H.Hrg.119

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                     EVALUATING FIRSTNET: PERFORMANCE,5                   ACCOUNTABILITY, AND REAUTHORIZATION67=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213             SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY1415                                 OF THE1617                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE18                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             SECOND SESSION2324                               __________2526                            FEBRUARY 4, 20262728                               __________2930                           Serial No. 119-593132                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3334     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce3536                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy37                        energycommerce.house.gov3839                               ______4041                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE424363-895 PDF                WASHINGTON : 20264445                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE4647                        BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky48                                 Chairman4950ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey51H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia           Ranking Member52GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado53RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina       JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois54EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    DORIS O. MATSUI, California55GARY J. PALMER, Alabama              KATHY CASTOR, Florida56NEAL P. DUNN, Florida, Vice          PAUL TONKO, New York57    Chairman                         YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York58DAN CRENSHAW, Texas                  RAUL RUIZ, California59JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania             SCOTT H. PETERS, California60RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas           DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan61RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               MARC A. VEASEY, Texas62TROY BALDERSON, Ohio                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois63RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California64AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                DARREN SOTO, Florida65DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee         KIM SCHRIER, Washington66MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts67KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas68JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York69JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts70CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana71ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey72RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          KEVIN MULLIN, California73LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio74NICHOLAS A. LANGWORTHY, New York     JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia75THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey76MICHAEL A. RULLI, Ohio77GABE EVANS, Colorado78CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas79JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota8081                                 ------8283                           Professional Staff8485                     MEGAN JACKSON, Staff Director86                SOPHIE KHANAHMADI, Deputy Staff Director87               TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Minority Staff Director8889             Subcommittee on Communications and Technology9091                     RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina92                                 Chairman9394RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia, Vice         DORIS O. MATSUI, California95    Chairman                           Ranking Member96ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                DARREN SOTO, Florida97H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York98GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            RAUL RUIZ, California99EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    SCOTT H. PETERS, California100NEAL P. DUNN, Florida                DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan101RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois102AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California103KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana104JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey105ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio106RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia107THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey      KATHY CASTOR, Florida108CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas              FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex109JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota            officio)110BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky (ex111    officio)112113                             C O N T E N T S114115                              ----------116                                                                   Page117Hon. Richard Hudson, a Representative in Congress from the State118  of North Carolina, opening statement...........................     2119    Prepared statement...........................................     4120Hon. Doris O. Matsui, a Representative in Congress from the State121  of California, opening statement...............................     9122    Prepared statement...........................................    11123Hon. Brett Guthrie, a Representative in Congress from the124  Commonwealth of Kentucky, opening statement....................    13125    Prepared statement...........................................    14126Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the127  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    17128    Prepared statement...........................................    19129Hon. Jennifer L. McClellan, a Representative in Congress from the130  Commonwealth of Virginia, opening statement....................    22131132                               Witnesses133134Michael A. Adkinson, Jr., Acting Board Chair, First Responder135  Network Authority, and Sheriff, Walton County, Florida.........    23136    Prepared statement...........................................    26137    Answers to submitted questions...............................   140138Michael E. Dame, Associate Administrator for Public Safety139  Communications, National Telecommunications and Information140  Administration.................................................    32141    Prepared statement...........................................    34142Scott Agnew, President, FirstNet and Public Sector Mobility,143  AT&T, Inc......................................................    38144    Prepared statement...........................................    40145146                              Legislation147148H.R. ___, the First Responder Network Authority Reauthorization149  Act of 2026....................................................   100150151                           Submitted Material152153Inclusion of the following was approved by unanimous consent.154List of documents submitted for the record.......................   114155Letter of January 21, 2026, from Jeff Norman, President, Major156  Cities Chiefs Association, and Sheriff Chris West, President,157  National Sheriffs' Association. to Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Pallone.   115158Letter of January 28, 2026, from Anthony J. Constantini, Policy159  Analyst, Bull Moose Project, to Mr. Hudson.....................   117160Statement of Thomas A. Schatz, President, Council for Citizens161  Against Government Waste, February 4, 2026.....................   119162Letter of February 2, 2026, from Andrew Knapp, Director, Hamilton163  County Emergency Communications, to Subcommittee on164  Communications And Technology..................................   121165Letter of January 21, 2026, from Christine E. Hamp, President,166  National Grange................................................   122167Letter of February 2, 2026, from Fire Chief Steven Locke, First168  Vice President, International Association of Fire Chiefs, to169  Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Pallone....................................   125170Letter of February 3, 2026, from Patrick Yoes, National171  President, National Fraternal Order of Police, to Mr. Guthrie172  and Mr. Pallone................................................   126173Letter of January 16, 2026, from Frank J. Walters, President, New174  Jersey State Fire Chiefs Association, to Mr. Guthrie and Mr.175  Hudson.........................................................   129176Statement of APCO International, et al., ``Recommendations for177  Preserving the Federal FirstNet Network''......................   131178Letter of February 3, 2026, from David Williams, President,179  Taxpayers Protection Alliance, to Mr. Hudson and Ms. Matsui....   135180Letter of February 3, 2026, from John Paul Jones, Executive181  Director,, Public Safety Broadband Technology Association, to182  Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Hudson.....................................   137183Statement by Lee H. Davidson, Chief Deputy, Ripley County184  Sheriff's Office...............................................   139185186                     EVALUATING FIRSTNET: PERFORMANCE,187                   ACCOUNTABILITY, AND REAUTHORIZATION188189                              ----------190191                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2026192193                  House of Representatives,194     Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,195                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,196                                                    Washington, DC.197    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:16 a.m., in198the John D. Dingell Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building,199Hon. Richard Hudson (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.200    Members present: Hudson, Allen, Latta, Griffith, Bilirakis,201Carter of Georgia, Dunn, Pfluger, Cammack, Obernolte, Houchin,202Fry, Kean, Goldman, Fedorchak, Guthrie (ex officio), Matsui203(subcommittee ranking member), Soto, Clarke, Ruiz, Peters,204Dingell, Barragan, Carter of Louisiana, Menendez, Landsman,205McClellan, Castor, and Pallone (ex officio).206    Also present: Representative Joyce.207    Staff present: Jessica Donlon, General Counsel; Michael208Essington, Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology; Sydney209Greene, Director of Finance andLogistics; Megan Jackson, Staff210Director; Noah Jackson, Clerk, Communications and Technology;211Sophie Khanahmadi, Deputy Staff Director; John Lin, Senior212Counsel, Communications and Technology; Sarah Meier, Counsel213and Parliamentarian; Elaina Murphy, Professional Staff Member,214Communications and Technology; Brice Ogle, Special Assistant;215Seth Ricketts, Clerk, Energy and Environment; Dylan Rogers,216Professional Staff Member, Communications and Technology; Chris217Sarley, Member Services/Stakeholder Director; Matt VanHyfte,218Communications Director; Jane Vickers, Press Assistant; Hannah219Anton, Minority Policy Analyst; Keegan Cardman, Minority Staff220Assistant; Parul Desai, Minority Chief Counsel, Communications221and Technology; Ava Digre, Minority Intern; Waverly Gordon,222Minority Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel; Tiffany223Guarascio, Minority Staff Director; Jackson Hall, Minority224Intern; Dan Miller, Minority Professional Staff Member; Andrew225Souvall, Minority Director of Communications, Outreach, and226Member Services; Johanna Thomas, Minority Counsel; and Hannah227Treger, Minority Staff Assistant.228    Mr. Hudson. The subcommittee will come to order.229    The Chair recognizes himself for an opening statement.230231 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD HUDSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN232           CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA233234    Good morning. Welcome to today's legislative hearing on the235First Responder Network Authority, or FirstNet.236    FirstNet's authorization expires at the beginning of next237year, and it is this committee's duty to reauthorize the238program before it expires. In the process, we should examine239FirstNet's activity since its creation 15 years ago and make240any changes necessary to improve its performance.241    The future of public safety relies on safe resources like242FirstNet, so thank you all for joining us to ensure that our243country is taken care of in times of need.244    During the horrific terrorist attacks on September 11,2452001, first responders from different agencies found they could246not communicate with each other because they used different247radio systems and overloaded networks prevented communications248from going through.249    In the aftermath of these attacks, Congress stood up the 9/25011 Commission, which made recommendations to prepare for and251guard against future attacks. One of those recommendations led252to Congress establishing FirstNet, a nationwide broadband253network specifically built for public safety.254    FirstNet was allocated 20 megahertz of spectrum and $7255billion to build out the network in all 50 States and the256Territories. In 2017, AT&T was selected to deploy the network.257Shortly after, FirstNet began providing priority and258preemption. During a crisis, when there is increased network259traffic, non-FirstNet AT&T subscribers will be removed from the260priority list to ensure first responders can always make the261call. On December 20, 2023, the FirstNet Authority verified the262initial nationwide build-out of the network.263    However, the successful build-out of this network does not264mean it has not faced challenges. Since 2014, the Department of265Commerce Office of Inspector General has issued 21 reports266regarding significant concerns about FirstNet and the267deployment of the nationwide public safety broadband network,268its operational response, and other administrative matters.269    Several of these reports highlight contract oversight270shortcomings, resulting in modified build-out objectives that271jeopardize first responders' ability to do their job. Other272reports indicate a failure of the network to adequately respond273to a natural disaster, and that a senior official at FirstNet274interfered with the OIG's investigation and even retaliated275against whistleblowers who cooperated with the OIG.276    This committee's work over the last several months has also277identified a consistent and troubling finding: The ambiguous278language regarding FirstNet's independence while simultaneously279placing it directly within an executive branch agency has280created confusion and strife for all parties involved when281trying to manage this program. To ensure the long-term success282of FirstNet, it is imperative there is clear and consistent283leadership. This leadership must be able to work hand in hand284with the FirstNet Board, not against it.285    I would like to emphasize that this draft legislation does286not in any way remove the statutory requirement to have a board287or their responsibilities to the First Responder Network288Authority. The board is an incredibly valuable component of289FirstNet and crucial for ensuring the experience and needs of290first responders as well as the general public, not government291bureaucrats, are reflected in the direction of the network.292    Additionally, we must ensure this network can evolve along293with the technological landscape. Networks of 15 years ago are294different than those of today and could be even more different29515 years from now. For the benefit of first responders,296FirstNet should have the statutory flexibility to incorporate297new network technologies to provide the most advanced service298that public safety requires.299    I want to be clear, FirstNet has succeeded despite the300challenges it has faced, and I would like to commend AT&T for301building a nationwide safety communications network, making it302a success and continuing to build it out and improve for the303safety of others, and for being the only one to take it on in304the first place.305    Congress is here to evaluate this program to ensure its306long-term success for our first responders. Today is the first307step in the reauthorization of this program.308    With FirstNet's statutory authority set to expire in 2027,309it is time for Congress to assess FirstNet's progress and310ensure that we provide a governing structure that sets up311FirstNet to succeed into the future.312    Today, we will hear from our witnesses who are directly313involved with FirstNet about the current state of the network314and how the legislation before us will strengthen the First315Responder Network Authority.316    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hudson follows:]317318[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]319320    Mr. Hudson. I now recognize the ranking member, the321gentlelady from California, for her opening statement.322323OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DORIS O. MATSUI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN324             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA325326    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.327    Keeping the public safe is one of our most fundamental328responsibilities as lawmakers. In moments of crisis, people329expect help to arrive quickly, but our public safety330professionals can't do their jobs if they don't receive the331call for help or if the lines of communication fail. That is332why Congress created the FirstNet Authority, a nationwide333broadband network specifically for first responders.334    Disasters don't wait for perfect conditions. Wildfires,335floods, severe storms, and large-scale emergencies can336overwhelm local systems in seconds. In those moments, our first337responders need priority service, strong coverage, and a338network that holds up under pressure.339    Back home in California, we are hearing that FirstNet is340making a difference on the ground. Cal OES, our State emergency341management office, has highlighted the tremendous value they342have seen from FirstNet, but they also emphasize the job is not343finished.344    Even with the progress so far, too many communities in345rural California still can't count on reliable coverage. That346matters because one of the core goals of FirstNet was to extend347reliable service to the places the market too often leaves348behind.349    As we consider reauthorization, we should be asking how we350strengthen incentives and accountability so that build-out351reaches the hard places, not just the easy ones. At the same352time, it is important to recognize what this program has353accomplished.354    FirstNet is a strong example of what can happen when355Congress identifies a real need and builds a durable framework356to meet it. At first, some questioned whether a nationwide357public safety network was feasible. Some questioned whether it358was good business. But Congress took on that challenge because359public safety is too important for us just to stand by.360    Since then, FirstNet has spurred modern public safety361connectivity. It showed that serving first responders can be362both a public good and a sustainable business model.363    Our job today is to take the lessons of nearly 15 years and364make FirstNet even better. That starts with fixing its365shortcomings, especially in transparency and accountability.366Congress and the public need clear visibility into FirstNet's367performance, spending, and whether commitments are being met.368    We also have a responsibility to help the system evolve.369Public safety needs are not one size fits all. Some public370safety agencies in my district rely on FirstNet, some use other371providers, and some use a mix because they can't afford a372single point of failure. But no matter what network a responder373is on, they should be able to connect instantly with partners374on the ground, even when conditions are at their worst. We375should look for ways to enable innovation, spur competition,376and meet local needs while maintaining interoperability and377reliability nationwide.378    At the end of the day, this reauthorization is about379listening to our first responders and making sure they have the380tools they need and do their job safely and effectively. If we381get this right, we can build on what is already working, fix382what isn't, and ensure FirstNet keeps delivering for383communities big and small, urban and rural for decades to come.384    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how this385draft bill balances these priorities and what changes are386needed.387    Thank you, and I yield back.388    [The prepared statement of Ms. Matsui follows:]389390[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]391392    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.393    I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, the394gentleman from Kentucky, for 5 minutes for his opening395statement.396397 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRETT GUTHRIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN398           CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY399400    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Hudson. Thanks401for bringing us all together on this important work, and thanks402for the Ranking Member Matsui for working on this as well. I403look forward to hearing more about FirstNet Responder Network404Authority and the impact the legislation before us will have.405    It has been almost 15 years since Congress created the406First Responder Network Authority. Born in the wake of the 9/11407terrorist attacks, this network is critical for first408responders to have a communications network that works and when409they need it most.410    It is important that this committee evaluates the progress411FirstNet has made since its inception and make necessary412changes to improve it. The committee's oversight work on this413issue has indicated ongoing challenges with the FirstNet414structure, and the Department of Commerce Office of Inspector415General has indicated problems with transparency and416accountability.417    The legislation before us today makes those reforms to418improve transparency, accountability, and leadership but also419to ensure longevity and continued development and success of420this network as technology evolves. This bill keeps important421aspects of FirstNet, such as the board, which provides valuable422expertise of this network to ensure continued success of the423program.424    Last year, I had the opportunity to meet with the Fern425Creek fire chief and other local first responders in my426district to talk about FirstNet operations and disaster427preparedness. We talked about reliable access to communications428for our first responders in our communities, especially during429emergencies like the devastating tornados and floods that430struck the Commonwealth in recent years.431    The creation of the First Responder Network Authority led432the way in innovation for a dedicated communication service for433first responders where today there are now competing services434for first responder communications. This healthy competition435will drive further market innovation to provide the best436services dedicated to public safety.437    However, we must ensure the different users of these438services can communicate and are interoperable with each other.439Regardless of which service provider our first responders use,440it is critical that their communication tools work reliably in441the moments of the greatest need.442    Thank you again for having this, Chairman Hudson. Thanks443for all our witnesses for being here. We look forward to444hearing from you. Your participation is important.445    And I will yield back.446    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guthrie follows:]447448[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]449450    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.451    I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, the ranking452member, for 5 minutes for his opening statement.453454OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE455            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY456457    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Hudson.458    The subcommittee has worked hard in recent months to459advance bipartisan efforts to improve public safety460communications, and I am glad to see that we are continuing461today as we discuss legislation to reauthorize the First462Responder Network Authority.463    Since its creation following the 9/11 terrorist attacks,464FirstNet has delivered unprecedented connectivity to law465enforcement, fire services, emergency medical services, and466many other public safety personnel who serve our communities467every day. And prior to those attacks, the market for priority468and preemptive services for first responders did not really469exist.470    The Government Emergency Telecommunication Service, or471GETS, has been around for some time, and more recently the472nationwide Wireless Priority Service, or WPS. Yet nothing comes473close to the mobile capabilities and exclusivity that are474available to first responders today and offered by three475different nationwide providers who compete fiercely for public476safety's business.477    Now, some of my colleagues might not want to believe it,478but government intervention and investment by Congress in 2012479actually opened the door to more competition while raising the480bar for public safety communication services. And as we look to481reauthorize First Responder Network Authority, it is important482that we recognize that many of the conditions that existed when483it was created in 2012 have changed significantly in 14 years.484    We also have the benefit of examination and analysis from485the Commerce Department's Office of Inspector General and the486Government Accountability Office. They both identified issues487that have led FirstNet to fall short of its mission at times to488serve first responders, and some of those problems are489structural while others have been addressed on an ongoing basis490by the FirstNet Authority as they have arisen.491    In any case, the text in the discussion draft before us492today represents a good-faith effort to address concerns that493have been raised with the committee over the years.494    It is also clear that the FirstNet service remains495overwhelmingly popular with the vast majority of public safety496organizations. Ultimately, the user experience and497functionality from the perspective of first responders and498public safety subscribers is the most important metric for us499to consider, and I am committed to ensuring that we do no harm500to this service in the course of this effort.501    I am aware of the passion and interest this issue has502across a broad range of stakeholders. I have appreciated503hearing the perspectives of our friends in public safety,504representatives of Federal, State, and local governments, and505wireless industry stakeholders who offer these services, and I506look forward to continuing those conversations this year as we507work through the regular order process to achieve consensus508that can pass both the House and Senate and be signed into law509by the year's end.510    So let me thank Representatives McClellan and Dunn for511their leadership in this effort that is absolutely critical to512keeping first responders connected when it matters most.513    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]514515[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]516517    Mr. Pallone. And I yield back the remainder--well,518actually, I want to yield the remainder of my time to519Representative McClellan.520    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Ranking Member Pallone and521Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member Matsui, for holding this522critically important hearing.523    This past week, most of the country was inundated by Winter524Storm Fern, which canceled nearly 2,000 flights, left hundreds525of thousands without power, and resulted in more than 50526deaths, three of them in Virginia.527    I would like to thank the witnesses and our first528responders for their work and continued investments in FirstNet529that have been made throughout the Nation, the Commonwealth,530and the Fourth District.531    Born out of the tragic events of September 11, FirstNet is532essential to ensuring our public safety community has the533reliable, interoperable tools and resources necessary to534respond to our most severe emergencies. This is critically535important as we see more and more severe natural disasters like536Winter Storm Fern and the mega hurricanes that we have seen.537    However, as FirstNet approaches the end of its current538authorization, it is clear that the program is operating539without sufficient, up-to-date oversight and accountability540measures in place. Reauthorization is not simply about541extending the program, it is about strengthening governance,542reinforcing transparency, and ensuring that Congress retains543appropriate visibility into how the nationwide public safety544broadband network operates.545    I am glad to work with my colleague from Florida, Mr. Dunn,546on this legislation, and I look forward to continuing our547bipartisan efforts to strengthen FirstNet so it can continue to548serve first responders and the communities that depend on them.549    Thank you, and I yield back.550    [The prepared statement of Ms. McClellan follows:]551552[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]553554    Mr. Pallone. