability in a2155low-margin industry.2156    Related to actual contracting process, an updated FTA's2157best practices procurement manual to reflect current best2158practices and increase competition to include clearly defined2159scope of work and performance metrics during RFPs is essential.2160    Enabling the ability for negotiations to occur when2161unforeseen things happen and change the scope of a contract,2162extending operations and maintenance contracts to a 6- to 10-2163year base term, rather than the 3- to 5-year base terms that we2164see today, and language that supports bilateral decisioning of2165option extension periods versus the unilateral language that we2166see in contracts today.2167    In conclusion, NATA looks forward to continuing to work2168with the subcommittee as you develop reauthorization2169legislation.2170    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I would2171be happy to answer any questions that the committee may have.2172    [Mr. Booterbaugh's prepared statement follows:]21732174  Prepared Statement of Matthew Booterbaugh, Chief Executive Officer,2175 RATP Dev USA, on behalf of the North American Transit Alliance (NATA)2176                              Introduction2177    Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton, and Members of the2178Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, on behalf of the North American2179Transit Alliance (NATA), thank you for the opportunity to testify on2180``American Builds: A Review of our Nation's Transit Policies''.2181    My name is Matt Booterbaugh, and I am the Chief Executive Officer2182of RATP Dev USA. I joined RATP Dev in 2019 and was named CEO in 2024.2183RATP Dev operates multiple modes of public transportation in the United2184States and around the world, including bus, paratransit, rail, non-2185emergency medical transportation, microtransit, shuttle, and autonomous2186vehicles. I am a member of the board of NATA, and I am appearing before2187this committee in that capacity.2188    NATA is comprised of the six largest private transit contracting2189firms. In addition to RATP Dev, our members include Transdev, Keolis,2190MV Transportation, WeDriveU, and Beacon Mobility. NATA member companies2191operate and maintain paratransit, fixed route, and other transportation2192services on behalf of public transit agencies in the U.S. and Canada2193and several of our companies, including RATP Dev, operate public2194transit systems around the world. Our member companies comprise up to219515 percent of the U.S. public transportation workforce, encompassing2196more than 71,000 employees. NATA members collectively serve over 7002197million riders per year. Eighty-five percent of the NATA companies'2198workforce are represented by labor unions.2199    NATA's mission is to advocate for the essential role private2200contractors play in delivering safe and reliable public transit. Every2201day our members transport millions of people to jobs, school, medical2202centers, retail stores and more. The services we provide have a major2203positive impact on economic development and the quality of life in the2204communities we serve. NATA members also are members of the American2205Public Transportation Association (APTA).2206    The private sector has a long history of operating public transit2207services under contract to city and county transit agencies. More than2208half of the agencies in the U.S. contract with the private sector to2209operate all or a portion of their transit service. Our members operate2210bus rail and paratransit service in large and small cities and rural2211areas throughout the country.2212    Our companies bring our global expertise to the public transit2213agencies we serve, providing them with the benefits of our unmatched2214scale and reach, including:2215      The ability to leverage support services, training2216programs and costs (including in safety, maintenance and HR) across2217multiple contracts;2218      Investments in technology and innovation to manage2219employees, improve safety and drive innovation;2220      Experience across multiple markets with key industry2221changes, including alternative fuel vehicles, microtransit models and2222software platforms; and2223      Volume discounts on parts and faster delivery times due2224to larger volumes22252226    Our companies also provide the added benefit of competition. When2227multiple private-sector entities compete for transit contracts,2228taxpayers are assured of maximum value for every dollar spent.2229Challenging Key Performance Indicators (KPIs), which are part of every2230contract, ensure riders receive world class service.2231    Transit ridership across the country has recovered about 77 percent2232on average since the COVID-19 Pandemic with bus service recovering 782233percent. Most significant growth in transit ridership occurred between22342022 and 2023, with the growth trend continuing in 2024. While some2235passengers have changed their travel patterns and no longer commute to2236a downtown office five days a week, more people are using transit2237throughout the day, in the evenings and on weekends.2238    As the Subcommittee begins the process of reauthorizing the public2239transportation program, we urge Congress to continue to invest in2240public transportation as it is the only transportation option for many2241people and relieves traffic congestion on our roadways. Public2242transportation also enhances economic development by providing access2243to jobs for employees.2244    Recognizing that Congress increased funding for public2245transportation in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, that2246funding was largely for capital expenses. Transit agencies must rely on2247farebox revenues and state and local subsidies to fund their operating2248expenses. Our companies can help transit agencies close the gap in2249operating shortfalls by delivering services that meet customer demand2250at a cost-effective price. From micromobility, to autonomous shuttles,2251to greater adaptation of alternative fuel vehicles such as hydrogen and2252compressed natural gas (CNG), to new and expanded rail and bus rapid2253transit, to changing schedules to better adapt to a workforce that no2254longer adheres to a 9 to 5 workday, NATA member companies are sharing2255our experiences and recommendations to enable transit agencies to2256deliver transit services in a way that best serves the traveling public2257in their respective communities, is cost effective and provides good2258salaries, benefits, and job opportunities for our valued workforce. In2259many cases we save money by centralizing overhead costs.2260    Today, I would like to share with the Subcommittee some examples of2261how NATA members have partnered with our transit agency customers to2262deliver service that meets the needs of their community at reduced2263costs.2264    The business case for fixed route service is challenging in2265suburban areas with lower population density. To address the issue of2266buses that are empty and service that does not take passengers where2267they need to go, NATA members are partnering with transit agencies to2268deliver microtransit service in smaller vehicles, which eliminates the2269overall operational cost of running 40 foot buses on routes where they2270are not justified based on the productivity rates. Smaller transit2271vehicles are generally less expensive to operate. As demand increases2272for micro transit service, NATA member companies can help agencies find2273the right balance of fixed route and microtransit.2274    In 2023, RATP Dev began working with Durham, North Carolina's2275GoDurham transit service to transition from a management contract to a2276full operations contract. At the same time, the City of Durham set2277ambitious goals to restore service to pre-pandemic levels by 2024. RATP2278Dev exceeded expectations, successfully restoring 100% of pre-pandemic2279service levels ahead of schedule in early 2024 and implementing2280multiple service expansions. As a result, GoDurham achieved the highest2281monthly ridership in its history in October 2024. This success was2282driven by innovative solutions RATP Dev introduced in partnership with2283the city, including new strategies for recruitment, enhanced community2284engagement, and improved system safety performance (62% reduction in2285preventable accidents).2286    Transdev has been operating the NICE Bus contract in Nassau County,2287New York since 2012. NICE Bus is a critical transit system connecting2288people throughout Nassau County and providing connections to the NY2289MTA's Long Island Railroad for connections into New York City.2290Transdev's responsibilities not only include the operations and2291maintenance of the contract, but also encompass FTA compliance,2292marketing, HR, finance, procurement, ADA eligibility certification,2293reservations, customer service, scheduling and dispatching. Transdev2294continues to bring additional value by regularly adding to the positive2295passenger experience through restructuring routes to increase service2296frequency, incorporating a contactless fare payment system, adding new2297passenger applications and recently launching NICE MINI, the area's2298newest microtransit service.2299    In partnership with Keolis, the Massachusetts Bay Transportation2300Authority (MBTA) introduced $10 weekend fares for the MBTA Commuter2301Rail network. These fares allow for unlimited travel across the entire2302network all weekend and have proven popular. Along with new regional2303rail style schedules that feature trains at regular all-day intervals,2304these new fares have contributed to weekend ridership growth above and2305beyond pre-pandemic figures.2306    And, in 2017, MV Transportation (``MV'') and the Los Angeles2307Department of Transportation launched a microtransit project in West2308Los Angeles to enhance mobility options in the area. Anchored to a2309MetroLink rail station, the service provided on-demand rides with a2310goal to create a cost-efficient, productive, and passenger-oriented2311service instead of adding a fixed route. MV and LADOT jointly developed2312the service and established 700 virtual stops steadily growing to 1,6002313trips per month prior to the pandemic. Since then, LADOT, its2314technology partner and MV have continued to operate and grow the2315service with a 97% rider satisfaction rate at a cost lower than2316competing TNC service.2317    Just last year, Beacon Mobility saw significantly improved customer2318satisfaction levels that resulted in a 25% increase in passengers in2319less than 18 months--going from 20% below pre-COVID levels to 5%--in an2320urban area where it used innovation by implementing multiple modes of2321transportation to create more customer-specific solutions in a market2322where the use of traditional service methods was compromised by driver2323shortages.2324                         NATA's Recommendations2325    While transit agencies contract out a large portion of their2326paratransit service, they only contract out less than a third of fixed2327route service based on total number of systems or less than a quarter2328when comparing total potential revenue. This contrasts sharply with2329other countries that contract out almost all public transportation2330service. While contracting out may not be the best approach for every2331transit agency and every type of service, many transit agencies are2332reluctant to even consider contracting out because they have always2333operated service in-house with their own workforce. For these reasons,2334we recommend that Congress and the Federal Transit Administration (FTA)2335take steps to encourage transit agencies to consider whether2336contracting out is in the best interest of the agency and the riders.2337We recommend that Congress consider including the following policies in2338the reauthorization legislation:23392340    (1)  Transit agencies should consider whether to contract out all2341or a portion of their service at least annually, including various2342factors such as whether contracting out could lead to improved service2343delivery and cost efficiencies. Congress or FTA should include specific2344factors transit agencies should consider in making this analysis and2345FTA should review the analysis during its triennial review of each2346agency.23472348    (2)  Before cutting service, transit agencies should consider2349whether contracting out would enable the transit agency to continue to2350provide the service. To aid in the analysis, transit agencies should2351consider whether to solicit proposals to evaluate whether contracting2352out would enable it to continue service. FTA should review this2353analysis during its triennial review. Transit agencies do not save as2354much money as one might think by cutting service or mothballing2355equipment. Agencies tend to favor cutting weekend service, which is2356recovering at the strongest rate in many cities, but still need to keep2357and train drivers and mechanics. Buses still need to be maintained.2358Said another way: the amount of services cut is not proportional to the2359savings a transit agency realizes. Therefore, there is no downside to2360considering contracting out as an alternative.23612362    (3)  DOT and FTA should consider whether a transit agency contracts2363out as a factor in awarding discretionary grants, focusing on whether2364and how a transit agency proposes to contract out to operate service2365that will benefit from a capital project.23662367    (4)  FTA should consider whether a transit agency will contract out2368as a factor in assessing a transit agency's ability to operate a fixed2369guideway system funded under the Capital Investment Grant (CIG)2370program.23712372    (5)  Congress should limit liquidated damages and award incentives2373to no more than one percent of the annual contract value for transit2374operations and maintenance contracts. This will give transit agencies2375and contractors certainty around price impact in what is today a very2376competitive, low financial margin business and allow contractors to2377offer the best value to the agency. Transit agencies would remain able2378to terminate contracts for default in the event of a contract breach.23792380    (6)  We also urge Congress to ask FTA to update its ``Best2381Practices Procurement and Lessons Learned Manual'', which it has not2382done since 2016. NATA has shared its recommendations with FTA. While2383many transit agencies already follow the practices we are proposing, by2384incorporating our recommendations in the Manual, more proposers are2385likely to respond to solicitations and transit agencies are more likely2386to receive the best value from proposers. I am going to summarize our2387recommendations:23882389        a.  Transit agencies should clearly define the scope of work2390and performance metrics in the RFP, including expected costs to be2391borne by the contractor. For example, it would be very beneficial for2392bidders to know upfront the details of current Collective Bargaining2393Agreements (CBA), run cuts, performance history and liquidated damages2394history. This knowledge would allow bidders to ask more informed2395questions and seek clarifications and exceptions. Transit agencies also2396should allow sufficient time for proposers to develop high quality2397responses.23982399        b.  Transit agencies should account for the unpredictability2400and changing nature of public transportation by providing opportunities2401to negotiate changes based on unforeseen circumstances, including labor2402disputes, significant increases in costs and in service demand, to2403ensure that the recipient can attain the best value and offer public2404transportation to meet the needs of the community over the life of the2405contract.24062407        c.  Operations and maintenance contracts should be longer in2408length since it typically can take between 6 to 10 years for a2409contractor to recoup their initial investment in a contract.24102411        d.  To address upfront investment risk, transit agencies may2412want to consider paying start-up costs during the mobilization period2413(amortized through annual rates), and/or paying the unamortized value2414of assets and other tangible property used in the contract.24152416        e.  Transit agencies should make the exercise of an option to2417extend the contract term bilateral versus unilateral. Providing greater2418flexibility regarding negotiating option terms should result in2419contractors offering the most competitive prices.24202421        f.  Transit agencies should ensure liquidated damages are not2422punitive and bear a reasonable relationship to the impact a failure to2423meet a key performance indicator has on the transit agency and riders.24242425        g.  Transit agencies should include a provision in operations2426and maintenance contracts requiring the contractor in the event of a2427new procurement to provide information to the recipient regarding the2428number of employees who are performing services under the contract and2429the wage rates, benefits, and job classifications of those employees to2430enable the agency to share this information with other proposers. This2431will enable proposers to develop proposals that are appropriately2432priced to manage risk and provide best value to the recipient.2433                               Conclusion2434    In closing, NATA members look forward to continuing to work with2435the Subcommittee as it develops reauthorization legislation. Thank you2436for the opportunity to appear before the Subcommittee today. I would be2437pleased to respond to any questions you may have.24382439    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Feigenbaum.24402441 TESTIMONY OF BARUCH FEIGENBAUM, SENIOR MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR2442            TRANSPORTATION POLICY, REASON FOUNDATION24432444    Mr. Feigenbaum. Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton, and2445fellow Members, my name is Baruch Feigenbaum. I am the senior2446managing director for transportation policy at Reason2447Foundation, a nonprofit think tank with offices in Los Angeles2448and here in DC.2449    I am a graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology with2450degrees in public policy and transportation planning with a2451concentration in engineering.2452    I have been studying transportation since my undergraduate2453capstone on freeway congestion.2454    I worked here on Capitol Hill for Representative Lynn2455Westmoreland of Georgia, who some of you may remember, fondly2456or otherwise.2457    With Reason, I have worked with more than 20 States, as2458well as the Federal Government, to implement transportation2459policy and funding reform, and I currently serve on three2460National Academy of Sciences committees--Managed Lanes,2461Intelligent Transportation Systems, and--most relevant to2462today--Bus Transit Systems.2463    Transit systems operate across the country from New York2464City to Cheyenne, Wyoming. They use different vehicles, have2465different ridership profiles, and serve vastly different2466communities. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, but I want2467to highlight some trends that apply to most systems and then2468suggest some possible solutions.2469    COVID-19 dealt a serious blow to the transit industry. Five2470years later, transit agencies are facing at least five major2471problems. The most serious problem remains crime. While some2472may feel perception of crime is worse than the actual problem2473itself, all it takes is one incident for some riders to never2474use the system again.2475    Los Angeles Metro provides an example. Between 2020 and24762023, crime on its system increased 55 percent. After creating2477its own police force in a concerted effort to curb fare2478evasion, overall crime continued to increase, although violent2479crime did decrease slightly. It still remains at 2,0572480incidents per year. Just in the first 6 months of 2024, last2481year, a rider was shot on a train platform, another was shot on2482a bus, one was stabbed on a bus, another was attacked with a2483wrench. Another rider was stabbed inside an elevator. A bus was2484hijacked. A busdriver was stabbed in the chest. A train rider2485was shot dead. An altercation on a bus spread into the street2486near the transit station, leading to multiple stabbings.2487    Ridership has been hard hit. While a few transit agencies2488in areas with fast-growing populations have recovered, transit2489use in most regions is down anywhere from about 20 percent to2490as much as 60 percent compared to 2019. And 2019 was far from2491the high water mark for passengers. APTA's ``2022 Public2492Transportation Fact Book'' shows transit ridership has declined2493approximately 20 percent across the country between 2014 and24942019.2495    There are several reasons why ridership levels have2496declined. I mentioned crime. Another is the increase in2497people's ability to work from home. A third is convenience.2498During the pandemic, many workers switched to driving and found2499it faster and more enjoyable, and they have been hesitant to2500switch back from driving, carpooling, or vanpooling.2501    As a result, the farebox recovery rate, the percentage that2502riders' fares pay of operating costs, has slipped from 20 to 602503percent, to 5 to 40 percent. That means taxpayers are now2504subsidizing the majority of the operating costs for every2505system in the country.2506    Given these high costs with limited ridership, it helps to2507examine who we are subsidizing. There are two types of transit2508riders: choice and dependent. Choice riders have access to a2509vehicle. These riders tend to like living near stations but2510tend to use transit less frequently. They also tend to ride2511rail far more than bus. Most of the decline in transit2512ridership has come from choice riders.2513    Dependent riders do not have access to a vehicle and tend2514to ride transit more frequently. They tend to ride bus more2515than rail and tend to have lower income. While dependent riders2516traditionally lived in the urban core of metro areas, they also2517now live in suburban, exurban, and rural areas in the U.S.2518    Part of the cost escalation is the proliferation of new2519light rail lines. A newer technology, bus rapid transit, is2520one-third to one-ninth cheaper, and many metro areas are2521adopting it.2522    For operating and maintenance costs, agencies often wait2523too long to complete needed maintenance. I would just point to2524some of the problems that WMATA here in the region has had,2525including a fire that led to a tragic loss of life. Obviously2526we want to fix that.2527    So given these challenges, what should we be doing?2528    First, focus on the core customers: transit-dependent2529riders. They need transit and they tend to use it much more2530than choice riders.2531    Right-size the type of transit system being used. Transit-2532dependent customers use bus more than rail. In urban areas,2533focus on expanding your bus network, make sure it is set up in2534a grid design, not a radial design, operate schedules on a2535regular basis, and focus on areas of extreme density. Look at2536on-demand options in suburban agencies.2537    Second, encourage agencies to focus on transit operations2538and not capital. The share of Federal funding for capital2539costs, in my opinion, should be reduced from 80 percent to 502540percent.2541    Focus on generating additional new revenue, where possible,2542from advertising, and deploy more officers to transit systems.2543    Thanks for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to answer2544any and all questions either here or for the record.2545    [Mr. Feigenbaum's prepared statement follows:]25462547 Prepared Statement of Baruch Feigenbaum, Senior Managing Director for2548                Transportation Policy, Reason Foundation2549    Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member Norton, and fellow Members:2550    My name is Baruch Feigenbaum. I am the Senior Managing Director for2551Transportation Policy at Reason Foundation, a non-profit think tank2552with offices in Los Angeles and Washington. I am a graduate of the2553Georgia Institute of Technology with degrees in public policy and2554transportation planning with a concentration in engineering.2555                    My Credentials on Today's Topic2556    I have been studying transportation since my undergraduate capstone2557on freeway congestion. My master's thesis studied induced demand in2558growing areas and potential solutions. While in school, I wrote a2559special report for Cobb County, GA on the development of a vanpool2560system. With Reason, I have worked with more than 20 states to2561implement transportation policy and funding reform. I currently serve2562on three National Academy of Sciences Transportation Research Board2563Committees: Managed Lanes, Intelligent Transportation Systems, and--2564most relevant to my testimony today--Bus Transit Systems.2565                         Overview of Testimony2566    Transit systems operate across the country from New York City to2567Cheyenne, Wyoming. They use different vehicles, have different2568ridership profiles, and serve vastly different communities. There is2569not a one-size-fits-all solution, but I want to highlight some trends2570that apply to most systems and then suggest some possible solutions.2571    COVID-19 dealt a serious blow to the transit industry. Five years2572later, transit agencies are facing at least five major problems. The2573most serious problem is crime. While some may feel perception of crime2574is worse than the actual problem itself, all it takes is one incident2575for some riders to never use the system again. Riders will return after2576an agency corrects other problems, like headways or lighting.2577    Los Angeles Metro provides a good example. Between 2020 and 2023,2578crime on its system increased 55%. After creating its own police force2579and a concerted effort to curb fare evasion, overall crime continued to2580increase--although violent crimes did decrease by 8%, but remains2581stubbornly high at 2,057 incidents per year. Just in the first six2582months in 2024, a rider was shot on a train platform, another was shot2583on a bus, one was stabbed on a bus, another was attacked with a wrench,2584another rider was stabbed inside an elevator, a bus was hijacked, a bus2585driver was stabbed in the chest, a train rider was shot dead, and an2586altercation on a bus spread into the street near the transit station2587leading to multiple stabbings. Certainly, this type of activity will2588not attract riders.2589    Ridership has been hard hit. While a few transit agencies in areas2590with fast-growing populations have recovered, transit use in most2591regions is down anywhere from 20-60% compared to 2019. And 2019 was far2592from the high-water mark for passengers. APTA's 2022 Public2593Transportation Fact Book shows transit ridership had declined2594approximately 20% across the country between 2014 and 2019. As a2595result, some public transit agencies have seen a ridership decline of2596approximately 80% in 11 years.2597    There are several reasons why ridership levels have declined. One2598is concern about crime. A second is the increase in people's ability to2599work at home. A third is convenience; many workers switched to driving2600during the pandemic and found it faster and more enjoyable. Even as2601traffic congestion worsened, many of these former riders chose to2602drive, carpool, or vanpool.2603    As a result, the farebox recovery rate--the percentage that rider's2604fares pay of operating costs--has slipped from 20-60% to 5-40%,2605depending on the system. That means taxpayers are now subsidizing the2606majority of the operating costs for almost every system in the country.2607Compared with other modes, transit is highly subsidized. Highways are2608almost self-sustaining, although there have been increasing transfers2609from general revenue recently. Commercial aviation is almost self-2610sustaining as well. Freight rail is nearly completely self-sustaining.2611Working from home requires no subsidies at all, although it is not a2612feasible option for many.2613    Given these high costs with limited ridership, it helps to examine2614who we are subsidizing. There are two types of transit riders: choice2615and dependent. Choice riders have access to a vehicle. These riders2616tend to like living near stations but tend to use transit less2617frequently. They also tend to ride rail far more than bus. Most of the2618decline in transit ridership has come from choice riders. Dependent2619riders do not have access to a vehicle and tend to ride transit more2620frequently. They tend to ride bus more than rail, and tend to have2621lower incomes. While dependent riders traditionally lived in the urban2622cores of metro areas, they now also live in suburban, exurban, and2623rural areas of the U.S.2624    Costs have increased substantially. For capital costs, there are2625several reasons. One reason is that agencies continue to outfit2626vehicles with modern technologies such as Wi-Fi that increase costs.2627Another is that many agencies continue to chase white elephant capital2628projects that don't increase ridership but are built for political2629reasons. But the greatest is the high costs to build transit in this2630country. As the Marron Institute noted, it costs 20 times as much to2631build a kilometer of rail in New York as in Seoul. This is due to three2632reasons: station costs, which are higher due to boring techniques,2633procurement costs that do not privatize risk, and labor, which is about263450% of the hard costs in unionized states compared to 25% in Turkey,2635Italy, and Sweden.2636    As noted, part of the cost escalation is the proliferation of new2637light-rail lines. A newer technology--bus rapid transit (BRT)--is one-2638third to one-ninth cheaper for roughly the same service. BRT is growing2639across the country, but many regions that cannot support light-rail2640service still choose light rail.2641    For operating and maintenance costs, often agencies wait too long2642to complete needed maintenance, resulting in some of the problems we've2643seen with the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA)2644the last decade. In one incident, the train caught fire, causing tragic2645loss of life. But delaying maintenance leads to higher costs, than if2646maintenance had been performed on a schedule.2647    Other agencies don't take fare evasion