S.Hrg.119-53

1[Senate Hearing 119-53]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                         S. Hrg. 119-5356                HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS78=======================================================================910                                HEARING1112                               BEFORE THE1314                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS15                          UNITED STATES SENATE1617                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                             FIRST SESSION2021                               __________2223                             APRIL 1, 20252425                               __________2627       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs2829[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3031        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov3233                                __________3435                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE3660-056 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20253738-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------3940                 SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS4142                     Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman43John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,44Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member45Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington46Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont47Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii48Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New49Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire50Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine51Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois52                                     Ruben Gallego, Arizona53                                     Elissa Slotkin, Michigan5455                     David Shearman, Staff Director56                Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director5758                           C O N T E N T S5960                              ----------6162                             April 1, 20256364                                SENATORS6566                                                                   Page67Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     168Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from69  Connecticut....................................................     270Hon. Bill Cassidy, U.S. Senator from Louisiana...................    1571Hon. Patty Murray, U.S. Senator from Washington..................    1772Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............    1973Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    2174Hon. Dan Sullivan, U.S. Senator from Alaska......................    2375Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    2576Hon. Mazie K. Hirono, U.S. Senator from Hawaii...................    2677Hon. Ruben Gallego, U.S. Senator from Arizona....................    2978Hon. Jim Banks, U.S. Senator from Indiana........................    3379Hon. Elissa Slotkin, U.S. Senator from Michigan..................    3580Hon. John Boozman, U.S. Senator from Arkansas....................    368182                              INTRODUCERS8384Hon. Dan Sullivan, U.S. Senator from Alaska......................     48586Hon. Bill Cassidy, U.S. Senator from Louisiana...................     58788Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............     68990                                NOMINEES9192Captain Samuel Brown, U.S. Army (Ret.), Nominee To Be Under93  Secretary for Memorial Affairs, U.S. Department of Veterans94  Affairs........................................................     79596James Baehr, Nominee To Be General Counsel, U.S. Department of97  Veterans Affairs...............................................     99899Richard Topping, Nominee To Be Chief Financial Officer, U.S.100  Department of Veterans Affairs.................................    11101102                                APPENDIX103                          Nomination Material104105Captain Samuel Brown, Nominee106107  Prepared statement.............................................    43108109  Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:110111    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    46112    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    49113114  Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Question submitted by:115116    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    51117118  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:119120    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    52121    Hon. Kevin Cramer............................................    53122    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................    54123    Hon. Mazie K. Hirono.........................................    55124125  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    56126127                      Nomination Material (cont.)128129James Baehr, Nominee130131  Prepared statement.............................................    73132133  Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:134135    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    75136    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    78137138  Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Questions submitted by:139140    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    90141142  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:143144    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    91145    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................    92146    Hon. Mazie K. Hirono.........................................    93147    Hon. Dan Sullivan............................................    94148149  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    95150151  Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................   117152153Richard Topping, Nominee154155  Prepared statement.............................................   123156157  Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:158159    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................   125160    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................   128161162  Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Questions submitted by:163164    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................   132165166  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:167168    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................   134169170  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................   135171172                      HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING173                              NOMINATIONS174175                              ----------176177                         TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2025178179                                       U.S. Senate,180                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,181                                                    Washington, DC.182    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., in183Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran,184Chairman of the Committee, presiding.185186    Present: Senators Moran, Boozman, Cassidy, Tillis,187Sullivan, Blackburn, Tuberville, Banks, Sheehy, Blumenthal,188Murray, Hirono, Hassan, King, Gallego, and Slotkin.189190             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,191               CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS192193    Chairman Moran. Thank you all very much for making me feel194important by the use of the gavel. It did get quiet and it was195kind of a good feeling. Mostly, when I saw my colleagues get196quiet. I felt powerful. So thank you all [laughter].197    The hearing will come to order and I thank all of you for198being here. This morning, we will consider three pending199nominations. Samuel Brown, nominee to be the VA Under Secretary200for Memorial Affairs; James Baehr, nominee to be the VA General201Counsel; and Richard Topping, nominee to be the VA Chief202Financial Officer.203    Each of these roles are critically important to fulfilling204the VA's mission of improving the care, benefits, and services205of millions of veterans, caregivers, survivors, and206beneficiaries across the country. The Under Secretary of207Memorial Affairs is responsible for making certain veterans and208their loved ones have a dignified final resting place and are209appropriately memorialized for future generations.210    The VA's General Counsel is responsible for making certain211the department and its employees, faithfully follow the laws212that Congress writes in providing legal counsel and expertise213on a range of issues that impact services veterans and214beneficiaries receive.215    And finally, the VA's Chief Financial Officer is216responsible for making certain that the VA is a good steward of217taxpayer dollars and well-funded for carrying out the218department's sacred mission.219    Captain Brown, Lieutenant Colonel Baehr, Captain Topping220have all served in the military themselves, and as they will221explain in their testimony today, each of them have personal222experience with the VA in their civilian lives. I look forward223to hearing this morning their goals if confirmed, and working224alongside Secretary Collins and Deputy Secretary Lawrence in225their respective roles to raise the bar across the VA to better226serve fellow veterans. I thank you all for being here and with227that I yield to the Ranking Member.228229         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,230         RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT231232    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to233each of the nominees for your willingness to serve and to your234families for their support. As we say about our veterans,235families serve as much as our men and women in uniform and the236same is true of all who serve in our Veterans Affairs237Department.238    Right at the outset, let me just say that I will join in239insisting that there be no unanimous consent to any of these240nominations. My colleague, Senator Gallego of Arizona, has241stated that he will ``block the nominations'', which means he242will object to unanimous consent. I certainly intended to do243the same, and I think the Senate is entitled to a full debate244on each of these nominations.245    This Committee will delve into your background, but let me246just say about this process, I voted for the Secretary, Doug247Collins, after his assurances about being transparent, about248preserving the workforce of the VA, about putting veterans249first. I have been disappointed. I think that is a vast250understatement, because he has failed to respond to our251inquiries and questions. He has targeted 80,000 in addition to252the 2,400 already fired among the VA workforce.253    The impacts of the roll back and the heartless,254heartbreaking cuts in veteran services, are already evident to255many of us who were home just this past weekend. Tomorrow at a256shadow hearing, as we have called it, beginning at three257o'clock, we are going to explore some of the real-life impact258of the cuts, freezes, and firings that have occurred already.259Cuts and funding, freezes in hiring, and firing of thousands of260VA employees.261    The fact that the nominee for Secretary could in this way,262in my view, so mislead us, indicates to me that we need an263especially exacting and demanding process, and I am intent that264we will explore as fully and completely as possible the265backgrounds of every nominee, for every position.266    Each of you will have an extraordinarily important role in267the VA. Mr. Brown, if confirmed as Under Secretary for Memorial268Affairs, you will lead a department with one of VA's most269sacred missions, honoring our veteran service members and their270families with a dignified burial and lasting memorial. I hope271that you will continue the excellent leadership of your272predecessor, our last Under Secretary General Matt Quinn,273particularly to ensure that the National Cemetery274Administration is adequately staffed and able to accomplish its275mission.276    We have heard about the Musk/Trump assault on the VA277workforce that has already apparently discouraged and driven278off a number of our senior NCA officials in the field, and as a279result, there may be delays in multiple months in burial and280interments. You need to be fully transparent with us, with281families, and others in pushing back on Secretary Collins, Elon282Musk and Donald Trump if they continue to fire or fail to hire,283sufficient numbers to provide the kind of service that our284veterans need and deserve.285    Mr. Baehr, if confirmed as VA's General Counsel, you will286be the top lawyer in the department. You are going to be287advising VA leadership on litigation policy and ethics. You are288going to be working for the President who said he doesn't need289to obey court orders. You have expressed to me that you believe290that court orders need to be obeyed. The executive branch291overreach cannot be permitted to stand if there is a292disobedience of court orders. And I will be asking you very293direct questions about your adherence to the rule of law.294    Mr. Topping, if confirmed as Chief Financial Officer, you295are going to oversee a budget that is approaching 400 billion296and it directly impacts the care and services provided for all297of our Nation's veterans. As we have seen, Elon Musk is pushing298indiscriminate cost cutting across all Federal agencies,299regardless of the consequences. This effort is not only300upending lives and harming veterans, but it is incredibly301shortsighted and will cost taxpayers more in the long run.302    The failure to prevent illness, just as an example, cost a303lot more than providing the kind of care veterans need to avoid304the additional expense of treatment if they become sicker.305Today, we need to know whether each of you will put veterans306first.307    I have offered legislation called Putting Veterans First,308that would require all of the fired veterans, in all of the309agencies of the Federal Government to be hired back, and all of310the fired employees in the VA to be hired back. And to prevent311anything like the blanket across-the-board firings that have312occurred by requiring individual, personalized assessment of313the performance of any individual who is considered for314termination and giving them appeal rights--due process,315essentially.316    Also, this legislation would prevent the mining and317collecting of data from veterans by anyone including the Musk318operation, which has been going forward.319    Let me just conclude by saying, we are going to have this320shadow hearing tomorrow, with veterans who are our eyes and321ears by what is actually happening. We are doing this shadow322hearing because Secretary Collins has so far refused to appear323before this Committee. I know he has agreed at some point in324the future to do so, perhaps in connection to the budget325hearing. I am looking forward to that appearance, but we need326answers right away to the questions we have been asking in327letters that we have written, and we need them in public so328veterans can see and have some transparency and visibility into329what is actually happening.330    The anger among our veteran's community is mounting and to331quote the commander of the VFW when he appeared in the hearing332before us, ``we need to stop the bleeding''.333    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.334    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now recognize335Senator Sullivan to introduce Captain Brown.336337               INTRODUCTION BY HON. DAN SULLIVAN,338                