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.555    Mr. Hudson. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman556yields back. Thank you.557    We have now concluded with Member opening statements. The558Chair reminds Members that, pursuant to the committee rules,559all Members' opening statements will be made part of the560record.561    I would like to thank our witnesses for being here today to562testify before this subcommittee. Our witnesses will have 5563minutes to provide an opening statement, which will be followed564by a round of questions from the Members.565    The witnesses here before us today are Sheriff Michael566Adkinson, acting board chair of the First Responder Network567Authority and sheriff of Walton County, Florida; Michael Dame,568Associate Administrator, Office of Public Safety Communications569at NTIA; and Scott Agnew, president of FirstNet and Public570Safety Mobility at AT&T.571    Thank you all for being here.572    Sheriff Adkinson, you are recognized for 5 minutes for an573opening statement.574575  STATEMENTS OF MICHAEL A. ADKINSON, Jr., ACTING BOARD CHAIR,576FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK AUTHORITY, AND SHERIFF, WALTON COUNTY,577 FLORIDA; MICHAEL E. DAME, ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR PUBLIC578    SAFETY COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND579    INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION; AND SCOTT AGNEW, PRESIDENT,580        FIRSTNET AND PUBLIC SAFETY MOBILITY, AT&T, INC.581582         STATEMENT OF SHERIFF MICHAEL A. ADKINSON, Jr.583584    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you, Chair Hudson, Chair Guthrie,585Ranking Member Matsui, Ranking Member Pallone.586    As previously stated, my name is Mike Adkinson. I am the587acting board chair of the FirstNet Authority. By way of my day588job, I am a sheriff in Walton County, Florida. Uniquely, I589represent professional fire rescue emergency services and air590medical as well as 9-1-1 communication center.591    Twenty-five years ago--you have heard it--this Nation faced592challenges. I remember getting up that morning, putting on a593police officer uniform for the Tallahassee Police Department,594and saying, ``What is going on? What is happening?''595    The reality of it is that this Congress, along with public596safety's input, made a decision that I think fundamentally597improved the well-being of the citizens of the United States598and the first responders they serve, which is you built a599purpose-built network to ensure that first responders could600communicate during times of emergency. I will tell you that I601think it is a generational infrastructure success.602    I have been on the board about a year and a half along with603six new board members, and we have marveled at what has been604accomplished. And I will tell you that I am proud of the work605that the Congress has done and the First Responder Network has606done.607    But my job is to be honest and to be a good steward of the608public's trust and the responsibility that you have given us. I609am well aware of the inspector general reports. We became aware610of them right after we came into office, the new board members.611It was our first thought and responsibility is to lean into612this. You are not going to hear me make excuses for that. I am613not in the business of excuses.614    As I told the executive director, and as the board said to615the executive director and staff members, we are in the616business of getting things done. And so what that means is617there will be accountability. There will be transparency. You618will work with the Office of the Inspector General, and we will619resolve these issues. Period, full stop. Then, whoever should620be held accountable should be held accountable.621    That is the reality of where we are at, and I am not going622to belabor that point because I think it speaks for itself.623    I think that there is an opportunity now to do some things624that make a difference. If FirstNet has been successful, I625believe it will continue to be successful. There are some626things I think we can do to make it better. Let me give you an627example.628    As I briefly mentioned, six of us came on board at one629time. That is an incredibly difficult way to maintain630continuity of government when you have six new people who have631no previous history on that board itself. We would ask that you632consider staggering these terms to 3 years.633    By the way, that was in the original legislation. It just634did not contemplate reoccurring, that you grant the Secretary635of the Department of Commerce the ability to continue to636stagger these terms. That is just good governance.637    We would also say this, that this should be a public safety638mindset on this board, and to that end we would ask that you639make a minimum five seats designated for public safety640disciplines. We think that is important. That is actually, I641believe, the intent. We are asking that you codify it into law,642and that is important.643    And lastly, I will say this: There are too many captains on644the ship. The reality of this is, if you are going to--if you645are going to hold me accountable, please give me the authority646to make decisions, and I think that is crucial.647    We have a good working relationship with NTIA. We are going648to continue to do that. But it is not about individuals. It is649about systems, and any time that you have a single solution650optimization, you have system fragility. You have to make sure651this thing is written down, that it is done correctly, that it652is clear to everyone involved about how we are going to do some653things. I think that is crucially important.654    I am going to go back and say this again: Nothing about655what I just said takes away from what I think is a phenomenal656generational improvement.657    I liken it to the Eisenhower interstate system. Everybody658can drive on it. It is the service of the people. Some people,659some local government, some private industry may build private660roads. That is fine, that is good. Our job is to make sure it661works, that we are good stewards of the public's money, and we662do what we do in the light of the sunshine, as we say in663Florida, Representative Castor, as you well know. This is the664way we should be doing business.665    I will hold myself fully accountable. As I said to the666chair the other day, you can have my resignation if you do not667believe that I am doing this appropriately.668    Thank you.669    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Adkinson follows:]670671[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]672673    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.674    Mr. Dame, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your opening675statement.676677                  STATEMENT OF MICHAEL E. DAME678679    Mr. Dame. Good morning, Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member680Matsui, Chairman Guthrie, Ranking Member Pallone, and members681of the subcommittee. My name is Mike Dame, and I am the682Associate Administrator for Public Safety Communications with683the National Telecommunications and Information Administration.684    I have served at NTIA for 13 years, with a total of 29685years of Federal service. My portfolio includes NTIA's686statutory and delegated responsibilities related to the687FirstNet Authority and Next Generation 9-1-1 activities. I am688honored to appear today to provide testimony regarding the689reauthorization of FirstNet.690    Fourteen years ago, this committee pioneered and Congress691passed landmark legislation with the Middle Class Tax Relief692and Job Creation Act of 2012, which established the First693Responder Network Authority and provided first responders with694a much-needed nationwide interoperable public safety broadband695network.696    For decades prior to FirstNet, there were far too many697instances of major communications failures that cost lives or698impeded emergency response. Before Congress created FirstNet,699first responders lacked dedicated access to spectrum and the700ability to connect regardless of congestion. Public safety701users instead relied on commercial telecommunications networks702that treated them no differently than everyday consumer703traffic.704    FirstNet has achieved incredible milestones in 14 short705years to serve the needs of public safety by awarding a706contract to a nationwide telecommunications carrier, completing707its initial build-out of the Band 14 network comprised of over70860,000 cell sites, and now serving tens of thousands of public709safety agencies as subscribers and millions of device710connections.711    Despite these major accomplishments, rigorous oversight of712the FirstNet Authority and the multibillion-dollar contract is713critical to protect first responders and taxpayer dollars. The714Department of Commerce Office of Inspector General has715performed significant review and evaluation of the FirstNet716Authority. The overarching theme across all of these inspector717general audits is a need for stronger and more systemic718contract oversight.719    As Congress looks to reauthorize FirstNet, NTIA stands720ready to support the committee with key reforms to the law721based on lessons learned from the past 14 years. For example, I722have witnessed how the FirstNet Authority's statutorily created723dotted line of independence has been a source of confusion and724misunderstanding since 2012.725    Recent OIG reviews and my own experience illustrate how726FirstNet's unclear lines of authority blur responsibility and727create friction between FirstNet management, the board, and728NTIA. Legislation should reform the structure of the FirstNet729Authority by making an NTIA line office similar to NTIA's other730existing line offices.731    To be clear, I know that some public safety groups and732stakeholders have expressed concerns with this proposed change,733but this reform would strengthen FirstNet's mission by enabling734clear oversight and more efficient stewardship of resources in735service to first responders. All of these savings will be736redirected into the network to benefit public safety.737    That said, I recognize that during a time of crisis, public738safety must act quickly. Stakeholders have expressed fears739about bureaucrats second-guessing decisions or delaying action.740That, of course, would be unacceptable. And NTIA appreciates741the draft text call to clarify what activities would need prior742approval from NTIA.743    However, other arguments against the removal of FirstNet744Authority independence appear to either misunderstand or745misstate the current lines of authority and blur the roles of746FirstNet Authority staff and the FirstNet Board. Importantly,747placing the authority clearly into NTIA would have no impact748whatsoever on the roles and responsibilities of the FirstNet749Board. In fact, NTIA believes that the forms being contemplated750by this committee would further strength the board by751staggering the board terms, driving continuity, and statutorily752adding additional public safety seats.753    It is often said that FirstNet is a public safety network754built for and by public safety. That is because of the755expertise imbedded in both the FirstNet Board and the Public756Safety Advisory Committee. NTIA has no interest in supplanting757that expertise. Instead, we rely on it every day.758    I strongly believe that we all share the same goal:759enhancing the public safety network for the benefit of public760safety. And I am confident that, working together in good761faith, we can get to a place where we can achieve that goal and762set public safety up for success for the next 10 years.763    I appreciate the thoughtful draft the committee has shared764with the public. I look forward to discussing these ideas765today.766    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.767    [The prepared statement of Mr. Dame follows:]768769[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]770771    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.772    Mr. Agnew, you are recognized for 5 minutes for an opening773statement.774775                    STATEMENT OF SCOTT AGNEW776777    Mr. Agnew. Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member Matsui, Chairman778Guthrie, Ranking Member Pallone, and members of the779subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before780you today.781    My name is Scott Agnew, and I serve as president of782FirstNet and Public Sector Mobility at AT&T. I am responsible783for ensuring AT&T fulfills its Federal obligation to deploy,784operate, and continuously evolve the FirstNet network for785America's first responders. AT&T strongly supports786reauthorization of FirstNet, and we support doing so well in787advance of early 2027.788    Thank you for your leadership and commitment to public789safety and for taking the crucial first steps of releasing790draft bipartisan legislation. We look forward to working with791you to ensure FirstNet continues to deliver for the vital first792responder community.793    FirstNet represents one of the most successful public-794private partnerships in modern infrastructure policy. In 2017,795AT&T was the only major carrier to answer Congress' call and796enter the competitive bidding process. Ultimately, AT&T was797selected over other bidders to build and operate this798nationwide public safety network. The network was completed on799time and on budget in March of 2023, and it continues to expand800and provide new lifesaving services.801    Since 2017, we have built out an interoperable network that802covers nearly 3 million square miles, making it hundreds of803thousands of square miles larger on average than commercial804networks. This is a critical advantage for rural, Tribal, and805remote communities. Today, despite other marketplace options,806more first responders choose FirstNet than any other network.807    This historic build was initially funded by the enacting808statute's allocation of $6.5 billion from auction proceeds, an809auction in which AT&T spent more than $18 billion. Going810forward, the statute requires permanent self-funding for811operations and expansion, which is achieved solely by AT&T812sustainability payments and additional capital contributions813from AT&T.814    Indeed, AT&T has demonstrated unparalleled commitment by815investing more than $14 billion of its own capital since the816beginning of the FirstNet partnership and expects to invest817approximately $40 billion of its own capital to build and818operate FirstNet over the life of the contract.819    The hallmark features of FirstNet are its dedicated network820core and its always-on priority preemption across Band 14 and821all of AT&T's 5G and LT commercial spectrum. That means public822safety can communicate when other networks are congested, like823during planned events, such as the Super Bowl in Louisiana or824natural disasters like hurricanes in North Carolina, Georgia,825and Florida as well as floodings in Texas or wildland fires in826California.827    As designed by Congress, the network will evolve based on828direct feedback from public safety. Because of self-sustaining829funding, the program has plans to invest more than $8 billion830over the next decade to evolve the network using public safety831feedback. This includes delivering a physically separated 5G832core, providing public safety grade direct-to-device satellite833connectivity, and FirstNet Fusion, the first mission critical834communications platform that will enable unprecedented835interoperability across agencies, carriers, and technologies.836    The true measure of FirstNet is performance during crisis.837During hurricanes Helene and Milton, FirstNet supported more838than 260 emergency requests across multiple States, restoring839coverage and sustaining public safety communications when840commercial networks are strained or unavailable.841    And during the assassination attempt of the President in842Butler, Pennsylvania, FirstNet performed exactly as designed.843While commercial networks experienced congestion, FirstNet844delivered uninterrupted service.845    During these and other mutual aid events, FirstNet is the846trusted partner that ensures reliable and interoperable847communications. These are not isolated examples. They are a848result of a network built specifically for and by public849safety.850    Congress made a bold and necessary decision when it created851FirstNet. The vision is now a reality, and it is working.852    AT&T appreciates the committee's bipartisan attention to853reauthorizing FirstNet. Thank you for the opportunity to854testify. I look forward to your questions.855    [The prepared statement of Mr. Agnew follows:]856857[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]858859    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.860    We will now begin questioning, and I recognize myself for 5861minutes.862    Sheriff Adkinson, in your opening statement, you mentioned863there is a lack of clarity about defined roles throughout this864program and that, quote, ``When everyone is responsible, no one865is accountable,'' end quote.866    Can you speak a little more about what you mean by that,867and can you give an example of some of the problems you have868encountered?869    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me870give you some very specific examples.871    The legislation did not contemplate an executive director.872It left that open to interpretation. As such, we as the board873of special governmental employees, whereas the executive874director in this case is a senior manager--frankly, it could875have been a private employee, it could have contracted, it876could have been a political appointee. There are multiple877iterations of that, but the reality is those folks are hired--878vetted, hired, rated, disciplined by NTIA, right, and it should879be in consultation with the board.880    But I have personally witnessed when the board has given a881directive that was not followed by the executive director. That882is beyond problematic. Again, I am sitting up here answering883for the accountability of someone else and I lack--so am I884telling you, or am I asking you? And those are two885fundamentally different--in my business, we say know your886authority. The first thing you do is you know your authority.887Those are two fundamentally different things.888    It is my belief that that causes a situation where there889is--unsure whether or not I will go to NTIA or I don't report890to NTIA. No, no, I don't report to the board. We need to891eliminate that.892    It needs to be--from my standpoint, it needs to be clear893that the board has the ability to hold someone accountable, at894least the executive director, from a standpoint that--again, if895the board says don't do this and it is a unanimous decision of896this board, I am not familiar with any other board in this kind897of situation that does not have that level of oversight.898    Keep in mind--I will say again--you have three Cabinet-899level officials that are represented on the FirstNet Authority900Board. So there is direct oversight on the board, as well as we901serve at the will and pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce.902That is--and the inspector general is on top of that. So that903is pretty direct oversight of the board.904    It is in the authority and the mechanism itself, but I905think we need to address that part of it.906    Mr. Hudson. That is very helpful. Thank you.907    Mr. Dame, this draft legislation moves FirstNet directly908under the leadership of NTIA. Some critics have claimed this909will increase bureaucratic delays and diminish effectiveness of910the network for public safety.911    Are these claims accurate? And if not, can you explain how912clarifying leadership roles will benefit this program?913    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. NTIA has no interest in914getting involved in the day-to-day operations of FirstNet915Authority or its contractor, AT&T. In fact, we will always rely916on the expertise and public safety input of the board and the917Public Safety Advisory Committee. Those strategic decisions918made by the board need to be implemented by the staff of the919FirstNet Authority.920    Where NTIA and the Department of Commerce can excel is to921support the implementation of those strategic decisions and922provide performance accountability as it is being implemented923and after the fact.924    Mr. Hudson. That makes sense.925    Mr. Agnew, Hurricane Helene hit my home State of North926Carolina, destroying a significant amount of telecommunications927infrastructure, as you noted in your testimony.928    Can you talk about the first 48 hours after an event like929this, and what first actions does FirstNet take to restore930service?931    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. First, we were significantly prepared and932engaged with the State in the planning event because we knew933the hurricane was coming and staged all across the State and934the surrounding States to be prepared.935    As I mentioned, we responded to 260 requests from public936safety--specific to your State, 125 requests--partnering,937imbedding with public safety, prioritizing where those938deployables or mobile sites need to go. And then post-event,939evaluating with public safety our response times and what940incremental investments we need to make. And we fundamentally,941post-Helene and Milton, made significant investments in our942network disaster recovery capabilities for public safety so we943can be prepared for the next event.944    Mr. Hudson. I appreciate that.945    As my time seems to be expiring, as I have said before, if946I don't hold myself accountable, Sheriff, I can't hold the rest947of the committee accountable. So I will ask unanimous consent948to insert in the record the documents, including the staff949hearing documents list.950    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]951    Mr. Hudson. And will now recognize the ranking member of952the committee, the gentlelady from California, Ms. Matsui, for9535 minutes to ask your questions.954    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.955    FirstNet now connects more than 1,800 agencies and956organizations across California, helping first responders957communicate when every second counts. But too many communities958still face cellular dead