seriously. While fares may2648only cover 20% of an agency's costs, that 20% is nontrivial in agency2649budgets.2650    Given these challenges what should agencies be doing? Clearly, the2651same old approach is not going to work in a very new world.26522653      First, focus on your core customers: transit-dependent2654riders. These riders need transit and they tend to use it much more2655than choice riders. They are located all over the country--in urban,2656suburban, and rural areas. And no matter where they are located, some2657type of transit is the difference between them getting to a job or them2658being on government assistance programs. While I'm not a fan of2659extensive government welfare systems, subsidizing this type of transit2660user could save taxpayers money in the end.26612662       Right-size the type of transit service that is being used.2663Transit dependent customers use bus more than rail. In urban areas,2664focus on expanding your bus network. Make sure it is set up in a grid-2665design, not a radial-design. Operate service on a regular schedule, 182666hours a day, seven days a week. Do not build rail lines unless they are2667in corridors with extremely high density. In suburban areas, a mix of2668bus and on-demand options including microtransit, vanpools, employer2669shuttles, and ride-hail vehicles work best. In rural areas, limited bus2670service in towns and microtransit and ride-hail service everywhere else2671is the best option.26722673      Second, encourage agencies to focus on transit operations2674instead of new capital projects. Currently, the federal government2675incentivizes transit agencies to build systems that they do not have2676money to operate. Many systems have spent money building light rail2677systems for transit choice riders and gone over budget, resulting in2678them discontinuing bus lines for transit dependent riders, lowering2679ridership across the system. The share of federal funding for capital2680costs should be reduced from 80% to 50%. Operating and maintaining2681systems should be prioritized. If agencies want to build new capacity2682for fixed guideway (heavy rail, light rail, and some bus rapid transit)2683they should prioritize local funding.26842685      Third, focus on lowering costs and generating additional2686revenue. Adapt some of the reforms of other transit agencies across the2687world. Contract out service. Studies have shown that contracted service2688can cost up to 30% less and provide better service quality to riders.2689Contracting is not the best option in every situation, but it should be2690explored for all new routes.26912692       Find secondary funding sources such as advertising by wrapping2693buses and placing more ads in rail cars. Use more transit-oriented2694development for new and infill rail and BRT stations. Lease property to2695ride-hailing companies and scooter sharing companies to operate.26962697      Fourth, deploy more officers to transit systems,2698prosecute criminals, and improve the station experience by increasing2699lighting and adding higher fare gates.27002701    Thanks for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to answer any and2702all questions, either here or for the record.27032704    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Regan.27052706   TESTIMONY OF GREG REGAN, PRESIDENT, TRANSPORTATION TRADES2707                   DEPARTMENT, AFL-CIO (TTD)27082709    Mr. Regan. Good morning, Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member2710Norton, and members of the subcommittee. On behalf of the2711Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO and our 37 affiliated2712unions, I thank you for this opportunity.2713    As America's largest transportation labor federation, TTD2714proudly represents the majority of public transportation2715workers in this country. Nobody knows the challenges and2716opportunities in this industry better than the frontline2717workers who keep it moving every single day.2718    As Congress prepares to craft the next surface2719reauthorization, it faces a fundamental choice: Continue2720treating workers as an afterthought, or recognize them as2721essential partners in building a transit system worthy of2722America's future.2723    The upcoming surface bill must address the scourge of2724violent assaults on transit workers. For over a decade,2725transportation labor unions have sounded the alarm about the2726epidemic of assaults on transit workers of all kinds.2727Busdrivers, subway operators, and commuter rail workers have2728all experienced it.2729    The number of assault-related injuries in U.S. public2730transit rose by 232 percent in the last 10 years.2731    In December, ATU member Shawn Yim, a Seattle busdriver, was2732beaten and then murdered by a passenger who escalated a dispute2733over an open window.2734    In February, a bus in Madison, Wisconsin, crashed during2735its route, after a passenger's relentless pushing and shoving2736of the operator.2737    We have made some headway with our allies in Congress, but2738much work remains to be done. Specifically, transit operators2739need physical barriers that fully enclose their workstation to2740protect them, especially from unwanted entry of violent2741persons, dangerous fluids, or hurled objects.2742    Congress must provide for such infrastructure and apply its2743oversight authority to encourage the Federal Transit2744Administration to finally promulgate a rule establishing2745vehicle safety standards designed to mitigate the threat of2746assaults.2747    As far as workforce development, to ensure a strong transit2748workforce for the future, we must also ensure employees receive2749adequate training and upskilling. We urge Congress to build on2750existing transit workforce development measures in any surface2751bill.2752    For example, the Low or No Emission Bus Grant Program in2753the infrastructure law is a great program that requires 52754percent of funds be used for workforce development.2755    Now that this program has been put to the test, we see that2756more resources are needed, and we support raising that set-2757aside 10 percent.2758    Congress must also codify the Transit Workforce Center,2759ensure that it is funded so that transit systems across the2760country and their employees have high-quality curricula for2761training their workers.2762    Congress not only has the power to shape the transit2763workforce of the future, it also has a central role to play in2764shaping the future of automation in transit. When drafting the2765upcoming surface bill, Congress must prioritize public safety2766by including a clear and enforceable Federal framework for2767autonomous vehicles.2768    Any framework must, one, require certified operators on2769board; two, ensure any agency receiving Federal funds submits a2770comprehensive workforce development plan. And this should2771ensure that workers are not replaced but retrained so that2772these technologies, if they one day prove themselves safe, that2773the workers have the ability to upskill and be ready to move2774these systems forward.2775    This is especially urgent as some AV deployments have moved2776forward with temporary waivers or exemptions from core transit2777safety rules, which is an unacceptable trend. FTA already has a2778statutory safety mandate. It must use it to ensure that public2779dollars fund public goods, not unsafe, unregulated2780alternatives.2781    Any surface reauthorization bill must also address the2782fiscal cliffs that many transit agencies across the country are2783facing. After ridership fell to 20 percent of prepandemic2784levels during the COVID-19 crisis, Congress rightfully stepped2785in and provided operational support to keep the doors open.2786This helped essential workers get to their essential jobs and2787retained operational capacity for when our systems fully2788recovered after the pandemic.2789    Now ridership has recovered about 85 percent of its 20192790levels, and that is worth celebrating. But recovered ridership2791alone won't be enough to protect this public good.2792    Congress must amend Federal funding programs to restore the2793flexibility that would allow transit systems to keep their2794service running, improve reliability, and address this public2795safety crisis.2796    This involves opening Federal funds up for operations use2797instead of keeping the current restriction on capital projects.2798Giving agencies better access to operational support would2799empower them to make much-needed safety investments, like2800installing physical barriers to protect the operator2801workstation, expanding the presence of law enforcement, and2802other physical improvements like more effective cameras and2803better fare gates.2804    We are confident that the upcoming surface bill is an2805opportunity to improve safety and service across our transit2806systems, large or small.2807    I look forward to working with each of you to address the2808transit worker assault crisis, operational funding issues,2809workforce development needs, autonomous technology deployment,2810and more.2811    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.2812    [Mr. Regan's prepared statement follows:]28132814  Prepared Statement of Greg Regan, President, Transportation Trades2815                       Department, AFL-CIO (TTD)2816    On behalf of the Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO (TTD),2817and our 37 affiliated unions, I thank Chairman Rouzer, Ranking Member2818Norton, and Members of the Subcommittee on Highways and Transit for2819inviting me to testify before the Subcommittee today.2820    Our nation's public transit infrastructure stands at a pivotal2821moment that will define its future for generations. While we've made2822significant investments in physical assets, we have systematically2823neglected the most essential component of any transit system: the2824workers who make it function. Today, these frontline professionals face2825an unprecedented convergence of threats--from physical assaults that2826have risen 152% in less than a decade, to destabilizing fiscal cliffs2827that threaten service reliability, to a technological revolution being2828deployed without adequate safety frameworks, to an administration2829openly hostile to their right to organize. Each challenge targets a2830different aspect of transit workers' ability to deliver the service2831Americans depend on.2832    What links these seemingly disparate issues is a dangerous shift2833away from viewing public transportation as a public good. When2834operators are attacked without consequence, when funding prioritizes2835capital projects while neglecting sustainable operations, when2836autonomous vehicles are deployed without human oversight, and when2837contracted services replace union jobs with gig work--we're witnessing2838the same fundamental problem in different forms. Private interests and2839short-term thinking are systematically undermining transit systems2840designed to serve the public equitably and reliably. The push to2841privatize benefits, socialize costs, and minimize the role of workers2842comes from the same ideological playbook, whether it's deployed by2843Silicon Valley entrepreneurs promising technological salvation or2844politicians seeking to weaken labor protections in the name of2845efficiency.2846    The members of TTD's affiliated unions aren't just employees--2847they're guardians of a public trust. They're not opposed to innovation2848or fiscal responsibility, but they recognize that genuine progress must2849include, not exclude, the workforce that makes transit possible. As2850Congress prepares to craft the next surface transportation2851reauthorization, it faces a fundamental choice: continue treating2852workers as an afterthought--mere inputs to be optimized away--or2853recognize them as essential partners in building a transit system2854worthy of America's future. The testimony I present today makes an2855unequivocal case for the latter, offering concrete policies that2856protect workers while enhancing service for the traveling public--2857because these goals are fundamentally inseparable.2858 The Human Cost of Transit Violence: Protecting Workers and Passengers2859    In rural counties, suburban neighborhoods, and urban centers alike,2860transit provides essential mobility that powers local economies and2861creates pathways to opportunity. Yet the dedicated professionals who2862operate these systems face unprecedented challenges. Every day, transit2863operators across America face the threat of violence simply for doing2864their jobs. In Seattle this January, bus driver Shawn Yim was murdered2865by a passenger after a dispute over an open window escalated to2866needless violence. A Madison, WI woman endangered herself and her2867fellow passengers when her pushing and shoving of the driver caused the2868entire bus to crash just a few weeks ago. In Los Angeles, a series of2869violent attacks against bus drivers prompted Metro to take emergency2870action in 2024 to install protective barriers across its entire 2,000+2871bus fleet. These aren't isolated incidents--they represent a systemic2872crisis in transit worker safety that directly threatens the public2873transportation system all Americans rely on.2874    Alarmingly, many perpetrators are able to flee from the scene of2875this crime, and prosecutors are therefore unable to stop them, or even2876ban them from future use of public transportation service. Therefore,2877we must work proactively to mitigate transit operators' exposure. It's2878well past time that we redesign the bus operator workstation, and we2879implore this Committee to get to work on legislation that would do just2880that.2881    For well over a decade, transportation labor advocates have sounded2882the alarm to federal policymakers over this epidemic of reprehensible2883assaults on public transit workers including bus operators, subway2884operators, and commuter rail workers. Data collected through the2885National Transit Database indicates an astonishing rise in the number2886of assault-related injuries on public transit in the U.S., a documented2887increase of 232% from 2014 through 2024, and a tripling of events2888resulting in fatality or injury requiring medical transport between28892008 and 2022. TTD applauds the IIJA's requirement effective since 20232890forcing transit agencies to report all assaults, not just ones that2891resulted in a fatality or an ambulance transport. Behind these2892statistics are real people--professionals who have been stabbed, shot,2893struck with objects, burned with hot coffee, doused with bodily fluids,2894and sexually assaulted while serving the public. When transit operators2895are attacked, everyone's safety is compromised--passengers,2896pedestrians, and other road users all face immediate danger.2897    Transit operator unions successfully fought for the inclusion of2898language to address the transit worker safety crisis in the Fixing2899America's Surface Transportation (FAST) Act of 2015. This language2900required the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) to publish a Notice2901of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that established minimum safety standards2902to protect operators from assault. FTA was specifically required to2903review and assess the need for bus safety standards, practices, and2904protocols as they relate to bus design with the goal of protecting bus2905operators from assault to inform the NPRM. To date, no rule has been2906implemented, despite repeated calls from labor unions and Congress to2907do so. This Committee must finish the job by mandating minimum vehicle2908design safety standards for transit vehicles.2909    Fortunately, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA)2910provided the opportunity for another bite at the apple, and we are2911pleased to see the first fruits of that labor come to pass recently2912from the Federal Transit Administration. Among the most significant2913actions is a final rule requiring transit agencies to establish joint2914labor-management Safety Committees as part of their Public2915Transportation Agency Safety Plans (PTASP). These committees are tasked2916with conducting safety risk assessments and developing strategies to2917mitigate risks associated with transit worker assaults.2918    Last fall, the Federal Transit Administration built upon the2919foundation of the PTASP rule when it published its first-ever General2920Directive 24:1; Required Actions Regarding Assaults on Transit Workers,2921bringing real teeth to the provisions labor fought for in the IIJA.2922Every agency that is subject to PTASP is now required to perform2923several actions addressing safety in their systems or risk a potential2924loss of federal funding. The General Directive now requires agencies to2925conduct risk assessments of assaults on their transit workers using the2926Safety Management System processes outlined in their Agency Safety2927Plans; identify strategies to mitigate risk and improve transit worker2928safety; comply with PTASP requirements to involve the joint labor-2929management Safety Committee when identifying risk mitigation2930strategies; and promptly provide information to FTA on the risk level2931identified in its system, how it is mitigating that risk, and how it is2932monitoring that risk. FTA's analysis of the first data set stemming2933from this General Directive noted that its findings could support the2934development of ``federal minimum safety standards'' for bus design.2935This kind of policy assessment informed by workers and their advocates2936on the ground is exactly what unions have been fighting for.2937    We thank the more than 200 members of Congress--including Democrats2938and Republicans on this Committee and current FTA nominee Marc2939Molinaro--who co-sponsored the legislation ultimately included in the2940IIJA and later pressed the FTA to take action. While we applaud this2941progress, much work remains to be done.2942    Although meaningful efforts are underway across many transit2943systems to separate out the risky task of fare collection, provide de-2944escalation training to transit operators, and address systemic causes2945of violent outbursts on public transportation, our members are in2946serious need of physical barriers that fully enclose the operator's2947workstation, protecting them from unruly passengers. Such barriers must2948prevent the unwanted entry of persons, fluids, and objects; and they2949must also provide for positive airflow, which better protects operators2950from exposure to viruses and other airborne pathogens. Given their2951truly essential work and the lessons learned from the COVID-192952pandemic, this should be a given.2953    We call on FTA to promulgate a rule requiring strong minimum safety2954standards for public transit vehicles. We look forward to working with2955members of the committee to ensure FTA acts quickly to provide improved2956transit safety to workers and passengers.29572958Congress must ensure long-term financial stability for public2959transportation29602961    This Spring marks five years since the beginning of the COVID-192962pandemic, and unfortunately, public transit systems are still bearing2963the scars from this challenging time. After falling to 20% of pre-2964pandemic levels, ridership has continued in a steady climb, recovering2965to 85% of pre-pandemic levels by March 1, 2025 \1\.2966---------------------------------------------------------------------------2967    \1\ https://transitapp.com/APTA2968---------------------------------------------------------------------------2969    Although bus ridership has rebounded faster, commuter rail2970ridership is recovering more gradually around the country with some2971notable success in Boston's MBTA, which has nearly recovered all of its2972pre-pandemic ridership. Many other commuter rail systems across the2973country are experiencing year-on-year increases to their ridership2974levels and examining changes in their strategies for boosting ridership2975and revenues. Several states are also stepping up to the plate,2976providing additional transit funding to address the fiscal cliff, but2977they still need the federal government to provide additional funding.2978    With various large employers and the federal government2979implementing Return to Office mandates, we can reasonably expect2980ridership to continue to rise. Despite this positive indication of the2981traveling public's regard for the value of public transportation,2982transit agencies across the country are facing a potentially2983devastating fiscal cliff that if unaddressed could wind back their2984progress and hamstring their ability to address other needs within2985their systems, like serious mitigation of assaults on transit2986operators.2987    Given the upcoming surface transportation reauthorization, this2988Congress has an important opportunity to address federal policy flaws2989that the COVID-19 pandemic exposed, like the prioritizing of capital2990investment over operating expense support, which in turn incentivizes2991transit agencies to direct their revenues to matching federal capital2992investments (more federal dollars are available to match capital2993expenses and they match at higher rates than operating expenses) rather2994than making urgently needed improvements to their systems. This skewed2995financial strategy is misguided, and not effective in improving transit2996systems holistically. The associated bureaucratic requirements that2997large urban agencies maintain two sets of accounts for their two2998separate sets of expenses is needlessly onerous as well.2999    The consequent operational funding shortfalls lead to reduced3000service frequency, increased fares, and a diminished ability to meet3001the mobility needs of their communities. This misalignment of federal3002support and incentives ultimately leads us to many of the challenges3003public transit systems face today.3004    It's especially worth noting that the federal prohibition on3005funding transit operations is also fueling public safety crises in many3006transit systems. Policing, monitoring security cameras, installing3007physical barriers that prevent assaults, and many other vital3008components of a secure environment all must be paid for exclusively out3009of local funds. TTD also supports ensuring that federal funding is3010eligible to be spent on transit ambassadors, personnel that are3011empowered to supply fare enforcement and provide important monitoring3012ability as crime and safety issues develop. Considering that the3013presence of uniformed law enforcement personnel is the most effective3014strategy for reducing violence in public transit, the federal3015restriction against operations funding essentially ties one arm behind3016our agencies' backs. As persistent concerns about violence in our3017transit systems continues to slow ridership recovery, ending this3018arbitrary ban on operations funding would immediately raise both the3019level of safety in the systems, as well as fare box revenue as riders3020regain confidence in these systems.3021    We learned a valuable lesson about the benefits of funding3022flexibility during the COVID-19 pandemic when Congress temporarily3023allowed agencies to use all federal formula funds--not just emergency3024funds--awarded from 2020 to 2022 for operations. A boon to our nation's3025public transportation systems, this flexibility ensured that essential3026workers in public transit were able to continue doing their jobs and3027delivering service during the pandemic, in turn allowing their3028passengers to continue doing their essential work and providing3029valuable service to our communities and our economy. Now, years later,3030federal transportation funding policies put us right back where we3031started.3032    Public transit systems provide widespread benefits that transcend3033local boundaries and fundamentally support national economic,3034environmental, and social goals. Congress must not treat public3035transportation as a solely local issue, as effective transit can have a3036multiplier effect on economic productivity and growth. Not to mention,3037they are the absolute lifeline to school, work, places of worship, and3038medical care for citizens without the funds or ability to own a car.3039Transit systems that have the long term viability and federal support3040to absorb unexpected shocks and challenges like the COVID-19 pandemic3041are as invaluable to our national economic interests as they are to the3042social fabric of the communities they serve. Congress must treat public3043transit as the critical component of our national infrastructure that3044it is.3045    That is why transportation labor has long supported a reversal of3046the status quo, restoring the federal government's critical role in3047supporting sustainable and reliable public transportation service by3048providing transit agencies with new, dedicated funding and flexibility3049to use portions of their capital budgets for operating costs.3050Fortunately, there are leaders in Congress who understand this and have3051introduced a legislative solution addressing just that. Subcommittee3052member Hank Johnson, introduced H.R. 7039, the Stronger Communities3053Through Better Transit Act, last Congress, which would significantly3054enhance public transit service nationwide by providing $20 billion per3055year for four years for operations funding. This would enable transit3056agencies to increase service frequency, expand service areas, and3057extend operating hours, thus improving accountability and convenience3058for passengers. The model provided in this bill directly addresses the3059operational shortfalls and skewed incentives created by our current3060federal funding framework. Transportation labor also applauds Senators3061Chris Van Hollen and John Fetterman for their similar legislation, the3062Moving Transit Forward Act of 2024. TTD and our affiliates very much3063look forward to working with Congress to move these bills forward and3064ensure the long-term success and sustainability of our public transit3065systems.3066    Transit labor implores the Subcommittee to build on transit3067workforce development measures in any surface transportation3068reauthorization legislation as well. Since the labor-supported broader3069adoption of battery electric buses, the bus mechanic job has evolved to3070be more of a technician role, now including new skills like electric3071motor repair, computer literacy, diagnostic troubleshooting, and3072competency with select sophisticated software programs. On the3073operations side, new skills are needed as well to bring drivers and3074depot staff up to speed on managing electric buses. The IIJA3075successfully addressed this challenge by stipulating that 5% of Low or3076No (Lo-No) Emission Bus Competitive grant funds must be used by transit3077systems to fund workforce development. Now that this program has been3078put to the test, labor unions report that more resources are needed,3079and we support raising the workforce development set-aside to 10% of3080the grant. It's also important that Congress work to officially3081recognize the Transit Workforce Center (TWC) in Title 49 USC and ensure3082adequate funding so that transit systems across the country have high-3083quality curricula for training their workers.30843085Eroding transit labor protections is not a viable solution for3086improving transit service or addressing budget shortfalls30873088    Strong labor protections are not a barrier to effective public3089transportation--they are essential to it. For over 50 years, transit3090labor protections have ensured that federal investments in transit3091systems do not come at the expense of the workers who operate,3092maintain, and power them. These protections uphold the basic principle3093that public dollars should strengthen communities, not erode the wages,3094rights, or working conditions of the very people delivering public3095services.3096    Attempts to scapegoat transit labor protections as the cause of3097budget challenges or inefficiencies are both misleading and deeply3098cynical. They present a false choice between protecting workers and3099improving service--when, in fact, the two go hand in hand. Stable,3100well-supported workforces are the foundation of safe, reliable, and3101resilient transit systems.3102    Far from obstructing progress, these protections have supported it.3103Reports from the Government Accountability Office \2\ and others have3104shown that transit labor protections have had minimal impact on costs3105or the adoption of new technologies. Instead, it has fostered stronger3106labor-management relationships, reduced conflict, and provided a3107framework for negotiating necessary change. Transit agencies that3108invest in their workforce--not just in hardware--are better positioned3109to deliver consistent, high-quality service to the public.3110---------------------------------------------------------------------------3111    \2\ https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-02-78.pdf3112---------------------------------------------------------------------------3113    And most importantly, union transit workers aren't just doing a3114job--they're building careers in public service. Whether it's a bus3115operator, station agent, mechanic, or dispatcher, these are skilled3116professionals who take pride in the work they do and the communities3117they serve. Because they have a long-term stake in the system, they3118become some of our most trusted sources of insight--raising red flags3119about safety issues, identifying inefficiencies, and offering practical3120solutions that only come from lived experience. Their institutional3121knowledge and daily presence on the front lines make them invaluable3122partners in improving service, maintaining public trust, and ensuring3123that transit systems operate safely and effectively.3124    At TTD, we believe the federal government has a responsibility to3125ensure its investments lift standards--not lower them. That principle3126applies across every mode of transportation and to every worker who3127keeps our systems running.3128    Efforts to overturn these protections under the guise of improving3129service by reducing labor costs are misguided and detract from the3130substantive policy discussions necessary to ensure the long-term3131success of this industry. It is imperative that Congress rejects any3132attempts to erode these vital protections based on outdated arguments3133that are grounded in a distaste for labor