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA339340    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking341Member, Blumenthal. It is my honor this morning to introduce342Captain Samuel Brown for the position of Under Secretary of the343VA for Memorial Affairs.344    In this Committee, we often hear from American veterans who345have served the United States honorably, that make countless346sacrifices to protect our great Nation. We hear stories of347great success that make us proud. We also hear stories of348heartbreak and sacrifice and tragedies, patriotic Americans349sacrificing their lives for our freedoms.350    The Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs has the important,351I would say, critical responsibility of overseeing the352Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery353Administration.354    The National Cemetery Administration plays a central role355in honoring the contributions of our service members, ensuring356they receive a dignified burial, with recognition of their357service, providing gravesites alongside their fellow veterans.358Headstones and markers that tell the story of these American359heroes, and the continued maintenance of these very important360sites, is important for all Americans.361    The honor we pay to our veterans in the United States is a362source of great pride and an important part of our national363heritage. The memorial of a veteran is a symbol of our enduring364gratitude for their service and a commitment to their365sacrifices that it will not be forgotten.366    I am very honored today to be introducing a friend, a367loving husband, and father of three and proud American Army368veteran who understands in the most severe way the honor and369service, and yes, sacrifice of serving in our Armed Forces. Mr.370Sam Brown is a perfect example of the selfless service and371sacrifice that we admire so much in those who have served in372our military.373    Colleagues, we have all been to the funerals of fallen374service members. These are somber and moving affairs that are375seared in the collective memory we have as Americans, for life.376Many of these places in which these moving and important377ceremonies take place will be under Sam Brown's leadership, if378he is confirmed.379    I can think of no one more capable and qualified to carry380out the solemn responsibilities of supporting our veterans and381their families, at the end of their lives, with compassion and382dignity than Mr. Brown. Captain Brown will make an excellent383Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, managing and caring for384over 4 million Americans interned at our 156 national385cemeteries across the country.386    Captain Brown is a decorated soldier who comes from a387family with a strong ethic of military service, including his388very accomplished and brilliant wife, also a United States Army389veteran. Like so many veterans, Mr. Brown answered the call to390service after our country was attacked by terrorists--after 9/39111. After graduating from the United States Military Academy of392West Point in 2006, Captain Brown was commissioned as an393infantry officer in the United States Army in 2008, and was394deployed to Afghanistan.395    On this deployment, Captain Brown was severely injured in396an IED attack, leaving severe burns over much of his body. His397painful recovery involved over 30 surgeries. His wife Amy,398heroically nourished him back to health. In recognition of Mr.399Brown's bravery and sacrifice, he was awarded the Purple Heart400and Bronze Star.401    After being medically retired from the United States Army,402Mr. Brown went on to start an innovative healthcare company,403which works with the VA to support the delivery of critical404medications to our Nation's veterans, serving a network of over40568,000 pharmacies across the country.406    Captain Brown's work on this venture is a great testament407to his impressive leadership abilities, solutions-oriented408mindset that will be of great benefit to the National Cemetery409Administration, and the veterans we all honor and serve.410    Mr. Brown's confirmation will send a clear message to our411veterans and their families, that their sacrifices will be412respected, remembered, and honored. Captain Brown has the413experience in understanding to care for our service members, to414get them the dignified burial that they have earned through415their service, and ensure that friends and families can416continue to visit their loved ones who lie in dignified and417beautiful national cemeteries across our Nation.418    I urge all of my colleagues to support the confirmation of419this patriotic American, who has sacrificed enormously for our420Nation, to be the Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs. Thank421you, Mr. Chairman.422    Chairman Moran. Senator Sullivan. Thank you very much.423    I now recognize Senator Cassidy to introduce Lieutenant424Colonel Baehr.425426               INTRODUCTION BY HON. BILL CASSIDY,427                  U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA428429    Senator Cassidy. Thank you, Chairman Moran and Ranking430Member Blumenthal. I have the privilege to introduce Lieutenant431Colonel James Baehr for his nomination as General Counsel of432the Department of Veterans Affairs. I also welcome his wife433Jasmine, his father Ted, and his son, whose 4-month birthday is434today. So, if he gives a real shout-out in a second, we won't435be surprised.436    Currently, James serves as a military judge in the U.S.437Marine Corps Reserve and on the Louisiana Veterans Affairs438Commission, where he has been a great advocate for Louisiana439veterans. But this just scratches the surface of an impressive440career.441    James has served in the Marine Corps for nearly 20 years as442a defense counsel, a civil affairs officer. He was deployed443during Operation Inherent Resolve in Iraq as a staff officer444for Lieutenant General Paul Funk. It was during his time under445General Funk that James earned the Defense Meritorious Service446Medal and Joint Service Achievement Medal. These accolades can447speak for themselves, but having a statement of support from a448General does not hurt.449    In the statement submitted to this Committee, General Funk450states that ``James' personal leadership contributed to the451superb success of our mission. This great Marine officer did452what Marines do. He added clarity to chaos and confidence where453calamity once prevailed. In a complex operational environment,454Lieutenant Colonel Baehr played a key role in shaping how our455mission was seen by the outside world. His work reflected not456just logistical excellence, that sound judgment and strategic457insight''.458    Off the battlefield, James prosecuted violent crime and459civil corruption as a Federal prosecutor in the Eastern460District of Louisiana. He also clerked on the Fifth Circuit,461and advised President Trump on veteran's issues, as a special462assistant to the President during the President's first term.463While advising the White House, he worked to expand access to464healthcare, improve suicide prevention measures, and better the465lives of our veterans.466    And these are issues James knows firsthand as a veteran. He467has received care at the New Orleans VA Medical Center. He is a468husband who used a VA home loan to buy his home, and he is a469father who transferred his GI Bill benefits to his son. We all470know that our VA can do more for our veterans, that starts with471having strong leadership.472    I am confident that James will bring legal excellence,473integrity, and a mission first mindset to the role of General474Counsel. Most of all, I know that he will put our veterans at475the forefront of every decision he makes. He has my full476support. Thank you Lieutenant Colonel for offering yourself for477service. With that I yield.478    Chairman Moran. Senator Cassidy, thank you. And Senator479Tillis, I now recognize you to introduce Captain Topping.480481               INTRODUCTION BY HON. THOM TILLIS,482                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA483484    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member485Blumenthal, and colleagues on the Committee. It is my privilege486to introduce Richard Topping, an outstanding nominee, uniquely487qualified for Chief Financial Officer of the VA.488    The VA is a lifeline for 9 million veterans, operating the489largest integrated health system in the country. With a $370490billion budget, a budget that must be managed with precision491and accountability. Yet last year, the multi-billion-dollar492budget shortfall exposed serious failures in financial493oversight. The department's inability to properly forecast its494needs created uncertainty for veterans, policymakers and495taxpayers alike. These kinds of missteps are inexcusable when496veterans are at stake.497    With 25 years in healthcare, law and finance, Richard has498worked across TRICARE, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA's499Community Care system. As an Army JAG officer, he was a pioneer500in military healthcare financing. In North Carolina, he501restructured the state's failing Medicaid program, turning it502into a model of fiscal responsibility and improved care for 2.7503million people in North Carolina.504    But beyond his resume, Richard understands this system505firsthand. As a VA enrolled veteran himself, from the early506days of the Choice program, he has fought to ensure veterans507can access high quality care, whether in VA facility or in our508community. I know Richard Topping and I know he is the right509man for the job.510    I met him 17 years ago; I had more hair and he had black511hair. Fresh out of the Department of Justice, Richard had moved512to Charlotte. He was the same then as he is now, eager to serve513the public and qualified to make a difference. We need a514decisive financial leader who will bring transparency,515discipline, and reform to the VA.516    Richard Topping is ready to take on this challenge and I am517proud to endorse him for the CFO role, and I urge my colleagues518to support him in his nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chair.519    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Tillis. I now would ask520all three witnesses to stand and take the oath. Would you521please raise your right hand. Thank you. Do you solemnly swear522or affirm that the testimony you are about to give before the523United States Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs will be the524truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you525God?526    Captain Brown. I do.527    Mr. Baehr. I do528    Mr. Topping. I do.529    Let the record show all three witnesses answered in the530affirmative. Please be seated.531    Captain Brown, we begin with you. Thank you for your532presence here today and your interest in service. And feel free533to introduce your family as part of your testimony and you are534recognized now for 5 minutes.535536STATEMENT OF CAPTAIN SAMUEL BROWN, U.S. ARMY (RET.), NOMINEE TO537  BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR MEMORIAL AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF538                        VETERANS AFFAIRS539540    Captain Brown. Thank you, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member541Blumenthal. And thank you for inviting me to testify before542this Committee today. Senator Sullivan, thank you for your543service in uniform and for your gracious introduction.544    I also want to acknowledge and thank my wife Amy Brown, who545is not here this morning because she actually has a VA546appointment and told me she won't be able to watch the hearing547as she is having labs drawn. She is a combat veteran, the548mother of our three children, and the woman who loved me when I549didn't believe it was possible for anyone to see beyond my550horrific scars in the months after being wounded.551    She is more than a spouse. Amy is my best friend and is a552hero to me.553    I must also thank President Trump for nominating me to lead554the National Cemetery Administration. As I hope you will hear555and understand to my testimony today, this is a sacred duty and556a commitment our Nation must uphold to our service members and557veterans who gave a portion or in some cases, all of their life558in service to the rest of us.559    It is humbling to be before you, a Committee that leads the560United States Senate and bipartisan work, that delivers life561changing legislation like the VA Accountability and562Whistleblower Protection Act, the MISSION Act, and the PACT563Act. It is equally humbling to be considered as someone who564will lead the National Cemetery Administration, which has a565legacy of honoring our veterans and the families it serves with566distinction, and boasts an impeccable record of customer567service.568    I am the son and grandson of veterans. I was raised in a569family where we were expected to join the military after high570school. My journey down that path began just months after our571Nation was attacked on September 11, 2001. I was accepted to572the United States Military Academy at West Point and reported573for training and my education in less than a year after those574attacks.575    My family members walked that path alongside me. My father,576two younger brothers and my wife all deployed to Afghanistan or577Iraq. I lost a soldier as a result of the roadside bomb; at the578same time, I received my wounds that still scar me to this day.579I lost friends in Afghanistan and Iraq and I even lost my580closest brother to suicide as a result of the unseen wounds581from traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat operations582over the course of his three deployments to Helmand,583Afghanistan.584    I have devoted my life to this country and its veterans,585both in uniform and after I was medically retired. I have586worked for and with veterans service organizations. I have run587a company that provides the Department of Veterans Affairs with588emergency or urgent care pharmaceutical services for our589veterans. And the VA has been my primary healthcare provider590for 13 years since I retired from the Army. As a result, I591commit to you that if confirmed, I will always put veterans and592their families at the center of everything I lead.593    The greatest lesson I learned in uniform came to me on that594fateful day in the desert of Afghanistan on September 2008. As595I lay face down in the dirt and dust, covered in flames from596the top of my head to midway down my legs, I reached a597significant point in my life. I finally faced my own humanity598and realized that I could not save my own life.599    Isolated and alone in my own living nightmare, I cried out600to my Creator, Jesus Christ and my mother. I had three thoughts601in this moment. I wondered how long it will take to burn to602death. I pondered the transition from this life to the next and603what it was going to be like. And then I made the conscious604decision to give up the will to live. A version of me died in605that moment.606    I was reborn when I heard the voice of my gunner scream out607``Sir, I've got you''. After smothering the flames that burned608my body, his words gave me the miracle of hope. That hope609rescued me and it was the start of a journey that brings me610here before you today.611    The message of hope that I received on the battlefield, is612one that the National Cemetery Administration delivers every613day to the families and loved ones who are left wondering if614they can go on with their lives after losing a cherished person615who served this country. When that day arrives, the National616Cemetery Administration is there to tell those family members617and loved ones ``We've got you''.618    I understand this responsibility and sacred duty to fulfill619President Lincoln's promise, ``Take care of those who have620served in our Nation's military and for their families,621caregivers and survivors''. That is why I sit before you today622to ask you to support my nomination to become the next Under623Secretary for Memorial Affairs.624    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.625626    [The prepared statement of Captain Brown appears on page 43627of the Appendix.]628629    Chairman Moran. Mr. Brown, thank you for your very630meaningful testimony. Lieutenant Colonel Baehr.631632 STATEMENT OF JAMES BAEHR, NOMINEE TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, U.S.633                 DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS634635    Mr. Baehr. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal,636honorable Members of this Committee.637    It is the honor of my life to appear before you today as638the nominee for General Counsel of the Department of Veterans639Affairs and to tell you about my commitment to my fellow640veterans.641    I am profoundly grateful to President Trump for this642nomination and to Secretary Collins for his confidence in my643ability to fulfill this role. If confirmed, I pledge to644continue to uphold my lifelong commitment to the Constitution645and devote myself fully to the department's sacred mission, to646care for our veterans, their families, caregivers, and647survivors.648    I am blessed to have some of my family in attendance. My649father is here, who has always taught me to pursue service over650self. My mother is here too in spirit, though she passed away651several years ago, she taught me to never give up on your652impossible dreams. My brother is here with his family. He has653taught me what it means to be loyal to a comrade and to a654brother, and many friends are here as well.655    And most importantly, my wife Jasmine is here and our656newborn son James, who is 4 months old today. I cannot thank my657wife enough for the sacrifices she has made to support my many658endeavors and that she will continue to make, should I be659confirmed. And it is my hope that my son would want to choose660the path of military service, that has been the most important661and noble decision I have made in my life. And someday that he662would be blessed to call himself an American veteran.663    I was an incoming freshman when terrorists attacked the664World Trade Center. I was 19 years old when I ran into an665Officer Selection Officer in the dining hall of Dartmouth666College, who changed my life. He asked me if I wanted to go to667Officer Candidate School that summer. I had no business going668to Quantico. I had no family service tradition. I was a nerd,669but I could not shake the conviction that I should go, I should670serve. And I said yes to that Officer Selection Officer. I went671to Quantico and when I graduated, I was blessed to become a672Marine.673    After law school at UVA, I was blessed to serve as a judge674advocate, defending my fellow Marines at Camp Pendleton,675California. After active duty, I took a clerkship in New676Orleans on the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. I was then hired677as Federal prosecutor and served in the Department of Justice678for years under presidents of different parties. I remained in679the Marine Corps Reserve, serving as a civil affairs team680leader and then deploying to Iraq in 2018 during the fight681against ISIS.682    When I returned from Iraq, I experienced firsthand that683sense of dislocation that so many veterans feel after coming684home from the intensity of deployment to the civilian world.685And that is an experience I will take with me to the role of686General Counsel, if confirmed.687    It was around this time that the opportunity arose to enter688a different mission: to become a key policy advisor to689President Trump on veterans' issues in his first690administration. I have worked closely with VA, and many of the691dedicated staffers in this room to improve veteran access to692healthcare, increase accountability at VA, and address veteran693mental health and suicide.694    I am proud of the bipartisan accomplishments that we695achieved with the support and help of this Committee and696President Trump. After the administration, I returned to697litigation to fight public-impact constitutional cases--698representing litigants challenging government overreach and699service member families impacted by government negligence. I700continue to serve in the military reserve, upholding the law,701as a military trial judge.702    I would take all of these experiences with me in my service703to veterans at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I am not704just a nominee, my life is entwined with the VA. As Senator705Cassidy said, I received care at our beautiful New Orleans VA706Medical Center. My family purchased our home from a VA home707loan guarantee, and I transferred my GI Bill, that the VA708administers, to my son. I serve as an appointed commissioner at709our state's Veterans Affairs Commission.710    I have a deep appreciation for the challenges that711department faces, and the urgent need to ensure that veterans712receive the highest level of service that they have earned. And713you have my wholehearted commitment to uphold the oath to the714Constitution that I swore as a Marine and as a prosecutor, and715to place the veteran at the center of all that I do.716    The decisions that General Counsel makes are not just books717in the law. They are decisions that impact the lives of the718veterans every day, and I will never forget that. If confirmed,719I will work tirelessly to advance principles of accountability,720integrity, and mission accomplishment in the Office of General721Counsel.722    First, the accountability. The first lesson of Marine Corps723leadership is that ``You are responsible for everything that724happens or fails to happen under your command''. I will take725responsibility for my actions and those of my office. Second,726integrity. I will fully commit to faithfully interpret the law,727and provide the Secretary the best legal counsel so that the728office operates with trust and credibility.729    And third, mission accomplishment--making certain that my730office is never the obstacle to impede the VA from delivering731the care, benefits, and services that veterans have earned in a732timely fashion.733    I am humbled by this opportunity to continue serving my734fellow veterans. If confirmed, I will work tirelessly to735support the Secretary and this Committee in delivering on the736promise made to every veteran, and to secure that promise for737the veterans who will come after us.738    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today,739and I look forward to answering your questions.740741    [The prepared statement of Mr. Baehr appears on page 73 of742the Appendix.]743744    Chairman Moran. Thank you for your testimony. I recognize745Captain Topping.746747  STATEMENT OF RICHARD TOPPING, NOMINEE TO BE CHIEF FINANCIAL748          OFFICER, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS749750    Mr. Topping. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member751Blumenthal. Thank you, Senator Tillis and distinguished Members752of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear753before you today.754    It is a profound honor to be nominated for this role. I am755deeply committed to the mission of the VA and if confirmed, I756will work to ensure that our veterans, families, caregivers,757and survivors receive the care and benefits they have earned.758    I am deeply grateful to President Trump and Secretary759Collins for their confidence in me. I am grateful to the760Members of this Committee for considering me to serve our great761Nation alongside the men and women who are dedicated to762delivering on one of America's most sacred promises.763    Over the last few weeks, I have had the opportunity to meet764with several Members of the Committee and your staffs. I have765appreciated the direct candid input and guidance about your766priorities and opportunities for how we can fulfill our shared767commitment to veterans. Our meetings were an affirmation of the768singular importance of the mission, and the critical role to769which I will be entrusted, if confirmed.770    I am an Army veteran. And for the past 20 years, which is771all of my adult life after completing my military service, I772have been a beneficiary of VA. I have grown up with the VA as a773constant support and resource. VA has provided for me and my774family in ways both small and large. From simple primary care775checkups, to the VA loan that allowed me to purchase my family776home, to the programs that will be there for me as I age and my777needs become more complex. Just about the only thing in my life778that has not changed over the past 20 years has been the VA.779    But it is not just me. My grandfathers, the first in their780families who received college educations, did so through the GI781Bill. Both World War II Veterans, one Navy, the other Army. So782just about the only thing they agreed on was the importance of783the VA and giving them their first chance to succeed.784    My younger sister, who became life threateningly ill in785Iraq, received almost all of her post-military care support786from VA. And while she ultimately passed from her illness, my787family and I personally experienced the life sustaining care VA788provided her. Finally, the newest VA enrollment in my family is789not my son. He is too young and with his early aptitude for790engineering, I am quite worried that he is headed to the Navy.791    No, my family's newest VA enrollee is my father. A Vietnam-792era veteran, he has both Medicare and private coverage through793my mother's retirement as a public school teacher. But even794with that coverage, he still struggled to find specialized795hearing care related to his military service with jet engines.796So we turned to the VA. He applied, was rated, enrolled and797received incredible specialty care in a matter of months. It798was care that only the VA could provide. A commitment that our799Nation made to my father decades ago was there when he needed800it.801    While VA has cared for me and my family, I have been lucky802in my career to be able to care for others. More than two803decades, I have had the opportunity to work in government and804private sector, with the Nation's largest healthcare programs,805TRICARE, Medicare, Medicaid, Marketplace, and VA's own806Community Care.807    All of these programs are complex, funding can be808difficult, capabilities often lag requirements and programs809must constantly evolve to meet the needs of individuals they810are intended to serve. That work can often be financially,811operationally, and politically challenging. But through these812experiences, I have developed a strong understanding of the813complexities and responsibilities involved in leading large814organizations and managing complex financial systems.815    The more critical an organization's mission, the more816critical its accountability. As CFO, I will use my experience,817skills and leadership to coordinate and enhance VA's financial818systems, ensure taxpayer dollars are used effectively and819transparently, and maximize financial operations across the820agency. My focus will be on enhanced financial reporting,821improved budget forecasting and management, and ensuring the822continued modernization of VA's financial infrastructure and823technology. If confirmed, I will work with the Secretary, this824Committee, VA's incredible career staff, my fellow appointees,825and the many other stakeholders who embrace the responsibility826to care for veterans.827    I am honored to be nominated to serve an organization that828has done so much for me and for my family. May God bless all829those who have fought and sacrificed for this great Nation. I830am forever grateful.831    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am prepared to respond to any832questions you and the Committee may have.833834    [The prepared statement of Mr. Topping appears on page 123835of the Appendix.]836837    Chairman Moran. Mr. Topping, I thank you and the other two838witnesses. I thank you for your service. And we will now begin839an opportunity for Members of this Committee to ask you840questions.841    Mr. Baehr, I would like to start with you. First of all, I842ask you to give General Funk my regards. He served at Fort843Riley and First Infantry Division and at Fort Leavenworth in844Training and Doctrine Command, and I hold him in the highest845regard.846    First of all, we often--this Committee--often find our847request for information waiting for the Office of the OGC to848provide us with that answer. Can you commit to me that you will849do everything you can to see that this Committee gets the850information that we request in a timely fashion?851    Mr. Baehr. Yes Sir. I think the oversight function of this852Committee is absolutely essential in our constitutional853structure. I never want the Office of General Counsel to be the854impediment to you receiving information that you require to do855that job.856    Chairman Moran. Thank you. You have mentioned the857Constitution in your statement several times and just now, and858my question to you is, are there any circumstances you would859recommend to the Secretary to disobey an order of the court or860disregard any court decision or ruling?861    Mr. Baehr. Absolutely, absolutely not, sir. As a military862judge myself, I understand the importance of our courts in our863constitutional system, and the importance of following the864Constitution and the court's orders.865    Chairman Moran. I thank you for that answer. And now let me866turn to you, Mr. Topping. In 2017, a North Carolina state867auditor found that while you served as the Chief Executive868Officer of Cardinal Innovations, a mental healthcare869organization, you overspent on administration and contracting870to include your salary as well as excessive expenditures on871cars, credit cards, social gatherings, travel bonuses for872employees, and explored business opportunities outside the873company's core mission.874    The audit was followed by your departure. Would you please875explain these circumstances, from your point of view, where the876ongoing litigation currently stands and why the Senate and the877American people should put their faith in you with financial878management at the Department of Veterans Affairs in light of879these allegations?880    Mr. Topping. Sir, thank you so much for the question. In my88125 years in this business, every single independent financial882audit that I have ever been a participant in or accountable for883has resulted in a clean audit opinion attesting to the accuracy884of the financial statements of my company. What you are885referring to is the North Carolina program audit. That was a886political audit by an elected Democrat who was opposed to the887work that my company and I were doing to implement Governor888McCrory's Medicaid reform.889    The allegations she made were false, they were misleading.890I said so at the time. I corrected the record. You can read my891response in the report. And the allegations that then led to892frivolous litigation, has since been dismissed. The litigation893that I filed to defend myself resulted in a $500,000 defamation894judgment in my favor. And after the audit, our auditor made895these false misleading, and according to the court, defamatory896statements. She was indicted for misuse of public funds, pled897guilty and was removed from office. I am confident that my898business record and her criminal record speak for themselves.899    Chairman Moran. I thank you for that answer. I recognize900Senator Blumenthal.901    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Brown, as902you know, the NCA consistently ranks high, in fact, perhaps903highest among all government agencies in terms of customer904satisfaction. It is a sacred mission that the NCA performs. I905am deeply concerned about the projected firing of 80,000906members of the VA workforce, including potentially NCA907employees. Will you commit to this Committee that you will908stand