zones, especially in rural areas like959the California Delta. And the FirstNet coverage maps don't960always match what responders see on the ground. As we work to961reauthorize FirstNet, we must make sure rural communities are962fully covered and not left behind.963    Mr. Agnew, what is AT&T committing to build next to help964first responders reach the hardest-to-serve areas, and how much965of that plan is new ground infrastructure like towers versus966satellite-enabled coverage? And how will you prove that967coverage exists where first responders actually work?968    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congresswoman. We have an excellent969relationship with CAL FIRE, Cal OES, as you mentioned, and970California Highway Patrol, and other jurisdictions in the State971of California, and we continuously receive feedback. We build972our network based off of public safety feedback.973    But here is the advantage of this public-private974partnership: AT&T builds out its corporate network as we975determine, but because of all band priority and our investment,976public safety benefits from that. And then, of course, there is977the incremental FirstNet investment that has. And as I978mentioned, there is $8 billion happening, investing over the979next 10 years. That $8 billion is going to build approximately9803 to 4 thousand new towers, purpose-built towers based off the981feedback of public safety.982    There's been two workshops in your State, and they will983continue to be in Sacramento and San Diego, where public safety984can tell the FirstNet Authority exactly where those sites get985built. And so we are building those sites for public safety,986not because of profit or return on investment, and this is what987is special and unique about the program.988    Ms. Matsui. OK. Thank you very much.989    Mr. Dame, as Congress looks at reauthorizing FirstNet, how990should we strengthen incentives and accountability for991expanding coverage into rural and hard-to-serve areas? What992specific metrics and reporting should Congress require to993verify progress year to year?994    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Ranking Member. I think NTIA believes995strongly and the FirstNet Authority has been investing in only996those areas where it is not--for additional coverage where it997is not commercially profitable. That makes no sense. The market998is going to solve the problems where it is commercially999profitable. But public safety needs connectivity in those areas1000where there is not currently coverage. So FirstNet has been1001very good in its enhanced coverage to add in rural, Tribal1002lands, remote areas. It has been very focused on that.1003    In terms of the metrics, I believe the availability of the1004network and also the performance of the network will be the1005metrics that Congress should be looking at. We have all been at1006the edge of a cell site, and you have difficulty with1007throughput. We need to make sure that first responders don't1008encounter that same problem, because they do lifesaving work.1009It is not the same as when you and I are on a call or pushing1010data up or down.1011    Ms. Matsui. Sure. Thank you.1012    FirstNet reauthorization is our chance to do two things at1013the same time: keep FirstNet nimble and build around public1014safety input while also strengthening oversight and1015accountability.1016    Sheriff Adkinson, you call for Congress to clarify the1017chain of command amongst NTIA FirstNet Board and FirstNet1018Authority.1019    Which decisions must remain fast and internal, and which1020are appropriate for NTIA approval because of longstanding1021challenges with contract oversight and performance?1022    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you, Ranking Member. I think there1023are a couple of things to consider. One, when it comes to the1024indication of where sites, towers, or technology, I think that1025is a public-safety-driven metric. That should be decided by1026public safety, where towers should go, what advances in1027technology.1028    And by way of example, I don't think any of us in here were1029talking about the Internet of Things 10 years ago. I think one1030of my firefighters would tell you now or one of my deputy1031sheriffs would say there is a body camera, there is a Taser1032Cam, there is an in-car, there is a rocket, you know, or there1033are fire trucks. All of these are things we didn't even1034contemplate, you know, a decade ago.1035    Ms. Matsui. Sure.1036    Sheriff Adkinson. Those are the kind of decisions that1037should solely be indicated and driven forward by the board1038because that is your public safety expertise. And I don't1039think--I can say I don't think Mr. Dame would want to make a1040decision on where--what body camera, you know, data throughput1041we would be using.1042    So I think those are uniquely, with the advice of public1043safety, the input from the PSAC committee, where the board1044should stand out and make these decisions. What we say is there1045has to be an accountability factor to make sure that what is1046the actual will, again, of this board, is actually carried out.1047    Ms. Matsui. OK.1048    Sheriff Adkinson. I think that is critical.1049    Ms. Matsui. Well, thank you very much. And I need to follow1050my chairman's lead and not overrun here.1051    I yield back.1052    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.1053    I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr.1054Guthrie, for 5 minutes for your questions.1055    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Chair. Thanks for yielding, Mr.1056Hudson.1057    So first with Sheriff Adkinson, to kind of follow along1058what you were just saying. So the statute of limitations of the1059FirstNet network consists of network core and radio access1060network. So we are talking about how we didn't even discuss1061Internet of Things a decade ago.1062    How would you appropriately--how would appropriately1063expanding the definition of the network allow it to evolve with1064technological advancements?1065    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question, Chair1066Guthrie.1067    I should have added by way of just full disclosure, if I1068could have been qualified as a network engineer, I wouldn't1069have been a cop.1070    So the reality of it is that a lot of this stuff is1071emerging. We know that Moore's Law gives us about 18 months1072prior to obsolescence, and in that we need the flexibility to1073engage what emerging technology is coming. Artificial1074intelligence is going to change the way we mandate and the way1075we deliver these services, and I think the board needs to be1076able to drive that, you know, where we can leverage technology1077to make these things better.1078    But crucially, if nothing else comes across, let me say1079this: Coverage is king, because before--we need to do one thing1080well before we try to do 10 other things. And so I think that1081is also--nothing about what I say should take away from the1082desire to continue expanding that. And we are not abandoning1083LMR, land mobile radio. That is a redundancy that is absolutely1084critical to what we do.1085    But specific to your question, we need the ability to1086engage new technology and invest in things that support1087coverage enhancement of the quality of the service we are1088delivering.1089    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you.1090    And so getting the coverage is so important. So, Mr. Agnew,1091I know in 2024 we had the AT&T outage. FirstNet customers were1092notified of the outage 3 hours after it occurred, and the draft1093discussion is mandating 30 minutes to confirm.1094    Is that a reasonable timeline that you believe your company1095could comply with, and what other tools does AT&T provide1096FirstNet users to better understand outages?1097    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question, and thank you1098for your support of this public safety priority, Congressman.1099    Yes, we do think it is reasonable. We provide our first1100responders with what we call a network status tool that1101provides updates so they can know exactly what is going on. It1102was the world's first, where they can view on a map the1103performance of their network and if there are any impacts so1104that they can plan accordingly, as well as when it is going to1105be repaired. It is truly unprecedented transparency in public1106safety's network.1107    So, in short, Congressman, we do support a 30-minute1108notification.1109    Mr. Guthrie. OK. That is good.1110    And so, Mr. Dame, I will give you kind of a blanket1111question, but--so what will happen if this first responder1112network is not reauthorized?1113    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Chairman Guthrie. So I think we would1114run into a significant problem with, first, that there is--we1115need the certainty that the network would be reauthorized to1116make the network continue. But if it were not reauthorized by1117February 22, 2027, I believe you will not have an entity called1118the FirstNet Authority any longer, and the FCC would have to1119pull back the Band 14 license, which is the foundation of the1120contract with AT&T.1121    Mr. Guthrie. OK. So, Mr. Agnew, how would that affect you?1122    Mr. Agnew. Well, we have a 25-year contract with the1123Government. We would continue to operate that contract and make1124a commitment. But to Mr. Dame's point, the spectrum would be in1125question, and so that is the importance of really reauthorizing1126FirstNet, which is to protect public safety spectrum so it can1127be on the network.1128    Mr. Guthrie. OK. Thanks.1129    And, Sheriff, would you just kind of, just for us, since1130this is 15 years ago, can you have just like your highlight1131incident of, wow, if we didn't have FirstNet in this instance--1132I know you have had hurricanes, you have had other things. My1133good friend from Florida tells me that.1134    Could you just kind of highlight a specific instance of, if1135we hadn't had FirstNet, this would have been a bigger disaster1136and we wouldn't have been able to communicate?1137    Sheriff Adkinson. I could give you several, but I am going1138to stick with one, which was Hurricane Michael in 2019, as1139Representative Dunn knows very well. The ability to put1140deployable assets to bring cellular service back online was1141critical. It was something I personally witnessed. Previous to1142this, I was at Hurricane Katrina in 2005. I saw what happened1143when there is a fundamental collapse of communication.1144    So, yes, the short version is this is critical to the way1145we do business. My own agency went down and had to rely on1146FirstNet to dispatch calls.1147    Mr. Guthrie. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.1148    And my time has expired. I have 5 seconds, but I will1149yields those back. Thank you.1150    Mr. Hudson. I appreciate that, Chairman.1151    I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee,1152Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes to ask your questions.1153    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1154    Obviously, FirstNet is essential for first responders, and1155we have to ensure that continues to be the case. Having said1156that, there is no shortage of evidence indicating a pattern of1157questionable decision making by the First Responder Network1158Authority leadership.1159    For instance, decisions to weaken contract requirements to1160allow milestone payments to be disbursed to the Authority's1161contractor raised serious questions about the value of the1162Authority's independence, especially if that independence does1163not produce the best outcomes for public safety end users.1164    So let me ask a couple of questions of the sheriff.1165    Do you believe, as I do, that a more direct line of1166authority between NTIA and the FirstNet Authority would help1167increase accountability in some of the instances covered across1168the inspector general reports?1169    Sheriff Adkinson. I think that there are a couple of things1170here that I want to address, and I am going to bifurcate this.1171    First, when a decision by the board is not carried out by1172the executive director, you need to fire the executive1173director, right? And if the board is not carrying that out, you1174need to fire the board members. And so that is where I come1175down first.1176    Second part of that, it is in everyone's best interest for1177us to work well and closely with NTIA. I believe that is1178important for any level, any branch of government. But I start1179with accountability on this issue, and I think that is where1180there is a fundamental breakdown.1181    If you are going to have accountability, you have to have1182authority to make decisions, and if they didn't do it, then1183that is who should be held accountable. But I do believe in the1184cooperation and relationship with NTIA.1185    Mr. Pallone. All right. Now, you know, I believe Congress1186can maintain the important role to the FirstNet Board and still1187preserve the FirstNet Authority's autonomy, if you will, which1188is important to act with speed and precision, but then also1189tighten up some loose ends to ensure investments are put to the1190best possible use.1191    So, again, Sheriff, do you agree that we can achieve all1192these goals in this legislation, and what should the committee1193keep in mind as they think about these roles and1194responsibilities working well together towards a shared goal?1195    And, again, that is, you know, the role of the FirstNet1196Board, the operational autonomy, and tightening up some of1197these loose ends that keep coming up.1198    Sheriff Adkinson. So I told him I would give him authorship1199credit, but Mr. Dame said something the other day that I really1200liked, which is this idea of an elegant solution. The reality1201of it is that public safety has to drive where these1202investments go. I don't see it functioning otherwise. I see it1203being problematic.1204    I think there should be a close working relationship with1205NTIA. I think there are opportunities for this Congress to1206address lack of continuity in the way we have come on board, in1207the way we are doing business. So for sure I think that is1208something that matters.1209    I don't think any of these things should work in a vacuum,1210but when it comes to making decisions on the financial--and I1211don't think NTIA has ever suggested that they should determine1212where a tower goes or anything of that nature. So I think that1213is a good place for us to come down, is that the decisions on1214the financial placement of towers and things like that resides1215with the board and should maintain that in a public safety1216mindset. And it is my belief that when it comes to at least1217someone that the board can have some direct say and control1218over should be the executive director.1219    Mr. Pallone. OK. Now, much of the conversation about1220reauthorizing the FirstNet has rightly focused on the goal of1221interoperability--interoperability for first responders coming1222from different departments or agencies at various levels of1223government.1224    So I was going to ask, Mr. Agnew, if you could talk about1225the work being done on the Fusion application, how it could1226address some cross-network barriers that exist from push to1227talk and other mission critical capabilities. You have about a1228minute.1229    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman Pallone, and thank you1230for your support of the FirstNet program since inception.1231    The network is inherently interoperable today. That is the1232foundation, as you laid out, in the initial act.1233    From integration and interoperability with legacy, land1234mobile radio, or walkie-talkie solutions, FirstNet Fusion is1235going to make that even easier. Cross-carrier, cross-1236technology, cross-network. It puts it in the cloud. It makes it1237more affordable. It makes it more scalable. It makes it easier1238to implement. It just makes it easier for public safety to use1239the technology. It is coming in the next few months, and we are1240going to continue to advance Next Generation interoperability.1241    Mr. Pallone. And you are talking about the Fusion1242application?1243    Mr. Agnew. The Fusion. That is right.1244    Mr. Pallone. All right. All right, thank you.1245    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1246    Mr. Allen [presiding]. I thank the ranking member for1247yielding.1248    And now that I have the chair, I am going to call on myself1249for my line of questioning.1250    I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.1251    I learned 2 years ago just how important the ability to1252communicate during an emergency or natural disaster can be when1253Hurricane Helene tore through my district. I will never forget1254the first press conference with the Governor and the State1255director, and the first question the State director got was,1256``Where can people find out where we have shelter, food, and1257water?'' And he said, ``Go to our website.'' We had no1258internet. I realized then Congress has got to do something.1259    Since its inception, FirstNet has been an important1260resource for law enforcement and first responders in times like1261this, and considering its reauthorization gives us an1262opportunity to examine its effectiveness and transparency.1263    Mr. Agnew, I know FirstNet works as quickly as possible to1264restore connectivity, but can you walk me through how we are1265going to prevent these interruptions in the future and maybe1266use satellites and other redundancies so emergency responders1267can communicate effectively following a major disaster?1268    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman, for that question. So1269first, you start with the foundationally strong, hardened,1270network-dedicated core to have the highest reliability network1271you can, but then you have to add layers on top of that.1272    FirstNet, as you mentioned, with the Response Operations1273Group, have dedicated deployables or mobile cell sites that1274public safety can call out at any moment's notice. So if there1275is a challenge, it can be rectified quickly.1276    We also provide equipment, first of its kind, first in this1277world, High Power User Equipment, also known as MegaRange. Six1278times more powerful than a cell phone. So it can extend farther1279coverage using that technology.1280    And you mentioned satellite. It is going to be important.1281That is the next layer of being able to provide coverage either1282in white space or particularly if coverage has been1283compromised. We partner with many satellite companies:1284Inmarsat, AST, and Starlink. We have partnered specifically on1285direct-to-cellular capability with AST to deliver FirstNet1286service, like they say in the sky, and so to provide that1287hardened redundancy. So think of FirstNet network as a layered1288network.1289    Mr. Allen. Good. Thank you.1290    Mr. Dame, can you describe the current government structure1291of the FirstNet Authority and how NTIA ensures its board's1292actions align with statutory requirements and public safety1293promises and priorities?1294    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Vice Chairman. Under the current law,1295unfortunately, it is confusing as to different reporting lines,1296as it has been discussed in our various statements, but we1297defer very closely to the board in making strategic decisions1298about technology roadmaps, budget decisions, reinvestments. And1299they receive that input themselves from the Public Safety1300Advisory Committee and across all the public safety groups and1301the stakeholders.1302    And we are going to continue, as the draft bill suggests,1303to ensure that the strategic decisions continue to occur if1304Congress decides to reauthorize FirstNet and include the draft1305bill provisions.1306    Mr. Allen. Thank you.1307    Mr. Agnew, most of us are familiar with how government1308contracts work. As I understand it, AT&T's contract with1309FirstNet Authority is somewhat unique.1310    Can you walk us through and explain how you support the1311provision in this bill to submit the contract to Congress upon1312request?1313    Mr. Agnew. NTIA has made that available to the House E&C,1314and we will make it available. So we fully support the1315transparency. We fully support the oversight and will continue1316to do so.1317    Mr. Allen. Good. Thank you.1318    Well, Sheriff, I don't want to leave you out.1319    Do you have everything you need to deal with disasters? And1320what does Congress need to do to fix that?1321    Sheriff Adkinson. You know, I want to say this in a manner1322that somewhat makes sense. It is not the perfection. We don't1323have perfection there, right, but there is a beauty in the1324effort of perfection. And what I mean by that is we are getting1325there.1326    I think Congress has been incredibly supportive. I think1327the fee-based system has worked well from that. We continue to1328grow, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done for this1329to be done correctly, and ongoing work. But I appreciate the1330congressional support.1331    Mr. Allen. Yes, sir. Well, thank you. And I thank the1332witnesses again.1333    And now I yield my time, and I call on Representative Soto1334for his line of questioning.1335    Mr. Soto. Thank you so much, Chairman.1336    During hurricanes, flooding, fires, even recent freezes--if1337you can believe it, in Central Florida--reliable communication1338is critical for our brave first responders to save lives.1339    Congress stepped up, creating FirstNet with the spectrum1340sale proceeds, and we had an audacious goal, which is ensuring1341every community, no matter how rural, urban, or otherwise, has1342access to dependable communications. Every American deserves1343that protection.1344    I contacted some of our local Central Florida agencies and1345see that both the Osceola Emergency Management Department, city1346of Kissimmee, city of St. Cloud, Osceola Sheriff's Office,1347several cities in Polk County, as well as Polk County Sheriff1348utilize these services.1349    And hearing from my local emergency management director in1350Osceola, Bill Litton, he said, yes, emergency management uses1351FirstNet for our cell phone providers. We have had good1352experience with the service and the resources from FirstNet,1353that they can provide our county pre- and postdisaster. And he1354noted that last year FirstNet has added two additional towers1355in the area to improve reliability in service areas.1356    We also heard from Polk County that the overall feedback1357has been positive. Biggest improvement noted has been in areas1358where LT boosters have been installed, with better coverage and1359performance reported in those locations.1360    We also got a great feedback from Hurricane Milton as well1361with more than 30 FirstNet emergency support requests from1362public safety in Florida.1363    Sheriff Adkinson, thanks for being here. I know you talked1364a little bit about Hurricane Michael already. You know, a day1365after Hurricane Michael, I had texted Dr. Dunn to see how he1366was doing, and he got that text 4 months later and was like,1367``Why are you texting me now?''1368    You said your own internal network had gone down. Why do1369you think FirstNet held up during Hurricane Michael while a lot1370of the civilian and local law enforcement networks went down?1371    Knowing that categ--Hurricane Michael went from a Cat 1 to1372a Cat 5 in one day, why did FirstNet, you think, hold up?1373    Sheriff Adkinson. I think it was a question of volume of1374resources, right, the ability to put resources onsite, so even1375when they went down or any--listen, any system can fail. The1376ability to respond immediately and to have the assets, I think,1377was critical in being successful there. I think that is why.1378    You know, I think, as we were, as you said, looking for1379members of our local government as well as every other citizen1380at Hurricane Michael to try to assist, we were able to get1381these deployables in to make a difference and to boost that1382cell signal.1383    So at the end of the day, I think it is just an economy of1384scale that makes the most system--it is the redundancy. It is1385the resiliency of the system. The analogy for me, again, is1386still the Eisenhower interstate system. There may be better1387roads, but you can count on the interstate being there.1388    Mr. Soto. Mr. Agnew, you know, you mentioned some pretty1389big investment goals: $14 billion invested so far, $40 billion1390in total. Can you walk me through a little more on what that1391entails?1392    New towers, I know, was a key part, satellite redundancy.1393Can you give us a more clear picture of some of those1394investments?1395    Mr. Agnew. I think you are exactly right; it is going to be1396investment-significant in coverage--rural areas, underserved1397areas, Tribal areas.1398    Just alone in your district, 35 sites have been invested1399in. You had one site last year, you have more coming. You have1400three more coming this year----1401    Mr. Soto. Keep them coming.1402    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Based off of the feedback----1403    Mr. Soto. We have hurricanes in central Florida.1404    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. from your first responders.1405    Hardening of the network; generators; continuing to expand,1406as the sheriff mentioned, deployables and mobile cell sites1407that need to respond quickly.1408    We have to be prepared for every disaster. We have signed1409up for this oversight. No provider has this oversight. We have1410to answer the call, and we have to continuously improve.1411    So that investment is going to go--as well as the core. So1412it is significant technical investment to make sure public1413safety can communicate in the worst possible times.1414    Mr. Soto. And that is why that reauthorization before1415expiration is so critical, right? So you all can continue these1416investments----1417    Mr. Agnew. Right.1418    Mr. Soto [continuing]. Uninterrupted, in areas like ours,1419where we get natural disasters on