unions rather than sound3134policy and common sense. Instead, we should uphold the principles that3135have long supported a fair and equitable transit workforce.3136    Transit operator jobs have long been a pathway to the middle class3137for hard-working and public-service oriented professionals who love to3138interact with and serve their communities while they earn an honest3139living that can sustain themselves and their families. Transit labor3140protections are an essential part of how the profession came to be3141known this way, and are integral to the continued success of this3142profession as well.31433144IIJA wins lead to promising opportunities in surface transportation3145reauthorization31463147    This Congress will be an exciting one for transportation policy, as3148Members, stakeholders, and transportation policy experts go back to the3149drawing board to craft the next surface transportation reauthorization.3150Before doing so, I want to take a look back at all that was3151accomplished for our nation's transit policies and programs through the3152IIJA.3153    Prior to the passage of the IIJA, TTD and our affiliated unions had3154called for transportation infrastructure investments of the scale that3155this legislation delivered for decades. We would be remiss if we did3156not applaud President Biden and the leaders in Congress who put3157partisanship aside and showed Americans that we can all still work3158together. I hope that together we can accomplish a similar feat, in the3159same bipartisan fashion, with this next surface reauthorization.3160    The efforts of transportation labor advocates and partners in3161Congress secured provisions in the IIJA that now statutorily require3162FTA to collect accurate data on transit workforce assaults, reform its3163PTASP process to include valuable worker voices and incorporate3164measures to reduce the risk of assault in every transit system, and to3165update its national safety plan to address the risk of assault and3166other public health concerns. The IIJA also ensured that major new3167investments in zero emission transit were paired with workforce3168training policies to ensure both the incumbent and future workforce3169have the necessary skills to maintain complex electrical equipment. We3170hope that this approach will serve as a model for the responsible3171deployment of other technological changes in transit systems in the3172future. Beyond the bounds of transit service, the IIJA made financial3173investments in transportation infrastructure that are reflective of the3174fact that efficient movement of people and goods across America3175requires a seamless, multimodal network. The IIJA ensured the expansion3176of this network was done so in a way that upholds high-road wages and3177labor standards for those that lay track, pour concrete, reinforce3178bridges, and install electrical equipment. It also ensured that as many3179materials and rolling stock acquisitions as possible were made in3180America with its Buy America provisions. TTD will always work to ensure3181that the power of the federal purse never works to undermine workers in3182their own communities.3183    These IIJA accomplishments give Congress much to build on going3184forward, although much still remains to be done. TTD and its affiliates3185call for a surface transportation reauthorization that provides for the3186widespread retrofitting of buses to include physical barriers that3187protect drivers from bodily harm, whether it strikes in the form of a3188fist, bodily fluid, or physical object. We call for reauthorization3189legislation that seriously addresses funding challenges for transit3190agencies by providing funding flexibility and operating assistance. We3191also call on Congress to ensure that qualified, certified, operators be3192present on all vehicles used for public transportation, including3193vehicles that claim autonomous driving capabilities. The federal3194government must ensure that any new technologies onboard public3195transportation equipment meet existing safety and operational3196standards.31973198Deployment of AV technology31993200    The deployment of automated vehicle (AV) technology in public3201transportation--absent a clear, enforceable federal framework--poses a3202significant risk not only to public safety but to the workforce that3203keeps our transit systems running. Without federal guardrails, we are3204witnessing a growing patchwork of state regulations, pilot projects,3205and private vendor practices that threaten to undermine labor3206protections, reduce service quality, and endanger passengers and3207workers alike. We've already seen examples of AV shuttles deployed with3208no human onboard, operated by third-party contractors with little or no3209training. This is not innovation--it's deregulation.3210    Transit labor has never been anti-technology. What we oppose is a3211model of automation that treats workers as disposable, bypasses3212established safety protocols, and turns public transportation into a3213live experiment conducted at the expense of working people,3214pedestrians, road users, and some of the most vulnerable populations3215these companies claim will benefit but who unwittingly have become3216guinea pigs in service to testing unproven tech in real time. We3217strongly support policies that regulate AV deployment in transit by3218requiring certified operators to be onboard with the ability to assume3219control when necessary. At a minimum, any agency receiving federal3220funds for automated vehicles should be required to submit a3221comprehensive workforce development plan--ensuring that frontline3222transit workers are not replaced, but retrained, upskilled, and3223meaningfully integrated into the evolving transit ecosystem should3224these technologies one day prove themselves safe to operate.3225    Congress has a central role to play in shaping the future of3226automation in transit. It is not enough to passively monitor this3227technology's emergence--a level of oversight that the National Highway3228Traffic Safety Administration is abjectly failing to provide, despite3229urgent calls from nearly 30 transportation unions and even the National3230Transportation Safety Board to take action. What we need is a3231proactive, worker-centered regulatory framework with enforceable3232standards, and that will require this committee's commitment to safety3233and to the workers back home in your districts. That means directing3234the Federal Transit Administration to use its authority to issue3235binding rules governing how AVs are deployed in public transit systems.3236A federal safety framework cannot be optional or advisory. Without3237clear direction from this Committee and the full Congress, we risk3238letting technology outpace the rules meant to keep riders and workers3239safe.3240    We must require the Federal Transit Administration to establish3241binding minimum safety standards for the deployment of automated3242transit vehicles, and it must do so now--before experimentation becomes3243normalization. These standards must include requirements for operator3244presence, physical workstation protections, and full compliance with3245all existing drug and alcohol testing rules. Safety cannot be left to3246the discretion of vendors or negotiated piecemeal in local pilot3247programs. This is especially urgent as some AV deployments have moved3248forward with temporary waivers or exemptions from core transit safety3249rules--an unacceptable trend that Congress must halt. FTA already has a3250statutory safety mandate; it must use it to ensure that public dollars3251fund public goods--not unsafe, unregulated alternatives.3252    Equally important is the need to prevent the misuse of federal3253transit funding to support unregulated, third-party-operated3254microtransit services that undermine public transit systems and the3255union workforce that operates them. We align ourselves with our3256affiliated unions, who are unified in calling for strict federal limits3257on these services: they must start or end at existing transit hubs;3258they must fully comply with all FTA safety and labor requirements,3259including drug and alcohol testing; and they must not duplicate3260existing fixed-route service or accrue deadhead miles on the public3261dime. Federal dollars must never be used to subsidize the erosion of3262worker protections or the outsourcing of core transit functions to the3263lowest bidder. If microtransit is to play a role in the future of3264mobility, it must supplement--not replace--public transit, and it must3265be held to the same standards. Anything less risks turning public3266transportation into a fragmented, unaccountable gig economy.32673268Congress should use its oversight authority to ensure a fully3269functioning FTA32703271    As America's largest transportation labor federation representing3272thousands of federal workers, we must take a moment to comment on the3273new administration's brazen and unconsidered actions towards the3274federal workforce.3275    To be absolutely clear: Forcing the Federal Transit Administration3276to abruptly scale back its staff--especially amid an unprecedented3277volume of active, high-stakes projects--would be deeply damaging to the3278public interest. FTA's workforce includes experienced professionals who3279don't just administer grant programs; they serve as long-term stewards3280of public investment. Like unionized transit workers on the frontlines,3281these career staff are deeply invested in the success, safety, and3282integrity of the systems they support. They know how to spot problems3283before they derail a project, how to navigate complex local conditions,3284and how to help agencies design programs that are equitable, efficient,3285and durable. Gutting that institutional capacity risks leaving billions3286in critical infrastructure funding stranded and hundreds of transit3287projects stuck in limbo--not because communities failed to plan, but3288because Washington chose to pull expertise off the field at the exact3289moment it was needed most.3290    Should recent trends regarding the White House's approach to3291federal workers' collective bargaining rights be extended to FTA3292employees, I urge you to keep in mind that federal employees already3293abide by strict collective bargaining terms, and forfeit many of the3294rights that private sector employees maintain, including wage and3295benefit negotiations and the right to strike. The Trump3296Administration's recent actions in gutting multiple federal labor3297relations institutions leave these workers powerless to employer3298retaliation and unfair labor practices. Without the career public3299servants and their collective expertise built from years of experience3300in office to implement your legislation and directions, this3301Subcommittee's authority becomes effectively neutered.3302    TTD believes in the value each of you bring to this Subcommittee,3303we believe in the value of bipartisan and bicameral work in Congress,3304we believe in the good intentions and expertise of your staff, and we3305believe in the checks and balances Congress and the Executive Branch3306impose on one another. Just as we implore you to believe in the3307insights of frontline workers as the eyes and ears of our3308transportation system, we insist that you believe in the value and3309expertise of federal employees, and in their rights to bargain3310collectively.33113312    Mr. Rouzer. Thank you very much.3313    And I thank all of you for your testimony. Very, very good.3314    Mr. Ford, I got a little ahead of myself and did not3315recognize, I believe, you have your wife here.3316    Mr. Ford. Yes.3317    Mr. Rouzer. If you want to recognize her real quickly.3318    Mr. Ford. My wife, Janet Walker Ford, has joined me today3319to support me in my testimony.3320    Janet.3321    Mr. Rouzer. Well, they say behind every great man is a3322really, really great woman.3323    Mr. Ford. Yes, definitely.3324    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Ford, I am going to start with you on the3325questions.3326    As I mentioned in my opening remarks, FTA received a3327historic level of investment from IIJA and supplemental COVID3328funding, yet ridership numbers remain below prepandemic levels.3329    The FTA also reports the injury rate per 100 million3330passengers has jumped 294 percent, and fatalities 300 percent,3331from 2008 to 2022.3332    So what suggestions does APTA have to address crime and3333improve overall ridership numbers on transit systems, with the3334understanding, of course, that we don't have an unlimited3335checkbook?3336    Mr. Ford. Yes. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman.3337    And let me start by saying to the entire committee, one3338crime or one incident harming an employee or any of our riders3339is one too many.3340    And my peers around the country, both on the private-sector3341side as well as on the public agency side, we are doing all3342that we can, using technology to identify risks, in terms of3343our operations, where potential accidents may occur or3344incidents may occur as it relates to crime, using artificial3345intelligence and a whole host of other tools to dissuade crime3346on our systems.3347    We want to try and put this in a bit of perspective in3348terms of safety overall. Public transportation is one of the3349safest modes in carrying people, in moving people in our3350community. In fact, compared to actual cars operating on our3351roads and our streets, we are 10 times safer. However, in terms3352of our systems, a crime, unfortunately, is one too many.3353    Having said that, I just want to keep things in3354perspective. Using transit saves lives by getting people off3355the street and getting them on our public transportation3356systems. We do believe that Federal funding is critical in3357that.3358    You may have heard that in terms of our state of good3359repair, the backlog of state of good repair does move into the3360realm of creating unsafe systems and operations. And so3361continuing Federal funding at the highest levels that we could3362have it provided will allow us to be safer systems.3363    We have also looked at data related to the communities we3364operate in. As we watch crime throughout our communities, our3365systems, in many cases, are the place of refuge for a lot of3366the citizens in our communities. They see our stations and our3367terminals as places of safety and security. We have deployments3368of officers, as well as security guards, and then also3369hardening of our vehicles with barriers for the bus operators3370or the train operator to continue to do their jobs in a safe3371manner.3372    So I think I just want to end with what I started with. We3373take crime very seriously. We are working with local3374jurisdictions in our communities, police departments, sheriff's3375offices to ensure the highest levels of safety on our system.3376    Are we 100 percent there? There is still always more work3377to do until we get to zero crimes and incidents on our systems.3378    Mr. Rouzer. Ms. Cline, can you elaborate on the types of3379services Prairie Hills Transit offers and how you are able to3380operate on a balanced budget, understanding, of course, that3381rural areas have challenges that you may not have in other3382areas, obviously?3383    Ms. Cline. Thank you for the question.3384    We provide all types of service up until we get to3385emergency, such as ambulance service. But we are providing all3386the way from transportation for school-age children,3387transportation for individuals with disabilities.3388    The majority of our vehicles are lift-equipped or ramp-3389equipped, and the fact that we are able to provide a full3390service is very important to all the communities that we serve.3391    Now, let me remind you that the majority of our service3392area can be seven people or less per square mile. So the fact3393that we are able to still serve those individuals living in3394highly rural areas--or sometimes we call them ``frontier''--is3395optimal to allowing those individuals to continue living in3396their own homes, being taxpaying members, productive citizens3397in their own communities.3398    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Booterbaugh, really quickly, contracted3399services can improve efficiency and decrease overall costs. Can3400you talk about that a little bit in the last 20 seconds?3401    Mr. Booterbaugh. Sure. I will try to be quick.3402    So we really view it as an opportunity by strengthening3403transit, by combining public oversight with private innovation3404and flexibility.3405    So our focus is really to look at systems, work with3406agencies in collaboration to figure out how we can build more3407effective, efficient systems through operator training,3408innovation, and just our scale across the globe.3409    Mr. Rouzer. My time has expired.3410    Ms. Norton.3411    Ms. Norton. Mr. Regan, bus operator safety is a key issue3412for your members and needs to be a priority for this committee3413in the next surface transportation reauthorization bill.3414    What recommendations do you have for making sure frontline3415workers are protected on the job?3416    Mr. Regan. Thank you, Ranking Member.3417    This has become an increasing problem. And what we have3418recommended certainly is to go beyond what was already achieved3419by Congress in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.3420    We would like to see a full requirement of physical3421barriers so we can redesign the workspace for bus operators and3422transit operators to protect them from outside threats, be it3423somebody trying to force their way in, someone throwing3424something at the operator.3425    But redesigning that workspace--and that is what it is for3426these transit operators, is their office--and we need to have a3427direction, a directive and Federal leadership to ensure that we3428are designing these spaces in a way that they are safe but also3429that the passengers that they are driving are safe as well.3430    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Regan.3431    Mr. Ford and Mr. Regan, riding transit is 10 times safer3432than driving a car. However, the Trump administration has3433threatened to withhold funds for major transit systems, citing3434purported concerns about safety.3435    What would withholding Federal funds mean for transit3436safety?3437    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.3438    In terms of Federal funding, it is very important that we3439look at the overall funding picture for public transportation.3440The work that we do and the funding we receive to maintain our3441systems in a state of good repair, it inures to us having safe3442systems from an operational standpoint, the reliability of our3443equipment, the maintenance of our equipment, ensuring that our3444systems, our infrastructure is kept in a state of good repair.3445    I would also say that we rely on our Federal partners in3446terms of that funding because then there is additional funding3447that could be utilized to create security for our operators and3448our maintenance personnel, frontline personnel who are actually3449working in our facilities.3450    So funding is critical in terms of the overall safety of3451our systems.3452    Mr. Regan. I agree entirely with what Mr. Ford said. This3453is a critical issue. And if we are trying--if we are going to3454make progress on improving safety, we need to have these3455investments in our systems.3456    Whether it be having more uniformed police available, just3457the visual of having people, security personnel there in the3458systems, helps a great deal, but also improving the3459infrastructure of the system itself.3460    There can be better gate technology, which we are seeing3461here in Washington, DC, for example. There could be designing3462the facilities on the buses themselves, ensuring that we have3463better camera coverage, as well.3464    Those are all things that require funding and stuff that3465the Federal Government needs to take a leadership role in to3466make sure that we have it across the needs of different3467agencies.3468    Ms. Norton. Mr. Ford, your testimony noted that3469Jacksonville is developing a transit-centered approach to3470Vision Zero which focuses on improving bicycles and pedestrian3471safety around public transit facilities.3472    How is Jacksonville improving safety across modes?3473    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.3474    We believe in a holistic transportation system approach,3475and so as we have done work with our current transit system--3476and back in 2015, we did a total restructuring of our route3477structure that had been in place for 30 years.3478    When we did that, we identified gaps--sidewalk gaps, bike3479lane gaps--that actually hindered the utilization of our3480transit system. So we have adopted a complete streets process3481that when we do a road project or a transit project, we look at3482accessibility for all modes, whether you are in a car, riding3483public transit, biking, or walking.3484    And we have a holistic approach to infrastructure, which3485has improved the safety in our community for all users of our3486roadways.3487    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.3488    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Webster.3489    Mr. Webster of Florida. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you3490for having this committee meeting. It is timely.3491    Mr. Ford, I have long been concerned about improving the3492transportation for seniors and for people with disabilities. In3493my district is The Villages, where all your dreams come true,3494and they hosted a pilot program 2 years ago in conjunction with3495the Florida Department of Transportation that deployed a shared3496autonomous shuttle. And it was used in conjunction with a3497healthcare facility there, and it worked out great.3498    But are autonomous vehicles you deploy in Jacksonville3499accessible by seniors and those with disabilities?3500    Mr. Ford. Yes. Thank you for the question.3501    Yes, they are accessible for senior citizens in our3502community, and in fact, we used our Senior and Disabled3503Advisory Committee to help us design the vehicles that will be3504deployed on our project this summer.3505    And so, we sought their input very early on, with our3506contractors, to develop a fully accessible public transit3507autonomous vehicle shuttle.3508    Mr. Webster of Florida. In your experience, how are you3509ensuring that accessibility is a key feature as we continue to3510develop this technology?3511    Mr. Ford. Yes. As we developed this technology, we3512recognize that for senior citizens, as well as the disabled3513community, having those special needs, we drive our design of3514these systems to support those individuals first, which then3515clearly will provide accessibility for the rest of our3516community.3517    So we design with the most challenging accessibility3518population in our community, which is seniors, children,3519disabled members of our community. That is part of our initial3520design, and they were there at the very forefront of the U\2\C3521program.3522    Mr. Webster of Florida. Fantastic.3523    Ms. Cline, if there were an infrastructure bank created for3524each State, funded totally by private money and leveraged3525maybe--and you leveraged 10 percent of that for local projects3526that are rural in nature, could you see that helping in3527addressing some of the infrastructure needs that are a benefit3528to the transit industry?3529    Ms. Cline. Thank you for that question.3530    Our system never misses an opportunity to apply for funding3531similar to what you are speaking. And I believe that if we had3532something where we were able to do that, that it would3533definitely be beneficial for the rural areas and small3534communities.3535    Mr. Webster of Florida. Great. Thank you very much.3536    I yield back.3537    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Johnson, you are recognized.3538    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking3539Member, for holding this hearing.3540    And thank the witnesses for your testimony today.3541    It is time that we start thinking about working class3542Americans. They are living in constant fear, seeing headlines3543every day about the economy going into the tank because of3544tariffs, about cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and3545other programs that they depend on.3546    And my office is flooded with calls and emails from people3547terrified they will lose their benefits, their job, and their3548security.3549    When we talk about our transit system, we are really3550talking about people. I think about the working families who3551depend on transit to get to work on time, to get their kids to3552school, or to make a doctor's appointment without a car.3553    During the pandemic, Congress stepped up. We made sure that3554buses ran, trains kept moving, and workers stayed on the job.3555Then we doubled down with the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law,3556the largest transit investment in U.S. history.3557    Now is not the time to be stepping back from that progress.3558We would be neglecting the very workers who kept this country3559running and who risked their lives during a global crisis to3560keep the wheels of America turning.3561    So cutting transit investment will not just slow progress,3562it will raise unemployment and send a dangerous message that3563some people simply don't matter. It is time to stop taking from3564working class Americans and start giving them the future that3565they deserve.3566    Mr. Regan, on March 27, President Trump signed an Executive3567order ending collective bargaining at agencies involved in3568national security, claiming it would allow these agencies to,3569quote, ``execute their missions without delays or interference3570from union-related obstacles,'' end quote.3571    There is a concern that this Executive order will be used3572to erode collective bargaining rights in other agencies like3573the Federal Transit Administration.3574    Given the challenges transit workers are facing, can you3575discuss how this Executive order could affect their ability to3576advocate for themselves?3577    Mr. Regan. Yes, and thank you for the question.3578    The Executive order--Federal employees already--it is3579already a right-to-work environment. They don't have the3580ability to collectively--or to bargain for wages and benefits.3581    I mean, this is about protections in the workplace. The3582union representation they get is to make sure that they are not3583unfairly punished.3584    The way that that Executive order is executed, what they3585are trying to do, essentially it says that you are a national3586security threat if you exercise your right of freedom of3587assembly. That is what they are saying, that the minute you3588join a union, you are now unable to help a safety-sensitive or3589a security-sensitive function in your job.3590    And I think that is a very chilling message, because it is3591one of the most American things you can do, is to vote for and3592join a union. It is a First Amendment, freedom of assembly3593right. And that type of mindset should be chilling to all other3594union workers and certainly in areas where safety is critical3595and where Federal funding is also critical.3596    So we are vocally opposed to that Executive order. We are3597really concerned about it stretching into other areas. But we3598are going to fight back because we think it is vital that these3599workers have the protections that they have earned and that are3600enshrined in our Constitution.3601    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.3602    Sir, we have seen how public transit agencies have3603navigated the challenges brought on by the pandemic. Federal3604investments, such as the $108 billion in the Bipartisan3605Infrastructure Law and the $30 billion in the American Rescue3606Plan, were vital in keeping these agencies operational.3607    However, this funding is starting to run out, and many3608systems are now facing a financial crisis.3609    As Congress works on the next surface transportation bill,3610what do transit agencies and workers need from Congress to3611avoid financial instability and to maintain the recovery3612momentum?3613    Mr. Regan. Well, I think we need to--I think this is a3614really important opportunity for us as a Government to evaluate3615how our programs are working. And I think we had a brief pause3616during the pandemic where we allowed for operational3617assistance, the use of Federal funds for operating assistance.3618That obviously has ended now.3619    I think we need to make sure that, as we are looking to3620reauthorize these programs, we are meeting the needs of the3621various agencies throughout our country. That includes some3622areas where they need capital investments. In some agencies,3623they may need capital investments. In other areas, they may3624need operational assistance.3625    And there should be flexibility built in to meet the needs3626of the communities that are relying on these funds. So how we3627do that is an important question that this committee and all3628stakeholders are going to have going forward.3629    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. All right. Thank you.3630    I am out of time, and I yield back.3631    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Johnson.3632    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3633    Ms. Cline, I will come to you again. Of course, you talked3634about how large your agency is, the area it covers.3635    Although it is not just you. I was at River Cities Transit3636not that long ago, and they cover an area from Pennington3637County in the west, to Dewey County in the north, to Todd3638County in the south, Minnehaha County in the east.3639    I mean, this is really--the geography can be daunting, and3640yet, you mentioned the ridership for Prairie Hills is up 53641percent. Tell us why that is.3642    Ms. Cline. Great question.3643    I think part of it is that for 35 years, people have relied3644on Prairie Hills Transit. They know the name, they know the3645reputation. We have three drivers that have been there for 253646years. So they know their friends, their drivers, their3647neighbors.3648    But increased ridership in particular for children needing3649to get to schools so parents can stay at work, not have to3650leave work, increased