H.Hrg.119

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                      MAKE ELECTIONS GREAT AGAIN:5                        HOW TO RESTORE TRUST AND6                     INTEGRITY IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                           COMMITTEE ON HOUSE14                             ADMINISTRATION1516                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1718                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1920                             SECOND SESSION2122                               __________2324                           FEBRUARY 10, 20262526                               __________2728      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration2930[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3132                             www.govinfo.gov33                           www.cha.house.gov3435                               __________3637                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE3863-001                      WASHINGTON : 202639=======================================================================4041                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION4243                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman4445LAUREL LEE, Florida, Vice Chair      JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,46BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia                 Ranking Member47H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama48GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          NORMA TORRES, California49STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             JULIE JOHNSON, Texas50MARY MILLER, Illinois51MIKE CAREY, Ohio5253                      Mike Platt,  Staff Director54                 Jamie Fleet,  Minority Staff Director5556                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S5758                              ----------59                                                                   Page6061                           Opening Statements6263Chairman Bryan Steil, Representative from the State of Wisconsin.     164    Prepared statement of Chairman Bryan Steil...................    1765Ranking Member Joseph Morelle, Representative from the State of66  New York.......................................................    1867    Prepared statement of Ranking Member Joseph Morelle..........    206869                               Witnesses7071Honorable Chuck Gray, Wyoming Secretary of State.................    2172    Prepared statement of Chuck Gray.............................    2473Honorable Ann Bollin, Michigan State Representative..............    2774    Prepared statement of Ann Bollin.............................    3075Mr. T. Russ Nobile, senior attorney, Judicial Watch..............    3776    Prepared statement of T. Russ Nobile.........................    3977Ms. Karen Brinson Bell, former executive director, North Carolina78  State Board of Elections.......................................    6979    Prepared statement of Karen Brinson Bell.....................    718081                       Submissions for the Record8283Washington Post article..........................................     484Axios article....................................................     985Valdosta Today article...........................................    1686League of Women Voters statement.................................    8187FairVote Action statement........................................    8688National Association of Counties letter..........................    9189New York Times article...........................................    9390Wyoming voter fraud report.......................................    9891Heritage Foundation election fraud map...........................   10092Dean C. Logan testimony..........................................   10793J. Kenneth Blackwell testimony...................................   1229495                      MAKE ELECTIONS GREAT AGAIN:96                        HOW TO RESTORE TRUST AND97                     INTEGRITY IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS9899                              ----------100101                           February 10, 2026102103                 Committee on House Administration,104                                  House of Representatives,105                                                   Washington, D.C.106    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:20 a.m., in107room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil108[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.109    Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith, Bice,110Carey, Lee, Miller, Morelle, Sewell, Torres, and Johnson.111    Staff present: Mike Platt, Staff Director; Rachel Collins,112General Counsel; Abby Salter, Deputy General Counsel; Josh113Weber, Counsel; Cole Hernandez, Counsel; Jordan Wilson,114Director of Member Services; Kristen Monterroso, Director of115Operations; Annemarie Cake, Professional Staff and Deputy116Clerk; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Khalil Abboud,117Minority Deputy Staff Director; Nikolas Youngsmith, Minority118Policy Director; Sarah Nasta, Minority Senior Advisor and119Director of Outreach; and Owen Reilly, Minority Senior Advisor.120121    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE122 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM123                           WISCONSIN124125    Chairman Steil. The Committee on House Administration will126come to order.127    The title of today's hearing is ``Making Elections Great128Again: How to Restore Trust and Integrity in Federal129Elections.''130    I note that a quorum is present.131    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any132time.133    Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain134open for 5 legislative days so Members may submit any materials135they wish to be included therein.136    Thank you, Ranking Member Morelle, Members of the137Committee, and our witnesses for participating in our hearing138today.139    I will now recognize myself for the purpose of making an140opening statement.141    Article I, section 4 of the United States Constitution142grants the power to regulate the ``time, place, and manner'' of143Federal elections. However, the Constitution also gives144Congress the power to make or alter those regulations at any145time.146    Federal election law was last updated in 2009. In the years147since, voter confidence has dropped. The Biden administration's148failed immigration policies resulted in over 10 million illegal149aliens pouring into our country during that time period. Some150States send every registered voter a ballot. Fourteen States do151not require photo identification.152    This is why Congress must implement common-sense election153integrity reforms. This is why I have introduced the Make154Elections Great Again Act, or the MEGA Act.155    Here is the top line. Elections should end on election day.156You should need a photo identification to cast a ballot. You157must be a citizen of the United States of America to vote in a158Federal election. We need auditable paper ballots. We should159not be sending ballots to people that do not request them.160    These reforms alone will improve voter confidence,161strengthen election integrity, and continue to make it easy to162vote and hard to cheat.163    This is a product of years of work and collaboration. We164sought feedback from State and local election officials. We165continue that dialogue here today.166    Delays in election results weaken voter confidence.167Thousands of ballots cannot arrive days after election day,168which is exactly what I witnessed when I was at Los Angeles169County Central Count days after the November 2024 election.170    Noncitizens on voter rolls weaken voter confidence. We171cannot allow someone to say that they are a citizen simply by172registering to vote by simply checking a box--without173verification.174    For example, that is exactly what Ian Roberts, an illegal175alien, did when he registered to vote in the State of Maryland.176    Stories like this undermine America's trust in our177elections. We are here to fix that.178    Today you may hear Democrats make outlandish claims about179these common-sense policies. Former Senate Majority Leader180Chuck Schumer recently called these proposals ``Jim crow 2.0.''181Leader Jeffries repeatedly referred to these policies as182``voter suppression.''183    Those statements are false, and they insult the184intelligence of the American people.185    They are also the exact same arguments that were made when186Georgia passed their election integrity law in 2021. As you may187recall, major corporations took out full-page ads in newspapers188decrying the bill. Major League Baseball moved the All-Star189Game out of Atlanta.190    President Biden called the Georgia law--you guessed it--191``Jim Crow 2.0.'' Stacey Abrams, the twice-failed Georgia192gubernatorial candidate, never hesitated to call it voter193``suppression.''194    They were wrong then, as Democrats are wrong now.195    In Georgia, the law passed. Georgia has held two statewide196elections since. What does this tell us? We can look at the197empirical data, and the data tells a far different story than198the Democrats would like it to do.199    Let us take a minute and review what has taken place in200Georgia. Without objection, I would like to insert three news201articles to the record:202    ``Voting is surging in Georgia despite controversial new203election law'' from The Washington Post--yes, The Washington204Post.205    Axios: ``Record-breaking early voting in Georgia Senate206runoff.''207    And Valdosta Today: ``University of Georgia post-election208poll dispels voter suppression myth.''209    All entered into the record. I encourage you to read them.210    [The articles referred to follow:]211    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]212213    The independent Georgia survey referenced in the last214article I think is really important to explore further.215    The University of Georgia did a large and substantive216review of the Georgia 2022 general election after the election217integrity legislation was passed.218    Ninety-five percent of voters reported ``excellent'' or219``good'' in their experience of the election, and that positive220impression was across all key demographic groups. That is221important, because, notably, zero percent of Black voters222reported a ``poor'' or negative experience in the State of223Georgia statistically. Additionally, 75 percent of voters224waited less than 10 minutes in line to cast a ballot.225    What does all this mean?226    The common-sense reforms House Republicans are proposing227today will ensure it remains easy to vote but hard to cheat.228    Elections should end on election day.229    You need a photo ID to cast a ballot.230    You need to be a citizen to vote.231    You need an auditable paper trail.232    You should not mail a ballot to people that do not request233them.234    These are common sense. That is why they are popular. It is235time we make them standard in American elections.236    Today we have an opportunity to have this conversation and237to move forward on real and substantive election integrity in238the United States.239    I thank our witnesses for being here today.240    I now will recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5241minutes for the purpose of providing his opening statement.242    [The prepared statement of Chairman Steil follows:]243244   PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE245                   ADMINISTRATION BRYAN STEIL246247    Article I, section 4 of the United States Constitution248grants the power to regulate the ``time, place, and manner'' of249Federal elections. However, the Constitution also gives250Congress the power to make or alter those regulations at any251time. Federal election law was last updated in 2009. In the252years since, voter confidence has dropped. The Biden253administration's failed immigration policies resulted in over25410 million illegal aliens pouring into our country during that255time period. Some States send every registered voter a ballot.256Fourteen States do not require photo identification.257    This is why Congress must implement common-sense election258integrity reforms. This is why I have introduced the Make259Elections Great Again Act, or the MEGA Act.260    Here is the top line. Elections should end on election day.261You should need a photo identification to cast a ballot. You262must be a citizen of the United States of America to vote in a263Federal election. We need auditable paper ballots. We should264not be sending ballots to people that do not request them.265    These reforms alone will improve voter confidence,266strengthen election integrity, and continue to make it easy to267vote and hard to cheat. This is a product of years of work and268collaboration. We sought feedback from State and local election269officials. We continue that dialogue here today. Delays in270election results weaken voter confidence. Thousands of ballots271cannot arrive days after election day, which is exactly what I272witnessed when I was at Los Angeles County Central Count days273after the November 2024 election.274    Noncitizens on voter rolls weaken voter confidence. We275cannot allow someone to say that they are a citizen simply by276registering to vote by simply checking a box--without277verification.278    For example, that is exactly what Ian Roberts, an illegal279alien, did when he registered to vote in the State of Maryland.280Stories like this undermine America's trust in our elections.281We are here to fix that. Today you may hear Democrats make282outlandish claims about these common-sense policies. Former283Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer recently called these284proposals ``Jim crow 2.0.'' Leader Jeffries repeatedly referred285to these policies as ``voter suppression.''286    Those statements are false, and they insult the287intelligence of the American people. They are also the exact288same arguments that were made when Georgia passed their289election integrity law in 2021. As you may recall, major290corporations took out full page ads in newspapers decrying the291bill. Major League