up against firing any of the NCA employees who are909important to fulfilling its mission?910    Captain Brown. Thank you Senator. What I can commit to you911is that the mission will always be first. When I was in the912Army, we had a motto that ``No mission too difficult, no913sacrifice too great, Duty First!'' In this case, the veteran is914the mission, and everything that the Secretary has spoken about915publicly, he has stated as much.916    So, to the extent that the mission of NCA, which is to917honor the lives of our veterans, their family members, to918ensure that they are properly memorialized, that is my focus,919and I will do everything I can to make sure that that mission920is never impeded.921    Senator Blumenthal. So, you will stand up to any cuts that922are made, for hiring freezes?923    Captain Brown. Senator, I don't yet know exactly how the924field operations are conducted. And so, what I can tell you is925the mission will never suffer, if confirmed, under my926leadership.927    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Baehr, let me ask you, currently928there is a policy we have heard that requires VBA employees to929first contact their superiors for permission, that is political930leadership before they talk to the Office of General Counsel.931In other words, they have to get permission from the political932leadership before talking to the Office of General Counsel.933Would you oppose that kind of policy?934    Mr. Baehr. Thank you, Senator. My goals would be935accountability and communication, making sure that the Office936of General Counsel provides consistent advice. I am not there937now and I don't know all the details of the policy, but my goal938would be to efficiently provide responses across the939enterprise, across the entire client base, which is the940Department of Medical Affairs and the veterans that we serve.941    Senator Blumenthal. Wouldn't you agree that VA employees942should be free to talk to the Office of General Counsel without943first seeking permission from the political leadership?944    Mr. Baehr. Sir, in general, I think communication is vital.945I do think it is important that it occurs in an organized946fashion so that employees are not providing one piece of advice947to one person and one piece of advice to another that is948distinct or different.949    So, my goal would be to achieve communication in an950organized fashion. In terms of other concerns such as, for951example, whistleblower issues or retaliation, you know, we have952a special structure at the VA that permits those folks to go to953the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection and954other places to pursue those.955    Senator Blumenthal. Well, I think that is a complicated956answer to a question that could be answered very simply, that957employees should be free to seek legal advice on issues before958they take action that might violate the law. Wouldn't you agree959with that as a very simple proposition?960    Mr. Baehr. Yes, sir. It is a general proposition. I would961agree with that.962    Senator Blumenthal. I know that I and a number of my963colleagues on both sides of the aisle have been frustrated in964the past with how long the VA takes to promulgate rules and965implement policy. Will you commit to try to speed the timelines966for that purpose?967    Mr. Baehr. Absolutely, sir. I think that is one of the most968important missions that the office does in terms of its role in969regulatory guidance, in rulemaking. I will set rigorous metrics970to increase our efficiencies and ensure that our team rapidly971accomplishes the mission for the service of our veterans. I972know there are a lot of important rules that you and others973have proposed, and I would look forward to the opportunity to974help the office increase efficiency in that role.975    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Topping, you said that, in976connection with the audit that the Chairman mentioned, that it977was done by a--I am not going to use your words exactly--by978political appointee or was politically motivated. What is the979basis for that statement?980    Mr. Topping. She is an elected Democratic official.981    Senator Blumenthal. But I am a Democratic elected official982and I am asking you questions. That is not necessarily a983political exercise.984    Mr. Topping. Yes, sorry about that.985    Senator Blumenthal. The mere fact that she was an elected986Democratic official does not make it a political inquiry or987witch hunt. What is the basis for your statement that it was988politically motivated?989    Mr. Topping. Thanks for the question. And again, as elected990Democrat, she was opposed to the work that we were doing to991implement the Republican Governor's Medicaid reform. And all992this was related to the same issue in North Carolina, which was993the fight over Medicaid managed care. And there were two sides994to that. There were those of us that felt the system was995broken, that it was not serving patients and that it needed to996be fixed. There were those that felt we didn't need to fix997anything; we could simply flood the system with billions of998dollars of new Medicaid expansion money and provide support to999political supporters in the process.1000    The choice is very clear, patience or politics? I picked1001patience. And if confirmed in this position, and I find myself1002in a situation where I need to choose between veterans and1003politics, I will choose veterans.1004    Senator Blumenthal. My time has expired. I have some1005additional questions, maybe my colleagues will cover them on1006this issue. Thanks for your response.1007    Chairman Moran. Senator Cassidy.10081009                       HON. BILL CASSIDY,1010                  U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA10111012    Senator Cassidy. Lieutenant Colonel Baehr, in your pre-1013hearing responses, you stated that you have prioritized timely1014access to benefits for veterans and updating electronic systems1015for a more efficient VA.1016    There was somebody sitting there at a previous hearing and1017I asked about using artificial intelligence, and he said,1018``well, we're getting there'', and I said, how you getting1019there? He goes, ``we're using optical character resolution to1020convert printed documents to something that could be a PDF and1021reviewed by people at home.'' And I remember doing that 201022years ago when I was way back, when before I was in politics.1023And so, I don't really consider that modernization, I consider1024that kind of almost stone age application of technology.1025    And I lead into that because one thing that would be1026modern, if you will, is to use artificial intelligence to1027significantly speed up the processing of veteran benefits1028claims. Backlogs would be gone very quickly, if we had a large1029language model with a human in the loop, making sure the1030decision was right and just. And it would also lower cost. I1031mean, it's just like better for the veterans, lowers cost, I1032could go on.1033    So, I have been told that currently the VA does not have a1034roadmap on how to incorporate AI into its modernization, and1035has not yet developed formal policy guidance to support the use1036of AI technologies in the Veterans Benefits Administration. So,1037a long introduction, asking you to commit to working with this1038Committee to make such a roadmap including appropriate1039timelines, to incorporate AI capabilities to modernize benefit1040application and claims review, and to speed up and improve how1041veterans are served.1042    And by the way, to also look to make sure that if there is1043any fraud or any inappropriate applications to also be rooted1044out. I am kind of begging the answer, but I am hoping to get1045the answer.1046    Mr. Baehr. Thank you, Senator Cassidy. In terms of AI, I1047think I would turn to what the Deputy Secretary said in terms1048of its ability to assist with claims development. Senator King1049obviously asked about that and raised some concerns about the1050ultimate decision-maker being a human being.1051    So, I would certainly defer to the Deputy Secretary and the1052Secretary's vision. I do see a tremendous opportunity for1053technology and to the extent that my legal counsel can help us1054move more efficiently in any component of the department. I1055would certainly be eager to look into that.1056    Senator Cassidy. There has to be a human in the loop, but1057when you look at months and years delay, and sometimes people1058dying before decision is made, there has got to be some1059improvement. And to put our head in the sand and say that this1060is not a technology which could serve the veterans better, is1061putting our head in the sand.1062    I accept that you will defer to your superior, but I would1063urge that once that superior decides to do this, boom, you just1064come back and talk to us. Mr. Topping, you have mentioned1065several ways that Veterans Administration is struggling to1066provide quality healthcare to veterans. Administrative1067complexities and insufficient capabilities leading to long wait1068times. My bipartisan VetPAC Act with Senator Hirono would1069create an Independent Policy Advisory Commission of Medical1070Experts and veterans to review critical areas of the VHA to1071improve patient care. And the VA has said that they support1072this legislation.1073    So again, I am begging the answer because I am giving my1074hand, but I guess, what is your attitude toward an expert1075driven third party review of the VHA, including budget1076management operations, and would that go to help improving the1077concerns you outlined?1078    Mr. Topping. Senator, as I think even Secretary said at his1079confirmation hearing, that part of putting veterans at the1080center of everything we do, is improving the opportunity that1081they have to receive care. One of the things that we can1082certainly do at VHA that has been done in the rest of1083healthcare is bring in the program, bring the process, bring1084the expertise that exists elsewhere, not just inside VHA.1085    There are tremendous opportunities to learn from these1086other healthcare programs, not the least which is TRICARE1087sitting over at DOD, and bring some of those in and get the1088advice and implement those programs at VA. That is certainly1089something, pending the Secretary's engagement, I would be1090interested in following up on.1091    Senator Cassidy. You know, utilization review and prior1092authorization has a little bit of a bad name, but when done1093appropriately, it keeps inappropriate care from being1094performed. And right now, at least last time I had asked, VA1095does not have that, meaning that if the patient goes to an1096outside setting, she or he may end up with inappropriate care.1097And I am a doctor, so if you do too many procedures, inevitably1098you get the complication. So, in our desire to make sure that1099the veteran has what she or he needs but not more than what he1100or she needs, I would ask you to also look at that.1101    Mr. Topping. Senator, I will and I am going to plus one you1102on that. It is the med management--utilization management, but1103also the care coordinator that really drives that as well too,1104as you know.1105    Senator Cassidy. Amen, brother. Totally. I yield.1106    Chairman Moran. Senator Murray.11071108                       HON. PATTY MURRAY,1109                  U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON11101111    Senator Murray. First of all, thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank1112you all for being here today. I think you all agree that we as1113a country make a sacred oath to our veterans to take care of1114them when they return home. And you are asking to be part of1115that system.1116    Mr. Baehr, I remember when we met a few weeks ago, you1117talked about you just transferred your VA education benefits to1118your son. I was really glad to hear that because you as a1119veteran earned that benefit through your service. And in fact,1120all our veterans deserve access to the benefits they earned1121through their service. So, you can imagine why I, and many of1122us are very concerned about Trump's plan now to fire over112380,000 VA employees and how that would seriously disrupt1124veterans being able to access, not just their obviously1125education benefits, but their disability benefits, healthcare,1126home loan benefits, all of that they have earned. So, Mr.1127Baehr, I wanted to ask you, do you support those widespread1128cuts across the VA?1129    Mr. Baehr. Senator, and as you know, I am not at the VA and1130had no role in any of those choices or decisions. As an1131individual who uses VA myself, of course, I want to ensure that1132we have the best services and benefits. I also, as a veteran,1133want to see the VA improve, and I think this entire Committee1134does as well.1135    So, I would review the law and I would advise the Secretary1136on following a legal path and pursuing his vision for putting1137the veteran at the center of all we do, if confirmed.1138    Senator Murray. Do you think that firing 80,000 people will1139make it more or less difficult for veterans to get access?1140    Mr. Baehr. I have not looked at the situation myself,1141Senator, and I don't know what the--I just read the public1142reporting on it. I understand there's some exempt positions.1143The Secretary said that he is focused on care for veterans and1144making sure veterans don't lose care or benefits. So, I don't1145know where those opportunities for efficiency or not exist in1146the system. My role, if confirmed, will be to ensure that1147everything we do is lawful and compliant with Title V, Title114838, and other rules and regulations and provide----1149    Senator Murray. This Committee over the years has often1150discussed wait times, people not getting access. That has1151really increased in the last month or so from our veteran1152community. And it takes people to process. It takes somebody1153there to talk to. So, I would just remind all of us that this1154is a people organization, and if we fire 80,000 people it's1155going to be really challenging and difficult, if not impossible1156for our veterans to get the care and benefits that they have1157earned.1158    I kind of just reference that this Committee has worked to1159pass a lot of really important pieces of legislation that1160require vital changes at the VA. That include the Caregivers1161Program that I passed when I was Chair of this Committee. The1162Deborah Sampson Act and of course the PACT Act, which just1163passed recently.1164    During Secretary Collin's nomination hearing, he testified1165that he agreed with providing vital health care and benefits to1166veterans, and we have to get it right. However, I just have to1167say, I have really serious concerns that this administration1168now is picking and choosing which laws to follow, which means1169not living up to the promises we have made to our veterans and1170really ignoring the intent of Congress.1171    For example, we know that VA is doing a review to determine1172whether it is fully compliant with the MISSION Act, but not1173reviewing the compliance with any other piece of legislation.1174Mr. Topping, let me just start with you. Is the PACT Act less1175important than the MISSION Act?1176    Mr. Topping. Senator, I think all the legislation passed by1177this Congress is important.1178    Senator Murray. Do you think VA should pick and choose1179which laws to follow?1180    Mr. Topping. Senator, I think like any organization with1181limited resources, time, capabilities, there is always a1182prioritization, none is more or less important but I think what1183the Secretary said he is doing is, he is focused on maximizing1184efficiency, redeploying those resources so they are front1185facing and mission-essential to veterans, and ensuring that the1186veterans remain at the center of everything we do.1187    I am not there, I am not exactly sure how