ridership for different types of pools--3651National Guard, soccer parents, those kinds of things.3652    We are not just doing business the way we have always done3653it. We are always looking for new ways to meet what the people3654in the communities are really looking forward to.3655    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So, I mean, obviously3656increased ridership means increased number of drivers. I3657suspect you, like a lot of agencies, even with the long-tenured3658drivers you have got, probably it is difficult to find good3659drivers when you do have an opening.3660    Some have suggested that the CDL ``under the hood''3661exemption would be helpful. Tell us more about that.3662    Ms. Cline. Yes, that would remove one of the restrictions3663that drivers who are CDL-eligible or have their passenger3664endorsements need to meet.3665    Many of the buses, I think, and agencies downsized to3666smaller vehicles, but definitely the CDL requirements got much3667more cumbersome, much more intensive. And so removing that one3668piece would definitely be helpful to agencies, in particular3669smaller ones.3670    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So often these new3671regulations, they may be well intentioned, but they can3672actually be really detrimental. And so you look at some of3673these CDL requirements, I mean, ostensibly, that should make us3674safer.3675    I mean, what does the data with your agency say? I mean,3676are the safety numbers worse for the drivers without CDL3677driving those smaller vehicles? I would assume you have safe3678driver data on either class of vehicle.3679    Ms. Cline. No. And the example I would use is the three3680drivers that have that 25 years of experience, that has been3681accident-free.3682    But we also have a significant amount of training that goes3683into our drivers before they ever hit the road. And so they3684have certification courses that are trained through CTAA, and3685we do first aid, CPR.3686    The training that drivers have is, I think, sometimes not3687identified by the general public--oh, we hired this guy, threw3688him in a bus, and now they are driving us--but it is3689significant. And so, our agency has never had an accident of3690significance and definitely never a fatality in that 35 years.3691    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So--but I want to make sure I3692understand. The new CDL requirements that went into effect3693maybe a couple of years ago now, you haven't seen any evidence3694in the field that that has increased safety?3695    Ms. Cline. No. And, in fact, for agencies like us, it has3696become a real burden because to go to a university and get the3697training, it is extremely expensive. To have an in-house person3698that has already got multiple other duties doing that training.3699We are even training drivers for the school system. So it is3700cumbersome, and it doesn't need to be.3701    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Are there other examples you3702can think of, of where Federal regulations complicate rather3703than aid your work? Like, what do we need to work on? I mean,3704tell us, on a bipartisan basis, what can we go fix so you can3705do a better job of connecting people to social, economic, and3706educational opportunities?3707    Ms. Cline. Okay. Well, my example is, I have a staff of 60.3708You already heard that. Four of us are administrative people.3709So every time a regulation comes up that says, ``You need to do3710this, you need to do that,'' it is up to that staff of four to3711figure out how we do that to meet the relationships of all of3712the additional regulation.3713    But certainly, we can downsize that. We would really like3714to downsize that. NEPA is one of the requirements that would3715definitely help us in new projects, building projects.3716    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, I told you she3717was good.3718    With that, I would yield back.3719    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Garcia.3720    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, of3721course, the witnesses today.3722    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law provided a stable,3723predictable source of funding for numerous types of projects3724over a 5-year period. As we sit here, however, this3725administration is seeking to revoke projects that were funded3726by the infrastructure law.3727    They are looking for projects that mention words like3728``green,'' ``bicycle infrastructure,'' ``equity,'' and3729``climate change.'' Some unobligated projects with these words3730would be subject to an additional layer of review according to3731a recent DOT memo.3732    What message are we sending to State and local partners3733about the Federal Government's ability to keep its funding3734promises? What precedent does this set?3735    We are talking about safety projects. Protected bike lanes3736connect people to bus and rail lines. Streetscape improvements3737enhance pedestrian safety and incentivize the use of public3738transit. Billions of dollars are at risk.3739    Mr. Regan, your testimony mentions that public transit3740ridership has recovered to about 85 percent or so of3741prepandemic levels. We seem to be on the right track, but3742fiscal cliff challenges remain.3743    Can you detail what impact this funding freeze would have3744on the public transit sector, both on workforce and service3745levels as well?3746    Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question.3747    I think it is very risky to be subjecting extra layering to3748these projects, both from the jobs perspective that I am happy3749to represent, but also from the progress perspective of what3750the infrastructure law was intended to do over a 5-year period.3751    And I think it is also important to remember that these3752grants, these projects that were being awarded, these were not3753developed by people at FTA. This is what your community needs.3754These are from local leaders who decided we should apply for3755money for this purpose because this is a need in our community.3756    And I don't care if you are in a large city, like if you3757are in Manhattan, or if you are in Lincoln, Nebraska, or if you3758are in Jackson, Mississippi, there is going to be a need for3759Federal funds, and the local leaders are deciding that this is3760something that will benefit our constituents.3761    So when you are scrutinizing specific words in an3762application like that, it is going after the decisions made by3763local leaders that I think is very sort of tone-deaf to what3764they--they are telling you what they need. They are telling you3765that this is how this program, this money can help us. And we3766should be supporting all those efforts regardless of where the3767project is.3768    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you. I hope people are3769listening.3770    I also appreciate your highlighting a topic that some see3771as an easy fix for financial challenges faced by transit3772agencies. That is using autonomous vehicles in the public3773transit sector.3774    We are seeing local pilot programs experiment with this3775technology. Without a Federal framework, States are free to3776develop their own plans, potentially without regard to the3777safety of pedestrians or bicyclists, or, worse, allow3778unregulated testing.3779    Mr. Regan, do you agree that we need a uniform standard for3780autonomous vehicles in public transit?3781    Mr. Regan. One hundred percent. We cannot be deploying3782untested technology without a strict Federal framework for how3783it can be deployed. And that includes on the safety front, but3784also on the workforce front.3785    We should make sure that technology, as it is incorporated3786into our existing public transit systems, is additive to the3787workforce, that there are training opportunities, there are3788growth opportunities for the people who have these middle class3789jobs in communities across the country.3790    It would be unwise to think you can stop technology, but it3791is wise to think that we can create a policy framework that3792makes sure that, as it is incorporated, it is done safely in a3793way that also benefits the communities economically and the3794people who are working in those systems.3795    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Well, thank you, and I am working3796on a bill to do just that.3797    On AV testing on our roads--this is my final question, and3798we have got a half a minute to answer--what should this3799committee be thinking about regarding this technology as we3800approach the next surface reauthorization?3801    Mr. Regan. Safety first. Any vehicles in the transit3802systems share the road space with pedestrians, with bicyclists,3803with private car operators. Adding into it a new technology,3804there are a lot of risks involved with that.3805    And I think that it is incumbent upon regulators and3806legislators to make sure that we are doing it with an eye3807towards safety. If it is proven, if it is able to move forward,3808that we have safety is not going to be compromised at the3809least.3810    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you.3811    And thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I yield3812back.3813    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Crawford.3814    Mr. Crawford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3815    I guess one of the biggest issues that we wrestle with in3816this body across committees is urban-versus-rural divide, one3817of the things that we struggle with regardless of the topic of3818conversation.3819    But the lane I want to go down today is exactly that, and3820that is, as you know, Ms. Cline, IIJA provided approximately3821$108.2 billion for FTA-administered programs.3822    Large transit systems account for the majority of national3823transit ridership and service, but many of those systems can't3824even turn a profit and depend on Federal funding to operate.3825    For example, through COVID-relief bills, FTA was provided3826with almost $70 billion in emergency supplemental funding and3827somehow that large transit system received 53.6 percent of that3828funding. Districts like mine are left watching these large3829transit systems take the bulk of the funding, and then my3830communities are scraping the bottom of the barrel for what is3831left.3832    These metropolitan transit authorities are taking advantage3833of the system and leaving the rural areas to fend for3834themselves.3835    So, Ms. Cline, can you explain to me how rural communities3836can compete against large transit authorities when it comes to3837Federal funding?3838    Ms. Cline. The honest answer is I don't think we can3839compete with them. But we do a really good job of being able to3840develop private partnerships, public partnerships, engage in3841additional contractual work that helps support what we do.3842    And because we are so rural, I think the majority of the3843individuals living in those communities have our backs, too. So3844they are helping us with the dollars that come in.3845    But we are not able to compete with the huge urbanized3846properties. We develop close relationships with our closest3847small urban system and work with them closely, but funding-3848wise, their funding is a totally different resource. It comes3849directly to them. For a rural system like us, we are a3850subrecipient of the dollars that come to the State.3851    Mr. Crawford. One of the things that--you start talking3852about transit systems, and most people sort of default to rail,3853commuter rail, things like this. But rural communities, that3854construct just doesn't exist. So we rely more heavily on3855infrastructure, that is our roads and bridges that serve3856transit authorities like yours.3857    Infrastructure is the most important part of transit3858operations. Whether it is rail or road, it is vital that they3859are properly maintained and updated.3860    But when it comes to funding for transit infrastructure,3861the bulk of the funding goes toward those large transit3862authorities that I described, what we consider--our first3863thought is some of the rail infrastructure.3864    So it is important to continue to update and improve3865transit infrastructure for large metro areas. I am not denying3866that. This doesn't address the overall issue of the rural3867problem, though.3868    And I am just wondering if you can provide me with some3869insight on how improving rural infrastructure can impact the3870overall health of our Nation's transit systems.3871    Ms. Cline. Thank you.3872    I think that improving funding would be very helpful in3873South Dakota in particular and many other rural States. Roads,3874highways, bridges are very important.3875    And as an aside, sort of, we have done a suspension system3876on our buses. But that is all we operate. We don't operate3877rail. We don't operate ferries in South Dakota.3878    So the ability to work through that is the important part3879for us. Additional funding is always great. Do we think that is3880going to happen right now? Probably not. But formulized3881funding--section 5310, 5311, 5339--are really important in the3882continued support through those funds.3883    Mr. Crawford. Appreciate that.3884    Let me talk about innovation. Transit legacy systems, such3885as subways, things that we probably most often think about when3886we talk about transit systems, are often very cost-inefficient,3887unable to turn a profit.3888    So let me ask you, Mr. Feigenbaum, would investments in new3889technology and transit systems such as autonomous vehicles and3890buses free up more transit dollars to be invested in smaller3891and more rural communities?3892    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes, they absolutely would, and I think3893they are something that should be tested. Obviously, some of3894them are not ready for primetime right now, which is why we3895have the testing programs.3896    I know it is a contentious issue, but labor costs are one3897of the highest costs of transit, and so to try to get the3898overall system, more service at a lower cost, that is one of3899the things that a lot of transit agencies are looking at.3900    Mr. Crawford. Excellent.3901    Thank you all for being here. You have been very helpful.3902Appreciate it.3903    Mr. Rouzer. Ms. Hoyle.3904    Ms. Hoyle of Oregon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.3905    First of all, I would like to recognize two constituents3906who are here from my district, Jameson Auten, the director of3907Lane Transit District, and Susan Soonkeum Cox, who is the chair3908of the Lane Transit Board. Thank you for being here. Very much3909appreciate the work that you do in both our urban and rural3910communities.3911    Our people rely on the infrastructure that you are willing3912to put forward. And I think our transit system, for the size3913that we are, is exceptional. So thank you for utilizing our3914taxpayer dollars efficiently.3915    So transit workers are facing increasing threats on the3916job; 121-percent increase in reported assaults on operators3917from 2008 until 2021. I talk to many of our transit operators3918who really have come to fear going to work. It is incredibly3919stressful.3920    Nearly 60 percent of the Amalgamated Transit Union members3921report that the risk of assault affects their mental health.3922And there is a real reason to fear.3923    Many assaults are also underreported. Workers often stay3924silent because they believe reporting it won't lead to action3925or they fear retaliation.3926    Concerns about crime can drive people away from public3927transit, right? That is a real fear. A safer transit system3928brings in more riders, builds public trust, and creates better3929working conditions for workers who keep it running.3930    Mr. Regan, how can we ensure operator assault data required3931by the FTA isn't just collected, but actually leads to3932enforcements, accountability, and required safety improvements?3933    Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question.3934    I think those of us in the labor community always viewed3935those worker-safety provisions in the IIJA as an important3936first step, that that was by no means the solution to the3937problem. And we also have an understanding that when you are3938trying to correct such a big problem, it is going to take time.3939And data that informs you where the risks are is so critical to3940making sure that we can make informed decisions about how to3941protect workers and passengers.3942    The other important aspect is, that data needs to get to3943the safety committees at each of these agencies. And one of the3944most important reforms we did there was to make sure that the3945workers, the unions, had an equal seat at the table in terms of3946creating a safe work environment, to create a safe transit3947system, because there is nobody who is going to understand the3948risks better than the people who are on the ground, on the3949buses, doing the jobs.3950    So those committees, as they take in the data and as they3951incorporate the legitimate views of their workforce, that is3952going to be a really important step for how we can actually try3953to solve this.3954    But we do need to go farther. We need to make sure that we3955are redesigning workspaces, as I mentioned, incorporating3956barriers where possible.3957    Moving the ball forward in this next bill is going to be a3958critical point on how are we going to solve this problem for3959good and not just give a wave at it and move on.3960    Ms. Hoyle of Oregon. Right. Thank you.3961    Transit agencies are on the front lines of public health,3962housing insecurity, community safety, often without the3963resources to address those challenges.3964    Mr. Regan, do you think this shows the need for more3965flexible Federal operating funds to keep agencies protecting3966workers, supporting riders, and keeping systems running safely?3967And do you, very briefly, have some examples of how you think3968that could work?3969    Mr. Regan. Yes, and I think Mr. Ford mentioned this, as3970well, in his testimony, that as the Federal programs are meant3971to support these agencies across the country, in many ways, the3972programs need to meet agencies where they are.3973    That means there are going to be some places that3974desperately need operating assistance and other places that3975need capital assistance to invest in new buses. And we should3976be designing these programs so that it is meeting the needs of3977different types of agencies across the board.3978    Ms. Hoyle of Oregon. Great. Thank you very much.3979    And I yield back.3980    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Babin.3981    Dr. Babin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3982    And I want to thank the witnesses here. Appreciate you.3983    Mr. Feigenbaum, you mentioned in your testimony that3984contracting certain services can cut individual transit3985authorities' operating budgets by as much as 30 percent.3986    Why haven't more agencies adopted this approach? And what3987barriers are there to prevent more public transit folks from3988using this strategy?3989    Mr. Feigenbaum. Sure. Thanks for the question.3990    Dr. Babin. Yes, sir.3991    Mr. Feigenbaum. So the easiest answer is that it is much3992easier when you are starting up a new service than when you3993have an established service. Because when you have an3994established service, depending on the rules you have with3995labor, depending on some of the other conditions, it can be3996more challenging. There is also just institutional inertia:3997``We have done it this way. We are not interested in looking.''3998    And it is not always the cheapest solution. But I do think3999that agencies should look to get three bids, minimum of three4000bids, from private contractors--there are many of them that4001operate across this country--and also look at doing it4002themselves and seeing what gets the best value. Because it is a4003combination of lower cost and better ridership experience.4004    Dr. Babin. Okay. Thank you.4005    Mr. Ford, thank you for being here.4006    You talked in your testimony about the cost savings4007associated with introducing autonomous vehicles into your4008fleet. What barriers have you encountered as your agency has4009worked through the Ultimate Urban Circulator project while4010adopting this cutting-edge technology?4011    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.4012    Dr. Babin. Yes, sir.4013    Mr. Ford. This has been a challenge. And it is probably4014something that our community has embraced as a challenge, to4015provide more transportation in our community at a much more4016cost-efficient level.4017    I think it was spoken of earlier, in terms of the cost of4018providing 1 mile of service, the largest cost is the operator4019cost. We do believe, though, in terms of our fixed-route4020services, the larger buses, that impact on our busdrivers will4021come much farther in the future. We will upskill them so they4022will be able to take advantage of the jobs in the future.4023    However, as it relates to the autonomous shuttles that we4024are operating, we see them actually helping us solve the first-4025mile/last-mile-type issue. While we may have a robust fixed-4026route bus system, the challenge in an 870-square-mile community4027is getting people to that bus stop. And so our Urban Circulator4028program is focused on downtown, but we see it expanding4029throughout our community and being tailormade for those4030particular communities that don't need a 40-foot bus.4031    Dr. Babin. Okay. Thank you very much.4032    And one more, Mr. Ford. You also talked in your testimony4033about integrating emerging technologies like AI into traffic4034management systems. And what has Jacksonville's experience with4035AI been in your transit system, and how would you recommend4036other agencies adopt it to make their systems safer and more4037efficient?4038    And then, finally, how does Jacksonville implement the4039data-security measures to prevent all the data collected and4040analyzed by the system from being used to surveil American4041citizens, the citizens of your fair city there, as we have seen4042the Communist Party of China do in their country?4043    Mr. Ford. Very good question.4044    So, as it relates to ensuring that our technology isn't4045leveraged, or, I guess, hacked, for a better description, we4046have put together some very robust cybersecurity programs and4047testing, in terms of testing those systems for penetration and4048things of that nature.4049    In fact, in terms of our autonomous vehicle program, we set4050up a separate cybersecurity IT system, separate for those4051vehicles, because we would assume they would be a very4052lucrative target for mal-actors, criminals.4053    Dr. Babin. Right.4054    Mr. Ford. As it relates to data management and AI, we are4055using it for everything from determining our route structures,4056how we determine what levels of service to provide, origins and4057destinations of our customers, as well as safety and security4058on our vehicles.4059    We are able to identify hotspots in our community, and that4060is where we target our security forces and our investments in4061terms of the sheriff's office and our security guards to ensure4062safety.4063    So we use data and analytics to actually make those4064decisions.4065    Dr. Babin. And that data and analytics does not include4066surveillance and----4067    Mr. Ford [interrupting]. No, sir.4068    Dr. Babin [continuing]. Anything like that?4069    Mr. Ford. No, sir.4070    Dr. Babin. Okay. All right. Thank you very much.4071    I am running out of time, but I appreciate all the4072questions in the past on criminal activity in these transit4073systems. Prosecution, arrests, and protection of workers and4074customers is absolutely necessary.4075    So, with that, I will yield back.4076    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Nadler.4077    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4078    Secretary Duffy's crusade against agencies like the MTA4079paints a picture of unsafe, unaccountable transit, but the4080facts tell a different story. According to the National Safety4081Council, public transit is 10 times safer than driving. In New4082York, subway crime is at its lowest level in nearly 30 years,4083thanks to Federal investments in cameras, operator barriers,4084safety teams, and training.4085    So, when Secretary Duffy threatens to withhold funding, he4086is not improving safety; he is undermining it. Instead of4087making threats, the Federal Government should increase funding4088for public transit and give agencies added flexibility to4089better use that funding to keep riders and workers safe.4090    Mr. Ford, your testimony highlighted that ridership is4091rising across the country and that even modest shifts from4092driving to transit can reduce traffic fatalities by as much as409350 percent. You also emphasized that agencies are taking a4094layered approach to safety, investing in everything from4095transit ambassadors to cutting-edge technologies to keep riders4096secure.4097    Given that progress, what do you want the traveling public4098to understand about the safety of taking transit today?4099    Mr. Ford. Thank you for that question.4100    Transit is one of the safest modes for our citizens in this4101country in terms of transportation and potential safety and4102criminal activity. So we are very proud of our record in terms4103of the progress that has been made.4104    The challenge is that, as we go forward, how do we continue4105to have the funding that allows us to maintain and keep our4106systems safe as we go forward? And that is critical, and just4107making sure that adequate funding is in place for us to4108maintain the safety of our systems.4109    Mr. Nadler. So, when Secretary Duffy threatens to withhold4110funding, either because of the alleged high crime rates or4111because he doesn't like the State's stand on congestion4112pricing, that would not help crime or safety in the system?4113    Mr. Ford. As it relates to New York and safety of that4114system, it is a very unique situation. They are carrying4115millions of people on a daily basis. I can better speak to4116specifically in Jacksonville, where our citizens and our4117riders, we survey them every year.4118    We carried over 7\1/2\ million passengers last year. Their4119ratings in terms of safety on the system--they feel that we4120are, in some cases, much safer than the communities that we4121actually operate in. And so they see us as a respite in terms4122of safety, as it relates to the wide swath of areas and4123communities that we traverse through.4124    Mr. Nadler. As I said in my opening statement, in New York,4125subway crime is at its lowest level in 30 years. So, when the4126Secretary threatens to withhold funding because of allegedly4127high crime rates, which are not in fact high, or because of an4128unrelated subject where the administration doesn't like an MTA4129program on congestion pricing, that would not help crime; it4130would obviously go in the other direction.4131    Mr. Regan, your testimony warns that recent efforts to roll4132back federally funded workforce development programs and4133dismantle union-negotiated training plans are not just4134misguided, they are dangerous. You point out that these4135programs are essential to building a skilled, stable, and safe4136transit workforce and that politicizing them puts both workers4137and passengers at risk.4138    If these programs are weakened or eliminated under new4139ideological directives, what recourse do frontline transit4140workers have? And what role should Congress play in defending4141their rights and protections?4142    Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question.4143    And I think every transit operator in the country would4144acknowledge that hiring and retaining workers is a real concern4145for them right now. And these workforce development programs4146are a vital part of making sure that we have that sustained4147pipeline of workers that are going to be bus operators or4148transit operators or mechanics and maintenance workers.4149    So, as we make investments, I think one of the most4150important things that was done in the IIJA was the requirement4151for workforce development as 5 percent of the Low or No4152Emission Bus Grants, for example. What that does is, it4153acknowledges that we are not just investing in stuff; we are4154investing in people. We are investing in our communities and4155the workers that are going to be responsible for transporting4156our constituents safely from point A to point B.4157    So, as we invest in people as well as in new stuff, I think4158we get better outcomes all around.4159    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.4160    I yield back.4161    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Stauber.4162    Mr. Stauber. Thank you, Mr. Chair.4163    I want to talk to you briefly about a success story in4164northern Minnesota called Arrowhead Transit. It was established4165in 1974, and it is a primary provider of public transportation4166in the Arrowhead region of Minnesota. They are the largest4167rural public transportation system in the State.4168    And they quote themselves: ``Our services cater to the4169diverse needs of our travelers, commuters, and community4170members. From scheduled services to our Volunteer Driver4171Program, we ensure convenient and accessible public4172transportation options for all. Our drivers undergo4173comprehensive training, covering defensive driving4174techniques,'' et cetera.4175    ``At the core of our services is Dial-A-Ride, a flexible4176and personalized public transportation solution for those4177seeking adaptability in their commute. Unlike traditional4178routes, Dial-A-Ride offers inner-city public transportation4179with the flexibility you need, providing a quick and efficient4180journey tailored to your requirements,'' end quote.4181    Ms. Cline, I have sponsored the Volunteer Driver Tax4182Appreciation Act in the past two sessions of Congress. This4183legislation increases the Federal tax-deduction mileage rate4184for volunteer drivers from its current rate, 14 cents per mile,4185to be equal to the Internal Revenue Service's business rate,4186currently set at 70 cents per mile.4187    CTAA is a national sponsor of the bill. How could this help4188your agency