Baseball moved the All Star Game out of292Atlanta. President Biden called the Georgia law--you guessed293it--``Jim Crow 2.0.'' Stacey Abrams, the twice failed Georgia294gubernatorial candidate, never hesitated to call it voter295``suppression.'' They were wrong then, as Democrats are wrong296now. In Georgia, the law passed. Georgia has held two statewide297elections since. What does this tell us? We can look at the298empirical data, and the data tells a far different story than299the Democrats would like it to do. Let us take a minute and300review what has taken place in Georgia. Without objection, I301would like to insert three news articles to the record:302``Voting is surging in Georgia despite controversial new303election law'' from The Washington Post--yes, The Washington304Post. Axios: ``Record breaking early voting in Georgia Senate305runoff.'' And Valdosta Today: ``University of Georgia post306election poll dispels voter suppression myth.'' All entered307into the record. I encourage you to read them. The independent308Georgia survey referenced in the last article I think is really309important to explore further.310    The University of Georgia did a large and substantive311review of the Georgia 2022 general election after the election312integrity legislation was passed. Ninety-five percent of voters313reported ``excellent'' or ``good'' in their experience of the314election, and that positive impression was across all key315demographic groups. That is important, because, notably, zero316percent of Black voters reported a ``poor'' or negative317experience in the State of Georgia statistically. Additionally,31875 percent of voters waited less than 10 minutes in line to319cast a ballot. What does all this mean?320    The common-sense reforms House Republicans are proposing321today will ensure it remains easy to vote but hard to cheat.322Elections should end on election day. You need a photo ID to323cast a ballot. You need to be a citizen to vote. You need an324auditable paper trail. You should not mail a ballot to people325that do not request them. These are common sense. That is why326they are popular. It is time we make them standard in American327elections. Today we have an opportunity to have this328conversation and to move forward on real and substantive329election integrity in the United States.330331OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE332 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM333                            NEW YORK334335    Mr. Morelle. Good morning.336    Thank you, Chairman Steil.337    Thank you to the witnesses for being here.338    There is nothing to gain and everything to lose from hiding339from the truth, because the truth is our last best line of340defense--defense against an administration willing to abandon341any pretense at honesty or integrity as they try desperately342and corruptly to cling to power, an administration that long343ago surrendered any imperative they felt to tell the truth.344    When Federal agents gunned down American citizens on the345streets of Minneapolis, first a mother and then an ICU nurse346that had veterans as his patients, this administration's first347instinct was to try to deceive the public.348    Two, despite video evidence, spread false claims about the349events leading up to the murders, to smear dead Americans,350calling them domestic terrorists.351    In the face of this dishonesty, those of us who would352defend this Republic have a moral obligation to say forcefully,353loudly what we know to be true, and this is what we know:354Donald Trump and congressional Republicans are terrified that355they will lose the next election.356    The American people over and over again for the past year357have rejected the President's policies at the ballot box;358resounding defeats for Trump-aligned candidate across the359country, from Virginia to Texas, and this weekend in the360Speaker's home State of Louisiana.361    Because President Trump has done nothing to make the lives362of the American people better, nothing to make things less363expensive, nothing to make us safer.364    Because of these failures, Republicans know they have one365hope at winning the next election:366    Change the rules of the game, destroy the rule of law, and367desert any last remaining shred of allegiance to the United368States Constitution.369    Redrawing congressional lines to make them better for370Republicans, changing the rules of elections, brutalizing371American citizens who exercise their rights under the U.S.372Constitution.373    This scheme is not just how Republicans plan to take over374our elections, it is how they plan to take over our country, to375irrevocably destroy the American principles of peace,376prosperity, equality that we all hold dear.377    I want the administration to know, and anyone who would378align with them, people on this Committee, we see what you are379doing. We will not let it happen.380    That is why Homeland Security Committee Ranking Member381Bennie Thompson and I sent a letter to this Committee and the382Chairman last week. We requested the Committee hear directly383from Attorney General Pam Bondi and Secretary Noem about the384Trump administration's attempt to extort an American State,385holding Minnesotans hostage literally at the barrel of a gun in386exchange for voter file information.387    If this majority cared about election integrity, why aren't388we investigating this horrendous abuse of power? Why aren't we389demanding answers from this DOJ, from this DHS, from the390administration that, by the President's own admission, wants to391nationalize elections to help Republicans win?392    He says the quiet part out loud: Help Republicans win.393    Today we are apparently discussing the Make Elections Great394Again Act, or at least I think that is what it is about,395because Republicans cannot seem to decide.396    Our House colleagues have been talking about the SAVE397America Act. We are voting on that bill tomorrow. Senate398Republicans are talking about the SAVE Act.399    Really, all these bills have the same outcome: They are the400Trump elections takeover bills. We know this because the401President has said so himself. He said we want to take over. We402should take over the voting in at least 15 places. The403Republicans ought to nationalize the voting.404    Where are the Republicans who once claimed they believed in405the power of States to run elections? Because these bills will406destroy that State power.407    This bill gives nine separate authorities to the Department408of Homeland Security, the Department that has unleashed ICE and409Border Patrol onto our streets, harassing and attacking410American citizens to interfere in State and local elections.411    Even some congressional Republicans have called on412Secretary Noem to resign. Why would we give her access to413personal, private information of American voters?414    What is more, this bill gives Pam Bondi the power to415unilaterally withhold all election funding to any State she416chooses.417    I ask the American people this: Do you want Donald Trump418running your elections? Do you want Pam Bondi or Kristi Noem419running your elections?420    I want every American to know, this is not President421Trump's election to take over. It is yours. He wants to take422your power for himself.423    You, the American people, will determine the outcome of424midterm elections, not Donald Trump, not Kristi Noem, not Pam425Bondi.426    We see what the administration is planning, and we will427stop them, even if congressional Republicans will not.428    Thank you. I yield back.429    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Morelle follows:]430431PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE432                 ADMINISTRATION JOSEPH MORELLE433434    There is nothing to gain and everything to lose from hiding435from the truth, because the truth is our last best line of436defense--defense against an administration willing to abandon437any pretense at honesty or integrity as they try desperately438and corruptly to cling to power, an administration that long439ago surrendered any imperative they felt to tell the truth.440When Federal agents gunned down American citizens on the441streets of Minneapolis, first a mother and then an ICU nurse442that had veterans as his patients, this administration's first443instinct was to try to deceive the public.444    Two, despite video evidence, spread false claims about the445events leading up to the murders, to smear dead Americans,446calling them domestic terrorists. In the face of this447dishonesty, those of us who would defend this Republic have a448moral obligation to say forcefully, loudly what we know to be449true, and this is what we know: Donald Trump and congressional450Republicans are terrified that they will lose the next451election.452    The American people over and over again for the past year453have rejected the President's policies at the ballot box;454resounding defeats for Trump aligned candidate across the455country, from Virginia to Texas, and this weekend in the456Speaker's home State of Louisiana. Because President Trump has457done nothing to make the lives of the American people better,458nothing to make things less expensive, nothing to make us459safer. Because of these failures, Republicans know they have460one hope at winning the next election: Change the rules of the461game, destroy the rule of law, and desert any last remaining462shred of allegiance to the United States Constitution.463Redrawing congressional lines to make them better for464Republicans, changing the rules of elections, brutalizing465American citizens who exercise their rights under the U.S.466Constitution.467    This scheme is not just how Republicans plan to take over468our elections, it is how they plan to take over our country, to469irrevocably destroy the American principles of peace,470prosperity, equality that we all hold dear. I want the471administration to know, and anyone who would align with them,472people on this Committee, we see what you are doing. We will473not let it happen. That is why Homeland Security Committee474Ranking Member Bennie Thompson and I sent a letter to this475Committee and the Chairman last week. We requested the476Committee hear directly from Attorney General Pam Bondi and477Secretary Noem about the Trump administration's attempt to478extort an American State, holding Minnesotans hostage literally479at the barrel of a gun in exchange for voter file information.480    If this majority cared about election integrity, why aren't481we investigating this horrendous abuse of power? Why aren't we482demanding answers from this DOJ, from this DHS, from the483administration that, by the President's own admission, wants to484nationalize elections to help Republicans win? He says the485quiet part out loud: Help Republicans win.486    Today we are apparently discussing the Make Elections Great487Again Act, or at least I think that is what it is about,488because Republicans cannot seem to decide. Our House colleagues489have been talking about the SAVE America Act. We are voting on490that bill tomorrow. Senate Republicans are talking about the491SAVE Act. Really, all these bills have the same outcome: They492are the Trump elections takeover bills. We know this because493the President has said so himself. He said we want to take494over. We should take over the voting in at least 15 places. The495Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. Where are the496Republicans who once claimed they believed in the power of497States to run elections? Because these bills will destroy that498State power. This bill gives nine separate authorities to the499Department of Homeland Security, the Department that has500unleashed ICE and Border Patrol onto our streets, harassing and501attacking American citizens to interfere in State and local502elections.503    Even some congressional Republicans have called on504Secretary Noem to resign. Why would we give her access to505personal, private information of American voters? What is more,506this bill gives Pam Bondi the power to unilaterally withhold507all election funding to any State she chooses. I ask the508American people this: Do you want Donald Trump running your509elections? Do you want Pam Bondi or Kristi Noem running your510elections? I want every American to know, this is not President511Trump's election to take over. It is yours. He wants to take512your power for himself. You, the American people, will513determine the outcome of midterm elections, not Donald Trump,514not Kristi Noem, not Pam Bondi. We see what the administration515is planning, and we will stop them, even if congressional516Republicans will not.517518    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.519    Without objection, all other Members' opening statements520will be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted521to the Committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.522    Today we have one witness panel. First, we have Wyoming523Secretary of State Chuck Gray. Next, we have Michigan State524Representative Ann Bollin. Next, we have Mr. Russ Nobile,525senior attorney at Judicial Watch. Finally, we have Karen526Brinson Bell, principal and co-founder of Advance Elections.527    We appreciate all of you being with us today and look528forward to your testimony.529    I will now recognize Secretary Gray for 5 minutes for the530purpose of giving his 5-minute opening statement.531532 STATEMENTS OF THE HONORABLE CHUCK GRAY, WYOMING SECRETARY OF533STATE; THE HONORABLE ANN BOLLIN, MICHIGAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE;534 MR. T. RUSS NOBILE, SENIOR ATTORNEY, JUDICIAL WATCH; AND MS.535 KAREN BRINSON BELL, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NORTH CAROLINA536                    STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS537538                    STATEMENT OF CHUCK GRAY539540    Mr. Gray. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, Members541of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify542before you today.543    As Wyoming's Secretary of State and Wyoming's chief544election official, I am pleased to testify in complete support545of the Make Elections Great Again Act.546    The MEGA Act creates baseline common-sense standards for547integrity, security, and confidence in Federal elections across548the United States.549    It is also key in fulfilling President Trump's executive550order preserving and protecting the integrity of American551elections, of which I also stand in complete support of.552    These are election integrity measures that Americans widely553support, and I appreciate your work to get them to the finish554line.555    As a Member of the Wyoming State Legislature and now as556Wyoming's Secretary of State and chief election official, I557work to advance and defend the protections to our elections set558forth in the MEGA Act, many of which we have successfully559instituted in Wyoming, including as the lead sponsor of State560legislation requiring voter ID to cast a ballot in an election561in 2021, requiring documentary proof of United States562citizenship to register to vote in 2025, banning rank choice563voting, instituting election day deadlines for receipt of564ballots, and banning the private funding of election565administration, otherwise known as ``Zuck Bucks.''566    These measures have withstood scrutiny and legal challenge567and are being successfully implemented in Wyoming elections in568accordance with Wyoming law. They are easy to implement, and569they are right.570    I want to speak specifically in support of the MEGA Act's571common-sense provision to require documentary proof of United572States citizenship for registering to vote in Federal573elections.574    Despite the worn-out cries we hear from the radical left,575requiring proof of U.S. citizenship to vote is not576overburdensome.577    On the contrary, it is essential to ensuring enforcement of578Federal law, which unambiguously requires U.S. citizenship to579vote.580    Requiring proof of U.S. citizenship to vote was the No. 1581priority of our administration's Election Integrity Reform582Agenda announced ahead of Wyoming's 2025 legislative session.583    In partnership with the Wyoming Legislature, we brought584this landmark legislation into law, patterned off the585requirements of both the MEGA Act and the SAVE Act to verify a586person's citizenship when they register to vote through587documentary proof of citizenship.588    On the eve of our proof of citizenship measure taking589effect, Democrat Attorney Marc Elias filed a Federal lawsuit to590block this voter integrity law. Immediately our administration591went to work preparing a vigorous defense.592    The lawsuit over Wyoming's landmark proof of citizenship593law drew national attention, attracting the support of594President Trump's Department of Justice, the Republican595National Committee, and Republican attorneys general, all who596filed briefs in support of our position, and I thank them for597their support.598    We prevailed in this lawsuit. On July 22, 2025, the United599States District Court for the District of Wyoming granted our600motion to dismiss this Federal lawsuit, finding that Marc Elias601could find no one--again, no one--who was actually harmed or602could be harmed by this new election integrity law.603    This is because in Wyoming, as in the rest of the country,604it is easy for all eligible U.S. citizens to obtain acceptable605identification proving their citizenship. The radical left's606claims to the contrary are simply untrue and defy reality.607    It is so important that we pass the MEGA Act to require608that documentary proof of U.S. citizenship in all Federal609elections so that these protections can be in place across the610United States.611    Now transitioning to voter ID. This widely supported612election integrity reform is also simple to implement. Before613we passed it, Wyomingites would show their license at the polls614even though it was not required, and every election cycle I615would get calls from Wyomingites who asked me why on Earth616voter ID was not required.617    It became a mission to pass voter ID. After we got voter ID618to the finish line in 2021, the response we have had at the619polls from Wyomingites is, ``Thank you. Thank you for having620this basic protection of our elections.''621    It is easy for the necessary identification to be attained.622Citizen just goes to our motor vehicle services, completes the623necessary application, and the Department of Transportation624takes it from there.625    Now to Wyoming's deadline requiring all ballots to be626received by the end of election day. When ballots are received627after election day, it opens up the election process to fraud,628confusion, and uncertainty.629    That is why the MEGA Act's provision stating that election630day is the deadline for receipt of ballots so we have631uniformity and rigor around this issue is so important.632    In Wyoming we are constantly striving to improve our633elections and continue to work on bringing through the other634reforms found in the MEGA Act. These include measures to ban635ballot harvesting and institute a uniform auditable standard636pen-and-paper ballot requirement.637    I applaud the Committee for spearheading this work at the638Federal level that has widespread support from Americans, and I639stand with President Trump and you in working to achieve these640goals.641    Let me be clear: The MEGA Act standards are implementable,642common sense, and essential to restoring the integrity and643security of elections across the United States.644    Thank you, and happy to stand for questions.645    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gray follows:]646647                PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHUCK GRAY648[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]649650    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.651    I now recognize Representative Bollin for 5 minutes.652653                    STATEMENT OF ANN BOLLIN654655    Ms. Bollin. Chairman Steil, Members of the Committee, thank656you for the opportunity to testify.657    My name is Ann Bollin, and I currently serve as the chair658of the Michigan House Appropriations Committee and previously659chaired the House Elections and Ethics Committee working on660election policy and oversight.661    Prior to that, I was a local clerk for 16 years responsible662for administering elections, local, State, and Federal.663    My experience has both been practical and bipartisan.664    After the 2020 election as elections chair, I negotiated665broad bipartisan improvements to Michigan election law,666expanding options for polling locations, strengthening drop box667security and chain of custody standards.668    My focus has always been simple: Make it easy to vote and669hard to cheat.670    Today, many Americans hold real concerns about election671security and fairness. This Act gives us a chance to set clear,672reasonable baseline standards for Federal elections to help673States deliver consistency, transparency, and trust.674    The Constitution grants primary responsibility to States675for the time, place, and manner of elections, and the authority676exists with Congress to establish baseline standards for677Federal elections.678    This Act is not about Federalizing elections. It is an679opportunity to approach election policy in a practical and680apolitical manner.681    After the extremely close, controversial Presidential682election in 2000, Congress passed the Help America Vote Act683because it was revealed that the U.S. lacked consistent,684reliable, and modern election administration practices.685Congress also acted with UOCAVA and later the MOVE Act.686    These are all Federal baseline standards that supported687State administration and strengthened Federal elections, and688they made sense for the time.689    The 2020 election revealed similar variations in election690practices and laws.691    Today is an opportunity for all of us to revive the trust692of the American people in our elections and end this adolescent693boys game of dodgeball, bringing common sense and widely694supported safeguards to ensure we have fair and secure695elections.696    This starts and stops with solid voter rolls for U.S.697citizens only. The American public is resoundingly in support698of this. Eighty-three percent support only U.S. citizens voting699and using an ID for elections.700    Requiring photo ID to cast a ballot is a common-sense step701that aligns with everyday life. Voter ID requirements can be702implemented while ensuring access, with the goal of the703requirement of clarity, security, and broad participation by704those who are eligible to vote.705    When voters know that everyone is playing by the same706rules, trust grows. That trust benefits everyone.707    Adopting photo ID protocols nationally should be an708essential element of our elections. Photo IDs should be709current, and current should be clearly defined. Photo ID710protects the voter and the election administrator.711    Voter registration is the foundation of accurate voter712rolls. The MEGA Act's emphasis on citizenship verification at713the time of registration reflects a very basic principle:714Federal elections are for United States citizens.715    Documentary proof of citizenship when registering would716create a clear and consistent standard across States.717Registration should not be considered complete without this718proof. Suggesting this will harm certain demographics is both719disingenuous and insulting.720    Nationally, we just completed the REAL ID process which721showed nationwide identity verification efforts can be722implemented thoughtfully and effectively.723    Registration list maintenance should include cross-check724verification. Access to cross-checking data should remain with725election administrators and never be transferred to third726parties.727    Government data sources can assist in this effort as a728clear and usable pathway for States to manage their voter729rolls.730    Accurate voter rolls are the bedrock of secure elections.731Federal baseline standards, including list maintenance, can732support States in carrying this out consistently.733    Baseline standards can generate better protections and734improve election administration, supporting quality control.735Standardized post-election and performance audits can help736improve administration by enabling early identification of737procedural shortfalls before they become a problem.738    Key ballot standards are paramount. Paper ballots with739numbered stubs should be used in all elections. They should be740printed with safeguards, such as bar codes or watermarks, to741prevent fraudulent ballots.742    Ballot and voter harvesting should be treated as harsh743offenses with stiff penalties.744    In-person election day voting and early voting should be745limited. All mail-in ballots should be considered absent voter746ballots. They should require an application, stating a reason747and a wet signature.748    Too many States have removed the application requirement749creating opportunities for fraud. All application and ballot750activities should be date and time stamped by an election751official consistent with Federal regulations.752    A thorough chain of custody from start to finish ensures753the greatest level of integrity for a recount, the canvass, the754certification, or post-election audits.755    Efforts to reestablish Federal baseline standards will take756commitment. As Michigan House appropriations chair, I am757compelled to encourage adequate funding for our elections, not758third-party funding.759    I generally do not welcome Big Brother, but I do think760elections should be considered key infrastructure if we are to761avoid systematic overhaul of our elections by States through762ranked choice voting, QR code voting, ballots on demand and the763like. Consideration of funding contingent upon compliance with764the Act accelerates its implementation.765    Finally, the MEGA Act provides an opportunity to establish766practical nationwide baseline standards for Federal elections767while respecting the rules of States administering them.768    With thoughtful implementation, we can make elections work769better for voters, election officials, candidates, and our770country to ensure every eligible voter can vote freely,771secretly, independently, and securely.772    Thank you again for the opportunity to share my773perspective, and I look forward to your questions.774    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bollin follows:]775776                PREPARED STATEMENT OF ANN BOLLIN777[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]778779    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.780    Mr. Nobile, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.781782                  STATEMENT OF T. RUSS NOBILE783784    Mr. Nobile. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Members of the785Committee. My name is Russell Nobile. I am an election786integrity lawyer at Judicial Watch.787    The core point of my testimony is simple: Public confidence788in the integrity of elections is declining. The decline is not789driven by lack of ballot access, but rather inadequate and lax790enforcement of basic election integrity safeguards.791    The data tells a clear story. Voter registration and792turnout continue to go higher, and minority ballot access is at793or near record levels. Historical racial disparities supporting794the need to promote ballot access have largely been eliminated.795    At the same time, the public strongly supports common-sense796election integrity measures. Large majorities support voter ID797and uniform election deadlines. They support proof of798citizenship requirements and clean registration lists.799    Yet, despite this consensus, many States have moved to800undermine election integrity. One of the most troubling shifts801has been the expansion of universal mail voting, which sends802unsolicited ballots automatically to all voters regardless of803eligibility.804    My written testimony describes how progressive politicians805proposed this very system a hundred years ago. It was a bad806idea then. It remains a bad idea.807    No mature democracy would adopt such an insecure voting808system. Among other ills, it weakens chain of custody809protections, it increases the risk of coercion, and brings that810risk of coercion to people's houses, a real risk for vulnerable811voters. It risks third-party interference and administrative812error. It erodes public trust in elections.813    Universal mail voting is bad policy in any context, but it814is particularly bad when combined with inaccurate voter815registration lists.816    Not long ago, the Supreme Court found that 24 million817registrations, about one in eight in the United States, are818invalid or inaccurate, and 2.75 million people were registered819in multiple States.820    Dirty lists have long been the gateway for other election821mischief. Take California, who Judicial Watch is suing right822now on behalf of the Libertarian Party. It has both universal823mail voting and dirty registration lists. Our own internal824analysis found that 21 counties, with approximately 6 million825voters, removed a combined 11 voters over 2 years for change of826address. That is 11 voters removed from a group of 6 million,82711 over 2 years.828    The NVRA imposes modest list maintenance duties on States,829and it guarantees organizations like Judicial Watch access to830list maintenance records so we can verify compliance with831Federal law.832    Many States fail under both Federal obligations. Many do833not conduct meaningful list maintenance. When we simply ask834them for the records to verify, as we are allowed to under835Federal law, they refuse, delay, or claim the records do not836exist.837    Now, they are not even giving the records to the Department838of Justice, where I formerly worked, and would ordinarily ask839for these records from 2004 to 2010.840    Those refusals are not just technical oversights. They841defeat transparency, they prevent public oversight, and842undermine public confidence in the election administration.843    Last year Judicial Watch reported that our enforcement844efforts over the years have resulted in more than 5 million845ineligible registrations being removed nationwide--5 million.846    Despite our success, we have barely moved the needle. Just847last month, Oregon's new Secretary of State announced that they848needed to remove 800,000 inactive voters in response to our849lawsuit. The evidence shows that Oregon has not removed voters850since 2017.851    While Oregon's announcement is progress, it illustrates852just how pervasive State noncompliance has become. We have853other suits pending.854    Finally, I address the recent trends where States are855allowing ballots to arrive days and weeks after election day.856    For the last 5 years, my colleagues and I have sued several857States challenging this practice, and last month the Supreme858Court ruled in our favor in the first case in which we859represent Congressman Michael Bost in his suit against860Illinois. It took 4 years to get a Federal court to say that we861could sue, and finally the Supreme Court agreed.862    The regressive practice of allowing ballots to roll in for863days and weeks after election day is chiefly responsible for864creating the banana republic-style confusion that follows865American elections today.866    Judicial Watch's client, Libertarian Party in Mississippi,867along with the RNC, successfully sued Mississippi in 2024 over868this same practice. We won.869    Then yesterday we filed our brief with the Supreme Court to870defend our win. The Supreme Court will hear that case on March87123. Our brief is attached in the record. Seventy-six percent of872the public support it.873    History explains why election integrity safeguards exist.874They are not adopted by accident, and they are not racist.875    Thank you for inviting me to testify today. I look forward876to your questions.877    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nobile follows:]878879              PREPARED STATEMENT OF T. RUSS NOBILE880[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]881882    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.883    Ms. Brinson Bell, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.884885                STATEMENT OF KAREN BRINSON BELL886887    Ms. Brinson Bell. Thank you, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member888Morelle, and Members of the Committee. I appreciate the889opportunity to testify today.890    My name is Karen Brinson Bell, and from June 1, 2019, until891May 14, 2025, I had the honor of serving as North Carolina's892chief election official and the executive director of the State893Board of Elections.894    I oversaw the voting process for more than 7.5 million895registered voters and led the 100 county boards of elections896through hurricanes, a global pandemic, and record-setting897turnout.898    Since 2006, I have served in various roles at the county,899State, and national levels within the elections profession.900Like my colleagues across the country, my work is always901nonpartisan.902    As principal and co-founder of the firm Advance Elections,903I now consult with election officials across our country on904improving resilience in emergency situations and securing our905elections.906    I was proud to testify last year before the Subcommittee on907Elections, and I thank Chairwoman Lee and Ranking Member Sewell908for the opportunity to bring to Congress the story of the909people of western North Carolina who did heroic work to910maintain voting access in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene.911    I know from firsthand experience that election officials at912the State and local level historically have not and currently913do not receive sufficient support from our Federal partners.914    All of the Members of this Committee were elected by915ballots that were prepared and paid for almost entirely by916State and local governments.917    Everything that ensured that your election was accessible918to voters, that only eligible voters could vote, and that their919ballots could be counted as cast, all of it was run by local920and State officials. Nearly all of it, 96 percent--yes, 96921percent--was paid for by State and local governments.922    Congress has appropriated some money through the critical923Election Security Grants program, including $45 million in the924latest round of appropriations.925    While welcome, $45 million is in no way sufficient for926election officials grappling with rising costs and increasing927threats.928    I have reviewed the MEGA Act and the SAVE America Act, both929of which would impose substantial new Federal mandates. I did930Control F for the dollar sign, and I did not see a single931dollar, much less the hundreds of millions needed to implement932these changes.933    The rigid photo ID mandates would sweep away current934systems even in most States with voter ID law, placing935additional ID requirements in many States. The bill would936require equipping election offices with the means to verify IDs937for every mail-in ballot, requiring an investment in new938technology and additional staff.939    For context, the recent inclusion of photo ID documentation940with the return of the ballot in North Carolina required a941significant redesign of the mail ballot envelope.942    It led to increased postage costs and necessitated the943development of administrative rules, including a public comment944period, submission to the Rules Review Commission, extensive945training, and voter outreach.946    The implementation of voter ID in North Carolina alone was947a multi-million-dollar endeavor with a considerable runway and948years of litigation.949    Next, the bill's nationwide documentary proof of950citizenship mandates would require local election officials to951act as document verifiers, an enormously expanded role for952which they are not staffed or funded.953    Let us not forget the bigger picture. A nationwide proof of954citizenship mandate that does not allow States to tailor955policies to their own needs would disenfranchise eligible956voters.957    When Kansas attempted to implement a proof of citizenship958in 2014, even with a year-and-a-half of implementation time, 12959percent of applicants were denied registration for failing to960provide documentary proof of citizenship. Virtually all of961those denied registration were, in fact, eligible.962    The bill's list maintenance procedures are also963unnecessarily burdensome, costly, and do not provide964flexibility to account for the differences among the more than96510,000 election jurisdictions in the United States.966    Nearly every provision in this bill would sweep away967current effective systems of election administration across the968country without support or funding.969    As I bring my testimony to a close, elections are run by970people in and of the communities where they are taking place.971The needs of communities in Wyoming differ from those in972Michigan and North Carolina.973    Decentralized election administration is a feature, not a974bug, of our democratic system. In this regard, I agree with975you, Chairman Steil, when you stated at a hearing in this very976room in March 2023 that election administration looks different977in every State and that it is our Federalist approach in978action.979    I appreciate your longstanding opposition to un-American980calls to nationalize our elections, Mr. Chairman, and I presume981it continues.982    In closing, election officials have a simple request of983Congress: That you help share their burdens, not add to them.984The bill under discussion today does not meet that simple test.985    Thank you. I look forward to answering your questions.986    [The prepared statement of Ms. Brinson Bell follows:]987988            PREPARED STATEMENT OF KAREN BRINSON BELL989[[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]990991    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.992    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for the purpose of993asking questions. We will alternate sides.994    I would like to start with you, Secretary Gray, if I can.995We got a lot of information there from Ms. Brinson Bell, echoes996a lot of the comments I hear from my Democrats. We have got a997great empirical case study in the State of Wyoming, so maybe we998can learn a little bit about exactly what took place.999    We heard that implementing photo ID requires extensive1000training. I went and bought a six-pack of beer in Wisconsin the1001other day. The clerk, I do not think he had extensive training,1002but, boy, he was able to look at my ID, confirm my birth date,1003confirm it was me, and then was able to sell me a six-pack of1004beer.1005    Is it your experience in the State of Wyoming that folks in1006Wyoming need extensive training to implement photo1007identification?1008    Mr. Gray. Chairman Steil, thank you for that question.1009    My experience is that this is a common-sense requirement.1010In fact, as my testimony talked about, in the lead-up to us1011passing voter ID we would have a lot of Wyomingites that would1012show their ID and it was not required, and they were outraged.1013    Chairman Steil. Sure. Because you need a photo ID when1014you----1015    Mr. Gray. Yes.1016    The Chairman [continuing]. board an airplane, open a bank1017account----1018    Mr. Gray. Exactly.1019    The Chairman [continuing]. buy a six-pack of beer. There is1020no extensive training that is required when you implemented1021photo ID in Wyoming, correct?1022    Mr. Gray. No extensive training.1023    Chairman Steil. Then we heard hundreds of millions of1024dollars. There are some people in this building that could not1025spend enough money of taxpayer dollars to do all sorts of1026stuff.1027    I am thinking to myself, I would board an airplane, I would1028buy a six-pack of beer, I have to show my photo identification.1029For the 2024 DNC convention, you had to show your ID. There was1030a Senator just last week who held a town hall, required people1031to show their photo identification to come to his town hall.1032    Massive costs associated with photo identification in your1033experience in Wyoming?1034    Mr. Gray. No massive cost, Chairman Steil. In fact, we have1035a provision in our voter ID law that an individual can request1036an ID, have a hardship exemption if that is required.1037    Under Wyoming law right now, the requirements in the MEGA1038Act would impose no further costs because we already allow for1039attaining that ID on a hardship exemption for purposes of1040voting. There is no further costs.1041    Chairman Steil. Which makes total sense, right? If you1042truly have somebody that is indigent, does not have the funds1043to do it, the State should be able to provide that photo ID.1044Wisconsin does the same thing. There is no cost to administer1045the elections in this regard.1046    Wyoming implemented, one of the handful of States not in1047the NVRA, so many States are restricted and prevented from1048providing citizenship verification. Wyoming is in a unique1049position where you could actually implement citizenship1050verification, very different than maybe the State of Arizona,1051for example, that has tried to work through that.1052    Let us look at the experience that we have in the State of1053Wyoming. You implemented citizenship verification. We have1054heard from some of our colleagues that millions or thousands or1055hundreds of people would be disenfranchised.1056    What was the experience in the State of Wyoming after you1057had your election after you have implemented citizenship1058verification?1059    Mr. Gray. Well, thank you, Chairman Steil, for that1060question.1061    We had a very clean bond election last year under the1062documentary proof of citizenship requirement. It was very1063clean, no issues, no complaints. It was just very well-run.1064People were excited that we implemented this common-sense1065measure.1066    Chairman Steil. The fearmongering that we are hearing today1067did not materialize in the State of Wyoming from a cost1068standpoint, from a disenfranchisement standpoint. What you1069ended up with was a good, solid, clean election.1070    Do you think people's confidence in elections increased in1071the State of Wyoming as these common-sense procedures were1072implemented?1073    Mr. Gray. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman.1074    Chairman Steil. Do you think they should be implemented in1075all 50 States?1076    Mr. Gray. Absolutely. Yes. I believe it should be1077implemented in all 50 States.1078    Chairman Steil. I want to finalize on one item. You noted1079that in the State of Wyoming ballots need to be in by the end1080of election day, by the time polls close.1081    At the end of the 2024 election, I went to the State of1082California, was joined by a couple of my colleagues from1083California there. I went to Los Angeles County Central Count.1084You would see thousands of ballots coming in, literally by the1085truckload, after elections closed, because they allow ballots1086that are postmarked with a huge exception in that law to arrive1087after the election day. They are being counted.1088    You do not know California results for House races that1089were competitive. If there was a competitive statewide race, we1090would not probably have known results for that either.1091    When you delay those results, does that instill confidence,1092or does that hurt Americans' confidence in our elections?1093    Mr. Gray. It damages confidence, Mr. Chairman.1094    Chairman Steil. It 100 percent damages confidence.1095    You can envision going and playing a card game. Imagine--I1096am not a card player--but if you went to a casino and played1097cards and you are playing with the dealer and the very end of1098the game with that dealer, the dealer says, ``You know what, I1099am not going to flip over my cards for three or four days.''1100You could be playing with the Pope, and you would not have a1101lot of confidence in exactly what is taking place.1102    This is all about instilling confidence in our elections,1103that Americans have confidence. The Georgia election law, the1104laws and the reforms in the State of Wyoming prove that you can1105do this correctly, that you can increase confidence in our1106elections.1107    What Georgia has shown us is when you increase confidence1108in our elections, people will participate. It is why the State1109of Georgia's election participation remained high and it is why1110Wyoming is doing a good job as well.1111    I will yield back. I will now recognize the Ranking Member,1112Mr. Morelle, for 5 minutes for questions.1113    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1114    I do want to acknowledge I have complete faith in the Pope.1115If he told me something, I would believe it.1116    Last week, referring to the State of Minnesota, President1117Trump said--and this is a direct quote--``I won the State of1118Minnesota three times, but I got no credit for it.''1119    Congress three times certified Minnesota's electoral1120college votes, three times, including twice under House1121Republican majorities. Congress certified Donald Trump as the1122loser of the Presidential election in Minnesota.1123    Reminding the witnesses you are under oath, just a simple1124question. We can start from right to left.1125    Do you have evidence or reasonably if Congress incorrectly1126certified Minnesota's results due to widespread fraud in1127Minnesota?1128    Ms. Brinson Bell?1129    Ms. Brinson Bell. I have no reason to believe that Congress1130had--Congress rightfully certified the election.1131    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Nobile?1132    Mr. Nobile. I do not have any evidence.1133    Mr. Morelle. Ms. Bollin?1134    Ms. Bollin. I do not have any evidence either.1135    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Secretary?1136    Mr. Gray. I believe there were issues, I do.1137    Mr. Morelle. What does that mean? I asked if you think1138there was widespread----1139    Mr. Gray. I believe there were issues out there that need1140to be looked into. I think that from an election integrity1141perspective, to perceive that we are not going to even ask1142questions and the way that the modern day Democrat Party, when1143people ask questions, have mocked them, is very troubling to1144me.1145    Mr. Morelle. Well, I would just say this, sir. You are1146under oath. You are here as an expert witness. If you have1147evidence that there was fraud in Minnesota, I think we should1148be--the Committee Members would very much welcome it.1149    Otherwise, I assume--and, frankly, I think I do not1150appreciate your partisan remarks. I notice that you left out in1151your opening statement but it is in your written testimony, you1152referred to leftist goons when you are talking about people who1153bring cases in front of a court.1154    Let me move on. I would love to ask--Ms. Brinson Bell, I1155appreciate you being here, and I appreciate your past testimony1156around the work that you did in North Carolina and your1157comments regarding State and local officials. You have,1158obviously, a tremendous amount of experience.1159    This week Republicans are bringing the SAVE America Act to1160the floor, presumably--it is in committee, the Rules Committee1161later--a bill that imposes strict new documentary proof of1162citizenship requirements in order for American citizens to1163register to vote.1164    Like the bill we are discussing here, the SAVE America Act1165would be effective immediately. Many States, including North1166Carolina, and have primary elections literally in just a few1167weeks. I wonder if you could just comment.1168    Would States even have time to comply with such a massive1169change with Federal elections just around the corner?1170    Ms. Brinson Bell. Thank you, sir.1171    I would just propose to everyone that when we talk about1172immediate implementation of any type of change in election1173administration, that that is unworkable.1174    I point that out because Representative Bollin, she pointed1175out some wonderful pieces of legislation that we have1176implemented across our country effectively, NVRA, UOCAVA, so1177forth and so on. They all had runways. They all had funding.1178They all had training in ways that we were able to support the1179implementation.1180    That would be my note of caution. North Carolina is in the1181election. Ballots have already gone out. Early voting starts on1182Thursday.1183    Mr. Morelle. Yes.1184    Ms. Brinson Bell. The election is underway, and it will be1185for many other States very soon.1186    Mr. Morelle. Very good.1187    I keep hearing about American elections not being secure.1188You did this for a number of years. Are American elections1189secure? You talked about local and State. Just your opinion on1190whether American elections are secure.1191    Ms. Brinson Bell. Yes, sir. I believe that is--the security1192of our elections has been proven. I believe that is why1193Congress has been able to certify the elections, and our1194legislatures and our State boards and our Secretaries of State.1195    In North Carolina alone, we have conducted post-election1196audits since 2006, reconciliation practices that prove the1197security of our elections.1198    We have also had record-breaking turnout, as the citizens1199have known about the additional efforts that we have put in1200place in North Carolina.1201    I firmly believe that when someone believes that the system1202is secure, when they believe that a system works, that is when1203they participate.1204    That is why North Carolinians turned out over 75 percent in12052020.1206    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.1207    Just one last question, as I am running out of time.1208    The provision and the mail by voting elections alone would1209upend the way elections are conducted for nearly 70 million1210Americans.1211    How much does it cost to run a statewide election in North1212Carolina? Do you know?1213    Ms. Brinson Bell. A statewide election in North Carolina, a1214recent survey of the 2024 election, was $35 million.1215    Mr. Morelle. Just in North Carolina?1216    Ms. Brinson Bell. Just in North Carolina.1217    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.1218    Before I yield back, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent1219to enter into the record two pieces.1220    First of all, a statement in opposition to the bill from1221the League of Women Voters, a second from FairVote Action, as1222well as a letter from the National Association of Counties1223sharing concerns with the bill; and into the record a column by1224former the Maricopa County recorder, a Republican from Arizona,1225which makes clear that Republican claims about voter fraud are1226bogus.1227    Chairman Steil. Without objection.1228    [The information referred to follows:]1229    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]12301231    Mr. Morelle. With that, I yield back. Thank you.1232    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.1233    The gentlewoman from Florida, the vice chair of the1234Committee, Ms. Lee, is recognized for 5 minutes.1235    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this1236important hearing.1237    Thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today.1238    As Florida's former Secretary of State, promoting voter1239confidence and election security have been key priorities of1240mine since coming to Congress. The Committee's Make Elections1241Great Again Act includes a number of common-sense requirements,1242including photo ID and election day deadline for receiving1243ballots and list maintenance standards that a number of you1244have already touched upon.1245    These measures are proven effective, they promote security,1246and they do promote public confidence, all endeavors we should1247be pursuing in Congress.1248    Chairwoman Bollin, I would like to return to one of the1249concepts that you mentioned during your testimony, and it is1250this: The concept of critical infrastructure.1251    The Department of Homeland Security designated elections1252infrastructure as critical infrastructure, and as a consequence1253for a number of years now has been providing cybersecurity1254support to State and local elected officials. You touch on this1255concept as important both to election systems and equipment and1256also how you view the federalism concerns related to elections.1257    I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on those1258concepts.1259    Ms. Bollin. Yes. Thank you very much for the question.1260    I think it is extremely important. When we relegate these1261to the States, everybody wants confidence. I am really puzzled1262by the suggestion that there is not a lot of fraud. Why would1263we wait for fraud to occur to protect it?1264    These issues of security, security in the ballots, security1265in the database system, security in the actual machines that1266are tabulating, this was a requirement under the Help America1267Vote Act, as was the electronic qualified voter files. This is1268a great opportunity to see.1269    We know we have advanced so far. I mean, the good advances,1270as well as the cynical advances in the security issues, that it1271is time for a reset. We should be looking at it right now. The1272EAC is looking at guidelines, security guidelines, for our1273equipment. There are concerns about transmission.1274    We all want timely results. In order to get timely results,1275we also want them to be accurate. The systems in place that1276feed into that are extremely important--the accuracies test,1277the confidence, the transparency, and most importantly,1278accountability. If there is no accountability, then we will1279never have fair elections.1280    Ms. Lee. Mr. Nobile, going back to that concept, we heard1281testimony earlier about--the Chairman had great questions about1282the connection between timely election results reporting and1283voter confidence.1284    I would like to hear your perspective on that. Also, in1285your written testimony you go a step further and note that1286election ballot deadlines past election day, in your view, even1287violate Federal law. Tell us about that.1288    Mr. Nobile. Yes. It is not just us. The Court of Appeals1289for the Fifth Circuit said that. We have been litigating this1290for 5 years.1291    When Congress enacted the first election integrity1292provision in the history of Article II, it enacted election1293day. In all times election day ended on election day. In the1294last 15 years, there has been this activist effort to get State1295legislators to extend ballot receipt deadlines in a way that,1296frankly, makes elections disorderly and unreliable and1297suspicious, and it has radically reduced public trust in1298elections.1299    For the last 15 years, we have been suffering through 21300weeks of post-election uncertainty because people are not just1301getting their ballots in time--or returned in time.1302    Frankly, the denominator of ballots outstanding continues1303to increase, which, when people go to bed at night, they need1304to know how many ballots are outstanding, they need to know how1305many ballots are left to be counted. They do not need to wake1306up 3 days later and find out there is an additional 150,0001307ballots coming in.1308    It is just, frankly, radically undermining elections.1309    Ms. Lee. It is. I can tell you in Florida, third-largest1310State in the country, we know how to do this. We get our1311ballots in on election day. We have results by 9 o'clock. It1312can be done, and it absolutely improves voter confidence.1313    Let me also touch on this. There is a lot of discussion1314about citizenship in and around today's hearing. Would you1315elaborate on the other reasons--there are actually a multitude1316of reasons why somebody may need to be removed from voter1317registration rolls, everything from death to moving.1318    Would you elaborate for us on many of the reasons why1319somebody might need to be removed from a voter roll?1320    Mr. Nobile. Yes. You have got to have a clean and accurate1321voter registration list to keep fraud from happening, right?1322That is the whole reason why it was created in the 1800's.1323    Frankly, States, including North Carolina, are not1324complying with their NVRA obligations. We sued them 4 years1325ago. We are currently suing California, Oregon, and Illinois.1326    People need to know that the way you commit fraud and1327undermine an election is you have a dirty voter registration1328list. That is step one.1329    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Nobile.1330    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.1331    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.1332    Ms. Sewell is recognized for 5 minutes.1333    Ms. Sewell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1334    My questions are for you, Secretary Gray.1335    Mr. Gray. Yes.1336    Ms. Sewell. I have read with great interest about your1337Election Integrity Agenda, especially the proof of citizenship1338law that was passed by the Wyoming State Legislature. You must1339have had rampant voter fraud to make it necessary to pass such1340restrictive laws.1341    My question to you is, what is the number of voter election1342fraud cases in your State of Wyoming over the, say, last 201343years?1344    Mr. Gray. Well, Congresswoman Sewell, it is sort of a1345circular question. I have seen this a lot from----1346    Ms. Sewell. No, I am going to reclaim my time since I have1347very limited time.1348    I am going to let you know that it is only one, only one1349case. This is not data from some far left think tank. This is1350data collected from the Heritage Foundation.1351    Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous consent to1352enter into the record this report by the Heritage Foundation1353that shows that the State of Wyoming has only had one case of1354voter fraud.1355    Chairman Steil. Without objection.1356    [The report referred to follows:]1357    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]13581359    Ms. Sewell. Secretary Gray, as I am sure you know,1360President Trump has recently called for the Federal Government1361to, quote, ``take over elections.''1362    You are a State elected official. What branch of Government1363has the legal right to administer elections? Does the President1364of the United States have the authority to administer and1365nationalize elections?1366    Mr. Gray. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congresswoman.1367    First, I would like to State that I disagree with your1368previous assertion about only one example.1369    Ms. Sewell. Well, the evidence----1370    Mr. Gray. I would also----1371    Ms. Sewell. Sir, with all due respect, this is my time.1372    Mr. Gray. Thank you.1373    Ms. Sewell. The evidence speaks for itself. The fact of the1374matter is, is that it seems to me that we are solving for a1375problem--we are offering a solution for a problem that does not1376exist, is what I am saying.1377    I could answer the question also as to who is in charge of1378administering elections. Neither the President nor Congress has1379the right to run elections.1380    Article I, section 4, clause 1 of the Constitution is very1381clear: The time, place, and manner of holding elections shall1382be prescribed in each State by the legislature thereof.1383    Now, Congress can alter the regulation of elections.1384However, the President has no legal authority to decide which1385ballots are counted, and he certainly cannot administer1386elections himself.1387    Mr. Chairman, I must say, voting rights used to be wildly1388bipartisan, and lately it has been so partisan. This Committee1389should not be involved in the President's scheme to rig this1390year's midterm election and this disinformation campaign to1391legitimize lies and myths about rampant voter fraud by1392noncitizens where we already have laws on the books that say1393that noncitizens, it is illegal for them to vote.1394    Mr. Gray, on January 22, 2026, Secretary Gray, just a1395couple weeks ago, you put out a press release in your official1396capacity as Wyoming Secretary of State that announced your top1397five election integrity priorities, which included eliminating1398Medicare, Medicaid, and student IDs as acceptable forms of1399identification for voting. This provision is also in the MEGA1400bill as well.1401    What is the problem with using student IDs or IDs, like1402Federal IDs, like Medicare, Medicaid, and why do we find them1403so objectionable?1404    Mr. Gray. Mr. Chairman, Congresswoman, the issue with many1405of these IDs is that they do not have photos on them. That is1406one of the issues. How do you have----1407    Ms. Sewell. Sir, with all due respect----1408    Mr. Gray [continuing]. how do you have----1409    Ms. Sewell [continuing]. with all due respect, with all due1410respect, we have already established that voter fraud in your1411State is basically nonexistent. There cannot be any reason for1412restricting the types of IDs more frequently used by low-income1413and elderly Americans.1414    The real reason suggests to me that you are picking the1415voters who can actually vote and eliminating students or making1416it harder for students who have reached the age of 18 to vote,1417to me sounds very discriminatory.1418    Ms. Bollin, I ask you the same question I asked Secretary1419Gray. Do you know the number of reported cases of election1420fraud in the State of Michigan over the last 20 years? I can1421tell you, since my time is running out. It is 19 cases, 19 out1422of 64,520,000 ballots cast. That is a rate of 0.0002 percent of1423fraud.1424    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the1425record the Heritage Foundation's election fraud map that shows1426this point.1427    Chairman Steil. Without objection.1428    [The election fraud map follows:]1429    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]14301431    Ms. Sewell. Nobody should be fooled by what is going on1432here today. The only thing mega about this bill is that it is1433mega voter suppression. The rate of voter fraud is almost1434nonexistent relative to the number of ballots cast in each1435election.1436    The Republicans' voter suppression agenda is simply1437designed to appease Trump and to set the stage for a takeover1438and nationalization of elections.1439    The Trump agenda is rooted in anti-immigrant conspiracy1440theories aimed to disenfranchising young people, women, the1441elderly, people of color.1442    One in three eligible voters in America do not participate1443in our elections for a host of reasons, and 25 percent of1444eligible voters in America are not even registered.1445    Instead of conducting this charade, I would prefer the time1446of this Committee to be used trying to make sure that all1447Americans--all Americans--have the right to access the ballot1448box and to vote.1449    With that, sir, I yield back the balance of my time.1450    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.1451    The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Loudermilk, is recognized1452for 5 minutes.1453    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1454    I am the longest-serving Member on this Committee, and I1455think it is rich that the other side of the dais up here is1456talking about a Federal takeover of elections when I sat in1457this Committee just a few years ago with a bill called H.R. 11458that Speaker Nancy Pelosi pushed forward.1459    It was a 600-page bill that was a total Federal1460unconstitutional takeover of elections. It included provisions1461that were not just challenging to impose on the States, but1462impossible to impose on the States.1463    When we are discussing a way of making our election systems1464with more integrity, I find it disingenuous to hear that this1465is a Federal takeover by those that have authored one of the1466greatest and most exclusive Federal takeover election bills1467ever.1468    From the looks of folks at the table and in the audience, I1469think you all remember H.R. 1. It also included the Federal1470Government helping pay for campaigns.1471    It was quite an interesting time that we are here. I just1472find it is even that much more interesting now that the folks1473who authored the greatest Federal takeover of elections are1474complaining about wanting somebody to prove their citizenship1475before they vote.1476    With that, Secretary Gray, there have been a lot of critics1477of election security efforts in general who claim Congress is1478requiring States to engage in expensive changes to their1479election system.1480    Have you experienced that it was very expensive for the1481State of Wyoming to implement its requirement for documenting1482proof of United States citizenship for registering to vote?1483    Mr. Gray. Congressman, Mr. Chairman, it was seamless, low1484cost, no cost, and I have not seen any costs yet other than1485revising training materials. It has just been a seamless1486approach in implementing these Federal statutes.1487    Mr. Loudermilk. What about the provisions within this bill?1488Do you anticipate that that would create a lot of expense, to1489implement what is in here in the State of Wyoming?1490    Mr. Gray. Thank you, Mr. Chairman--Congressman.1491    Not anticipating really any expense.1492    The Federal Government has a role to play in setting these1493baseline standards. I mean, countering a little bit the1494testimony from a Democratic Congresswoman previously, I mean,1495if you look at NVRA, HAVA, the Civil Rights Act, these are all1496bills that were supported by the Democrat Party that set1497baseline standards for elections. That is what the MEGA Act and1498the SAVE Act is doing.1499    It is really incredible, some of these claims that are1500being--that are being made by the Democrat Party.1501    Mr. Loudermilk. Well, I appreciate that.1502    You know, it seems like we have entered into an era of1503politics to where it really does not matter what the core1504principles are as long as you can hang your political opponent1505with it. That is all that really matters these days.1506    One last question for you. Would having a uniform procedure1507such as in this bill and security standards make it less1508expensive for States to run Federal elections?1509    Mr. Gray. Mr. Chairman--Congressman, I think having a1510uniform standard really clarifies things. I think it is going1511to be very low cost or no cost. I mean, really, it is just1512revising training materials. That is the big--that is it. There1513is really no cost attached to that.1514    Mr. Loudermilk. Well, thank you for that.1515    Representative Bollin, real quickly in the remainder of my1516time, thank you for being here. When I was a State1517representative, I had the opportunity to come and speak before1518Congress, and so we appreciate your time.1519    The Department of Justice recently asked for Michigan to1520turn over portions of their centralized voter list in order to1521verify whether or not Michigan is compliant with the voter list1522maintenance procedures required by the National Voter1523Registration Act.1524    In response, Secretary Benson wrote, ``The law does not1525support this assertion. The collection, use, and dissemination1526of private information should be for a necessary and lawful1527purpose.''1528    My question is, is protecting the integrity of voter rolls1529a necessary and lawful purpose, in your opinion?1530    Ms. Bollin. Well, protecting the voter rolls--I would say,1531protecting elections and the voters is more important.1532    We do know that our Secretary of State has a history of1533making up her own laws. While she is the Secretary of State,1534she is not a legislator, and I think that that is a reminder of1535that.1536    I would say that we need to make sure that we are not1537making these dictates. There have been these interpretations by1538Benson, inclusive of Benson, over the years that really1539aggravated the situation, and, I would say, it led to a lot of1540the disruption in the 2020 election.1541    Our Secretary of State has really--we had to subpoena her1542by our Oversight Committee--continues to refuse practical1543things--a manual for election administrators--under the guise1544that it is to protect the voters. No, I think we all need to1545know and understand the standards of training for our election1546workers.1547    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you for your time.1548    I yield back.1549    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.1550    The Representative from California, Mrs. Torres, is1551recognized for 5 minutes.1552    Mrs. Torres. Thank you, Chairman.1553    Welcome, to our witnesses.1554    It is shocking. What is happening in our country is not1555normal. This administration seems hell-bent on blocking certain1556voters from casting their ballot, changing the rules of1557elections so outrageously to purposely block millions of1558Americans who have been demonstrating against Republican1559policies.1560    President Trump said he wants to Federalize elections, and1561we need to ask, what does that actually mean? Are we talking1562about military, with machine guns, at our local school election1563stations? Or masked, untrained, heavily armed ICE agents1564surrounding our community centers? What are we talking about1565here?1566    The FBI just raided a local election office, with the1567Director of National Intelligence tagging along like an1568obedient dog, allegedly in pursuit of a fever-dream conspiracy1569theory about the 2020 elections that no sane person believes.1570    Reportedly, the administration forced out the FBI special1571agent in charge when he questioned this investigation, and1572after his removal, the head of national intelligence put the1573local FBI field agents on a direct call with the President.1574    I have been told that Fulton County now has no way--no1575way--to verify if the FBI or anyone else has altered any of1576those ballots.1577    The Republican election bills being considered are a direct1578attack on dissent of current Republican policies on married1579women, women who build careers, led companies, serve in1580Congress, and, yes, women like me who got married and changed1581their names; on young voters and seniors who cannot afford to1582purchase a passport.1583    Instead of focusing on affordable childcare and quality1584maternal health, these bills will make tens of thousands of1585American women struggle, needlessly, to vote.1586    This is about control. It is about silencing people who do1587not agree with Republican policies and about blocking women1588from the ballot. We will not be silenced.1589    Chairman Steil, I truly enjoyed touring my local election1590office with you just 2 years ago and was delighted with your1591statement that ``it was an amazing experience to walk through1592L.A. Central Count,'' which counted more ballots than 38 States1593in the 2024 general election.1594    I ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record1595testimony from my local L.A. County elections official.1596    Chairman Steil. Without objection.1597    Mrs. Torres. Thank you.1598    [The election official testimony follows:]1599    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]16001601    Mrs. Torres. I had