the1188prioritization works, but I understand what the Secretary has1189articulated his goals to be.1190    Senator Murray. Mr. Baehr, do you think that the VA should1191pick and choose which laws to follow?1192    Mr. Baehr. Senator, I believe that the VA should follow all1193the laws and if confirmed, I would advise the Secretary on how1194he can fulfill his role in the best course of action with all1195the laws and regulations that are passed by Congress.1196    Senator Murray. I just have a few seconds and I just wanted1197to ask you, Mr. Baehr, do you believe it is legal for DOGE to1198have access to veterans' personal information?1199    Mr. Baehr. Senator, again, I am not at VA and I am not1200familiar with what is going on. I am just operating on what I1201have read in the public news. And as the Deputy Secretary said1202in his hearing, there are significant protections for veterans'1203information. All three veterans before you, our information is1204at the VA. So, we are certainly sympathetic. I don't want1205anyone looking at my podiatry records or other embarrassing1206items----1207    Senator Murray. Personal, financial, health, all of that.1208So, if the department is given directives by DOGE or by the1209White House that you believe are illegal, will you follow those1210directives?1211    Mr. Baehr. Senator, as I said before to Senator Moran, I1212will always pursue the Constitution and follow the law. I don't1213believe I will be given illegal directives, but I will always1214follow the law.1215    Senator Murray. Thank you.1216    Chairman Moran. Senator Tillis.12171218                       HON. THOM TILLIS,1219                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA12201221    Senator Tillis. We have known each other for 10 years.1222    [Laughter.]1223    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations to1224all of you for your nomination. I intend to support your1225confirmation. Mr. Topping, about three years ago, we had VA1226administrators in this very room to talk about the PACT Act1227implementation. I voted against the PACT Act. I was one of1228about eight or nine people that did because I didn't think it1229was the ``plumbing'' for getting it right had been done by1230Congress.1231    The problem is we had a President who was pressing the1232Congress to move forward and we had a Democratic Chair who1233decided to move forward in spite of the promise to get the1234plumbing right. Now, and I said that at that time, I said, we1235are probably, I think my exact quote was ``about 18 or 241236months from now, you could have a real crisis in terms of1237people, technology, infrastructure, to actually support the1238will of Congress''. That is where we are now.1239    The shortfall that we had announced last year, the1240shortfall is ahead of us. The headwinds that you had to have1241ahead of us that are driven purely by the PACT Act1242implementation not being thought out. It's got to be a big task1243for you.1244    How are you going to go about making sure that we address1245the fiscal crisis that Congress imposed on you all, and assure1246we get the budget right, and we do not have a continued impact1247on VA care, which I do believe we are right now as a result of1248the PACT Act that, not against the policy, against the1249employer, but concerned with the implementation.1250    Mr. Topping. Senator, you have been remarkably consistent1251on this issue for as long as I have known, and I know as a1252consultant, I have known you long enough to know too that you1253are tough on this because you know what the right answer is. If1254confirmed, my priority as a CFO will be financial reporting1255analytics, budget forecasting and management, financial1256infrastructure and technology. And that is going to require1257getting the right teams and expertise, the organization1258structure that drives controls and accountability and having1259the right process and tools in place.1260    Having said that, I will follow the appropriation as they1261are made by Congress, but the idea would be to have maximum1262efficiency, maximum capability, and maximum flexibility, so1263that we move the dollars accountable for every single one, but1264move them around to best meet the mission and ensure we are1265following the Secretary's guidance to put the veteran at the1266center of everything that we do.1267    Senator Tillis. Now on its face, Mr. Topping, do you think1268an electronic health record--I get the size and the scope of1269the VA and I get the complexity of the VISNs and I get the1270complexity of an application portfolio that's exploded and1271everybody's using Excel spreadsheets, Access database, whatever1272they are to make ends meet, and there is a lot of variation1273out. There is a complex legacy environment that they were going1274into.1275    But can you imagine what we have done to spend over $101276billion on electronic health record implementation in the VA,1277crossing Republican and Democrat administrations. What on earth1278could we possibly do to get that under control? And in your1279role, the fiscal implications of a multi-billion-dollar1280electronic health record system that hasn't yet been fully1281implemented over, what is it now, five or six years? That seems1282like it should be an indicator of your first day in office, one1283of the failures of implementation. Again, I am not criticizing1284the Biden administration any more than I am when it started in1285the Trump administration. In some way this project went1286sideways.1287    When you are confirmed, can you commit to me that you will1288look at this through the lens, through your responsibilities as1289CFO and come up with a start, stop, continue, on a program that1290should have been finished by now?1291    Mr. Topping. Senator, I absolutely can commit to that. And1292I understand that enterprise IT implementations are difficult1293everywhere. It is tough in the private sector, it is tough in1294the public sector. VA is big, but this has been done before and1295everywhere else.1296    Senator Tillis. My guess is it was a failed implementation1297where we said yes, too many times, and we did not document all1298the changes that were used to accommodate what was largely a1299customizable off-the-shelf system that should have had maximum1300compatibility with the Department of Defense. It is the same1301platform. We are whiffing on it, and that is preventing us from1302having that seamless transition of data across the whole of VA,1303to make sure that we have every piece of information we need on1304veterans to give them the best care possible.1305    So once you are confirmed, I would like you to get that on1306your radar, because it is bleeding and we have got to fix it.1307Mr. Baehr, I want to tell you, I noticed little baby James1308cried a minute ago and it reminds me of what I have told a lot1309of people, having two kids and these sort of formal settings,1310and having to take them out really quickly. There is nothing1311more beautiful than the sound of someone else's baby crying.1312    [Laughter.]1313    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1314    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Hassan.13151316                   HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,1317                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE13181319    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senator Tillis.1320That is what my mother used to say to me at five o'clock in the1321morning when it was my baby who was crying and she could roll1322over and go back to sleep.1323    [Laughter.]1324    Senator Hassan. Good morning and thank you all for your1325service. Congratulations on your nominations, and1326congratulations to your family as well, because this is a1327family affair, both your service to your country, and these1328nominations in your future service.1329    Lieutenant Colonel Baehr has already answered this question1330but to you Mr. Brown and to you Mr. Topping, I just want to get1331a straightforward, simple question answered. If directed by the1332President to take action that would break the law, would you1333follow the law or follow the President's directives?1334    Captain Brown. Senator, thanks for the question. I cannot1335imagine a scenario where the President would ask me to do1336anything unlawful, but my oath is to the Constitution.1337    Senator Hassan. Captain Topping.1338    Mr. Topping. Similar answer. I can't imagine the President1339would ask me to break the law, but I will follow the law.1340    Senator Hassan. Both of you, I will just say the fact that1341you say you can't imagine it, is disappointing. It is a lack of1342imagination given the President's record and what he has done1343in his first three months in office. But let me go on now.1344Captain Topping, I wanted to follow up on a question. Let me1345also--Captain Brown and Captain Topping--if the court issues an1346order requiring the Department of Veteran Affairs to take or1347refrain from taking specific actions, will you follow the1348court's order? Captain?1349    Captain Brown. Senator, I will always follow the law,1350including court orders.1351    Senator Hassan. Captain Topping.1352    Mr. Topping. Absolutely the same.1353    Senator Hassan. Now, I want to follow up on a question1354Senator Blumenthal was talking to you about Captain Topping.1355You talked about what you referred to as a politically1356motivated audit. And that you were exonerated and the person1357who charged you with misconduct or wrongdoing was found guilty1358of defamation. And those are compelling facts.1359    But in Senator Blumenthal's, follow up to you, you talked1360about what constituted political motivation, and the way you1361talked about it really concerned me. So, I am about to ask all1362three of you a question about the VA's plan to fire 80,0001363employees, even as we are enrolling more and more veterans.1364    And just for context, I am a former Governor. I have1365overseen reorganizations and layoffs. I understand what it is1366to balance a budget. I understand difficult decisions sometimes1367have to be made. But do you think my concern about the firing1368of 80,000 employees at the VA, as we are expanding services, is1369a good faith policy concern? Or is my growing concern about1370these firings going to be just dismissed by you as political1371because I am in a different political party?1372    Mr. Topping. Senator, I will go first on that. Again, I am1373not at VA and have not been part of the conversations----1374    Senator Hassan. No, this is about whether people of1375different political parties in the United States can have1376legitimate good faith differences of opinion, and whether we1377are going to engage each other in believing in our good faith,1378or whether you are going to dismiss anybody who is a Democrat1379as just being politically motivated?1380    So what is it? Are you going to be able to engage with us1381in good faith policy questions, or are you just going to1382dismiss everybody on the side of the dais or any other1383Democrat, because we are Democrats?1384    Mr. Topping. Senator, I absolutely welcome the political1385debate, the discourse, the difference of opinion.1386    Senator Hassan. These can be policy debates, not even1387political ones. This is the VA. This is a bipartisan Committee.1388    Mr. Topping. Yes, ma'am. And let me give you what my1389approach to this issue would be. Again, bringing a corporate1390perspective on this, it is what I know publicly. What I know1391publicly is what the Secretary has done is to say, we are on a1392GAO high-risk list since 2015, the VA needs reform, and that is1393a bipartisan----1394    Senator Hassan. I am going to stop you here because my time1395is limited, and I want to get to the question of these layoffs.1396But I would like you to reflect on the fact that, when people1397have good faith policy debates in the United States of America,1398it does not mean that all we care about is politics, especially1399when we are talking about veterans. We have veterans on both1400sides of the aisle here. I am the daughter of a World War II1401Veteran, and the last thing on my mind right now is politics.1402And I hope you can take that to heart.1403    Now, I do want to ask you about the plans to layoff or fire140480,000 folks at the VA. The administration has recklessly fired1405VA employees, pausing hiring of the VA, and undermined1406established contracts--all actions that I believe will harm1407veterans care and benefits. Going forward, the Trump1408administration plans to fire 80,000 employees, something that1409the Secretary has publicly acknowledged.1410    In 2022, more veterans became eligible for healthcare and1411benefits under the PACT Act, and I am going to differ a little1412bit with Senator Tillis, we didn't do it because the President1413wanted it, we did it because veterans in this country rightly1414demanded it. It was well past due.1415    So, the VA subsequently hired more employees to support1416these veterans, now President Trump and Elon Musk want to fire1417those employees. So just in a recent hearing, I asked VA1418Assistant Secretary, Engelbaum, if he could guarantee that1419veterans would not be negatively affected by President Trump's1420plan to fire these VA employees. He could not provide me a1421satisfactory answer.1422    So now I will ask the three of you, and I am running a1423little bit over time, so just yes or no answers. Do you support1424the administration's plan to fire nearly one fifth of VA's1425workforce, including many employees who are themselves1426veterans? Captain Brown.1427    Captain Brown. Senator, thank you for that question. And I1428just would like to say that in the spirit of good faith policy1429concerns, that I think that we owe it to the Secretary in good1430faith to hear his full plan, which none of us have heard yet1431and he is putting veterans first, so----1432    Senator Hassan. So, I will take that as you can't guarantee1433it. Lieutenant Colonel.1434    Mr. Baehr. Senator, I think some of these issues are under1435active litigation and going to the Supreme Court now, so it1436would be improper, I believe, for me to comment personally.1437    Senator Hassan. Again, you can't guarantee that it is not1438going to impact veterans' care. Captain Topping.1439    Mr. Topping. Senator, I understand the policy concern and1440the debate and I would approach this by looking at what is the1441process, how is it being done, why, and then what is the1442outcome?1443    Senator Hassan. And I thank you Chair for your indulgence,1444and I will submit the rest of this portion of my question for1445the record. I am just going to say this, that if you want buy-1446in from everybody on this, the Department needs to have1447transparency and needs to indicate how they are going to1448guarantee that veterans care will not be delayed, that1449appointments will not be delayed, and that the processing of1450claims will not be delayed. Thank you Mr. Chair.1451    Chairman Moran. Senator Sullivan.14521453                       HON. DAN SULLIVAN,1454                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA14551456    Senator Sullivan. Thanks Mr. Chairman. Mr. Baehr--I want to1457congratulate all the nominees again. I appreciate your service1458both in the military and wanting to do this. Mr. Baehr, I need1459your commitment to work on this issue that I am sure will anger1460you as much as it has angered me. This is the Camp Lejeune Act,1461where we passed compensation for Marines who served--the Camp1462Lejeune, because of contaminated water for them and their1463families.1464    And I tried really hard and the Biden administration wanted1465us to--that was their advice--to put caps on contingency fees1466so most of the money would go to the Marines, not to trial1467lawyers. And we couldn't get that done. I am not going to1468accuse anybody here, but there is a lot of politics. We talk1469about politics. So, you