occasion.1420    Mr. Agnew. Absolutely.1421    Mr. Soto. Thanks.1422    I yield back.1423    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.1424    And now I call on Mr. Bilirakis from Florida----1425    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you very much.1426    Mr. Allen [continuing]. For his line of questioning.1427    Mr. Bilirakis. Appreciate it very much. Thank you.1428    As a former member of the Homeland Security Committee,1429ensuring first responders have the necessary tools and1430resources they need to respond to emergencies has been a high1431priority of mine since coming to Congress.1432    In fact, I chaired a hearing on this very topic in 2012 on1433the Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and1434Communications. I know well how fragmented and clumsy public1435safety communications were 14 years ago. From that hearing,1436FirstNet was ultimately born, and I think it has been very1437successful.1438    Sheriff Adkinson, can you talk about the relationship that1439the FirstNet Authority Board has with the FirstNet executive1440director? And what is the process if there is a disagreement1441between the two of them? I think that is very important.1442    Sheriff Adkinson. Just a point of clarification.1443Relationship between what two entities? I missed that.1444    Mr. Bilirakis. Oh, OK. All right. So, again, the process--1445can you talk about the relationship that the FirstNet Authority1446Board has with the FirstNet executive director, and what is the1447process if there is a disagreement between them?1448    Sheriff Adkinson. Sure.1449    Just as a point of clarification again, the executive1450director is vetted, hired, rated by the NTIA. Now, that should1451be in consultation with the Board, and so we always encourage1452that to happen as well.1453    And no reflection on the current executive director, but I1454think when you will go back and look at it, that has been at1455the heart of what some of these issues are, if you look at1456these OIG reports, is the relationship between or the inability1457to hold accountable.1458    So I just think it is critical for us to have that1459authority to do that. They are technically an NTIA employee, as1460I understand it, under the law. They are a select senior1461management employee. They are not an employee of the Board--or,1462the executive director is not an employee of the FirstNet1463Board.1464    Mr. Bilirakis. OK. So, if there is a disagreement, who1465prevails?1466    Sheriff Adkinson. NTIA. I mean, they are ultimately who1467would--I mean, we would have to reach out to NTIA and say that1468we had an issue or a disagreement with them--which would put1469them, by the way, in a very unique position, because they don't1470supervise him, per se, every day.1471    So, if he decided, for instance--again, if he said, ``I1472won't carry out this order, executive order, or vote of the1473Board,'' you know, the situation would be I would have to call1474and ask for NTIA's assistance to make him comply with the1475request of the Board.1476    So I am asking, not telling, at that point.1477    Mr. Bilirakis. OK. Thank you.1478    Mr. Agnew, can you walk me through the AT&T decided--again,1479why they decided to take the risk to create this network,1480especially in light of the fact that previous State-run systems1481didn't work out so well?1482    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. AT&T has a history of working with public1483safety. We helped develop 9-1-1 in the late 1960s. We invest1484and we are the market leader in public safety answering points.1485It was natural. It was natural because when you invest in1486public safety, they invest in you back.1487    Now, we had a tremendous amount of risk. We did not know if1488States would all opt in. There is no mandate to adopt this1489network, so we didn't know public safety would come. And we are1490signing up for a huge contract with a tremendous amount of1491oversight that is unprecedented, where we have to meet 361492requirements, thousands of reports that can continue to evolve.1493    So there was a tremendous amount of risk. But we thought,1494if we invest and partner with public safety, that we can run a1495good business. And while I was nervous when we launched the1496network in September of 2017--we got our first subscriber from1497Fairfax County, Virginia, second subscriber from Casper,1498Wyoming--we realized it would work. And now we are here with a1499very successful network that public safety relies on every day.1500    Mr. Bilirakis. We appreciate that.1501    OK. Again, a followup question for Mr. Agnew.1502    Can you briefly explain the current public safety1503communications marketplace and how it has changed in the past150414 years?1505    And what problem has FirstNet solved, and what are areas1506that still need to be addressed?1507    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. I will just----1508    Mr. Bilirakis. I know that is a lot, and we only have a few1509seconds.1510    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Be brief.1511    FirstNet was the catalyst. Public safety was an underserved1512community that was ignored. It was just offered best-effort1513service. FirstNet puts public safety at the top.1514    FirstNet is needed to continue on, because you need that1515catalyst for the next decades to come to make sure public1516safety is paid attention to.1517    Mr. Bilirakis. All right. Thank you.1518    I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it.1519    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.1520    And now I call on Representative Clarke for her line of1521questioning.1522    Ms. Clarke. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1523    Good morning. Let me thank Chairman Guthrie, Ranking Member1524Pallone, Ranking Member Matsui for holding this hearing.1525    And thank you to our panel of witnesses for joining us1526today.1527    Let me also extend my gratitude to Congresswoman McClellan1528and Congressman Dunn for their work in putting together a good-1529faith, bipartisan bill to reauthorize this critical public1530safety program.1531    As a New Yorker and a former member of the New York City1532Council who took office in January of 2002, mere months after1533the devastating attacks of September 11th, this issue is truly1534personal for me. I know all too well the importance of strong1535public safety communications networks.1536    Our first responders are on the front lines in responding1537to terrorist attacks, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes, and1538other natural disasters. We owe it to them to provide a1539reliable communications network free from interference in times1540of crisis when they are putting their lives on the line to save1541others.1542    The firefighters, police, and other first responders to the15439/11 attacks dealt with communications failures that undermined1544their ability to coordinate rescue/recovery efforts in a way1545that must never happen again.1546    From that great tragedy and the recommendations of the 9/111547Commission, the First Responder Network Authority was born.1548Since its launch in 2017, FirstNet has been adopted in all 501549States, the District of Columbia, and 6 territories. Billions1550have been spent building out the network to cover nearly 31551million square miles, and first responders across the country1552now use the network to enhance communications and leverage data1553capabilities.1554    The success of FirstNet has also sparked competition in the1555market, inspiring other carriers, such as T-Mobile and Verizon,1556to create their own products that are now successfully serving1557public safety subscribers. This has been a win-win for the1558industry and the public safety community at large.1559    While no government program is perfect, it is clear that1560FirstNet has been wildly successful, and it is critical that we1561move forward with legislation that preserves FirstNet's1562authority to operate beyond the upcoming sunset date.1563    As with any program, proper oversight is critical to1564ensuring accountability. And I am confident that this committee1565can find a path forward that allows us in Congress to move with1566haste towards the reauthorization necessary to provide1567certainty to the public safety community while also ensuring1568that any concerns raised by the Office of the Inspector General1569and Government Accountability Office are also addressed1570adequately.1571    My question is to you, Sheriff Adkinson. In your view, does1572FirstNet Authority currently have sufficient personnel1573resources to implement the corrective actions or improvements1574identified in recent inspector general reports?1575    Sheriff Adkinson. I think we would be well-served to1576increase our field operations in regard to outreach at the1577local agencies, right? Because we ultimately have to rely on1578our public safety professionals to say, ``Is this working?1579Where are there shortcomings?''1580    So I think there is opportunity to increase there. I like1581the idea of adding things like a strategic office to be looking1582forward to the future to understand what we need to be doing.1583    So there are a couple of areas where I think it is1584appropriate to expand, but there may be appropriate areas to1585contract, as well, too. One does not necessarily mean adding1586others.1587    But I do believe, from an area of accountability, we are1588not served well if we are not out meeting with the men and1589women of public safety all across the country.1590    And I would point out, when we make decisions on--let's1591just say we were going to expand to a Tribal area. That is not1592commercially viable for AT&T in some times. But I am not in the1593business of worrying what is commercially viable for them. I am1594in the business of making sure this gets done and serves the1595citizen. That is what the Board is about. So I think----1596    Ms. Clarke. Very well.1597    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. We are working that way.1598    Ms. Clarke. Very well.1599    Can you explain why it is so important for the Board of1600FirstNet to have a role free from outside interference? And1601what does that mean specifically for reinvestment and public1602safety representation? Do you believe the Board can continue to1603do its work while also working collaboratively with the NTIA1604for the benefit of first responders?1605    Sheriff Adkinson. First of all, I fundamentally believe1606that there is no reason that anyone can't work collaboratively1607inside. We all have the same bosses, right? At the end of the1608day, that is the citizens we serve. And we are stewards of the1609citizens' trust and money. And I realize these are fee-based,1610but let me be clear: It is the public's money, in my opinion,1611and we have that responsibility.1612    I think we can work collaboratively toward that. I think1613what is crucial is that no interference be made in the way1614funds are expended to enhance public safety. That would be1615problematic. I haven't actually heard that suggested, so I want1616to be clear. But that would be problematic for me. I think it1617would be problematic for public safety at large and--but that1618hasn't happened, and I don't believe that that will happen.1619    If it did, I think that would be something the Board would1620have an absolute moral responsibility to stand up and say so.1621    Ms. Clarke. Thank you.1622    I have run out of time. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.1623    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentlelady for yielding.1624    And now I call on Dr. Dunn for your questions, 5 minutes.1625    Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1626    And, Sheriff Adkinson, thank you for being here today. I1627know it is hard to leave Florida, it is so beautiful.1628    I urge my colleagues to support this bipartisan bill, the1629First Responder Network Reauthorization Act. And I thank1630Representative Jennifer McClellan for her colead on this.1631    Jennifer, thank you. This is a great bill.1632    When Congress created the First Responder Network1633Authority, there was a clear mandate to have a public safety1634preempted network that would be used exclusively for first1635responders on the ground. Interestingly, this also includes1636Members of Congress and even the Senate.1637    Our Nation's heroes and public servants who are the first1638to respond and the first people to put their lives on the line1639to protect Americans need robust communications. It was a very1640clear mandate to give our local communities the resources they1641need to respond to tragedies.1642    And what we have seen since 2017 when the contract was1643awarded has been a tremendous success story. We have also1644learned some lessons, that our job in Congress as enforcers and1645oversight of the program is critical. And that includes1646contract transparency and maintaining accountability at all1647levels, so I thank Chairman Sheriff Adkinson for emphasizing1648that.1649    FirstNet is imperative to the Florida Panhandle before,1650during, and after disasters. Our district knows all too well1651the effects of hurricanes and tropical storms in our1652communities. We have been hit by 4 major hurricanes in the last16538 years. We are still rebuilding and recovering from Hurricane1654Michael.1655    Mr. Agnew, first question: FirstNet was directed to provide1656nationwide interoperability. Briefly, what steps have you taken1657to solve the interoperability issue to ensure agencies using1658other carriers can still communicate during emergencies?1659    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman, and thank you for your1660support of this legislation.1661    FirstNet is interoperable, let me be clear. It was designed1662to be interoperable from the ground up. Data, voice, text1663message--you can work amongst commercial carriers.1664    The next phase of interoperability is ensuring that land1665mobile radios or walkie-talkies--those legacy radio systems--1666are interoperable. And so that is--when I had mentioned1667earlier, FirstNet Fusion is going to allow for that to be more1668seamless and easier to use.1669    Mr. Dunn. So I like to think that we have solved the1670confusion of interoperability here. I mean, interoperability1671means everybody can operate on it, right?1672    Mr. Agnew. That--interoperability means we can----1673    Mr. Dunn. I didn't think we needed a dictionary on that.1674    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Talk amongst each other, right?1675    Mr. Dunn. Sheriff Adkinson--Chairman Adkinson, thank you1676for your service.1677    You stated, as Board chair, the roles and responsibilities1678of NTIA, the Board, and the Authority are not well-defined in1679statute. When everybody is held responsible, nobody is1680responsible, all right?1681    And, Mr. Dame, you had a similar statement as well.1682    Sheriff, in your opinion, how should Congress clarify this1683statute?1684    And, Mr. Dame, I want you to answer afterwards.1685    Sheriff Adkinson. So, you know, that is tyranny of the1686commons, right? It becomes everybody's responsibility when it1687is no one's.1688    You know, when we first came on the Board, there was some1689reticence to give the Board members access to information that1690we believed was fundamentally necessary to do that. Now, we1691were able to ultimately achieve that, but there should be no1692hesitation. When it comes to an executive director, when a1693Board asks for information--i.e., the contract, i.e.,1694discussions about what agencies are on the--the only answer,1695acceptable answer, is yes. And so, when it is not, we have got1696a problem.1697    And so I believe fundamentally that, again, if I am going1698to sit at this table and answer for the conduct of that, then I1699should have the authority to make decisions on who that person1700is and whether or not they are performing their job.1701    Mr. Dunn. Thank you for that.1702    Mr. Dame, briefly. We are running out of time.1703    Mr. Dame. Yep.1704    NTIA agrees with what Sheriff Adkinson is describing, in1705that the Board is of paramount importance, along with the1706Public Safety Advisory Committee. They should still be making1707strategic decisions about reinvestments and strategic roadmaps,1708and NTIA can help with the implementation and performance1709accountability.1710    Mr. Dunn. Well, I would like to think this bill will help1711you with that.1712    And in the last few seconds we have, are there local,1713Federal, or permitting requirements that have inhibited1714FirstNet's tower deployment in rural areas?1715    Mr. Dame?1716    Mr. Dame. I think you might want to get Mr. Agnew's input,1717sir.1718    Mr. Dunn. Mr. Agnew?1719    Mr. Agnew. Allowing--changing permitting to make public1720safety towers to be built more quickly would help the public1721safety network.1722    Mr. Dunn. All right. Well, please keep us informed.1723    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired, and1724I yield back.1725    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.1726    And now I would call on Representative Ruiz for your line1727of questioning.1728    Mr. Ruiz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1729    I represent California's 25th District, which includes1730desert, rural communities, Tribal lands, agricultural regions,1731and some of the country's most extreme weather, extreme heat1732conditions, in the southeast corner of California. In the1733Coachella and Imperial Valley, summer temperatures routinely1734exceed 110 degrees Fahrenheit for days, even weeks, and at1735times reaches up to 130, straining power and communication1736systems. Frequent dust storms, sometimes multiple times a1737month, reduce visibility and damage critical equipment with1738little warning.1739    First responders operate far from major infrastructure1740during wildfires, dust storms, power shutoffs, and prolonged1741extreme heat that pushes both people and systems to their1742limits. For these communities, reliable emergency1743communications are not a convenience, they are lifesaving.1744    That is why reauthorizing the First Responder Network1745Authority, or FirstNet, is so important. FirstNet ensures that,1746when everything else fails, first responders can still1747communicate.1748    This bill recognizes that FirstNet is no longer an1749experiment but critical national infrastructure that must be1750governed, monitored, and strengthened. I appreciate that it1751reauthorizes FirstNet through 2037, providing long-term1752stability while focusing on reliability, transparency, and1753equity.1754    And reliability is my first concern. Extreme heat and1755frequent dust storms place constant stress on communication1756systems, power outages last longer, equipment fails more often,1757and response times stretch.1758    So, Mr. Agnew, in areas like mine facing extreme heat, dust1759storms, and wildfires, how does FirstNet keep service running1760during extended power outages and equipment strain?1761    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question.1762    We continue to harden the site generators using our1763deployable program when there is a problem that comes out. We--1764--1765    Mr. Ruiz. How long does it take to send--you said1766``deployable.'' How long does it take to send generators, and1767how close are those generators to the southeast corner of1768California?1769    Mr. Agnew. We can get the specific locations to your1770district of how far. But we stage our generators, stage our1771deployables within access to get to first responders quickly.1772We have requirements to execute that per the contract to meet1773delivery of those.1774    Mr. Ruiz. OK.1775    This bill takes important steps by requiring regular1776business continuity and disaster recovery plans subject to1777Federal approval. This matters because failures during1778wildfires, dust storms, or outages put lives at risk. And we1779need to know how quickly FirstNet recovers and whether service1780is available for rural and Tribal communities, not just big1781cities.1782    So transparency is my next concern. Responders need real-1783time, accurate information. This bill's outage notification and1784status tool requirements are a meaningful improvement, but1785transparency only works if the information is timely and1786accessible during an active emergency.1787    Mr. Agnew, again, when an outage occurs, how quickly does1788that information reach first responders in the field, not just1789agency leadership?1790    Mr. Agnew. Right. So we are working, continuing to evolve1791that communication step. As we mentioned, the network status1792tool provides information in near-realtime so leadership and1793individuals in public safety can make decisions quickly.1794    Ensuring that communication gets down to the working level,1795we are continuing to work with public safety. There is an1796opportunity for users to actually sign up on notifications via1797text and via email. And so it is a continual educational1798process that we have to do.1799    But we acknowledge, more communication. The tools are1800there, though. It has already been built.1801    Mr. Ruiz. OK.1802    Sheriff Adkinson, are outage notifications reaching first1803responders quickly enough?1804    Sheriff Adkinson. I don't think it is ever quick enough1805unless it is instantaneous, right? We seek--again, we go back--1806we seek for the perfection. But I think it is getting there1807very, very quickly.1808    Is there room for improvement? I think there is always room1809for improvement. Instantaneous would be the only acceptable1810answer. Everything else requires improvement.1811    Mr. Ruiz. And so what accountability measures exist if1812outage notifications are delayed or incomplete?1813    Sheriff Adkinson. So a couple of things.1814    One, we are typically able to notify fairly quickly. When I1815say ``fairly quickly,'' I mean in a matter of 10 to 15 minutes1816based on, you know, what the availability and what the area of1817outage is.1818    But I would add to that that we as a board are starting to1819develop key performance indexes that we wanted to put in place1820as measurables so that AT&T can give us direct response into1821things that we think are important past what has been done in1822the past.1823    So this is part of this idea of we need more1824accountability, more metrics to show. That is something the1825Board is going to do. We are already looking at that. And I1826think that is critically important to make sure we are getting1827our money's worth out of it.1828    Mr. Ruiz. Thank you.1829    I yield back.1830    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.1831    And now I call on Representative Pfluger from the great1832State of Texas for your questions.1833    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1834    Appreciate the witnesses for being here, and a very1835important conversation that we are having. It is obviously1836important to Texas after the flooding of last July, and that1837is, you know, one of the many examples I think we can point to1838of why FirstNet is so critically important.1839    And my perspective will come, kind of, from the--not just1840the Energy and Commerce lane but also from the Homeland1841Security perspective as well.1842    So I will start with Mr. Agnew.1843    And thank you for being here.1844    I want to talk about just assessing who is on the network,1845assessing which local and State partners have access.1846    And, you know, if we wanted to know which folks in our area1847were currently accessed, how does that work? And if we don't1848have all the information, then what do we need to do, either1849via statute or some other means, to know that information?1850    Mr. Agnew. We appreciate that question. And we continue to1851work with first responders to allow us to communicate who is on1852the network. We understand it is so important from a mutual-aid1853perspective, defining ``mutual aid'' as when one county goes to1854another county to support.1855    And we are working with the Authority for a process to more1856seamlessly get the approvals from each of the public safety1857agencies to say, ``Yes, you can use my name.'' Right now, there1858are restrictions for our ability to do that through the FCC1859proprietary network information, but we are working1860collaboratively with the Authority to make sure that will1861happen.1862    It is so important for public safety to know that they are1863on the network, so we see the value in it.1864    Mr. Pfluger. Do you think that is something in the1865reauthorization that we need to add to the statute provisions,1866which is kind of a transparency piece of who is on?1867    Mr. Agnew. Because I think--because both AT&T and the1868FirstNet Authority are in agreement that this needs to be done,1869I don't think it is necessary to add it in, but it is something1870that we are working on.1871    Mr. Pfluger. OK. Yeah, we will continue to look at that,1872because I think that is key. And, you know, just knowing who is1873on the net----1874    Mr. Agnew. Right.1875    Mr. Pfluger [continuing]. Who is, you know--as a fighter1876pilot, it is like, who is on?1877    Mr. Agnew. That is right.1878    Mr. Pfluger. And who are we talking to?1879    Mr. Agnew. That is right.1880    Mr. Pfluger. And who is not on, more importantly.1881    Mr. Agnew. Right.1882    Mr. Pfluger. So thank you for that.1883    I represent AST in Midland, Texas, and proud of the work1884that they are doing to deliver, you know, another domain of1885connectivity. And I think that that layer helps in remote1886areas, especially like we experienced during the flooding.1887    I think the Senate held a hearing, and the relationship1888with AT&T and AST was raised last week. So I would love to1889hear, you know, any details that you are willing to talk to us1890about with that relationship and how it relates to FirstNet1891and, you know, another layer of connectivity.1892    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question, Congressman.1893    The beauty of this public-private partnership is, when AT&T1894makes an investment, a FirstNet user takes advantage of it. And1895so the investment