doubts about--you had doubts about1602California elections and went to the source, and I admired you1603for that.1604    To address those very doubts, you brought Fox News, held a1605press briefing, but refused to allow Democrats to join. Why?1606Maybe because you found nothing out of order. You saw, instead,1607hardworking public servants working under the eye of streaming1608video cameras available for anyone in Los Angeles County or1609across the county----1610    Chairman Steil. Will the gentlewoman yield?1611    Mrs. Torres [continuing]. to view.1612    We are looking for legislation to fix a problem you failed1613to find. Not a single Committee Republican or political1614observer contested the outcome of any House race in 2024 or1615provided any evidence that California suffered from fraud1616irregularities.1617    Why is that? Because California's election infrastructure1618is sound. We invest in secure systems, rigorous training, and1619transparency at every level. California has worked hard to1620ensure that every eligible American voter can cast their1621ballot.1622    Yes, election day ends at 8 p.m. on election day. As1623frustrating as it may be to make sure that every vote is1624counted, our fantastic State and local election workers make1625sure that it happens, in a secure and transparent way.1626    Let us be honest: Actions taken to turn our entire election1627system upside-down have one goal. Instead, this is the effort1628that is similar like Pizzagate 2.0, where an ill-informed1629citizen drove across the country to find sexually abused1630children. ``Look other there!'' Meanwhile, we keep the Epstein1631files secret.1632    I yield back.1633    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.1634    The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Griffith, is recognized1635for 5 minutes.1636    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1637    I agree with my colleagues; all American citizens should1638have the right to vote. I do, however, disagree that the desire1639to have all Americans being able to vote has been bipartisan in1640the past.1641    Having been a child during the Jim Crow era, I can assure1642you that the Make Elections Great Again bill is not Jim Crow.1643Let us talk about Jim Crow in Virginia.1644    In 1902, the Virginia Constitution was rewritten by1645Democrats. They did not take it to the people to vote on it;1646they just did it, assembled in Richmond. The concept was,1647everybody will recall, to disenfranchise African-Americans.1648    What people do not recall is, it was also to disenfranchise1649poor, White, Republican voters in the western part of the1650State, the very part of the State that I now have the great1651pleasure and proud to represent. It was done to take them out1652of the voting rolls, too. Because the Republican populist1653coalition was challenging the dominant Democrats in the State,1654and the Democrat Party did that, led by E. Carter Glass of1655Lynchburg, Virginia.1656    It would take some time to break that coalition up, and you1657know what it was, Mr. Chairman? It was the Federal Government1658interfering, according to all the Democrat politicians of the1659time, interfering in the States and telling them you cannot1660continue to run your elections with poll taxes; with complex,1661subjective registration processes; and having, quote/unquote,1662an ``understanding clause,'' making sure that people understood1663what was going on in the election, that broke that up in the1664mid-1960's.1665    Guess what followed that? The election of the first1666Republican Governor since Reconstruction in 1969.1667    I participated in that election, not as a voter but as1668somebody working out there in the hustings. Yes, I was a weird1669kid. I remember the debate between the Mountain Valley1670Republicans and the Democrats who controlled everything and who1671did not want Blacks and poor Whites from the western part of1672the State actively participating.1673    I assure you, Mr. Chairman, your bill is not Jim Crow.1674    I have to tell you, it was an interesting time to live in,1675and I am glad it has passed. What we want to do is to make sure1676American citizens can vote.1677    Mr. Nobile, from your experience as an attorney, do you1678believe that our current penalties for election fraud1679sufficiently deter bad actors?1680    Mr. Nobile. No.1681    You know, fraud has been going on for 200 years in American1682elections. I submitted in my record two written books, one by1683the former Chairman of this Committee that documented countless1684frauds in the 19th century, another book that documented1685countless frauds in the 20th century.1686    When you look at fraud, you cannot look at it in the terms1687of last week or last year or 2 years. I mean, it is a1688competition; people are cheating.1689    Mr. Griffith. Yes. You are saying we should enhance the1690law?1691    Mr. Nobile. Yes.1692    Mr. Griffith. You think that the Make Elections Great Again1693will help us do that?1694    Mr. Nobile. Yes.1695    Mr. Griffith. I do too.1696    Mr. Nobile, in your experience, what have been some of your1697concerns raised with the practice of allowing third-party1698operatives to collect and submit ballots to polling centers--1699i.e., ballot harvesting?1700    Mr. Nobile. Well, that is why we invented the Australian1701ballot, so people would not be harassed and so they would not1702monitor people's votes. People could go in and vote privately1703in a secure location where they would not be harassed.1704    This sort of advent of all-mail balloting and ballot-1705chasing programs or ballot-harvesting programs basically return1706us to the bad days of old, in the 19th century, where poor1707Whites and the few minorities that were allowed to vote were1708chased and harassed so they could watch their votes.1709    We invented the Australian ballot so people would stop1710getting paid to vote, right? That brought a lot of the1711protections we enjoy right now----1712    Mr. Griffith. In my district, that was not just paying them1713with cash. Sometimes it would be a bottle of whiskey.1714    Mr. Nobile. Or a club against the head.1715    Mr. Griffith. Yes. Yep.1716    You believe the Make Elections Great Again Act will1717prohibit ballot harvesting nationwide?1718    Mr. Nobile. Yes, it will be a great improvement.1719    Mr. Griffith. Do you think that makes our system cleaner1720and more open for American citizens, including African-1721Americans and poor Whites in the mountains of Virginia?1722    Mr. Nobile. Yes. People should be allowed to vote in secure1723locations away from all the harassment that they might get at1724home.1725    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield1726back.1727    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.1728    The Representative from Texas, Ms. Johnson, is recognized1729for 5 minutes.1730    Ms. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1731    You know, our Constitution envisions a Nation united by the1732belief that every citizen has the right to participate in our1733democracy and elect the leaders who govern us, no matter our1734differences. We must respect the fundamental constitutional1735right of every citizen to cast a ballot.1736    That is every citizen that may not have a birth1737certificate. That is every citizen that may not have a1738passport. That is every married woman that has changed their1739name. That is every citizen that lives in a large county where1740their election office is not open past 4 o'clock, and they work1741all day, to go register. That is every citizen.1742    The problem with this bill is, you put all of these1743administrative hurdles in place to keep citizens from voting,1744to keep citizens from being able to register to vote.1745    We have counties where you have one county office in a1746rural county of 300 miles. When you are working all day, how1747are you possibly going to go over there in person and provide1748all of this documentation?1749    In Dallas, Texas, we have 4 million people--1 election1750office where you can go to register to vote in person between 91751and 4. When you are a teacher, when you are working a shift,1752how the hell are you going to get there to do this in person?1753    When you were born at home and you do not have access to1754your birth certificate and those records do not exist anymore,1755you are a United States citizen, and you are not going to be1756allowed to vote.1757    When you do not have a $150 and you cannot wait 6 months to1758get a passport, then you do not get to vote. You are an1759American citizen, and your country and your Government is1760denying you the right to vote under this bill.1761    It is un-American, it is unconstitutional, and it is dead-1762ass wrong.1763    Because the problem is, there are a lot of things that we1764can do to ensure election integrity. If we really are concerned1765about people having the right to vote, why cannot we submit1766documents online? Why cannot you register online and submit a1767copy of whatever documentation you have? Why----1768    Voice.1769    [Off-mike.]1770    Ms. Johnson. Not under this, you cannot, no, ma'am. You1771have to do this in person.1772    If we are really committed to making sure that people have1773the right to vote, then we need to open this up; we need to1774have an online national registration to vote. Why not? No, you1775have to do this.1776    Then the other thing is, I am really, really just1777personally very troubled, Mr. Chairman, over this notion of1778women having to submit an affidavit at the poll. Does this mean1779that we are going to have notary publics at every polling site?1780Does this mean--what does this mean? That if your married name1781does not match your birth certificate, then you have to sign an1782affidavit. Well, how does one do that?1783    You know, as a lawyer, when you sign an affidavit, it is1784under oath, sworn to by a notary public. Does this mean now1785that we are going to make and require every election judge1786administrator and all of the millions of election sites across1787this country be notaries?1788    Are we going to make people pay--most notaries charge. Are1789we going to make people pay $10 or $15 to go get their1790affidavit signed to bring to the poll? That is a poll tax. That1791is not OK. That is unconstitutional.1792    Passports cost $150. Are we going to require people to pay1793$150 to get a passport now to be able to vote, or are we going1794to waive that fee if you want to get a passport to vote so that1795you do not have an unethical, illegal poll tax?1796    There is a lot wrong with this bill, Mr. Chairman, because1797you are putting so many roadblocks, so many obstacles in place1798that do not protect security, but what it is is denying1799citizens their constitutional right to vote, which should be1800our number-one, paramount concern of this Committee, is, how do1801we make sure that we do not disenfranchise millions of voters1802in this country? This bill does just that.1803    Ms. Bell, what would it be like if election judges across1804this country all of a sudden had to be arbitrators of whether1805or not a person is a U.S. citizen and that they have to, sort1806of, now interpret documents? What does that look like in the1807administration of our elections?1808    Ms. Brinson Bell. Well, in implementing it in North1809Carolina--and I appreciate that it may not have been as much of1810a lift in Wyoming, but that is one of the things that I think1811is coming out from this hearing, is that there are differences1812in administering elections. We had to go through extensive1813training to train the 25,000 workers in North Carolina's1814polling places----1815    Ms. Johnson. Right. That is 25,000 just in North Carolina.1816Imagine----1817    Ms. Brinson Bell. Just in North Carolina.1818    Ms. Johnson [continuing]. the State of Texas.1819    Ms. Brinson Bell. Yes. That does not include the day-to-day1820workers in the 100 county offices.1821    Ms. Johnson. Right.1822    Ms. Brinson Bell. So----1823    Ms. Johnson. Unfortunately, I am out of time. We really1824need more time on issues like this, because this is a1825significant bill.1826    I yield back.1827    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.1828    The Representative from Oklahoma, Mrs. Bice, is recognized1829for 5 minutes.1830    Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1831    Thank you for our witnesses being here today.1832    First, I want to address Ms. Brinson Bell.1833    In your testimony, you mentioned that there was no funding1834tied to this legislation. I think it is important to clarify1835that this Committee is an authorizing committee; we are not an1836appropriations committee.1837    As someone that sits on both an authorizing committee and1838an appropriations committee, I am glad that there is no funding1839in here, because that should be an authorization--or, an1840Appropriations Committee jurisdiction. As someone who sits on1841that Committee, I am committed to finding ways to help continue1842to provide funding, and I have legislation I am currently1843working on to do that very thing.1844    You know, we have heard my Democrat colleagues talk about1845the--that Republicans want to Federalize elections. I think it1846is important to remind my colleagues of a bill that was put1847forward in 2021, the For the People Act.1848    I want to read a couple of things that the For the People1849Act did that I think would be interesting to those that are1850listening to this hearing today: Automatic voter registration,1851same-day registration, a ban on voter purges in rolls. It1852sounds to me like this is Federal regulation of elections.1853    My colleagues, including the Ranking Member and the two1854Members sitting next to him, voted ``aye'' on this legislation.1855I think it is disingenuous to say that Republicans are looking1856at Federalizing elections when my colleagues on the other side1857of the aisle were very much in favor of doing something on1858election integrity back in 2021.1859    Ms. Bollin, I want to start with you.1860    The Department of Justice asked for Michigan to turn over1861portions of their centralized voter list in order to verify1862whether or not Michigan was compliant with voter list1863maintenance rules.1864    In