saw these, all these ads, and we have1470all seen them, by the way, it is in the billions of dollars of1471ads, okay?1472    These law firms saying, hey, sick Marine, you need help, we1473will help you. My team investigates this. Some of these law1474firms, I won't name them, I have been naming a lot publicly.1475They charge these Marines and their families, 60 percent, 651476percent, 70 percent contingency fees. It is disgusting.1477Everybody knows about this; I raise this all the damn time.1478    I couldn't get my amendments through, people blocked them.1479I won't go into the politics, but let's just say there is a lot1480of politics here, okay? Disgusting. I have never seen an issue,148110 years in the United States Senate that called out for more1482justice. You are either enriching trial lawyers and screwing1483the Marines and their families, or you are helping the Marines1484and their families.1485    So, I went to the Attorney General of the United States,1486Merrick Garland. To his credit, he worked with me because I1487made a suggestion; hey, at least we can cap these fees at the1488Federal Torts Claims Act limits--he said, came back to me two1489weeks later--I really appreciate the Attorney General--Senator,1490you are right, we agree with you, 25 percent, which is way too1491high for litigation, 20 percent for filing.1492    He made an announcement saying, law firms in America, if1493you charge more than that, you will be subject to civil or1494criminal penalties. This is Biden's Attorney General. So, here1495is the commitment I need. These law firms are still doing these1496ads, they are still ripping off. I mean, think about it. It is1497like a zero-sum game. We are either getting these--a lot of1498these firms are really, really, really rich, enriching these1499guys more or sick Marines and their families. Which one do you1500think should be getting the money?1501    Mr. Baehr. Thank you, sir. I think the issue of1502representation, making sure that folks have aggressive1503representation, helping them and helping them to get the money1504is important. And the VA has----1505    Senator Sullivan. You are getting ready to lose my vote1506here. That is the wrong answer. The Marines are the ones who1507need money.1508    Mr. Baehr. Absolutely sir. I was going to say that.1509    Senator Sullivan. You and I need to talk because you just,1510boy oh boy, that is the wrong answer----1511    Mr. Baehr. I am sorry sir.1512    Senator Sullivan. Here is what I need, a commitment from1513you on, Attorney General Bondi has already said she is going to1514do this. Secretary of the Navy already--all we want is an1515implementation of what Merrick Garland said he was going to do.1516Can I get your commitment to do that?1517    Mr. Baehr. You have my commitment to look at any1518legislation you support----1519    Senator Sullivan. No, I am talking about what the Attorney1520General of the United States already said is the law. Right?1521This comes under the Federal Tort Claims Act. Okay. Will you1522work with the Attorney General of the United States, the1523current one--not Merrick Garland--the U.S. Secretary of the1524Navy, to make sure that the limits that Merrick Garland put on1525these awards, 25 percent and 20 percent for filing, is going to1526happen?1527    Mr. Baehr. I am happy----1528    Senator Sullivan. The answer to my question is yes.1529    Mr. Baehr. I am happy to look at it, sir. Yes, sir.1530    Senator Sullivan. Well, I just might be a no on that. You1531and I need to meet, seriously Lieutenant Colonel.1532    Mr. Baehr. I will be eager to meet, sir.1533    Senator Sullivan. Mr. Brown. Captain Brown, I have an1534innovative idea I want to work with you on. The VA recently did1535a grant program for Veterans Cemetery Program in Alaska. We1536have more veterans per capita in each state of the country, and1537this was one of the first that we have gotten ever. So, it was1538in the Fairbanks and the interior part of our state, which is1539great. So, I really appreciate that happening.1540    We have a whole bunch of small Alaska Native communities1541throughout the state. Over 230 villages in Alaska are not even1542connected by roads. So, these are small little villages,1543hundreds and hundreds of them in Alaska. Alaska Natives serve1544at higher rates in the military than any other ethnic group in1545the country.1546    So you go to these villages, there is so many veterans,1547they are so patriotic. Can you work with me in this Committee1548on, maybe, I am sure it matters in other rural communities like1549Maine or you know, Arizona, to work with this Committee on1550maybe an idea of like, they don't have to be giant VA1551cemeteries, but maybe just smaller plots of land that can honor1552the service of these native Americans, who serve at very high1553rates in the military, in small villages that usually don't1554have any kind of cemetery at all, honoring the veterans.1555    Captain Brown. Senator, I would love to follow up with you1556to learn more about Alaska's Native needs specifically and1557happy to have that discussion.1558    Senator Sullivan. Great, thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman.1559    Chairman Moran. You are welcome Senator Sullivan, Senator1560King.15611562                    HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,1563                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE15641565    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is not a normal1566confirmation hearing. We are talking about these three1567nominees, but the context is that the VA is going through a1568tremendous amount of what I consider damage. While we are1569playing ``Nearer My God to Thee'' on the deck of the Titanic,1570we have had firings, we have had 2,400 firings so far. One of1571the most offensive things about these firings Mr. Chairman, is1572that apparently most of the letters that the folks got cited1573performance issues, with no basis whatsoever. That is not good1574management. It is not fair to those individuals. And I know it1575has been enormously problematic for those individuals.1576    And then we received the idea that we are going to fire157783,000 people over the next six or eight months. But this1578Committee has had no plan whatsoever. Your testimony, Mr.1579Baehr, I don't know about the plan. Neither do we, and we1580should. We have had no communication that I know of, defining1581what the plan is going to be, how those people are going to be1582chosen, what the impacts will be. And by the way, it is an1583arbitrary number. They said we are going to return the VA to1584the staff that it had in 2019.1585    That is just out of the blue. Why not 2020? Why not 2015?1586It is an arbitrary number. It is not based upon performance or1587need or analysis whatsoever. And in fact, seven laws have been1588passed since 2019. One of which is the PACT Act, which requires1589enormous additional staff in order to administer it properly,1590as Senator Tillis indicated.1591    And then we have the Secretary telling us that this is1592going to produce better service. I don't think that passes the1593straight face test. So, my problem with these nominees is1594nothing to do with their qualifications or their history. In1595fact, Mr. Baehr has impeccable educational qualifications--went1596to same college and law school that I did. But a call not1597answered, is denial of benefits. A veteran who has to wait1598months for an appointment, is a denial of benefits and it can1599be a death sentence.1600    And then there is the issue of the canceled contracts. We1601have had--the Secretary issued a little video proudly saying,1602we have canceled 600 contracts and saved so much money. That1603was about a month ago and we still don't know what the1604contracts are. The Committee doesn't know what the contracts1605are. What are they for? Are they for toilet paper or are they1606for counseling? Are they for the kinds of services that1607veterans need? We don't know that.1608    And so, my belief here is today, and again, it doesn't have1609to do with the qualifications of these three nominees, but we1610ought to stop talking about nominees at this Department until1611the Department start telling us what they are going to do and1612justify its terms of service to the veterans.1613    It is easy to say, we won't disturb the service to the1614veterans. I was at a--we were all at a large hearing with the1615DAV a couple of two or three weeks ago. We had 2 or 300 people1616in the audience, and I read the quote from the Secretary saying1617this won't affect veterans or service to veterans whatsoever.1618And there was a groan throughout the room, they know damn well1619it is going to affect. You cannot fire a fifth of a workforce1620of a major Agency and expect to not have some effect on the1621delivery of services. It just, as I said, it doesn't pass the1622straight face.1623    I understand Mr. Chairman, that our role is to talk about1624our nominees and all those kinds of things, but I think we are1625doing a disservice to the VA to be even talking about nominees.1626    And my final problem, these poor two fellows came to my1627office and I told them when they walked in that I was not going1628to vote for them. And the reason is, I voted for Secretary1629Collins and he made a lot of representations about the VA and1630he was going to be open to the Committee and responsive and1631everything else. And I feel burned by that vote, because the1632first thing I got was 2,400 firings, ostensibly for1633performance, which everybody knows was not true.1634    And then 83,000--by the way, it is 83,000, not 80,000 if1635you go back to 2019--and the lack of communication with this1636Committee about these plans. I am sorry Mr. Chairman; I just1637can't support these nominees. Thank you for your time and I do1638appreciate the service each of you has rendered to the country.1639I completely understand that. And I want to reiterate that my1640comments are not directed at you, but directed at what I think1641is a diminution of service to our veterans they absolutely do1642not deserve. I guess I should mention that, of those 83,000,1643undoubtedly 30,000 would be veterans themselves. Thank you for1644your service. You are fired. That is no way to run the Veterans1645Administration. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.16461647                     HON. MAZIE K. HIRONO,1648                    U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII16491650    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Chairman. Welcome to each of1651you. And yes, these are not normal times. You all are being1652dropped into a situation that has to do with not only the1653Veterans Administration, but just about every other1654administration agency in government. So what is happening to1655every department is mass firings not based on performance or1656anything else for that matter.1657    Let me just start with the two questions I ask of every1658nominee for any of the committees on which I sit in, and these1659questions have to do with some level of ascertaining the1660fitness of all of you to serve. And I will start with Captain1661Brown and we will go right down the line. Since you became a1662legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual1663favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or1664assault of a sexual nature?1665    Captain Brown. No, Senator.1666    Mr. Baehr. No, Senator.1667    Mr. Topping. No, Senator.1668    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered1669into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?1670    Captain Brown. No, Senator.1671    Mr. Baehr. No, Senator.1672    Captain Topping [No response.]1673    Senator Hirono. You have been asked a lot about the impact1674of these staffing cuts and it is astounding to know that not1675only have 2,400 employees of VA, including how many veterans,1676but another 80,000 to come. Do any of you know what the plans1677are on firing 83,000 more people at the VA? Have any of you1678been apprised on any plans? And I would say probably Mr.1679Topping, you should know about what you are going to be facing.1680Would you like to make a comment? Do you know anything about1681how the VA is going to fire 83,000 more people?1682    Mr. Topping. Senator, again, I am not at VA and I have not1683been part of these conversations.1684    Senator Hirono. Is your mic on?1685    Mr. Topping. Yes, ma'am. I will come closer. I have not1686been at VA, I have not been part of these conversations. What I1687know is from what I know that is publicly available, is that1688the Secretary has started with a baseline and it is the 20151689398,000 employees is a baseline. He wants to pull the data, he1690wants to look at what the requirements are, he wants leadership1691input, and then he is going to make determinations about how to1692most efficiently and effectively structure VA, such that it1693does not negatively impact and perhaps enhances the care and1694benefits available to veterans.1695    Senator Hirono. First of all, there is a way that you are1696supposed to go about riffing and firing and I suppose this is a1697question for Mr. Baehr?1698    Mr. Baehr. Yes, ma'am. Yes.1699    Senator Hirono. So, you are going to be the General Counsel1700for the VA. And would you think that firing 1400 people to1701start--2,400 without any legal basis just to say, oh, they are1702being let go because of performance, which is not, there is no1703evidence of that, and then another 80,000. As the person that1704would be the general counsel, how would you advise the VA to go1705about firing 83,000 people?1706    Mr. Baehr. If I am confirmed, I would advise the Secretary1707under the requirements of Title V and Title 38, advise them of1708the best legal counsel I can. Those particular issues are1709before the courts presently and headed to the Supreme Court.1710And I can't personally----1711    Senator Hirono. Well, you are supposed to have a plan,1712write a riff plan before you just start firing people1713wholesale. Is that what you would--in fact, that is what the1714courts are demanding. Not only have the courts told all of the1715administration agencies, you have to rehire everybody, many of1716them are being rehired and placed on administrative leave. So,1717it's a mess. It's chaos.1718    And what is happening is tremendous fear, not just in VA.1719And I don't know how you could fire close to 90,000 or so1720people and at a time when there are even more veterans needing1721VA services. How all of that is even supposed to measure, make1722sense? It does not. So, for Mr. Topping, you are going to be1723the CFO, Chief Financial Officer. Does it make a lot of sense1724that, first of all, you fire all these people and then you are1725told by the courts you have to rehire them. And then they are1726rehired and put on admin leave. Does it make sense that we are1727having to pay people to not be doing their jobs?1728    Mr. Topping. Senator, I am not at the VA. We will comply1729with the law and always----1730    Senator Hirono. You know what, all of you say that--comply1731with the law, which is the law as interpreted by President1732Trump, because he thought it was okay to fire thousands of1733Federal employees leading to court lawsuits, leading to1734restraining orders, leading to courts telling you all you have1735to rehire everybody.1736    One more question for you, Mr. Topping, think about it.1737There was a letter that went to a lot of people, the ``fork in1738the road'' letter, and I am told that that letter led to a1739number of people from the VA who are taking that early1740retirement, whatever you want to call it. And then the council1741at the VA said in following up on the people who took this1742offer, which I question the legality of, now the council has1743sent a letter to all people on the VA who signed onto this,1744that the VA is going to be responsible for paying them to not1745work until September. Does that make a lot of sense to you?1746Like who told the council to obligate the VA to pay people for1747not doing anything until September? Does that make sense to1748you?1749    Mr. Topping. If confirmed to CFO, I will ensure that VA1750meets its financial commitments, including other court orders1751and you have got my commitment to that.1752    Senator Hirono. So, you think it is okay that the VA has1753obligated itself to pay all these people, who I don't even know1754how many people in the VA took the ``fork in the road'' so1755called offer--it is okay to pay them to sit there doing nothing1756until September? That is what you are saying meaning VA's1757obligation?1758    Mr. Topping. As the CFO, I will ensure that the VA is1759adequately funded and financed to meet its mission and if that1760is a requirement, we will meet it.1761    Senator Hirono. Mr. Baehr. Just if I can--do you think that1762that was okay for the legal counsel at VA to send all these1763letters to the people who took the fork in the road offer that1764obligates the VA to pay up?1765    Mr. Baehr. I can't comment on anything that is in active1766litigation Senator.1767    Senator Hirono. Makes little sense to me. Thank you, Mr.1768Chairman.1769    Chairman Moran. Before we move on, Mr. Topping, do you want1770to answer verbally the questions that Senator Hirono asked you,1771that I think the other two witnesses answered but you did not1772because you didn't have the moment to do it?1773    Mr. Topping. And Senator, no.1774    Chairman Moran. The answer to your question about any1775proceedings in regard to sexual assault, et cetera. He was1776ready to answer you but it didn't come out of his mouth.1777    Mr. Topping. Thank you, Senator.1778    Chairman Moran. I want Senator Hirono and the rest of us to1779know that, but I also wouldn't want a record in your file that1780left that question unanswered.1781    Mr. Topping. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir.1782    Chairman Moran. Senator Gallego.17831784                      HON. RUBEN GALLEGO,1785                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA17861787    Senator Gallego. Mr. Chairman, it bears repeating we are1788not dealing in normal times. And you know, to the chagrin of1789many of my people in my party, I have been very supportive of a1790lot of the President's nominees. I think only one other Senator1791has actually voted for more Republican nominees. And I did it1792because in the spirit of bipartisanship, with the idea that,1793you know, we have to make sure that we are working together,1794trying to send a message to the American public.1795    And I even thought the same thing when I voted for1796Administrator Collins and we served together in the House of1797Representatives. And I still even held out hope when I first1798heard the rumors of the cuts of 83,000. Even talking to some of1799the guys that I served with, you know, when they were talking1800to me about this, I told them, well, that is just insane, no1801one would ever do that.1802    Because, I have been here in Congress and even using the VA1803starting when I got back from Iraq 2006. And the only thing I1804remember is that we always needed more people. And the Phoenix1805VA in particular where I belong has always needed more people.1806We have had horrible stories at that VA of people dying without1807treatment, of house administrators, you know, faking lists to1808make sure it looks like they are actually moving through and1809you know, on and on, stories and stories.1810    And then, this weekend I was told, and it was proven to be1811true, that the Phoenix VA has to get rid of 15 percent of its1812staff by June. And I am not asking you guys any questions. It1813is not fair to put this on you. I am not going to ask you1814questions and I don't think it is fair for me to make you1815comment on something you are not responsible for. This is not1816at all directed at you, it is more to the general public here.1817    But the idea that you are going to be able to cut 151818percent from the Phoenix VA by June, and it is not going to1819affect services, it is, not just laughable, its sinful. We have1820so many men and women right now that are returning to this1821country and are now seeking services. Some of them, as soon as1822they get here, some of them later in life.1823    I finally got back in, you know, in 2016. We have men and1824women that we encouraged to go and sign up for the Burn Pit1825Registry, that, you know, to take advantage of the PACT Act,1826that we told them, come to the VA. And now they are going to1827come, they are going to find that someone is not going to be1828answering their phone calls. They are going to have later1829meetings, are not going to be able to have some of the claims1830that they need disputed fast enough.1831    I have heard of veterans now that have to do their PTSD1832therapy in open air cubicles. For us that have PTSD, we know1833how sensitive it is to be talking about what you went through,1834what you are going through, and when you have to expose your1835vulnerabilities. And now we have to do this open air because1836again, we are having these cuts, these arbitrary cuts. And, you1837know, I am faced as a new Senator, you know, what can I do?1838Well, the first thing I try to do is, I try to vote for a guy1839that I thought was going to be logical and protect veterans,1840and he did not.1841    And so now, you know, the only thing I have power do is to1842hold all the nominations for any veterans moving forward. Any1843VA appointees moving forward, because 83,000 VA employees1844getting cut means 83,000 opportunities that we are going to1845miss probably helping some of these veterans.1846    And I can't live with that on my conscience, knowing that1847there are men and women that are probably not going to get1848their phone calls answered when they are at a Veteran Crisis1849Hotline. Or they are going to have to wait a little longer to1850get that surgery, or they are not going to be able to feel1851comfortable going to the VA.1852    And, you know, what is the message that we are sending to1853all the future employees? Before this year, we had been telling1854everybody we need to keep expanding and hiring more people to1855meet the demand. And now we are firing a lot of these men and1856women. And we are not even being gentle about it. We are1857saying, you are out, here is your last paycheck, good luck,1858here is your health insurance, you are off your health1859insurance, you are done.1860    And when we go to recruit new men and women to come and1861work for the VA, when they could have competitive salaries1862somewhere else, how are we going to get them back? How can we1863tell that therapist that could probably go into private1864practice and make a lot more money, come and work for us, but1865at any point, we could arbitrarily kick you out. And by the1866way, to get around our laws, our employment laws, we are going1867to say that you actually performed poorly and well, good luck1868with that and who knows if that is going to affect you1869financially in the future.1870    How are we going to recruit the doctors, you know, the1871specialists to come work for us if at any point they are not1872even going to have support staff to do this? So, I can't vote1873for any nominee, and not only can I not vote for any more1874nominees, I need to do everything I can to hold as many1875nominees as possible until we stop this. Until I can prove to1876the veterans that I served with, the veterans that I represent1877now in Arizona, all over the country, that this is not going to1878hurt them. This is not going to affect them because I can't1879prove that. And its whatever power I have to protect veterans;1880I am going to do that.1881    And I hope in the end we can all find ourselves in a better1882situation where we can firmly say that our veterans are being1883taken care of. We vote you all in to help them out. But at that1884point, that one doesn't exist.1885    So, Mr. Chairman, my Ranking Member and the nominees, I1886apologize, but I am still going to stick with my hold on all1887the nominees until I know for a fact that our veterans are1888going to be at least held harmless through these cuts. Thank1889you, Mr. Chair, I yield.1890    Chairman Moran. We probably--my anticipation is the1891Committee will have a markup executive session in the next week1892before the end of the April recess to consider these three1893nominees. But knowing, assuming that they are a passed or if1894they are approved by the Committee, we understand there is a1895hold until that is lifted.1896    I am not intending to have a second round of questions.1897Senator Blumenthal has something he wants to ask or cleanup or1898clear up.1899    Senator Blumenthal. Yes, first of all, as I mentioned1900earlier, I have joined Senator Gallego's hold and I appreciate1901the Chairman adopting the procedure that he has outlined. Let1902me ask just a couple more questions of the nominees.1903    First of all, Mr. Brown, as you may know, the VA Secretary1904has canceled apparently 875 VA contracts, many of them dealing1905with service-disabled veteran-owned small businesses. There are1906243 that would be affected and an additional 254 veteran-owned1907small business vendors. You led a service-disabled veteran-1908owned small business yourself that worked with the VA. I wonder1909if you give us your views on these cancellations of contracts1910and how they will impact those small businesses?1911    Captain Brown. Thank you. Senator, as a former owner of1912SDVOSB, I was proud to be able to provide those critical1913services to the VA. What I can tell you sitting here before you1914today is, I don't know what those companies and what those1915services or goods that they deliver are. And so without that1916knowledge, I can't tell you exactly what impact it would have1917on those businesses.1918    Senator Blumenthal. Will you commit to reviewing them?1919    Captain Brown. Senator, I am happy to review them.1920    Senator Blumenthal. And will you report back to the1921Committee on what you find?1922    Captain Brown. Yes, Senator.1923    Senator Blumenthal. Let me ask you also, a number of1924veterans cemeteries across the country, including the State1925Veteran Cemetery in Middletown, Connecticut, essentially are1926running out of space in the coming years. I understand that the1927State of Connecticut has not been able to secure additional1928property that would be needed for a VA grant award.1929    I would like your commitment that you will work with me and1930my staff to ensure that the Connecticut State Veterans Cemetery1931in Middletown has options to expand.1932    Captain Brown. Senator, I am happy to have those1933discussions with you. But I know that there will probably be1934some local jurisdiction issues that are outside of my control.1935But again, the mission of the NCA is to ensure that all1936veterans have access to these honors, and where we have a need1937for expansion, that is part of what, if I am confirmed, I will1938have oversight on, and I look forward to working with you on1939that.1940    Senator Blumenthal. In Connecticut and elsewhere, local1941issues of land use, maybe beyond your direct control, but you1942could have a substantial influence insofar as grants and other1943action by the VA are involved. So, I would like your commitment1944that in Connecticut and elsewhere, you will use your authority1945and influence to provide the necessary land for expansion.1946    Captain Brown. Senator, look, again, the mission is very1947important to me as someone who lost soldiers, my own brother.1948And so, I will be committed to this mission. My first request1949of use of influence, if confirmed, is to ask this body to1950ensure that NCA is properly funded for expansion of these1951cemeteries.1952    From previous testimony from General Quinn, I understand1953that there is quite a backlog beyond Connecticut where there is1954a lot of necessity for expansion or at least request for1955expansion. And I hope that the Congress will recognize the1956importance of the sacred mission and will appropriate that1957accordingly.1958    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Baehr, as you know, last week,1959President Trump issued an Executive order ending collective1960bargaining at the VA, which would strip 80 percent of all VA1961employees, over 300,000 workers of important labor protection1962and due process rights. The Executive order appears likely to1963violate statutes and the Constitution. Have you an opinion on1964the legality of that Executive order?1965    Mr. Baehr. Senator, as I understand that Executive order is1966before the court in Texas, as to whether that can occur or not.1967And just to clarify, you know, obviously I didn't get a chance1968to finish with Senator Sullivan. My focus is always on the1969veteran, it is always on the Marines, and certainly I focus on1970them first and then that was the answer I sought to give, which1971is that veterans will always be first. And so, our efforts at1972VA will always be toward that. I would never choose lawyers or1973any other group of people over our veterans.1974    Senator Blumenthal. I would like you to give me a written1975response on that question of the legality of that Executive1976order. Will you do it?1977    Mr. Baehr. Well, respectfully sir. I don't think it is1978proper for me to opine on the legality of an order that is1979before the court right now.1980    Senator Blumenthal. Well, you could articulate a position1981either justifying or challenging the legality of that Executive1982order. You are going to be representing the VA. You should have1983a view on it.1984    Mr. Baehr. It confirmed, if blessed to be confirmed,1985because I will be representing the Department, I think it would1986be improper for me to provide a personal opinion on active1987litigation matters.1988    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Topping, is there anything more1989that you would like to add to the responses that you have1990provided so far on your tenure as CEO of Cardinal Innovations1991Health Care Solutions?1992    Mr. Topping. Senator, I think my record speaks for itself1993and I am happy to answer any questions you may have.1994    Senator Blumenthal. Did you mention that there is1995litigation?1996    Mr. Topping. There was substantial litigation.1997    Senator Blumenthal. Has it been concluded?1998    Mr. Topping. All the litigation filed against my company1999and I has been dismissed.2000    Senator Blumenthal. Is there any other litigation that is2001still pending?2002    Mr. Topping. I have a defense litigation that I filed that2003is still pending.2004    Senator Blumenthal. And what is the status of that2005litigation?2006    Mr. Topping. I wanted the trial court. I wanted the Court2007of Appeals; it was remanded by the Supreme Court. I wanted the2008trial court last fall, and it is currently back in the Court of2009Appeals and I am confident I will prevail.2010    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thanks Mr. Chairman.2011    Chairman Moran. No good deed goes unpunished. Senator2012Banks.20132014                        HON. JIM BANKS,2015                   U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA20162017    Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Brown,2018congratulations on your nomination to lead the National2019Cemetery Administration. You are an American hero and an2020inspiration to millions of veterans like myself and non-2021veterans alike. The NCA does great work, is a model of an2022efficient Federal agency.2023    The NCA staff also have an excellent relationship with the2024Indiana Department of Veterans Affairs and I look forward to2025carrying on that relationship with you at the helm. I2026wholeheartedly support your nomination. I know you will uphold2027NCA's exemplary reputation.2028    Mr. Brown, there are four national cemeteries in my State2029in Indiana. The Woodlawn Cemetery in Terre