that actually is being made in AST is AT&T.1896    Now, my group works back with AT&T, and we ensure that1897anything that is deployed from AT&T meets the needs of first1898responders. So when AST goes up, when it fully launches, it1899will be for first responders, a version. It will have priority,1900preemption. We talk about push-to-talk, mission critical. It1901will go well beyond texting.1902    And we are excited. We are going to open--at the end of1903this month, we are going to open up customers signing up for1904trials specific to public safety, and it is going to launch1905first with public safety customers, specifically FirstNet1906customers.1907    And we are more than happy to talk to any Member in detail1908about specifically what the service will offer.1909    Mr. Pfluger. That is fantastic. It is another domain,1910especially in rural America, that will help provide that1911connectivity.1912    Sheriff, thank you for your service. I was stationed at1913Tyndall Air Force Base, just to the east of you, for many1914years, and want to talk about a couple of things.1915    The relationship between the FirstNet CEO, the Board, and1916NTIA--my understanding is that the Board and the chair provide1917recommendations and strategic guidance to the CEO, but those1918are not necessarily binding. And, in practice, this could mean1919that the CEO doesn't necessarily have to, you know, follow some1920of the recommendations.1921    A, is that accurate? And, then, in your time as Board1922chair, have there been instances where recommendations maybe1923didn't necessarily get to the goal line?1924    Sheriff Adkinson. I think because the position of chief1925executive--or, the position of executive director wasn't1926originally contemplated and it left that ambiguity, that the1927executive director can--and, quite frankly, in the past has--1928again, directly went against what was the will of the Board.1929    I will be specific. There was a multimillion-dollar task1930order, which we said--now, I want to be clear, not the current1931executive director--but that we said--we, as the Board--based1932on an executive order from the President of the United States1933that we considered to be binding to FirstNet, should not have1934been signed. That was against the will of the Board. Whatever1935rationale, whatever reason that was, it just didn't--it didn't1936work for us.1937    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you.1938    My time has expired.1939    AT&T, thank you for taking the initiative on this and1940fielding something that is super-important.1941    I yield back.1942    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.1943    And now I call on Representative Peters for your questions.1944    Mr. Peters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1945    In Congress we have the responsibility to enable our first1946responders to make the best decisions to keep our communities1947safe through natural disasters and other emergency events. The1948First Responder Network Authority was created in 2012 to1949oversee Nationwide Public Safety Broadband Network in support1950of this goal.1951    First responders like San Diego Police Department and San1952Diego Fire and Rescue in my district use the FirstNet network,1953which provides them with coverage throughout the region as well1954as a guarantee of priority and preemption services in the case1955of heavy congestion and use.1956    In addition to using FirstNet services in case of1957disasters, San Diego's first responders also use FirstNet1958deployable assets for planned events that strain our local1959network.1960    Last summer, first responders in San Diego had the1961opportunity to meet with FirstNet representatives to discuss1962ongoing concerns and opportunities for improvement, like dead1963zones in areas with poor connections.1964    Sheriff Adkinson, I want to just say first to you and to1965everyone, thank you for that engagement.1966    How do you engage with and respond to coverage concerns1967from the first responder on the ground?1968    And, Sheriff, are there any particular themes you hear out1969of those meetings?1970    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question. It is1971actually a very relevant question because the Authority has1972carried out coverage and enhancement workshops across the1973country--we are just wrapping some of those up now--where we1974meet with the members of that community and say, ``Where are1975our shortcomings?''1976    And then we get a priority list from them that says, ``This1977is where we believe we need assistance, where things need to be1978improved.'' It is a big list. It is a big country--1979    Mr. Peters. Have you seen particular major themes come1980across that, or----1981    Sheriff Adkinson. For sure. I think there are two things1982that come almost immediately.1983    Obviously, your rural areas are underserved, and that is1984part of our emphasis.1985    The other thing is, when we are talking about inside of1986buildings and things of that nature where we have1987infrastructure problems, that we need to straighten it----1988    Mr. Peters. OK.1989    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. That we need to strengthen1990that.1991    So those two things are pretty unanimous, that, you know,1992where we have these difficult terrains----1993    Mr. Peters. All right.1994    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. Or the buildings themselves1995sometimes become problematic.1996    But that is how we identify. We have to meet with these1997people to identify it.1998    Mr. Peters. Great. Thank you.1999    So my district is not rural. It is mostly urban and2000suburban. We have fewer issues with coverage. We have more2001struggles with capacity. There are communities that lack2002coverage, leaving the public safety community without the tools2003to coordinate and communicate with others in times of2004emergency.2005    So it might be difficult to balance those needs, but I2006wonder, what insight can you give me on how you make your2007reinvestment decisions? How do you balance capacity, the2008ability to serve--the quantity, versus coverage?2009    Sheriff Adkinson. We rely very heavily on our Public Safety2010Advocacy Committee and what the locals there in those2011communities say.2012    So, again, the issue is always going to be, we are looking2013at what New Hampshire needs, we look at what California needs,2014we look at what Michigan needs, and then try to make the best2015educated decision to say, ``This is the priority list.''2016    But that almost is fundamentally based on where the most2017immediate needs are at, and there are a lot of competing needs.2018To your point, in a city--you know, I have spent a lot of time2019in Florida's capital, in Tallahassee, and there were times that2020we were struggling inside the Department of Law Enforcement's2021building. Well, Department of Law Enforcement needs to be able2022to speak on FirstNet, right? They are on it. So we got in there2023and we got this resolved.2024    Mr. Peters. Right.2025    Sheriff Adkinson. But it is a modern building in a modern2026city.2027    So it is very difficult. We just try to prioritize based on2028what is the most pressing need.2029    Mr. Peters. Those decisions are made regionally?2030    Sheriff Adkinson. Pardon?2031    Mr. Peters. Region by region?2032    Sheriff Adkinson. They are made by State, and then the2033Board, at the advice of the--with the PSAC, the Public Safety2034Advocacy Committee----2035    Mr. Peters. OK.2036    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. Kind of forms the teams and2037say, ``OK, this is the way we are going to do it.'' But it2038doesn't necessarily--it could all be in one particular area if2039that was the most pressing need.2040    Mr. Peters. I have a sense of how we would respond to the2041coverage issues in the rural areas, but maybe I could follow up2042with you on, what about buildings? What are the kinds of things2043we should look forward to hearing about in terms of trying to2044solve coverage and accessibility within buildings?2045    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely critical. As I said, we were2046struggling with coverage inside the Department of Law2047Enforcement building. We recently resolved the Louisiana State2048Police's problem at their training ground. And we have to be2049aware, we have to know that is going on and then try to2050prioritize that.2051    But buildings, we just did one in Tarrant County, Texas--2052the same thing. In a skyscraper we had this problem.2053    So these are things that's really of equal footing. We2054think traditional towers and satellites and things like that.2055Sometimes it is bidirectional antenna. Sometimes it is2056strengthening. A lot of different avenues to get there.2057    Mr. Peters. Mr. Agnew, I will give you an opportunity to2058respond to that as well.2059    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for the question.2060    In urban areas, the sheriff is right, in-building. But we2061have developed what we call Cell Booster Pros, FirstNet Band206214-capable devices. We have instituted it in thousands of2063buildings. So, during the coverage workshop, that process2064occurs.2065    So it is not just your macro----2066    Mr. Peters. Right.2067    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. It is your in-buildings. So we are2068deploying technologies to help that in-building area.2069    Mr. Peters. OK. Thank you.2070    It is an important program. Thank you all for your work.2071    And I yield back.2072    Mr. Hudson [presiding]. Thank you.2073    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Virginia, Mr.2074Griffith, for 5 minutes for your questions.2075    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much.2076    I had similar questions to my colleague from California, on2077the other side of that coin. I represent a large, mountainous,2078rural district.2079    So, Sheriff Adkinson, I am coming to you. And you touched2080on some of it in your opening and in your comments to2081Representative Peters.2082    But, I mean, my district is larger than nine States by2083landmass, even though I am in Virginia. Most people don't2084realize that Virginia is as big as it is. And I represent a big2085chunk of the mountains in Virginia, and we don't even have cell2086coverage in all those areas. Depending on which way the2087mountain leans or where you happen to be on the road, you can2088have some significant holes in areas that people wouldn't2089realize.2090    I mean, it hasn't happened lately, but even a few miles2091outside of Blacksburg, in Virginia Tech, there were times not2092that long ago where people were like,``Yeah, we don't have a2093signal,'' even though it is one of the most wired communities2094in Virginia.2095    So, when you are looking at all this--and you have gone2096into it a little bit, but--what is the criteria that you all2097use to select sites for FirstNet equipment?2098    I know there are a lot of problems and you have a lot of2099different issues, whether it is buildings or mountains. In2100Representative Peters' district it is the buildings, in mine it2101is the mountains.2102    Sheriff Adkinson. Amen. Yes, sir.2103    You know, forgive me if I quote Rousseau on this, but don't2104let perfect be the enemy of better.2105    Mr. Griffith. There you go.2106    Sheriff Adkinson. What we are trying to do is say, where2107can we solve the most impact as quickly as possible until we2108can get back and make it perfect, right, to continue to make it2109better?2110    We just did some in the mountains recently, and I--you2111might find this hard to believe, but Florida is a very flat2112State. And I think we are at, you know--2113    Mr. Griffith. I have noticed that when visiting your2114beaches, sir.2115    Sheriff Adkinson. I am actually at the tallest point, and2116it is about 160 feet, just so you know.2117    But the reality--all joking aside, the reality of it is, we2118try to prioritize on where can we have the most impact and what2119modality is the best, right? So it may be the satellite, it may2120be the tower, it may be the booster, whichever that is.2121    But there is an emphasis given on those places that do not2122have coverage first. So the problem is, I give you coverage,2123and you go, ``Well, maybe it is not as good as it needs to be2124yet.''2125    But nobody from this Authority or certainly this board2126should ever tell you to switch to FirstNet if it does not work2127sustainably for you. You will never hear a board member say2128that. That is not our job to do that. It is to support the2129American people.2130    Mr. Griffith. Yeah.2131    And I know you mentioned earlier, in your county, one of2132the hurricanes. When we got hit with Helene a year and a piece2133ago, a big section of my district was--I mean, law enforcement2134and everybody was out of touch with anybody else because we2135lost--for various reasons, we lost cell coverage across a big2136swath of my district.2137    So let's talk about these planned--you mentioned, and2138several others have as well--you mentioned the planned Coverage2139Enhancement Workshops, and I would like to know what that2140entails.2141    And, as a part of that, I would like to know if you have2142any planned for south side or southwest Virginia. Because, you2143know, all politics is local. What are you doing in my district?2144    Sheriff Adkinson. I am actually intimately familiar with2145that, Representative.2146    No, the short version is yes. We listen to the2147representatives from your State to tell us where you think is2148the priority, where do you believe that it should be first, and2149what can most correct your problems fastest.2150    So you have had that Coverage--I know for a--you have had a2151Coverage Enhancement Workshop in your State. And we took those2152recommendations--I apologize, I will have to get back with you2153on the specifics of that. That has been done.2154    Mr. Griffith. And I appreciate that. And here is the2155concern that happens--2156    Mr. Agnew. Congressman?2157    Mr. Griffith. And I appreciate--I will get to you in just a2158second.2159    I appreciate that you have had something in the State. Here2160is the problem: I have counties in my district that are closer2161to seven other State capitals than they are to Richmond. So, if2162you are not actually on my end of the State, you might not be2163getting the same picture, because they sometimes--and they try2164their hardest, I am not fussing--but sometimes they don't2165understand what is happening out in the mountainous areas,2166because, I mean, from Richmond to the end of my district is2167about 10, 10\1/2\ hours. So they are a lot closer to the2168capital of, as I said, seven or nine other States.2169    Get back to me on that.2170    And then you wanted to say something, Mr. Agnew.2171    Mr. Agnew. Yes, Congressman. I just----2172    Mr. Griffith. You have about 45 seconds.2173    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. And I will be fast.2174    Your district has been a major focus. You have----2175    Mr. Griffith. Great.2176    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Thirty sites that have been built.2177    Mr. Griffith. How many?2178    Mr. Agnew. Thirty have been built.2179    Mr. Griffith. That is fabulous. Thanks.2180    Mr. Agnew. And 7 of them--or, 14 of them were part of the2181opt-in process, where public safety you have to build here or2182Virginia is not opting in.2183    In the coverage workshops, there are seven identified areas2184in your network. There is a partnership with your local telecom2185and electric provider. That is how Lee County is getting2186service. So this network is designed for your first responders.2187    Mr. Griffith. All right. I am going to go over a minute or2188two, and I apologize, Mr. Chairman.2189    When you talk about Lee County, is that when we went down2190there for the tower that they put up in Lee County? I think you2191put a couple of them up there.2192    Mr. Agnew. That is correct.2193    Mr. Griffith. That was fabulous. It not only gave us the2194first responders, but it gave us the first time in that part of2195the county we had any cell coverage.2196    I yield back.2197    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2198    The Chair now recognizes Representative Dingell for 52199minutes to ask your questions.2200    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2201    And thank you to the witnesses for being here.2202    I want to take a moment to underscore just how essential2203FirstNet is for public safety in Michigan. It is a lifeline for2204first responders.2205    In my district, the Ann Arbor Fire and the University of2206Michigan Health System rely on it every day. At the University2207of Michigan, nurses use iPads connected to FirstNet to ensure2208they remain prioritized above commercial networks during2209emergencies so they can communicate when it matters most.2210    More than 950 public safety agencies and organizations in2211Michigan use FirstNet, supported by over 1,850 Band 14 sites.2212In my district alone, there are more than 10,000 FirstNet2213subscribers. And, nationwide, the network now supports more2214than 7 million connections and covers nearly 3 million square2215miles.2216    Across Michigan, police, fire, EMS, and other first2217responders turn to FirstNet not just for connectivity but for2218operational reliability. They use it to restore communication2219during severe weather, coordinate rescues using push-to-talk2220and real-time data, and improve indoor coverage.2221    And, as our emergency response needs grow, we have to2222ensure that FirstNet stays secure, resilient, and2223interconnected with other emergency communications. And that is2224why this reauthorization matters and why it is so important we2225get it right.2226    So FirstNet's value is clearest when everything else fails.2227In Michigan, we saw FirstNet play a critical role during severe2228weather and search-and-rescue operations in the Upper2229Peninsula, where a FirstNet satellite cell on a light truck2230helped coordinate the response that led to the safe recovery of2231a missing 8-year-old after nearly 50 hours.2232    Sheriff Adkinson, can you speak to why it is critical for2233Congress to reauthorize FirstNet to ensure first responders2234have reliable, resilient communications?2235    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.2236    Absolutely fundamentally necessary.2237    I will use my own organization again. We are on what was2238called the State Law Enforcement Radio System. That system2239temporarily went down. It is not supposed to go down. It went2240down. But because we made the decision when Florida opted in2241under Governor Scott, I think in 2018--we made that decision2242that any infrastructure we built was going to have a FirstNet2243backup--we were able to go from the failure of our land mobile2244radio to dispatching calls. And, again, I am medical--I am air2245medical as well as law enforcement, and we were able to do that2246over our FirstNet phones.2247    Seamless service and redundancy and resiliency--it is2248critical because lives matter.2249    Mrs. Dingell. So I am going to--the draft bill would extend2250FirstNet's authority through 2037, but it also makes governance2251changes to the program by removing the FirstNet Authority2252status as an independent entity and subjecting its actions to a2253vote by the NTIA.2254    I understand that first responders and public safety2255officials have concerns about this shift, particularly the2256requirement that most FirstNet actions must receive prior NTIA2257approval. On the other hand, the Office of Inspector General2258has detailed several concerns, including network reliability2259issues and deficiencies in contract administration.2260    Sheriff Adkinson, how do you assess the potential impacts2261of making the FirstNet's actions subject to NTIA approval? And2262what safeguards are necessary to ensure that first responders2263continue to have an independent voice in how the network is2264governed and operated?2265    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.2266    I think there are a couple things.2267    Pragmatically, the way it functions now is NTIA hires2268essentially every employee. Now, they can have consultation and2269may choose to do that. They are not--to my knowledge not2270required by law to consult before even hiring the executive2271director. We certainly think that that is something the Board2272needs direct oversight on, as I have said numerous times today.2273    The second part of that is, where there cannot be a2274breakdown--where there absolutely cannot be a breakdown--is in2275the building-out strategic planning and growth of this system.2276That cannot in any way, shape, or form be impaired, because2277otherwise you are going to deal with--let's just say this: It2278should be done by the experts and that meet the needs of the2279people we serve.2280    So that, to me, is a non sequitur--a nonnegotiable in that2281regard.2282    Mrs. Dingell. I am going to be out of time, so I want to2283thank you. I am going to have more--I had more questions for2284the other two witnesses, so you are going to get them on the2285record.2286    This is critical for my State and our getting it right.2287    Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.2288    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2289    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Latta for 5 minutes to ask2290your questions.2291    Mr. Latta. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman.2292    And thanks to our panel for being with us today. This is2293really important.2294    I was on the committee when we had our first hearings for2295FirstNet, and as I mentioned in a prior hearing, you could say2296that things didn't go quite well. It was kind of a top-down2297approach that was coming from pretty much Washington to the2298local governments, and it just wasn't working.2299    And I can remember the hearing that we had, that there was2300someone from Ohio who testified on behalf--and also from2301Maryland. I can't believe I can still remember this. But what2302we did see over time was a vast improvement.2303    And so, you know, Sheriff, if I could just start with you.2304And I think it is important, because, again, when I am out with2305all of my first responders across my district--and I have a2306pretty big district that spans across northern Ohio--we have to2307make sure, you know, that the coverage is there and that it is2308working.2309    And I know that--I have been out for--one was more of a2310demonstration for FirstNet, but a second one--the first time I2311was out to see it was actually when the solar eclipse was2312occurring, and it actually went across my district, all the2313way. And so, I mean, they knew they were going to have some2314serious issues out there. And it worked.2315    But, in your experience and when you are talking to people2316from around the country, what is your experience in how not2317only law enforcement but all first responders are finding2318FirstNet?2319    Sheriff Adkinson. I think it is a very positive response.2320And I have to tell you, one of the things that I hear is, to2321your point, when this was originally done, I don't think people2322thought it could get done, and I think that is what has2323changed.2324    I think there are a lot of people that deserve credit.2325Certainly not me. I wasn't here for this. But if you go across2326the country, people are relying on FirstNet to make life-and-2327death decisions, and they are impressed with the fact that this2328thing is getting done.2329    Again, we are not saying perfection, but we are saying that2330this has been an overwhelming success. And it is going to2331continue to grow and build out. So I am extremely proud for the2332men and women that actually built this system.2333    Mr. Latta. Good. Well, thank you.2334    Mr. Agnew, if I could ask you a question here. You know,2335telehealth services are a crucial asset in our healthcare2336system. And with the spectrum that has been allocated by2337Congress, first responders using FirstNet connectivity can2338provide emergency telehealth services, which can be lifesaving.2339If there is an accident in a remote area that is far from a2340hospital, first responders can connect a patient to a doctor2341using FirstNet and provide critical care until the patient is2342delivered to that hospital.2343    And before I ask the actual question, I will give you an2344example. I was at one of my hospitals in our region, and they2345had a stroke unit. And they were showing what the stroke unit2346could do. It was amazing. It was absolutely amazing.2347    But I am always--having served on this committee for so2348long, I didn't want to bust anybody's bubble, but I did ask a2349question. I said, ``How far can you go out?'' And so they2350showed where that circumference was. But then it was pretty2351much like, if you were on the other side of it, they couldn't2352get to you.2353    So that is that life-saving right there, is that we want to2354make sure it is expanded all the way out there so it can serve2355everyone and not, you know, in a particular area, what they2356were doing.2357    So how important is it that FirstNet continues to expand2358connectivity across the country so all these types of programs2359can be utilized?2360    Mr. Agnew. It is very important, Congressman. I mean, the2361mission is to ensure public safety receives the technology and2362they never get left behind like they were. They get 5G and 6G2363technology.2364    But then it is about the coverage, building out in the2365rural, the underserved areas, the Tribal areas, even in some of2366the areas, as we mentioned, the sheriff mentioned, in-building2367and maybe some of the dense places. Public safety deserves the2368coverage. This program is going to allow it to happen.2369    And to your point about extending e-health out--and so that2370is what FirstNet is going to do, is just continue to grow,2371based on public safety's feedback.2372    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you.2373    I will just close on this. Because, on 9/11, I