response, Secretary Jocelyn Benson, who has testified in1865front of this Committee, wrote, ``The law does not support this1866assertion. The collection, use, and dissemination of private1867information should be for necessary and lawful purposes.''1868    Ms. Bollin, is protecting the integrity of voter rolls a1869necessary and lawful purpose?1870    Ms. Bollin. Protecting the voter rolls--I think protecting1871the voters is. Protecting the voter rolls under the definition1872by Benson is absolutely not protecting it at all.1873    Mrs. Bice. In a recent----1874    Ms. Bollin. It should be turned over.1875    Mrs. Bice. In a recent video, Secretary Benson says,1876``States can and must hold the line,'' in defiance of the DOJ's1877attempt to enforce Federal election law.1878    Do you believe Michigan should defy the Department's1879efforts to instill integrity in Michigan's voter laws?1880    Ms. Bollin. Absolutely not.1881    Mrs. Bice. Mr. Nobile, I would like to throw this over to1882you. Can you talk a little bit about what is happening in1883Michigan and why you think it is so important for to us make1884sure that these voter integrity laws are held.1885    Mr. Nobile. Yes. I mean, the Department of Justice's1886ability to get those records for, frankly, 30 years has been1887unquestioned, right? I mean, when we enforce it at DOJ, the DOJ1888gets it. It is Section 8(i) of the NVRA.1889    You know, Michigan has, you know, inaccurate voter1890registration lists. There are certain quirks about Michigan1891that makes it difficult to enforce it there that I cannot go1892through here, but they have very outdated lists. It is one of1893several States that do all over the country.1894    I mean, you know, I talked in my testimony about California1895and other places, so I will not go through that here. I mean,1896you know, 21 counties in California removed 11 voters for1897change of address. I mean, that is not even--it is tough to1898even take that seriously.1899    You can extrapolate from that onto Michigan, which is even1900more defiant than California sometimes. You know, its rolls are1901very inaccurate, I suspect.1902    Mrs. Bice. I think, on that note, when I first got to1903Congress--I come from the State of Oklahoma, where we have very1904stringent voter ID laws which were passed by the citizens of1905Oklahoma back in the 1990's. We also have very district mail-in1906ballot laws. We are required to have it notarized.1907    In my State in 2020, a lawsuit was filed to actually throw1908out that notary requirement. Fortunately, as a former1909legislator, I was part of the process by which we were actually1910able to confirm that you had to have some sort of photo ID1911along with the ballot.1912    This universal mail-in ballot sort of initiative that we1913have seen in some States is rife with fraud.1914    When I got to Congress, I had no idea what ``curing a1915ballot'' meant. I had never seen a ballot box until I got to1916Washington, D.C. These are ways that we are using the system1917for fraud, and I hope that we will address some of these1918concerns in this legislation and legislation moving forward.1919    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield the balance of my time.1920    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.1921    The Representative from Ohio, Mr. Carey, is recognized for19225 minutes.1923    Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1924    I might be biased, but, under the leadership of Secretary1925LaRose, Ohio runs its elections better than any other State in1926the country. Our State's comprehensive approach prevents fraud,1927minimizes costs, and upholds the legitimacy of our elections.1928    By embracing new technologies, rigorous oversight, and1929common-sense policies, Ohio, in fact, has set itself apart. For1930example, in our State, we have implemented basic requirements1931to prove you are a U.S. citizen, a resident of the State, of1932legal voting age, and more.1933    We have shown we can have transparent and trustworthy1934elections and deliver those results quickly. I think our1935process, honestly, can be the model nationwide, and I invite my1936colleagues on both sides of the aisle to embrace our approach1937in the Buckeye State.1938    While I could go on and on about Ohio--and if you come to1939my office, I probably will--I want to highlight some of the1940winning policies.1941    I am going to go to you quickly, Mr. Gray. You have1942championed the Wyoming voter ID requirements, as highlighted1943before. I am going to ask you--and I understand your1944legislative process is a lot different--what were some of the1945hurdles that you faced while you were trying to implement that1946law?1947    Say it rather quickly, because I have a bunch of questions.1948    Mr. Gray. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman--Congressman.1949    I think one of the challenges is debunking a lot of the1950sort of straw-man arguments that get put out there. We are1951seeing that on proof of citizenship for registering to vote and1952these other election integrity reforms. It took us 4 years to1953get that through, but eventually I think people saw the light.1954    I think the 2020 election brought out a lot of these1955deficiencies that States have in their codes. One of them was1956that we did not have a voter ID law. We needed to get that1957done, and we got it done in 2021.1958    Mr. Carey. Your legislative process, what, does it meet1959once every 2 years? Or how does that work in Wyoming?1960    Mr. Gray. Yes, it is once every year. General session in1961the odd years, budget session in the even years.1962    Mr. Carey. I did learn something from your testimony, as an1963Ohioan. I did not realized you were referred to as1964``Wyomingites''----1965    Mr. Gray. Yes.1966    Mr. Carey [continuing]. so that is one thing I did learn.1967    Mr. Nobile, Judicial Watch has filed lawsuits to compel1968voter list maintenance, including the removal of eligible1969voters.1970    Under our bill, the Make Elections Great Again, or H.R.19717300--which I am an original co-sponsor--updates voter list1972maintenance requirements nationwide, including by allowing1973removal if a registrant is discovered to be a non-citizen.1974    How does this change-of-address issue--have you seen or1975argued about in court?1976    Mr. Nobile. Thank you for the question.1977    The current NVRA has very limited removal options. We can1978do it for change of address, death, and a few others, but those1979are the two big ones. There have been restrictions on the1980ability to remove people directly for citizenship. If you1981recall, in 2024, before the election, there was a big debate1982that the Supreme Court resolved in Virginia right before1983election day.1984    You know, the MEGA Act takes list maintenance from a1985periodic, you know, reasonable-effort requirement to a more1986specific requirement. It is, frankly, not all that different1987than what the Congress did in response to the UOCAVA Act in19882009, if you recall. 2008, military votes needed to go out1989within a reasonable time, and there were a lot of problems that1990happened in the 2008 election. Then in 2009, in response to1991those problems, Congress set a hard deadline for UOCAVA ballots1992to go out in the MOVE Act.1993    With this amendment that is being proposed for the MEGA1994Act, you make those changes.1995    Mr. Carey. Well, then, I have more questions, but, bottom1996line, it is beneficial to have a uniform, baseline standard for1997voter list maintenance requirements.1998    I would like to point out a couple things, because with all1999the pomp and circumstance and all of the things my dear2000colleagues have said, I went ahead and--I do read The New York2001Times. Some on our side do. I just wanted to read a quote from2002there.2003    As we, as legislators, discuss, Article 1, section 4--this2004is coming from The New York Times, so it is, you know, pretty2005factual, according to my colleagues. Article 1, section 4 of2006the Constitution states that States set the time and places and2007manner of elections. It also grants Congress the power to make2008laws about elections.2009    That is what we are talking about today, folks. That is all2010we are talking about.2011    To my dear colleagues, some of the other things that I2012have--and give me just one more second. Some of the letters2013that have been put in for the record against this legislation--2014all I ask, the old phrase, ``Judge them not by their words but2015by their deeds.'' Look at the funding of a lot of the groups2016that are saying to not support this legislation.2017    With that, I am happy to be an original co-sponsor, and,2018Mr. Chairman, I yield back.2019    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.2020    The Representative from Illinois, Mrs. Miller, is2021recognized for 5 minutes.2022    Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairman, for holding this hearing2023today.2024    Thank you to our witnesses for being here.2025    House Republicans are leading the charge to restore faith2026and trust in our elections. Election integrity should be a2027nonpartisan issue, but, sadly, House Democrats have made it2028clear they have no interest in restoring confidence and2029ensuring security in our elections.2030    As ABC noted this past weekend, 83 percent of adults2031support requiring a photo ID to vote, as do 73 percent of2032Democrat voters. Yet Democrat-elected officials oppose voter ID2033at every turn, and 14 blue-leaning States, including Illinois,2034have refused to implement this common-sense measure.2035    The House will be voting on an expanded version of the SAVE2036Act this week, and House Administration Republicans, led by2037Chairman Steil, have introduced the MEGA Act, which builds on2038the SAVE Act, with additional critical reforms.2039    Mr. Nobile, first, I want to acknowledge and thank you and2040my Illinois colleague, Congressman Mike Bost, for fighting to2041secure the right of candidates to challenge State election laws2042in Federal Government. As you know, Illinois insists on the2043controversial practice of counting ballots received after2044election day, and I am glad that Congressman Bost's challenge2045to that policy is moving forward on its merits.2046    In regards to a related case, how does Watson v. RNC,2047currently before the Supreme Court, affect congressional2048efforts to ensure that ballots are received no later than2049election day?2050    Mr. Nobile. You know, there has been some, I guess--the2051Supreme Court will settle the issue under current law if we2052prevail. Congress can obviously make new law and be more2053explicit in what it requires if it acts now.2054    This question, which arose in Bost first and now is in2055Watson, is, what is the original public meaning of the 18452056statutes as to, what is election day?2057    Mrs. Miller. Well, we are going to look forward to that.2058    When it comes to voter roll maintenance, how do we ensure2059that States comply with the requirements set by the MEGA Act2060when many are already non-compliant with the current NVRA2061statutes?2062    Mr. Nobile. Well, I think forced disclosures, which we try2063to do at Judicial Watch, and then, frankly, just follow up with2064suits. I mean, we are--there is fertile ground and opportunity2065for us to sue over. Frankly, we should not have to come to2066that, but obviously lawsuits help.2067    You know, when we find a jurisdiction in violation, it is2068usually not a close case. I mean, they are not sending out2069confirmation notices, they are not removing people.2070    Mrs. Miller. Uh-huh.2071    Mr. Nobile. It is pretty slam-dunk. You know, the2072partisanship nature of the question makes it very difficult to2073get anyone to just settle and resolve the questions.2074    Mrs. Miller. Representative Bollin, what steps would you2075like Congress to take to ensure that States like Michigan and2076Illinois are fulfilling their responsibilities under Federal2077law to maintain clean and accurate voter rolls?2078    Ms. Bollin. One is, I do we need to establish--kind of2079reset these universal base standards, No. 1.2080    No. 2 is, I do think that the post-election audits would2081help in this regard, the list maintenance. I think that we2082should be working in concert with the Michigan legislature, at2083the Federal level as well, to make sure that these records are2084turned over.2085    The responsibility--you know, in Michigan, we have very2086decentralized elections, and while the Secretary of State wants2087to take over much of this, we do need partners in this. I do2088think that that is what this Act can do, is, again, relegate2089the authority back to our locals and have the assurance.2090    If there is funding, I think the funding should be tied to2091compliance.2092    Mrs. Miller. Uh-huh.2093    Ms. Bollin. Unfortunately--I mean, I know we do not want to2094tie fundings, but, as the Chair of Appropriations, especially2095in split Government, these are common-sense reforms; these are2096not partisan reforms. We should all be on board trying to allow2097people to vote. How does that happen? That is accurate voter2098rolls and verification.2099    Mrs. Miller. Well, that is what the American people want.2100    I want to thank you all for the great and courageous work2101that you are doing. Keep it up.2102    Thank you, and I yield back.2103    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.2104    This concludes our questions for today's hearing.2105    I want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing today2106and your willingness to testify.2107    Members of the Committee may have some additional questions2108for you, and we ask that you respond to those in writing.2109    Without objection, each Member will have 5 legislative days2110to insert additional material into the record or to revise and2111extend their remarks.2112    [J. Kenneth Blackwell testimony follows:]2113    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]21142115    Chairman Steil. There being no further business, I want to2116thank our Members for their participation, and, without2117objection, the Committee stands adjourned.2118    [Whereupon, at 11:53 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]21192120                          [all]