Haute has been full2030for years. The columbarium at the Crown Hill Cemetery in2031Indianapolis and the New Albany National Cemetery accept2032cremations, but only the Marion National Cemetery is still open2033for burials. If confirmed, will you work with me to explore2034another burial option in Indiana?2035    Captain Brown. Yes, Senator.2036    Senator Banks. That is a great answer. Thank you for that.2037Mr. Brown, the New Albany National Cemetery and the two2038national cemeteries in Louisville, Kentucky are all closed to2039new burials. Do you think it could make sense to develop a new2040location serving southern Indiana and the Louisville area?2041    Captain Brown. Senator with respect, I don't know the exact2042geography of Indiana, but I can tell you that there are many2043requests as I can tell from public testimony in the past, for2044expansion, as I believe from approximately a year ago,2045testimony by Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs, Quinn, that2046there is a backlog of roughly 60 requests for expansion across2047the country.2048    And the role of NCA is to try and prioritize where there2049are the funds to do that. I would love to see a situation where2050all of that backlog can be can be worked through. That we don't2051have veterans or representatives concerned about whether or not2052they are going to have honorable and proper burials within a2053close radius of their home. But that is something I need to2054work with Congress on.2055    Senator Banks. I look forward to working with you on that.2056I have said many times before that we inspire the next2057generation to serve when we show respect for the previous2058generation. So, I look forward to working with you to clear2059that backlog.2060    Mr. Brown, I introduced the Ensuring Veterans' Final2061Resting Place Act to make sure that veterans retain the right2062to be buried in VA's National Cemeteries, even if they receive2063a memorial urn or a plaque. Veterans are losing this right as2064the unintended consequence of an earlier law. If confirmed,2065will you work with me on that legislation to solve this problem2066before more veterans are impacted?2067    Captain Brown. Senator, I would love to learn more about2068that legislation and happy to have that discussion.2069    Senator Banks. The VA testified already in support of2070Representative Rudy Yakym's--also from Indiana--House version2071of the bill last week, with the condition that if it passes,2072should be subject to the availability of appropriations. It2073would cost about $20 million annually. That is a significant2074amount of money, but I think it is a worthy priority, again2075that we make sure that we honor our Nation's heroes.2076    Will you work with me to redirect some of the savings for2077eliminating waste and inefficiency through the VA to pay for2078that important priority?2079    Captain Brown. Senator, I don't know the details of this2080legislation. On the top view of it, it sounds like it is a2081noble mission, but I would like to learn more about it.2082    Senator Banks. Got it. And we look forward to educating you2083more on the bill and why that is an important priority. Mr.2084Brown, you have seen many of the inner workings of the VA as a2085contractor supporting emergency preparedness. What did you2086observe about the Department's operational problems? And how2087will you approach solving them?2088    Captain Brown. That is a good question, Senator. You know,2089as someone who was on the contract side of that, I didn't have2090a view into the VA's decision-making. But I can tell you that I2091am excited for the leadership with Secretary Collins. His2092commitment to the veteran first, veteran care. And as a veteran2093who receives care and has for the last 13 years, my wife also2094receives care, in fact, this morning, she is at the VA for an2095appointment. We are very interested as recipients of VA care as2096well that the VA has this leadership that is focused on the2097mission.2098    Senator Banks. Again, I have already praised the NCA, it is2099a well-run organization within the VA. From what you have2100learned so far, what have we learned from the best practices at2101the NCA that we can implement in other VA offices?2102    Captain Brown. NCA does a fantastic job of customer2103service. So, a focus on the veteran customer, ensuring that2104last honor is received well. Again, this is something I hear2105from the Secretary that is a focus of his more broadly across2106the entire department. And I look forward to, if confirmed,2107working with NCA to continue that legacy and expect to see that2108legacy spread over to the rest of the VA.2109    Senator Banks. Thank you. My time has expired.2110    Chairman Moran. Senator Slotkin.21112112                      HON. ELISSA SLOTKIN,2113                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MICHIGAN21142115    Senator Slotkin. Apologies for being late, just got off a2116plane. Congratulations on all your respective nominations and2117for some of the conversations we have had in my office. Mr.2118Brown, as the Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs, you oversee2119really important places. In Michigan, in particular, we have a2120big and growing veteran cemetery.2121    In Holly, Michigan, where I live in my farm town, we just2122got an extension and it is just becoming quickly one of the2123biggest cemeteries in the entire country, which we are very2124proud of how we allow people to be buried with respect in the2125final phase of their life for them and their family. What I am2126concerned about is, there is the Veteran Cemetery Grants2127Program. So, a big way that our cemeteries get money to do the2128development and the work that they need.2129    And Michigan is one of the few states that doesn't have a2130VA grant funded state veteran cemetery. We are trying to change2131that. We basically--I just was hoping that we can work together2132on expanding that program to all of the states, is number one.2133But number two, I am concerned that these are the types of2134programs that are being looked at right now for cuts, right?2135They are kind of below the radar. It is not veteran care,2136hospital care, directly in a medical setting, and I am2137concerned that programs for cemeteries are going to be cut.2138    So how are you going to address this? Since it seems like2139DOGE is coming for every agency, every department, they are2140looking through every couch cushion, how do you respond to cuts2141to programs that you would oversee?2142    Captain Brown. Thank you Senator for the question. And I2143agree. This is a duty that we owe to our veterans, and NCA2144fortunately, has a terrific history of fulfilling this duty2145with honor and distinction. And if confirmed, I look forward to2146joining such an illustrious organization.2147    With that being said, I think that, you know, the work that2148I would do within VA, but also with Congress, to ensure that2149there are the funds available for this. I have mentioned before2150that in looking at previous testimony, just over a year ago,2151General Quinn sat here and said that there is approximately 602152requests for expansions across the country at any given time,2153with many of those being five years old and waiting. And so,2154one of the ways that we can ensure that these sorts of2155expansion projects are able to be fulfilled, is that Congress2156appropriate for money.2157    Senator Slotkin. Well, first to be clear, just2158constitutionally the President has to ask for it. So, we will2159look forward to seeing those line items in your budget, in2160President Trump's budget that he is about to present. He will2161have every opportunity, as every President does, to present a2162budget, and I will be looking to see if he is actually fully2163funding the veterans' programs.2164    What we are seeing right now, while we just had Secretary2165Collins in my state this week, was, you know, kind of tap2166dancing on threats to cut 70 to 80,000 people from the VA. We2167have seen cuts already to the VA that are affecting things like2168answering phones and processing claims.2169    I had a veteran's roundtable two weeks ago when we were2170home, and these are not Democrats, just to be clear. Like this2171was a nonpartisan event. And they are like, look I understand2172that we are not cutting the hospitals, but if you are cutting2173the person who does the approval of their claim and they have2174to wait two years before they can schedule an appointment for2175something, it is cutting access to care. It isn't just the2176hospitals.2177    So, I am looking forward to the President's budget. We are2178going to go into the details and so should every VSO and every2179veteran organization. The President has the opportunity to ask2180for that money. It can't be that Congress just decides. We have2181to see where the President lies on this. So, we will see.2182    Mr. Topping on general counsel matters, do you believe an2183impoundment; do you believe that if this body appropriates2184money, Congress appropriates money as Mr. Brown is saying, that2185lawyers and people at OMB can decide simply not to spend it on2186the things that this Committee and this Chairman chooses?2187    Mr. Topping. Senator, I am aware that that is both a2188political and legal issue. I am aware that there is litigation2189around that. If confirmed as the CFO, I will appropriate the2190funding as directed by the Congress to ensure the agency2191manages it efficiently.2192    Senator Slotkin. I hope so. I mean, I hope on veterans'2193issues that should be a no brainer, that if we appropriate it2194under this Chairman and it is his stamp of approval that it2195gets spent on the things that we appropriated it for.2196Otherwise, what are we doing here? I mean, in Congress, what2197are we doing? So, in any case, looking forward to seeing all of2198you guys in office and thank you for your work.2199    Chairman Moran. Senator Slotkin, thank you. I want to ask2200one more question. Let me make sure--Senator Boozman.22012202                       HON. JOHN BOOZMAN,2203                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS22042205    Senator Boozman. I also apologize for being late. I had to2206be in another hearing, helping with this. So, I don't have any2207questions. I had the opportunity to visit with the panel at2208length in my office and we had a great discussion.2209    And I just want to thank all of you for your willingness to2210serve, you are outstanding individuals. You are in a situation2211where you could do very well in the private sector, you have2212chosen to be willing to serve at the VA and I think it is an2213act of service. So, we appreciate that and look forward to2214helping in way we can to take care of our veterans, that is2215what it is all about, and that is what this Committee is all2216about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member.2217    Chairman Moran. Senator Boozman chairs the MILCON VA2218Appropriation Subcommittee. So, you need to pay special2219attention to him and develop a close working relationship.2220    Let me ask one final question and then we will conclude the2221hearing. Last week, the VA Inspector General issued a report2222detailing the circumstances surrounding a multiple billion-2223dollar shortfall at Veterans Health Administration's fiscal2224year 2025 budget.2225    The IG found that the VA knew well before the fiscal year2226of 2025 request was complete, that the VHA needed more money,2227yet the OMB and VA leaders chose not to seek a funding increase2228until after Congressional Appropriations Committee had done2229their work, and set the fiscal year 25 funding levels across2230the government. We expected that, turned out to be true,2231according to the Inspector General and its a poor way of doing2232business.2233    And I want you, Mr. Topping to make any comments that you2234will, about how that wouldn't happen under the administration.2235In other words, the VA determined they needed more money,2236failed to tell Congress, let us reach our agreement on funding2237levels across 12 appropriation bills, knowing that they had a2238shortfall.2239    And only after we completed our appropriations top line2240numbers, were we then informed of the problem. We responded,2241incidentally, provided more money, only to be told by the VA2242that they asked for too much money and they didn't need that2243much. Mr. Topping, how would you avoid that?2244    Mr. Topping. Senator, thank you for the easiest question of2245the day. I read the OIG reports. I spent the last six years in2246the private sector working for former VA Secretary Tony2247Principi, and I can only imagine if I had said to Secretary2248Principi that, you know, my numbers are 12-6-3-0. The Secretary2249would have told me the numbers need to be right; the numbers2250need to be right, and we will get them right.2251    There are different cost drivers between VBA and VHA, it is2252eligibility and claims volume. VBA, it is tougher on VHA. You2253have med management utilization, community care claims lag.2254Having said that, I think the priorities that I would bring as2255CFO, in financial reporting, forecasting capabilities and the2256right tools plus the right structure that drives2257accountability. Senator, if confirmed as CFO, we are going to2258get the numbers right.2259    Chairman Moran. Thank you. That would be an improvement. I2260am going to conclude the hearing, although this gives me the2261opportunity to once again, suggest that having an Inspector2262General back at the Department of Veterans Affairs would be2263very valuable and useful.2264    It is the Inspector General who provided us with this2265information and other valuable information, and as we, as a2266Committee try to weed out any inefficiencies and fraud or2267waste, it is the Inspector General who is one of our greatest2268allies. So, it would be great for an Inspector General to be2269back in his or her position at the Department of Veteran2270Affairs.2271    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Chairman.2272    Chairman Moran. Yes, Senator Blumenthal.2273    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that I2274strongly join in that view and my hope is that Inspector2275General Mike Missal, who was my guest, state of the union as a2276matter of fact, and is well known to Members of this Committee2277for his excellent work as Inspector General, would be an2278appropriate person to return to that role. Thank you.2279    Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. There are no2280other questions. I want to thank our Committee members for2281their presence and interest in visiting with our witnesses2282today. I thank our witnesses for their testimony, for their2283past service, and for their willingness to serve other veterans2284in the capacity for which they have been nominated.2285    Any Member of this Committee would like to send questions2286for the record to one of the nominees should do so as soon as2287possible, and no later than noon tomorrow. We appreciate the2288timely response that you then can provide as we the Committee2289intends to take up these nominations in Committee before the2290beginning of the April recess. With that, the hearing is2291adjourned. Thank you very much.2292    [Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]22932294                            A P P E N D I X22952296                        Nomination Material for22972298                          CAPTAIN SAMUEL BROWN22992300   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23012302                        Nomination Material for23032304                              JAMES BAEHR23052306    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23072308                        Nomination Material for23092310                            RICHARD TOPPING23112312[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23132314                                  [all]