was2374driving--I was in the General Assembly in Ohio at the time.2375And, of course, everything just collapsed. You know, you were2376trying to use your cell phone to find out what was going on,2377and, literally, in front of the statehouse in Columbus--it took2378almost an hour just to drive that one block, but--there was no2379communication. Everything was down--everything.2380    And so, also, you know, for our first responders out there,2381you know, you are worried about that.2382    But, finally, someone--you know, other members of the2383General Assembly were coming out and saying--if they saw you in2384your car, they yelled, ``You have to go home.''2385    But that is how things collapsed on 9/11. We all saw it.2386But, you know, what we all really saw was what happened in--2387especially in New York.2388    And that is why, with FirstNet, we want to make sure that2389that never, ever occurs again. Because we want to make sure,2390for the people that FirstNet--or the first responders out there2391trying to protect, but also just protect those first2392responders, that they can always be in connection with one2393another.2394    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.2395    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2396    The Chair now recognizes Representative Barragan for 52397minutes to ask her questions.2398    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2399    I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, for2400your testimony, and for the work that you do day in and day2401out.2402    I think I have heard a repeating theme, some questions2403which I already had, about how to make sure that the network2404works, that it is available when there is a disaster, when2405there is an emergency; and many questions about what is being2406done to make sure there is coverage in places where there is2407not coverage now, and efforts being done by AT&T, of course, to2408harden the system. So I am going to focus my questions on a2409different area.2410    Sheriff Adkinson, under the current law, the FirstNet2411Authority must reinvest any revenue generated into the FirstNet2412network, which AT&T owns and operates.2413    The bill we are considering today would enable the FirstNet2414Authority to invest in new and emerging broadband technologies2415like satellite internet.2416    If this bill becomes law, will the funding flow only2417through AT&T, or could the FirstNet Authority pay other2418providers, subcontractors, or technology vendors directly?2419    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question,2420Representative.2421    I think the Authority and the Board specifically says that2422we should always look at what is the best service for the2423American people and the delivery of that service, in whatever2424capacity that is. So, if that--as long as everything we do2425enhances the coverage and what we are doing, then it makes2426sense. If it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.2427    In regard to using other folks, that is something2428contractually that would have to be worked out. But, yes, I2429think there should be the ability to take whatever is the best2430application or service, that that is what we should be looking2431at.2432    Ms. Barragan. So you think that payments could be made2433directly to those others, not through AT&T?2434    Sheriff Adkinson. I am going to have to defer on that2435question.2436    Ms. Barragan. OK. Do you think that needs to be spelled out2437more in the legislation?2438    Sheriff Adkinson. I think so. I think so.2439    Ms. Barragan. You think so. OK.2440    I am also now going to follow up on this--I am looking at2441``Oversight of First Responder Network Authority,'' an OIG2442report. The inspector general has identified $1.13 billion that2443the FirstNet Authority could have used more efficiently,2444according to the report.2445    Mr. Dame, can you explain if section 3 of this new bill2446will bring the FirstNet Authority more clearly under NTIA's2447authority?2448    Rather, the bill, we know, under the section 3, more2449clearly brings the FirstNet Authority under NTIA's authority.2450Do you think that is going to help prevent further use of funds2451so that they are efficiently used?2452    Mr. Dame. I do.2453    And, as we have seen across many inspector general reports,2454there is this overarching theme of the need for greater2455performance accountability and contract oversight, and I2456believe that that is an area where NTIA can support.2457    We never want to get in the middle of strategic decisions2458that first responders should be making on the Board and with2459the Public Safety Advisory Committee, but I believe, in terms2460of performance accountability, that is an area where NTIA and2461the Department of Commerce can support the Authority to a2462greater degree.2463    Ms. Barragan. Great.2464    And, Sheriff, I want to follow up on the same report. There2465is another result in this report that says that the OIG made 502466recommendations. Twenty-four of the recommendations remain2467unimplemented.2468    Who should be implementing those remaining 24, and what is2469the status?2470    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.2471    As I said in my initial statement, that is our2472responsibility. The Board is entirely responsible for making2473sure that gets done, through their executive director and2474staff.2475    And I will tell you, all those are in the process of being2476cleared or closed in close cooperation with the OIG. We have2477met with them, the executive director has met with them, and we2478are moving toward resolving them.2479    But, more importantly, we have now established a2480relationship where there is a close line of communication,2481because I need to ensure this doesn't happen again. And that is2482really the short version of that.2483    Ms. Barragan. Yeah.2484    Well, I have to say and just reiterate what my colleagues2485have all reiterated, that this is so critically important for2486all our communities. And I think it sounds like, when we all2487spoke to our local elected officials in counties and cities,2488the pattern was: We want it to be reliable, we want there to be2489transparency, we need it to work. And so I think whatever we2490can do to make sure that that happens is something that2491Congress and us, as lawmakers, are focused on.2492    So I will end with a very brief question. Does anybody on2493the panel think there is anything that is missing from the2494draft legislation that needs to be added?2495    We will start with you, Mr. Agnew, since you are the one we2496haven't gotten to.2497    Mr. Agnew. I don't think there is anything that needs to be2498added.2499    Ms. Barragan. OK.2500    Mr. Dame?2501    Mr. Dame. No. NTIA supports the bill. Thank you.2502    Ms. Barragan. Sheriff?2503    Sheriff Adkinson. Just in--consistent with my previous2504statement, that there should be some direct oversight from the2505Board of the executive director so that we have some say in who2506that is and what their performance metrics would be.2507    Ms. Barragan. Great. Thank you.2508    Thank you all.2509    I yield back.2510    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2511    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fry for 5 minutes to ask your2512questions.2513    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2514    FirstNet was created to address a clear failure exposed on2515September 11th: Our first responders could not reliably2516communicate across systems when it mattered most. Congress2517responded, obviously. And, today, FirstNet is widely used by2518first responders across the country, including rural and2519coastal communities like those I represent in South Carolina.2520    In fact, I think there has been a recent expansion of2521FirstNet in Marion County. The sheriff is thrilled, because his2522officers can now communicate when they need it the most.2523    As we approach the sunset, though, Congress, I think, has a2524unique role and a responsibility to ensure continuity of2525service while also examining governance, oversight, and2526performance. Reauthorization should focus on reliability,2527interoperability, and accountability--a lot of "-abilities, if2528you will--so first responders can depend on that network2529without disruption.2530    So I appreciate all of you being here today.2531    Sheriff Adkinson, when first responders--in fact, in Marion2532County, South Carolina, Adkinsons are like Smiths, so you might2533have some family in the district.2534    But when first responders identify coverage gaps or2535performance issues in the field, how does that information flow2536from local agencies to the Board and into investment decisions?2537    Sheriff Adkinson. It flows in a couple of different ways.2538    First and foremost, we have individuals who represent those2539specific areas to maintain contact with them, ``How is this2540going?'' Field reps, for putting it another way.2541    We also have the Public Safety Advocacy Committee, who are2542from multiple disciplines and advise the Board where they see2543shortcomings.2544    And, third--and I think this is critical--there is a direct2545relationship out from those organizations to the FirstNet2546Authority. In other words, they can pick up the phone and call2547us, as well. They are not afraid to do that. You might find2548that hard to believe, but the first responders are perfectly2549willing to pick up the phone and call.2550    So I think the field reps are crucial to what we do. I2551think the PSAC is crucial to what we do. And from that, we try2552to make the best decisions on the most--again, where do you get2553the most impact, what is the most critical need, and try to2554stagger that.2555    Mr. Fry. I appreciate that.2556    And I think Congressman Griffith raised the issue about2557rural Virginia and that you have meetings in Virginia--you have2558had a meeting in Virginia, I think you testified to.2559    But I was curious, just to kind of follow up on that, how2560often those meetings take place. Do they take place in2561different parts of the State? Are they ongoing meetings, where2562the situations evolve and maybe in a year or so you go back to2563that State to see if the terrain has changed? What does that2564look like?2565    Just curious on how you, you know, listen actively on the2566ground to what the States are needing most.2567    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. We actually just finished up the2568majority of our coverage workshop for the entire country,2569right? The field reps or the representatives are out all the2570time. They are assigned to specific States or areas.2571    And, depending on the State, we don't--in other words, say,2572for instance, we have one in Florida and it is in one district.2573We may hold two there. We may hold three ultimately. It depends2574what is necessary.2575    So there is kind of an ongoing path of reaching back and2576saying it is time to go back there, we have heard issues or2577concern there, the PSAC has reported there is an issue there,2578we have a fire chief who says there is an issue there. So we2579are trying to do that on an ongoing basis.2580    But I will tell you, I think that is part of our ongoing2581strategic plan, too, is to set a pattern. Listen, if you say2582you are going to do something, you have to do it. And so, when2583you start saying you are coming back, that--we don't want to2584promise and underdeliver.2585    Mr. Fry. So you are coming back?2586    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. We will be back.2587    Mr. Fry. All right.2588    Sheriff Adkinson. I know the chair. He says it will happen.2589    Mr. Fry. There you go.2590    Mr. Agnew, outages, I think, are a big concern, just2591generally, and whether or not first responders can access this,2592use it.2593    What changes have been made since the 2024 outage to reduce2594the risk of future disruptions and improve notifications for2595first responder usage?2596    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question.2597    And just as a recap, in 2024 the FirstNet Core experienced2598a 2-hour outage, but AT&T prioritized, per the contract, the2599FirstNet program, and we got that network up and running and2600that core up and running within a couple hours.2601    We have subsequently done a root-cause analysis, an after-2602action report, and identified specifically what went wrong and2603what specific implementations need to occur. FirstNet put forth2604a task force. We were held accountable and basically delivered2605to ensure that situation wouldn't happen.2606    So this is oversight in action. It is accountability in2607action happening. So we have now--and we funded the investments2608necessary to enhance the network.2609    Mr. Fry. Thank you for that.2610    I have other questions, but I think the chairman runs a2611tight ship. So with that, I will yield back.2612    Mr. Hudson. Appreciate that.2613    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Menendez for 5 minutes to ask2614your questions.2615    Mr. Menendez. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to the2616witnesses for being here.2617    The horrific terrorist attacks on September 11 exposed2618critical weaknesses in our public safety communications when2619overloaded radio, landline, and mobile networks left police2620officers, firefighters, and paramedics unable to communicate2621effectively. First responders answered the call on 9/11 from2622across the river in New Jersey, including many from my2623district.2624    The First Responder Network Authority was created out of2625the 9/11 Commission Report out of a recognition that we needed2626nationwide network for public safety communications to keep2627Americans safe during emergencies.2628    Today's hearing is also critical to the communities I2629represent, because every year we experience a growing number of2630natural disasters, such as Superstorm Sandy and Hurricane Ida,2631which knocked out power for many local 9-1-1 centers and2632disrupted communications networks down the entire northeastern2633seaboard.2634    Our district also includes a vast amount of critical2635infrastructure that has led Homeland Security experts to call2636the area between Newark Airport and the Port of Elizabeth the2637most dangerous 2 miles in America. This makes strengthening2638FirstNet security and resiliency essential for families in our2639district so that first responders know their communication2640tools will work when they need them most.2641    I would like to ask each witness--just yes or no--would you2642agree that oversight of the resilience and security of the2643FirstNet network is especially vital for communities with2644increased exposure to natural disasters and substantial2645critical infrastructure assets?2646    We will start with you, Sheriff.2647    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely. And I would say, remember2648that the representative of Homeland Security as well as DOJ is2649on there, and as the third member, which is a technical2650expertise that is provided by several of the board members, one2651in particular, and this is the issue of cybersecurity. The2652ability to stay up against a cyber attack, that is absolutely2653key in my mind.2654    Mr. Menendez. We will come back to cybersecurity, don't you2655worry.2656    Mr. Dame. Yes.2657    Mr. Agnew. Yes, and we are currently held accountable to26583,600 requirements in the thousand reports to do exactly what2659you are saying, Congressman.2660    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that.2661    That is why I am pleased that we are moving forward with2662the bipartisan discussion draft to reauthorize FirstNet with2663increased oversight of the resiliency and security of the2664network.2665    Mr. Agnew, in light of the numerous natural disasters that2666have impacted public safety communications in New Jersey, how2667is AT&T working to improve the resilience of FirstNet2668statewide?2669    Mr. Agnew. Thank you for that question. And Superstorm2670Sandy is what created the Response Operation Group program. It2671started in New Jersey from that experience, and in fact New2672Jersey was one of the broadband technology opportunity programs2673that actually set one of the seven that basically built or2674formulated FirstNet, and it was New Jersey Net. Actually, New2675Jersey Net has been incorporated within the FirstNet program.2676    But that Response Operation Group is dedicated individuals,2677former public safety officials. Over 190 assets, plus the 7502678assets AT&T brings to the table, coordinates with public2679safety, as what is going on with the FIFA event. ``Where are2680you going to be? Where do you need the equipment? Where are we2681staging?'' It is constant collaboration, training, and2682practicing so an event like Superstorm Sandy, the team is2683prepared. The team is prepared to stage and know exactly where2684to go.2685    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that. I appreciate New Jersey2686leading the way with AT&T.2687    Sheriff Adkinson, in your opinion, does the FirstNet2688reauthorization discussion draft provide for better2689dissemination of outage information so that public safety2690agencies have situational awareness of FirstNet's operational2691status?2692    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes.2693    Mr. Menendez. OK. And it is critical that FirstNet remains2694operational even in the toughest circumstances.2695    Sheriff Adkinson, in your testimony you touched on the2696importance of cybersecurity enhancements to FirstNet network.2697In what ways would this discussion draft strengthen oversight2698over the cybersecurity of FirstNet?2699    Sheriff Adkinson. I can't speak specifically to how that2700legislation will increase cybersecurity impact other than to2701say this: The board is specifically addressing that and making2702that part of key performance indexes to be rolled out. We2703haven't finished that yet because I think it still needs more2704work.2705    Mr. Menendez. But you would say it is one of the sort of2706upmost important issues that you are working on on the board,2707given sort of what we are seeing with increased cyberattacks,2708especially from foreign adversaries?2709    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely a priority.2710    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that.2711    I want to go back, Mr. Agnew. You mentioned this, but how2712is AT&T investing in preparations for the upcoming FIFA World2713Cup finals in and around MetLife Stadium in New Jersey through2714collaboration with local law enforcement?2715    Mr. Agnew. We are meeting with all 12 of the cities. Of2716course, MetLife Stadium, again, planning, coordinating, where2717first responders are, where we need to be, making incremental2718investments in in-building coverage. Public safety is--you2719know, what is unique about FIFA is, unlike a Jets or Giants2720game where you can park around----2721    Mr. Menendez. People are actually going to be there.2722    Mr. Agnew. That is a good point.2723    Mr. Menendez. I am a Giants fan, so----2724    Mr. Agnew. FIFA has different rules than NFL. And you can't2725park around the stadium, so we have to move all our assets,2726coordinate with public safety. That is going on. I feel very2727good about the performance of what you are about to see.2728    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate it. I look forward to continuing2729to work with you as well as the entire committee on moving this2730forward.2731    Thank you. I yield back.2732    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2733    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Carter for 5 minutes to ask2734your questions.2735    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Thank you, gentlemen, for being2736here. And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this meeting.2737    And we all have established the fact that FirstNet was2738created so that our first responders would never again have to2739face the communications failures that we saw on 9/11, and I2740remain strongly supportive of reauthorizing this critical2741public safety network.2742    I had the pleasure of visiting the AT&T facility, the2743disaster recovery facility in Covington, Georgia, and very2744impressed with the equipment there, very impressed with the2745infrastructure. It supports the infrastructure and operations2746that keep first responders connected across the State.2747    Congress, as I understand it, entered into a 25-year2748partnership with AT&T to build and operate and maintain this2749nationwide network for public safety. And as AT&T continues to2750operate FirstNet and expand its infrastructure, I want to2751better understand the implications of having a single2752commercial provider owning and running the underlying network.2753    Mr. Agnew, does AT&T own the network that is being built2754for FirstNet?2755    Mr. Agnew. That is correct. Basically, the contract, just2756to understand it, it is a services-based contract that AT&T2757implements at the direction of the Authority, all the FirstNet-2758specific elements that are required to deliver the service. And2759it is the FirstNet Authority, actually, holds license to this2760spectrum.2761    Mr. Carter of Georgia. So if the contract is not renewed2762when it ends, what will happen to the infrastructure that has2763been built?2764    Mr. Agnew. The infrastructure remains with AT&T, but just2765to level set expectations, wireless networks upgrade--you are2766upgrading your entire network every 5 years. So it has a very2767limited lifespan on network equipment. AT&T spends about $1452768billion every 5 years upgrading a network.2769    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK. Thank you for that.2770    As I understand it, Sheriff Adkinson, FirstNet is governed2771by a 15-person board that includes permanent Federal members2772and 12 Commerce-appointed experts, and they have the2773responsibility of ensuring that the network stays focused on2774public safety needs.2775    First of all, thank you for your service, Sheriff, and for2776your leadership on the FirstNet Board.2777    What enforcement tools does the board actually have to2778ensure compliance with build-out and performance requirements2779under this agreement?2780    Sheriff Adkinson. They can withhold payment. I mean,2781ultimately that is where this is at. If appropriate, you can2782set up indices, again, for measures for them to meet, but2783withholding of funds is the major----2784    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Have you had to do that?2785    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah, there have been delays.2786    Mr. Carter of Georgia. There have been delays?2787    Sheriff Adkinson. There have been times that we have had to2788double-check and go back and do things, but all of those were2789rectified and met in a manner that was sufficient.2790    Mr. Carter of Georgia. So you are pretty satisfied?2791    Sheriff Adkinson. I am satisfied.2792    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK.2793    Do you believe that Congress should enhance the board's2794oversight authority or transparency requirements as part of the2795reauthorization to better protect first responders?2796    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes.2797    Mr. Carter of Georgia. You do?2798    Sheriff Adkinson. I do. I think the board should take more2799ownership and more responsibility in making sure this is done2800appropriately.2801    Mr. Carter of Georgia. But should Congress be the one to do2802that, to give you that enhanced oversight?2803    Sheriff Adkinson. I believe so.2804    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK. Fair enough.2805    That is really all I have. Thank all of you all for being2806here. This is very important.2807    And as I said, I had the opportunity to visit Covington,2808very impressed with the infrastructure. And, Ms. Ferguson,2809thank you for setting that up and helping us with that, because2810it is--when you see it, you are impressed. It is a big2811investment. There is no question about that. So thank you all.2812    And I yield back.2813    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2814    The Chair recognizes Representative McClellan for 5 minutes2815for your questions.2816    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.2817    And I want to reiterate how excited I am to be working with2818Mr. Dunn of Florida on this very important legislation.2819    Let me first ask--so in the bill, we turn what is the2820executive director into an Associate Administrator position who2821is a senior-service-level official appointed by the Assistant2822Secretary. Now, they are subject to performance reviews in2823consultation with the chair of the board and any committee2824members that deal with governance and risk.2825    But, Sheriff Adkinson, several times you have raised2826reasonable concerns about the relationship between the board2827and what will now be this Associate Administrator.2828    And, Mr. Dame, I would like to hear your thoughts on how2829the legislation can work to address that relationship to2830further improve FirstNet Authority's accountability.2831    Mr. Dame. Thank you, and thank you for your leadership on2832this bill, Congresswoman.2833    NTIA believes that moving the FirstNet Authority over to be2834a line office within NTIA will be important to improve2835performance accountability, but I want to be clear that the2836strategic decisions for public safety on their network is to2837come from the board, the Public Safety Advisory Committee.2838    I think where NTIA and the Department can support to a much2839greater degree is to provide performance accountability as the2840Authority is implementing the decisions the board has provided2841and for performance accountability after the fact, after2842implementation.2843    I understand Sheriff Adkinson's point, and I think2844ultimately a solution can be found as Congress considers this2845bill.2846    Ms. McClellan. Thank you.2847    And, Sheriff Adkinson, I mean, your concerns are heard loud2848and clear. That is why I didn't ask you, but I wanted to make2849sure that we gave Mr. Dame a chance to respond, and I think2850this is an area where we will definitely look.2851    So, Mr. Agnew and Sheriff Adkinson, can you describe how2852AT&T has met its reinvestment obligations in the nationwide2853public safety broadband network and how the FirstNet Authority2854ensures those reinvestments align with public safety priorities2855rather than broader commercial objectives?2856    Mr. Agnew. I think it is pretty straightforward from a2857reinvestment standpoint. The framework was established in2858February of 2024 of what FirstNet would invest in, a new core,2859new coverage, new technologies inclusive of satellite. It is2860now incumbent on the voice of public safety and the FirstNet2861Authority to determine what those investments are.2862    AT&T is the contractor. We can share our expertise and the2863technology, but we don't dictate where coverage goes or the2864technology to implement it. We are just responsible for meeting2865the requirements of implementation.2866    Ms. McClellan. OK. And, Sheriff Adkinson, did you want to2867add anything to that?2868    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, ma'am. I mean, that is the short2869version of it. We are going to tell them where we believe these2870towers need to be, based on the input from public safety, and2871that is where the funds should be spent.2872    Ms. McClellan. OK. Also for Sheriff and Mr. Dame, the IG2873reports have found that FirstNet's Authority has not followed2874standard Federal contracting and procurement procedures.2875    Is there any reason why the Authority should not be subject2876to the same Federal acquisition standards as other Federal2877entities? And if so, what is that?2878    Sheriff Adkinson. [Inaudible] structured in regard to the2879public-private partnership of it. The reality is any2880procurement we make should ultimately be transparent,2881accountable, and have something that can be reviewed. There is2882no way around that. Now, whether that meets that standard or2883there are a separate set of rules for a P3, I don't think2884anybody here should argue against that.2885    Ms. McClellan. OK. Mr. Dame?2886    Mr. Dame. And I would just add that the FirstNet Authority2887decided to use the Federal acquisition regulations, which I2888think was the right decision, and that the Department has2889provided delegations of authority to FirstNet officials to2890perform those procurement activities.2891    Ms. McClellan. OK. I probably don't have enough time for2892the remaining, but thank you. This has been very helpful. As we2893said earlier, this is a discussion draft, not the final. And so2894I, for one, have found your testimony very helpful as we move2895forward.2896    And I yield back.2897    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.2898    The Chair recognizes Representative Cammack for 5 minutes2899to ask your questions.2900    Mrs. Cammack. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our2901witnesses for being here today.2902    I am very proud to have one of our own from the great free2903State of Florida here testifying before our committee. So thank2904you, Sheriff. I would be remiss if I didn't say ``Go Gators.''2905I know those are fighting words.2906    But as everyone in this room knows, FirstNet was created2907after 9/11 to fix a deadly failure. First responders can't do2908their jobs if they can't communicate. Congress has responded by2909helping build a nationwide public safety network with priority2910and preemption when lives are on the line.2911    By many measures, FirstNet has delivered. It serves tens of2912thousands of agencies, spans millions of square miles, and has2913proven its value during disasters, and that success is exactly2914why Congress must reauthorize it before its authority expires2915in 2027.2916    But reauthorization shouldn't be on autopilot. Outages,2917coverage gaps, especially in rural areas, and inspector general2918findings show that performance must come with accountability2919and action. So this bill, this discussion draft, it strengthens2920oversight, improves outage reporting, clarifies responsibility,2921and ensures that FirstNet keeps evolving. When accountability2922is clear, public safety is stronger.2923    So I am going to start with you, Sheriff. You have2924emphasized that FirstNet works best when investments are driven2925by real operational needs. You and I have discussed, for2926example, in my district that the overwhelming majority of my2927sheriffs are not on FirstNet. My husband, who is a first2928responder and a user of FirstNet, was unable to utilize his2929service during the last three major hurricanes.2930    Now,I know that there have been challenges in deployment,2931but can you briefly detail how, through our conversations and2932conversations you have had with others, that we can make2933FirstNet work for all of our rural sheriffs in disaster-prone2934areas? Specifically, what reinvestment needs to happen?2935    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question,2936Representative, and thank you for your work on this, because I2937know your personal interest and that it matters.2938    And I will use your district specifically. You know, we2939went back and held a coverage workshop there in, I think,2940August of this last year, and said, you know, listening to our2941firefighters, our first responders, where can we increase the2942coverage? What needs to be done? I think something like 152943sites have been added in the last year and a half in that2944district, but that doesn't mean it is going to be perfect. And2945it certainly doesn't mean the districts farther down south--so2946if I am in Lafayette County or Gilchrist County, which are2947extremely rural counties, they may need more than that one site2948or two sites. We are going to have to continue to do that.2949    So I think it is incumbent upon us at the Authority to2950ensure that we keep these workshops going, we keep the field2951reps going, and we prioritize based on the immediacy of need2952and where we identify these problems.2953    Mrs. Cammack. Well, and that is a great way to dovetail2954into the next question about interoperability. So there is some2955discussion within this language today that there needs to be a2956concerted effort towards interoperability for different2957services, particularly in disaster situations. Can you speak to2958that?2959    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. I think, clearly, you know,2960obviously, right now I could call you on--you know, I could use2961my FirstNet phone and call you on a Verizon or T-Mobile. So you2962have that level of interoperability. Also, they have developed2963the ability to talk over land mobile radio as well too, the2964push to talk if you do that.2965    I think some of the new product that is coming forth, the2966technology is clearly working toward that. That is the final2967singularity of goal, is that we have one ring to rule them all.2968And from a standpoint of a unified command--you knew I would2969work in ``Lord of the Rings'' here at some point--there has to2970be a unified command. There shouldn't be any question about2971this work and the ability to work during that.2972    Mrs. Cammack. Excellent. Thank you.2973    I am going to shift to you. Is it ``Dom`'' or ``Dame''?2974    Mr. Dame. ``Dame.''2975    Mrs. Cammack. ``Dame.''2976    Mr. Dame. Yeah.2977    Mrs. Cammack. Like hot dame. OK. Just kidding. It is a2978joke.2979    Mr. Dame. Notre Dame.2980    Mrs. Cammack. OK. All right. We are going to talk about2981that later.2982    So you have talked about today quite a bit about the2983blurred lines of authority. Under the current structure, who is2984currently responsible for enforcing contract performance, and2985why hasn't that always worked in practice--that is the first2986part--but then, how would making--this is the critical part--2987how would making FirstNet a clear line office within NTIA2988improve the day-to-day oversight and accountability?2989    Mr. Dame. And thank you, Congresswoman, for your leadership2990on public safety communications.2991    It is the murkiness and the ambiguity of the independent2992authority within NTIA that has caused the issue, and there are2993dedicated, mission-driven staff at the FirstNet Authority who2994are working on these issues, who care very much about making2995sure the first responders have the network they need.2996    But we think that with the proposed changes and the draft2997discussion text, that having the FirstNet Authority move over2998as a line office of NTIA, there would be greater enhancements.2999    Mrs. Cammack. Well, and because my time is running short, I3000just want to highlight H.R. 1519, the Public Safety3001Communications Act, which would formally establish the Office3002of Public Safety within NTIA. It would cut the red tape, create3003a single point of oversight for FirstNet.3004    Do you agree that that would be helpful in establishing3005greater ability to be flexible for FirstNet but oversight at3006the same time?3007    Mr. Dame. I do. I think there need to be some3008reconciliations between the two bills, but, yes, ma'am.3009    Mrs. Cammack. And, Sheriff, would you agree?3010    Sheriff Adkinson. I believe there would be delineated lines3011of authority so there is no question about the ambiguity of who3012is doing what.3013    Mrs. Cammack. Excellent. I appreciate you all's feedback3014today.3015    And with that, I yield back.3016    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3017    And keeping it in Florida, I will recognize Representative3018Castor for 5 minutes to ask her questions.3019    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member3020Matsui. Yes, we are rich in Floridians on the committee.3021    And thank you to our witnesses. You have had some very3022constructive recommendations for us.3023    I think there is a lot of interest from Floridians because3024we are so susceptible to disasters. You talked about Hurricane3025Michael up in your neck of the woods, but really in the Tampa3026Bay area, we are still reeling from hurricanes Helene and3027Milton in the fall of 2024, the devastating one-two punch where3028folks lost powers for weeks. Three million Floridians lost3029power after that, and it was long and sustained. I know Rep.3030Cammack knows this all too well.3031    Damage to critical infrastructure. There is no--people3032don't anticipate that they are going to lose internet and cell3033service, but they do, and it is just the worst-case scenario to3034think that our first responders, when towers go down,3035communication networks go down, that that won't hamper rescue3036and recovery.3037    So I, after the storms, checked in on the operation of3038FirstNet with Pinellas County Emergency Management. They said3039AT&T has done well building out towers and infrastructure in3040Florida with hurricanes in mind, but the portable sites,3041especially the compact rapid deployables, were particularly3042helpful to provide reliable service.3043    The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said that FirstNet3044has been very successful for the county, connecting up all3045phones, cameras, patrol cars, laptops. They said that the3046service has disaster-grade reliability and that there have been3047little to no issues with the product or provider.3048    But both emphasized to me that if the Congress is going to3049act, that they were concerned that there would be more3050bureaucratic red tape. They both highlighted that if we are3051going to make changes, to ensure that there are no obstacles3052created to action.3053    Is there anything you see in the draft legislation or in3054responding to the OIG's report that would create unnecessary3055barriers or obstacles?3056    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question. I am3057assuming you are pointing at me, so I want to make sure that I3058am answering appropriately.3059    Ms. Castor. Yes, sir.3060    Sheriff Adkinson. I think when you look at that3061specifically, those OIGs largely deal with individuals not3062following directions or doing what they are told or being held3063accountable. And I sound like a broken record on this issue,3064but I think it is fundamentally the crux of the issue.3065    You can switch responsibility to multiple different people,3066but if you are not going to hold them accountable, I am not3067sure what we are going to accomplish. So we have got to do3068that.3069    Again, that individuals--those individual positions, they3070currently are hired, selected, supervised by NTIA today, full3071stop. And so I just think we just need to be clear so that we3072can say this is how it needs to be handled and to do it as3073effectively as possible.3074    Ms. Castor. And you are going to keep an eye to make sure3075that our local emergency managers and first responders, and as3076we develop this modernization for FirstNet reauthorization,3077that there are no barriers to them being able--3078    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, ma'am. And, quite frankly, I worry3079all the time about these kind of things, whether or not the3080system is going down, is it working like it needs to. This is3081what keeps me up at night.3082    Ms. Castor. OK. Mr. Agnew, Florida now is expanding the3083number of deployables--the compact rapid deployables and more3084towers, but I hear Rep. Cammack say there are parts of our3085State that are still struggling.3086    What is the latest?3087    Mr. Agnew. There is still more to be done. As you3088mentioned, the State of Florida invested in 60 of those compact3089rapid deployables. So we have actually developed technology3090where first responders can own their own mobile towers, and so3091that is how it is happening, so they can self-sustain. There is3092more coverage coming.3093    There were 15 sites built. There are three more sites being3094built in your district in the Tampa area. I believe there are3095four more coming, Representative Cammack, in your area. There3096is a lot more work to be done. That is why we need this network3097to continue, because that investment is going to deliver3098exactly what you are asking for: more coverage and more3099deployables for resiliency in hurricanes and other disasters.3100    Ms. Castor. So one of the challenges--and I don't know if3101this impacts directly on the compact rapid deployables--is just3102the widespread loss of power afterwards.3103    Is AT&T developing the battery backups to go with systems?3104    I mean, there were so many--they kind of go hand in hand.3105Many hospitals and wastewater infrastructure for local3106communities, when they lost power for the long term, they3107couldn't operate.3108    Is there the same challenge for communications networks?3109    Mr. Agnew. Absolutely. Power in hurricanes and in high3110winds--power becomes an issue, continuing to harden the network3111and invest in----3112    Ms. Castor. But do you have partnerships on battery----3113    Mr. Agnew. Yes.3114    Ms. Castor [continuing]. Kind of the new wave of batteries?3115    Mr. Agnew. Yes, we do.3116    Ms. Castor. OK. Could you provide a little more information3117on that?3118    Mr. Agnew. Sure.3119    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.3120    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3121    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Goldman for 5 minutes for your3122questions.3123    Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much3124for this hearing, and thank you to the panelists for being here3125today.3126    Sheriff, thank you very much for your service. Thank you3127for your frankness and directness and your testimony today.3128    Can you just take us through anecdotally what it was like3129before FirstNet was created, any stories you may have, and then3130the improvements of FirstNet and where we are today?3131    Sheriff Adkinson. You know, we talk about--I mean,3132obviously, 9/11 is the impetus of this, correct, but I can tell3133you I have been through--it was Hurricane Katrina when there3134was no ability to talk or where there was so much volume. The3135Marjory Stoneman Douglas murders that took place in South3136Florida. You have everybody trying to call at one time,3137everybody trying to use that.3138    What happens now with priority and preemption is that those3139first responders now have access to this network. The Super3140Bowl, you know, is a great example of that where you have a lot3141of folks there. You had the shooting in New Orleans around that3142same timeframe.3143    If you look at the number of times that that system was3144bounced off--and AT&T can provide that. We have seen those3145numbers--we can see who is actually hitting this system and3146when they are doing it. But the fact it is not an overlay that3147is built for them, assuring that we are going to be able to get3148out is critical, absolutely critical.3149    Because while we talk about natural disaster, which is a3150huge thing we worry about, don't forget when you are talking3151about the inauguration of the President of the United States,3152when you are talking about a Super Bowl and some incident3153happens. There might not be a natural disaster, but there is3154certainly such a surge in usage right then. This ensures that3155our first responders can get out when nobody else can.3156    Mr. Goldman. Thank you.3157    Mr. Agnew, I know you spoke about this a little bit earlier3158with Mr. Pfluger, my colleague from Texas, but I want to go3159back to the central Texas flooding. Can you talk about--and3160again, I apologize if you already did that. I was out of the3161room for a bit.3162    But can you talk about--some hurricanes you can plan for.3163You know they are coming, and you can be prepared. No one knew3164the flooding was going to happen to the level it did in central3165Texas.3166    Can you talk about how you all responded to that and how3167you prepare for something like that or then plan for the3168future?3169    Mr. Agnew. Thank you for that question, Congressman. It is3170a great question, because you have unplanned events--you have3171planned events, like a hurricane, where you can plan a couple3172days, and then unplanned events, which just becomes emergent,3173and that is exactly what happened with the Texas Hill Country3174flooding.3175    You and your staffer have been to our network disaster3176recovery warehouse. You see the arsenal, but there is3177intelligence around that where we stage them across the3178country. We have an AT&T weather operation center that3179nationally monitors so we know when impacts are occurring so we3180can respond.3181    And that is exactly what we did. We responded in force. We3182sent the cavalry to the whole country. I had folks on my team3183on the ground with first responders directing search and rescue3184efforts, ensuring that public safety got the communication they3185needed.3186    There was also a cell tower, a full-blown cell tower built3187in 48 hours. It is magic when public safety and3188telecommunications gets together what can happen, because there3189is no more red tape. It is just execution, and that is what the3190Response Operation Group does with public safety.3191    We recently recognized at an event with our CEO the3192employees that actually went down and supported, and they were3193tired. They were with public safety multiple days. We had to3194swap some out because of just the emotional demand, of course,3195of what was going on and what individuals were seeing.3196    But we learned from those events. We get feedback from3197those events. One of the things that we learned from the Texas3198Hill Country is the smaller mobile deployables are so important3199because it is hard to get in some of those areas. You can't3200have a huge truck. So we are actually increasing the amount of3201assets we have of smaller deployables.3202    Mr. Goldman. That was going to be my followup question,3203what you learned, so you already answered it.3204    So with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back the3205balance of my time.3206    Thank you all very much for being here.3207    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3208    I now recognize Representative Carter for 5 minutes for3209your questions.3210    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank3211you, Ranking Member, for holding this important hearing. Thank3212you all for being here.3213    As you know, I represent Louisiana's Second Congressional3214District, New Orleans. Being the hub of entertainment,3215festivals, sporting events, and concerts, the walkability of3216our city, the nature of millions of people literally coming in3217every year for conventions and sporting events and Mardi Gras,3218which we are celebrating as we speak, the importance of3219recognizing Mother Nature, who always plays a big role in our3220community, of hurricane, floods, considering security of mass3221gathering events, that is why public safety technologies and3222communications systems like FirstNet are so critical to3223protecting the lives and ensuring effective emergency responses3224to districts like mine. And I strongly, strongly support3225reauthorizing of this program.3226    Just a few questions.3227    Mr. Agnew, for those who may not know, can you share with3228us why the priority and preemption are critical to protecting3229public safety during network congestions at large crowd events3230like Mardi Gras, festivals, sporting events, and concerts?3231    Mr. Agnew. Public safety has to get through. They have to3232communicate. If they can't do that, there could be lives at3233risk. They could not be responding to the incident that they3234need, and that is why we built a dedicated core. It is no3235users--consumer users are on that core.3236    That is why public safety on Band 14 and all of AT&T's3237other couple hundred megahertz of spectrum, they get priority3238so they can communicate. And that is why we have the largest3239network for public safety built by public safety.3240    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. What are some of the things that3241AT&T has learned since you have been doing this, and what can3242we do to make it better? What have you learned that made it3243good? What are the things that you think it hasn't done?3244    Mr. Agnew. I think that is a great question. As far as what3245we have learned, I mentioned to Congressman Goldman, building3246smaller deployables, building form factors for in-building3247solutions, building the location capabilities to show where3248somebody is in the building. We learned that feedback from3249public safety is so important, because when we take that3250feedback and deploy a product, it makes it better.3251    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. Great.3252    Sheriff, first of all, thank you. I have appreciated your3253commentary and the ease with which you have demonstrated your3254adroitness in this subject matter.3255    As a first responder, can you talk about how FirstNet works3256in a city like New Orleans in response to emergencies, natural3257disasters strike our communities, and equally as important,3258share with me, are we big enough?3259    We know that natural disasters come faster. They stay3260longer. They come in places that historically have not--3261mudslides and tornados and all of the natural disasters that we3262see coming.3263    Are we big enough? And what do we have to do to maintain3264the level of clear channel, as Mr. Agnew mentioned, going3265forward?3266    Sheriff Adkinson. I will speak to New Orleans specifically.3267You know, the shooting, the incident with the vehicle about a3268year and a half ago, that is a great example where, as first3269responders, the usage there was really significant for a burst.3270The short period of time as everybody is trying to coordinate3271what is going on, the ability for that not to be bogged down in3272commercial traffic is absolutely crucial.3273    And then the reality of what you just said about natural3274disasters. There are some things--and I am not going to lie to3275you, there are some things that we just sometimes miss or are3276unprepared for. Maui, the Maui fires, you know, a volcano. That3277was unprecedented. Should we have had more accesses ready to3278the outlining island? Yes, full stop. And we are going to have3279to continue to try and work and do these--3280    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. But the very nature of natural3281disasters is they don't give you warning, right? So as hard as3282you guys work and as much as we appreciate it, natural3283disasters don't give a warning, but we can contemplate that3284this is going to be around for a long time.3285    What can we do now in advance of the storm to strengthen3286our systems?3287    Sheriff Adkinson. I think what we are doing, what we can3288do, and what we should do is we should continue expanding that.3289This is fundamentally the heart of what I think government is3290about. I mean, this is providing for the public safety, both of3291the citizens and the people--you know, the people that are3292providing the service. This is literally a central function of3293government, in my eyes.3294    Mr. Carter of Georgia. And with 31 seconds left, each of3295you, real quickly, rapid fire: Sitting before us, tell us what3296can we do as Members of Congress to assist you with the3297incredible work that you have to do with this reauthorization3298and beyond.3299    Sheriff Adkinson. Reauthorization, first and foremost.3300    Mr. Dame. Reauthorization.3301    Mr. Agnew. Reauthorization.3302    Mr. Carter of Georgia. You made it too easy.3303    Mr. Chairman, I yield.3304    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3305    The Chair recognizes Representative Fedorchak for 5 minutes3306for her questions.3307    Mrs. Fedorchak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3308    Representative Goldman and I were just talking about how3309much we appreciate the effort you all put in to being here. We3310were noticing the sheriff's really sharp uniform. Maybe it is3311brand new. But we know you have taken a lot of your precious3312time and resources to get here and share your expertise, so I3313want to share my appreciation