and other rural transit agencies?4189    Ms. Cline. Well, Prairie Hills Transit does not use4190volunteer drivers; however, we are very supportive of this. We4191do more of a neighbor-helping-neighbor-type situation with our4192drivers and communities.4193    But I think, in the long run, it would be very beneficial4194for agencies using volunteer drivers to know that that is an4195option. It is certainly much more of an incentive to bring in4196that volunteer pool.4197    Mr. Stauber. Yes, I spoke to some seniors in the district4198that I represent that use volunteer drivers. And the drivers4199and the citizen or neighbor, they build a relationship with4200that volunteer driver, they trust that volunteer driver. I have4201actually had them tell me they get nervous if another driver4202takes them to their appointment or the grocery store.4203    I have also found it interesting that some of these4204volunteer drivers, they are not doing it for the money. They4205are doing it for the love of their community. And at least we4206can pay them the rate that the IRS is putting out. I mean, it4207is ridiculous. They can't even--in some instances in the past,4208they could not even pay for their gas to equate the cost of the4209trip. I mean, that is just unconscionable.4210    And the Volunteer Driver Program--Arrowhead Transit4211regulates and puts it forward and helps establish the4212guidelines--that is a lifeline for our rural communities,4213especially in northern Minnesota.4214    Systems serving large, rural regions, like your service4215area or like Arrowhead Transit in my district, have unique4216challenges. Ms. Cline, where can the regulatory burden be4217reduced to help you better serve the communities?4218    Ms. Cline. Well, one of the things that we see is that--4219and, again, let me reiterate, we have 4 administrative staff to4220the total 60 employees that we have--we have both State and4221Federal regulations that we have to adhere to.4222    Simplifying the vehicle procurement for us; reducing4223unnecessary data collection; I mentioned previously the NEPA4224guidance needs to be consistent with Federal highway rules to4225allow for property acquisition--those are all things that4226really compile and cause us to stay up at night.4227    There are just so many things that a small staff needs to4228adhere to to make sure that you are doing them correctly.4229    Mr. Stauber. And I appreciate what you do.4230    And one of the rules and regulations was, volunteer drivers4231were going to be--and it didn't happen--were going to be4232required to have commercial insurance. You talk about ending a4233volunteer-driver service for rural America? You put that on the4234drivers. And you and your staff and the other agencies pushed4235back on that, and we must continue to push back on that.4236    Thank you for your service.4237    And, Mr. Chair, I yield back.4238    Mr. Rouzer. Ms. Davids.4239    Ms. Davids of Kansas. Thank you, Chairman.4240    Thank you, also, just to the chair and to our ranking4241member for holding this hearing today.4242    And then thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to4243be here and sharing your expertise with us.4244    I am going to talk a little bit about where I am at, which4245is the Kansas Third. I am in the Kansas City metro area. And,4246next summer, Kansas City is going to be serving as one of the4247World Cup host cities--I am very excited about it; we are all4248very excited about it--with six games coming to the Kansas City4249region. Hundreds of thousands of visitors are going to be4250coming, not just from the U.S. but internationally, to4251experience the world-class soccer culture that we have, our4252hospitality, and, obviously, our barbecue.4253    But I will say that this visitor load is--it is undoubtedly4254going to put a burden on the various transit systems that we4255have in the Kansas City region. And by holding a series of4256community conversations at the local level, I have been doing4257what I can to try to make sure that all our stakeholders are4258communicating, but, also, what the level of preparedness is,4259asking necessary questions from the Federal perspective about4260what we can do to make sure that this is successful.4261    And we know that there are extraordinary--we are hearing4262about it today--extraordinary resource needs for transit, for4263security, workforce, and other areas of support. And that is4264especially true for this worldwide event that is going to be4265happening.4266    So my first question is for the full panel. In your4267opinion, would a separate funding source or a separate funding4268mechanism for cities that are hosting large special events,4269whether it is the World Cup, things like the Olympics--those4270added costs to our transit systems, do you think that there4271should be or it would be beneficial to have some separate4272mechanism for funding transit security, public health?4273    We can start here with Mr. Ford and go down.4274    Mr. Ford. Thank you for that question, and it is extremely4275relevant. In fact, just this past weekend, at the American4276Public Transportation Association Mobility Conference, we have4277a special group of CEOs who are hosting the Olympics, the World4278Cup, both Los Angeles, Salt Lake, and then the myriad of World4279Cup cities, and that was a topic of discussion: How do we seek4280and secure additional funding to support our operations during4281these mega-events that are beneficial to our country but4282definitely beneficial from a local standpoint, in terms of4283additional revenue and funds and expenditures in that4284community, but that come at a cost? And, in many cases, the4285cost is far greater than the annual budget or the budgets of4286our transit systems. But it is worth the investment at the4287Federal level. We truly believe that.4288    Ms. Davids of Kansas. Go ahead.4289    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes. Thanks for the question.4290    RATP Dev is actually a Parisian company, so we have run the4291Olympics in Paris over the summer. And I think if you look to4292the organization that happened there, that is very much4293characteristic of how it happened. So there were different4294budgets set up for security, for movement of the athletes,4295people who--coaches.4296    So there are different buckets set up that I think make it4297more of a viable option to fund these special events that4298otherwise just would get convoluted and it is difficult to find4299the appropriate funding.4300    Ms. Davids of Kansas. Okay. And I appreciate that note,4301that we can look internationally for models----4302    Mr. Booterbaugh [interposing]. Absolutely.4303    Ms. Davids of Kansas [continuing]. Of funding mechanisms.4304    So my second question that--we will see. My second question4305is, kind of, longer term operations of those same systems that4306are going to be very much used during these mega-events in4307communities like the Kansas City area.4308    And Federal law allows transit authorities in cities with4309less than 200,000 residents to use Federal formula funds for4310transit operations, and transit systems in regions with more4311than 200,000 are not permitted to do that.4312    As we talk about transit agencies continuing to make these4313tough decisions about how to manage budgets, having more4314flexibility to use their section 5307 dollars may help bridge4315the gap to keep bus routes or operations sustained.4316    I know this has certainly been the case for the Kansas City4317Area Transportation Authority. They have been struggling to4318keep their bus routes running while dealing with various budget4319challenges.4320    Mr. Ford, I will ask you to respond to that maybe in4321writing after. My time has expired. But I would love to hear a4322bit from you about flexibility of using section 5307 funds for4323transit operations.4324    Mr. Ford. Yes. Very quickly, within our association, there4325is a great deal of debate----4326    Ms. Davids of Kansas [interposing]. Okay.4327    Mr. Ford [continuing]. At this juncture. So we have not4328come up with a final determination, as an association, in terms4329of that flexibility. And so, please----4330    Ms. Davids of Kansas [interrupting]. A continued4331conversation, then, it sounds like.4332    Mr. Ford. Yes, we need to continue that conversation. We4333look forward to working with you.4334    Ms. Davids of Kansas. Thank you.4335    Apologies for going over, Mr. Chair. I yield.4336    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Kiley.4337    Mr. Kiley of California. Thank you, Mr. Chair.4338    Mr. Ford, I want to ask you about the Jacksonville4339autonomous vehicle program. Because I think, as policymakers,4340we need to be thinking a lot more about the future of4341transportation, and I think that there is too often a failure4342to fully appreciate the extent to which the future truly has4343arrived, in many ways.4344    And to see a very current example of this, you can go to a4345city in my State, San Francisco, where there is this stark4346juxtaposition.4347    Starting with the public transportation that exists, you4348have BART, which is one of probably the worst public agencies4349in the U.S. The system is a total disaster. There is a $4004350million deficit right now. It is very unsafe. People don't feel4351safe getting on. It is a system from the 1970s. It is4352unreliable. The trains don't often run on time. Just generally4353an unpleasant passenger experience.4354    But then you go aboveground and you see these sort of4355curious-looking vehicles at first that are operated by Waymo4356that have become an increasingly salient feature of the4357landscape in San Francisco. In fact, I believe that they are4358now second in the ride-share market. They have surpassed Lyft,4359and I think still behind Uber. But, in any case, this is4360actually, I feel like, not that well understood throughout the4361country for people who don't live in the few places where Waymo4362currently operates. And they are actually coming to Washington,4363DC, next year, so people around here are going to become a lot4364more familiar with it.4365    But you think about, what is the future of transportation?4366And we can consider this to be public transportation. Even4367though that is not the use of Waymo right now, it is clearly4368going to be what you are going to be doing in Jacksonville. Is4369the future of transportation going to look like these systems4370from the past that don't really work very well and are only4371really available in a handful of cities? Or is it going to be4372this sort of seamless, point-to-point transit that is extremely4373reliable, that is extremely safe, and that gets you exactly4374where you want to go?4375    Now, of course, there are all kinds of challenges involved4376in making that something that is broadly available and4377affordable and useful across the country, but I am interested4378in the model you are pioneering in Jacksonville.4379    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.4380    As the representative here and the witness testifying for4381the American Public Transportation Association, we do believe4382that the conventional transit systems that we currently4383operate--rail, bus rapid transit, fixed-route bus--it4384definitely has its place, because it helps with dealing with4385congestion in our communities, reducing the number of single-4386occupant cars. And in this Waymo example, you have one to two4387individuals in a conventional-type vehicle, automobile.4388    So we are focusing on a shared-ride use of autonomous4389vehicles, and that is something that will be part of a holistic4390system of public transportation that will have our automated4391people mover, it will have our bus system, it will have these4392autonomous vehicles.4393    We feel that the first-mile/last-mile challenge is one of4394the biggest challenges of getting people out of automobiles and4395onto public transportation. And in our community--we are not as4396dense as the bay area, but in our community, that first mile4397and last mile is the immediate barrier to people using public4398transportation, which would be, in the long run, much more4399affordable for them and accessible in terms of their lifestyle.4400    Mr. Kiley of California. And that is a great point, that4401these systems can complement each other. And I certainly think4402that in areas where we have functional transit and subway4403systems, they will continue to be important. There are many,4404many communities across the country that don't have those4405opportunities available, though. So I think this is a very4406exciting possibility to expand that and to sort of think in a4407more imaginative and broader way about what public4408transportation and transit really looks like.4409    And quickly, Ms. Cline--I have about a minute remaining4410here--I wanted to ask you about your transit program for4411veterans. Because this is one of the major obstacles that we4412see for veterans being able to get the care that they need, is4413just being able to get to their appointment at the VA, or,4414especially if they have some sort of specialist they need to4415see or procedure that isn't available within many miles, how do4416they even get to their appointment.4417    Can you tell me a little bit about how that works and maybe4418how we could expand these sort of opportunities for our4419veterans?4420    Ms. Cline. Certainly.4421    The Highly Rural Transportation Grant is a program that was4422established simply for those veterans living in counties that4423have seven or less people per square mile. Now, that doesn't4424mean that if you don't live within that highly rural county4425that we won't provide transportation.4426    But that program itself pays for the veterans' trips, so4427there is no charge to them. Some of the longest trips for those4428veterans can be between 200 and 300 miles, because that is the4429closest veteran facility for them.4430    And so it is a grant program that you have to apply for4431individually. It is outside the other formulized or4432discretionary grant awards.4433    Mr. Kiley of California. Well, thank you for what you are4434doing. And I think it is a great model that we should seek to4435spread and make more widely available for veterans across the4436country.4437    I yield back.4438    Mr. Rouzer. Mr. Stanton.4439    Mr. Stanton. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.4440    Thank you to the witnesses for testifying at this important4441hearing.4442    Representative Kiley asked a very good question about4443autonomous vehicles. My district, in the East Valley area--4444Chandler, Mesa, Tempe, Ahwatukee--is the epicenter for Waymo4445and autonomous vehicles, and it is a very important part of the4446menu of options for transportation in my region.4447    Great cities have as many diverse transportation options as4448possible, whether it is good streets and highways--we need4449thorough funding for those as well, but also more support for4450buses, bus rapid transit, light rail. We have had a huge4451success in my community in light rail. The streetcar system;4452autonomous vehicles, as Representative Kiley was talking about;4453microtransit, which is a great solution for the last-mile issue4454in cities across this country. We also need more support for4455bikeability and walkability of communities, as well.4456    The full spectrum of transportation needs to be supported4457at the local and at the Federal level. I am the former mayor of4458Phoenix, and I know all too well how important it is for the4459Federal Government to be a strong partner to State and local4460governments so that we can offer as many transportation options4461to the people of our community as possible.4462    And we need to view it not just in terms of ridership,4463although ridership is important. In my community, the economic4464development that has gone along where we have invested in light4465rail--and when I say ``we'' have invested, I mean the people of4466Phoenix, who have--we put it on the ballot. We had the largest4467public transportation investment and election supporting that,4468post-recession, across America, a 35-year, $32 billion plan,4469which was overwhelmingly supported by the people of Phoenix, in4470the red parts of the city and the blue parts of the city.4471People want smart transportation infrastructure investments,4472and I am very proud of the work we did to invest in public4473transportation in the city of Phoenix.4474    Phoenix light rail is a case study for how smart4475transportation investment is a catalyst for economic4476development. Employers have flocked to the areas along the4477light-rail line. It has changed the built environment of our4478city, in terms of the density of housing and development. So4479many people moving from North Scottsdale, other parts of the4480city, and downsizing because they want to be near the action4481and energy along the light-rail line. Seventeen-and-a-half4482billion dollars of public and private invested along the 254483existing miles of light rail. I say ``existing'' because we are4484growing in our light-rail system.4485    We have continued to build on that success here in Congress4486to increase Federal investments in transportation, particularly4487through targeted Federal investments like the Capital4488Investment Grants that help local communities fund construction4489or expansion of larger transit projects.4490    And I have been a broken record for the need to advocate4491for Federal funding for the project as well as increased4492resources for the CIG program. It has helped to finish4493construction on the northwest extension of light rail to4494Metrocenter, which is an incredibly important expansion of the4495system in Phoenix, an $850 million development that4496incorporates and centers public transit from day one.4497    And because of CIG, we are having an amazing moment in my4498community in just a few weeks here, in which we are going to4499open the South Central light-rail expansion, opening 5 new4500miles of track in one of the most economically disadvantaged4501parts of the city, in south Phoenix--one of the most diverse4502parts of our city, as well--bringing new economic opportunities4503and job opportunities to its residents. Recognized as a ladder-4504of-opportunity program--remember that old program in the Obama4505administration?--using public transportation to help people4506improve their financial options, in terms of growth in their4507job opportunities and educational opportunities, because of4508that investment.4509    Mr. Ford, as we prepare the next surface transportation4510reauthorization, we know the importance of the CIG program to4511our local communities. I have described how that has positively4512impacted my community that I led as mayor and now represent in4513Congress. Can you give other examples, in your capacity4514representing APTA, of how bolstering local investment in public4515transit betters local economies across the country?4516    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.4517    And, Congressman, I think it is critical, the success that4518the CIG has had across the Nation with a number of projects4519throughout our community.4520    In Jacksonville, for example, we were able to build the4521First Coast Flyer bus rapid transit network, which is 58 miles4522of BRT, the largest BRT in the Southeast United States. And4523with that came along transit-oriented development, and,4524literally, the permits and building and residential that has4525been built along that corridor has been astronomical.4526    One thing I would want to point out: As we look at4527continuing on Federal funding, that we look at how can we4528streamline the CIG process so that we can speed up the process4529of getting these projects built and in the ground. And so that4530is one of the platforms that APTA is pushing for, which is a4531zero-based examination of the CIG program and how can we move4532faster.4533    Mr. Stanton. Yes. An important part of the ``Abundance4534Agenda,'' and----4535    Mr. Ford [interposing]. Yes.4536    Mr. Stanton [continuing]. That is very important.4537    One final quick point, and that is: My friend Sharice4538Davids mentioned big public events. We hosted a very successful4539Super Bowl. We would not have been awarded the Super Bowl4540unless we had made those public transportation investments.4541    Mr. Ford. Exactly.4542    Mr. Stanton. With that, Chairman, I yield back.4543    Mr. Ford. Thank you.4544    Mr. Wied [presiding]. All right. The Chair now recognizes4545myself.4546    Thank you to our witnesses for your testimony here today.4547    I think it is clear that, while public transit is vital for4548those that have no other means of travel, we can't continue to4549throw money at transit services mindlessly and hope that they4550will magically become successful and self-sustaining. Even4551before COVID, ridership and revenue levels were decreasing. I4552think it is time we reexamine our approach to ensure that4553investments in transit are done in a manner that serves4554everyone, not just the legacy systems in major metropolitan4555areas.4556    These issues were exacerbated under the Biden4557administration, which incorporated nonstatutory equity and4558environmental justice criteria into FTA-issued notice of4559funding opportunities to advance their flawed political4560agendas.4561    Considering this, Ms. Cline, I was hoping you could4562elaborate on how administrative burdens like these prevent4563smaller transit systems from being able to access Federal4564funding opportunities and how Congress can make these funds4565more accessible.4566    Ms. Cline. Well, again, I am going to go back to reducing4567the regulatory burden, because that is one of the biggest4568challenges that we face as a small system, as do many others.4569    People have responsibilities in many other areas, but one4570of the things that we do are--many of our trips are 500 miles.4571They are not just across the street or to the grocery store. So4572having the ability to work within that timeframe, as well, and4573the budgetary constraints there.4574    So funding us--we operate on a shoestring. And I don't mean4575that lightly, but we don't compare it to the large cities. What4576we do isn't the same. But what we do is every bit as important4577to the individuals living in that 12,500-square-mile area. It4578is important.4579    Mr. Wied. All right. Thank you.4580    On the topic of fare evasion, a DC Metro report in 20224581found that one out of three bus riders weren't paying fares.4582And it is not just happening in Washington, DC, this is a4583common issue impacting major transit systems across the4584country.4585    This, combined with the increase in violence on transit4586systems, discourages riders and puts the sustainability of4587these systems in jeopardy.4588    Mr. Ford, given your background in the transportation4589industry both here and abroad, what policies or technologies4590are best suited to address crime and fare evasion on public4591transit systems?4592    Mr. Ford. As it relates to crime, we continue to feel that4593we are one of the safest modes in the country in terms of4594transportation overall. So, if you are riding on public4595transit, you are avoiding an accident that may happen on one of4596our roadways in your automobile or in some other type of4597vehicle, which has about a 10-times greater rate in terms of4598safety and fatalities, things of that nature.4599    As it relates to fare collection, our systems are doing a4600great job, I believe, in ensuring fares are being paid. The4601challenge is, in some of these activities related to4602particularly our bus operators, we are asking our bus operators4603to deescalate situations around fare evasion, because,4604unfortunately, in the worst-case scenario, someone gets very4605seriously injured or killed over a $1.50 to $2 fare.4606    So we have to find and strike that right balance between4607what is happening in our communities that we serve and what4608happens on our actual transit system and vehicles.4609    And so it is finding a right balance of training our4610operators, creating those physical barriers to prevent them4611from being assaulted, our station personnel from being4612assaulted over a fare, and getting the right support from our4613law enforcement officials to enforce fare policies.4614    Mr. Wied. All right. Thank you.4615    And, with that, I yield back.4616    The Chair recognizes Ms. Gillen.4617    Ms. Gillen. Thank you, Chair.4618    Thank you to all our witnesses.4619    I will start today with you, Mr. Ford. As you know, the4620American Public Transportation Association found--and you just4621mentioned this--that it can be 10 times safer per mile to use4622public transit than to travel by car.4623    My district is on the South Shore of Long Island, and it4624has faced an alarming increase in fatal traffic collisions.4625According to a major investigation that was just conducted by4626our local newspaper, Newsday, more than 2,100 people have been4627killed and 16,000 have been severely injured over the past 104628years during traffic accidents on Long Island's highways. Every46297 minutes, on average, a serious traffic accident happens on4630Long Island. So this is a five-alarm fire, and we must do more4631to address it.4632    How can continued and increased investment in public4633transit systems help reduce traffic on our roads and increase4634safety for our constituents?4635    Mr. Ford. Thank you very much for the question.4636    Continued investment in public transportation allows us to4637build and maintain safe systems, reliable systems.4638    One of the opportunities is, with continued Federal4639funding, improving the quality of service that we provide so4640that we can provide frequent service and reliable service and4641the systems that I think our constituents are looking for in4642terms of real-time passenger information and data so that they4643can plan their trip and their travels and leverage our systems,4644not to the degree of having your own personal automobile, but4645very close to that. And that attracts choice riders in addition4646to our dedicated ridership.4647    And so we value Federal funding and the support we have had4648over the years, but we need it to continue to go to take us to4649that next level and reduce the amount of congestion and traffic4650that you may be experiencing in your community.4651    Ms. Gillen. Thank you. Thank you.4652    And as you also shared in your testimony this morning, the4653Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides $108.2 billion4654in funding for our public transit systems, and this is a direct4655investment back into our communities. Every $1 billion invested4656in public transit sustains $5 billion in long-term economic4657impact and 50,000 jobs.4658    What would a freeze on this funding do to our transit4659systems and our communities? And what should Congress do to4660build on these investments in the next surface transportation4661reauthorization bill?4662    Mr. Ford. Freezing or slowing down that funding would have4663a detrimental impact to our communities. The transit systems4664are the lifeblood, it is the backbone of connectivity in our4665communities, and quite often, whether you ride transit or not,4666you are supported by someone who is riding on public4667transportation.4668    We also have shared a statistic related to that capital4669funding, that Federal funding: that 77 percent of that funding4670actually goes to the private sector. And it goes to the private4671sector in communities that may not even have a public transit4672system, but they have a factory or a plant that is building4673brake shoes or brake pads, for that example, or seats for our4674buses and our trains.4675    And so, in many cases, that--and I think it was in the4676written testimony. We have a graphic showing a railcar and a4677bus and the actual pipeline supply chain that is built in the4678United States in States that may not have robust transit4679systems but they have parts that are operating in a Miami, a4680New York, a New Jersey, or in a Jacksonville.4681    Ms. Gillen. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ford.4682    Mr. Regan, one of the most important responsibilities we4683have in Congress is upholding labor standards and protecting4684American workers' rights. Federal labor protections for our4685transit workers are vitally important in ensuring that Federal4686infrastructure investments do not undermine local standards.4687    Can you discuss how impactful these protections have been4688for hard-working TWU members and for our country's public4689transit systems?4690    Mr. Regan. Yes. And thank you for the question.4691    Without these labor protections--labor protections are4692vital for making sure that public transit is a bastion of4693middle-class jobs in this country, that you don't need a4694college degree, you can go be a busdriver and make a middle-4695class living and raise a family. And you don't get that--you4696get a race to the bottom without the labor protections that we4697have in our transit system.4698    And without 13(c) and other important protections, I don't4699think we would have those same quality of jobs, and I am4700certain we would have much worse retention issues in terms of4701maintaining a workforce that is able to safely move people4702around the country.4703    Ms. Gillen. Thank you. Thank you so much for that.4704    I see I am just about out of time, so I will yield back.4705Thank you, Mr. Chair.4706    Mr. Taylor [presiding]. The gentlewoman yields back.4707    Mr. Hurd.4708    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.4709    I would like to thank Chairman Rouzer and Ranking Member4710Norton for holding this important hearing.4711    I represent Colorado's Third Congressional District, which4712is one of the larger districts in the country. It covers4713basically most of western and southern Colorado. Its geographic4714footprint is actually larger than the State of Pennsylvania,4715which, if Mr. Bresnahan were here, I would give him a hard time4716about that. So rural transit is essential for my district.4717    And some of our transit systems have quite a bit of tourist4718traffic, as well, in our rural communities. The Roaring Fork4719Transportation Authority, which is in the Aspen-Glenwood4720Springs region of my district, is the largest rural transit4721system in the United States. It has 4.8 million passenger trips4722each year, on average. Or, at least, back in 2023, those were4723the latest numbers.4724    So, Ms. Cline, my question for you is: In your testimony,4725you mentioned leading an agency that is part of, quote, the4726``other transit network'' serving rural communities. Can you4727talk specifically about some of the challenges that you face4728and your agency faces compared to your urban counterparts and4729how Congress might be able to help address these in the surface4730reauthorization bill?4731    Ms. Cline. Thank you for the question.4732    I think that many of the smaller agencies, mine included,4733were subrecipients of State. So the State receives the money4734that comes from you, and, as a subrecipient, we don't always4735get the dollars that we need, which, in turn, provides service4736constraints. People don't get the days and hours of service4737that they really need to get to the things that they need. So,4738if you have a job where you work 6 days a week, we may only be4739able to run 5 days a week. That is one of the big things.4740    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. And is that subaward given--how is4741that determined? Is that at the State level, then?4742    Ms. Cline. That is determined, in South Dakota, at a State4743level. Many States are the recipient of the funds, and then the4744agencies apply for the dollars--section 5311 dollars and 5310,47455339.4746    We run out of money by the ninth or tenth money. We run out4747of Federal money. So we are operating on reserves that we have4748been able to acquire, whether it is through Medicaid dollars,4749contractual agreements, fares. We do charge fares.4750    But many agencies are--and I am not going to use the word4751``silo'' again, because that is a bad word, but--we do lots of4752different things to make that money stretch. The issue is, even4753though we got more money in BIL, through that we were able to4754get to a level to actually pay for the new vehicles coming in,4755increase staffing wages and benefits--which are still not where4756they should be.4757    So, financially, rural systems are really at a4758disadvantage, I believe.4759    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. And are you able to plan--is there a4760fluctuation in funding year over year, or are you able to plan?4761Is it consistent in what you see when it comes to that funding4762as disbursed by the State?4763    Ms. Cline. Well, the funding coming into the State is4764consistent; however, our funding is based on individual4765application each year. So we have what is called a report card,4766and depending on how you score on a report card--it has way4767more things than we are going to go into right now, based on an4768individual agency. But----4769    Mr. Hurd of Colorado [interrupting]. And are there ways4770that you can think of that Congress could, with respect to4771surface reauthorization and sending the money to the States--4772say, South Dakota--could condition or adjust those dollars to4773make sure that we are prioritizing the right projects for rural4774States like South Dakota?4775    Ms. Cline. Yes. Well, one of the things that I said in my4776testimony was that making sure that, when we apply for grants,4777we are applying against other rural agencies, that we are not4778applying against agencies that are supported by APTA, the4779larger agencies. Because we don't have the administrative4780staff. Again, my staff of four writes all the grants that we4781put out. And, actually, only two of us do that, so----4782    Mr. Hurd of Colorado [interrupting]. You punch above your4783weight, like most in rural America have to do that exactly.4784    So, thank you very much for what you do in the rural part4785of our country. And I know the folks in Colorado, that is an4786important issue for them, as well.4787    So, with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back my time.4788    Mr. Taylor. The gentleman yields.4789    Mr. Moulton.4790    Mr. Moulton. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.4791    Mr. Feigenbaum--did I pronounce that correctly, sir?4792    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes, you did. Thank you.4793    Mr. Moulton. Okay. Mr. Feigenbaum, you argue that4794congestion pricing in New York City hasn't been effective,4795claiming that the plan is primarily designed to generate money4796instead of effectively managing traffic congestion. However,4797you say that London and Stockholm have, in contrast,4798implemented successful congestion pricing programs.4799    So could you explain how New York should modify its4800congestion pricing program to be successful?4801    Mr. Feigenbaum. Sure. So, in my view, the problems with the4802New York City congestion pricing are twofold.4803    The first is that, instead of setting the tolls actually to4804relieve congestion and manage the roadways, they were set at an4805arbitrary limit to raise money for MTA. And I understand that4806MTA has needs, but if you are going to have a successful4807program, that is not really the way to do it.4808    The other challenge that I see is that almost all of the4809money is going toward transit. And I think if you are tolling4810motorists, some of the money needs to go to roadways. Now, in4811Manhattan, that is likely to be operational improvements or4812turn lanes. Obviously, adding new lanes is not a great idea.4813And, still, most of the money makes sense to go to transit4814because Manhattan is unique in having such a high transit share4815in the country.4816    But I think those two solutions, one of which I think4817Secretary Duffy stated, would be how I would modify it.4818    Mr. Moulton. Since the 1950s, the American taxpayer has4819given enormous subsidies to people who drive, and many cities4820don't have any transit alternatives whatsoever. Certainly,4821there has been a lot more driving, road infrastructure built in4822and around New York City in the last 70 years than transit4823infrastructure. The transit system is basically the same as it4824was 100 years ago.4825    Do you think that that was correct in the past, where4826taxpayers who used the subway subsidized building highways?4827    Mr. Feigenbaum. Well, I would say that I am generally4828against subsidies in all cases. But transit needs some4829subsidies, I realize, and they should be focused on the4830transit-dependent.4831    I wouldn't necessarily view the gas tax as a subsidy,4832because that is something that is actually being paid by the4833motorists. And I wouldn't necessarily view tolls, which New4834York City has, as a subsidy either. So I think it might come4835down to how ``subsidy'' is defined.4836    Mr. Moulton. Right, but--I would agree with you on the gas4837tax. And I think tolls are a great example as well. But, of4838course, every single year, we transfer billions of dollars from4839the general taxpayer fund to the Highway Trust Fund because gas4840taxes and tolls do not cover the cost.4841    I actually asked Harvard Kennedy School to look at just the4842total cost of the vehicle economy just in Massachusetts. And4843they did a 2019 study that said that the total cost is about4844$64.1 billion in Massachusetts, which equates to about $14,0004845for every family in Massachusetts, whether or not they own a4846car.4847    So every family is paying $14,000 just to subsidize4848driving, and yet they don't get any--it is still more expensive4849to take a train into the center of Boston than it is to drive.4850Does that make sense? Does that help congestion?4851    Mr. Feigenbaum. Well, I guess my recommendation is that we4852do need to look at new user-pay revenue sources.4853    And you are right that the general fund transfers are a4854problem and they are unfair, and I don't think they should4855continue. And there has been, different--increased use of4856tolling, some type of mileage-based fee that have been looked4857at, floated.4858    I don't think we are there, but we need to start getting4859aggressive in terms of finding a solution, because, obviously,4860with the next reauthorization on the horizon, the revenue4861problems are a problem.4862    Mr. Moulton. The revenues problems are going to get worst4863with electric vehicles, which actually cause more damage to our4864highways because they are so heavy.4865    How do you think that should be addressed?4866    Mr. Feigenbaum. I think electric vehicles should be paying4867a fee. In many States, they pay anywhere from $200 to $300,4868some less in some places. And perhaps also looking at hybrids.4869    Mileage fees over the long term would make that a little4870simpler, because you wouldn't have separate revenue streams.4871But for right now and as a priority for the next surface4872transportation bill, I absolutely think electric vehicles4873should be paying a fee to use roads.4874    Mr. Moulton. There are a lot of countries that look at4875transportation problems and do a business case analysis and try4876to determine, is it more efficient to solve this problem with4877roads or building rail or building some other type of system?4878In America, we pretty much just subsidize airports and roads.4879    Is there some vast rail conspiracy that infects all of Asia4880and Europe, or are there actually cases where it just makes4881more economic sense to build rail as an alternative?4882    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes, I think it has to do with where it4883makes more economic sense.4884    I mean, we have an example in New York City, even though4885our costs are out of control. Part of my testimony I didn't4886mention was that the cost to build a kilometer of rail in New4887York is something like 10 times----4888    Mr. Moulton [interposing]. Right.4889    Mr. Feigenbaum [continuing]. What it would be in other4890developed places.4891    But it's also density, it's urban, it's employment, it's4892residential location. It's a number of factors that in most4893U.S. cities cause rail not to make the most sense.4894    Mr. Moulton. I would just point out that, if you look4895around the globe where they are actually making these economic-4896based decisions, there are a lot of cities comparable in size4897to many other cities around the United States where rail makes4898sense.4899    You could build brandnew highways in Austin and inspire the4900kind of sprawling development that you have there, or you could4901build a rail system just like they did in New York City and you4902might get more density. A lot of advantages to that as well.4903    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4904    Mr. Taylor. Mr. McDowell.4905    Mr. McDowell. Thank you, Chairman.4906    Public transportation has received more Federal funding4907since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic than at any point4908in American history. Emergency relief packages from 2020 to49092021 spent a cumulative $70 billion on the Nation's public4910transportation systems, while the 2021 IIJA authorized a4911staggering $108 billion for transit programs. Put simply, the4912transit sector has received a massive infusion of taxpayer4913dollars over the past couple years.4914    Despite this historic investment, ridership rates continue4915to decline, and costs poured into operating and maintaining4916transit systems are infrequently recovered.4917    As this committee considers the future of public transit4918funding, I believe that we must find ways to stop the bleeding.4919I thank the witnesses for testifying before the subcommittee4920today, and I look forward to discussing creative solutions to4921the current problems facing the public transit sector.4922    Mr. Booterbaugh, in your testimony, you describe how4923contracted service worked to restore monthly ridership in4924Durham, North Carolina.4925    In your opinion, how can public transit entities coordinate4926with the private sector to improve both services and safety in4927a way that is financially sustainable in the long term? And,4928specifically, what do private-sector partners and operators4929bring to the table that can help improve transit efficiencies?4930    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes. Thank you for the question.4931    I think in the case of Durham, it is an interesting, kind4932of, use case. Because, in Durham, as we are carrying out, kind4933of, the vision for service for the agency, they come to us and4934kind of share what that vision looks like, and then we go to4935work in terms of finding more efficient ways for them to4936execute that.4937    And, many times, it comes down to simply a question of4938resources. A lot of the agencies are resource-strained. They4939bring in a private operator to really help kind of reassess4940what is needed to move forward. And we help them to look for4941ways to run service more efficiently, to invest in safety4942programs that, at the end of the day, mean that we are running4943a more reliable and safe service.4944    So these are all things that we do as we come to the table4945and, kind of, partner with our agency customers to better equip4946them to carry out what they see in the future.4947    Specific to ridership, I think, in Durham, the focus that4948they had there was trying to figure out how to serve the needs4949of an evolving community. So not just simply running services4950that have always been run in the past, but looking at who are4951the people in the community that are most dependent on public4952transit, who are those that they could maybe work with to coax4953away from their cars, and come up with innovative new programs4954and coverage models that help drive that ridership.4955    And so I think that is really the key for agencies, is4956really being in a position where they take a step back and take4957a look at the broader landscape of what the needs of the4958community are and then figure out, from a multimodal4959standpoint, how can they serve those needs better in the4960future.4961    Mr. McDowell. Gotcha. Thank you.4962    Ms. Cline, as discussed earlier, transit programs have4963received nearly $180 billion over the past few years.4964    In the previous administration, the FTA tacked on4965gratuitous environmental justice criteria for many of the4966funding notices which had nothing to do with the agency's4967mission of improving reliable transit service. Prioritizing4968green investments, in my opinion, does little to help with4969transit ridership levels or efficiency.4970    In your opinion, how can Congress get the biggest bang for4971its buck when in comes to Federal investments in transit4972infrastructure?4973    Ms. Cline. Thank you for the interesting question.4974    I think that we all, especially rural agencies, are facing4975multiple challenges already, without the multitude of ones that4976you discussed initially in your question.4977    So, are all of those regulations really necessary for4978agencies receiving under a certain dollar amount--let's say, $14979million or even $10 million? Most rural agencies don't get that4980much.4981    So, again, it is one of those right-sizing regulations to4982fit the type of agency. And I think one of the most fair ways4983is to do it by the dollar amount that an agency receives, and4984leave the rest of it up to the State to monitor.4985    Mr. McDowell. Gotcha. Thank you.4986    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.4987    Mr. Bresnahan [presiding]. Mr. Cohen.4988    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.4989    Project 2025, which we know is the Constitution of this4990administration, although never read by President Trump--nor has4991he read the Bible or any other major publications or books in4992his life--proposes that we eliminate all Federal support for4993transit.4994    Mr. Regan, how would that affect most major cities in the4995United States? Most people that depend on public ridership,4996poor people that don't have cars that need to get work, get to4997a hospital, get to the grocery store, get to the drug store,4998how would that affect them and affect their lives?4999    Mr. Regan. I think it would grind transportation in major5000cities to a halt. I think people would be unable to get to5001their place of employment. They would be unable to get to5002hospitals, grocery stores, to all the things that people like5003living in a city for.5004    Mr. Cohen. So it would be like most of the other things5005that Project 2025 is about--giving to the rich, the powerful,5006the ones with much money----5007    Mr. Regan [interposing]. Mm-hmm.5008    Mr. Cohen [continuing]. And give them tax breaks, and not5009do anything for the poor people that are paying a burden right5010now?5011    Mr. Regan. It would certainly have a disproportionate harm5012on people who rely on public transit or people who are lower5013income, communities of color. There are a lot of areas who rely5014more disproportionately on public transit who would be hurt the5015most by this type of decision.5016    Mr. Cohen. Mr. Ford, how would this affect folks in5017Jacksonville?5018    Mr. Ford. It would be devastating to Jacksonville on a5019daily basis. We carry nearly 23,000 riders on a daily basis.5020The vast majority are individuals who are going to work to5021support our community, support our economy and the healthcare5022industry, for example--we noticed that during COVID-19--nurses5023and support personnel that were supporting our medical5024facilities.5025    So any suspension of Federal funding for public transit5026would be devastating to Jacksonville and our industry overall,5027as well as the private sector that actually benefits from the5028investment that comes from the Federal Government.5029    Mr. Cohen. Mr. Ford, you have worked in other cities, I5030presume?5031    Mr. Ford. Yes, sir.5032    Mr. Cohen. And what are some of those cities?5033    Mr. Ford. I started my career with the New York City5034transit system as a train conductor, then worked for the BART5035system in the bay area. I joined the MARTA system after the50361996 Olympics, served as their CEO, then served as the CEO of5037the San Francisco MTA. And now I have the honor of serving in5038Jacksonville, Florida.5039    Mr. Cohen. You have had quite a career. Congratulations.5040You have come a long way.5041    Mr. Ford. Thank you.5042    Mr. Cohen. All those cities would be affected as well, New5043York especially, I guess, and San Francisco as well?5044    Mr. Ford. It would be devastating to those cities. They5045would not survive that type of funding loss.5046    Mr. Cohen. Ms. Cline, you represent rural areas; you are a5047rural area. But would that not hurt your area and other rural5048areas as well?5049    Ms. Cline. Thank you. And, yes, it would be devastating for5050us, because we already operate on a shoestring. So, lack of5051funding would definitely make a difference to the many people5052that we serve.5053    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Ms. Cline.5054    I have sponsored, with Congressman Hank Johnson of Atlanta,5055the Stronger Communities Through Better Transit Act. That would5056allow funds to go to operating expenses as well as capital5057expenses.5058    Mr. Regan, would that be helpful to most major city5059transportation authorities?5060    Mr. Regan. It would, yes. It would be very helpful.5061    And think about, also, what that operating expenses--what5062that assistance allows people to do. There has been a lot of5063talk about safety here, for example. Most of our safety5064initiatives, whether it be camera systems--transit ambassadors5065are a really important part of that, who are our eyes and ears5066on the ground and also help with fare collection; whether it be5067security personnel in those areas.5068    So, by not allowing the flexibility, by dedicating most of5069it towards capital expenses and not providing operating5070assistance, we are hindering a lot of the things that allow our5071transit systems to grow, to thrive, to meet the needs of our5072communities, and to meet the expectations of the riders.5073    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.5074    Mr. Ford, would you have anything to add to that?5075    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.5076    I just want to reiterate the importance of Federal funding,5077not just to move the people in our communities, but also the5078downstream impact it would have to the private sector and5079particularly in communities that are supplying parts for our5080transit systems, our rolling stock, our infrastructure. While5081they may not have a major transit system in their community,5082they may have a major manufacturing facility that is supported5083and providing jobs to people in their community--leaders in5084their community.5085    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.5086    Mr.--``Faygenbaum''? ``Figenbaum''?5087    Mr. Feigenbaum. ``Figenbaum.''5088    Mr. Cohen. Mr. Feigenbaum, Reason Magazine and Reason5089Foundation prides themselves on supporting the rule of law. How5090have you seen the rule of law being damaged and potentially5091destroyed by this administration?5092    Mr. Feigenbaum. Well, I think it is maybe good that I am5093out of time, because that is a very----5094    Mr. Cohen [interrupting]. You are not out of time. You can5095respond.5096    Mr. Feigenbaum. That is a challenging question.5097    I think that obligations--let's talk transportation,5098because that is what I know best. Obligations from a previous5099transportation bill should----5100    Mr. Cohen [interrupting]. No, let's talk rule of law.5101    Mr. Feigenbaum. Well, I don't think anyone is above the5102Constitution or the rule of law. So all laws should be5103followed, all policies should be followed, period.5104    Mr. Bresnahan. Time has expired.5105    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.5106    Thank you.5107    Mr. Bresnahan. The gentleman yields.5108    Mr. Taylor.5109    Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member Norton,5110for holding this hearing today.5111    And thank you to our witnesses for their time and testimony5112and insight. I appreciate that very much.5113    I represent a very rural area. Some of my constituents5114utilize public transportation to commute to work, doctor's5115appointments, school, or to visit family, but very few.5116    I am excited to work with members of this committee to5117ensure our transit systems are safe and efficiently utilize5118Federal funding. Essentially, we have the privilege, in my5119district, of paying for public transport with our tax dollars;5120we just, by and large, don't get any of the benefit. So I do5121encourage Secretary Duffy to continue taking a close look at5122how these cities are funded and make sure that those dollars5123are being spent efficiently.5124    And if the justification for the wealth transfer from rural5125America to urban America is that there are communities there5126that are underserved, I would point out that 9 of the 205127poorest counties in Ohio are in my district, and 4 of the top51285. And we need to get places, too, of course.5129    We would like to see urban transit run more like a5130business. Certainly, with the ridership they see, it definitely5131could be improved upon. And we have heard some today about the5132lack of enforcement of rules, because they know that the5133dollars are coming no matter what.5134    Ms. Cline, I appreciate your hard work in the area of rural5135transportation and serving rural communities. Are there any5136rules and procedures under the Federal Transit Administration5137that affect rural areas disproportionately compared to urban5138areas, in your opinion?5139    Ms. Cline. Well, I think one of the major ones is the5140operating expense for the rurals. We pay a 50-percent match for5141our operating fees, where many of the larger systems are only5142paying 20 percent. To right-size that and allow us to pay 20-5143percent operating instead of 50 would be a huge saving and5144would allow us to put additional services on the street.5145    And you will be happy to know that we have always run our5146system as a business. We are not a nonprofit; we are a5147business. And if we don't make the dollars, we can't support5148our system. And for 36 years, I have been an important part of5149a lot of people's lives, including my drivers and staff. I want5150to make sure those people have a livelihood to come to every5151day.5152    Mr. Taylor. It seems like, in rural areas, if you can't5153make the numbers work, you don't get to do it, right? The5154dollars are not coming from anywhere else.5155    There has been a lot said about how public transport is 105156times safer than traveling in your private vehicle. Can someone5157explain to me, is that just injuries and fatalities from5158accidents, or are you suggesting that I am 10 times less likely5159to be robbed, raped, or assaulted in my car than I am on a bus?5160    Anybody want to----5161    Mr. Feigenbaum [interrupting]. My understanding is, that5162has to do with the accident rate----5163    Mr. Taylor [interposing]. Okay.5164    Mr. Feigenbaum [continuing]. Of being in a vehicle. It5165doesn't have to do with the actual crime itself.5166    Mr. Taylor. It has been conflated with crime all day, that5167it is 10 times safer to travel on public transportation than it5168is in your car, whereas--and then we will say--we will refer to5169the crime rate.5170    You are much more susceptible to crime, would we all agree,5171on a bus or a subway than you are in your private vehicle?5172Anybody disagree with that? Just--we will make it quick. Raise5173your hand if you disagree.5174    [No show of hands.]5175    The American people are tired of Federal funds being5176wasted. When Congress appropriates funds, they should be spent5177effectively and provide a good return on investment for5178taxpayers.5179    Mr. Feigenbaum, what changes should Congress implement to5180improve transit operations?5181    Mr. Feigenbaum. Well, I think the first change that I would5182say is, allow or maybe require some of the funding for capital5183to go to operations. One of the challenges that we have had is,5184in the last surface transportation reauthorization bill, there5185were 101 discretionary grant programs, which is basically5186taking money away from you and giving it to the executive to5187use as they see fit. Now, in theory, if that is used on a5188quantitative, cost-benefit basis, that could be okay, but, in5189my view, it wasn't. And so reducing that to one would be good.5190    I would also like to see metrics in terms of on-time5191performance, in terms of transit safety, in terms of ridership5192experience, in terms of making sure that the miles covered with5193the routes offered makes sense. So I think actually building in5194some more metrics to the system is the way to go.5195    Mr. Taylor. Thank you all for being here today.5196    Chairman, I yield back.5197    Mr. Bresnahan. The gentleman yields.5198    Ms. Titus.5199    Ms. Titus. Thank you.5200    We have heard a lot about safety today and a lot about5201cost. I would like to talk about reliability, because that5202relates to both of those other two things.5203    I represent Las Vegas, and we are in the desert. We had a5204120-degree record temperature last summer. Extreme heat is one5205of the challenges that face public transit reliability, because5206you have frequent vehicle breakdowns because of the extreme,5207harsh environmental conditions.5208    Now, the agency in my district that deals with this, the5209RTC--Mr. Ford, we know some folks in common there--they have5210advocated for increasing the Federal spare ratio from 205211percent to 30 percent of the bus fleet. If you do that, that5212would allow quicker deployment of replacement vehicles during5213the summer months.5214    Mr. Ford, would you support the FTA reviewing that spare5215ratio requirement? And tell us a little bit about how that5216might grant greater flexibility, increased reliability, and be5217something that encourages ridership because you know the bus is5218going to come and it is going to come at a certain time.5219    Mr. Ford. Thank you for that question.5220    And the most important aspect, obviously, is safety, but5221next to that is reliability of our systems and our schedules5222and the amount of service that we provide.5223    All of our communities are uniquely different in terms of5224the miles that we cover and serve, the climate that we operate5225in. So Chicago is vastly different than what I experience in5226Florida. So I think, depending on climate, I think an5227examination of spare ratios based on that is appropriate.5228    I think, at this juncture, we have to recognize one size5229doesn't fit all in all of our communities, based on climate,5230range of operation, the duty cycle of our vehicles. Your duty5231cycle for your vehicles and your service may be much more5232intense than that bus operating in Jacksonville, Florida, as a5233comparison.5234    Ms. Titus. Ms. Cline, wouldn't that be the case comparing5235urban to rural transit as well?5236    Ms. Cline. Yes. And I believe in a higher ratio than we can5237currently have. We also fight the extreme cold, so we get both5238ends of the spectrum. So we might start our day with all of our5239buses housed, which hasn't always been the case, but midday or5240after the lunchtime, you might see vehicles that are showing5241some signs of stress, and having that extra spare ratio to5242deploy is very important.5243    As, I guess, an aside, because we have bus facilities in5244eight communities, we have to keep spare ratio in each of those5245communities as well. So that ups the need for us to have a5246little higher spare ratio as well.5247    Thank you.5248    Ms. Titus. As we look at this transit bill--I mean, the5249highway bill, I think we should take that into account as5250something to recommend.5251    Also, when you have the Federal funding and you have to5252supplement it with the State or local money and the farebox,5253sometimes it is just keeping the buses running. You don't have5254anything left over for modernizing or for equipping in some5255special way.5256    Maybe you all could--anybody could talk about this: what we5257could do to make the ride better, whether it is accommodating5258the disabled, whether it is a creative program where you hook5259with Wi-Fi to the local library system, something like that,5260that gets people on the bus and makes it safer but makes it5261more pleasant.5262    Could anybody talk about that?5263    Mr. Ford.5264    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.5265    Our agencies across the country, recognizing the shortage5266of customers right after the pandemic, have been working very5267hard to, what we call, upgrade the customer experience--5268everything from Wi-Fi on our buses, charging ports on our buses5269so people can charge their mobile device on our buses,5270upgrading the bus shelters and bus facilities or train stations5271where people are actually congregating waiting for a bus.5272    I know, in my system alone, what we are doing is planting5273trees in and around the bus shelters to ensure that our5274passengers have a shaded area, along with all of the other5275benefits of real-time passenger information so a person doesn't5276walk out to a bus stop and wonder when that next bus is5277arriving; they know wirelessly on their personal device, or5278they are able to look at a stanchion with some type of public5279information related to bus schedules.5280    So a great deal of work that is occurring to improve the5281customer experience inside the vehicle as well as off the5282vehicle in terms of passenger information.5283    Our app is called the MyJTA app, and you can pay your fare.5284You could actually also see when your actual bus is arriving at5285your stop.5286    Ms. Titus. Shade is very important in hot weather. And----5287    Mr. Ford [interrupting]. We are finding that----5288    Ms. Titus [continuing]. Also just moving the bus stop back5289a few feet makes it much safer and much less likely to be hit5290by a car, and that is accommodating some need. So----5291    Mr. Ford [interposing]. Exactly.5292    Ms. Titus [continuing]. We need to look at the whole5293picture, I think, to increase that ridership.5294    Mr. Ford. Yes, ma'am.5295    Ms. Titus. All right. Well, thank you----5296    Ms. Cline [interrupting]. And I will follow up with you on5297some ideas that work for us.5298    Ms. Titus. Great. Thank you. I would appreciate that.5299    I yield back.5300    Mr. Bresnahan. The gentlelady yields.5301    And I would now like to recognize myself.5302    I want to use my brief remarks and questions to highlight5303the work done by transit workers. Moving millions of people5304each day is no small feat, nor is maintaining and repairing5305fleets of buses, trains, and ferries.5306    During COVID, transit workers were truly essential workers,5307moving other essential workers like doctors, nurses, and those5308in the service industry to and from work. The CDC found that,5309in California, bus and transit workers were 5.2 times more5310likely to contract COVID. An NYU survey found that 24 percent5311of New York City buses and subway workers contracted COVID in53122020.5313    Post-COVID, there has been a surge in crime on transit5314systems. Transit workers have sadly become victims to5315criminals.5316    Public transit employees receive 13(c) protections under5317the Urban Mass Transportation Act. This includes protection5318against worsening of positions in relation to employment,5319continuing of collective bargaining agreements, and paid5320training and retraining programs. My family company was a union5321shop, and I understand and appreciate the value that organized5322labor can bring to an organization.5323    My first question, for Mr. Regan: As transit workers have5324experienced and dealt with COVID and its aftermath--funding5325insecurities and an increased cost in contract services--how5326have 13(c) protections ensured that transit workers remain as5327essential partners to our Nation's transit systems?5328    Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question.5329    I mean, put simply, 13(c) makes sure that people can't use5330Federal funds to undermine the existing workforce and their job5331qualities and their wages. It makes sure that we are5332maintaining a qualified level of worker and one where they are5333being fairly compensated to do that work.5334    Mr. Bresnahan. Is there anything specifically that you saw5335over time begin to erode out of those programs, one more so5336than another?5337    Mr. Regan. Not necessarily.5338    Obviously, during COVID, everything was under strain. We5339still haven't recovered all the way back from ridership levels.5340But you are right, the busdrivers, the transit operators, the5341maintenance workers, they were in harm's way just by going to5342work. They didn't have the luxury that many of us did to work5343behind a computer screen.5344    But what was really critical to all of that, as well, is,5345for the first time, with our aid programs to transportation5346systems--and this wasn't just transit; this was true with5347Amtrak and airlines as well--was, we ensured that all of that5348money went toward payroll and benefits to the workers so we5349could maintain service and reliability of these systems.5350    And that was true--like, that was vitally true for the5351people who relied on those services during the pandemic--5352healthcare workers, grocery store workers, things like that.5353But it was more important because we knew it was going to end5354at some point, we were going to come out of it, and we needed a5355workforce there that was ready to be able to meet the needs5356when demand surged back. And I thought that was incredibly5357successful.5358    I do think we need to go further, certainly on operating5359assistance flexibility, so how we can use Federal funds more5360effectively to meet the needs. But certainly the labor5361protections tied to COVID funding and then on top of our5362existing 13(c) protections meant that our systems were able to5363rebound pretty quickly coming out of the pandemic.5364    Mr. Bresnahan. Thank you for that.5365    Mr. Booterbaugh, are there particular services or5366transportation modes within transit systems where contracting5367with private partners can offer a significant benefit or5368operational efficiencies?5369    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes. Thank you for the question.5370    Yes, I think in general terms, when you bring a private5371contractor into the mix, they are looking at what the short-5372and long-range plans are for any given agency, what multimodal5373approach that they want to take, and they are figuring out how5374can we run it most efficiently, most effectively, not just from5375an operations standpoint, but from a safety perspective, from5376the perspective of training employees, making sure that they5377have a clear path for succession and career development.5378    These are all the things that a private operator brings to5379the table.5380    Mr. Bresnahan. Are there any glaring efficiency changes5381that could be brought forward by Congress or ways that we could5382implement more efficient ways to deliver?5383    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes, I mean, in my opening, you may5384remember that I talked a little bit about the contracting5385itself. So I think we, as NATA, we feel like there is an5386opportunity to encourage agencies to look at private5387contracting as an option that is more viable for them.5388    Today, about 50 percent of agencies are contracting in some5389form or fashion. That could mean a small portion of the5390service; it could mean all of the service. We would really like5391to see agencies be encouraged to look at the opportunity for5392our members to participate in RFPs for services that don't5393exist today.5394    Mr. Bresnahan. Thank you for that.5395    I yield the remaining 12 seconds.5396    And to Ms. Pou.5397    Ms. Pou. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5398    Let me just begin with saying that, with nearly 40,0005399zero-vehicle households in my district, the safety,5400reliability, and efficiency of accessible transportation is a5401core priority for my constituents. Our transit workers provide5402vital services to our communities and offer an increasingly5403safe mode of transportation.5404    I look forward to working with my colleagues to find5405commonsense solutions to address transportation safety,5406staffing, and reliability challenges and to rebuild the public5407confidence in our system.5408    With that being said, Mr. Regan and Mr.--``Figenbaum''? How5409do you say it?5410    Mr. Feigenbaum. ``Figenbaum.''5411    Ms. Pou. ``Figenbaum.'' Okay, good. Thank you.5412    As we look to improve passenger safety, what challenges do5413you face in using Federal funding to support security measures5414like cameras or improved lighting? And what solutions would you5415propose to address the Federal restrictions regarding funding5416transit operations?5417    Mr. Regan.5418    Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question.5419    First of all, I think a lot of the programs that improve5420security and safety on board would be considered--they would5421fall under operating costs, which are not allowed for5422communities over 200,000 people. All of that Federal funding5423has to go towards capital costs.5424    So, when you are talking about transit ambassadors,5425security cameras, better doors and entranceways, all of that is5426coming through operating assistance costs. If we can change the5427Federal law to make it available for those purposes--and I5428think that is a really important part.5429    As I said earlier, there are going to be situations where a5430local transit agency needs capital assistance so they can buy5431new buses, upgrade their equipment, do that. There are also5432going to be situations where transit operators do not need new5433capital expenses; they need operating assistance so they can5434maintain routes or grow service. Or, in this example of the5435World Cup, they have a big operational need coming right now,5436and they are going to need some assistance to be able to meet5437the flow of people.5438    So how we structure these programs to make sure that5439agencies can apply for the type of funding they need is going5440to be an important part of how we move forward in transit in5441this country.5442    Ms. Pou. Thank you for that.5443    Let me just say--and then I definitely want to hear the5444gentleman's response to my question--I think that is vitally5445important, especially when my State, the State of New Jersey,5446is indeed going to be one of those States that will be hosting5447the World Cup.5448    So having the ability to have those transportation5449operations in place and having the wherewithal to do that in a5450safe and reliable manner will be critically important, not only5451to my State, but throughout various other States in the5452country, but especially within my district, where the World Cup5453is actually going to take effect, back in New Jersey.5454    Thank you.5455    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes. So I would say, it comes down to, in5456some ways, how money is being spent, and I think it also goes5457to the capital costs.5458    Which is that, one of the problems with building new5459systems, in addition to the fact that that is obviously eating5460up revenue, is that it is kind of taking the focus away from5461the nuts and bolts. And the nuts and bolts--I mean, nothing is5462more vital than safety. We say that in roadways; that is true5463in transit.5464    And so there has to be a little bit more dedication, I5465think, of funding. I don't think that is something there is5466much opposition to.5467    I would also say, we have been talking about cameras, there5468has been talk about barriers for the drivers, we have talked a5469little bit about higher fare gates on rail systems, which tends5470to deter people that are not doing there, and we have talked5471about a viable police system. And there might be some new5472creative ways that other transit agencies are working with, but5473I would certainly start with those four.5474    Ms. Pou. Thank you. Thank you so very much.5475    And thank you, Mr. Feigenbaum. And I am sorry I5476mispronounced your name at the very beginning.5477    I know that my time is coming to a very quick close. Let me5478just thank you both.5479    Very quickly, moving on to our community needs, Mr.5480Booterbaugh and Ms. Cline, very quickly, what can the committee5481do to further improve transit services that provide people with5482access to the necessities like grocery stores, schools, and5483medical care?5484    Ms. Cline. Thank you.5485    Just keep funding us. We will make sure they get to the5486grocery store and to school.5487    Ms. Pou. Thank you.5488    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes, no, I agree. I agree.5489    Ms. Pou. Okay. That was an easy enough answer. Thank you so5490very much.5491    Thank you to all the witnesses. I really appreciate the5492time and the information that you have all provided. I look5493forward to working together to support our transportation5494systems in this Congress.5495    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.5496    Dr. Van Drew [presiding]. The gentlelady yields.5497    And I recognize the gentleman from Utah.5498    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you, Mr. Chair Pro Tem Van Drew.5499I appreciate your allowance of my opportunity to visit with5500these witnesses.5501    And thank you for your testimony today. I appreciate your5502expertise and the ways you have responded to our questions.5503    Just last week, I hosted a meeting between Utah State5504leadership and our Federal delegation, and one thing was very5505clear: Utah consistently gets things done, and we do it faster,5506cheaper, and more efficiently than the Federal Government. I5507believe that applies to my witnesses at the table as well.5508    During a recent visit to Utah, Secretary Duffy had the5509chance to see our transit system in action, and he shared that5510Utah is doing it the right way.5511    Utah's dynamic and growing transit system, including the5512FrontRunner commuter rail, has relied on support from programs5513like the Capital Investment Grant program. These investments5514allow Utah to address current transit demands while laying the5515groundwork for long-term and sustainable growth.5516    Utah is doing its part to make every Federal dollar count.5517However, in order to help States do what they do best, the5518Federal Government needs to become a better partner, one that5519empowers local decisionmaking rather than creating unnecessary5520obstacles.5521    That starts with rolling back outdated regulatory hurdles,5522like the duplicative NEPA process, that slow down progress and5523drive up costs.5524    So, to all of the panelists, and if you would be willing--5525and I will start with Mr. Ford, followed by Ms. Cline, Mr.5526Booterbaugh, Mr. Feigenbaum, and Mr. Regan--I just wanted to5527say those names, by the way. They are really impressive names.5528A few of you carry some really interesting names along the way.5529    So this question is for all of you, if you would be willing5530to take a moment just to answer this.5531    Time is money, and that is especially true when it comes to5532infrastructure. Redtape and delays don't just stall projects;5533they raise costs and limit access.5534    So, to reduce costs and keep projects on schedule, are5535there specific aspects of the FTA's NEPA process that you5536believe are redundant or unnecessarily burdensome? And I would5537appreciate if the panel could identify specific areas for5538reform.5539    Mr. Ford, if you would start.5540    Mr. Ford. Clearly, as it relates to NEPA, we would like to5541have parity or comparability to what is happening with the5542Federal Highway Administration within the FTA.5543    The challenge of not being able to secure right-of-way in5544advance of going through the full NEPA process creates a5545challenge for us and actually increases the cost of the project5546and slows down the, kind of, preliminary steps to get a5547successful project launched.5548    And so we are not asking for a totally new policy, but5549looking at just comparable policy to what is being done by the5550Federal Highway Administration.5551    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you very much.5552    Ms. Cline.5553    Ms. Cline. And I echo what Mr. Ford said. And we have5554projects that it has held up because of the NEPA process. Small5555agencies in particular, going back to that 4 administrative5556staff to my total program of 60, that is huge for us, when we5557have that holdup. So make us comparable.5558    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you.5559    Mr. Booterbaugh.5560    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes. As a private operator, we don't5561really receive any proceeds directly. But just from an indirect5562perspective, I mean, the ability for there to be more5563flexibility in Federal dollars being spent both on5564infrastructure as well as operating costs will be very5565impactful for our customers. So--yes.5566    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you.5567    Mr. Feigenbaum.5568    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes. I would say, NEPA is basically a part5569of streamlining of environmental reviews. We have processes in5570this country where it can take 8, 10 years----5571    Dr. Kennedy of Utah [interposing]. Wow.5572    Mr. Feigenbaum [continuing]. Depending on--and other5573countries do it in half the time at half the cost, and we are5574not really helping the environment.5575    So we need to look at this bureaucratic mess that we've5576sort out and streamline it so we can get these projects done5577more cheaply and quickly.5578    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you.5579    Mr. Regan.5580    Mr. Regan. I agree that we--and not just in transit, but in5581transportation broadly--we need to figure out a way to better5582speed up project delivery.5583    And I think that also enables you all, in making the laws,5584also to talk about, we are making investments in our5585communities because people see the results more quickly. They5586see investments in their communities, they see expansion of5587lines, they see all that stuff.5588    But I also think, going back to what we were saying5589earlier, on the difference between operating and capital and5590providing more flexibility to meet communities where they are5591and what they need and reforming our programs so that the5592agencies, the communities themselves, can make the decisions5593about what are most needed for their systems. And I think there5594is a great opportunity coming up to do just that.5595    Dr. Kennedy of Utah. Thank you very much.5596    Mr. Chair Pro Tem, I yield back. Thank you.5597    Dr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields back.5598    I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. DeSaulnier.5599    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5600    I want to thank the witnesses.5601    Challenging times, particularly the last 5 years, in5602transit. I represent a district in the East Bay, the San5603Francisco Bay area. It is home to 4 of the 10 mega-commutes in5604the United States. We still have a car culture. So trying to5605get people--our density is up, so the model is better in the5606suburbs where I represent that we have done on land use--but5607trying to get people consistently to use BART, in particular,5608and connect to the other agencies.5609    But we have a lot of people who like remote work and their5610employers do. So San Francisco is about 50-percent vacancy,5611with what is happening today in the tech industry in Silicon5612Valley as we build out the system to there.5613    I wanted to ask you, starting with Mr. Ford, and Mr. Regan5614maybe follow up.5615    We have done all the right stuff. I think BART is--we have5616put the fare gates in. It is safer. They are not dealing with5617as much of the social problems, but they still are. But there5618is wonderful opportunity, at least in our area, and similar to5619Boston and DC, where the employers and the workforce get good5620productivity from people staying home. Getting them in the5621office 3 days a week is a huge change for us, but it is a5622challenge for transit.5623    So how do we adapt to that, sort of accept best practices,5624between COVID, now the economy, and particularly demographics,5625where the employers, like Salesforce--Salesforce is one of our5626biggest employers--they are cutting office space, and they have5627found, with fairly robust oversight, that they get value as5628employers with their workforce if they can stay home.5629    And the difference in people's quality of life in two-5630income households who are spending an hour and a half either on5631transit or driving is really significant.5632    So how can we keep you going and get ridership up, but also5633take the benefit of getting people to be productive but, at5634least one of those two incomes, to be able to stay home with5635their kids and still be of greater value, really, 2 days a week5636than they would be if they were commuting long times into San5637Francisco or Silicon Valley or Manhattan or 128 or downtown5638Boston or in your area?5639    Mr. Ford. Well, thank you for the question.5640    First, I would say that, yes, there has been a change in5641terms of the core ridership for public transportation. And so5642the backbone had been those home-to-work trips. At my own5643property, one of the things we have seen is a lot of5644discretionary trips and trips that might not be as long but5645shorter within a community, in terms of actual trips. And so5646that has led us to redesigning our route structure and also5647looking at microtransit as an alternative.5648    I would also add, though, we are starting to see increases5649each year, year over year, and that ridership seems to be5650coming back as it relates to some of the return-to-work5651directives that are occurring by corporations, where, yes,5652there is a work-life balance, clearly, with people being able5653to work from home, but there also may be a loss of productivity5654by not having individuals in the office being able to5655collaborate and work together.5656    So I think, over the next few years, we are going to have5657to continue to examine these travel patterns that may not be5658work-related, but they may be recreation-related or they may be5659other necessities around healthcare and things of that nature.5660So we will still have to examine those patterns going forward.5661    Mr. DeSaulnier. So, Mr. Regan, how do we support your5662members, who are hard-working in difficult circumstances, but5663the people who are commuting they are serving also are hard-5664working?5665    Mr. Regan. They are. And I think it is important to5666evaluate the commuting patterns or the travel patterns of each5667individual city, and I don't think any of them are going to be5668exactly the same. There needs to be flexibility within the5669Federal-aid programs, where agencies can apply for what they5670need, to identify what their commuting needs are going forward.5671    But I also think we can't abandon those core users who rely5672on that so critically to keep our cities and our communities5673moving. And that includes people who are transit-dependent,5674whether you are in a city where it is just not plausible to own5675a car or you can't physically drive. And we also have people5676that rely on it for different types of jobs, whether you work5677in healthcare, whether you work in grocery stores.5678    So we can't abandon the core users while also identifying5679where there are opportunities for growth.5680    Mr. DeSaulnier. And I just--one last comment on the5681previous questions, and if you could respond, Mr. Regan,5682briefly.5683    As BART has built out our long-term project to get BART to5684Silicon Valley, with all the changes, the procurement process5685has been gamed, and it is way over budget.5686    And maybe just a comment, following your previous comments.5687    Mr. Regan. Again, I think project delivery is something5688that we need to figure out collectively in a way that is not5689going to sacrifice safety of the people actually doing the work5690and also not sacrifice environmental values. But there are5691certainly ways that we can do that better.5692    And the labor movement is ready to be a partner in all of5693that, as well.5694    Mr. DeSaulnier. I know you are. I wanted to hear that.5695    Thank you.5696    I yield back.5697    Dr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields back.5698    I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Burlison.5699    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.5700    Over the past 5 years, the Federal Transit Administration5701has been provided with nearly $250 billion of Federal taxpayer5702dollars. They have received more Federal funding since the5703pandemic than any point in our Nation's history.5704    However, despite that historic level, the 2025 Report Card5705recently published by the American Society of Civil Engineers5706gave our Nation's public transit system a ``D'' letter grade.5707Which, I don't know about you, but I find that unacceptable.5708    Mr. Ford, do you believe that the ``D'' letter grade5709accurately reflects the state of our transit infrastructure?5710    Mr. Ford. We believe that the backlog, which is approaching5711$100 billion in terms of backlog, in Federal funding for public5712transportation has led to a less-than-stellar grade as it5713relates to our infrastructure.5714    We are not happy with that rating, and that is why we are5715aggressively imploring that there is additional funding,5716Federal funding, that goes towards reinvestment in our transit5717systems, some of which are aged and need rehabilitation to get5718to a state of good repair.5719    Mr. Burlison. So you are saying, despite record levels of5720funding, there is still a huge backlog?5721    Mr. Ford. Yes, sir, there is still a huge backlog in spite5722of the record levels of funding for public transportation.5723    Mr. Burlison. We had the Biden infrastructure law which5724provided the transit industry about $108 billion in funding5725alone. Where did that money go?5726    Mr. Ford. That money went to new transit systems,5727rehabilitation of rolling stock and infrastructure, track5728programs, as well as facility upgrades. But, clearly, it was5729not enough.5730    And one point I would like to reiterate is, 77 percent of5731that actual funding goes to the private sector. So it goes5732towards projects, it goes toward rolling stock, as well as5733infrastructure projects to maintain and expand our transit5734network.5735    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Ford.5736    Ms. Cline, in your testimony, you highlight that one way5737that this committee can assist smaller, rural transit systems5738in upcoming surface reauthorization is by ``broadly right-5739sizing the regulatory burden,'' citing that ``much of the5740regulatory and data-collection efforts promulgated by . . . the5741Federal Transit Administration are designed for the Nation's5742largest transit operators,'' not the small, rural operators.5743    Could you expand on what you mean by ``broadly right-5744sizing'' those regulatory burdens?5745    Ms. Cline. Thank you for the question.5746    And, again, I will reiterate, we have four administrative5747staff to do all of our reporting requirements, meet the monthly5748requirements from our DOTs, and so forth and so on. So we don't5749have the ability to meet the regulations within the timeframes5750that they need to be met, although we do meet them. But some of5751those could be downsized.5752    And, again, I will go to the----5753    Mr. Burlison [interrupting]. Are there some that are kind5754of pointless, in your mind?5755    Ms. Cline. Oh, yes, quite a few of them.5756    Mr. Burlison. Do you have a list of them?5757    Ms. Cline. Yes, I do. I can get you the list.5758    Mr. Burlison. We would love to have that list.5759    Ms. Cline. Yes.5760    Mr. Burlison. So, in your view, some of these regulations5761are definitely not necessary. And so I would love to get that.5762Because I think that, this administration, one thing that we5763can do is figure out how we can cut redtape.5764    Mr. Booterbaugh, in your testimony, you make an interesting5765point, that multiple private-sector entities competing for5766transit contracts is better and will maximize every dollar. Can5767you expound on that?5768    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes. I mean, it is pretty simple. For us,5769we believe that the more competition there is, the sharper the5770price point is going to be on these services.5771    And we think that there are things that can be done from a5772contracting standpoint and a procurement standpoint that can5773really drive further competition between the private sector.5774Some of those are looking at things like liquidated damages5775today. They are kind of wide-open for private contractors. I5776suggested in my testimony on behalf of NATA that we cap them at57771 percent for both incentives and disincentives on the5778contract.5779    We think that is a good way to drive more private interest5780and also, through the bidding process, put agencies in a5781position where they are getting far more competitive pricing.5782    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, panelists.5783    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.5784    Dr. Van Drew. The gentleman yields back.5785    I recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Friedman.5786    Ms. Friedman. Thank you very much, Chair Rouzer and Ranking5787Member Norton--who are not here right now--and our witnesses5788for coming to testify today.5789    I was very excited to get on this committee, and one reason5790is because it is a place where I do believe that we can work5791across the aisle on issues that are important to the American5792people.5793    And I have heard several things today from my Republican5794colleagues that I completely agree with, and I want to call a5795few of those out, one having to do with us having a ``D'' grade5796in transit. And I do think it is important that we keep that in5797mind.5798    And I believe that we do need to bring our transit grade5799way up and that the way to do that is to increase our5800investments in transit. It is as simple as that. Our5801investments in transit in the United States are dwarfed by our5802investments in roads and many other types of infrastructure5803that we invest in.5804    In fact, we should be investing in infrastructure in5805general in this country. We are a wealthy Nation, and our5806infrastructure should reflect that. And, to me, there is no5807better place to spend money than in