for that.3314    I am from the State of North Dakota. I am the only3315Representative there, so I represent the whole State. It is a3316big, rural State, and I would say--let's say we have a lot of3317weather challenges. We have blizzards. We have fires, grassland3318fires. We have tornados, floods, you name it. It is tough for3319our first responders because they have to cover a big, huge3320area with few resources.3321    So the communications technology is really, really vital.3322So thank you for the work you are putting in to ensure that3323those communication networks are as vibrant as possible.3324    I have a few questions for both the sheriff and Mr. Agnew.3325We will start with you, Sheriff. You emphasized that FirstNet3326is built by and for public safety and point to the Public3327Safety Advisory Committee as a key safeguard.3328    Can you help me understand, in practice, how does the board3329independently validate the public safety needs, and how is3330information from the network contractor a part of that, or how3331do you find information separate from what they are providing3332to you?3333    Sheriff Adkinson. Sure. It is a little bit of a bifurcated3334system in that regard. So you have the Public Safety Advocacy3335Committee, right, which is made up of experts all across the3336public safety field that meet and represent their individual3337disciplines. The Authority board and the Authority members meet3338with that Public Safety Advocacy Committee. In fact, it was3339supposed to be in Dallas this last week, but weather3340notwithstanding caused some problems there. This is something3341we do routinely, to meet with them to get this insight and3342input.3343    Additionally, there are field reps from the FirstNet3344Authority who reach out based on discipline--maybe it is fire,3345maybe it is EMS, maybe it is law enforcement--to meet with3346local agencies and entities to understand are we meeting your3347objectives.3348    That is separate from the other part, which is the indices3349that we get from AT&T. Are you performing? How much outage do3350you have, where it is at? And as I said earlier, we are3351developing what we consider, the board, key index performance3352measures that are additional that we are trying to say, ``We3353need some more information here. We want some more3354information.''3355    Nobody has pushed back on that, but we are working through3356a very thoughtful process of things that we think is important3357for the public to know. So it is kind of bifurcated.3358    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it. And as the advisory, do you have3359authority to make your advice--to have them act on it?3360    Sheriff Adkinson. The board has the authority to act on the3361recommendations of the Public Safety Advocacy Committee, yes,3362ma'am.3363    Mrs. Fedorchak. OK. Very good.3364    Then second, you stressed that reinvestment must remain3365disciplined and aligned with mission needs.3366    How do you ensure that the reinvestment dollars are serving3367the first responders' operational needs and not subsidize the3368improvements to the underlying commercial network?3369    Sheriff Adkinson. Well, I think that is at the fundamental3370heart of it, right? We are asking where these dollars should be3371spent and whether or not they are a good return on investment.3372Now, that is fundamentally the responsibility of the board,3373quite frankly, and if we find out that it is not doing that,3374then we should take appropriate actions. And if you find out3375the board isn't doing that, you should remove board members.3376    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it.3377    Mr. Agnew, do you want to speak to that a little bit?3378    Mr. Agnew. Yes. We provide--and thank you for the question.3379We provide the Authority full transparency on our build plans,3380where the commercial network is going. So the Authority does3381not have to build there. Where the Authority builds is based3382off of those feedback from the workshops, based off of the3383feedback from public safety in those areas that weren't3384identified.3385    So it brings this powerful public-private partnership3386together. We have got this area covered; AT&T is going to do3387these areas; FirstNet, you cover these incremental areas. And3388that is how we have 200,000 more square miles covered, because3389of that partnership.3390    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it. All right. And one more followup3391question. I have a few seconds. You highlight, Mr. Agnew, that3392public safety agencies may choose among FirstNet, Verizon3393Frontline, or T-Mobile's T-Priority offerings.3394    Given that reality, what is the rationale for reinvestment3395funding being tied to an infrastructure that only works for3396users on one network?3397    Mr. Agnew. Right. It is important that single network, that3398it is secure, that it is interoperable, and it is held3399accountable for first responders. And that reinvestment dollars3400is going to go into the rural coverage. So we don't recommend3401diverting any of those funds that would take away from rural3402sites.3403    For example, 60 new sites were built in your area. You have3404got more coming based off of the response. We don't want to see3405that impacted. North Dakota needs the coverage.3406    Mrs. Fedorchak. Very good.3407    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.3408    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3409    The Chair recognizes Mr. Landsman for 5 minutes for your3410questions.3411    Mr. Landsman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, all3412of you for being here, everything that you have done.3413    And I want to start with you, Mr. Agnew. The work that you3414all have done to expand coverage, particularly as it relates to3415these dead zones, the investments that you have made, that3416won't result in any additional cost to first responders,3417correct?3418    Mr. Agnew. That is correct.3419    Mr. Landsman. OK. Thank you.3420    And this is a question for all of you. Part of, obviously,3421what happens here is that when there is an emergency, civilians3422get kicked off of Band 14. There is a 20 megahertz threshold on3423Band 14 for you all and first responders.3424    Is that enough? Is there any concern that as we go to3425reauthorize, that that number needs to be reevaluated?3426    I will start with you, Sheriff.3427    Sheriff Adkinson. I think the main thing is that we3428contemplate what is the actual spectrum used as we increase.3429Again, through this Internet of Things, data was not3430something--video data, for instance, was not something that we3431considered a number of years ago. We haven't tapped this3432spectrum out, but the reality is whatever is necessary to3433maintain the mission critical, that is what it needs to be.3434    I just don't know that I have a projection on what that is3435going to look like 5 to 10 years----3436    Mr. Landsman. I just think as you guys--as we work through3437the reauthorization, to make sure that the language is such3438that allows you to do that testing, because as I understand it3439the language would limit you to 20 megahertz. And you are3440right, things have changed in 20 years and you may use more.3441    Have you ever come close to using 20 megahertz?3442    Sheriff Adkinson. I would have to defer. I have not seen3443that since I have been onboard.3444    Mr. Agnew. As far as that question is concerned, so AT&T,3445as part of the contract and the commitment to the FirstNet3446Authority, Band 14 is utilized, but also all band priority is3447provided on the hundreds of megahertz of spectrum for first3448responders. So to say it has come close, there is more than3449enough spectrum as it stands.3450    However, needs evolve, right? Sheriff mentioned video and3451other technologies that are going to require looking to the3452future from a spectrum standpoint, and we can see that3453occurring now.3454    Mr. Landsman. Do we need to adjust the language in the3455statute?3456    Mr. Agnew. I will have to take that back.3457    Mr. Landsman. Yeah, great. It wasn't a leading question. I3458just was curious.3459    Mr. Dame. If I could add, Congressman. I think under3460section 6 of the draft bill, it does address that particular3461problem by expanding the definition of the network beyond just3462the core and the RAM and includes spectrum bands, and it3463reflects reality. As Mr. Agnew mentioned----3464    Mr. Landsman. Oh, I didn't put two and two--yeah, I do3465remember that, but I didn't put that together.3466    Mr. Dame. Right. And I think that particularly as 5G is3467predominant and we move into 6G, FirstNet Authority is going to3468need access to other bands that AT&T has available.3469    Mr. Landsman. So you feel like that covers you?3470    Mr. Dame. I think having the authority to get access to3471those AT&T bands is important----3472    Mr. Landsman. Yeah, that makes sense.3473    Mr. Dame [continuing]. And I think this definition does3474that, sir.3475    Mr. Landsman. Last question. Sheriff, 2042, contract is up.3476We have made a $15 billion investment as taxpayers. What do we3477own?3478    Sheriff Adkinson. The infrastructure itself, as previously3479stated, belongs with AT&T. What we own is essentially a3480currency of trust, which says we have built a network that is3481what law enforcement officers trust or public safety, first3482responders trust. We don't own an infrastructure past that. We3483own a concept. We own, again, a situation where this has become3484the name, if you will.3485    I actually am afraid of a day that we look at not having3486one provider, because I think there is a risk. I am going to be3487honest with you. From my standpoint, I know that we--our job is3488to hold AT&T responsible, right? What I never want to happen--3489what I never, never want to happen is multiple companies going,3490``No, no, it is their fault that this didn't work. They didn't3491meet the standard.''3492    Mr. Landsman. Yeah. No, I agree with that piece. I think,3493on behalf of taxpayers, owning more than just the concept and3494trust is something that should be discussed, and I suspect AT&T3495would be, you know, eager to have that conversation just3496because--well, I ran out of time. Sorry. I didn't mean to put3497you on the spot, but I think it is important as we work to3498reauthorize.3499    Thank you. I yield back.3500    Mr. Hudson. Thanks.3501    I will allow Mr. Agnew to respond if you want to.3502    Mr. Agnew. No, we can get back. We can get back.3503    Mr. Hudson. OK. Thank you.3504    The Chair now recognizes Representative Houchin for 53505minutes for her questions.3506    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you, Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member3507Matsui, and the witnesses for your testimony.3508    FirstNet exists because on September 11, first responders3509ran toward danger with communications that were fragmented,3510incompatible, and overwhelmed. Congress created FirstNet to3511make sure that never happens again. And since then, FirstNet3512has come a long way with the nationwide build-out adoptions3513broad, including in my State in Indiana, and the network is3514evolving and working on more modernization efforts.3515    But today's hearing isn't about just patting ourselves on3516the back for the good work that we have done to get this far.3517It is about ensuring that public safety communications are not3518just proven on their best days but their worst days and that3519governance and accountability behind the system have to be3520equally reliable.3521    Over the summer, I met with first responders in Ripley3522County, Indiana, who spoke directly about why FirstNet matters.3523When communications are reliable and interoperable, they can3524share information faster, coordinate resources more3525effectively, and keep both first responders and the public3526safer.3527    The Ripley County Sheriff's Department has since sent a3528letter of support, supporting FirstNet reauthorizations and3529emphasizing that FirstNet has been a vital and reliable partner3530that improves officer safety and operational effectiveness3531during emergencies.3532    Mr. Chairman, I would like to request unanimous consent to3533submit that letter for the record.3534    Mr. Hudson. Without objection, so ruled.3535    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]3536    Mrs. Houchin. I want to applaud Representatives Dunn and3537McClellan for this reauthorization effort as we work to3538strengthen the governance, increase public safety, and maybe3539hope to futureproof our emergency communications technology.3540    There have been, I think, some concerns over the future of3541FirstNet that I just wanted to particularly ask Mr. Agnew. As3542we are working toward this interoperability, FirstNet has done3543a great job of this rollout, making sure it is deployed and it3544is also widely accepted.3545    Do you feel--where do you feel we are going in terms of the3546next reauthorization? What would put that interoperability at3547most risk?3548    Mr. Agnew. So today, to clarify, the network is3549interoperable between other commercial providers. So that has3550been established. Where the network is and where it needs to go3551is to solve that land mobile radio/walkie-talkie integration,3552the legacy public safety networks that were so challenged3553during 9/11, which are still in use.3554    So we have technology. We have certified, validated,3555affordable technology in place today. That has got to be taken3556to the future. It is time for the next generation, highly3557affordable, highly scalable. It should not be hours, it should3558not be days for public safety to interoperate when Bloomington3559is supporting Indianapolis. It should just happen within3560seconds.3561    So that is the technology that we are deploying. We are3562held accountable for that. We signed a commitment to do it. So3563you have got this powerful public-private partnership of this3564willing technology company that has the skill set and the3565authority and oversight of the Government to ensure this3566happens, and that is what we signed up for.3567    We can't fail. We have to do it, and we are going to keep3568working until we get it right.3569    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you.3570    Sheriff Adkinson, the same kind of question to you: What do3571you see are the challenges that we should be paying attention3572to in terms of interoperability, making sure that everybody can3573communicate with one another moving forward in the next3574generation of FirstNet?3575    Sheriff Adkinson. I think the rate at which things are3576changing, the advancements in--what the expectations of the3577public is in regard to things like video, in regards to all the3578different devices that are required, we need to make sure that3579we set standards of what is acceptable and what is the3580performance measures that we are trying to get.3581    You know, we are talking about G. A G is about every 103582years, I think, before they replace them. So we are talking 5,3583but really we are starting to think 6, right? And what I don't3584want to do is for public safety to fall to the lowest common3585denominator. And so I want us to be constantly striving toward3586what is the best level of service that we can get provided.3587    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you.3588    As I conclude here, I just want to note that FirstNet has3589made real progress. The trust in the network does depend on how3590things perform under stress, how it is governed when problems3591arise. So with the sunset approaching, I look forward to3592continuing to work together for ensuring that this network is3593resilient and ready for the next generation.3594    Thank you.3595    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3596    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Joyce for 5 minutes for your3597questions.3598    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member3599Matsui, for allowing me to enjoin this important hearing.3600    From the Gettysburg battlefields in Adams County to close3601to the Flight 93 Memorial in Somerset County, I am honored to3602represent a district that includes expansive rural territories.3603Unfortunately, geographic barriers create challenges for law3604enforcement and first responders. We saw that during 9/11.3605    FirstNet's important work to improve public safety across3606the entire United States gives law enforcement and first3607responders a necessary tool to operate seamlessly during these3608times of crisis, and it is essential that the FirstNet network3609is built out in a way that prioritizes rural areas that are3610underserved and so often overlooked.3611    More than 2,100 agencies in Pennsylvania representing3612thousands of FirstNet connections--this is a district that I3613represent, and a new cell tower was unveiled by FirstNet and3614AT&T in Huntington County in 2022. I was proud to be there for3615that event. This marked an important development in expanding3616access to rural broadband infrastructure.3617    However, over the years it has become difficult and3618increasingly clear that FirstNet's ability to share the3619tracking of FirstNet's build-out and the progress has been not3620very transparent to many of those of us who are concerned about3621that. And as we know, the contract between AT&T and the Federal3622Government that determines the milestones for rural build-out3623is a private one. The build-out date itself is also private.3624    Congress must exercise oversight of FirstNet to ensure that3625complete and timely build-out is taking place, especially in3626rural areas that need coverage desperately.3627    Mr. Agnew, can you describe the rural build-out milestones3628that FirstNet adheres to?3629    Mr. Agnew. We are required to build out a 15 percent3630increase in rural build-out. We built out--we partnered with3631dozens of rural providers and built over 2,000 sites. We3632continue to partner with those rural providers to continue to3633expand.3634    Just to kind of take you through a journey. When the3635network was launched in 2017, the network coverage was 2.53636million square miles. As in my testimony, I said it is nearly 33637million square miles. That is a half million square miles, two3638sizes of Texas. Majority of that deployment has been in the3639rural areas.3640    Now, there is still more to go, and with the investment----3641    Mr. Joyce. How can we track where that build-out in rural3642areas has----3643    Mr. Agnew. Great question. That is a great question. So3644during the coverage workshops, it exposes where the network has3645gone and where the network is going. We also worked3646individually with each agency to expose that and see exactly3647where the build plan is, as well as they have their network3648status tool that they can look realtime at any moment to see3649where their network is going.3650    Mr. Joyce. Mr. Dame, earlier in this hearing it was stated3651that NTIA has made the FirstNet contract available to this3652subcommittee. The contract has, unfortunately, been difficult3653to retrieve.3654    Can you commit to sending the FirstNet contract to this3655subcommittee by the end of next week, Friday, February 13?3656    Mr. Dame. Yes.3657    Mr. Joyce. Thank you.3658    It is essential that Congress reauthorizes FirstNet's3659authority prior to its expiration. The future of public safety3660depends on it. The rural communities that I represent depend on3661it.3662    As we evaluate how to move forward, we must do so with3663transparency. We must do so with accountability and oversight3664at the forefront. We must be able to see the data to make sure3665that our rural communities are being prioritized in FirstNet's3666build-out and that the real milestones in the contract are both3667adequate and being adhered to.3668    Again, I thank you, Chairman Hudson, for allowing me to3669participate in this hearing, and I yield the remainder of my3670time.3671    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3672    And the Chair now recognizes Mr. Kean for 5 minutes for3673your questions.3674    Mr. Kean. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our3675witnesses for being here today. And thanks as well to those who3676are here in uniform for your extraordinary public service.3677    This hearing is an important opportunity to examine the3678FirstNet framework and build on a successful industry standard3679model to ensure dynamic, reliable, and forward-looking public3680safety communications over the course of the next decade.3681    I agree with many of the statements that have already been3682made about the importance of clarity, precision, and robust3683oversight in FirstNet. Nothing less will suffice for our first3684responders and the challenges that they face daily.3685    I am committed to continue to work to ensure that first3686responders have a seat at the table by ensuring access to3687cutting-edge preempted communication, by reauthorizing3688FirstNet, or by ensuring that their existing systems remain3689accessible, interoperable, and reliable for as long as they are3690needed.3691    Reauthorizing FirstNet is an important step in continuing3692to fully implement lessons learned from the past so the3693tragedies of 9/11 that impacted so many families in New Jersey,3694impacted so many families across this country, will never, ever3695happen again.3696    Sheriff Adkinson, what do you think is the right metric for3697determining whether FirstNet is fulfilling its statutory3698mandate, and, if needed, how can Congress improve3699accountability to fulfilling this mandate in a reauthorization?3700    Sheriff Adkinson. I think my take on this is there needs to3701be these indices that show a continued level of build-out and3702coverage enhancement each year. I think that should be provided3703in a manner that is readily available to Congress in a manner3704that you can see what has been built, where they are at, and I3705think it should be provided by the Authority on that basis.3706    Those are things that we have. Those are things that we can3707do. I think we need to set what are realistic expectations3708about when and how rural build-out should happen so that you3709know in advance. I think that is part of the problem, from my3710standpoint, is you have heard various Members today say, ``Hey,3711my constituents, my district, where are we at?''3712    I don't always know 2 and 3 years in the future, but we3713certainly have some idea what is coming next. Let's be open3714about that. Let's be realistic about that and set expectations3715that the public can understand. Let's be transparent about it.3716    Mr. Kean. Mr. Agnew, how well would you say that FirstNet3717has done in making sure decisions are driven by first3718responders themselves, and is there room for improvement?3719    Mr. Agnew. There is always room for improvement. It is3720public safety's network. It has to continue to improve over the3721next 18, 17 years. It has to improve in coverage. It has to3722improve the amount of deployables. It has to improve the3723response times. It has to improve the technology.3724    That is not to say it hasn't been successful. It just has3725to keep getting better for public safety. It has to operate3726like public safety. Every event they go to, they get better.3727This network will get better.3728    Mr. Kean. Thank you.3729    Mr. Dame, I will pose a similar question to you as I did to3730the sheriff: What lessons have we learned since FirstNet's3731inception, and what can we best use to improve organization,3732accountability so that FirstNet is providing the best service3733possible?3734    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Congressman. I think, at a minimum,3735Congress needs to seriously reauthorize FirstNet. As we have3736all learned, the market did not serve public safety responders3737before FirstNet. There is now a very competitive market.3738Reauthorization would resolve that.3739    I think in terms of the metrics that you asked the sheriff3740for the network, I think the availability of the network and3741the performance of the network are two areas that really should3742be monitored closely.3743    Mr. Kean. And as a followup, how can we best integrate the3744newest communications technology into the FirstNet program, and3745what are some examples of technologies that can be integrated3746in the future?3747    Mr. Dame. I mean, I think with future generations of3748technology, artificial intelligence, we are going to see3749unbelievable capabilities for first responders.3750    Mr. Kean. Thank you.3751    And then the final question with Mr. Agnew: When we talk3752about interoperability, what options are available to first3753responders for interoperability with their existing hardware,3754including land mobile radios?3755    Mr. Agnew. So, currently, commercial networks are3756interoperable with FirstNet. We have technology that allows for3757land mobile radio. We can provide you a much more in-depth3758discussion of exactly what the hardware is, but with Fusion and3759Fusion Link, it is going to take that hardware-based3760technology, put it in the cloud, make it so much easier to3761implement.3762    Mr. Kean. OK. Thank you all for being here and as well for3763your public service and dedication to all of our fellow3764Americans.3765    I yield back.3766    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.3767    Seeing there are no further Members wishing to be3768recognized, I would like to thank our witnesses for your3769excellent testimony today. I think it will be extremely helpful3770to the committee moving forward.3771    I remind Members they have 10 business days to submit3772questions for the record, and I ask the witnesses to respond to3773those questions promptly. Members should submit their questions3774by the close of business on February 18, 2026.3775    Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.3776    [Whereupon, at 1:14 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]3777    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]37783779[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]37803781                             [all]