transit.5808    I also agree with my Republican colleagues who just spoke5809about permitting and making sure that, when we have5810regulations, when we have permits, that they are additive to5811our goals.5812    I am proud that, when I chaired the Transportation5813Committee in California, I was part of doing permitting reform5814that was narrowly tailored, but looked at the overall5815environmental benefit of transit projects and found ways to5816streamline those so that we could get those projects on the5817ground with a lot less process. And I am certainly looking5818forward to opportunities to work across the aisle with my5819colleagues on ways that we can do that at the Federal level.5820    I do want to bring up--we have talked about the economic5821impact of the investments in transit, and I am going to mention5822a few of those in a second. But I also want to remind people5823that another part of transit investments that people don't5824often think about is their impact on our ability to solve other5825problems.5826    And, namely, in Los Angeles, one of our biggest crises5827right now is around housing and people's ability to find5828housing after the recent fires that we had. And, even prior to5829that, a lack of housing has led to a crisis in housing5830affordability.5831    And I have always contended that we can't fix our housing5832problem in our urban areas--and in any area--without fixing5833mobility. There is a variety of reasons why people oppose5834housing, and one of the biggest ones we hear is because of5835impacts to congestion, traffic congestion, and parking. And the5836fix to that is better public transportation.5837    It is something that the public supports. It is something5838that they use when it is safe and it is convenient and runs5839quickly. To give people that better way of moving around their5840communities helps us also solve our housing crisis.5841    Now, in Los Angeles, L.A. Metro has recently received $7005842million from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to support three5843large expansion projects. We are very excited about that in5844L.A.5845    These projects are going to generate billions of dollars in5846revenue, they are going to create thousands of good-paying5847jobs, and they are going to reduce traffic congestion and5848connect Los Angelenos much better to the places where they need5849to go. And I do believe that it is going to answer those5850questions about people who are concerned about adding the5851housing that we desperately need in our region.5852    The D Line extension alone is going to produce over $35853billion in business revenue and create over 22,000 jobs in the5854construction phase alone.5855    And I will mention that we are going to be hosting FIFA in5856Los Angeles and the Olympics, and we have promised people in5857other countries a way to get around our community. And I hope5858that we use that upcoming event to continue to invest.5859    Mr. Ford, as you know, every billion dollars that we invest5860in public transportation sustains approximately $5 billion in5861long-term economic impact and 50,000 jobs. And I was hoping5862that you would speak broadly to the importance of investment5863that you have seen in your community and what that has done in5864your part of the world.5865    Mr. Ford. Yes. Thank you for that question.5866    And it is clear: The better we move our communities, the5867stronger they become financially, health-wise, as well as5868educationally wise.5869    And representing APTA today is a great honor to just5870reiterate that story of public transportation and the ability5871it has to improve the quality of lives in our community--not5872just by moving people.5873    And that is why that statistic is so telling, in that there5874are communities that do not have public transportation that5875depend on our operations, depend on our investment, our5876contracts, our purchases of rolling stock to sustain their5877communities, either through a manufacturing plant or some other5878activity that supports our large transit systems, our transit5879systems across the country.5880    So thank you for reiterating that fact, that a dollar spent5881in public transportation yields $5 in economic impact. And,5882literally, 77 percent of the Federal funding we receive goes to5883the private sector to build these projects and maintain our5884systems.5885    Ms. Friedman. Thank you.5886    My time is up, and I yield back.5887    Dr. Van Drew. The gentlelady yields back.5888    And I yield 5 minutes to myself.5889    Funding alone is not going to fix a broken transportation5890system. Money is important; we all know it. It is real5891important. But, besides the money, there are other issues.5892    We put $180 billion, invested through the Infrastructure5893Investment and Jobs Act--which I supported, by the way--in a5894bipartisan way, yet major challenges persist. Ridership is5895still low. Fare revenues haven't recovered completely. Crime,5896in some cases, is up. And agencies continue to fall short of5897delivering results that justify completely this level of5898support.5899    Meanwhile, the flow of Federal funds is too slow--the Feds5900are at fault, too--the process is too confusing, and oversight5901sometimes is too weak. That is why the upcoming reauthorization5902must focus on smarter investments, faster delivery, stronger5903oversight, and real accountability. We have to do things5904differently.5905    I have a friend of mine who is from the South in a rural5906area, and he has this saying: ``Get 'er done.'' ``Get 'er5907done.'' Did you ever hear that? Let's get this done. Let's see5908if we can get this done.5909    Everybody supports--I really do believe the vast majority5910of Members of Congress and the public support public5911transportation, as was said by a number of my colleagues, if5912it's clean, if it's safe, if it's quick, if it's responsive.5913    Local agencies are stuck navigating vague guidance,5914redtape, shifting timelines that cause delay and increase5915costs, leaves communities waiting and waiting and waiting or5916behind schedule on many projects.5917    Mr. Feigenbaum, thank you, first of all, for being here5918today. How can the FTA improve clarity and consistency so that5919the funds are delivered faster, that the projects are done on5920schedule, on time, and on budget?5921    Mr. Feigenbaum. Sure. So thank you for the question.5922    I think the first thing is to set up a detailed timeline of5923the amount of time, maximum times, it would take for a project5924to be delivered or for a project to go through review and the5925funds to be expended. Right now, there really isn't such a5926timeline, and I think that would be helpful.5927    Two, I think there needs to be some clear guidance as to5928exactly what information agencies want and some, maybe,5929realistic-ness. There was a time when a detailed cost-benefit5930analysis was required, and many smaller agencies really didn't5931have the resources for that, and so FTA staff actually ended up5932doing it themselves, and so it was kind of a silly thing to ask5933for.5934    So it is a combination of detailed timeline, clear5935instructions, and making sure the agency is asking for5936realistic information.5937    Dr. Van Drew. Good answer. Could you do me a favor and get5938that response you just gave me to the staff here on the5939Transportation and Infrastructure Committee and to me5940personally in my office as well?5941    Mr. Feigenbaum. Sure.5942    Dr. Van Drew. Thank you.5943    I think we all agree, taxpayers deserve to know what is5944going on, where their money is going, why they are spending5945this money, if we are making things better, if we are making5946them more efficient, if it's working, period.5947    So, Mr. Feigenbaum--I am picking on you today--should5948agencies be required to--in fact, real quickly, almost like a5949``yes'' or ``no,'' if you could all answer this: Should5950agencies be required to report real-time data on safety,5951service, and ridership to ensure accountability?5952    And I will start, actually, with Mr. Regan. It is kind of a5953short answer, if you could.5954    Mr. Regan. I am sorry. What was the question?5955    Dr. Van Drew. Okay. We will skip you for now.5956    Mr. Feigenbaum.5957    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes, I do. With the technology today, it is5958very doable.5959    Dr. Van Drew. Mr. Booterbaugh.5960    Mr. Booterbaugh. I think it would be great. It would5961require a lot of infrastructure investment to do it.5962    Dr. Van Drew. Ms. Cline.5963    Ms. Cline. I agree with the gentlemen.5964    Dr. Van Drew. So you are saying: Great idea; it is going to5965cost a lot of bucks.5966    Mr. Ford.5967    Mr. Ford. The answer is yes. And, right now, APTA reports5968that type of data, particularly ridership data, every week.5969    Dr. Van Drew. So, Mr. Regan, it was to report real-time5970data on safety, service, and ridership.5971    Mr. Regan. One hundred percent, yes.5972    Dr. Van Drew. Okay. Thank you.5973    Funding flexibility has its place, and it is good, and we5974are all about that, I think, bipartisan. But it shouldn't come5975at the expense of oversight.5976    Would you support Congress placing clearer limits on the5977use of Federal transit funds to prevent waste and mismanagement5978before it happens?5979    Again, we only have a few seconds, so real quick.5980    Mr. Regan. Yes.5981    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes.5982    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes.5983    Mr. Ford. Yes.5984    Ms. Cline. Yes.5985    Dr. Van Drew. And that wouldn't cost a ton of money. I5986think that is something that is really doable.5987    So I think these are things maybe, as a committee, we5988should look at. I would appreciate any input, my office would.5989I know the good, great staff here within Transportation and5990Infrastructure would. And maybe we can actually do something. I5991know that's weird for Congress, but maybe we actually could.5992    I am being a little sarcastic.5993    Thank you so much for your time.5994    And I yield back.5995    Mr. Carbajal.5996    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know you saved the5997best for last, but I--well, just when I said that, somebody5998else came in, so almost the best for last.5999    Mr. Ford, in my district, the Santa Barbara Metropolitan6000Transit District had previously received Federal dollars6001through the STIC program. However, due to population growth, it6002disqualified MTD from the STIC funds. This has translated to6003roughly a $3 million loss annually.6004    Can you discuss how Congress can work to ensure that high-6005performing community public transit providers, like MTD, that6006serve medium-size, urbanized areas are able to compete for6007Federal dollars in order to continue offering quality and6008affordable transportation services to the public?6009    Mr. Ford. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Can you6010hear me? It seems like--yes.6011    Okay. Thank you for the question.6012    I think, when we talk about the midsize systems, we have a6013unique environment to operate within. And it is a challenge to6014continue to compete, similar to the rural systems, with our6015larger brothers and sisters and the larger systems.6016    I would be open to specifically working with you and your6017office to identify what has been the success of the JTA and6018what were some of those strategies that we used. I think I6019would need more time to get back to you on that specific6020answer.6021    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. I look forward to working with6022you.6023    Mr. Ford, there are 61 transit projects at various stages6024of development in the pipeline for Capital Investment Grant6025funding. These projects are established to meet the mobility6026and economic-opportunity needs identified by local communities.6027    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law provided a historic $236028billion for the CIG program, $8 billion of which was guaranteed6029funding.6030    Your testimony notes several CIG projects that are making a6031difference in communities across the country. How important is6032robust and reliable Federal funding in getting these projects6033built on time and on budget?6034    Mr. Ford. It is key to--thank you for the question. It is6035key to the successful delivery of that project.6036    For our communities, when we talk about capital projects,6037having that knowledge in advance that the money is secure, the6038funding is secure to move forward, it allows us to properly6039plan and set up the right consultant and engineering and6040construction processes to deliver that program. Also, it gives6041us the opportunity to really articulate to our community the6042benefits of that program.6043    So it cuts out a lot of the uncertainty in terms of what6044needs to be advanced for your community and the successful6045delivery of that project. So certainty is important.6046    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you.6047    Mr. Regan, according to the American Public Transportation6048Association, every $1 invested in transit generates $5 in6049economic return.6050    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was really a jobs bill.6051However, recent actions by the U.S. Department of6052Transportation to delay, meddle, and cancel transit funding6053threatens the livelihoods of workers directly and indirectly6054connected to this industry.6055    Can you discuss the impacts of unpredictable and punitive6056actions several administration Executive orders have had on the6057workforce?6058    Mr. Regan. Yes. Thank you for the question.6059    One thing that I have found to be a little frustrating6060during this hearing is hearing people say, well, in the last 56061years----6062    Mr. Carbajal [interrupting]. Is your microphone on?6063    Mr. Regan. It is, yes.6064    Mr. Carbajal. There we go.6065    Mr. Regan [continuing]. In the last 5 years, we have had a6066record amount of money for public transit, and how come it is6067not better; we are still at a ``D'' grade on there from the6068American Society of Civil Engineers.6069    When you have chronically underfunded a sector of our6070country, like public transit, for decades, it is not going to6071bounce back like that. Mr. Larsen said that in the beginning.6072    But, as we are finally funding these programs at a level6073that I think should be our normal level, should be our6074baseline--in fact, we should be growing off of it--and now we6075are going to be meddling with the project delivery at this6076stage of a 5-year bill, it's only going to hurt jobs, it's6077going to delay projects, and it's going to make it harder for6078you all, for Congress, to go back and say, ``Look at the6079accomplishments we had the last time we made real investments6080in these programs, and we need to build upon it.''6081    But if we are not seeing real results and if they are6082delaying projects and cutting jobs, that makes the selling job6083a little bit harder in terms of to constituents. If we are6084going to be going back and saying, ``We need to reinvest in6085this and on a much bigger level and continue to invest in our6086communities,'' these types of actions are only going to hurt6087that momentum that we are already seeing right now.6088    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you.6089    Mr. Chair, I am out of time. I yield back.6090    Mr. Burchett [presiding]. Thank you. And we did save the6091absolute best for last, I just want you to know. Thank you for6092noting that. You are out of order. No, I am just kidding.6093    I have a question for Mr. Regan.6094    Mr. Regan, have instances of crime on public transit6095increased over the past decade?6096    Mr. Regan. Yes. Certainly on operators, yes, on the people6097I represent.6098    Mr. Burchett. Do we have any data to indicate why that is?6099    Mr. Regan. I don't know exactly why. I mean, it is hard to6100legislate the human condition, but----6101    Mr. Burchett [interrupting]. Yes. Tell me about it.6102    This is for all the witnesses: Are traditional security6103measures, like security cameras and police presence, sufficient6104to deter crime on public transit?6105    Mr. Ford.6106    Mr. Ford. Thank you for the question.6107    I think those are foundational, but there are different6108technologies that our agencies are now deploying: using6109artificial intelligence; using weapon detection in terms of6110cameras and CCTV; using artificial intelligence to predict6111where there may be a proliferation of particular crimes in a6112certain area. That way, you can target your actual police and6113enforcement resources; deescalation training for our operators6114so they recognize someone who is having a mental issue----6115    Mr. Burchett [interposing]. Right.6116    Mr. Ford [continuing]. And how to deescalate that6117situation.6118    So a lot of different tools are needed to be deployed, and6119our agencies are doing that.6120    Mr. Burchett. Any of the others?6121    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes, I would just add that one of the6122things that we have noticed in our operations is that there is6123a direct link to places where you are running fare-free. There6124seems to be more assaults in locations----6125    Mr. Burchett [interrupting]. Running what?6126    Mr. Booterbaugh. Fare-free.6127    Mr. Burchett. Fare-free.6128    Mr. Booterbaugh. Yes.6129    Mr. Burchett. Okay.6130    Mr. Booterbaugh. But I do agree with Mr. Ford; there is a6131variety of things that we are trying to keep our operators6132safe. But it is a problem.6133    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes. They are a big part of the solution6134that in some agencies haven't been ramped up quickly enough, in6135my opinion.6136    I would also say that fare gates, higher fare gates, are a6137big part of the solution, and more protections in buses for6138drivers.6139    Mr. Burchett. Well, let me ask you--I worry about the poor6140folks, the least amongst us, so to speak, that can't afford6141that. How do you segregate that community, between the folks6142that are just on a bad run of luck and the dirtbags?6143    Mr. Feigenbaum. Yes. Well, I think the poor folks are6144actually who we should be focusing on in transit. And I think6145it comes down to, in some cases, there might be a rationale for6146a discounted fare, but there is still something that folks are6147paying on the system.6148    And it is not--I mean, it is not cheap, but it is not that6149expensive to give drivers protection. Spending your money6150there, as opposed to operating routes that don't have enough6151riders or building new capital systems which can be6152tremendously expensive, is the right place to focus resources--6153Federal, State, and local.6154    Mr. Burchett. I know AI was mentioned. Are there any other6155technologies that we could incorporate into public6156infrastructure to deter some of this crime?6157    Mr. Ford.6158    Mr. Ford. Well, one system--and thank you for the question.6159    One system that we are deploying now at the JTA, my6160Jacksonville Transportation Authority, is actually monitors6161where the passengers actually see themselves. You may see that6162in a lot of department stores and things of that nature.6163    And so, when we piloted it, that system, we saw that it did6164encourage behaviors, not the far criminal--it deters criminal6165behavior, but, more importantly, just behaviors that are not6166acceptable in public that we were seeing.6167    Mr. Burchett. Is this like a camera? They see a video of6168themselves?6169    Mr. Ford. Yes, so you actually see yourself sitting on that6170vehicle. And that has triggered a certain behavioral response6171relative to just outbursts, cursing, and----6172    Mr. Burchett [interposing]. Right.6173    Mr. Ford [continuing]. Behaviors that are not appropriate6174in public.6175    Mr. Burchett. Somebody like me would be afraid that my mama6176would see something like that, so I----6177    Mr. Ford [interposing]. That's right.6178    Mr. Burchett. Back in the day.6179    Mr. Ford. Well, we are showing you, ``Our eyes are on6180you.''6181    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.6182    I was in the Middle East, and I remember, I walked into6183this area, and it wasn't particularly friendly towards people6184from our country--I will just leave it at that. And they had6185facial recognition. And I remember, I asked one of their6186leaders, I said, ``Is that facial recognition?'' ``Oh, no, we6187don't have anything like that.'' And I took a picture of it,6188because it had my face on it----6189    Mr. Ford [interposing]. Is that so.6190    Mr. Burchett [continuing]. And I thought, man, if the6191Taliban had me on file, they are really digging deep.6192    But, anyway, anybody else--ma'am, you haven't said one6193thing up here. I haven't heard you. Do you have anything to add6194to any of this?6195    Ms. Cline. Well, we do have cameras in all of our vehicles6196and also outside of our facilities.6197    And I will tell you that, in our area, law enforcement6198comes to us fairly routinely to check on different activities6199because there aren't a lot of cameras. We are in a residential6200area.6201    But, also, we use those to monitor children's behavior on6202the bus. So, if your mama was on the same track that these6203mamas were on, we can tell them if Joey was being a good boy or6204not.6205    Mr. Burchett. Yes. My mama is with Jesus right now, so she6206is all right. She is doing better--her and Daddy are doing6207better than all of us. So, thank you.6208    And I want to thank you all for being here.6209    Apparently I have to read this. I am not generally the6210chairman. It usually--I will never chair a committee or be in6211leadership, I will tell you that.6212    Let's see here.6213    Thank you all. The gentleman yields back--which is me. I am6214yielding back. I am a little cautious of calling myself a6215gentleman. That usually--anytime anybody calls me ``The6216Honorable Tim Burchett,'' I am always afraid; I know what they6217are getting ready to ask. They need a bridge or a library or6218something. So, I have to be very careful with that.6219    Are there further questions from any members of the6220subcommittee who have not been recognized?6221    Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today. And I6222would like to thank each of our witnesses for your testimony.6223    The subcommittee stands adjourned.6224    [Whereupon, at 1:32 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]62256226                       Submissions for the Record62276228                              ----------62296230  Statement of Hon. Sam Graves, a Representative in Congress from the6231   State of Missouri, and Chairman, Committee on Transportation and6232                             Infrastructure6233    Thank you, Chairman Rouzer, and thank you to our witnesses for6234being here today.6235    Today's hearing focuses on our Nation's public transportation6236programs that fall under the Federal Transit Administration, or FTA.6237    We continue to receive information about what programs are working6238and those that aren't, as we consider where we should be directing our6239investments to facilitate the safe and efficient movement of people and6240goods.6241    I'd like to thank Secretary Duffy for his leadership and commitment6242to addressing the crime happening on some of the Nation's public6243transit systems. Since the COVID-19 pandemic, we have seen ridership6244numbers struggle to recover and crime levels skyrocket.6245    No place has that been more apparent than Kansas City, where their6246``free fare'' experiment has gone horribly wrong. Instead of making6247transit affordable and reliable, it made transit unsustainable and6248downright dangerous. Drivers and passengers shouldn't fear for their6249lives every time they step on a bus, yet that's exactly what's happened6250in Kansas City.6251    In my district, we've seen crime skyrocket at and around bus stops6252since this ``free fare'' nonsense started. And it's exactly why we've6253seen them reverse course and end this horrible experiment-gone-awry.6254    Without addressing this growing concern, we continue to put other6255riders, drivers, operators, and workers in danger.6256    Thank you, Chairman Rouzer. I yield back.62576258                                Appendix62596260                              ----------62616262Questions from Hon. Hillary J. Scholten to Nathaniel Phillip Ford, Sr.,6263  Chief Executive Officer, Jacksonville Transportation Authority, on6264    behalf of the American Public Transportation Association (APTA)62656266    Question 1. Autonomous vehicles represent the next frontier of6267cutting-edge technology, and we must ensure that the United States6268stays at the forefront so we do not cede our edge to China or the rest6269of the world. Part of that commitment means building more vehicles here6270at home and onshoring our supply chains. In my home state of Michigan,6271we are home to a thriving community of automotive manufacturers and6272suppliers, including Holon which has taken the lead by breaking ground6273on a new plant in your city to build their next generation autonomous6274shuttle. This expansion will help solidify their extensive U.S.6275footprint, which is centered in Michigan. We need more investment like6276that to ensure these jobs stay at home.6277    Question 1.a. Can you elaborate on this from your perspective--as6278you are considering options for your community in Jacksonville, how6279important is it to procure a vehicle that is built in the United6280States?6281    Answer:6282      The JTA and APTA strongly support Buy America policies6283and share the goal of strengthening domestic manufacturing. For over 406284years, public transportation projects have complied with Buy America,6285ensuring all of the steel, iron, and manufacturing products are made in6286the U.S.62876288      The public transportation industry has one of the6289strictest Buy America standards, with rolling stock requirements that6290at least 70 percent of the cost of components and subcomponents used6291must be produced in the U.S., and that final assembly also takes place6292in the U.S.62936294      Public transportation, a $79 billion industry, employs6295more than 430,000 people and supports millions of private-sector jobs.6296In fact, 77 percent of Federal public transportation investment flows6297to the private sector. These are jobs in fields such as manufacturing,6298engineering, operations, construction, and much more, with emerging6299mobility technologies like ITS infrastructure, smart fare collection,6300and predictive maintenance creating additional job opportunities in the6301technology and innovation sectors.63026303      This was our vision as the JTA moved forward with the6304Ultimate Urban Circulator (U\2\C). By embracing new AV technology that6305is leading in the mobility innovation space, we are able to provide the6306communities we serve with mobility solutions that are agile and6307adaptable to the needs of our customers, understanding that6308transportation is not a one-size-fits-all industry. This ultimately6309results in increasing jobs in America and increased support in6310investments made in products and services here in the U.S.63116312      HOLON, a subsidiary of the BENTELER Group, is6313establishing its first U.S. production facility for autonomous vehicles6314in Jacksonville, Florida. This plant will have a large economic impact6315in our region, per an economic study:6316      +  From 2025 to 2027, the total plant investments will generate6317an estimated 839 jobs and $201.1 million in economic impact.6318      +  Starting in 2028, the plant's operations is projected to6319create 736 jobs and $87.2 million in economic impact per year.6320    Question 1.b. How can public sector transportation agencies play a6321role in driving local economic development and manufacturing through6322strategic projects?6323    Answer:6324      Public transportation agencies must play a role in6325helping communities grow and prosper, from a quality-of-life6326perspective that includes the creation of jobs, and positive economic6327growth, through investment as well.63286329      The U\2\C has been a catalyst, one that was pivotal in6330the decision making for BENTELER to set up its HOLON manufacturing6331plant in Jacksonville, Florida, with an economic impact study stating6332that this will result in over a billion dollars in economic impact in6333just 12 years.63346335      Every single strategic project and service that we6336evaluate, plan, and ultimately execute, must ensure that it advances6337the mobility of our residents through reliable and safe transportation,6338and bring positive impacts upon our community. This can be achieved6339through the creation of jobs, reliable service to medical and6340educational facilities, incentivizing investment, helping increase land6341value, and other generating revenue options.63426343      For example, since the JTA launched the First Coast Flyer6344Bus Rapid Transit system, the largest in the southeast with approximate634557 miles of premium service, we have tracked how residential and6346commercial permitting has exponentially increased along these6347corridors.63486349      Every $1 invested in public transit generates $5 in6350economic returns. Again, 77 percent of Federal public transportation6351investment flows to the private sector, with APTA identifying more than63522,000 suppliers (ex. construction, manufacturing, engineering,6353technology, planning, operations) that Federal transit investment6354directly supports.63556356      Additional benefits from transportation investment come6357from other related areas such as:6358      +  Emerging mobility technologies like ITS infrastructure, smart6359fare collection, and predictive maintenance create additional job6360opportunities in the tech and innovation sectors.6361      +  Transit-Oriented Development (TOD) attracts businesses,6362housing, and retail around transit hubs, increasing property values and6363economic activity.6364      +  Enhancing transportation networks can revitalize downtowns and6365commercial corridors, supporting small businesses and increasing local6366tax revenues.6367      +  Smart city technologies, such as AI-powered traffic management6368and digital fare integration, can improve transit efficiency and user6369experience.